| 00:01.29 | *** join/#riftuidev seebs (~seebs@home.seebs.net) |
| 00:01.29 | *** mode/#riftuidev [+o seebs] by ChanServ |
| 00:24.09 | Ivnedar | should pull seebs into ft/ee when you do it noshei! |
| 00:24.43 | Ivnedar | gear up in one run :P |
| 00:28.49 | Ivnedar | support is good when the group running it is at the bottom end of the gear/experience spectrum |
| 00:29.15 | Ivnedar | since 5 man content and open world raids are primarily pug focussed, that support requirement is pretty much gone |
| 00:29.31 | Ivnedar | trash don't tend to have the "must cc this or die" type mechanics |
| 00:29.49 | Ivnedar | single healer is normally plenty with the gear level people are going in with |
| 00:30.09 | Ivnedar | and the dps person instead of support person makes steamrolling content even quicker |
| 00:55.30 | seebs | This is so strange. |
| 00:55.43 | seebs | Something Has Happened, so that every so often when I log in one of my bars has moved. |
| 00:56.02 | seebs | It's positioned about 30-40px above the bottom of the screen normally, and periodically it resets to all the way down, and I can't figure out why. |
| 00:56.46 | Ivnedar | you only have 1 frame that moves randomly? luxury! :P |
| 00:57.00 | seebs | heh |
| 00:57.12 | seebs | At least it's been a while since I had the "three of my bags move up one pixel every other time I open them" thing. |
| 00:57.28 | seebs | Problem is, the bar in question is my primary ability bar, and where it moves to is behind another bar. |
| 00:57.41 | seebs | I am trying an experiment with anchoring it to that bar instead. I'd been trying to position it a few px lower. |
| 00:58.07 | Ivnedar | I think my issue may be due to anchoring frames to frames that appear and disappear |
| 00:58.34 | seebs | Yes, that's certainly *an* issue. But this one was specifically *not* anchored when it was acting up, and the frames in question are just more ability bars. |
| 00:59.25 | seebs | BTW, I just got a chance to test, and for me, "hide-all-players" does indeed help frame rate a lot. |
| 00:59.39 | Ivnedar | would be nice if we could set position on native frames from an addon |
| 00:59.47 | Ivnedar | interesting |
| 00:59.58 | Ivnedar | do you have hide other player spell effects enabled? |
| 01:00.22 | seebs | I don't think so. |
| 01:00.23 | seebs | Hmm. |
| 01:00.30 | seebs | This is odd. |
| 01:00.41 | seebs | Exactly *one* of my bars is showing the buttons that haven't got powers. |
| 01:06.26 | seebs | I am wondering if the huge frame rate hit I've taken today reflects snowstorms or something else. |
| 01:10.51 | seebs | Oooh, Trion's hiring! |
| 01:11.15 | seebs | If I wanted to move and get paid less for longer hours in a field I have no relevant experience in, this would be a great fit. :P |
| 01:11.58 | seebs | Somehow, I'm guessing Trion does not have a compelling need for people who don't actually bother to remember enough C++ to use it. :P |
| 01:21.43 | Ivnedar | can we telecommute? |
| 01:22.36 | Ivnedar | ooh, zorba could give us homework assignments that happen to be real code problems they need sorted, and everyone submits their solution and the best one/combo is used! |
| 01:23.54 | seebs | If they did telecommuting, I would at least consider trying for it, although I obviously have no useful qualifications. |
| 01:24.24 | Ivnedar | my quals are in secure distributed systems, so dunno how that would fit into game coding |
| 01:24.32 | Ivnedar | client<->server bits maybe |
| 01:25.07 | seebs | I mostly do arcana. That said, I'm actually useful to nearly any dev environment I've seen, not because of anything specific I know, but because I am a champion debugger and unstuck-er. |
| 01:25.45 | seebs | By all accounts, very good corporate culture, though. |
| 01:26.45 | Ivnedar | I end up being an integrator mostly at work, two unrelated systems that neither vendor wants to talk to the other, making glue to get them working |
| 01:27.10 | Ivnedar | well, that's where I have the most fun anyway :) |
| 01:44.56 | Noshei | my official title is "that guy that attends meetings all day, just cause" |
| 01:45.23 | Imhothar | meetings are awesome! |
| 01:45.29 | Imhothar | makes everyone feel special |
| 01:45.43 | Ivnedar | I hates meetings :( |
| 01:45.44 | Noshei | not when your entire week is meetings |
| 01:45.56 | Noshei | 40 hours of meetings |
| 01:46.03 | Ivnedar | There's a guy at work who got "Is not required to attend any meeting" in his contract |
| 01:46.06 | Ivnedar | so jealous |
