| 00:02.19 | Noshei | hey ZorbaGama any luck on getting time to work on roles api? |
| 00:06.36 | Ivnedar | thinks he can guess the answer :( |
| 00:47.27 | seebs | oooh |
| 00:48.00 | seebs | Profession slots: You can unlock up to all nine for a single character. |
| 00:48.27 | Ivnedar | yup yup! no more need for alts! |
| 00:48.36 | Ivnedar | works out around $7/slot for me |
| 00:56.09 | Noshei | I'm very tempted to do that, but having to relevel all of the professions on my main would be a huge pain in the ass |
| 00:56.26 | Noshei | especially gathering and skinning |
| 00:56.40 | Ivnedar | I refused to get into the crafting all game |
| 00:56.42 | Ivnedar | now I win! |
| 00:57.02 | Noshei | I have every craft maxed between 4 characters |
| 00:57.22 | Noshei | and 2 of those characters are on my second account |
| 00:58.16 | Ivnedar | *nod* |
| 00:58.23 | Ivnedar | It's a nice option still |
| 00:58.32 | Noshei | yeah |
| 00:58.56 | Noshei | I'm really looking forward to 20 role slots, finally i'll be able to play w/e I want when I want |
| 00:59.13 | Noshei | and not be bogged down with having 4 tank roles, as a cleric. |
| 01:00.49 | Noshei | though I'm really hoping that ZorbaGama is able to give us a bit better roles API by 2.3 so I can make an addon to help manage all the roles im going to have |
| 01:11.23 | seebs | I'd love tools for sharing role info with other people. |
| 02:09.51 | Noshei | We are extending core bank space - however shared bank isn't something that will be in 2.3~Daglar |
| 02:10.00 | Noshei | That sounds like it may happen at some point in time |
| 02:10.21 | seebs | Shared bank is SO amazingly useful. |
| 02:10.27 | seebs | One of the things DDO does better. :) |
| 03:06.05 | Ivnedar | role api would be really nice, role sharing is something I've wanted to do too! |
| 03:06.17 | Ivnedar | maybe in 2.4 |
| 03:06.22 | Ivnedar | if we get ZorbaGama back :D |
| 03:09.10 | Torhal | There is no ZorbaGama - there is only Zuul. |
| 03:22.25 | Ivnedar | Noshei: the crowdsourcing engineering stuff would be via addon api I imagine, but they'd need to make a lot of changes to be able to add useful features like that sort of thing |
| 03:23.18 | Ivnedar | invest more time/resources into getting the addon api really really flexible and full of stubs/data |
| 03:23.27 | Ivnedar | let the addon authors do the ui features that are missing |
| 03:23.35 | Ivnedar | Can't see it happening :( |
| 03:24.31 | Ivnedar | You'd go down the wow addon path though I guess, kinda had to be decided on at the start, not a few years in |
| 03:25.52 | Ivnedar | Now I'm wondering about an mmo where there's a basic client offered, but people can write their own client from scratch/framework if they want |
| 03:26.03 | Ivnedar | go the complete extreme of flexibility |
| 03:26.44 | Ivnedar | would be an interesting project :) |
| 03:59.14 | *** join/#riftuidev Torhal` (Torhal@2a00:1a28:1101:3e6::1) |
| 04:07.39 | *** join/#riftuidev seebs (~seebs@home.seebs.net) |
| 04:07.39 | *** mode/#riftuidev [+o seebs] by ChanServ |
| 04:08.44 | *** join/#riftuidev Torhal (Torhal@2a00:1a28:1101:3e6::1) |
| 04:08.44 | *** mode/#riftuidev [+v Torhal] by ChanServ |
| 04:21.26 | *** join/#riftuidev ZorbaBeta (tocohl@maximilian.pavlovian.net) |
| 05:35.52 | seebs | While/query ZorbaBeta |
| 05:35.56 | seebs | argh |
| 05:36.22 | Ivnedar | busted! |
| 05:36.47 | seebs | heh |
| 05:44.27 | *** join/#riftuidev dolby (~dolby-wow@MMOI/Administrator/pdpc.silver.dolby) |
| 05:44.27 | *** mode/#riftuidev [+o dolby] by ChanServ |
| 12:48.31 | Solsis|zzz | Shared bank would be great. As long as it isn't only 20 slots and you pay money for more.. ugh that sucked. But it would be awesome and useful. |
| 12:48.53 | Solsis|zzz | even if you had a separate smaller bank that is account bound kind of like Aion did. That would even work |
| 12:49.16 | Solsis|zzz | Anyways.. off to sleep. See you all in a while. |
| 12:51.21 | Ivnedar | nite :) |
| 12:51.41 | Solsis|zzz | zzzzz |
| 12:52.13 | Solsis|zzz | :P |
| 15:34.09 | *** join/#riftuidev seebs (~seebs@home.seebs.net) |
| 15:34.10 | *** mode/#riftuidev [+o seebs] by ChanServ |
| 15:39.47 | *** join/#riftuidev Torhal` (Torhal@2a00:1a28:1101:3e6::1) |
