| 00:00.20 | Ivnedar | I wouldn't use that arguement, because then it's ok for anyone to do it :) |
| 00:00.28 | Noshei | ^ |
| 00:00.31 | seebs | Honestly, that might be fine. |
| 00:00.59 | Ivnedar | I was disappointed when the poll wasn't in spanish tbj |
| 00:01.05 | Ivnedar | s/tbj/tbh/ |
| 00:01.08 | seebs | The issue with poll threads is that if you don't use the actual vB polling mechanism, you end up with these HUGE threads in which any discussion is flooded out by people posting "yes" and "no" and "b" and "i like the third option" |
| 00:01.36 | seebs | And also, if there's polls on the forums, users get furious if the devs don't do what the poll showed unless they don't like what the poll showed in which case they insist that polls are invalid. |
| 00:01.53 | seebs | But it's funny so I posted anyway. |
| 00:02.41 | Noshei | danhanese response to my e-mail: |
| 00:02.43 | Noshei | Thanks for reaching out! First off: I want to apologize for the confusion on the infractions. The system we have in place is, frankly, not the best – we’re working to change that, but it definitely ended up with a less-than-good experience for you. You received an infraction for trolling and accumulated enough points to give you a temporary time out, but your main account will be back online tomorrow for you to post again. (As an |
| 00:02.43 | Noshei | aside, let me know if you have any questions about the rules – happy to talk to help avoid this in the future!) |
| 00:02.43 | Noshei | <PROTECTED> |
| 00:02.43 | Noshei | Creating a second account, while against the rules, makes sense in this case – you wanted to know what was going on – and I’m sorry you were banned for that. Generally, we chat with the newly created account and after everything is sorted, ban it so you can go back to using your regular name. |
| 00:02.43 | Noshei | <PROTECTED> |
| 00:02.45 | Noshei | I hope this explains everything – and when you’ll be back on the forums – but please let me know if you want to talk more. That’s what I’m here for! |
| 00:03.21 | Ivnedar | wow, you're on the known troll watchlist? |
| 00:03.27 | Ivnedar | you dirty troll you! |
| 00:08.17 | seebs | That... raises fascinating questions, like "how did you have enough infractions to get banned"? |
| 00:08.37 | seebs | I didn't even think that post was trolling. Did the original notification tell you which mod gave the infraction? |
| 00:08.38 | Ivnedar | or are points accumulated by people reading the post? |
| 00:08.58 | Ivnedar | so the more public the troll, the more points you get |
| 00:12.38 | Noshei | yes seebs I got the mods name, they posted on the thread |
| 01:17.09 | *** join/#riftuidev seebs (~seebs@home.seebs.net) |
| 01:17.10 | *** mode/#riftuidev [+o seebs] by ChanServ |
| 02:02.34 | ZorbaBeta | amadeus, for what it's worth, if you can describe in precise pseudocode how tab targeting should work, we would be *happy* to fix it |
| 02:02.55 | ZorbaBeta | but we've gone through a few iterations and we basically cannot figure out what algorithm other games are using |
| 02:03.10 | ZorbaBeta | what we've got now is the best we could come up with. it turned out to be a surprising mystery. |
| 02:03.23 | ZorbaBeta | it seems like it should be really really easy but it turns out it totally isn't |
| 02:03.45 | Amadeus- | ZorbaBeta, that thread I linked gave quite a few good ideas |
| 02:04.23 | Amadeus- | I think what people want, speaking basically, is for it to be from nearest to furthest enemy ..based on what's in the middle of your screen and then by a cone from you outwards |
| 02:04.31 | Ivnedar | so you'd need to maintain a stack of mobs in front cone in order of distance from centre of player and have a timeout on tab position in stack? |
| 02:04.49 | ZorbaBeta | we've tried a bunch of those and they don't work anywhere near as well as you'd intuitively expect :( |
| 02:04.55 | Ivnedar | so if you don't press tab for 2s, the next pointer is back at the top of the stack |
| 02:05.05 | Amadeus- | yea, I think what people want is for when they hit tab ...whatever is right in front of them would be selected |
| 02:05.11 | Amadeus- | not something off to one side or the other |
| 02:05.18 | ZorbaBeta | the big problem is that they work fantastically as long as you assume targets aren't moving, but given that targets move *all the time*, that assumption doesn't work out well |
| 02:06.07 | Ivnedar | yeah, I was trying to work out how to describe updating that stack as things move in and out of the cone |
| 02:06.12 | Ivnedar | or as the cone moves |
| 02:06.16 | Amadeus- | btw ZorbaBeta, I was kindof wondering if anyone in the office had ever suggested having a common "Currency tab" for all characters on the same account. I can't think of a reason why not to do that. |
| 02:06.31 | ZorbaBeta | part of me is vaguely tempted to set up an ultra-restricted tab-targeting addon environment with very few hooks to the outside to prevent exploits |
| 02:06.43 | Amadeus- | ZorbaBeta, I think that would be nice :) |
| 02:06.46 | Ivnedar | hrrm, what would that entail? |
| 02:06.51 | Amadeus- | but yea, with restrictions of course |
