| 00:51.58 | Ivnedar_ | woo, auth's up! |
| 01:21.13 | Ivnedar_ | huzzah, they're up! |
| 01:21.27 | Ivnedar_ | or not :D |
| 02:36.06 | Ivnedar_ | Hrrm, shards are locking up for a few minutes every so often |
| 02:36.45 | Ivnedar_ | Ah, NA cluster just crashed, oops |
| 03:15.08 | *** join/#riftuidev seebs (~seebs@home.seebs.net) |
| 03:15.08 | *** mode/#riftuidev [+o seebs] by ChanServ |
| 03:22.20 | Ivnedar_ | That must have been a whopper of a bug |
| 03:22.30 | *** join/#riftuidev Noshei (~quassel@c-24-9-171-99.hsd1.co.comcast.net) |
| 03:37.43 | seebs | ... Oh, man. |
| 03:37.48 | seebs | Ibby has discovered the forums. |
| 03:37.51 | seebs | This may become amusing. |
| 03:39.28 | Ivnedar_ | ... @ GM |
| 03:40.03 | Ivnedar_ | "Yo Dawg - dimensions are temporarily turned off while we continue to debug our ongoing issues. Your dimensions are not lost - just off for a bit." |
| 03:40.30 | seebs | Heh, one of the mods is now trying to figure out what's up with my forum account. |
| 03:41.57 | Ivnedar_ | Pretty sure I just won the internets for this hour |
| 03:42.31 | Ivnedar_ | Someone was whinging about Daglar on Laethys 60 chat, I said he's now known as Dawglar, it's now all over all the crossevents channels :D |
| 03:45.11 | Ivnedar_ | seebs: so it wasn't intentional then? |
| 03:45.32 | seebs | I don't think we know yet. This mod isn't aware of anything that ought to cause it, or a reason for it. |
| 03:48.28 | Ivnedar_ | GM's sleep deprived |
| 03:48.36 | Ivnedar_ | "Ceiling Cat powers ENGAGED." |
| 03:56.45 | Ivnedar_ | "Yo Dawg - I heard saying yo dawg and trying to have levity is super unprofessional and not super cereal. Sorry dawg!" |
| 03:58.26 | seebs | Heh. |
| 03:58.38 | seebs | Trion's GMs really do have a very good attitude, in general. |
| 04:08.41 | Ivnedar_ | Yeah :D |
| 04:10.56 | Ivnedar_ | hrrm, apparently opening warfront queue menu disconnects you |
| 04:11.07 | Ivnedar_ | nope, that was NA cluster crashing again |
| 04:17.34 | Noshei | I always find it funny that Comedy Central has a World News Headquarters |
| 06:04.53 | IHatePickingName | how are some functions limited by the rift api? if I execute a standard lua script that prints the keys and values for pairs(os) i get 12 functions. If i execute teh same print statement in rift api i get 3 |
| 06:05.09 | IHatePickingName | i dont get how they are able to limit functions. |
| 06:08.39 | Ivnedar_ | if they're not in the global scope, then they don't exist |
| 06:09.28 | Ivnedar_ | they'd just need to pick the functions they want to expose, add them to a table and make that the new global |
| 06:10.07 | IHatePickingName | global scope where though? for example os.clock (random choice) is in "normal" lua, but not available otherwise |
| 06:10.45 | Ivnedar_ | say I make a newglobal = { os = { clock = os.clock, }, ) |
| 06:10.52 | IHatePickingName | they make a new table of functions that override the globals? |
| 06:10.59 | Ivnedar_ | then make newglobal the new global |
| 06:11.12 | Ivnedar_ | nothing that isn't inside newglobal will be accessible anymore |
| 06:11.59 | IHatePickingName | hm, interesting. |
| 06:20.32 | seebs | I think in general, the global tables like os and string are just, well, tables. |
| 06:20.42 | seebs | So you can add functions to them, or remove functions from them... |
| 06:22.06 | IHatePickingName | thats kind of an interesting feature of a language (to me) |
| 06:22.47 | IHatePickingName | And from the little bit i know right now of lua, I am assuming the reason that is allowed is because functions are variables |
| 06:23.47 | Ivnedar_ | function references are, yeah |
| 06:42.38 | Amadeus- | so the updates do lead one to think that the problems today were "load" related ...I'm surprised by that. |
