| 01:50.40 | Ivnedar_ | hrrm, interesting, hotfix #9 fixes the hive rendering issues |
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| 02:25.51 | ZorbaBeta | it definitelty fixes some of them |
| 02:25.53 | ZorbaBeta | may fix them all |
| 02:25.58 | ZorbaBeta | not entirely clear yet :V |
| 02:26.06 | ZorbaBeta | (brb, need a reboot) |
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| 03:01.22 | Ivnedar_ | ooh, cool :D |
| 03:01.28 | Ivnedar_ | Will see if I can break it on the weekend ;) |
| 03:01.43 | Ivnedar_ | time off work finally! |
| 03:03.09 | ZorbaTHut | nice :) |
| 03:04.17 | Ivnedar_ | pretty much ever weekend I've had in the last few months has been a work call out |
| 03:06.28 | Ivnedar_ | would there be any technical reasons why a spectator mode for raiding couldn't exist? |
| 03:06.45 | ZorbaTHut | besides implementation difficulty, I don't believe so |
| 03:07.05 | Ivnedar_ | ability for raid leader to invite someone into an instance in spectator mode so they can float around, clipping still happening, but not able to interact with anything |
| 03:07.27 | Ivnedar_ | probably quite a few places that could be used |
| 03:09.12 | Ivnedar_ | I imagine they'd have to be invisible to the people normally raiding or it could be confusing |
| 03:09.19 | Ivnedar_ | Could be cool for people making movies of things :D |
| 03:11.25 | seebs | It's called /demorecord, and it was one of the best CoH features. |
| 03:11.31 | ZorbaTHut | we've actually *sort of* got that already implemented, but . . . it relies on the "spectator" being able to turn completely invisible, and it's a little janky |
| 03:11.57 | ZorbaTHut | there's no actual code preventing the "spectator" from interfering with the fight. that's the tough part, really. |
| 03:11.59 | seebs | The /demorecord thing was amazing, and I wish everyone would do it. |
| 03:12.01 | Ivnedar_ | I imagine a lot of it would be there for devs to jump in and watch already |
| 03:12.08 | ZorbaTHut | that is, in fact, what its purpose is ;) |
| 03:12.30 | Ivnedar_ | yeah, you'd need some way of categorising a person in the instance as not existing on any boss aggro/target table |
| 03:12.43 | Ivnedar_ | 'cause that would suck if mechanics are targetted at some invisible person |
| 03:12.51 | seebs | Basically, what it did was create a text file containing all the information the client would use to render things, with timestamps. |
| 03:12.59 | Ivnedar_ | lol @ the idea of a boss mechanic targetting a dev while the raid wasn't aware they were there watching :D |
| 03:13.11 | seebs | Then any client could play back that recorded thing, using local video settings, and you could see exactly what it had looked like. |
| 03:13.22 | ZorbaTHut | yeah, and that's where things get sketchy. we have the ability to set it up so the boss isn't aware of a person . . . but the person may still end up on their aggro table if they do anything. so, that's where the "be super careful" part comes in. |
| 03:13.26 | ZorbaTHut | (it's not a feature we use often :P) |
| 03:13.32 | Ivnedar_ | seebs: that could be amusing to play with, you could also make your own custom videos that way |
| 03:13.43 | seebs | Very good technical solution to the general case of "I want to look at this" or "show me how you did that". |
| 03:13.47 | ZorbaTHut | seebs, it's an idea I've always wanted, but it's probably a ways off - the render system simply isn't set up for it :/ |
| 03:14.10 | Ivnedar_ | it would be handy for submitting in bug reports too |
| 03:14.21 | ZorbaTHut | it pops up every few years because a company does it and it turns out most people don't really care about it, unfortunately. it's the kind of thing that gets implemented due to an API coincidentally working well |
| 03:14.26 | Ivnedar_ | boss did something weird, submit transcript of encounter to make it easier to find patterns/causes |
| 03:14.31 | seebs | Well, they might well have the ability to do that already given server access. |
| 03:14.34 | seebs | I know CoH did. |
| 03:15.05 | seebs | One time, Arcanaville reported some strange behavior in a fight to a dev, and a while back, got a detailed question about her movements during the fight, to the point of "why did you suddenly move left right around ..." |
