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| 00:02.05 | seebs | Oh, I thought of a question I had pending. Is there a sane way to find out the current character's "real" gender -- as in, what it would be without any effects like sheeping that may alter it? |
| 00:06.17 | Ivnedar | if you can maintain a list of buffs that change gender, you could look for what buffs are up and return unknown if any of them are |
| 00:07.11 | seebs | And I can't just assume that it's unchanging, because hey, things change. |
| 00:07.26 | seebs | I have a character whose gender changed since character creation. |
| 00:07.55 | seebs | Being an RPer at heart, I've declared that this is an in-character change. |
| 00:13.47 | Ivnedar | http://kingjamesprogramming.tumblr.com/ |
| 00:13.51 | Ivnedar | much amusement there |
| 00:13.58 | Ivnedar | Posts generated by a Markov chain trained on the King James Bible and Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs. |
| 00:15.34 | seebs | ... |
| 00:28.38 | Imhothar | A time to rend, and Kleene, come into the house. |
| 00:28.41 | Imhothar | awesome |
| 00:29.05 | Ivnedar | The global environment is chosen here, because this is the will of God. |
| 00:29.07 | Ivnedar | I like that one :) |
| 00:30.03 | Imhothar | that's just great |
| 00:30.10 | Imhothar | And these three men, Noah, Daniel, and Job were in it, and all the abominations that be done in (log n) steps. |
| 00:30.48 | Ivnedar | More precisely, if P and Q are polynomials, let O1 be the order of blessed |
| 00:30.54 | Ivnedar | O(1) is definitely the order of blessed |
| 00:31.05 | Imhothar | yeah |
| 00:35.04 | Imhothar | Think of the diagram as a maze in which a marble is rolling. |
| 00:36.26 | Imhothar | Syntactic sugar causes cancer of the semicolon. |
| 00:36.30 | Imhothar | this is gold |
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| 01:30.18 | Noshei | ZorbaTHut: any idea why I am getting \009 and \9 for a tab in a scring when it is stored in a saved variable file? |
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| 04:14.44 | Noshei | ZorbaTHut: another issue with IG on the volan fight |
| 04:15.05 | Noshei | he does a mechanic called Spine Shatter, where he puts some pulsing circles on the ground |
| 04:15.39 | Noshei | The tanks have to run into them and soak some damage. Had an issue tonight where the graphic will disappear for no obvious reason. |
| 04:16.06 | Ivnedar | tanks should be playing with their eyes closed anyway! |
| 04:16.12 | Ivnedar | It's helping them learn zen tanking |
| 04:16.36 | Noshei | All other graphics remain, if it disappears it will stay gone if you move as well. |
| 04:17.03 | Ivnedar | I noticed last night that there are a few places in FT that if you put the camera there, players and mobs all disappear |
| 04:17.08 | Noshei | doesn't seem to matter which circle it is (there are 8) |
| 04:17.18 | Ivnedar | mob names stay visible though oddly enough |
| 04:17.27 | Ivnedar | going up the ramp to Zaviel was the worst for it |
| 04:17.41 | Ivnedar | It's like there are invisible walls going up that ramp |
| 04:19.18 | Noshei | I'll try to get a video of it for you ZorbaTHut |
| 04:24.32 | Amadeus- | ZorbaTHut, why is it that carnage quests sometimes appear on the quest tracker...even when I've unchecked it in the quest log window? |
| 04:24.52 | Amadeus- | checking and unchecking it will make it go away again ..but I don't understand why that gets fouled up |
| 04:40.21 | seebs | Did nameplates always show energy/power for enemies? |
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| 06:49.30 | ZorbaTHut | noshei, you'll have to check the lua sourcecode to be sure - it's the "%q" format specifier - but \9 is used when the next character can't be confused as part of a hex string, and \009 is used otherwise, as I recall. |