| 08:02.23 | *** join/#riftuidev Amadeus- (~amadeus@66-215-115-177.dhcp.gvrb.ca.charter.com) |
| 08:59.36 | Ivnedar_ | So yeah, the rollbacks we had were character based, not account based |
| 08:59.52 | Ivnedar_ | so any PA points earned are kept across rollbacks ... |
| 09:33.17 | *** join/#riftuidev Alystin (~alystin@ip-5-146-170-181.unitymediagroup.de) |
| 09:35.19 | *** join/#riftuidev Imhothar (~Imhothar@ppp-188-174-145-245.dynamic.mnet-online.de) |
| 10:24.33 | ZorbaTHut | ihatepickingname, from a programming standpoint, there's a function called lua_newstate() that creates a fresh Lua environment. this environment has literally *no* functions available in it - no print, no table, nothin'. |
| 10:25.08 | ZorbaTHut | from there, there's a single function call that will introduce all the standard functions, or you can introduce individual libraries piecemeal. there's a few libraries we just don't introduce in the first place because there's nothing we want to expose out of them |
| 10:25.41 | ZorbaTHut | out of the libraries we *do* expose, we then go through and remove a few sensitive functions, and override a few more sensitive functions to link better with our environment (print(), for example - we have our own implementation that outputs to the ingame console instead of to standard output) |
| 10:26.15 | ZorbaTHut | we don't start up any addons until all of that is set up, so we ensure that addons can't access anything we don't want to allow :) |
| 10:27.30 | Ivnedar_ | I assume there's no way to call a function by explicit address in lua |
| 10:27.35 | Ivnedar_ | if you knew the address of the removed function, etc |
| 10:27.37 | ZorbaTHut | nope |
| 10:27.57 | ZorbaTHut | maybe with luajit's ffi, but there's a reason we have that disabled as well :V |
| 10:39.48 | Ivnedar_ | mwahahaha |
| 10:39.54 | Ivnedar_ | broke kbm for everyone in our raid |
| 10:40.02 | Ivnedar_ | it freaks out completely if you use one of the new raid marks |
| 10:40.36 | Ivnedar_ | :D |
| 11:05.41 | Imhothar | ZorbaTHut you know already when you'll be able to spend time on API again? |
| 11:05.53 | Imhothar | or, let's say, "if" |
| 11:06.02 | ZorbaTHut | nope :/ I wouldn't hold your breath though, it's definitely past 2.6 |
| 11:06.10 | ZorbaTHut | I'd say I'll be able to at some point |
| 11:06.13 | Ivnedar_ | Once the game runs at 90fps on a TI99/4A |
| 11:06.21 | Imhothar | oh well enough time to fix my addons then |
| 11:06.47 | ZorbaTHut | if you're referring to removing the old event system, I'll be giving another patch's warning before that actually happens |
| 11:06.56 | Imhothar | no, did that already |
| 11:07.26 | Ivnedar_ | The random things that have crept in since June? |
| 11:07.34 | Ivnedar_ | like transcendent items and bank vaults? |
| 11:07.38 | Imhothar | did we get the ability to fire UI events through the frame stack manually in the meantime? |
| 11:07.46 | ZorbaTHut | no, not yet |
| 11:07.59 | ZorbaTHut | though note that the old method of creating custom UI events still works, and with a little tweakery, will continue working |
| 11:08.36 | ZorbaTHut | I never officially supported custom UI events - in fact it would have been nigh-impossible with the old setup - so I'm not making it a priority to introduce them. But at least the new setup is capable of it. |
| 11:08.47 | Imhothar | well I had a use case where I needed to manually fire a TextChanged event on a RiftTextfield |
| 11:09.24 | ZorbaTHut | that may or may not ever end up possible |
| 11:09.27 | Ivnedar_ | ooh, so you can attach a macro to that event and have it automate combat? :D |
| 11:09.32 | ZorbaTHut | similar to how you can't manually trigger global events |
| 11:09.47 | ZorbaTHut | (and that's one of the reasons why I'm hesitant to allow it ;) ) |