| 03:15.20 | ZorbaTHut | hah |
| 03:15.37 | seebs | Well, most people don't care about it much, but for Rift in particular, it would have been spectacularly useful for the endless threads about frame rates. |
| 03:15.44 | Ivnedar_ | because if you move in that pattern, you hit a buffer overflow that teleports you to this other coordinate which causes the boss to drop health by 20%! |
| 03:15.47 | seebs | Because we could have had a meaningful benchmark. |
| 03:15.50 | ZorbaTHut | that's the kind of thing that can freak out players. it's sort of unspoken MMO policy to not say too much about what the developers can access :V |
| 03:16.00 | ZorbaTHut | seebs, yeah, can't say I'd complain about having one of those >_< |
| 03:16.18 | Ivnedar_ | even if it wasn't able to be player generated |
| 03:16.19 | seebs | FF14 does basically that in their benchmark app; they play back a thing with selected settings and give you a number. |
| 03:16.27 | Ivnedar_ | just have a tech demo script that people could run locally? |
| 03:16.34 | Ivnedar_ | yeah, that! |
| 03:16.48 | seebs | Something that really confuses me: Any time there's threads about in-game abuse or whatever, someone comes along and says "well, submit reports with a screen shot". |
| 03:16.58 | seebs | Because the devs TOTALLY need a screen shot to know who said what. |
| 03:17.07 | Ivnedar_ | I really hope they don't |
| 03:17.14 | seebs | I am pretty sure they do not. |
| 03:17.41 | seebs | The PoE devs have asked for screenshots on reports when it's convenient, but just because it streamlines the process of finding the thing said somewhat, because it reduces the risk of typos making it impossible to find things. |
| 03:17.43 | Ivnedar_ | given any player generated screenshots could be trivially modified |
| 03:18.03 | seebs | I think that was the same thread that produced one of my favorite dev responses ever. |
| 03:18.30 | seebs | People were talking about the forum rules (which are pretty visibly enforced), and one player in particular was convinced that a mod was breaking a rule, and was fussing about it. |
| 03:18.53 | seebs | And there was a polite response to the effect of "if you think something is inappropriate, here's how to send in a report, ..." |
| 03:19.03 | seebs | Player says "so, basically, anyone who works for GGG can get away with murder." |
| 03:19.21 | seebs | "If you believe that a GGG employee has murdered you or another player, please take a screenshot and send a report to..." |
| 03:20.25 | ZorbaTHut | hah |
| 03:20.28 | seebs | And now I am suddenly tempted to make an addon for fake screenshots. I think I'd better not. |
| 03:20.42 | seebs | "/fake [channel] [username] message" |
| 03:20.58 | seebs | I wonder if I could examine the user's settings to pick up channel colors. |
| 03:22.50 | Ivnedar_ | I did want to look at reimplementing the chat frame in an addon |
| 03:22.59 | Ivnedar_ | and pass messages based on that |
| 03:23.07 | Ivnedar_ | so the addon could see them |
| 03:24.02 | seebs | It would be really nice to be able to reimplement the chat frames, the existing implementations are full of minor annoyances. |
| 03:24.18 | Ivnedar_ | The problems I couldn't solve revolved around impersonation |
| 03:24.33 | Ivnedar_ | if I'm now trusting an addon telling me who's sayin what, and that addon could change things ... |
| 03:24.44 | Ivnedar_ | I could pretend to be a trion employee etc |
| 03:24.59 | Ivnedar_ | though it could force some fields I guess based on the sender of the addon message |
| 03:25.02 | Ivnedar_ | hrrm |
| 03:25.15 | seebs | Last time I looked, the big problem was the lack of any way to observe chat messages. Although I suppose you could do a private chat addon that only talked to other users who used it. |
| 03:25.30 | Ivnedar_ | that's what I meant |
| 03:25.40 | Ivnedar_ | you use real channels to pass addon messages to people in that channel running the same addon |
| 03:26.32 | seebs | Huh, interesting thought. |
| 03:28.00 | Ivnedar_ | It started off as an idea of making an instant messaging addon |
| 03:28.08 | Ivnedar_ | based off your friends list if you want |
| 03:28.30 | Ivnedar_ | add people, if they have the same addon, you can use it to send anything you want between them after that bit's established |
