| 00:13.36 | Ivnedar | so which version of g++ do I need to use to get that snippet to compile? |
| 00:13.42 | Ivnedar | tries a few versions |
| 00:16.42 | seebs | The one I found on codecrap was missing. You do need to wrap it suitably (int main(void) { ... }). |
| 00:17.27 | Ivnedar | my fault, brainfart included stdlib instead of stdio |
| 00:32.15 | Ivnedar | I think we were most amazed that it does trigraph substitution in comments and then reevaluates |
| 00:32.55 | seebs | Well, strictly speaking, it doesn't. |
| 00:33.46 | seebs | At least in C99: Phase 1 is the character set stuff, including trigraphs. Phase 2 is removing backslash-newline. Phase 3 is removing comments. |
| 00:33.52 | Ivnedar | ah |
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| 01:15.44 | Ivnedar | hrrm, lots of proc changes on pts now |
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| 01:53.21 | ZorbaTHut | I'm not sure I've ever seen someone intentionally use trigraphs for a non-trolling purpose |
| 01:53.44 | Ivnedar | probably used more in eu |
| 01:54.09 | seebs | I don't think I've ever even heard of them being used on purpose. They were a really bad solution. The <iso646.h> stuff was better. |
| 01:54.16 | ZorbaTHut | I've actually got a bunch of .eu coding friends, and they have agreed that they've never seen a sensible use |
| 01:55.21 | ZorbaTHut | I think what it comes down to is that if you're a serious coder, then no matter what country you live in, you have some way of easily typing ASCII punctuation |
| 01:55.29 | ZorbaTHut | and if you're not a serious coder then you are definitely not coding in C++ |
| 01:56.12 | ZorbaTHut | maybe if every language had supported the same set of trigraphs for decades then that requirement wouldn't be as strict, but . . . realistically, it's pretty dang strict today, and C++ alone can't buck that trend |
| 01:56.32 | Ivnedar | they're in C as well though |
| 01:56.45 | seebs | They aren't used there either, and were a bad idea. |
| 01:56.51 | seebs | afk briefly, back soonish. |
| 01:56.57 | Ivnedar | fair enough :) |
| 01:57.22 | ZorbaTHut | ah, C90? alright, I thought they were a C++ invention . . . but still, even 1990 was way too late, IMHO |
| 01:57.57 | ZorbaTHut | I kinda wish C/C++ had some sensible formalized method for removing things from the standard so they could get rid of trigraphs eventually :/ |
| 01:58.20 | Ivnedar | c89 apparently |
| 01:58.38 | Ivnedar | I love the gcc comment about it "It also enables the undesirable and rarely used ISO trigraph feature." |
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| 03:50.37 | seebs | Huh, saw an announcement that forum moderation is going to become even less strict, so I guess that answers any remaining questions about the intended direction of the community. |
| 03:53.10 | Ivnedar | "Wow, people still use those forums? Gotta fix that!" |
| 04:00.07 | Ivnedar | I don't think I've ever gotten a response to any of my community@ emails |
| 04:00.16 | Ivnedar | I assumed it was an abandoned address so stopped using it |
| 04:00.29 | Ivnedar | apparently it is manned |
| 04:03.08 | Ivnedar | Sooo, if the community team don't tell the community what the community team does, who will? |
| 04:05.26 | seebs | Squeenix is sort of famed for a lack of hands-on stuff, and they've posted some fairly detailed thoughts on how they moderate and why they do it that way. |
| 04:06.01 | Ivnedar | oops @ german venerated translation bug |
| 04:08.15 | Ivnedar | I guess the "less strict" forums thing is just code for "less people looking at it in a moderation sense" |
| 04:09.32 | Ivnedar | I have a feeling that a lot of the "anger" at elrar leaving was due to elrar feeling like "one of us gamers" |
| 04:09.44 | Ivnedar | the way he came across was as someone who plays and loves games, including rift |
| 04:09.50 | seebs | That, and the way it was handled -- out the door so fast he couldn't even make a good-bye post. |
| 04:10.14 | Ivnedar | yeah, but if he was seen as "just another PR person" then no one would care too much |
| 04:14.04 | Ivnedar | Maybe I'm just projecting my own thoughts onto others :) |
| 04:15.04 | seebs | Nah, I think that's a lot of it. |
| 04:18.03 | Ivnedar | Do the remaining community people play? |
| 04:18.17 | Ivnedar | tbh, not sure if elrar really played, outside of the streams |