| 15:39.47 | *** mode/#riftuidev [+v Torhal`] by ChanServ |
| 15:43.47 | *** join/#riftuidev Torhal` (Torhal@2a00:1a28:1101:3e6::1) |
| 15:43.47 | *** mode/#riftuidev [+v Torhal`] by ChanServ |
| 20:48.37 | seebs | http://forums.riftgame.com/public-test-shard/360742-pts-update-2-3-patch-notes-round-1-a.html#post4266271 <-- huuuuuge patch notes |
| 20:48.55 | seebs | Well, not really, but they're the preview of what Elrar said was 26 pages of notes. :) |
| 20:52.05 | Baanano | i find the lua lanes thing far more interesting :P |
| 20:58.19 | ZorbaBeta | weird, computer has rebooted two days in a row |
| 21:01.35 | Baanano | summer is coming |
| 21:06.33 | seebs | 2.3 is making porticulum masters faction-agnostic. We are getting really close to what I want, which is that if I'm not flagged, faction NPCs leave me alone. :) |
| 21:09.01 | seebs | I note that Daglar seems a little mama-bearish towards the team members. People who insult devs that aren't Daglar tend to get sorta snarked at. I approve of this behavior. |
| 21:48.48 | *** join/#riftuidev Torhal` (Torhal@2a00:1a28:1101:3e6::1) |
| 21:48.48 | *** mode/#riftuidev [+v Torhal`] by ChanServ |
| 22:28.43 | seebs | I recall being told that font rendering is pricey in Rift. Well, in basically everything. |
| 22:29.05 | ZorbaBeta | fonts are kind of a nightmare everywhere, really |
| 22:29.25 | ZorbaBeta | it's about as good in rift as you'll get without caching entire lines, as long as you're not changing font settings often, at least. |
| 22:29.58 | seebs | If I have something that I know will always display, say, 4-digit numbers with decimal points, and make 11 textures for those with pre-rendered numbers/decimal points, and just render adjacent frames that have been :setPointed to each other, will that be any better? |
| 22:30.30 | seebs | Oh, and when you say "changing font settings": Font face and size are font settings. Is rendering color a font setting? |
| 22:30.31 | ZorbaBeta | probably worse, honestly, you'd just be recreating the font cachine system |
| 22:30.43 | ZorbaBeta | color doesn't matter, they're cached as alpha-channel-only |
| 22:30.47 | seebs | Okay. |
| 22:30.53 | ZorbaBeta | there's some special effects coming up that *do* matter, though |
| 22:31.17 | ZorbaBeta | (things like shadowing and glow and other fancy stuff - watch PTS) |
| 22:31.37 | seebs | Because I've got stuff that really would ideally like to be able to change size frequently, and if scaling an image up or down is cheaper than redoing the font rendering, that might be worth it. |
| 22:31.52 | ZorbaBeta | Hmm. Maybe. At that point, I'd say "benchmark it". |
| 22:31.57 | seebs | Sounds like a plan. |
| 22:32.13 | seebs | Background: I'm displaying distance from one character to another, pretty much every frame. I want it to be larger if it's outside a given range. |
| 22:32.36 | seebs | I have written a glow shader in GLSL. It was… a lot of work, for me. |
| 22:32.39 | ZorbaBeta | if you have a small number of fixed sizes I'd just let the rift text renderer do it |
| 22:32.55 | seebs | It ends up using, I think, four intermediate frame buffers for the effect I want. |
| 22:32.58 | seebs | Maybe five. |
| 22:33.02 | seebs | I will be working on improving that later. |
| 22:33.09 | ZorbaBeta | if you're trying to do things like smooth interpolation across many frames then maybe pregenerated textures would make sense. but, really, just see what the built-in one does first :) |
| 22:33.39 | seebs | I was doing that at one point. |
| 22:34.07 | seebs | Things would "pulse" from about 20 to about 48 points and back to demand attention. |
| 22:34.18 | seebs | It wasn't *awful*, but the machine wasn't exactly heavily loaded. |
| 22:34.57 | seebs | I may get a chance to go back and kick that around more. I think I had gotten stuck on coming up with a remotely sane protocol for sharing quest completion data between clients without spam. |
| 22:35.10 | *** join/#riftuidev Rhakka (~neura@tyrael.wheee.org) |
| 22:35.30 | ZorbaBeta | I'd follow the quake3 network protocol on that one, personally |
| 22:36.20 | ZorbaBeta | there we go, found it - http://trac.bookofhook.com/bookofhook/trac.cgi/wiki/Quake3Networking |
| 22:36.40 | ZorbaBeta | works great with UDP so you can use the non-guaranteed Broadcast system |