| 02:06.58 | ZorbaBeta | amadeus, if you mean "and share currency", then not likely, because currency isn't global. if you mean "to show all characters' currency", then not likely, because other characters aren't loaded :) |
| 02:06.59 | Ivnedar | addon gets a list of units and returns the one to target? |
| 02:07.16 | ZorbaBeta | ivnedar, realistically, it would be an independent lua environment with extremely few events and commands |
| 02:07.21 | Ivnedar | *nod* |
| 02:07.22 | Amadeus- | ZorbaBeta, but why couldn't currency be global across all characters on the same account? I'm just trying to think of why it shouldn't work that way :) |
| 02:07.25 | ZorbaBeta | a subset of *.Unit.* and that's it |
| 02:07.30 | Ivnedar | so it'd be up to the player to define the logic in targetting? |
| 02:07.35 | ZorbaBeta | ivnedar, yep |
| 02:07.52 | Amadeus- | it would avoid having to add the planar vouchers all the time..hehe |
| 02:07.53 | ZorbaBeta | hard to work into the existing framework because we want to prevent things like players mashing tab and the target being dictated by the raid leader |
| 02:07.55 | Ivnedar | interesting |
| 02:08.03 | Ivnedar | ZorbaBeta: busted :D |
| 02:08.12 | Amadeus- | ZorbaBeta, we do kindof have that htough |
| 02:08.14 | Ivnedar | I was wondering if other addons could feed info into it |
| 02:08.16 | ZorbaBeta | but if it was a completely separate lua environment, we could control things like that |
| 02:08.17 | Amadeus- | with marks |
| 02:08.28 | ZorbaBeta | the answer would be "no, except maybe out of combat" :) |
| 02:08.34 | Ivnedar | or if it would be protected in that the function couldn't be touched in combat etc |
| 02:08.41 | ZorbaBeta | that said there is no way whatsoever I could justify the implementation time. |
| 02:08.42 | Noshei | ZorbaBeta: you see the bug i posted up a ways about Event.Stat and companion pets? |
| 02:08.45 | Amadeus- | leader marks something and then there is the KBM addon for easily targeting a particular mark |
| 02:08.53 | ZorbaBeta | noshei, yeah, pets and stats interact in some unfortunate ways :/ |
| 02:09.00 | Ivnedar | Amadeus-: yeah, macro methods too |
| 02:09.05 | ZorbaBeta | amadeus, yeah, maybe that's a bad example then |
| 02:09.19 | ZorbaBeta | but in general we don't want addons making AI decisions involving buffs and debuffs and boss states and the like |
| 02:09.23 | seebs | Hey, Zorba. Do items have names distinct from the name of their type? *Could* they? |
| 02:09.25 | Ivnedar | or assist macros, which is a better way often |
| 02:09.37 | ZorbaBeta | seebs, hmm. unsure what you mean - example? |
| 02:09.46 | Ivnedar | same type, but two names? |
| 02:10.03 | seebs | Like, right now, so far as I know, Inspect.Item.Detail(some-item) produces a table with a .id member and a .name member. |
| 02:10.14 | seebs | And Inspect.Item.Detail(foo.id).name == foo.name |
| 02:10.22 | ZorbaBeta | aha |
| 02:10.24 | seebs | But what if you could *rename the item*? |
| 02:10.29 | seebs | Because that would *print money*. |
| 02:10.35 | seebs | Trilkin's fault, he suggested it in-game. |
| 02:10.42 | ZorbaBeta | no, those two will always match - the id refers to a specific item at all times |
| 02:10.53 | ZorbaBeta | so if you could rename the item, then IID(foo.id).name would refer to the same item |
| 02:10.56 | seebs | Oh, wait. .typeid, I think. |
| 02:11.01 | ZorbaBeta | that said, if you mean changing it so that .type or whatever it is . . . yeah |
| 02:11.05 | Amadeus- | in other games items had an "ID" and a "Serial number" ...I assume Rift worked the same |
| 02:11.08 | ZorbaBeta | in theory that could be implemented |
| 02:11.19 | Ivnedar | please don't! |
| 02:11.20 | Ivnedar | :) |
| 02:11.26 | seebs | I would totally pay credits for the ability to rename a hammer "Mallet of Loving Correction" or something like that. |
| 02:11.27 | ZorbaBeta | amadeus, in our case id is the unique global identifier, type (or typeid, I forget which) is the name |
| 02:11.50 | ZorbaBeta | I admit that part of me is thinking "not worth the effort" but . . . well . . . credits |
| 02:11.52 | Ivnedar | typeid is the thing that describes the object, id is the thing that points at that one instance of the object/stack |
| 02:11.54 | seebs | It's .type |
| 02:12.00 | Amadeus- | ah |
| 02:12.04 | seebs | So Inspect.Item.Detail(foo.type).name == foo.name |
| 02:12.11 | ZorbaBeta | I will pass that along to designers. No guarantees. It might vanish in auctions houses, also :V |
| 02:12.19 | Ivnedar | and combining stacks |
| 02:12.25 | seebs | But if it weren't always the case... That would make serious bank. Also it would be a great excuse for the GMs to hand out an entirely new kind of ban. |
| 02:12.31 | Ivnedar | it could be built into the transmog stuff maybe? |
| 02:12.40 | seebs | I'd guess you'd want to restrict it to non-stacking items. |
| 02:12.57 | Amadeus- | ZorbaBeta, have you ever played using Imhothar's Bags addon? I think it's an amazing quality of life addon and if we had a few more features, it could be REALLY nice :) |
| 02:13.39 | seebs | Oh, Zorba. As to tab targeting. |
| 02:13.42 | seebs | The solution exists! |
| 02:14.04 | Noshei | Infernal Coif should not be allowed to be dyed white in game |
| 02:14.07 | Trilkin | It absolutely WOULD print money. |