| 01:46.16 | Noshei | though fortunately they are all on the phone, so I can play rift and attend the meeting, when I work from home |
| 01:53.32 | Imhothar | we keep all our meetings < 30 minutes except for sprint review/planning once a month which take substantially longer |
| 01:53.51 | Imhothar | but then, we barely have any meetings at all |
| 01:54.16 | Ivnedar | really hate the weeks that have back to back (and overlapping meetings) all week, with the second half of the week being catch up meetings to see how everyone went with work assigned in the first half of the week |
| 01:54.39 | Imhothar | once a month someone holds a 20m presentation about their work after lunch so people know what;s happening |
| 01:56.08 | Ivnedar | Thankfully, we moved to using exchange for calendaring, and since it's so completely useless, no one really knows when meetings are on or who's required any more |
| 01:56.12 | Ivnedar | so we're going to less of them |
| 01:56.49 | Imhothar | guess a 15 man startup consisting of computer scientists only works differently than the average company |
| 01:57.17 | Ivnedar | At one point, we had more project managers than regular staff |
| 01:57.30 | Imhothar | managers are totally overrated |
| 01:57.59 | Imhothar | I have ye to meet a "manager" who deserves a higher salary than the guys doing the coding |
| 02:06.15 | Ivnedar | so, I was in the pbb chronicle for ~5s before I died |
| 02:06.29 | Ivnedar | can mount in the instance, tapped forward, hit a pebble, got catapaulted off the platforms :P |
| 02:06.44 | Noshei | nice |
| 02:38.12 | seebs | One of the reasons I'm not looking for work is that my immediate manager is awesome. |
| 02:43.02 | Amadeus- | ( Ivnedar ) yeah, ~30 minutes after daily reset, no one can log in |
| 02:43.02 | Amadeus- | ( Ivnedar ) ~60 minutes after weekly reset |
| 02:43.13 | Amadeus- | ^ Ivnedar, ZorbaBeta said he never heard of this until I mentioned it. |
| 02:46.13 | Ivnedar | not surprised, not really his area |
| 02:48.41 | Amadeus- | well, I guess I just assumed they might talk to each other at some point ..lol |
| 02:49.03 | Amadeus- | especially since it appears to be difficult to fix ..you'd think folks might ask for assistance/advice/suggestions, etc. |
| 02:50.03 | Imhothar | if it's something they consider needs fixing |
| 02:50.05 | Amadeus- | I thought ZorbaBeta worked on server stuff pretty often, and seems to be a good coder, so is a resource I would surely use :) |
| 02:50.35 | Amadeus- | well ...it needs to be fixed ...there are a lot of folks that log on at that time to do weeklies ....I'm sure a lot are patrons. |
| 02:50.42 | Amadeus- | I know that I stay up late on Tuesday night specifically for it. |
| 02:51.32 | Ivnedar | addon api, client performance, rendering pipelines etc |
| 02:51.36 | Ivnedar | (afaik) |
| 02:51.38 | Imhothar | still doesn't meen it has to be a problem for them |
| 02:52.21 | seebs | I notice a thing on the forums, which is that most of the time, if someone thinks support roles are stupid and shouldn't be a thing, they also seem to think that "support" means "backup heals". |
| 02:52.39 | Amadeus- | that's an odd attitude if it were true ....when my software has anything broken about it, I feel obliged to fix it ..lol |
| 02:53.08 | Imhothar | define "broken" |
| 02:57.15 | seebs | Well, there's plenty of stuff that needs attention, people pick their battles. Usually I focus on the things that are in my areas of expertise. |
| 03:05.55 | seebs | I should spend some time figuring out how to mess with the templates in gadgets at some point. |
| 03:14.41 | Noshei | ZorbaBeta: do you know how /roll works in game? |
| 03:17.28 | Noshei | I'm wondering more on the probability of any specific number showing up |
| 03:21.04 | Imhothar | wouldn't it be fun if it wasn't a normal distribution |
| 03:39.29 | Ivnedar | find some corner of the world where you can run a keyboard macro that spams /roll every second and log it |
| 03:39.38 | Ivnedar | then do some analysis on the spread after 24 hours? |
| 03:40.16 | Ivnedar | Be careful though, there's a finite number of random numbers, so you don't want to use them all up |
| 03:40.38 | seebs | You *can* run out of entropy in some OSs. |
| 03:40.57 | Ivnedar | It'd be very amusing if /roll is just a sequence on a database |
| 03:41.27 | Ivnedar | with enough people rolling all the time, it'd look random to any individual |
| 03:50.45 | Noshei | I'm tempted to do a shit ton of rolls and just see how it works out |
