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| 03:13.17 | seebs | I am trying to remember how to make things render behind base UI elements, and failing. I totally thought I knew this once. I think it was something like foo:SetStrata(…) where foo is my UI.CreateContext() object. But I am not sure what strata are used by existing things. |
| 03:23.14 | Noshei_ | most windows use the "dialog" strata |
| 03:23.44 | Noshei_ | so use "tutorial" to go above them or "notify" to go behind them |
| 03:24.34 | seebs | I'm looking at the chat windows, which are apparently "hud", with layers 26-28. And I can't seem to get behind them. |
| 03:26.03 | seebs | ohhh. My context as a WHOLE needs its layer set, too. |
| 03:26.56 | seebs | I still find it very frustrating that the default frames have no way to be opaque, because they use an opacity multiplier against a non-opaque texture. |
| 03:29.10 | seebs | I suppose I should release this as an actual addon that handles things like chat window resizing. |
| 03:29.35 | seebs | But for now I'm just doing it as a riftrc startup code block that puts black boxes behind all the chat windows. |
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| 05:52.57 | Thorarin | Hmm, why are glows much less smooth on some characters compared to others? :S |
| 05:58.38 | Ivnedar | AA settings? |
| 05:58.42 | Ivnedar | or same computer/account? |
| 05:59.03 | Thorarin | Same text frame :) |
| 05:59.33 | Thorarin | Was just playing around with Glow Test |
| 05:59.51 | Ivnedar | so you log in to an alt and it looks different? |
| 05:59.51 | Thorarin | Some characters really stood out... J, j, Q, @ amongst others |
| 05:59.56 | Ivnedar | oooh, sorry |
| 06:00.07 | Ivnedar | now I know what you mean by characters :) |
| 06:00.34 | Thorarin | I was gonna say letters, but @ is not a letter ;) |
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| 11:12.05 | ZorbaBeta | you know it's time to go home when you accidentally forkbomb yourself |
| 11:17.20 | Ivnedar | oops |
| 11:19.38 | Ivnedar | well, we have an old new prime minister |
| 12:31.00 | Ivnedar | lots of rumours about how we should have the previous prime minister, not the current one, so she challenged him, saying whoever loses the leadership ballot would resign from politics, she lost, we're back to the previous prime minister now |
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| 12:40.14 | Wildtide | ZorbaBeta: i've had a bug reported for Gadgets which is a bit odd: http://forums.riftgame.com/technical-discussions/addons-macros-ui/315634-addon-gadgets-34.html#post4340698 |
| 12:40.34 | Wildtide | basically, he's saying that enabling the addon breaks his nameplates |
| 12:50.28 | ZorbaBeta | Huh. That is more than a bit weird. Don't suppose you can reproduce it? |
| 12:50.44 | ZorbaBeta | I'd think it would have been reported *frequently* before this, given how popular Gadgets is |
| 12:52.55 | Wildtide | aye, my first thoughts were "user error" :) |
| 12:53.06 | Wildtide | i can't try to repro it, i'm at work |
| 12:53.18 | ZorbaBeta | yeah, "user error" or "defective hardware/software" |
| 12:53.48 | Wildtide | yup. just seems odd that he seems to be able to make it happen by enabling an addon |
| 12:53.59 | ZorbaBeta | yeah that is pretty dang weird |
| 12:57.36 | Wildtide | on a different topic, and i think i've asked this before, is there a way i can create a frame used only for layout, that has minimal CPU impact? |
| 12:58.13 | Wildtide | i can't make it invisible as it hosts other frames, but if i never assign it a background, does that make it a really lightweight object? |
| 12:59.18 | Wildtide | i'm assuming i can't UI.CreateFrame("Layout"), which would be nice ;) |
| 13:00.20 | Ivnedar | Can you use a frame for positioning that it doesn't host it? |
| 13:00.39 | Ivnedar | and make that invisible |
| 13:00.41 | Wildtide | if i have to, i can... but i'd rather not |