| 02:14.08 | Ivnedar | implement a few methods and allow the player to pick one from the settings? :D |
| 02:14.12 | ZorbaBeta | amadeus, yeah it's pretty sweet. dude did a good job on it |
| 02:14.13 | Noshei | *Infernal Cowl |
| 02:14.29 | seebs | FF14 has a very nice solution, at least in part, to the tab targeting thing. |
| 02:14.31 | ZorbaBeta | there's some really fantastic addons that have been made :) |
| 02:14.53 | ZorbaBeta | ivnedar, options cost money to maintain, though. maybe if we had two really good tab targeting systems that people couldn't decide between |
| 02:14.54 | seebs | There's a large set of categories, and you get to define several *sets*, and you can have something bound to select-next-in-set. |
| 02:15.04 | ZorbaBeta | but as it is we ended up with like four tab targeting systems all of which kinda sucked :V |
| 02:15.35 | Ivnedar | I know there won't be one system that everyone loves, but if there were a few options, enough that most people had one they liked, that could work |
| 02:15.36 | Amadeus- | yea, Kalert, KBM, and Im. bags are some of my favorites ...I can think of a few API additions to make the bags better ...but, imhothar isn't really playing now anyway. I guess I could try to update it ....but LUA is not something I use hardly at all... |
| 02:15.39 | seebs | And people seem to quite like it, which is a good thing because their click targeting is hilariously broken. |
| 02:15.53 | Ivnedar | I remember wow let you modify the targeting system in the config file |
| 02:16.09 | Ivnedar | changing the cone width, whether or not to pick people behind if on camera, etc |
| 02:16.09 | ZorbaBeta | seebs, any idea how it handles new creatures showing up? where does it get inserted in the list? |
| 02:16.17 | Amadeus- | click targetting in Rift is an issue because of large raids (pve or pvp) where there is so much lag trying to target anything |
| 02:16.24 | seebs | I am not sure how it does that, honestly. |
| 02:16.38 | ZorbaBeta | seebs, yeah, that's the problem we kept running into :/ |
| 02:16.45 | ZorbaBeta | amadeus, hopefully that'll get better as my performance fixes show up |
| 02:16.51 | Amadeus- | cool |
| 02:17.02 | seebs | You can get some pretty decent discussions of it from the ff14 reddit. At least for common cases like player/player-pet, it was pretty straightforward. |
| 02:17.11 | seebs | And every tab-targeting system I've ever used has been bad at DWIM, for me anyway. |
| 02:17.24 | Amadeus- | You know, I never had issues with tab targetting in EQ or EQ2 ...wonder how they do it |
| 02:17.30 | Amadeus- | never heard many people complain in those games either |
| 02:17.47 | Trilkin | Well |
| 02:17.51 | seebs | The problem tends to be that if it's doing nearest-to-furthest, it's not clear what should happen to the order when things move. |
| 02:17.58 | Trilkin | In EQ1's case, it's the first game where tab targetting was a 'thing' |
| 02:18.06 | ZorbaBeta | amadeus, yeah, as far as we can tell, EQ and WoW are just magic |
| 02:18.19 | Trilkin | And EQ1's tab targetting was fucking god-awful. |
| 02:18.20 | Ivnedar | My preference would be the order is maintained while the set members remains the same, until some timeout is hit |
| 02:18.41 | Ivnedar | so if I'm tabbing through a set of mobs, and they're moving around inside that cone, the tab order remains until I don't tab for 2s |
| 02:19.09 | Ivnedar | roflmao |
| 02:19.18 | Ivnedar | so, I googled for "world of warcraft tab targetting" |
| 02:19.21 | Ivnedar | first result |
| 02:19.27 | Ivnedar | "Tab Target Sucks..." |
| 02:19.37 | ZorbaBeta | hah |
| 02:19.40 | ZorbaBeta | welp |
| 02:19.45 | Ivnedar | http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/7894179638 |
| 02:19.51 | seebs | CoH would include critters that were 1km away if the client was aware of them, which was... not useful. |
| 02:20.01 | Ivnedar | about how tab targetting worked awesomely up until around cata |
| 02:20.21 | Trilkin | FF14's tab targetting system is probably the best because you have a granulated set of features. |
| 02:20.38 | Trilkin | Or options orw hatever we want to call them. |
| 02:21.06 | Trilkin | In Rift, you have uh - 'tab target through shit in front of you... or tab target through everything in a three lightyear radius' |
| 02:21.33 | Ivnedar | oooh, allow addons to modify the variables used by the built in system? |
| 02:21.35 | Ivnedar | out of combat |
| 02:21.38 | Trilkin | 'Didn't want to tab target to that otherwise untargetable mob? Pfft. That's stupid. You're stupid.' |
| 02:21.47 | Ivnedar | instead of making an addon environment to be called when targetting |
| 02:21.51 | Ivnedar | allow the dials to be fiddled with |
| 02:22.07 | Trilkin | EQ1's wasn't much better, but the thing with EQ1 is that its tab target range was much shorter. |
| 02:22.12 | ZorbaBeta | ivnedar, yeah, thought of that too - probably an extension to the Settings API |
| 02:22.32 | Trilkin | And that's the 'secret' |
| 02:22.47 | Trilkin | Here's a thought: tab target priority to marked targets - in order of marking. |
| 02:22.54 | Trilkin | Make it happen. |
| 02:22.58 | Ivnedar | allow setting cone angle, max range, min range maybe |
| 02:23.06 | Ivnedar | hostile vs neutral |