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| 03:51.47 | Imhothar_ | I don't think you wold rely on the RNG of your OS for a game like this ;) |
| 03:52.36 | Ivnedar | it'd be interesting to see the global loot distribution for some bosses |
| 03:55.38 | Imhothar_ | if done right the global distribution is reflected by your RNG engine |
| 03:57.37 | Ivnedar | but, do you really want a "cloes to random" system? or do you want one that modifies itself so it feels more "fair" to the players who only see one little part of it |
| 03:58.10 | Imhothar_ | it's as far away from random as you can get |
| 03:58.26 | Ivnedar | do you want boss loot to be influenced by the members of the raid, or try to track it over a longer period of time, maybe store things per player and each member influences the distribution |
| 03:58.36 | Imhothar_ | it's still a numeric solution and you know exactly how much your chances are to get the number 42 |
| 03:59.40 | Imhothar_ | actually you have to o differentiate between a random number generator and the distribution |
| 03:59.57 | Imhothar_ | adjusting the distribution to be more "fair" is certainly doable |
| 04:02.27 | Ivnedar | definitely a fine line, you want a feeling of progress for the players, but you don't want it tuned so you are guaranteed particular drops with certain groups |
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| 04:13.39 | ZorbaBeta | noshei, I don't know how roll works, but it's probably close enough to evenly distributed for most purposes |
| 04:13.51 | ZorbaBeta | it's presumably pseudorandom, not true-random |
| 04:14.15 | Noshei | WELL COMPUTERS CAN'T DO TRUE-RANDOM |
| 04:14.17 | Noshei | oopds |
| 04:14.19 | ZorbaBeta | and I believe we have our own random implementation (presumably ganked from a reputable source) |
| 04:14.28 | ZorbaBeta | they can with a source of incoming entropy :V |
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| 04:18.16 | Noshei | well this is interesting |
| 04:18.32 | Noshei | there appears to be a limit on how often you can use /roll |
| 04:18.44 | Noshei | I can't get it to go off less than every 2 seconds |
| 04:19.28 | Noshei | well nevermind, it seems that it will sometimes to like 5 or 6 really fast |
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| 04:19.44 | Noshei | so maybe there is a limit on how many you can do in a specific amount of time |
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| 05:32.08 | Amadeus- | If clerics/mages can heal and dps in the same gear ...why can't warriors/rogues dps and tank in the same gear? |
| 05:32.28 | Noshei | clerics can't tank in the same gear |
| 05:32.32 | Amadeus- | I'm convinced the reason that queues are so long waiting on tanks is because so many folks dont' want to grind two sets of gear and don't want ot play in crappy gear. |
| 05:32.45 | Amadeus- | well, put them on the same list then |
| 05:33.07 | Amadeus- | just saying ...it's silly requiring people to grind a completely different set of gear ...I've always thought that was silly. |
| 05:34.33 | Amadeus- | sitting around waiting 35 minutes for a tank to group with really becomes a major bummer. |
| 05:36.37 | Ivnedar | play as a tank then? |
| 05:37.31 | seebs | The real issue is primarily that people are such jerks to tanks. |
| 05:37.49 | Ivnedar | and if not tank, then healer |
| 05:59.09 | Amadeus- | Ivnedar, I queue as healer and dps and support on this character (it's a mage) ....group sat in dungeon waiting for a tank for 10 minutes before gave up :) |
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| 09:46.25 | Ivnedar | ZorbaBeta: cornerstones are in trove now! |
| 09:46.32 | Ivnedar | they're not persistent yet though :P |
| 10:03.53 | ZorbaBeta | which sort of defeats the purpose ;) but I'm sure that's coming along |
| 10:21.10 | Ivnedar | yeah :) |
| 10:21.22 | Ivnedar | welp, finally got enough mats to make a werkbench, game crashed :( |
| 10:21.43 | Ivnedar | and now I can't login or get game news |
| 10:21.48 | Ivnedar | downtime I guess :( |
| 10:22.22 | Ivnedar | oh, nope, if the game crashes, it can't reconnect to the game |
| 10:26.45 | Ivnedar | by persistence I meant across worlds |
| 10:26.52 | Ivnedar | other players can't damage stuff there |
| 10:31.04 | seebs | I actually bought into the trove alpha thing, so in theory I get alpha keys to hand out, at some point. I think. |
| 10:32.52 | seebs | Being level 60 is full of confusing. |