| 13:01.52 | Wildtide | i'm trying to get my frame count down as low as humanly possible, so i'm putting a lot of thought into frame hierarchies. my hope is that a frame with no background is as efficient as an invisible frame, as neither should need to involve Scaleform |
| 13:03.01 | Wildtide | i did a lot of benchmarking over the weekend to get a handle on what's good/bad, but i never did that |
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| 13:05.07 | Wildtide | i did find out that you can get impressively high addon CPU numbers by just having a few boxes on the screen, but switching to the low quality renderer and staring at the floor in a quiet area (so FPS goes really high) |
| 13:06.51 | Wildtide | still, kinda frustrating to have "we need hot tracking" alongside "the cpu is really high". i need to display less, but people want more :( |
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| 13:24.09 | ZorbaBeta | wildtide, Frame is actually what you're looking for - it's pretty dang lightweight. If you're okay with having a weird hierarchy, you can toss layout-only frames under their own tree with SetVisible(false), and that'll make it even faster |
| 13:25.08 | ZorbaBeta | a :SetVisible(false) frame is faster than a frame with no background - unfortunately frames with no background can still contribute to the overall frame hierarchy layout, so they still hit scaleform |
| 13:25.57 | ZorbaBeta | finally, "i need to display less, but people want more :(" welcome to game development :V my main project lately has all been performance, trying to make the game faster while other coders keep adding new chunks of slow code. always fun. |
| 13:27.05 | ZorbaBeta | and all *that* said, I'll try to get Canvas out soon - that'll give you some enormous tools for improving performance |
| 13:27.23 | Wildtide | ah, ok, thanks for clarifying |
| 13:28.07 | Wildtide | part of the reason i want to host elements inside is so that i can turn off the entire subtree by setting the root frame invisible |
| 13:33.22 | ZorbaBeta | yup, that's a good thing to do - invisible elements, especially children of invisible items, are very low cost |
| 13:33.34 | Ivnedar | but you could use a child as the layout anchor? |
| 13:36.57 | ZorbaBeta | yeah, it's important to realize that :setpoint() doesn't care about your hierarchy at all |
| 13:37.37 | Wildtide | it's not so much layout tbh. for example... if a raid frame was made up of 3 major layers, and i wanted to turn each layer on/off separately, that is an extra 3 frames per raid frame that are never seen, or a total of 60 frames |
| 13:38.58 | Wildtide | so i need to gauge what the cost of doing that is, compared to just layering everything using SetLayer() and show/hide individually |
| 13:39.33 | ZorbaBeta | it actually wouldn't surprise me if that was *faster* - it's faster to cut off a single tree than it is to change the visibility of a bunch of elements |
| 13:40.01 | Wildtide | aye, was just gonna say, it sounds like a Frame is cheap enough that the best option is to have them there |
| 13:40.16 | ZorbaBeta | I certainly wouldn't hesitate to put them for now |
| 13:40.30 | ZorbaBeta | I strongly suspect your speed hit is almost entirely tied up in Masks, and maybe in lots of text frames to simulate blur |
| 13:40.53 | Wildtide | aye, i do have lots of masks. no blur text frames any more though at least :) |
| 13:40.55 | ZorbaBeta | if you wanted to test, you could always do something horribly hacky with hooking CreateFrame to make Frame's when you ask for Mask's |
| 13:41.02 | ZorbaBeta | just to compare frame rates |
| 13:41.32 | Wildtide | i've kinda done that already - have my own "elements", and i hacked those to not use masks |
| 13:42.03 | Wildtide | the difference wasn't as exreme as i'd been hoping for, but i think my testing might not have been great. i'll try your approach |
| 13:44.33 | Wildtide | these questions aren't actually related to Gadgets, i'm building a different set of raid frames to tackle the lack of flexibility and performance in Gadgets due to its template approach... so i'm taking the opportunity to squeeze the CPU in every way possible. i have raid frames with no buff handling at about 1.2% in a 15 man WF, which i think is pretty good |
