| 04:27.44 | *** join/#riftuidev Imhothar_ (miranda@ppp-188-174-156-185.dynamic.mnet-online.de) |
| 05:02.32 | *** join/#riftuidev seebs (~seebs@home.seebs.net) |
| 05:02.33 | *** mode/#riftuidev [+o seebs] by ChanServ |
| 06:07.59 | seebs | So, a friend is trying Rift. |
| 06:08.01 | seebs | He helped Scotty out. |
| 06:08.06 | seebs | He got email from Scotty. |
| 06:08.13 | seebs | The email was censored by the profanity filter. |
| 06:41.49 | Ivnedar | lol |
| 06:41.58 | Ivnedar | Potty Mouthed Scotty |
| 06:57.11 | Ivnedar | far out the ignorance on the forums makes me want to scream at times |
| 06:59.28 | seebs | ? |
| 07:58.08 | Ivnedar | oh, the cross faction achievement thread |
| 07:58.35 | Ivnedar | trion forcing achievement hunters to pay for faction transfers over and over to get all the achievements |
| 07:59.05 | Ivnedar | except that they could never get all the achievemnents on one character, now they can |
| 08:26.32 | ZorbaBeta | seebs, at one point I wrote a script that took every bit of in-game text, ran it through the profanity filter, and notified us about any false positives. we fixed most of them. :V |
| 08:26.49 | seebs | sop*homo*re. |
| 08:27.11 | ZorbaBeta | hah, awesome. |
| 08:27.17 | seebs | BTW, speaking of text. |
| 08:27.23 | ZorbaBeta | maybe I should run the script again and send a bug report to someone :P |
| 08:27.28 | seebs | A couple of essences affect "your targets spell power". |
| 08:27.32 | seebs | I have TOTALLY reported that one. |
| 08:29.57 | seebs | Oh BTW. I had not noticed the thing that gives one of my friends a buff to match my mount speed. |
| 08:30.05 | seebs | I have no idea whether that's mentoring or AAF, but it is *awesome*. |
| 08:30.22 | ZorbaBeta | I have no idea either, but I agree it's totally awesome :D |
| 08:31.21 | seebs | AFK a bit, explaining to a bat (nature's Temporary Pet (™)) that we no longer require its services. |
| 08:45.38 | seebs | I think the problem with having "homo" in the filter is that it's gotten ridiculous. That's way too common. |
| 08:45.56 | seebs | It shouldn't be triggering on anything that is ever offensive, it should be sort of narrowly-tailored. |
| 08:46.21 | Ivnedar | you'd also think that it wouldn't be needed on trion supplied content |
| 08:46.30 | seebs | Yeah. |
| 08:46.42 | seebs | Honestly, I think the profanity filter is about 90% bad idea in practice. |
| 08:46.54 | Ivnedar | trying to remember which forum profanity filter replaced ass with butt |
| 08:47.05 | Ivnedar | it had assassins in it, or buttbuttins as it was changed to |
| 08:47.18 | seebs | If you're not logged in, SA changes fuck to gently caress. |
| 08:47.30 | Ivnedar | I'm thinking the butt one was wow? |
| 08:47.55 | seebs | I don't *think* so, but wouldn't know, I never use profanity filters. :) |
| 08:48.21 | Ivnedar | I never have them on, mental one works much better |
| 08:48.58 | Ivnedar | and now that I've updated resource radar for 2.3, it won't load in live, wee :D |
| 08:49.12 | Ivnedar | easy enough to fix now I have seperate addon areas finally |
| 08:49.35 | ZorbaBeta | I think the puzzle pirates filter is my favorite |
| 08:49.43 | ZorbaBeta | it takes all profanity and replaces it with somewhat-applicable pirate slang |
| 08:50.05 | Ivnedar | lol |
| 08:50.43 | seebs | The big problem with filters is that people tend to conclude that, if there's a filter, nothing that triggers it can ever be an offense. |
| 08:51.11 | seebs | Because, as everyone knows, "eat a ****, loser, I ****ed your mom last night and left her twenty five cents" is COMPLETELY INOFFENSIVE. Because of the healing power of asterisks. |
| 08:51.13 | Ivnedar | the people who want to be offensive work around it |
| 08:51.28 | Ivnedar | customer service are usually too over worked to care about someone getting upset |
| 08:52.09 | Ivnedar | "eat a dry biscuit, loser, I danced with your mom last night and left her twenty five cents" |
| 08:52.16 | Ivnedar | I'm thinking puzzle pirates has it right :D |
| 08:52.24 | ZorbaBeta | seebs, the weird part is, the people who would be offended often *aren't* as offended by that. there's a large contingent of people who believe that profanity is bad, not because of the meaning behind it, but because of the individual words used |
| 08:52.30 | seebs | Yeah. |