| 10:32.58 | Ivnedar | grats! :D |
| 10:33.15 | Ivnedar | bit sucky that mobs can be attacking you through the walls of your cornerstone while you're trying to build |
| 10:34.04 | seebs | Of course, now everyone ELSE has to make 60 so I can open *their* temporal lockboxes. |
| 10:34.49 | Ivnedar | :) |
| 10:35.01 | seebs | Turns out, the best way to get gear using ESMs is to buy the pretty rocks for making dyes, make rare dyes, and sell those for money with which to buy gear. |
| 10:35.10 | Ivnedar | so much qq over the raid boxes having a timer on them |
| 10:35.48 | Ivnedar | I don't think they get the irony of complaining that they have to wait until the 25th to open their fae yule present |
| 10:40.50 | seebs | I am a bit unclear on whether it's a 12-day timer or an until-the-25th timer. |
| 10:43.05 | Ivnedar | hrrm, good point |
| 10:43.15 | Ivnedar | I assumed 25th 'cause that's when ours kinda lined up with |
| 10:45.50 | seebs | I still find "the twelve days of fae yule" an amusing conceit for the lockboxes. |
| 10:47.33 | Ivnedar | I like that the supporter packages accumulate |
| 10:47.42 | Ivnedar | means I can decide later to up my support :D |
| 10:47.54 | seebs | Oh, for Trove? |
| 10:48.01 | Ivnedar | yeah |
| 10:48.08 | seebs | There is a post on the forums where someone expresses being upset with the lockboxes. |
| 10:48.17 | seebs | Enough that he started supporting another game... |
| 10:48.22 | seebs | Which I sort of get, except. |
| 10:48.26 | seebs | *$30,000*??!?!? |
| 10:49.03 | Ivnedar | that sounds a lot like the eve online post I was reading |
| 10:49.19 | Ivnedar | guy said he'd spent $30k in eve and since the griefers weren't punished, he's leaving |
| 10:49.35 | seebs | wtf |
| 10:49.37 | seebs | who would... |
| 10:49.53 | seebs | who would spend 30k on eve and not have caught on that the griefers are an essential part of the product on offer? |
| 10:49.59 | Ivnedar | I have no idea |
| 10:50.48 | Ivnedar | oh wait, that was 3500, not 35000 |
| 10:50.51 | Ivnedar | http://www.firesworn.com/blog/4/entry-24-the-cost-of-bullying-in-eve-online/ |
| 10:51.58 | seebs | http://forums.riftgame.com/general-discussions/general-discussion/403711-lockboxes-they-only-method-gaining-2.html#post4631335 <-- $30,000. |
| 10:53.27 | seebs | Meanwhile, I'm slightly annoyed because the recipes for the things that are actually useful to me are invariably rare-drops-from-crafting-dailies, so they can't be bought with marks, etc. |
| 10:53.38 | Ivnedar | I'm pretty sure they would have got that pet they wanted from lockboxes if they bought $30k worth :P |
| 10:53.58 | Ivnedar | or drops from experts |
| 10:54.26 | seebs | And the thing is, I sort of agree that the "this thing comes only from lockboxes and you can never, ever, guarantee getting it" thing sucks. |
| 10:54.32 | Ivnedar | I think a lot of people would be happy if the lockboxes only dropped the things they're advertised as dropping |
| 10:54.45 | Ivnedar | instead of "you have a very small chance to win one of the following things you want" |
| 10:54.56 | seebs | I proposed an alternative, which is that lockboxes always drop a corresponding currency, which can buy anything they might contain. |
| 10:55.00 | seebs | Eventually. |
| 10:55.24 | Ivnedar | ah yeah, every lockbox contains a "second chance ticket" |
| 10:55.31 | Ivnedar | and you can trade in 20 tickets for a mount or something |
| 10:55.35 | seebs | Exactly. |
| 10:55.46 | seebs | And the number could be largeish, but then you at least have an upper bound. |
| 10:56.12 | Ivnedar | more people may buy them if they know that they'll get what they want after a known amount, if not sooner |
| 10:56.37 | seebs | Yeah. I mean, one of the things that works well with Rift's dungeon model is that you MIGHT get drops, and if you don't, at least you get currency that can fill in the gaps. |
| 10:56.58 | seebs | Ah, well. I should try to sleep. |
| 10:57.09 | Ivnedar | nite! |
| 11:01.02 | Ivnedar | love the trove raptor mount btw :) |
| 11:02.47 | seebs | There's a trove raptor mount? |
| 11:06.55 | Ivnedar | yes :D |
| 11:07.01 | Ivnedar | with a monocle :D |
| 11:07.10 | Ivnedar | http://webcdn.triongames.com/trove/img/lightbox/fancyraptor.jpg |
| 11:07.36 | Ivnedar | I think it started out as a counter to RR trolling them |
| 11:09.16 | Ivnedar | http://webcdn.triongames.com/trove/img/lightbox/holidayraptor.jpg |
| 11:09.19 | Ivnedar | there's that one too |
| 11:09.27 | Ivnedar | if we get enough supporters to unlock that tier by jan 1 |
