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| 00:46.02 | Ivnedar | oh wow |
| 00:46.13 | Ivnedar | http://community.riftgame.com/en/2013/10/14/shard-unification-next-week-and-upcoming-internationalization-plans/ |
| 00:47.01 | Ivnedar | clusters collapsing back, shard mergers |
| 01:03.39 | seebs | Not suprised. |
| 01:04.10 | seebs | Interesting! They're doing actual mergers, rather than the trial-shard thing. |
| 01:04.43 | seebs | Gonna suck badly for the Necropolis people, who were trying to build a PvP community with slightly less rape jokes and racist spam than Seastone. |
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| 03:47.10 | Ivnedar | most of the worry so far is from the RP community who are getting lumped back in with the pve players |
| 03:48.10 | seebs | Eh, the RP community had been pretty throughly killed a while ago. |
| 03:49.29 | Ivnedar | they're arguing that they're just getting back up |
| 03:50.32 | seebs | Argent was pretty much destroyed when Trion recommended non-RPers go there, and told them not to worry about the RP flag. This, coupled with the long history of completely disregarding any and all complaints about overt and blatant RP griefing, was pretty fatal. |
| 03:50.50 | Ivnedar | and now they're all losing their names |
| 03:50.55 | seebs | I mean, it was bad enough to ignore the people who said they had only gone to an RP shard because they wanted to harass the RPers. |
| 03:51.11 | seebs | Then encouraging a lot of people who have no interest in RP to go to an RP shard anyway... well, it was sorta dead. |
| 03:52.40 | Ivnedar | There's gotta be a better way of fixing the naming issue |
| 03:53.02 | Ivnedar | Combine the shards, but keep the suffixes of names |
| 03:53.12 | seebs | Yeah, but... Fundamentally, it only matters to people who are involved in their characters, or the community. And that's not a market the current director of community values. |
| 03:53.17 | Ivnedar | make the suffixes as long a list as needed |
| 03:53.27 | Ivnedar | If the name you want is in use on one suffix, pick another |
| 03:53.35 | seebs | So far as I can tell, the current strategy is to try to reduce complaints about the community by actively driving away anyone who claims to care about it. |
| 03:56.02 | Ivnedar | other issue seems to be people who have max characters on both shards already |
| 03:56.07 | Ivnedar | so they'll end up with 2x max |
| 03:56.56 | Ivnedar | lol |
| 03:57.14 | Ivnedar | "Want to play on a shard, but experience the content in French while your friend experiences the content in German?" |
| 03:57.21 | Ivnedar | "NO NO NO NO NO NO NO. PLEASE NO!" |
| 04:16.26 | Ivnedar | http://forums.riftgame.com/general-discussions/general-discussion/389470-shard-unification-next-week-upcoming-internationalization-plans-6.html#post4538109 |
| 04:16.29 | Ivnedar | harsh |
| 04:39.13 | seebs | FF14 has an automatic translation feature -- not for free-form text, but there's a huuuge set of things you can pick from that you see in your language and other people see in their language. |
| 04:43.01 | Ivnedar | lego universe was interesting in that every token in a chat conversation had to be in their dictionary of allowed tokens |
| 04:43.05 | Ivnedar | conversing sucked |
| 04:43.43 | Ivnedar | half the time talking to someone was spent trying to find an allowed word that conveyed your message |
| 04:44.01 | Ivnedar | doing it that way could be an interesting way of doing translations though |
| 05:33.19 | Repo | king-molinator: kekoas * r755 (3 files in 2 directories): (755) Updates for Salvarola. |
| 06:32.57 | Thorarin | Meh, this merge thing will be pretty damn annoying :( |
| 06:34.53 | Thorarin | Plus, Zaviel is already performing like crap... that will be fun after a merge :/ |
| 06:52.26 | Ivnedar | D'oh, Warhammer Online going down |
| 09:31.46 | *** join/#riftuidev ZorbaGama (tocohl@maximilian.pavlovian.net) |
| 09:50.39 | Ivnedar | hrrm, I don't suppose we have access to the images behind aurora/nebula? |
| 09:51.05 | Ivnedar | As much as I want to see the full pic, I'm sure I will be disappointed if I do :P |
| 09:56.58 | ZorbaGama | not easily, though if you install a dx debugging package you can probably dig them out |
| 09:57.04 | ZorbaGama | as I recall, they're actually from NASA :V |
| 10:00.16 | ZorbaGama | (if you decide to take that path, intel gpa is a very good package that allows you to inspect the inner workings of a surprising number of games) |
| 10:18.15 | Ivnedar | ahh, cool :D |
| 10:19.32 | ZorbaGama | yeah it's a really neat tool to play with, at least if you have interest in graphics internals. it'll even show you shader disassembly |