| 06:50.11 | Noshei | ZorbaTHut: I used "\t" in the code |
| 06:50.19 | ZorbaTHut | ivnedar, interestingly, the frozen tempest glitch is one I'm already focusing on :V I know what's happening, but it's complicated |
| 06:50.50 | ZorbaTHut | noshei, it's possible the %q format specifier isn't smart enough to recognize those standard shortcuts |
| 06:51.22 | Noshei | also tried it with just an actual tab in the code with the same result |
| 06:51.30 | Imhothar | or it just doesn't care |
| 06:51.34 | Noshei | ^ |
| 06:52.05 | Imhothar | since \9 and \t are the same |
| 06:52.30 | Imhothar | though it would be more consistent if it used \009 all the time |
| 06:54.02 | ZorbaTHut | http://repo.or.cz/w/luajit-2.0.git/blob_plain/HEAD:/src/lib_string.c check the "addquoted" function :) |
| 06:56.58 | Imhothar | hm yeah it only expands to \009 to the next char is a digit |
| 06:57.02 | Imhothar | guess it tries to save space |
| 06:57.15 | Imhothar | *if |
| 06:57.45 | Noshei | that would make sense, cause it is \009 before a number and \9 before a character |
| 06:58.09 | Imhothar | that code is ugly as hell |
| 06:58.26 | Imhothar | I would not like to be the maintainer |
| 06:58.50 | Imhothar | omg a GOTO |
| 06:58.50 | ZorbaTHut | it's densely-coded efficient C, different constraints apply when you're working in that space |
| 06:58.52 | Imhothar | !!! |
| 06:59.12 | Imhothar | "densely-coded" doesn't make code more efficient |
| 06:59.15 | ZorbaTHut | the maintainer is Mike Pall who is basically a madman genius. as far as I'm concerned, if he wants to write nasty code, he is welcome to do so |
| 06:59.16 | Imhothar | it only hurts your eyes more |
| 06:59.58 | Imhothar | the classic Lua code doesn't look much better |
| 07:00.13 | Imhothar | and it's a litered with macros |
| 07:00.18 | Imhothar | macros everywhere |
| 07:00.32 | Thorarin | ZOMG :< |
| 07:00.33 | Imhothar | even under the bed |
| 07:00.42 | Thorarin | It is quite nasty :P |
| 07:01.23 | ZorbaTHut | yeah I get the sense he doesn't entirely trust compilers to inline the right stuff |
| 07:01.47 | Imhothar | multiple statements on a single line |
| 07:02.01 | Imhothar | that's as if he deliberately tried to confuse all readers |
| 07:02.14 | Thorarin | (c * 205) >> 11 |
| 07:02.20 | Thorarin | Wonder what the hell that does tbh :) |
| 07:02.32 | Imhothar | it divides by 2048? |
| 07:02.32 | ZorbaTHut | I think it's a divide by ten :) |
| 07:02.56 | Thorarin | -.- |
| 07:03.08 | ZorbaTHut | but it works only if the input number is in certain bounds |
| 07:03.11 | ZorbaTHut | (which, in this case, it is) |
| 07:03.12 | Imhothar | oh yes with the 205 thing |
| 07:03.17 | ZorbaTHut | so a compiler would never make that optimization |
| 07:04.06 | Imhothar | it's questionable if it's really an "optimization" |
| 07:04.29 | ZorbaTHut | unfortunately, it isn't, it really is an optimization. divide is *incredibly* slow. mult and a shift is much faster |
| 07:04.51 | Imhothar | it used to be. on a pentium |
| 07:05.20 | ZorbaTHut | http://www.agner.org/optimize/instruction_tables.pdf check out page 8 and 9. first numeric column is clock cycles |
| 07:05.50 | ZorbaTHut | that's amd k7, but then you can look down for more examples |
| 07:06.41 | ZorbaTHut | even in the cases where the clock cycles start matching up vaguely, the latency is still far higher :/ |
| 07:07.36 | Noshei | ZorbaTHut: any ideas on the disapopearing mechanic on the Volan fight in IG? |
| 07:08.20 | ZorbaTHut | noshei, unfortunately, nope. if it wasn't raid-wide it might be an indication that your vfx is set too low; if it was raid-wide, I'm not sure |