| 02:23.25 | Ivnedar | wouldn't be as flexible as making your own algorithm, but could work |
| 02:26.15 | Ivnedar | ooh, that could be an interesting option |
| 02:26.49 | Ivnedar | tab will cycle through marked mobs from 1-30 if they exist |
| 02:26.55 | Ivnedar | shift tab to reverse cycle |
| 02:26.57 | Trilkin | Yar. |
| 02:27.28 | Ivnedar | "Switch to 1!" <tab> "Now switch to 2!" <tab> |
| 02:27.29 | Ivnedar | :D |
| 02:27.39 | Trilkin | This would be extremely useful in, uh, every T2 raid ever. |
| 02:27.51 | Trilkin | I can think of a few examples already off of the top of my head |
| 02:30.13 | Trilkin | Basically any encounter with a swarm of adds, but multiple targets to kill |
| 02:30.21 | Trilkin | Right off the top of my head, Eggtenders comes to mind |
| 02:33.49 | Ivnedar | being able to load in an iterator function with a very limited environment could be rather handy too |
| 02:33.57 | Ivnedar | you could load in a different one per encounter |
| 02:35.25 | seebs | Oh, ZorbaBeta, another thing I wanna ask about, if you're around. Social window! |
| 02:36.03 | seebs | Is there any way for me to see whether a character has been selected in that window? I want to do player notes, and I can command-line them, but I can't find any other ways to detect them. |
| 02:36.14 | seebs | Oh, and. The tooltips for clicking on item links don't show up in Event.Tooltip, I don't think. |
| 02:36.20 | ZorbaBeta | seebs, I don't believe there is right now, there's very rarely interaction between addon and native UI |
| 02:36.38 | Ivnedar | seebs: I don't think they ever did? |
| 02:36.40 | seebs | Thing is, player notes are useful, but they're per-character, so they're... not so useful. |
| 02:36.42 | ZorbaBeta | and yeah I don't think they do, the link tooltips are Different |
| 02:37.04 | seebs | Thing is, I want to do price checks on items, and I have an addon that does price checks on tooltips, but it can't on links. WAILING AND GNASHING OF TEETH! |
| 02:37.59 | seebs | I have no idea what to do with these temporal aligners. I don't have any obvious use for them. But I can't vendor them. |
| 02:38.05 | seebs | ... See also, my stacks of 35x veteran's XP pots. |
| 02:42.02 | seebs | Hmm. Do we have any way to look at crafting stuff, even just to query lists of known recipes and such? |
| 02:42.18 | ZorbaBeta | not atm |
| 02:42.27 | Ivnedar | nope, and the ability id of crafting each item is identical |
| 02:42.28 | seebs | I want to make an addon to tell me what I need to craft all my crafting dailies. |
| 02:42.47 | Ivnedar | build a database out of the recipe discovery data? |
| 02:43.07 | seebs | Yeah, I could do that. |
| 02:43.29 | seebs | 21 crafting dailies = a lot |
| 02:43.43 | Ivnedar | I was doing them all at one point |
| 02:43.51 | Ivnedar | but yeah, takes a lot of time and resources |
| 02:43.53 | seebs | I try to, but in practice it takes over a day to gather the mats. |
| 02:44.22 | Ivnedar | generally they're the same ingredients each day? |
| 02:44.30 | Ivnedar | even if the recipe is different |
| 02:44.59 | Ivnedar | so you could track how many days of materials you have remaining |
| 02:45.08 | seebs | Not quite. Weaponsmith can use wood *or* metal, for instance. |
| 02:45.08 | Ivnedar | could be handy to work out when you need to go refarm |
| 02:46.18 | seebs | Huh. |
| 02:46.41 | seebs | The stuff in inspect.quest.detail doesn't seem to give me the item ID for the objective, just the indicator stuff. |
| 02:47.15 | seebs | So I have to by-hand figure out the lookup from "Craft Mathosian Longbows" to a hypothetical "Mathosian Longbow". |
| 02:48.35 | Ivnedar | doesn't give objective itemkey of ADD2A0E10201010101 ? |
| 02:48.47 | Ivnedar | maybe that's in discovery data only |
| 02:49.30 | seebs | I think it may be. |
| 02:50.32 | ZorbaBeta | if it doesn't have objective item keys, it probably should, really |
| 02:51.07 | seebs | Not seeing any. |
| 02:51.26 | seebs | Only issue is I can't do a version for non-English clients as easily. |
| 02:51.58 | ZorbaBeta | well, in theory, the quest ID is the same - so if you're doing it by hand, it's not too tough to do it by hand from a quest ID instead |
| 02:52.06 | ZorbaBeta | but yeah the item id should really just be included |
| 02:52.28 | seebs | Although I still need to go from that to the materials needed. |
| 02:52.34 | ZorbaBeta | true |
| 02:52.45 | ZorbaBeta | atm I think you'd need a hand-written lookup table, unfortunately |
| 02:52.56 | seebs | I'm sort of thinking to do it based on the item name anyway, just so it's easier to debug if something DOES go wrong. |
| 02:53.15 | seebs | Gonna look at the discovery files, see whether they have the info I want. |
| 02:54.47 | seebs | ... wait. XML. |
| 02:54.54 | seebs | I hate XML. Why do I always forget that I hate XML? |
| 02:55.46 | ZorbaBeta | don't blame you, I hate XML too |
| 02:56.49 | seebs | I just want to quickly grab "the data on all the quests with names like..." |
| 02:58.56 | Ivnedar | ooer, they're updating the discovery data again! |
| 02:58.57 | Ivnedar | woo |
| 02:59.10 | Ivnedar | guessing someone found the broken job |
| 02:59.18 | Ivnedar | or came back from holidays and started doing it manually again :P |