| 10:21.59 | Ivnedar | I'll grab it once my wife stops parsing |
| 10:22.15 | Ivnedar | A bit mean if I add lag when she's trying to get a new high score :D |
| 10:22.22 | ZorbaGama | true :D |
| 10:23.29 | Ivnedar | Oh oh, we got Salv down last night finally :D |
| 10:23.42 | ZorbaGama | congrats! |
| 10:23.45 | Ivnedar | Buggy lasers/casts and all |
| 10:23.46 | Ivnedar | thanks :D |
| 10:24.04 | Ivnedar | It was the first time we'd had our old core players on all at once in months |
| 10:24.09 | Ivnedar | and magically kill it |
| 10:24.38 | Ivnedar | 2 out of 3 lasers for our mini boss phase were bugged |
| 10:24.49 | Ivnedar | no cast bar (so can't tell remaining duration) and only half of the laser was active |
| 10:24.53 | Ivnedar | so it's good and bad :) |
| 10:25.21 | ZorbaGama | wonder what causes that - to the best of my knowledge we haven't managed to reproduce any raid bugs |
| 10:25.37 | Ivnedar | we get it every week |
| 10:25.42 | Ivnedar | Probably latency again |
| 10:25.45 | ZorbaGama | if you get something really broken and have the ability to record a video, toss it up on youtube and send me a link and I'll make sure it gets to someone |
| 10:25.48 | Ivnedar | want a video of the kill to show it? |
| 10:25.52 | Ivnedar | :D |
| 10:26.05 | ZorbaGama | sure :D |
| 10:26.39 | Ivnedar | I don't think I can get kbm to cope with it since cast bar event doesn't happen, and timers aren't always spot on |
| 10:31.12 | Ivnedar | I didn't make a note of which of the Unknown shards we were on |
| 10:32.08 | Ivnedar | Wife recorded it too, but hasn't uploaded it yet. I'll give you the link to that one too when it's up |
| 10:32.32 | ZorbaGama | cool, thanks :) will forward this along |
| 10:32.59 | Ivnedar | I do wonder how many raid bugs people encounter regularly are due to unknowingly doing something different to what was intended witht he encounter |
| 10:33.25 | Ivnedar | Some groups seem to run into the same bug over and over and most others never see it |
| 10:33.34 | Ivnedar | dps levels/timing maybe |
| 10:33.39 | Ivnedar | or different strats used |
| 10:33.55 | ZorbaGama | weird |
| 10:34.07 | Ivnedar | I think we had 9 attempts that night and 5-6 of them had bugged lasers at least once in the encounter |
| 10:34.55 | Ivnedar | And I think a lot of people are still partly blaming Unknown shards :D |
| 10:35.15 | Ivnedar | may be a coincidence that weirdness happens on them more than normal ones |
| 10:35.41 | ZorbaGama | I suspect it may be confirmation bias at this point |
| 10:36.02 | Ivnedar | more than likely :) |
| 10:36.44 | Ivnedar | I'm assuming there's little logging of encounters on the server side |
| 10:36.51 | Ivnedar | nothing to go back to and look at |
| 10:52.07 | tubsawubs | 11:24 < ZorbaGama> yeah it's a really neat tool to play with, at least if you have interest in graphics internals. it'll even show you shader disassembly |
| 10:52.15 | tubsawubs | Why would *anyone* do this willingly? |
| 10:52.16 | tubsawubs | *shudder* |
| 10:56.46 | ZorbaGama | because it's a great way to figure out how other games did certain effects :D |
| 11:00.29 | tubsawubs | From my point of view it's how I figure out how games do broken effects. ._. |
| 11:00.46 | Ivnedar | put in bug reports for broken effects! |
| 11:01.03 | tubsawubs | Ivnedar: I write graphics drivers, I have to make my driver bend over backwards to make the effects look not broken. |
| 11:01.08 | tubsawubs | Because, and I quote "It works on nVidia". |
| 11:01.53 | ZorbaGama | hah, I bet that's fun :P |
| 11:02.17 | Ivnedar | tubsawubs: then you'd be great at submitting technical bugs :D |
| 11:02.44 | tubsawubs | grumble grumble. Did you know: WoW still uses ARB shaders not glsl! |
| 11:03.05 | ZorbaGama | if it ain't broke, etc |
| 11:03.07 | Ivnedar | would those reports end up on ZorbaGama's desk though? |
| 11:03.09 | tubsawubs | Minecraft has display lists that literally contain "glColor3f(0, 0, 0);" |
| 11:03.38 | tubsawubs | Minecraft sometimes does 250 *THOUSAND* occlusion queries per frame. |
| 11:03.42 | tubsawubs | *shudder* |
| 11:03.45 | ZorbaGama | wow |
| 11:03.56 | ZorbaGama | I was kind of worried that I had a chunk of code that could do up to 20 |
| 11:04.03 | ZorbaGama | I guess I didn't need to be worried |
| 11:04.25 | tubsawubs | My favourite is Amnesia, because it's a nice deferred renderer with all modern techniques and clean api usage |
| 11:04.36 | tubsawubs | Then bam: They draw the ui: "glBegin glVertex2f ... glEnd" |
| 11:04.47 | ZorbaGama | *laugh* fantastic |
| 11:04.51 | tubsawubs | Mixing glsl and fixed function pipelines, joy joy. |