| 08:52.36 | seebs | Which is mysterious, but okay, they exist. |
| 08:52.42 | ZorbaBeta | and it's those exact people who would read "eat a ****, loser" and say "well, I guess he's being offensive, but at least there weren't any dirty words involved" |
| 08:52.49 | seebs | It's just … I would really like it if the GMs stopped assuming that everyone is like that. |
| 08:52.55 | ZorbaBeta | unfortunately it's also those exact people who tend to be really loud about "won't someone think of the children". |
| 08:53.00 | seebs | And recognized that some of us are offended by the intent and *not* offended by the words. |
| 08:53.01 | Ivnedar | my wife has the filter on all the time, tells people off for mispelling profanities :P |
| 08:53.16 | ZorbaBeta | profanity filters don't exist for you, they exist for the politicians and newspapers. :P |
| 08:53.22 | seebs | Yeah. |
| 08:53.36 | seebs | And honestly, if the GM form letter didn't say to turn your profanity filter on, I wouldn't mind it. :) |
| 08:54.20 | seebs | I distinguish between "swearing" and "swearing at". |
| 08:54.55 | seebs | I think, though, that "homo" is probably not offensive in-and-of-itself, unlike the classic 4-letter words. So once the filter starts getting extended to "anything offensive", it's a problem. |
| 08:55.19 | Ivnedar | it's even more fun when filters are taught profanities in languages other than english |
| 08:55.31 | Ivnedar | when those words are commonly found as substrings in common english words |
| 08:55.39 | ZorbaBeta | actually, there's a whole lot of people who find that offensive |
| 08:55.54 | seebs | I know of lots of people who find the word-itself offensive, but not all the things it's substrings of. |
| 08:56.03 | seebs | People who think "fuck" is offensive will also dislike "motherfucker". |
| 08:56.32 | seebs | People who think "homo" is offensive as a slur are unlikely to complain about sophomore. |
| 08:57.16 | seebs | I guess that's the thing; some words really need to be only-as-discrete-words. |
| 08:57.35 | ZorbaBeta | here's the fun part: list all the words with "homo" contained in them that are offensive |
| 08:57.48 | Ivnedar | some offenseive words really can't be substrings without also being offensive |
| 08:58.01 | Ivnedar | trying to work out something that starts with tofu and ends with ck...something |
| 08:58.06 | seebs | I suspect you can't. But that's partially because the problem is genuinely intractable. |
| 08:58.13 | ZorbaBeta | honestly profanity filters is just a nightmare of a topic. in the end, it's simply not possible to do it accurately, because of the euphemism treadmill |
| 08:58.14 | ZorbaBeta | *nod* yeah |
| 08:58.23 | Ivnedar | really need a profanity neural net |
| 08:58.30 | Ivnedar | let it learn based on context |
| 08:58.33 | Ivnedar | improve over time |
| 08:58.55 | seebs | And to some extent, I think the solution is: Use the filter only for the FCC stuff. For everything else, get complaints, smack people. |
| 08:58.55 | Ivnedar | keep feeding all chat logs through it, maybe some human interaction to show it's still on track |
| 08:59.01 | Ivnedar | push out updates each hotfix |
| 08:59.39 | Ivnedar | though I can see some amusing abuse of it |
| 09:00.01 | Ivnedar | people know it exists, start substituting "leaf" for "fuck" and it learns that they mean the same thing and to filter leaf |
| 09:00.04 | Ivnedar | :P |
| 09:00.48 | Ivnedar | personally customisable filter lists may work |
| 09:01.02 | Ivnedar | if you see something offensive, you can add it to your list |
| 09:01.06 | Ivnedar | make it account bound |
| 09:01.12 | Ivnedar | like an ignore list, but for words |
| 09:01.43 | Ivnedar | which, we could do if addons had access to chat feeds ;) |
| 09:02.44 | ZorbaBeta | on the list, eventually ;) |
| 09:03.09 | Ivnedar | and I've managed to end up with my 2.3 only addons in my RIFT documents area and my old 2.x ones in my RIFT PTS area ... |
| 09:03.33 | seebs | BTW, mentoring really does work quite nicely for hanging out with a friend. She just made 18. I just made 44. It is working well. |
| 09:06.31 | seebs | heh |
| 09:06.43 | seebs | The point-counting mismatch in the spec window is still there. I think I reported it in Beta 6. |
| 09:14.05 | seebs | So, funny thing my friend noticed. |