| 22:37.04 | seebs | Oooh, pretty. |
| 22:37.20 | seebs | Of course, then I have to figure out a clean way to express deltas. But that's not awful. |
| 22:37.44 | seebs | BTW, did you see the notes about an upcoming feature in or shortly after 2.3, wherein many reports => chat squelch? |
| 22:37.50 | ZorbaBeta | it's almost easy to do it natively with lua structures - the only tricky part is coming up with a way to express explicit nil |
| 22:38.11 | ZorbaBeta | but that's easily solvable with a few small assumptions about valid keys and values |
| 22:38.13 | seebs | Elrar specifically *stated* that there is to be work on making this hard to abuse, and yet people kept saying "I bet they haven't realized that this could be abused". Heh. |
| 22:38.18 | seebs | Yeah. |
| 22:38.28 | seebs | Huh. I wonder. |
| 22:38.57 | ZorbaBeta | yeah people always simultaneously overestimate and underestimate the difficulty of making abuse-proof systems :V |
| 22:39.15 | seebs | Right now, every frame, LibBaggotry checks a value which indicates whether any inventory events came in, and if they did, it grabs a new copy of the entire Inspect.Item.Detail() tree. |
| 22:39.25 | ZorbaBeta | it's always either "assuming that all people are non-malicious, my idea is great!" or "IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO DEAL WITH ABUSE EVER" |
| 22:39.32 | ZorbaBeta | while the reality is always a bit between those. |
| 22:39.45 | seebs | This is way cheaper than doing it every event, but it's probably still pricey, since so many things don't change anything. |
| 22:40.04 | seebs | Hmm. *thinks* I wonder whether it is *possible* for the bank state to change when I'm not interacting with the bank. Probably. |
| 22:40.20 | ZorbaBeta | guild bank or personal bank? |
| 22:40.22 | seebs | And yeah. "It can't be perfect, let's do nothing!" is not a winning strategy. |
| 22:40.24 | seebs | Personal. |
| 22:40.34 | seebs | I can't *think* of a way to change it without the interaction flag. |
| 22:40.46 | seebs | But I can imagine, say, it might change while offline in some cases. |
| 22:40.47 | ZorbaBeta | actually, I make no guarantee this will always be the case, but ATM the personal bank is always updated on the client even if you aren't at the bank |
| 22:40.53 | seebs | Right. |
| 22:41.00 | ZorbaBeta | it's just as up-to-date as inventory bags are |
| 22:41.13 | seebs | What I'm wondering is whether I should skip the update in the case where you're not at the bank. |
| 22:41.23 | seebs | Right now, I'm not distinguishing, I just grab the whole tree. It's really fast, I don't care. :) |
| 22:42.02 | seebs | I suspect changes to # of bag slots will break something somewhere. |
| 22:42.40 | ZorbaBeta | yeah I haven't looked into that yet :V do you know what it is we're doing? 'cause I'll admit I don't |
| 22:43.08 | seebs | I *think* it was just that there may be more bag slots purchaseable, and bank size may increase. |
| 22:43.21 | seebs | So it may be that there will be 7 bags instead of 5 or something. |
| 22:43.30 | ZorbaBeta | yeah, that'll just flat-out not work right now, but easy enough to fix |
| 22:43.33 | seebs | Oh, and profession slots, so in theory a character can have all 11 professions. |
| 22:43.43 | seebs | Well, 9 professions, plus fishing and survival. |
| 22:43.57 | seebs | Although I have not yet seen an answer as to whether the extra profession slot is per-character or per-account. |
| 22:44.06 | ZorbaBeta | I'll admit I'm kind of glad I hadn't made the profession and crafting APIs yet. |
| 22:44.17 | ZorbaBeta | er, merchant and crafting |
| 22:44.50 | seebs | Yeah. Lots of changes to be had there. |
| 22:45.26 | seebs | So, idle question: If I do something and I get a red message on my screen that is an error message of some sort (e.g. "You must be facing your target"), is there any way to see that message from an addon? |
| 22:45.41 | ZorbaBeta | not atm |
| 22:45.50 | seebs | I have a lot of trouble with simply failing to see those messages when the screen's busy, and would like a way to interact with them better. |
| 22:45.59 | ZorbaBeta | 'least, I don't think so - if it's not in the existing Event.Chat.*, then no, and I don't think it is yet |