| 07:09.16 | Noshei | I'm not sure if when one disappears, if it disappears for everyone. I do know that it was happening to all 3 of us tanks |
| 07:09.39 | Noshei | so not isolated to just me |
| 07:09.55 | ZorbaTHut | well, sent it along to our raid tester, though it may be difficult to reproduce |
| 07:10.14 | Noshei | also had more issues with that mechanic today |
| 07:10.47 | seebs | I was under the impression that compilers were smarter than they used to be about things like division. |
| 07:10.58 | seebs | Although the "within certain bounds" kind of thing, a compiler's less likely to do. |
| 07:11.10 | ZorbaTHut | yeah, they're quite clever about it . . . without the "within certain bounds" caveat |
| 07:11.18 | Thorarin | But I doubt multiply/shift optimization is one of them :P |
| 07:11.23 | Noshei | doing raid damamge, when a tank was in the circle (this shouldn't happen). Not doing any damage to the tank at all (as in didn't even show in the combat log). |
| 07:11.27 | ZorbaTHut | and there's no standardized way to express to a compiler "this number will be within this range" |
| 07:12.17 | Noshei | anyways, I'm off to bed, night all |
| 07:12.23 | Thorarin | nn |
| 07:12.30 | ZorbaTHut | and I'm off to work :V cya all |
| 07:12.55 | seebs | Oh, multiply/shift optimizations have been pretty standard in compilers for quite a while. |
| 07:12.56 | Imhothar | technically, with the new attributes you could |
| 07:13.27 | ZorbaTHut | imhothar, remember that luajit is intended to build on a *wide* variety of compilers, many quite obsolete. if it hasn't been standard for a decade, it's not standard enough. :) |
| 07:13.34 | ZorbaTHut | (really gone now ;) ) |
| 07:13.52 | Imhothar | I was speaking general, not LuaJIT |
| 07:14.31 | Imhothar | acnd actually, the compiler can figure it out |
| 07:14.58 | Imhothar | c is a uint32_t but initialized from a uchar, and there are some range checks in the ifs |
| 07:15.10 | Imhothar | and compilers do interval analysis |
| 07:15.19 | Imhothar | so it *can* figure out the range of possible values of c |
| 07:15.21 | Thorarin | Off to work... odd time considering the time zone :P |
| 07:16.14 | Thorarin | Sure, that static analysis is not exactly rocket science :) |
| 07:16.26 | Imhothar | especially if it inlines those is_xxx calls |
| 07:17.12 | Imhothar | there are some interesting talks about "don't help the compiler" |
| 07:17.47 | Imhothar | and many people are still surprised by the optimizations the compiler can figure out |
| 07:18.00 | Thorarin | Unfortunately I mostly work with C#, the compiler isn't this smart :) |
| 07:18.18 | Imhothar | that's the bane of such dynamic languages |
| 07:18.25 | seebs | I note that these days, a bunch of the really important optimizations are done by the CPU. |
| 07:18.39 | Thorarin | The language is not dynamic |
| 07:18.42 | Imhothar | but the interval checks and inlining is still practive in C# |
| 07:18.47 | Thorarin | But JIT is a problem sometimes |
| 07:19.02 | Thorarin | Can't take too long to do that shit :P |
| 07:19.20 | Imhothar | you can do the analysis on the byte code |
| 07:19.43 | Thorarin | Yes... but like I said they mostly want to produce code fast, not fast code :) |
| 07:19.58 | Imhothar | no, the compiler does the analysis on the MSIL when compiling |
| 07:20.37 | Imhothar | ugh wait are you talking fast compiles or fast JITing? |
| 07:20.47 | Thorarin | Fast JITing |
| 07:21.35 | Imhothar | well same thing then. compiler does analysis and writes optimized MSIL |
| 07:21.35 | Thorarin | Pretty sure there is no metadata for range checks, and a division like this would just be a division |
| 07:21.51 | Imhothar | what metadata? |
| 07:22.25 | Thorarin | The CIL that is outputted has a division instruction, and the JITter doesn't optimize it |
