| 00:12.16 | seebs | Huh. |
| 00:12.26 | seebs | So, idle question. Zorba, you might know, although it might take research. |
| 00:13.03 | seebs | Are discoveries (shard firsts, etc.) tied permanently to a character? Like, if I get a shard first, then transfer to another shard or get renamed, does anything still know that this specific character is the one who got that discovery? |
| 00:13.29 | Ivnedar | character@shard as it was when it happened |
| 00:13.48 | Ivnedar | if you transfer, and the first hasn't happened on the new shard yet, you'll get it there as your new character@shard |
| 00:14.28 | seebs | Yeah. |
| 00:14.50 | seebs | But if someone else goes to that shard and picks that name, does the database have a way to distinguish between their character and mine, and know that mine is the one who got it? |
| 00:15.30 | seebs | The XML doesn't have enough information for that, but the underlying database might also have unique character IDs or something. |
| 00:15.45 | Ivnedar | you can see how many discoveries you've had in the client, I haven't checked if that number changes at all when you transfer |
| 00:15.45 | seebs | Reason I ask is, it occurred to me: It would be sort of cool if a permaban also yanked any and all shard firsts your characters had gotten, and opened them up for other people. |
| 00:15.58 | Ivnedar | probably the easiest way to tell |
| 00:15.59 | ZorbaBeta | I actually don't know, sorry |
| 00:16.07 | ZorbaBeta | it probably includes a character ID - we're pretty good at embedding those into absolutely everything - but it may not |
| 00:16.22 | seebs | That would be a neat way to give a more significant Actual Punishment for some of the cheaters and such. |
| 00:16.31 | Ivnedar | and we believe that character id stays the same after a transfer? |
| 00:16.51 | seebs | I assume it does, otherwise people could avoid GMs by trolling and transferring or something. :P |
| 00:17.46 | ZorbaBeta | well, the account ID wouldn't change in that case, and that's often included as well ;) |
| 00:19.09 | Ivnedar | pretty sure the relic cape recipes were showing one character transferring between shards and getting (and keeping) shard firsts wherever they went |
| 00:19.44 | Ivnedar | if someone is permabanned, their characters would still exist I assume |
| 00:19.54 | Ivnedar | so those names would be forever blocked? |
| 00:20.31 | Ivnedar | You know what would be amusing? A jail shard. |
| 00:20.55 | Ivnedar | People who do bad things have their account flagged to only let them into the jail shard, all their toons are transferred there |
| 00:21.18 | Ivnedar | maybe ramp the difficulty up a bit somehow :P |
| 00:21.24 | Ivnedar | some of them would love it |
| 00:22.08 | seebs | FF14 has a jail GMs can transfer you to. |
| 00:22.21 | Ivnedar | name it purgatory |
| 00:22.36 | seebs | I think Rift would benefit some from stealing ideas like GW2's thing where if you get banned, a giant cloaked figure with a scythe appears and one-shots you. |
| 00:22.37 | Noshei | lol |
| 00:22.57 | Ivnedar | better yet, if you get banned, your character is permanently stuck in stocks in the middle of tempest bay |
| 00:23.04 | Ivnedar | only has access to /say |
| 00:23.14 | Ivnedar | and is there even if they're not logged in |
| 00:23.30 | Ivnedar | interactive items give spoiled fruit to throw at them |
| 00:24.19 | Ivnedar | that might work better for the 3 day type bans |
| 00:24.30 | Ivnedar | for 3 days, whenever you log in, you're stuck in the stocks |
| 00:49.10 | seebs | The traditional Jail implementation is that you get a timer *which only ticks while you are logged in*. |
| 00:49.18 | seebs | And ideally, not if you are AFK. |
| 00:49.27 | Ivnedar | that'd work with the stocks stuff |
| 00:49.40 | Ivnedar | "24 hours /played in the stocks" |
| 00:50.04 | Ivnedar | for the longer bans, but not permabans, they could work off their ban on the purgatory shard |
| 00:50.09 | Ivnedar | and buy their way back |
| 00:52.48 | seebs | I sorta dislike any option where there is actually-playing involved, because then it's not "you can't play". |
| 01:00.00 | seebs | Just to check: To run two clients "safely", I make Interface folders in both client directories, and don't have a ~/Documents/RIFT directory, right? |
| 01:00.35 | Noshei | you can run 2 clients without any changes to where it saves stuff |
| 01:00.41 | seebs | I thought there were issues with savedvariables race conditions? |
| 01:01.07 | Noshei | not that I've seen. And there shouldn't be unless you are using a global saved variable |