| 11:14.40 | seebs | heh. |
| 11:23.02 | Amadeus- | http://forums.riftgame.com/general-discussions/general-discussion/403763-trion-hiring-more-engineers-could-you-our-next.html |
| 11:23.27 | seebs | Yeah. Well, good that they're hiring, that makes me more optimistic about their future. |
| 11:23.34 | seebs | zzz |
| 11:23.44 | Amadeus- | I feel really bad for that one kid graduating college saying he's familiar with C#, Java, and SQL ...I hope he wasn't majoring with an intention to work as a software developer. |
| 11:24.20 | Amadeus- | I know that shit is used a lot ...but the notion of graduating with a college degree without really knowing C/C++ is just sad to me. |
| 11:36.15 | ZorbaBeta | it wouldn't surprise me if those languages put together are actually far more generally useful than C++ |
| 11:36.37 | ZorbaBeta | C++'s niche really just gets narrower every year |
| 11:41.47 | Ivnedar | woo, my first transcendent item in trove :D |
| 11:58.32 | Amadeus- | ZorbaBeta, well, the point is that if you get a really good grasp of C/C++ ..it's trivial to learn those other languages. |
| 11:58.40 | Amadeus- | well, maybe not trivial ..but you get the point |
| 12:00.03 | Amadeus- | and, there may be less jobs for C/C++ but I don't think they're getting less important ...someone has to actually write/maintain the tools/backends that the fluffy C#/Java/etc. is being used with. |
| 12:00.44 | Amadeus- | the whole microchip based coding still uses ASM/C |
| 12:00.50 | Amadeus- | even after all these years ..hehe |
| 12:02.56 | Amadeus- | -- |
| 12:03.12 | Amadeus- | btw ZorbaBeta, you can see the server-login-bug-after-reset right now if you try to log into the game :) |
| 12:03.17 | Amadeus- | at least Deepwood where I'm logging into |
| 12:03.22 | Amadeus- | click on character...game freezes |
| 12:04.26 | Amadeus- | then eventually...about 1-2 minutes, "The server may be temporarily unavailable" message and you get bumped back to Char. Select. |
| 12:04.56 | Amadeus- | (I think that's a funny error message too ..lol ..."hmm..i'm not sure, but I think the server MAY not be interested in working with you right now....it's emotionally unavailable") |
| 12:05.12 | Amadeus- | afk |
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| 18:52.13 | seebs | I still don't consider "C/C++" to be a thing. |
| 18:52.29 | seebs | C and C++ are very fundamentally different languages, and a lot of people who are good at one are bad at the other. |
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| 19:44.00 | seebs | http://www.gaslampgames.com/2013/11/20/the-codebase-of-elemental-evil/ |
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| 22:18.58 | Quickblink | I hope someone can help me here: Is there a problem with declaring multiple functions with a loop? |
| 22:20.35 | seebs | I don't understand the question. |
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| 22:28.31 | Quickblink | It's difficult to explain: I got an error, that said "(" expected, but I don't see where that should be the case. The line is "function configwin.colorsliders[i].Event:SliderChange()" and is inside of a loop. I asked myself if it had to do with creating functions inside of loops. If it is possible it would also require, that the loop variable i inside the function gets replaced immediately, so when it's called it does know, whi |
| 22:29.10 | seebs | Doesn't matter where you create a function, but I don't think a function name can be like that. |
| 22:29.26 | seebs | You'd have to do something like configwin.colorsliders[i].Event.SliderChange = function() ... end |
| 22:29.37 | seebs | Also! That looks like you're using the old event model, so you want to do that differently anyway. |
| 22:33.12 | Quickblink | yeah I already thought copying really old stuff is not a good idea...RiftSlider:EventAttach this? |
| 22:33.38 | seebs | I think it's now Command.Event.Attach(), but my memory is fuzzy. |
| 22:33.48 | seebs | Wait, no, it is :EventAttach, I think. |
| 22:34.38 | Quickblink | yeah it's an UI event |
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| 23:00.20 | Quickblink | still having problems with attaching that event... I think the problem is SliderChange() is not an event but already a handler. The thing is... I don't have any idea what to do. |
| 23:23.06 | seebs | What do you want to accomplish? You might want to look at code in other addons (using the new event model) which handles slider changes. |