| 13:45.00 | Wildtide | ofc, it's the buffs that are gonna kill it |
| 14:01.47 | Wildtide | ZorbaBeta: when you say "my main project lately", is that RIFT or something else? |
| 14:02.11 | ZorbaBeta | rift, it's just performance stuff on rift instead of addons |
| 14:02.22 | Wildtide | cool :) |
| 14:02.23 | ZorbaBeta | I have not moved onto Defiance or EoN :V they're not even located in the same building |
| 14:02.54 | Wildtide | lol, that's not what i was thinking. i was wondering whether you were talking about Zorba@Trion or Zorba@Mantis |
| 14:03.13 | Wildtide | i've added loads of chunks of slow code to Frames ;) |
| 14:03.30 | Baanano | ZorbaBeta, I guess it's already in the list, but it would be nice to have something to get the category hierarchy (with localized names if possible). Somebody changed the dimension item categories in a recent hotfix and it's a pain to recheck all 1xx categories every week |
| 14:04.01 | Wildtide | *Mandible... no idea where i got Mantis from |
| 14:04.39 | ZorbaBeta | oh, the updated frame event system for Frames - as well as a rename to Frame - is checked in. Haven't gotten compatibility for MSVC in yet, though |
| 14:05.03 | ZorbaBeta | baanano, I think that's on the list, but a lot of things are on the list. Should definitely be possible, I'm kind of surprised it's not in there yet - probably just haven't gotten to it |
| 14:05.05 | Wildtide | nice, i'll get it checked out and update my stuff. better now than later |
| 14:05.19 | Wildtide | i'll send you MSVC diffs in case they're useful |
| 14:05.28 | ZorbaBeta | that said, it should be easy enough to automate the check - just generate a list of things such that you have one thing in each category, then call inspect.item.detail on them twice separated by about a second :V |
| 14:05.40 | ZorbaBeta | wildtide, I've got the previous diffs you sent still, just gotta apply them |
| 14:05.53 | Wildtide | won't they all be out of date now? |
| 14:05.58 | ZorbaBeta | although I think the 0.f/0.f issue is fixed now |
| 14:06.11 | ZorbaBeta | the line numbers technically will be, but whatever, the code isn't *that* changed |
| 14:06.28 | Wildtide | oki, i won't worry about it then |
| 14:06.29 | ZorbaBeta | (the event system is so much cleaner now zomg) |
| 14:06.37 | Wildtide | :D |
| 14:06.48 | ZorbaBeta | yeah, don't worry about it - at some point I'll tell you "msvc should be supported now" and then if it's still broken, let me know what I missed :) |
| 14:07.04 | Wildtide | i have a deferred shader running behind it, which is working really nicely. so much fun to play with |
| 14:07.17 | Baanano | could you link the repo Zorba? i wanted to check but there are glop, glorp, frames and a lot of other stuff and it saiys they are 2 years old |
| 14:07.37 | Wildtide | i got an awesome out-of-focus effect going on last night, by accident, while starting looking at blur/bloom |
| 14:08.26 | ZorbaBeta | baanano, https://github.com/zorbathut/frame |
| 14:08.51 | Wildtide | but the pixel-perfect-picking (try saying that when you're drunk) in 3 lines of code was the best bit |
| 14:08.53 | ZorbaBeta | oh, and I cleaned up the init routines a little bit too, now it's just LuaRegister() and go from there |
| 14:08.58 | Baanano | thanks! |
| 14:09.08 | ZorbaBeta | baanano, np :) feedback welcome! let me know if anything is confusing |
| 14:09.18 | Wildtide | it's all confusing ;p |
| 14:09.38 | ZorbaBeta | wildtide, how's your picking work, out of curiosity? drawing to a buffer, reading a pixel of that buffer back into memory? |
| 14:10.33 | Wildtide | when i do my first pass to generate the diffuse/normal/position buffers, i write an object ID out into a spare alpha channel. then i can just glReadPixels from the texture to get the object ID at that location |
| 14:10.34 | Baanano | sure it's confusing, you should upload the build instructions too :P |