| 01:01.22 | ZorbaBeta | it'll be an issue with global or per-shard savedvariables |
| 01:01.23 | seebs | I am. And furthermore, I have a junction set up so the two account subdirs are the same directory. |
| 01:01.32 | ZorbaBeta | depending on how much you care about consistent data, of course |
| 01:01.41 | seebs | But I think if there's no ~/Documents/RIFT, and there is a <gamedir>/Interface, then it uses that instead. |
| 01:01.50 | Noshei | should only be an issue with global, since everything else is based on account |
| 01:02.01 | ZorbaBeta | ah yeah, forgot about that, didn't end up doing per-shard-only |
| 01:02.24 | seebs | I actually want per-shard-only, but the junction thing works well enough. |
| 01:02.33 | seebs | But yes, I do have globals, so I probably need to avoid the clashes. |
| 01:03.15 | seebs | So if <gamedir>/Interface is good enough, I can work with that and do what I want without having to set up a second computer. |
| 01:03.26 | seebs | I wanna debug New Features that use the channel messaging stuff. |
| 01:05.44 | Ivnedar | setup rift.cfg to point to a different documents directory for each client, profit |
| 01:06.14 | seebs | Wait, you can do that? |
| 01:06.18 | Ivnedar | yes |
| 01:06.22 | seebs | Oh geeze. |
| 01:06.29 | seebs | I didn't even notice that. WHEN DID THAT HAPPEN? |
| 01:06.35 | Ivnedar | There's a DocumentsPath or DocumentsDirectory or something like that |
| 01:06.38 | seebs | Yeah. |
| 01:06.43 | Ivnedar | when they moved from client folder to documents |
| 01:06.45 | seebs | Of course, rift.cfg is a shortcut to a single cfg file, but I can fix that. |
| 01:06.55 | seebs | I thought it was somewhat later, because early on we had these elaborate workarounds. |
| 01:06.57 | Ivnedar | yeah, remove the shortcut, replace with real file |
| 01:07.16 | Ivnedar | I was using it at SL beta, so it was before that |
| 01:07.20 | Ivnedar | I hadn't needed it before then |
| 01:08.05 | Ivnedar | the alpha/beta client was using the live version's rift.cfg, which meant it was also using the same documents area |
| 01:08.21 | Ivnedar | really annoying if you're wanting different configs/addons in each environment |
| 01:08.27 | Ivnedar | pts client at least uses its own areas |
| 01:08.50 | Ivnedar | bbl, lunch! |
| 01:10.24 | seebs | Well, this'll be a lot easier to maintain, anyway. |
| 01:16.14 | seebs | Heh. |
| 01:16.26 | seebs | Turns out /exportui still uses game directory. |
| 01:16.33 | Noshei | yes |
| 01:16.42 | Noshei | and/exportkeybindings |
| 01:19.41 | seebs | And the thing where you can't make a saved UI express a UI scale of 100% is still there. |
| 01:24.29 | seebs | Huh, that's odd. |
| 01:24.55 | seebs | Documents directory is only seeming to work for some things, and "addons themselves" do not seem to be one of them. |
| 01:26.31 | seebs | So both load addons from users/<me>/Documents/RIFT/Interface, even though one has DocumentsDirectory pointed at Documents/RIFT2. |
| 01:28.17 | seebs | I am wondering whether the patcher is just automatically looking in appdata/roaming or whatever, and the shortcut was actually not used, and I have to modify the shortcut to the patcher to tell it what rift.cfg to use. |
| 01:28.37 | Noshei | oh Ivnedar here is my current version of volan http://pastebin.com/RSNJTcn8 |
| 01:28.51 | Noshei | added in tracking for everything in phase 1 except stomp |
| 01:29.06 | Noshei | and started working on phase 2, though we haven't seen much of it yet. |
| 01:29.32 | seebs | Hmm. It does appear that changes to rift's configuration get saved in appdata, not in the local rift.cfg. |
| 01:33.38 | seebs | Hmm. Any clues on ways to tell Rift to use a different config file? riftpatchlive is strangely light on documentation. |
| 01:38.45 | seebs | Zorba, you might have cause to do that. Can the patcher be told to use a different rift.cfg? It appears to always look in appdata/roaming, never in the actual game directory, or something. |
| 01:38.56 | Noshei | ZorbaBeta: do the new ability id's not stay consistent? |
| 01:39.04 | Noshei | the ones with A at the start |
| 01:39.29 | seebs | Ah-hah. |
| 01:39.36 | seebs | ... no, nevermind. |
| 01:39.55 | seebs | It just creates a new one if I nuke the one in appdata/roaming. |
| 01:41.14 | seebs | So I can't find a way to have two different rift.cfg files which point to different documents directories, because the launcher ignores the one in the game directory. Presumably there's a command line argument or something, but I can find no docs of it. |
| 01:41.24 | Ivnedar | hrrm, maybe that's changed |