| 03:00.50 | Ivnedar | uhh, but it's 1/3 the size it used to be |
| 03:00.50 | Ivnedar | hrrm |
| 03:01.40 | Ivnedar | I wonder if they removed the discovery data for all the shards that got merged |
| 03:02.06 | Noshei | Ivnedar: you said you made a proteus kbm? |
| 03:02.11 | Ivnedar | nope |
| 03:02.16 | Noshei | ah dang |
| 03:02.48 | seebs | hahaha |
| 03:02.53 | seebs | Bowser is trying to threaten me. |
| 03:02.56 | Ivnedar | yup, all the merged shard discovery data is gone |
| 03:02.57 | seebs | Man, this is a good day. |
| 03:03.10 | seebs | "shutup" "please" "before i force u to rape goats" |
| 03:03.23 | seebs | "why dont u shutup before i put shulfer u off mount olympus" |
| 03:03.36 | Ivnedar | put shulfer? |
| 03:03.44 | seebs | I don't know. |
| 03:04.31 | Ivnedar | shove maybe? |
| 03:06.59 | seebs | Maybe. |
| 03:14.54 | ZorbaBeta | how does one force someone else to rape goats? I don't even understand how that's possible |
| 03:15.14 | Ivnedar | first you need a yak |
| 03:15.40 | Ivnedar | and around 3kg of strawberries |
| 03:51.57 | seebs | I don't know. |
| 03:52.09 | seebs | But I do sort of wonder why it's taking so long to finish banning this one of Bowser's accounts. |
| 03:52.25 | seebs | Because it's not like this is even *atypical* for him. |
| 04:26.27 | seebs | Huh. Theoretical question: How do I decide how far to follow the recipe chain? Say, do I tell you that you need truehide to make truehide leather, or do I just tell you how many leather you need to make an item? |
| 04:27.11 | Ivnedar | tickboxes! |
| 04:27.26 | Ivnedar | "Hide raw gathering materials" |
| 04:27.35 | seebs | Noooo no UI complexity. |
| 04:27.37 | Ivnedar | hides, ore, wood |
| 04:27.56 | Ivnedar | cli option then! |
| 04:28.16 | Ivnedar | or hide them completely and don't give an option |
| 04:29.37 | seebs | I think I may want to just omit any recipes with only one component, like the various leathers. |
| 04:30.06 | Ivnedar | what about catalytic dusts? or are you only doing daily quests? |
| 04:30.13 | seebs | Only the daily quests. |
| 04:30.16 | Ivnedar | though they take 2 ingredients, nevermind :D |
| 04:31.51 | seebs | I started with a list of all "Workorder:" quests, grabbed the keys for all the things they need, and then grabbed every recipe that makes such items. |
| 04:33.03 | seebs | This is really odd. |
| 04:33.12 | seebs | I'm getting references to the "Twenty X" recipes. |
| 04:33.47 | seebs | Ohhh. I think that's from the UI convenience feature of suggesting those as options. |
| 04:34.24 | Ivnedar | they'd be skipped because they have 1 ingredient? |
| 04:35.12 | seebs | I didn't implement the "skip things with only one ingredient" yet. |
| 04:35.21 | seebs | So it's finding that it needs shadethorn lumber, and finding a recipe for it, which it uses. |
| 04:35.26 | seebs | Except that's the wrong recipe. |
| 04:35.43 | Ivnedar | unless you need 20+ and then it's the right one :D |
| 04:36.00 | seebs | But it's the wrong one to use for reporting, because I don't want to report that, since you need a shadethorn tamata, you need 20 shadethorn. |
| 04:37.21 | Ivnedar | so you can take into account the Creates->Item->Quantity->20 ? |
| 04:40.11 | Amadeus- | I wish I knew what caused carnage quests to start showing up on the quest tracker...when you have it disabled ....it's so random a thing ..can't figure out what makes it happen |
| 04:40.28 | Amadeus- | they will disapper if you click and then unclick carnage ....but wonder why it gets screwd up |
| 04:41.24 | seebs | I think what I have now is close to good enough. |
| 04:42.00 | seebs | It can tell me that I need 3x eternal planar dust, 6x heavy lacquer, 8x premium grinding stone, 4x wondrous flux, 14x shadethorn lumber, 4x orichalcum bar, 8x runewoven cord, and 32x sagebrush lumber, for my dailies. |
| 04:42.09 | seebs | That's on a character who only has three, mind. |
| 04:42.35 | seebs | Huh. |
| 04:42.40 | seebs | That's a UI bug, I think. |
| 04:42.49 | seebs | The Rift UI shows me as having 0/1 Wondrous Flux, but I have four of them. |
| 04:42.57 | seebs | Unless I got this quest so long ago that my quest object has the wrong ID. |
| 04:43.14 | seebs | Which is possible. |
| 04:52.37 | Ivnedar | awwh, our executive assistant hates me now :( |
| 04:52.53 | Ivnedar | she sent out a reminder about our christmas party tomorrow and that the dress code was "approximately dressed" |
| 04:53.11 | Ivnedar | we had a discussion here about what that meant before I emailed her asking what that meant and what our discussion ended up at |
| 04:53.43 | Ivnedar | since approximately means approaching or near to, we could rock up with our clothes in a plastic bag and be approximately dressed |
| 04:54.12 | Ivnedar | she sent out another email to say that everyone needs to be appropriately dressed, so we had the same discussion, OED seems to imply that appropriately dressed would mean that you own clothing |
| 04:54.21 | Ivnedar | so sent those discussion points back to her :D |
| 04:55.13 | seebs | If she doesn't like that, why is she working in an office with programmers? |
| 04:55.23 | Ivnedar | :D |
| 04:55.53 | Ivnedar | worse, sysadmins! |