| 14:10.46 | ZorbaBeta | baanano, yeah, I really want to package it together better |
| 14:11.10 | ZorbaBeta | but, build instructions: compile all the .cpp files, toss the headers in an appropriate directory, done. Not as packaged as it could be, but it's not difficult to build. Dependencies are listed in the DEPENDENCIES file :) |
| 14:11.37 | Wildtide | it also meant i could discard fragments with a zero object id in the lighting pass right at the start |
| 14:12.00 | ZorbaBeta | I've got some nice long-term plans to make this really easy to use, but right now I'm just making the code side of it work right. next is examples and utility functions, then a test suite, *then* I worry about packaging |
| 14:12.10 | ZorbaBeta | and given that I have a full-time job and a game studio I'm trying to start, that may take a while :/ |
| 14:13.51 | Baanano | i'll try to build it this evening, if i find any problem i'll ask wildtide :P |
| 14:14.01 | Wildtide | hehe |
| 14:14.08 | Wildtide | Baanano: are you using MSVC? |
| 14:15.25 | Wildtide | ZorbaBeta: one thought i had - do you have any plans to make it DLL-able? |
| 14:15.47 | ZorbaBeta | wildtide, I actually don't really like DLLs :V and it relies a lot on templates which aren't very DLL-friendly |
| 14:15.53 | Baanano | i have it installed, but i'd like to use this mingw stuff |
| 14:16.01 | ZorbaBeta | it's not something I really plan, though if someone has an application where it's actually useful, I might try it |
| 14:16.08 | ZorbaBeta | but I can't imagine what purpose it would serve |
| 14:16.29 | Wildtide | nah, it was just something i thought about briefly. i prefer static myself |
| 14:16.52 | ZorbaBeta | one of the things that constantly bugs me is the LGPL license, which means I have to link things dynamically. it's just a headache. dynamic linking is awful :( |
| 14:17.40 | Wildtide | yep, it's a weird requirement. feels more like "the letter of the law" rather than "the spirit of the law" |
| 14:17.44 | ZorbaBeta | I've seen exactly one benefit to dynamic linking ever, which was that the Google build framework, when running in debug mode, would build most libraries as dynamically linked just so it didn't have to rewrite the entire binary on every line of code change |
| 14:18.08 | ZorbaBeta | which helps a *lot* when you're dealing with 500mb binaries on what is now eight-year-old hardware :V |
| 14:18.17 | Wildtide | wow, ouch |
| 14:18.34 | ZorbaBeta | (that includes debug data, note, so it's not *quite* as bad as it sounds . . . but it was still pretty painful) |
| 14:18.57 | Wildtide | oh, ofc, you used to work at Google didn't you? |
| 14:19.03 | ZorbaBeta | yup, quite a few years back now |
| 14:20.11 | Wildtide | Baanano: should be really painless with MINGW. i put together a makefile which i think i still have lying around |
| 14:21.14 | Baanano | may you pastebin it? |
| 14:23.32 | Wildtide | try this: http://pastebin.com/mRVpAPrc |
| 14:23.52 | Wildtide | i can't remember if i left it in a working state, and it was done with the previous version of Frames |
| 14:24.30 | Wildtide | but if you stick that in frames-master, and try it, it'll either create create lib/LibFrame.a, or it'll fail horribly :) |
| 14:25.17 | Wildtide | it expects an include directory the level above that has all of the dependencies in it |
| 14:25.24 | Baanano | don't worry, i'll ask you if i can't make it run :P |
| 14:25.41 | Wildtide | lol |
| 14:25.58 | Wildtide | my external include directory is 111mb in size, good ol' Boost |
| 14:27.36 | Wildtide | it's not a case of making it run at this point btw, that Makefile will create a lib (will, a .a in MINGW), you need to actually write an app that uses it |
| 14:27.57 | Wildtide | *well, a ".a" file in MINGW |
| 14:32.51 | Thorarin | lol, highlight :) |
| 14:32.52 | Baanano | one step at a time wildtide :P |
| 14:33.12 | Baanano | have to go back to the office, see you later |
| 14:33.19 | Wildtide | cya |