| 04:18.22 | Ivnedar | just felt like he did |
| 04:19.17 | seebs | Pretty sure he did. I would even go so far as to say I'm pretty sure he played on Faeblight, but he never said anything that let me guess more. |
| 04:19.39 | Ivnedar | I'd be pretty confident in saying he didn't do any endgame on live |
| 04:19.58 | Ivnedar | but I don't have a problem with that |
| 04:20.23 | seebs | Well, heck. I never made 60. |
| 04:20.56 | Ivnedar | I remember threads starting up when elrar was showing queen's gambit on a stream a few weeks after 2.3 hit |
| 04:21.10 | Ivnedar | and he was working out how to play his class and finding abilities to use one after the other while playing |
| 04:21.27 | Ivnedar | people hassling him for not knowing how to play, my main thought at the time was "but he's actually playing!" |
| 04:21.43 | Ivnedar | which then struck me as odd that that'd make him stand out |
| 04:21.56 | Ivnedar | it's something that shouldn't |
| 04:22.01 | Ivnedar | (to me anyway) |
| 04:22.18 | seebs | Most MMO devs/employees I've known play MMOs, although not always the ones they're working on. |
| 04:29.07 | Ivnedar | lol @ link to Tyrannos' posting history from do you even rift forum |
| 04:29.17 | Ivnedar | thread closed every few minutes |
| 04:30.09 | seebs | Usually, as I recall, for pretty decent reasons. :) |
| 04:30.16 | Ivnedar | yeah |
| 04:31.30 | Ivnedar | mostly pvp rage threads |
| 04:31.42 | Ivnedar | there's a pretty constant stream of them |
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| 05:59.31 | Baanano | why do people blindly believe that 64bit + multicore is better? |
| 06:03.07 | Ivnedar | because bigger is better! |
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| 06:51.01 | seebs | I don't know about *blindly* -- heck, I've done performance tests showing a significant penalty for 64-bit on some targets. |
| 06:51.18 | seebs | But for x86, it's very, very, common for 64-bit code to give you a performance win just because of the usable register and instruction set. |
| 07:04.46 | Baanano | i don't doubt that, done properly, both things could be a performance boost |
| 07:06.47 | Baanano | but maintaining two client versions (32 & 64) in parallel, making sure everything works the same in both versions... |
| 07:10.59 | Baanano | and the multicore thing... it'd need to be a really big performance boost to justify overhauling everything, testing it properly... |
| 07:50.35 | seebs | Well, yes. Which is why it's been Zorba's main task for HOW many months now? :) |
| 07:51.01 | Baanano | too many |
| 07:51.06 | seebs | FF14 is prettier than Rift, and runs with much higher settings, and runs faster with 20+ people on screen fighting than Rift does when I'm soloing. |
| 07:51.13 | Ivnedar | ahh, fun problem, root password for the password store server was stored in the password store |
| 07:51.13 | seebs | There is a lot to be said for optimization! |
| 07:51.24 | seebs | ... whee. |
| 07:51.37 | Ivnedar | password store server's network config was broken and it rebooted |
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| 09:09.19 | Alystin | hrm. Need to tell adelea to give us an option to disable resource tracking in MapPOI |
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| 15:08.19 | tubsawubs | Hello? Unsure if this channel is active at all, have a small question re: frame/mask. |
| 15:27.03 | Baanano | just ask and stay online for a while, somebody will answer, eventually |
| 15:34.39 | tubsawubs | Okey dokey, I have the patience of a rock, so I'm all good. I assume most of the poeple are Americanos, so it's early hours for them. |
| 15:34.54 | tubsawubs | people, even. |
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| 17:12.20 | seebs | Sorta toying with posting an open letter to Hartsman about my concerns, but I honestly sort of doubt it'd do any good at this point. Indeed, I'm not sure at this point that there *is* a path back to a non-LoL community. |
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| 18:13.56 | seebs | http://www.dorkly.com/comic/53558/xbox-live-in-the-mirror-universe |
| 19:02.13 | Imhothar | best disclaimer ever |
| 19:02.17 | Imhothar | "Warning: Outlast contains intense violence, gore, graphic sexual content, and strong language. Please enjoy." |
| 20:20.33 | tubsahubs | :o people are alives |
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