| 04:58.48 | ZorbaBeta | I am consistently amused at how bad people are at managing techs :V |
| 05:00.02 | Ivnedar | nah, she's great, hence the stirring :) |
| 05:00.57 | Ivnedar | lol, "I hate you all! Every one of you" "That hurts!" "No it doesn't!" |
| 05:09.56 | seebs | Ahh, "hates" as in "is playing at hating". |
| 05:10.03 | Ivnedar | yeah :) |
| 05:15.51 | seebs | I would not mind a field in Inspect.Item.Detail() for "can be bought from a vendor". |
| 05:16.28 | seebs | heyyy. |
| 05:16.39 | seebs | Bank vaults not yet known to addon API? |
| 05:16.48 | seebs | Or maybe I am using it wrong. |
| 05:16.52 | seebs | I am probably using it wrong. |
| 05:16.58 | Noshei | they are |
| 05:17.17 | seebs | Inspect.Item.Detail(Utility.Item.Slot.Bank()) doesn' |
| 05:17.20 | Ivnedar | sv. stuff |
| 05:17.24 | seebs | doesn't seem to be detecting some stuff I have in Valut 4. |
| 05:17.31 | Ivnedar | .Vault() exist? |
| 05:17.56 | seebs | Ohh, right. |
| 05:18.00 | seebs | That's separate from .Bank. |
| 05:18.03 | Ivnedar | yeah |
| 05:18.12 | Ivnedar | the first tab overlaps the two |
| 05:18.19 | Ivnedar | first vault sorry |
| 05:18.31 | seebs | eww |
| 05:18.54 | seebs | Ahh, but I can use Utility.Item.Slot.Bank('bag') to not overlap the vaults. |
| 05:19.48 | Ivnedar | the first vault shows up as bankmain or something like that |
| 05:19.56 | seebs | Yup. |
| 05:20.09 | Ivnedar | backward compatibility I guess |
| 05:20.10 | seebs | So Bank('bag') does not overlap Vault(). I think. |
| 05:20.11 | seebs | Yeah. |
| 05:20.35 | Ivnedar | yeah, 'bag' should work |
| 05:21.41 | seebs | Oh, wait. It doesn't, because that just lists the bags, not the contents of the bags. |
| 05:23.32 | Ivnedar | does 'sb' work? as arg to IID() |
| 05:23.53 | seebs | I think sb gets the main (aka vault 1) too. |
| 05:24.07 | seebs | Anyway, got a working thing, enough coding, time to slaughter... Hmm. Things that have empyrean silk, it seems. |
| 05:30.54 | seebs | Okay, made it default to not showing already-completed things. |
| 05:41.01 | Ivnedar | Monument Valley looks like a fun game |
| 05:41.12 | Ivnedar | Looks like a more modern version of Echochrome |
| 06:29.47 | *** join/#riftuidev Fisker (~ballmer@2a01:4f8:d12:1104:d1e:d1e:d1e:d1e) |
| 06:30.08 | *** join/#riftuidev driphter (TheDriphte@c-107-5-162-23.hsd1.mi.comcast.net) |
| 06:36.03 | seebs | Huh, this is interesting. |
| 06:36.20 | seebs | I have a whole lot of quests (like, 21 crafting dailies) and I visibly lose about three frames every time I complete one of the items for them. |
| 06:37.12 | seebs | May be related to having three quest loot bags I haven't looted yet, because the freeze always happens during the animation of trying to call attention to that. |
| 08:11.38 | seebs | <English>Carmintium Bar</English> |
| 08:11.44 | seebs | <English>Refines Iron Ore into Iron Bars.</English> |
| 08:11.51 | seebs | ... I am suspecting that the "Description" field is not used. |
| 08:13.21 | seebs | Huh, turns out a lot of lower-level crafting recipes do use only one material. Hmmm. |
| 08:14.15 | seebs | And there are gathering quests which really do want bars as an output, so I can't just ignore the possibility of a quest wanting one of the "intermediate" objects. |
| 08:14.31 | seebs | The conceptual distinction between "basically fungible materials" and "things I care about" is sort of tricky here. |
| 08:50.45 | *** join/#riftuidev Cairenn (~Owner@MMOI/Administratrix/Cairenn) |
| 08:50.45 | *** mode/#riftuidev [+o Cairenn] by ChanServ |
| 09:46.11 | seebs | Eventual solution reached: Do alternating passes of "mark off everything I have" and "do one pass of conversion to recipes for everything that's left" until the latter pass fails to do make any changes. At this point I have done the best possible job of finding materials. |
| 11:48.40 | Ivnedar | nice, Wild Growth has been changed |
| 11:48.43 | Ivnedar | it's now "Wild Growth " |
| 11:48.45 | Ivnedar | ... |
| 11:48.50 | Ivnedar | all all the string parsing stuff can't see it :D |
| 17:34.42 | Thorarin | -.- |
| 17:49.23 | *** join/#riftuidev seebs (~seebs@home.seebs.net) |
| 17:49.23 | *** mode/#riftuidev [+o seebs] by ChanServ |
| 19:07.58 | *** join/#riftuidev Imhothar (~Imhothar@ppp-188-174-24-116.dynamic.mnet-online.de) |
| 19:21.04 | *** join/#riftuidev Imhothar (~Imhothar@ppp-188-174-24-116.dynamic.mnet-online.de) |
| 20:23.40 | *** join/#riftuidev Imhothar_ (~Imhothar@ppp-188-174-24-116.dynamic.mnet-online.de) |
| 22:13.08 | *** join/#riftuidev Noshei (~quassel@c-24-9-171-99.hsd1.co.comcast.net) |
| 22:35.57 | seebs | I posted another suggestion list. Zorba, any notion how easy-or-hard it would be to have a Command.Chat.Log() which can set logging on or off specifically (not just toggle it), and perhaps even specify a filename? |
| 22:36.11 | seebs | I would SO love to just have a startup addon do something to the effect of: |
| 22:36.32 | seebs | Command.Chat.Log(os.date('%Y-%m-%d') .. '.txt', true) |
| 22:40.30 | Noshei | seebs: there is a Inspect.Social.Friend.List() |
| 22:40.36 | seebs | There is? |
| 22:40.38 | seebs | ... |
| 22:40.39 | Noshei | yup |
| 22:40.43 | seebs | Huh. |