| 07:22.25 | Imhothar | if the compiler can figure out the range of values it can write MUL/SHR byte code instead of DIV into the assembly |
| 07:22.57 | Imhothar | that's a big IF though |
| 07:23.38 | Imhothar | but MSVC can figure out all these edge cases, I'm sure they can reuse some parts of its optimizer for other languages |
| 07:24.10 | Imhothar | in the end it's all just a bunch of SSA lines |
| 07:24.20 | Thorarin | Technically that is an optimization that should not be done by the compiler... although any CPU will have faster multiplication than division I guess :) |
| 07:25.32 | Imhothar | it's too common not to do it |
| 07:26.05 | Imhothar | x / 2 is still replaced by x >> 1 or x * 0.5f |
| 07:26.24 | Imhothar | the latter only if enabled though |
| 07:29.28 | Imhothar | that's quite an interesting aspect behind LLVM though |
| 07:29.59 | Imhothar | one can delay optimizations until runtime when the target machine is known |
| 07:35.06 | Thorarin | Hmmm well, unfortunately the Microsoft runtime doesn't seem to do multiply/shift optimization |
| 07:35.10 | Thorarin | Dunno about Mono |
| 07:35.52 | Thorarin | Nor the compiler for that matter :P |
| 07:36.22 | Thorarin | if (value < 0 || value > 255) return; should be hint enough for static analysis :) |
| 07:38.00 | Thorarin | Somehow the difference I'm seeing is not nearly as big as I would expect tho |
| 08:08.54 | seebs | Trying to think when the crafting materials in bank being used automatically was added. |
| 08:08.56 | seebs | Long time ago. |
| 08:09.35 | Ivnedar | ages ago |
| 08:09.44 | Ivnedar | first thought I had was 1.8, but maybe before that |
| 08:09.49 | Ivnedar | looks to see how close the guess was |
| 08:14.31 | Ivnedar | 1.7 |
| 08:14.33 | Ivnedar | damn I was close |
| 08:14.47 | seebs | Not bad. |
| 08:14.55 | seebs | It's not in the welcome back thread, I think, which is clearly a flaw. |
| 08:15.08 | Ivnedar | who maintains that? |
| 08:15.14 | seebs | Me. |
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| 08:15.25 | Ivnedar | I had tongue firming in cheek :D |
| 08:15.30 | Ivnedar | firmly even |
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| 08:26.38 | seebs_ | Huh, nevermind, it was in the welcome back thread, just with "crafting" capitalized. |
| 08:26.51 | Ivnedar | ah cool |
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| 08:33.54 | seebs_ | I managed to find an item which breaks Sell All Greys. |
| 08:34.14 | seebs_ | There was a quest item, [Directive from Cyril Kalmar]. |
| 08:34.28 | seebs_ | I had it lying around. Now it's [Old Directive from Cyril Kalmar]. |
| 08:34.42 | seebs_ | And it's grey, but has no price and is still a quest item, and sell all greys doesn't like it. |
| 08:36.08 | Ivnedar | hrrm, that would have changed with the IPP change I guess |
| 08:36.21 | Ivnedar | it was the lead in to the IPP starting quests for SL? |
| 08:36.53 | seebs | I think so. |
| 08:37.10 | seebs | So all my level achievements are now hidden because of the new Level 15 achievement. |
| 08:37.23 | seebs | Which sent me a thing I can exchange for a level 10 bind-to-character ring. |
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| 16:04.15 | Noshei | Ivnedar: if I want to have certain triggers for only phase 2 how would I do that? Do I have to use :AddPhase to call a function to check the phase? |
| 17:26.02 | Noshei | ZorbaTHut: any reason why Inspect.Buff.Detail doesn't except typeID's? |
| 17:39.45 | ZorbaTHut | it's possible I just never thought of it |
| 17:40.04 | ZorbaTHut | but also, a lot of buff stats are generated based on dynamic data attached to the buff itself; there might not be much info I could give |
| 17:48.06 | Noshei | in my case I just care about knowing if I have seen a buff or not |