| 14:33.20 | Thorarin | People used to type .a in a channel I hang in to poke people to play DotA :) |
| 14:33.50 | Wildtide | rofl |
| 14:34.06 | Wildtide | Baanano: that make failed on the latest repo |
| 14:34.54 | Wildtide | ah, because i needed to create the build and lib dirs, d'oh |
| 14:35.00 | Wildtide | Zorba sneaked a rename in there |
| 14:35.24 | Wildtide | works fine now |
| 14:38.28 | Wildtide | ZorbaBeta: going back to my deferred shader, is that method of picking common? it seemed a lot simpler (and therefore more efficient) than raycasting |
| 14:39.23 | ZorbaBeta | wildtide, yeah, that basic idea is what a lot of people do. I'm not sure the alpha channel is normally used, but it might be |
| 14:39.30 | Wildtide | the only issue i could see with it was if GL needed to pull the entire texture out of GPU memory so that i could read the single pixel |
| 14:39.44 | Wildtide | it was just a spare channel, could have been anything |
| 14:40.36 | ZorbaBeta | yeah, that's what I'd worry about - reading from textures is *really* dangerous |
| 14:40.58 | ZorbaBeta | we do some wacky swapping and copying on Rift to avoid a performance hit, and we still don't entirely succeed |
| 14:41.31 | ZorbaBeta | if you can, and you care about performance, get ahold of an ATI card to test it on - ATI cards tend to be much worse at dealing with uncommon behavior efficiently |
| 14:42.31 | Wildtide | i might have an old one hanging around somewhere |
| 14:43.47 | ZorbaBeta | that said, if you're just trying to make a game or something, don't worry about it |
| 14:43.57 | ZorbaBeta | only bother with optimizations like that later |
| 14:44.09 | Wildtide | right now, i'm just playing around for my own amusement |
| 14:44.27 | Wildtide | and it's 99.9% likely that that is all i'll ever do :) |
| 14:44.36 | ZorbaBeta | few things are less amusing than attempting to outguess video card drivers ;) |
| 14:44.41 | Wildtide | lol |
| 14:45.55 | Wildtide | one thing i though with deferred shading is the amount of memory the buffers use must be enormous. is that a concern? |
| 14:46.57 | Wildtide | esp when i'm using 4 channel 32 bit per channel buffers :) |
| 14:47.37 | ZorbaBeta | any graphics card you're likely to use deferred shading on has a *ton* of memory onboard |
| 14:47.59 | ZorbaBeta | but yes, it definitely adds up |
| 14:48.34 | Wildtide | actually, i've just done the maths, and i think i've got it wrong - a single buffer @ 1920x1080 is only 32mb ? |
| 14:49.02 | ZorbaBeta | that said, nobody uses 32-bit-per-channel, modern non-professional graphics cards are really slow with that. go with 16bpc if you want HDR |
| 14:49.36 | ZorbaBeta | by my math, 8mb if you want 8bpc, 16mb if you want 16bpc |
| 14:49.40 | Wildtide | yeah, i figured it might be overkill :) |
| 14:49.52 | Wildtide | oh, cool, so it's not a vast amount then |
| 14:50.03 | ZorbaBeta | I've actually never tried Frame on anything besides 8bpc, so if it works, awesome :V |
| 14:50.39 | Wildtide | Frame is running at 8bpc on mine too, these are the G-buffer buffers |
| 14:50.53 | Wildtide | rendertarget is still 32bpp |
| 14:51.20 | ZorbaBeta | ah, nod |
| 14:51.43 | ZorbaBeta | for what it's worth, I believe Rift ends up with 4 or 5 back buffers, and I *think* they're all 8bpc RGBA |
| 14:52.26 | Wildtide | now you mention it, i can't think of anything besides the depth buffer where i need that sort of precision |
| 14:52.35 | Wildtide | so no idea why i went with 32bpc |
| 14:52.44 | ZorbaBeta | generally higher bpcs aren't used for precision, they're used for range |
| 14:52.51 | ZorbaBeta | 16bpc/32bpc are usually floating-point formats |
| 14:53.08 | Wildtide | yep, they are in mine |
| 14:53.19 | Wildtide | i'll hack it around tonight, see what happens |
| 14:53.31 | ZorbaBeta | and that lets you do some really neat visual effects that modern games are using |
| 14:53.41 | ZorbaBeta | although you have to design the game for it, you can't really splice it in after the fact |
| 14:53.47 | Wildtide | yup |
| 15:01.11 | Wildtide | time to head home, laters folks |