| 22:41.06 | seebs | I could at least, then, make an addon which lets you know whether a given user is on a friends list when you don't want them, or not on it when you do. |
| 22:41.13 | Noshei | and Command.Social.Friend.Add, and Command.Social.Ignore.Add |
| 22:41.17 | seebs | Oh. |
| 22:41.19 | seebs | ... |
| 22:41.22 | Noshei | and Command.Social.Friend.Note, Command.Social.Friend.Remove |
| 22:41.23 | seebs | HOW DID I NOT KNOW THAT?!?! |
| 22:41.25 | seebs | *mutter* |
| 22:41.39 | Noshei | Inspect.Social.Ignore.List |
| 22:41.40 | seebs | Wait. |
| 22:41.42 | seebs | What. |
| 22:41.46 | Noshei | Inspect.Social.Friend.Detail |
| 22:41.46 | seebs | Command.Social.Ignore.Note |
| 22:41.50 | seebs | Command.Social.Friend.Note |
| 22:41.53 | seebs | ... Are these DIFFERENT? |
| 22:41.53 | Noshei | Inspect.Social.Ignore.Detail |
| 22:42.00 | seebs | And how did I... what. |
| 22:42.01 | Noshei | yes |
| 22:42.18 | seebs | Zorba! I demand that you stop using your mind control rays. |
| 22:42.27 | Noshei | lol |
| 22:42.31 | seebs | So the existing player notes are... friend/ignore only, not general? |
| 22:42.41 | Noshei | yes |
| 22:42.48 | seebs | So if I /friend someone *and* /ignore them, I can have two different notes? |
| 22:42.52 | Noshei | they show up when you use the detail inspect |
| 22:42.56 | seebs | Hmm. |
| 22:42.59 | Noshei | doubtful |
| 22:43.05 | seebs | Now I have to go do science. |
| 22:43.25 | seebs | Also I have to make an addon that shares notes and stuff between characters, and possibly between accounts. |
| 22:43.45 | seebs | I sort of want a way to indicate "please consider these two accounts to be the same, but not this other account". |
| 22:44.04 | seebs | Because I want my accounts to share stuff, but if I have to log in on Jesse's to fix something, he should have his own addon settings, etc. |
| 22:44.11 | seebs | Junctions sorta do that. |
| 22:44.23 | seebs | Now I'm super curious, though, how long have we had this social stuff? |
| 22:44.35 | seebs | Because I totally looked for it at one point and didn't see it. |
| 22:44.37 | Noshei | long time |
| 22:44.43 | Noshei | well over a year I would guess |
| 22:45.00 | Noshei | I've had the friends list integrated into EasyMail for a while |
| 22:46.30 | Noshei | 08-22-2012 is when ZorbaBeta posted patch notes for adding *.Guild.* *.Social.* and *.Title.* |
| 22:46.54 | seebs | Oh, well. |
| 22:46.57 | seebs | Uhm. |
| 22:47.02 | seebs | *cough* crucia *cough* |
| 22:47.06 | seebs | Musta been mind control. |
| 22:47.16 | Noshei | lol |
| 22:47.42 | seebs | Someone was talking in chat about RP and spies and such, and I pointed out that Crucia makes it easier to reconcile thoughtful spying character concepts with slaughter-everything MMO player mindsets. |
| 22:47.51 | seebs | Everything is probably a Crucia spy. Kill it just in case. |
| 22:48.50 | Noshei | lol |
| 22:49.48 | seebs | Noshei, did you ever get any explanation or feedback on why they thought that post was "trolling"? |
| 22:50.22 | Noshei | "Our goal is to create a healthy community that is fun and welcoming to all, with as little inappropriate behavior as possible: this is one of our ways to discourage it." - thats what was in the PM they sent |
| 22:50.42 | seebs | That's... not very informative as to why they interpreted that specific post as trolling. |
| 22:51.00 | Noshei | yup |
| 22:51.09 | seebs | It was Tyrannos, right? |
| 22:51.17 | Noshei | yeah |
| 22:51.35 | seebs | Would you mind if I dropped him a PM to ask about that? I am wondering if he just read the tone wrong, in which case a friendly PM would be more useful than an infraction, MHO. |
| 22:51.54 | Noshei | I'm fine with it. |
| 22:54.23 | Noshei | Ivnedar: does the local table for a boss encounter need to be unique within kbm? |
| 22:58.55 | seebs | ... Speaking of things I missed. |
| 22:59.01 | seebs | * The damage and HP of all mobs in the old Telara world have been increased, except for raid mobs. |
| 22:59.05 | seebs | ^-- I did not notice this. |
| 22:59.13 | seebs | And I think that is the first time I've ever seen an MMO make something harder. |
| 23:01.16 | Imhothar_ | Use the power of ApiBrowser ;) |
| 23:01.35 | seebs | I use DocExporter. |
| 23:01.44 | Imhothar_ | and you missed stuff |
| 23:01.45 | seebs | Although I should probably redo my rift/live docs because they have LibPGC in them. |
| 23:01.57 | seebs | True. But not because it's not displayed, just because I'm inattentive. |
| 23:04.01 | seebs | Huh. Noshei, your sig refers to gadgets, what fancy gadgetry did you make? |
| 23:04.34 | Noshei | what do you mean seebs? |
| 23:05.01 | seebs | You have a link to "Noshei's Gadgets", which I assume are additional gadgets for use with the Gadgets addon? |
| 23:05.10 | Noshei | yes |
| 23:05.22 | Noshei | some additional templates |
| 23:05.45 | Noshei | some with extra functionality that isn't in other templates |
| 23:05.54 | seebs | Ooh, neat. |
| 23:06.14 | Noshei | been planning on doing a template similar to http://www.wowinterface.com/downloads/info16068-RealUI.html at some point |
| 23:06.29 | Noshei | for player and target frames |
| 23:06.42 | seebs | Oooh, cool. |
| 23:06.46 | Noshei | was waiting on canvas to do it though, so I can do the cool arrow thing |