| 09:14.18 | seebs | Ascend-a-friend gives you a +XP until level 20 trinket. |
| 09:14.23 | seebs | Which you can't equip on a trial account. |
| 09:17.58 | Ivnedar | hrrm, Gadgets_Buffs error |
| 09:21.30 | Ivnedar | are 'player.target' type unit specifiers legal anywhere it wants a unit id? |
| 09:29.36 | Ivnedar | hrrm, dendrome's undiscovered again |
| 09:48.36 | ZorbaBeta | ivnedar, yep, should be |
| 09:49.55 | Ivnedar | Parameters: "player.target", "b800000040FA8A08C" |
| 09:50.07 | Ivnedar | guessing player.target lost its unit the same time that mouseover happened |
| 09:50.43 | Ivnedar | Command.Tooltip() |
| 09:53.20 | Ivnedar | One day I'll remember to put track fishing back up after going into cq :( |
| 10:06.21 | seebs | I am trying to figure out whether my friend who is on a free trial will benefit in any obvious way from buying a Rift box at this point. |
| 10:06.54 | seebs | So far as I can tell, since he's now got "a Rift account", even though it's capped at level 20 and can't wear purples, as of F2P he has no limits on level or equipment, but keeps 6 character slots and 5 bag slots per character. |
| 10:07.00 | Ivnedar | depending on the box price, may get a cheap month of patron bonus |
| 10:11.15 | seebs | $10. |
| 10:11.30 | seebs | I might see if I can order a bunch of Rift boxes from some retailer on clearance and have codes I can give newbies. |
| 10:38.22 | Ivnedar | wow, tonight's a bad raid night |
| 10:38.29 | Ivnedar | failing on hot potato and lever clicking ... |
| 10:38.32 | Ivnedar | in todq |
| 10:40.16 | *** join/#riftuidev Wildtide (~quassel@host31-52-98-144.range31-52.btcentralplus.com) |
| 11:26.41 | Ivnedar | well, our tdq run has taken longer than our FT run so far! |
| 11:26.49 | Ivnedar | wonder if it'll overtake our EE run |
| 11:43.10 | Ivnedar | Wildtide: want to know about a Gadgets:Buffs error? |
| 11:43.16 | Ivnedar | or you'll get it in the reports anyway |
| 11:50.35 | Ivnedar | yup, it took us 10 mins longer to do ToDQ this week than EE |
| 12:01.16 | Ivnedar | 1:20 FT, 1:40 EE, 1:50 ToDQ |
| 12:01.19 | Ivnedar | ... |
| 12:15.08 | ZorbaBeta | ivnedar, bad luck, or crummy play? |
| 12:15.27 | Ivnedar | 1 person drunk, 2 people on low gear alts, 1 person afk on /follow |
| 12:15.34 | Ivnedar | and general inattention |
| 12:15.38 | ZorbaBeta | sucks :/ |
| 12:15.44 | ZorbaBeta | then again, not surprising right before a patch |
| 12:15.48 | Ivnedar | yeah |
| 12:15.59 | Ivnedar | tonight's our main 4 hour raiding night |
| 12:16.07 | Ivnedar | but we cleared FT/EE on our farm night |
| 12:16.11 | Ivnedar | so people not really here :P |
| 12:16.27 | Ivnedar | and since Trion fixed the instance lock reset bug, we couldn't do it again ;) |
| 12:16.35 | Ivnedar | for which I'm very grateful for! |
| 12:17.24 | Ivnedar | (If you didn't see it, the DC crashes this weekend reset everyone's instance locks) |
| 12:21.09 | ZorbaBeta | whoops :) |
| 12:21.15 | Ivnedar | yeah |
| 12:21.34 | Ivnedar | some guilds managed to get a few more bosses down |
| 12:21.44 | Ivnedar | ah well, no big deal this close to 2.3 I guess |
| 12:48.35 | Ivnedar | new way to troll raid |
| 12:48.45 | Ivnedar | someone summons to life raid rift, tank accepts, drops all aggro instantly |
| 17:33.05 | *** join/#riftuidev PrivateSniper (~Sniper@cpc3-sund10-2-0-cust230.11-1.cable.virginmedia.com) |
| 17:34.34 | PrivateSniper | hey all |
| 18:23.28 | *** join/#riftuidev Imhothar (miranda@ppp-188-174-156-185.dynamic.mnet-online.de) |
| 18:39.54 | *** join/#riftuidev Imhothar (miranda@ppp-188-174-156-185.dynamic.mnet-online.de) |
| 19:18.07 | *** join/#riftuidev Noshei (~quassel@c-24-9-171-99.hsd1.co.comcast.net) |
| 19:47.46 | Wildtide | hey Ivnedar, i'd love to hear about a Buffs bug :) |
| 19:48.12 | Wildtide | wow, only a 7 hour delay on me answering that |
| 19:49.52 | Wildtide | i suspect i may be procrastinating on Gadgets updates atm. sat down to do some work on it, and then spent 2 hours learning how to do airfield circuits properly in X-Plane |
| 19:56.52 | Thorarin | :> |
| 20:58.26 | *** join/#riftuidev NuSuey (uid3556@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-dtqxjcibmjaeggmg) |
| 21:27.25 | *** part/#riftuidev PrivateSniper (~Sniper@cpc3-sund10-2-0-cust230.11-1.cable.virginmedia.com) |