| 15:23.07 | Ivnedar | interesting |
| 15:23.17 | Ivnedar | today's patch changed the loading screen |
| 15:23.29 | Ivnedar | crucia's face now, not whole body |
| 15:51.03 | Thorarin | Took them a while :P |
| 15:51.34 | Thorarin | Due to the silly thread about not being family friendly and stuff :S |
| 16:02.25 | seebs | Oh, linking stuff! |
| 16:02.48 | seebs | Observation: There is a lot of conflation of "dynamic" and "shared" linking, because in practice shared linking is fairly hard to do without a dynamic linker. |
| 16:03.41 | seebs | BSD/OS actually had statically-linked shared libraries through some fairly clever dire magic. Linuxy systems often support "prelinking", which means doing the dynamic linker stuff in advance and recording the results in the binary so it is computationally cheaper. |
| 16:04.12 | seebs | The big advantage of dynamic linking is that it lets you fix bugs in a library and have all the things which use it pick up the fixes without being rebuilt. |
| 16:14.54 | Ivnedar | By popular request, Crucia has had her loading screen replaced with a new glamor shot. |
| 16:15.20 | Ivnedar | Fishing: Junk, when fished from pools of wine in Hailol, is now more amusing than previously-fished junk. |
| 16:15.24 | Ivnedar | lol, awesome :D |
| 16:18.06 | seebs | Oooh. |
| 16:18.08 | seebs | Apothecary: New relic-quality Exceptionally White Dye and Exceptionally Black Dye recipes have been added to the Rift Store! The recipes can only be purchased with Master and Grandmaster Marks. |
| 16:18.59 | seebs | That's gonna be of some value. |
| 16:19.28 | Thorarin | k @ Trion support atm |
| 16:19.55 | Thorarin | I submit a ticket about random dungeon bonuses not being awarded for me at some point. |
| 16:20.15 | Thorarin | "Sorry for the late reaction, here's some credits." |
| 16:20.23 | Thorarin | No response to the issue at all :P |
| 16:23.50 | seebs | Given how lagged they are, and how many of the things people have been filing tickets on were bugs that have now been fixed, that's probably reasonable. I regard having tickets mass-auto-closed as an inconvenience, but auto-closed with a 750-credit bonus for waiting is pretty decent. |
| 16:24.05 | seebs | Consider, also: F2P players would get enough loyalty from this to get their account functionality upgrades. |
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| 17:21.04 | Thorarin | Meh |
| 17:53.21 | *** join/#riftuidev Wildtide (~quassel@host86-136-21-161.range86-136.btcentralplus.com) |
| 18:43.00 | *** join/#riftuidev Galuhad (Galuhad@97e11b40.skybroadband.com) |
| 18:45.33 | *** join/#riftuidev Galuhad (Galuhad@97e11b40.skybroadband.com) |
| 18:46.35 | Galuhad | Hi |
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| 18:50.34 | Galuhad | Anyone about? |
| 18:53.30 | Baanano | hi |
| 18:53.49 | Galuhad | :) Hey |
| 18:54.13 | Galuhad | Just wanted to introduce myself to some of you addon developers |
| 18:55.50 | Galuhad | I have written a few addons in the past for Lotro, and really enjoy delving into the APIs and seeing what I can do. I recently started replaying Rift when it went F2P and am hoping to get stuck into the new APIs the game has to offer. |
| 18:57.16 | Baanano | welcome galuhad, nice to meet you |
| 18:57.36 | Galuhad | Thanks. |
| 18:58.24 | Galuhad | I've been trying to sift my way through the addon forums and API documentations etc today, it's a lot to take in. Even though the language is the same, there's a lot of differences lol |
| 19:19.52 | Wildtide | hi there Galuhad :) |
| 19:21.40 | Wildtide | just replied to your post. the answer, i'm afraid, is no we can't do that |
| 19:24.38 | Wildtide | if you want stuff adding to the API, the official method is to repeatedly pester ZorbaBeta in here :D |
| 19:25.35 | Galuhad | lol thanks :) I will try that |
| 19:26.16 | Galuhad | There's certain things the lotro api allows that would be handy here, and to be able to read from the chat channels is actually one of the most useful |