| 01:42.26 | seebs | I can't find any references to this except stuff from ISBoxer and from some botting forums. |
| 01:44.01 | Ivnedar | hrrm, unless there's an option to pass to the launcher for where it is now |
| 01:44.06 | seebs | I assume there is. |
| 01:44.14 | seebs | Because that's the kind of thing you'd pretty much have to have. |
| 01:44.27 | Ivnedar | there a heaps of options to rift.exe, but they're under the control of launcher |
| 01:44.59 | seebs | Yeah. |
| 01:50.40 | seebs | I can find evidence that riftpatchlive is looking in Some Specified Directory for rift.cfg. |
| 01:51.21 | seebs | But I can't figure out what the launcher's arguments would be called, assuming it even has any. |
| 01:51.31 | seebs | .... oh INTERESTING. |
| 01:51.38 | seebs | I am pretty sure the Rift launcher is explicitly checking for WINE. |
| 01:51.39 | Ivnedar | I think ZorbaBeta would be the only one who could answer that here |
| 01:52.05 | Ivnedar | the arg list that launcher passes to rift is interesting |
| 01:52.06 | seebs | Hmm. There's some bits, like "-steam" or "-simple". |
| 01:54.04 | seebs | Unless -channel is somehow a thing to specify alternatives, I don't see a way to do this, but maybe it checks environment variables. |
| 01:56.06 | seebs | Okay, this is too complicated. I'm just gonna copy Interface directories for now. |
| 02:02.42 | seebs | ... And that didn't work either. gah. |
| 02:04.42 | seebs | Interesting, rifterrorhandler has a -userconfig=rift.cfg option. |
| 02:05.00 | Ivnedar | guessing that doesn't work on launcher |
| 02:05.10 | seebs | Well, right now, my problem is: |
| 02:05.19 | seebs | There is no <Documents>/RIFT/Interface |
| 02:05.29 | seebs | There are, however, <install1>/Interface and <install2>/Interface |
| 02:05.41 | seebs | ... but both copies are picking addons up from <install1>/Interface, apparently. |
| 02:05.50 | Ivnedar | O_o |
| 02:05.51 | Ivnedar | how odd |
| 02:06.00 | seebs | gah |
| 02:06.18 | seebs | I'm now something like an hour and a half into "it would be more efficient to just run the client twice than to run two computers". |
| 02:06.33 | seebs | It's especially frustrating because it *ALMOST* works, because *ALMOST* all the parts needed are in place. |
| 02:07.45 | seebs | This is getting weirder by the minute. |
| 02:08.05 | seebs | In the second client, I asked it to open the addon directory. ... oh! |
| 02:08.19 | seebs | I just realized. I changed the version in the toc, but not in the lua, didn't I. |
| 02:08.28 | seebs | Ayup. Nevermind. Interface dirs are working. |
| 02:50.25 | ZorbaBeta | noshei, new ability ID's should be consistent about as much as the old ability ID's were |
| 02:50.33 | ZorbaBeta | that is to say, "consistent as long as the designers don't change 'em" |
| 02:51.33 | Ivnedar | I'd still love ability ids for boss mechanics ;) |
| 02:52.30 | Noshei | yeah my log just got restarted for some reason |
| 02:52.43 | Ivnedar | saved vars empties out? |
| 02:52.50 | Ivnedar | mine does that every so often for my ability id tracking addon |
| 03:03.11 | seebs | http://forums.riftgame.com/technical-discussions/tech-support/401835-pvp-glitch.html <-- oh, fascinating |
| 03:03.27 | seebs | Being in IA and PvP at the same time can result in Strange Things. |
| 03:04.54 | Ivnedar | heh heh, I've had that happen in the past |
| 03:05.06 | Ivnedar | black garden is interesting |
| 03:05.20 | Ivnedar | picked up fang, neither side could damage me, both sides healed me |
| 03:08.28 | Noshei | lol |
| 03:08.35 | Noshei | did both sides get points? |
| 03:08.43 | Ivnedar | just mine |
| 03:08.48 | Ivnedar | we won, funnily enough |
| 03:50.29 | Amadeus- | something else to bitch about with the new pvp matchmaking system: when you're leveling up an alt, and need help winning ...you're at an even great disadvantage becuase the low rank folks end up together with the higher ranks on the other side (since the system puts similar players together.) |
| 03:50.48 | Amadeus- | I've tried doing a few today with my new level 60 mage ...and it's just been constant one-sided |
| 03:59.15 | seebs | Huh. I have forgotten when/how I got a thing to make junctions under Windows 7 |
| 04:05.29 | seebs | Ahh, apparently one is built in, I just had to use cmd.exe to invoke it from mingw. |
| 04:31.26 | seebs | I do wonder why patron buffs only count up after you've logged into an alt while subbed. |
| 05:36.37 | seebs | when did Rift get a little movie with voiceovers explaining the soul tree? |
| 05:36.49 | Ivnedar | free to play launch I thought |