| 22:46.09 | seebs | Rift is a beautiful game, but it's not super friendly to sensory integration problems. :) |
| 22:46.34 | seebs | You know the red-pulsy-sphere auras some bosses and zone event mobs use for ground effects and AoEs you're supposed to move out of? |
| 22:46.43 | ZorbaBeta | yeah, sensory stuff can be a nightmare to deal with. game developers have spent so long coming up with clever tricks to quietly signal important game state |
| 22:46.50 | seebs | I didn't know those existed for like six months. |
| 22:46.59 | ZorbaBeta | and it turns out that many of those tricks thoroughly break down the instant you get someone with nonstandard senses |
| 22:47.17 | seebs | I finally happened to see one during a really quiet event, and then I was like OH I GET IT!!?! |
| 22:47.43 | seebs | Conveniently, the way my sensory inputs work, *now* I can see them just fine except in fire rifts. |
| 22:48.18 | seebs | I had a lot of trouble with that in WoW until I found people who were willing to believe that I was not just messing with their heads. |
| 22:48.23 | ZorbaBeta | in fairness they're pretty hard to see in fire rifts no matter what |
| 22:48.34 | seebs | "If there's stuff I need to move out of, please tell me what color they'll be and roughly what they look like so I can see them." |
| 22:49.08 | seebs | Apparently, *most* people will notice if their screen is about 70% full of bright purple fire without being told in advance that the fire in this fight is purple. |
| 22:49.31 | ZorbaBeta | hah |
| 22:49.39 | ZorbaBeta | yeah, I can see how that would be an issue |
| 22:50.22 | seebs | I should check the state of unit frame mods these days. I was MUCH better at WoW once I found a thing that gave me plain untextured bars. |
| 22:50.38 | seebs | With numbers. NUMBERS ARE AWESOME. |
| 22:52.18 | ZorbaBeta | good news for you, plain untextured bars is something the rift addon system is really good at right now ;) |
| 22:52.43 | seebs | Yeah, I think there were issues with trying to replace the basic frames or something. I don't remember anymore. I haven't tried for a while. |
| 22:53.24 | seebs | BTW, on the topic of sensory stuff: I believe I've been told that back in beta, the color-coding in the crafting UI was invisible to colorblind folks, but that it has been improved in some way so they can use it better. I don't know for sure about the fix. |
| 22:53.43 | seebs | I do know that the green and orange used originally would have been invisible to my colorblind friend. |
| 22:53.59 | seebs | Cool thing: Hang around with a colorblind guy for a few years, and you develop the ability to see "these colors will look the same to Dave". |
| 22:54.13 | seebs | Although the hot pink frisbee he couldn't see on spring green grass was a shock regardless. |
| 22:54.52 | Baanano | pink = green for him? :O |
| 22:55.14 | seebs | Basically, the red/green distinction is lost. And pale-red and pale-green turn out to be pretty much the same color. |
| 22:55.21 | ZorbaBeta | the real, and somewhat unfortunate, trick is that you display all information two ways - a convenient and intuitive way for people who can see color, and an inconvenient way for people who can't, because often there just isn't a convenient way to do it |
| 22:55.25 | seebs | So he *could* see it, if it were up close. But it doesn't stand out that way. |
| 22:55.47 | seebs | Yeah. And I actually benefit a lot from that because even though I see color fine, I see text *better*. |
| 22:56.16 | seebs | … I see now your sinister plot. |
| 22:56.29 | seebs | You're going to hang out in IRC and be interesting until I starve to death from not going to make dinner. |
| 22:56.33 | seebs | Well, it's not working! |
| 22:56.44 | ZorbaBeta | *laugh* will do my best :D |
| 23:10.47 | *** join/#riftuidev Noshei (~quassel@c-24-9-171-99.hsd1.co.comcast.net) |
| 23:56.21 | Ivnedar | morning all! |
| 23:57.23 | Noshei | afternoon |
| 23:58.56 | Ivnedar | I was a bit sad when I tried the new carnage quests, they're over so quick! |
| 23:58.59 | Ivnedar | hides |
| 23:59.22 | Noshei | that makes me way happy |
| 23:59.37 | Ivnedar | the old "kill 20 of x" is now "kill 8 of x" |
| 23:59.50 | Ivnedar | in Dendrome at least |