| 11:09.59 | Ivnedar_ | That issue's fixed now isn't it? |
| 11:10.03 | ZorbaTHut | yeah |
| 11:10.05 | Imhothar | Not the internal UI events, just the bubble/sink thing |
| 11:10.14 | Ivnedar_ | wee, EE walls are going crazy :D |
| 11:10.25 | ZorbaTHut | well, TextChanged is an internal UI event :V |
| 11:10.30 | ZorbaTHut | but yeah, at some point I would like to add custom event support |
| 11:11.32 | ZorbaTHut | afk off to work :) |
| 11:11.36 | Imhothar | it is, but it originates somewhere in Scaleform and is then shot into the Lua environment. I would like to be able to do the "shot into the Lua environment" thing |
| 11:11.38 | Ivnedar_ | Have fun! |
| 11:11.43 | Ivnedar_ | Hope the mood isn't too terrible |
| 11:11.55 | Ivnedar_ | And hope people have been able to go home and sleep :P |
| 11:12.07 | ZorbaTHut | nah, we've had worse ;) |
| 11:14.36 | Imhothar | I wonder though, if manually triggering just the Lua-side of UI events (i.e. just the addon event handlers) can get people thinking about macro exploits, the implementation makes me worry |
| 11:24.38 | Ivnedar_ | The KeyFocus one was amusing, more so by it being used by gold sellers more than anyone else |
| 15:42.17 | *** join/#riftuidev purl (~purl@rikers.org) |
| 15:42.17 | *** topic/#riftuidev is http://pastebin.com for code snippets || PIL: http://www.lua.org/pil || Rift AddOn Policy: http://t.co/7xXd4LL || AddOn Wiki: wiki.riftui.com/ || RiftUI.com || rift.curse.com || this channel is logged, via purl || Rift goes F2P, June 12th, http://www.riftgame.com/free |
| 15:42.40 | Ivnedar_ | nah, just watching open tcp connections and where they're connected to |
| 15:42.55 | Imhothar | that's too easy |
| 15:43.59 | Ivnedar_ | I could work off the assumption that server time is consistently given out by the auth server, so I can use it |
| 15:44.10 | Ivnedar_ | since guest accounts are pretty unlikely to need it since they're capped at lvl 6 |
| 15:44.27 | Imhothar | why waste bandwidth on the server time |
| 15:44.58 | Imhothar | all the client really needs is one timestamp when connecting and count upwards with its own uptime |
| 15:45.17 | Ivnedar_ | yeah, using frame once server is mapped to frame |
| 15:45.32 | Ivnedar_ | so frame is used for updates, server is used to set initial frame time |
| 15:45.44 | Imhothar | I'm pretty sure IFT uses the application uptime |
| 15:45.52 | Ivnedar_ | it does |
| 15:46.32 | Ivnedar_ | at least it's close enough to it to assume that's what it is |
| 15:47.02 | Ivnedar_ | if that's the case, server time could be seed time plus frame time |
| 15:47.04 | Ivnedar_ | no server query needed |
| 15:47.19 | Imhothar | aye |
| 15:47.37 | Imhothar | the skew difference in clock frequencies can be pretty much ignored on these time scalesw |
| 15:47.43 | Ivnedar_ | yeah |
| 15:47.59 | Ivnedar_ | but if that's the case, I may as well use server time for everything |
| 15:48.34 | Imhothar | you still need to figure out how much difference there is to server time |
| 15:48.59 | Imhothar | right now I wouldn't know how |
| 15:49.07 | Ivnedar_ | If I want a 20s countdown, I broadcast to the raid server time plus 20 |
| 15:49.21 | Ivnedar_ | they setup a timer that displays that timestamp - now |
| 15:49.32 | Ivnedar_ | update it once a second |
| 15:49.50 | Imhothar | and how does client A know it's own difference to the server time? |
| 15:49.57 | Ivnedar_ | doesn't need to care |
| 15:50.20 | Ivnedar_ | client A only wants to know "20 seconds from now" where "now" is current server time |
| 15:50.33 | Imhothar | then it's no different to the "countdown from 5" broadcast |
| 15:50.57 | Ivnedar_ | except that the broadcast introduces time delays |