| 05:37.13 | seebs | I never saw it before. It may be that I didn't click on the right thing. |
| 05:37.32 | seebs | Wait, now, this is new, I think. Because this refers to the "encyclopedia", which is new since then. |
| 05:38.42 | seebs | There is a design limitation/bug/feature such that you can redo one of the early quests, allowing you to collect a second level five quest dagger. |
| 06:11.56 | seebs | Huh. You can see what channels are in a console window, but the color settings are not visible, nor can you set things. So there's no way to make an addon share console settings between characters or something similar. |
| 06:24.41 | seebs | Apparently, part of Tempest Bay's floor stopped working and many people have fallen through it. |
| 06:24.58 | Ivnedar | :D |
| 06:25.07 | Ivnedar | did they change their video quality down? |
| 06:25.30 | Ivnedar | there used to be some sections where the floor textures had gaps at particular quality levels |
| 06:25.37 | Ivnedar | and you could fall between them :D |
| 06:27.05 | Thorarin | 0.o |
| 07:51.41 | seebs | Man, Rift's crashed for me more in the last couple of weeks than it did in the first year or so I played it. |
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| 14:01.06 | *** topic/#riftuidev is http://pastebin.com for code snippets || PIL: http://www.lua.org/pil || Rift AddOn Policy: http://t.co/7xXd4LL || AddOn Wiki: wiki.riftui.com/ || RiftUI.com || rift.curse.com || this channel is logged, via purl || Rift goes F2P, June 12th, http://www.riftgame.com/free |
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| 14:05.43 | *** topic/#riftuidev is http://pastebin.com for code snippets || PIL: http://www.lua.org/pil || Rift AddOn Policy: http://t.co/7xXd4LL || AddOn Wiki: wiki.riftui.com/ || RiftUI.com || rift.curse.com || this channel is logged, via purl || Rift goes F2P, June 12th, http://www.riftgame.com/free |
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| 19:19.25 | seebs | Someone on the forums claims to be running the 64-bit version of the Rift client. |
| 19:27.18 | Noshei | lol |
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| 20:52.23 | Noshei | loving these new artifact vials |
| 20:52.48 | Noshei | collected about 120 ish artifacts toway with 2 vials |
| 20:53.01 | Noshei | so in 1 hours of hunting them |
| 20:53.31 | Noshei | though I had 88 in one go and 40ish in the other 30 minute vial |
| 21:00.58 | seebs | Not bad. |
| 21:01.18 | seebs | I had characters I forgot to log in on after subscribing, so they weren't collecting charges. Is a silly bug. |
| 21:01.34 | seebs | Interestingly, it isn't enough to log in on them once after the patron system exists, but if you resub, you have to go log into everyone again. |
| 21:01.58 | seebs | Meh. I have this neat new idea for a feature for Merisioux and I'm too sick to code. |
| 21:10.09 | Noshei | that sucks |
| 21:15.36 | seebs | Well, I mean. I guess in theory YAY DAY OFF FROM WORK. |
| 21:15.48 | seebs | One downside of an old house in Minnesota in Winter: You *cannot* get the air moist. |
| 21:29.14 | Noshei | I know how that is seebs Colorado is very dry in winter |
| 21:29.24 | seebs | You in CO? |
| 21:29.28 | Noshei | yeah |
| 21:29.37 | seebs | I like CO. My mom lived in Denver for a while, and I have friends there. |
| 21:30.14 | seebs | I know a couple of guys there who got their civil union, then found out that the supreme court ruling requires them to go to another state to get "married" as such to get the tax benefits. They were pretty unhappy. |
| 21:34.52 | Noshei | colorado is pretty progressive on most things, but gay marriage doesn't seem to be one of them. |
| 21:35.56 | seebs | I am told that the civil union law ended up being stronger than it would have been due to inept plotting. |
| 21:36.09 | seebs | The people opposed to it demanded various concessions and limitations, got them, then killed the bill anyway. |
| 21:36.26 | seebs | So next year, when the votes were available to win either way, the concessions were all removed. |
| 21:36.52 | seebs | MN may go down as the only state ever to have a "define marriage in constitution as only male/female" thing make it to a public ballot, then get voted down at the polls. |
| 21:50.29 | seebs | I saw the text "what does Fortran use?" in a programming discussion, and thought "ring-a-ding..." |
| 21:50.32 | seebs | I think I am pretty sick. |
| 22:23.52 | Noshei | ./doctor |
| 22:24.28 | seebs | I am thinking about it. I do usually get over colds, but sometimes I get nasty lingering ones that turn into bronchitis. |