| 11:04.56 | ZorbaGama | for some reason UI seems to be a hive of terrible rendering code |
| 11:05.11 | tubsawubs | I think UIs tend to be given to interns/new starters. |
| 11:05.13 | tubsawubs | That's my guess. |
| 11:05.27 | ZorbaGama | scaleform accounts for about 10% of our rendering time and about 50% of our directx calls >_< |
| 11:05.31 | tubsawubs | :D |
| 11:05.32 | Ivnedar | UIs can be turned off for tech demos |
| 11:07.23 | tubsawubs | Hmm, what other horrors do I deal with - oh yeah, half life 2 compiles about 8000 shaders at the start of day |
| 11:07.27 | tubsawubs | then uses like 15 of them. |
| 11:07.43 | ZorbaGama | I really wish opengl had sensible support for build-time shader compiling |
| 11:07.51 | Ivnedar | Do you know in advance which are going to be used? drop the rest of them and win! |
| 11:08.19 | tubsawubs | ZorbaGama: it comes up every Khronos, people say "yeah that's a good idea", then it kinda dies away. |
| 11:08.50 | tubsawubs | Ivnedar: Nope, no idea which are going to be used, makes debugging fun when you have to sit there for 10mins. :-) |
| 11:17.55 | Ivnedar | hrrm, didn't realise rift.exe took so many arguments :D |
| 11:18.06 | Ivnedar | (playing with intel gpa) |
| 11:20.09 | Ivnedar | Oh wow, Rift in wireframe! |
| 11:20.23 | Ivnedar | no more culling :D |
| 11:24.11 | Ivnedar | Cull Counter-Clockwise is amusing :D |
| 11:24.40 | ZorbaGama | yeah I'm gonna guess that doesn't work so well :V |
| 11:24.54 | Ivnedar | It looks cool :D |
| 11:25.02 | Ivnedar | things look like they're inside out |
| 11:25.25 | Repo | rift-meter: chuckySTAR master * v1.1.6 (12 files in 4 directories): [+1 commit] Overall statistics, Text shadows, Added /rm version, /rm default has a confirmation dialog now, Removed SafesRaidManager as a dependency, Several bugfixes |
| 11:25.25 | Repo | rift-meter: chuckySTAR v1.1.6 * 3305f41 /: [new tag] v1.1.6 |
| 11:27.45 | Ivnedar | Hrrm, would playing in wireframe mode be counted as exploiting? |
| 11:27.53 | Ivnedar | I wonder if I can see artifacts easier! |
| 11:27.54 | Ivnedar | brb |
| 11:28.09 | ZorbaGama | Could be, yeah. I don't recommend playing for long periods of time with intel gpa enabled :) |
| 11:28.32 | Ivnedar | I'll just tell the GM that you recommended it! |
| 11:28.43 | ZorbaGama | the key combo you're looking for, btw, is ctrl-shift-c, which will take a snapshot of the next frame, which you can open in the frame analyzer |
| 11:28.56 | Ivnedar | yup yup, playing with that |
| 11:34.00 | Ivnedar | Hrrm, this could be interesting to try when I get rocks/ground/etc disappearing |
| 11:35.25 | ZorbaGama | I'm actually kinda curious what you'd discover |
| 11:35.47 | Ivnedar | Oh, and to answer my earlier question, while you can see artifacts through walls/etc in wireframe, there's no glow and tiny dots come off them, so barely visible even when on top of them :D |
| 11:40.23 | Ivnedar | Would me sending you one of the frame traces be of any use? |
| 11:43.12 | Repo | rift-meter: chuckySTAR master * v1.1.7 (13 files in 3 directories): [+1 commit] Added VinceUtils and two abilities into the filter |
| 11:43.12 | Repo | rift-meter: chuckySTAR v1.1.7 * c712d40 /: [new tag] v1.1.7 |
| 11:54.37 | ZorbaGama | in theory, no, but in practice, maybe. If you can get it to happen I certainly wouldn't object to a frame trace |
| 11:55.02 | ZorbaGama | (trying to open a frame trace on any computer but the generator gives you a ton of warning messages that Bad Things Might Happen, but in practice I've never had a problem with it) |
| 12:09.37 | tubsawubs | Does PIX not exist still for you DX folks? |
| 12:10.20 | ZorbaGama | last time I tried it, it totally failed to work well |
| 12:11.07 | ZorbaGama | the three options I generally have are PIX, NSight, and GPA, and out of those three, GPA has proven by far the most stable and useful |
| 12:13.06 | ZorbaGama | I'm kinda curious what Intel's business model for GPA is - if it's just "make software work better --> more people buy our chips" then I wish they'd opensource the dang thing :V |
| 12:27.21 | tubsawubs | Personally I don't think graphics should exist. Nethack is still the best game ever made and it doesn't have graphics so other games shouldn't need them either! |
| 12:27.29 | Ivnedar | zork! |
| 12:28.18 | tubsawubs | And tadventure games too, ofc! |
| 12:41.00 | NuSuey | give Text-based-RIFT-mmo |
| 12:41.03 | NuSuey | please |
| 12:41.05 | NuSuey | ;) |
| 12:41.12 | NuSuey | that would be fun |
| 12:41.13 | Ivnedar | mobile client! |
| 12:41.21 | NuSuey | Ivnedar: +1 |
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