| 01:12.57 | ZorbaBeta | fun fact, there's half a dozen lua files that are in plaintext in the rift datafiles. they start with a note to the reader that if they find any bugs, please let me know |
| 01:13.10 | ZorbaBeta | (wasn't worth encrypting them, and I'm careful to keep anything sensitive out of them :P) |
| 01:13.51 | ZorbaBeta | there's nothing particularly wtf-worthy about the fudged-population function, IMHO. games do stuff like that all the time. the numbers you see are made-up anyway |
| 01:17.53 | Noshei | what fudged-population function? |
| 01:45.07 | ZorbaBeta | http://www.reddit.com/r/SimCity/comments/1a8pw6/proof_of_population_inflation/ - the simcity community has been all up in arms about this |
| 01:45.20 | ZorbaBeta | but honestly I think they're nuts |
| 01:45.31 | ZorbaBeta | there are perfectly good reasons to be annoyed about the simcity development, this is not one of them :V |
| 01:46.06 | Noshei | ah |
| 01:47.43 | Noshei | ZorbaBeta: you should make a video explaining how we use the new event system, that would be super helpful |
| 01:47.56 | ZorbaBeta | that's what the sticky and the examples are for :V |
| 01:48.14 | Noshei | yeah but youtube is awesome |
| 01:48.32 | ZorbaBeta | I did a bit of streaming of game development a while back. need to do more of that |
| 01:54.28 | Ivnedar | ZorbaBeta: the wtf-worthy bit about it is how they were advertising the game as having every person in the population act as an autonomous agent |
| 01:54.50 | Ivnedar | which is technically true, if you ignore the fudged numbers |
| 01:55.10 | ZorbaBeta | yeah, I feel like the biggest mistake they've made has been advertising |
| 01:55.42 | Ivnedar | which felt like marketing/distribution having a different idea about the game to the developers |
| 01:57.21 | Ivnedar | must admit, I've never tried looking inside the rift datafiles |
| 01:57.31 | Ivnedar | I assume the client would complain if they were changed :P |
| 02:00.07 | Imhothar | Having a tool to extract those Lua files would be interesting ;) |
| 02:03.19 | ZorbaBeta | I actually have no idea if it checks. Probably. |
| 02:03.28 | ZorbaBeta | And they're not particularly interesting files, really. |
| 02:03.48 | Ivnedar | No backing out now! Curiousity is peaked |
| 02:04.09 | Ivnedar | hrrm, hadn't noticed the assets/map/shadowlands before |
| 02:04.19 | Ivnedar | not that there's anything in it, and it's probably been around for years |
| 02:06.04 | Ivnedar | I'd assumed that every game does a checksum over its datafiles when it starts up |
| 02:06.14 | Ivnedar | naive I guess :) |
| 02:07.12 | Imhothar | they wouldn't need that fudging function if the lots were simply 10x bigger |
| 02:07.19 | Imhothar | to get the size of ACTUAL cities |
| 02:07.27 | Ivnedar | you mean BigMap? |
| 02:07.34 | Ivnedar | apparently also disabled by the javascript |
| 02:07.46 | Imhothar | dunno, I didn't bother t pay 60 for it |
| 02:07.59 | Ivnedar | Probably a future functionality they'd bring in once it settled down |
| 02:08.26 | Ivnedar | With the terraforming |
| 02:08.46 | ZorbaBeta | ivnedar, you can't do a checksum over all the datafiles, it'd just take too long. do a full scan of your rift files someday, it's easily a several-minute process |
| 02:08.53 | ZorbaBeta | that said, it may well checksum things as they're being loaded |
| 02:08.55 | Ivnedar | *nod* |
| 02:09.15 | ZorbaBeta | as for simcity, from what I hear it's a CPU hog already - it probably couldn't handle 10x bigger cities |
| 02:09.19 | Ivnedar | that was more what I was getting at |
| 02:09.28 | ZorbaBeta | plus a lot of the simcity mechanics get kind of boring as things get bigger |
| 02:09.29 | Ivnedar | per object or worst case, per file, but not the whole thing |
| 02:09.42 | ZorbaBeta | to be honest, I see SimCity 5 as being an attempt to integrate the best of the Anno series into SimCity |