| 19:26.48 | Baanano | oh, i thought here was for suggestions, and the forum for stuff you really want :P |
| 19:27.31 | seebs | Yes, I very much want a chat API, although I recognize there might be issues with it. Although I think the throttling the client already does is probably enough. |
| 19:28.08 | Wildtide | Baanano: technically, yes... but where's the fun in that? We're much harder to ignore in here |
| 19:29.27 | Torhal | I can see it now; ZorbaBeta says "Oops! I _accidentally_ made ALL the AddOn reports go to Wildtide..." |
| 19:29.39 | Wildtide | lol |
| 19:33.34 | Galuhad | Seebs, in lotro it works very well. The API does not allow you to send messages, that would probably tempt to many spammers.. But to read from the channels didn't impact the performance at all. |
| 19:34.28 | Galuhad | It was no different from any other event really |
| 20:12.19 | *** join/#riftuidev Wildtide_ (~quassel@host86-136-21-161.range86-136.btcentralplus.com) |
| 20:23.49 | *** join/#riftuidev Wildtide (~quassel@host86-136-21-161.range86-136.btcentralplus.com) |
| 21:07.00 | Galuhad | I have a question, when I create a RiftWindow, should it move when I drag the window's title bar? Or do I have to manually code that myself? At the moment it's staying put, and I can't seem to see an option for the handling of this generic event. |
| 21:13.52 | Baanano | you have to code it yourself |
| 21:16.29 | Galuhad | damn.. I hoped a RiftWindow would function exactly the same as those in-game without needing extra coding |
| 21:17.44 | seebs | Galuhad: There's a LibDraggable on RiftUI which does that for now, though it needs to be updated for 2.4/2.5. |
| 21:18.03 | seebs | And yeah, I don't think the chat issues are insurmountable. It's honestly the thing I want most at this point, just so I can remake Chatterbox. |
| 21:47.21 | seebs | So I have this idea. |
| 21:47.51 | seebs | My idea is to make an addon which checks for changes to the various UI.Native.Console* frames, and then keeps a set of boxes of some configured color/opacity behind them. |
| 21:48.36 | seebs | For people who want an opaque background, rather than one which shades from opaque to not at all opaque. (Which I still think is the strangest design decision in the Rift UI. Others are weird, but this one seems guaranteed not to make anyone happy.) |
| 21:48.54 | seebs | … especially because the opacity is upside-down, so the newest messages are the least legible. |
| 21:51.29 | seebs | Hey, silly question. Possibly for ZorbaBeta, possibly other people: Is there a way in the API to query what value of "Environment" we should use? |
| 21:51.45 | seebs | I mean, I can just assume "2.4" works, or… wait, I bet it doesn't. Maybe 2.3? I don't know. |
| 21:52.12 | seebs | I do recall at least once PTS wasn't yet updated to the new version, so a PTS-only version of an addon couldn't be configured to not load on an older Rift, like the live tree. |
| 21:52.21 | Galuhad | I'm too much of a noob at Rift addons to offer advice lol. |
| 21:54.11 | seebs | HERESY! PURGE THE UNCLEAN! |
| 21:54.23 | seebs | … wait, this is rift, not 40k. Nevermind. |
| 22:01.46 | Wildtide | i seem to remember ZorbaBeta talking about dropping the Environment thing completely as it's not used for anything |
| 22:02.12 | seebs | I thought that, at the time, if you picked an environment newer than the client, the addon wouldn't load. |
| 22:02.25 | Wildtide | i've never tested it... let's see :) |
| 22:03.01 | Wildtide | i'm trying out a new editor, Sublime 2... it is unbelievably fast to load |
| 22:03.25 | Galuhad | :) |
| 22:03.35 | seebs | I have heard good things about Sublime. I am still using vi, though. |
| 22:03.43 | seebs | Hmm. I don't know how window events work now. |
| 22:04.05 | seebs | I think they got changed up some in the Great Event Overhaul, though. |
| 22:04.31 | Wildtide | you're right - if environment is too high, the addon simply doesn't appear in the list at all |
| 22:05.02 | Galuhad | Probably to make sure they're frequently updated lol |