| 15:51.07 | Imhothar | if the ITS is only an accumulation using uptime, then there's no difference in advancement between ITF and ITS |
| 15:51.12 | Ivnedar_ | if it takes 1 second for the "countdown from 5" message to reach someone, their timer is off by 1 second |
| 15:51.46 | Imhothar | if it takes 1s for the "user server time now" message to reach the client you have exactly the same problem |
| 15:52.05 | Ivnedar_ | it's not a "user server time now" message |
| 15:52.11 | Ivnedar_ | it's a number |
| 15:52.17 | Ivnedar_ | unix timestamp for when the countdown will end |
| 15:53.02 | Imhothar | ok, so client A sends message to B. A's ITS delay is 0 and it tells B that 0 is tiemstamp now+5 and sends "now+5" as content of the message |
| 15:53.23 | Imhothar | client B receives it, checks its ITS and sets its countdown to the value |
| 15:53.31 | Imhothar | but it's ITS is off by 3 from A |
| 15:54.16 | Imhothar | so now you got message delay + possible ITS offset of each other client |
| 15:54.20 | Imhothar | you made it worse |
| 15:55.40 | Ivnedar_ | If we can't assume that ITS is correct across clients, then it wouldn't work |
| 15:55.43 | Imhothar | well, actually the message delay can be ignored now |
| 15:56.38 | Imhothar | but if every client has it's own unique ITS skew, your're sk(r)ewed |
| 15:56.44 | Ivnedar_ | yup |
| 15:56.54 | Ivnedar_ | which is why I'm trying to work out what ITS actually is |
| 15:57.00 | Ivnedar_ | and if it can be useful in any way |
| 15:57.16 | Imhothar | I don't think it's meant for such delicate operations |
| 15:57.28 | Imhothar | more like syncing calendars and events |
| 15:58.42 | Imhothar | I think you'll have to go with a NTP like thing |
| 15:58.54 | Imhothar | to symc ITS offsets once |
| 15:59.37 | Ivnedar_ | then track that per user I may talk to |
| 16:06.17 | Ivnedar_ | ok, it varies per zone too, the difference between local and server time |
| 16:06.49 | Ivnedar_ | and seems to vary by different amounts for different people ... |
| 16:09.41 | Imhothar | hmm |
| 16:10.07 | Imhothar | then it's probably a really low priority message with no real syncing involved |
| 16:17.37 | Imhothar | I don't really think you can solve this issue because you have no reliable fixed point of reference anywhere |
| 16:18.02 | Imhothar | all you can really do is NTP with the raid lead as root |
| 16:18.59 | Imhothar | and that should happen in a low traffic environment otherwise message delay is gonna screw everything up badly |
| 16:27.42 | Ivnedar_ | may be able to work out ITS difference between two people and assume it stays the same while both don't change zones |
| 16:27.51 | Ivnedar_ | by working it out in both directions a few times |
| 16:28.04 | Imhothar | I still wonder how to figure out the difference |
| 16:29.23 | Imhothar | you're not trying to sync the clients' clocks but the offset to a secondary clock for which both clients can have arbitrary offsets |
| 16:29.25 | Ivnedar_ | I send you my current ITS, you send me your ITS and the difference between mine and yours when I received it |
| 16:29.49 | Ivnedar_ | repeat that a few times until we get an idea of what the difference should be |
| 16:29.57 | Imhothar | still susceptible to message delay |
| 16:30.16 | Imhothar | and you are aiming for accuracy of less than a second |
| 16:33.00 | Ivnedar_ | you can work out round trip by seeing how long it takes to come back, and assume one way is half of that |
| 16:33.09 | *** join/#riftuidev seebs (~seebs@home.seebs.net) |
| 16:33.10 | *** mode/#riftuidev [+o seebs] by ChanServ |
| 16:33.28 | Imhothar | sure |
| 16:53.45 | Ivnedar_ | Problem for tomorrow. Nite :) |
| 17:15.57 | Thorarin | ZorbaTHut - About the daily error report... recently, a specific error started showing up with error percentages bewteen 23% and 40%. |