| 17:48.22 | Noshei | so damage numbers and what not aren't important for me |
| 17:50.13 | Noshei | most of the returned members should be possible with just the type ID I would think |
| 17:51.44 | Noshei | want me to post it on the suggestion thread ZorbaTHut? |
| 17:52.08 | ZorbaTHut | hmm. what do you mean, "have seen"? as in, does the client still know about it, or something else? |
| 17:53.33 | Noshei | I just created a little addon that will add a buff's details to a saved variables file once it sees it for the first time. |
| 17:54.08 | Noshei | I'm usint the typeID to track if I have seen the buff before, since it should be unique. |
| 17:54.52 | Noshei | so things like begin, expire, remaining, and id aren't really important for me |
| 17:55.14 | Noshei | caster would be nice, but wouldn't really be possible just off of typeID |
| 17:55.43 | Noshei | and I dont think stack would be possible with typeID either |
| 17:56.08 | ZorbaTHut | I think overall, I'm honestly not sure it'd be worth the implementation time. It sounds like you have an efficient implementation already |
| 17:56.27 | ZorbaTHut | keep in mind that once you close the client, it forgets everything it's seen regarding buffs and units and the like |
| 17:56.43 | Noshei | yeah |
| 17:56.57 | Noshei | hence the saved table |
| 17:58.10 | Noshei | the one reason I can really see for being able to call the inspect with the typeID would be to get information about a buff even when you dont know a unit with the buff currently |
| 17:59.17 | Noshei | this would be somewhat useful for raids, where I could just collect typeID's during an encounter and then get the details about them after leaving combat. That way I reduce the potential for any lag to non-combat times. |
| 17:59.23 | ZorbaTHut | yeah, and given how limited that information would be, I'm not sure that's really useful |
| 18:00.06 | Noshei | true |
| 18:00.50 | Noshei | oh another reason would be consistency |
| 18:01.12 | Noshei | most other inspects for stuff that has a typeID will accept the typeID |
| 18:01.38 | Noshei | but I suspect that is a super low priority |
| 18:01.45 | ZorbaTHut | I don't know about most. Some. :) |
| 18:01.54 | ZorbaTHut | But yeah, low priority - there are much bigger things I'd work on if I had the time right now |
| 18:02.56 | Noshei | so now just to go find a world event boss to kill, get a ton of buffs logged pretty quick |
| 18:03.26 | Noshei | and super spam my console at the same time (I added in a console message to tell me when a new buff is logged) |
| 18:21.10 | Noshei | I guess another nice thing with being able to use the inspect with typeID's is it would allow us to discover all of the buffs in the game with a single script ZorbaTHut |
| 18:21.13 | Noshei | that would be nice |
| 18:24.29 | Noshei | though I guess that would also take a bit of time to run through all the possible typeID;s |
| 18:26.00 | Noshei | that might be something fun to try and rig up. See how many typeID's I could test before triggering the watchdog then using coroutines to allow me to reset the watchdog adn continue testing. |
| 18:27.13 | Noshei | wonder how many days it would take to iterate through all the possible typeID's |
| 18:30.48 | ZorbaTHut | it wouldn't allow that - the client isn't aware of types it hasn't seen :P |
| 18:31.12 | Noshei | ah |
| 18:31.35 | Noshei | so I'd just end up getting a ton of errors and a handful of successes |
| 18:32.05 | ZorbaTHut | yup. and those successes would be the ones you've already seen ingame. |
| 18:32.18 | Noshei | yeah |
| 18:32.47 | Noshei | wish we had some way to query the server for that information |
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