| 23:07.00 | seebs | I am very fussy about unit frames, and basically they all suck for me. |
| 23:07.13 | Noshei | just havent gotten around to actually doing it though |
| 23:07.38 | seebs | Most unit frames are done by people who want More Pretty, which for me translates to Can't See. |
| 23:07.39 | Noshei | well if you have an idea of what you want I could probably work something out for you for gadgets |
| 23:08.54 | seebs | In theory I probably could, I just haven't. |
| 23:09.29 | seebs | I used to do okay with ... *thinks* I think it was Shadowed Unit Frames, back in the day, but the amount of configuration it took to get there was insane. |
| 23:10.05 | seebs | Bars are nice, I also want large/readable numbers, and I want the bars to be very close to untextured. |
| 23:10.21 | Noshei | yeah |
| 23:10.32 | seebs | And I tend to want things like energy/charge/mana to be large enough to see clearly, not tiny little lines under the big green bar. |
| 23:10.41 | seebs | I actually sort of like the "bar changes color with health" model. |
| 23:11.05 | Noshei | have you seen my ui? |
| 23:11.06 | seebs | And I've also liked some that did a red-yellow-green bar where the bar had a fixed texture, and as it got shorter you saw less of the texture. |
| 23:11.07 | seebs | I have not. |
| 23:11.10 | Noshei | http://www.twitch.tv/noshei/c/3260469 |
| 23:11.26 | seebs | I should totally set up a twitch.tv account and post video of me playing MMOs. |
| 23:11.32 | seebs | Which consists of standing in a corner with an editor up. |
| 23:11.39 | Noshei | lol |
| 23:12.09 | seebs | I actually have written nearly-complete addons in RiftRC. |
| 23:12.16 | Noshei | if you cant see my hp/mana bars, then you have to be blind |
| 23:12.36 | seebs | Yeah, that's not bad. |
| 23:12.37 | Noshei | though the raid frames are pretty small |
| 23:12.59 | seebs | You have a thing that looks like the image from the Rift mousepad on screen. |
| 23:13.17 | Noshei | on the left lower corner? |
| 23:13.19 | seebs | Yeah. |
| 23:13.37 | Noshei | it is from one of their desktop wallpapers |
| 23:13.45 | Noshei | just use it to cover up chat |
| 23:13.58 | seebs | So, those bars: You notice how there's some amount of horizontal variance in the color of health bars? |
| 23:14.07 | Noshei | yeah |
| 23:14.12 | Noshei | not your thing? |
| 23:14.17 | seebs | Like, on the target's bar, the part right around the end of his name is brighter than the parts to either side? |
| 23:14.29 | Noshei | yeah |
| 23:14.32 | seebs | That bugs me. |
| 23:14.44 | seebs | I want *flat* colors. Except I don't mind beveled edges. |
| 23:14.53 | seebs | But the main body, if it's textured, I have more trouble with it. |
| 23:15.33 | seebs | On the big health/mana bars, the horizontal (perpendicular to bar direction) coloration is less of a problem, but it'd still make it harder for me to see. |
| 23:15.40 | seebs | I sometimes really wonder how the hell I function. |
| 23:15.49 | Noshei | all of that is customizable with gadgets, though I need to updage my templates to be able to change the texture in game |
| 23:16.22 | Noshei | the big bars are vertical fill |
| 23:16.43 | seebs | That is sorta neat. |
| 23:17.01 | Noshei | look later in the video when I'm taking damage or have less mana to see |
| 23:17.08 | seebs | I have a thing that gives arc-shaped gadgets so I am inside health and mana parentheses, it's been working for me. |
| 23:17.18 | Noshei | like 1:20 or so in |
| 23:17.34 | seebs | Yeah, I was watching them go up and down some. Very visible. |
| 23:17.56 | Noshei | yup |
| 23:18.16 | Noshei | as a tank I need to know where my hp is at, and when I heal I need to know where my mana is at |
| 23:18.18 | Ivnedar | a few addons came out that managed friend/ignore lists across alts |
| 23:18.33 | Ivnedar | so if you add something to one of the lists on one toon, logging into an alt will add it there |
| 23:19.02 | Noshei | Ivnedar: you by chance have the type for Proteus? |
| 23:19.09 | Ivnedar | nope, sorry |
| 23:19.41 | Noshei | ah darn, have to see if I have it in one of my logger addons then |
| 23:20.09 | Ivnedar | I might extend my buff/ability id tracker to track mob types too |
| 23:25.30 | Noshei | Ivnedar: you don't by chance have pbb cleared to proteus do you? |
| 23:25.45 | Ivnedar | only eggtenders killed |
| 23:25.54 | Noshei | thats all you need |
| 23:26.35 | Noshei | any chance you would mind summoning my alt into your save? |
| 23:27.07 | Ivnedar | I'm not going to be anywhere near a client for 14 hours or so |
| 23:27.14 | Noshei | ah darn |
| 23:27.44 | Ivnedar | I wonder if I could get the client installed on a laptop here, hrrm |
| 23:28.11 | Ivnedar | you wanted to stealth forward to proteus? |
| 23:28.20 | Noshei | was just gonna soul walk it |
| 23:30.41 | Ivnedar | guild leader might be on, checking |
| 23:31.18 | Noshei | im trying crossraids chat, see what I get |
| 23:32.13 | Ivnedar | ok |
| 23:33.02 | Ivnedar | Interesting that the mobile client auto corrects to KBM |
| 23:33.15 | Noshei | lol |
| 23:33.33 | Noshei | if you get someone my alt is Silvanoshei@greybriar |
| 23:53.00 | *** join/#riftuidev seebs (~seebs@home.seebs.net) |
| 23:53.01 | *** mode/#riftuidev [+o seebs] by ChanServ |