| 17:15.57 | Thorarin | After analysis, it appears that it is due to incompatibility with a few uncommon addons and the error should occur in every recent KaruulAlert version. |
| 17:15.57 | Thorarin | However, it only shows up for the latest version. Is my analysis wrong, or did I just solve all the other errors that were dominating the report for previous versions? :P |
| 17:17.31 | *** join/#riftuidev Noshei (~quassel@c-24-9-171-99.hsd1.co.comcast.net) |
| 18:44.04 | *** join/#riftuidev Imhothar (~Imhothar@ppp-188-174-145-245.dynamic.mnet-online.de) |
| 20:07.14 | seebs | http://www.seebs.net/images/printf.png <-- only funny to C programmers who spend too much time on meme sites, probably. |
| 20:13.51 | Imhothar | seems I don't spend enough time on meme sites then |
| 20:16.55 | seebs | http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/doge <-- like that, only I don't have a shiba inu. |
| 20:23.08 | Imhothar | dafuq... |
| 22:19.26 | ZorbaTHut | thorarin, if the other versions have five errors listed, and the current version has less than five, then it's entirely possible you've just solved all the other errors |
| 22:21.24 | Thorarin | Hmm, still 5 errors, just all because of the same reason :< |
| 22:22.52 | ZorbaTHut | well, in that case, I'm not sure |
| 22:23.15 | ZorbaTHut | if you want I can pull a full error dump and send it to you tomorrow |
| 23:24.08 | Thorarin | It's just that the high percentage is scary... but it may not mean anything |
| 23:24.33 | Thorarin | All errors reported in a period make up 100% in total I guess, nothing to do with the actual numbers |
| 23:29.03 | ZorbaTHut | yep. if you're lucky, that just means you're reducing error count in general :) |
| 23:29.30 | Imhothar | would be nice to get the number of not reported errors in the mail |
| 23:30.10 | ZorbaTHut | would that include filtered errors, or just errors that don't make the 5-error cutoff? |
| 23:30.23 | Imhothar | filtered? |
| 23:30.42 | ZorbaTHut | errors that come from only one computer, or that aren't common enough to be shown ever |
| 23:30.55 | Imhothar | probably not |
| 23:31.23 | ZorbaTHut | might be doable, although I suspect it's lower priority than other addon improvements |
| 23:31.55 | Imhothar | my last error report for ImhoBags 0.15beta2 contains only 24% which is ... weird |
| 23:32.28 | ZorbaTHut | if it's got five errors listed, it just means that it stopped including errors at that point - it shows only the five most common errors per version |
| 23:32.33 | Imhothar | guess that means there must be like 70 x 1% errors |
| 23:32.55 | Imhothar | probably performance warnings all over the place heh |
| 23:33.41 | ZorbaTHut | might be :) I can generate an unfiltered report if you want |
| 23:33.57 | Imhothar | nah, not necessary |
| 23:40.10 | Thorarin | Speaking of Imhobags, any chance of making it track the vaults? :) |
| 23:40.26 | Imhothar | probably |
| 23:41.33 | Thorarin | Would be awesome... Honestly I mostly use the tooltip and search options, so having them show all my stuff is kinda the point of having it in the first place |
| 23:42.18 | Thorarin | I'm too lazy to get my own storage guild, so I just got my 7th vault on alt lol |
| 23:44.03 | Thorarin | Since you don't really play, yell if you need a REX or smt to buy a vault slot :P |
| 23:45.01 | Imhothar | might as well yell at a certain someone to allow us to buy/use/rest stuff on PTS without spending actual money |
| 23:45.14 | Imhothar | *reset |
| 23:45.31 | Thorarin | Would be nice for some things yes |
| 23:46.00 | Thorarin | But not sure how succesful that'll be :P |
| 23:47.52 | Thorarin | Hmm, should get to bed actually |
| 23:48.21 | Thorarin | Will be time for work soonish :> |