| 22:05.12 | Wildtide | now i think about it, i think Zorba said he has no plans to prevent an old addon from loading |
| 22:05.37 | Wildtide | which made it kinda pointless, apart from the PTS->Live thing |
| 22:05.50 | Galuhad | I guess when there's significant updates that render old plugins unstable then it's better to avoid them loading |
| 22:06.44 | seebs | Well, currently, the deprecation system pretty much handles that. |
| 22:06.45 | Wildtide | Window events are a lot more wordy to create now. it's a shame that in 99% of cases, the old method was more elegant and perfectly adequate |
| 22:06.51 | Wildtide | yep, true |
| 22:07.06 | seebs | I can live with a little more wordy. |
| 22:07.55 | Wildtide | yep, i can live with it... but taking Gadgets as an example, which is fairly large and complex, i don't actually have a use for bubbling or multi-event handlers anywhere in the code |
| 22:08.51 | Wildtide | which doesn't mean other people don't... but for my own selfish needs, i kinda preferred the old UI events |
| 22:10.48 | Wildtide | anyway... yep, i like sublime. it gives me the lightweight fast Notepad++ functionality, but with really good sidebar folder options which is a must for me when working on addons |
| 22:11.13 | Wildtide | as in, i can pin the addon folder to the list, and get to any file with a single click |
| 22:15.46 | Galuhad | Is it possible to assign a skill or inventory item to the barslots through the API? or even create new bar slots? |
| 22:28.23 | seebs | Not really, but you can make frames where some events have macros attached, I think. |
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| 23:28.17 | seebs | Got interrupted by D&D night, but I am about 1/5 of the way through an addon that adds backdrops to chat windows. |
| 23:28.41 | Noshei | seebs: I think someone already did that |
| 23:28.51 | seebs | I found one that required manual configuration. |
| 23:29.03 | seebs | I want to make one that just magically and always stays caught up with the state of the windows. |
| 23:32.20 | Noshei | fair enough |
| 23:44.26 | Ivnedar | Environment's always worked I thought |
| 23:44.44 | Ivnedar | I've been using it for pts vs live for a while, back when I couldn't work out how to have seperate addon areas between them |
| 23:44.59 | Ivnedar | set the environ on the pts ones to 2.3 and live ones to 2.2 and live client ignores the 2.3 ones |
| 23:47.30 | Noshei | I'm pretty sure the game has never done anything with Environment other than check it if is a valid version number |
| 23:48.12 | Ivnedar | How odd |
| 23:48.19 | Ivnedar | Wonder why it works for me |
| 23:48.56 | Ivnedar | So if you set it to 2.4 on one of your addons, it still shows up and loads happily? |
| 23:51.29 | Ivnedar | oh cool, new world event too |
| 23:51.34 | Ivnedar | for a week |
| 23:51.43 | Noshei | no I'm pretty sure it throws an error or doesn't even show in the addon list |
| 23:52.19 | Ivnedar | Ah well, I'll keep happily using it and wondering why it doesn't work for others :D |
| 23:53.08 | Noshei | it really only has any effect if you try to put in future versions. You could put in like 1.0 and your addon would work just fine. |
| 23:53.25 | Ivnedar | yup, because the game client is > 1.0 |
| 23:54.14 | Ivnedar | I've been keeping it set in mine to the lowest client version that it would run on |
| 23:54.32 | Ivnedar | so when the new text effects came in in 2.3 and I started using them, it got changed to 2.3 |
| 23:54.57 | Noshei | yeah but in reality, an addon writen for 1.0 shouldn't even work and the addon system should not list that addon or list it as too old. |
| 23:55.00 | Imhothar | According to Zorba the Addon system doesn't currently check the Environment string. At least id didnt; 3 months ago |
| 23:55.35 | Noshei | Imhothar: it doesn't check it against deprecation for older versions, it just checks to see if it is a valid game version. |
| 23:55.52 | Noshei | try setting your environment to 2.5 and you will see a problem. |