| 03:29.02 | Ivnedar_ | pass through an item link and it constructs a tooltip out of it |
| 03:29.17 | Ivnedar_ | that sort of thing :) |
| 03:29.43 | Ivnedar_ | if they don't have the addon, it could send the message to them via a macro or something |
| 03:30.53 | Ivnedar_ | It got scrapped when I once again realised I suck at UI design :D |
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| 11:15.49 | Ivnedar_ | well, the shard reunification makes raid weeklies "interesting" |
| 11:16.11 | Ivnedar_ | everyone's standing around mashing buttons, hoping that an abilitiy will go off some time :D |
| 11:17.54 | Ivnedar_ | and either laethys or my client just crashed :D |
| 11:19.24 | Ivnedar_ | ZorbaTHut: will the client crash if the ability queue fills up? |
| 11:19.33 | Ivnedar_ | assuming there is such a thing |
| 11:25.45 | Ivnedar_ | Kazz'ra is definitely more interesting without a floor :D |
| 11:25.56 | Ivnedar_ | and 500+ people |
| 11:37.21 | Ivnedar_ | ah, he's bugged |
| 11:37.26 | Ivnedar_ | despawns at 70% |
| 11:37.27 | Ivnedar_ | :( |
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| 17:46.18 | ZorbaTHut | pretty sure there isn't one, it just sends a command saying "hey, when you get a chance, cast ability ____ next" |
| 18:47.02 | Thorarin | Queue of size 1 ;) |
| 18:52.51 | Thorarin | Huh, odd... Guild Log shows messages for the past 4 days, but doesn't show a certain person leaving 23 hours ago. |
| 19:11.07 | Thorarin | Hmmmz |
| 19:11.24 | Thorarin | What's NerfedUtils and why does it conflict with LibString? :< |
| 19:15.04 | Imhothar | how can something conflict with LibString? |
| 19:42.32 | Thorarin | Pretty easy... |
| 19:43.20 | Thorarin | Different string.split implementation |
| 19:44.16 | Thorarin | It's being loaded after LibString I imagine, overwriting the implementation |
| 19:44.27 | Imhothar | sigh |
| 19:45.35 | Thorarin | I'm not sure which addon it's part of... I thought NerfedWarrior didn't develop anymore? |
| 20:00.43 | Thorarin | 48% of reported errors from that 0.o |
| 20:00.55 | Thorarin | So either I have very few errors, or it's something really bad :P |
| 20:00.55 | Imhothar | fun |
| 20:04.41 | Thorarin | Seems Book of the Fallen reborn is using it at least :/ |
| 20:06.53 | Thorarin | string.split = function(s, re) :< |
| 20:07.21 | Imhothar | well that's unfortunate |
| 20:08.55 | Torhal | Tell the author to use the library or GTFO. |
| 20:09.21 | Thorarin | Well, last update was in July.. hmm :/ |
| 20:10.49 | Thorarin | I'm tempted to just add a NerfedUtils = { "optional", "before" } and have the stuff overwritten :) |
| 20:12.20 | Torhal | Seriously, though, adding a method to string within an AddOn is just bad manners. |
| 20:12.35 | Thorarin | It is a library |
| 20:12.45 | Torhal | Oh. Urk. |
| 20:12.52 | Imhothar | LibString does it but well, it's called LibString for a reason |
| 20:12.57 | Torhal | Aye. |
| 20:13.05 | Torhal | That's why I didn't know NerfedUtils was a lib |
| 20:13.38 | Torhal | I thought it was just an AddOn that did multiple things and happened to add a method to string instead of having an internal strsplit or whatnot |
| 20:16.27 | Torhal | Thorarin: I'd wager it's limited to these: http://www.curseforge.com/profiles/NerfedWar/ |
| 20:16.46 | Torhal | There doesn't seem to be a project for it anywhere, so it would seem sane to assume it's his own internal lib |
| 20:17.24 | Torhal | I'd ask the maintainer of Book of the Fallen Reborn to change to LibString. |
| 20:19.25 | Thorarin | mm hmm |
| 20:39.02 | Thorarin | FFS |
| 20:39.10 | Thorarin | EnKai also defines a string:split |
| 20:42.34 | Torhal | Urk. |
| 20:43.17 | Imhothar | this is getting better and better. can the powers that are do a grep on string.split in all repositories? ;) |
| 20:43.45 | Torhal | Just stab Naifu, IMO. |
| 20:46.17 | Torhal | Need moar betterer author community cohesion. |
| 20:46.32 | Torhal | Over in WoW-land, we just beat one another to death. |
| 20:46.55 | Imhothar | community censoring at work |
| 20:50.28 | Torhal | Also, apparently every one of Naifu's AddOns uses EnKai as a library. |
| 20:51.54 | Thorarin | Seems that one always behaves like LibString string.split(str, sep, true) |
| 20:52.16 | Thorarin | So suddenly you're pattern matching even if you don't want to |
| 20:53.26 | Torhal | Really, though; when it comes to libraries, in the WoW community we are quick to tell people their stuff is breaking someone else's stuff, and that libraries should be specific-purpose, not a kitchen-sink affair (because nothing breaks other peoples' stuff quite like something that tries to do everything) |
| 20:54.02 | Torhal | I don't know if it's too late to foster that in Rift or not, but it appears to be needed. |
| 20:55.02 | Imhothar | well, how many people are still actively writing Rift addons? seems to me activity is dropping fast |
| 20:55.35 | Torhal | Dunno, TBH. |
| 20:55.53 | Torhal | I still approve new projects here and there. |
| 20:56.19 | Torhal | http://rift.curseforge.com/addons/ <-- sorted by date updated. |
| 20:57.19 | Torhal | But Naifu is definitely active and should probably be talked to about using LibString wherever he needs string.split |
| 20:57.35 | Torhal | Kitchen-sinking all that stuff is seriously bad. |
| 20:58.26 | Torhal | Or at least changing it so he hass lib.strsplit() instead. |
| 20:59.13 | Torhal | Especially since LibString predates his lib by over a year. |
| 20:59.47 | Imhothar | "not written here" syndrome I guess |
| 20:59.58 | Torhal | Not cool when you're breaking your users' stuff. |
| 21:00.33 | Torhal | Meh, sorry - just rambling while I wait for a fix that's required before I can resume work. |
| 21:00.42 | Thorarin | In EnKai, there is a split function defined in a more private scope as well |
| 21:00.55 | Thorarin | Then this: |
| 21:00.55 | Thorarin | -- old functions to be replaced a one point when I made sure they are no longer in use |
| 21:00.56 | Thorarin | function string:split(delimiter) |
| 21:01.00 | Imhothar | so EnKai has two? |
| 21:01.07 | Thorarin | Yeah |
| 21:02.02 | Imhothar | "no longer in use" - how about ctrl+f |
| 21:03.58 | Thorarin | Doesn't sound hard to do indeed :) |
| 21:05.02 | Thorarin | I guess I'm actually pretty lucky that KaruulAlert works for most people, with two libraries changing the behavior :) |
| 21:05.29 | Thorarin | Yet another reminder of why I hate Lua I guess :P |
| 21:05.49 | Imhothar | hate is such a strong word though |
| 21:05.57 | Thorarin | meh |
| 21:06.25 | Torhal | Lua is fine. It's the author community (or my perceived lack of) not following standards that is the issue. |
| 21:06.28 | Thorarin | It's not quite a PHP hate, but definitely a hate :P |
| 21:07.57 | Torhal | I mean, really; why the hell are there only 9 actual authors in-channel? :/ |
| 21:08.16 | Imhothar | didn't know LibString is considered a standard now ;) |
| 21:08.25 | Thorarin | As for the decreased activity in addon authoring, I think it's a direct result of the Addon API not being worked on :/ |
| 21:08.38 | Torhal | It honestly would be in the WoW community; it's a specialized lib. |
| 21:09.26 | Torhal | And if someone else wanted a different version, they wouldn't trample on yours; they'd make myLib:strsplit() or something like it. |
| 21:09.54 | Thorarin | At least for me personally I notice the effects... Less new stuff to play with, means I cba to do any development with the precious little time I have atm |
| 21:10.07 | Thorarin | I'm trying to force myself to atm though :) |
| 21:10.19 | Thorarin | Working on some minor new features etc |
| 21:11.56 | Imhothar | I have a ImhoBags bugfixing roundhouse kick scheduled for in about 2 weeks |
| 21:12.27 | Thorarin | Good :) |
| 21:12.43 | Thorarin | I'm getting somewhat annoyed by LibAsyncTextures errors :< |
| 21:13.47 | Thorarin | No clue what causes them however, not quite annoyed enough yet I guess |
| 21:15.45 | Thorarin | Interesting... New shard since just early monday. High population |
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| 23:14.21 | Ivnedar_ | I do wonder if the gradual decay of shards from high to medium to low pop is related to caps being raised |
| 23:16.04 | Ivnedar_ | My lack of addon dev is probably related to rift burnout |
| 23:16.42 | Ivnedar_ | I really only raid log these days and that makes me sad, since we have a ~10 man core with ~5 noncore and 5-10 mostly afk people |
| 23:16.53 | Ivnedar_ | so we're back to doing ft/ee with 14-15 people |