| 02:09.45 | ZorbaBeta | somewhat unsuccessfully |
| 02:09.48 | Imhothar | to me those city lots look like they are like a square mile |
| 02:10.00 | ZorbaBeta | but a lot of the things people are complaining about are basically Anno tropes, ported to SimCity. |
| 02:10.24 | Imhothar | Cities XL was a nice try at city building. too bad they went bankrupt |
| 02:11.22 | Imhothar | I liked it, but it was completely singlethreaded |
| 02:11.26 | ZorbaBeta | I kinda got the feeling cities XL didn't have an identity of its own. it was basically "hey, let's make simcity" |
| 02:11.42 | Imhothar | barely playable when the city grows a lot |
| 02:12.02 | Imhothar | well they did things differently though |
| 02:12.19 | Imhothar | most importantly getting rid of the square grid |
| 02:12.51 | Imhothar | but yes, in summary it was just "yet another city builder" |
| 02:13.42 | ZorbaBeta | I feel like, in a lot of ways, the basic mechanics of original simcity are hamstringing the franchise |
| 02:14.12 | ZorbaBeta | simcity was developed way back before we had any sense of what made games "fun", built as a simulation and nothing more. the problem is you can't develop a modern big-budget game as a simulation. it *has* to be fun |
| 02:14.36 | ZorbaBeta | the problem is if they try making it more fun, the old guard gets angry, and if they leave it as a simulation, nobody buys it. they sorta tried to balance the two with sc5 |
| 02:15.28 | Ivnedar | here we go, a quickbms script for rift's twad files |
| 02:15.29 | ZorbaBeta | other citybuilders like anno and caesar at least had interesting citybuilding game mechanics, simcity never really did |
| 02:16.32 | ZorbaBeta | (as a side note, I think it's absolutely fascinating that people are saying "simcity 5 sucks, you should play simcity 4! it's a much better game! but first, install all these mods that completely change the game in every way, it's not fun otherwise") |
| 02:53.28 | Ivnedar | multiple, slightly different extraction scripts |
| 02:53.37 | Ivnedar | guessing I need to play a bit to try and get real files out of it |
| 03:18.03 | ZorbaBeta | it wouldn't surprise me if we've changed the format at least once |
| 03:18.09 | ZorbaBeta | I know the streaming client changes were pretty major |
| 03:18.47 | Ivnedar | looks mostly the same, just the offsets aren't right |
| 03:18.51 | Ivnedar | file magic in the middle of files |
| 03:20.43 | Ivnedar | assuming the version is still the first long after the idstring, it's still version 1 |
| 03:29.21 | Noshei | what are you using to open the data files? |
| 03:32.20 | Ivnedar | quickbms in the first pass, now I'm playing around by hand to work out how the offsets work |
| 03:35.26 | Ivnedar | http://www.progamercity.net/game-files/5379-info-rift-planes-telara-assests-pak-unpack-script.html |
| 03:35.30 | Ivnedar | that was my starting point |
| 03:40.30 | Ivnedar | does look like the 4th long is the number of files though |
| 03:40.36 | Ivnedar | not the 3rd |
| 03:53.21 | Ivnedar | first three longs after the magic are the same, so could be all the version components |
| 03:53.33 | Ivnedar | 1.14.1489 or something |
| 03:53.43 | Ivnedar | 4th long is the first variable |
| 03:53.54 | Ivnedar | after that, the packed content starts |
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| 06:38.03 | Imhothar | hugh, no error report from the newest version... that's suspicious |
| 06:39.04 | Thorarin | Wait a day or two :) |
| 06:39.10 | Imhothar | I did |
| 06:39.41 | Thorarin | Did you update the version number this time? ;) |
| 06:40.22 | Imhothar | I'm quite sure |
| 06:41.35 | Imhothar | Hmm getting more and more requests to translate ImhoBags into Chinese and Taiwanese |
| 06:41.42 | Imhothar | Wish Curse had those in its localization |
| 06:42.18 | Thorarin | I had a request for Chinese as well.. but only once |
| 06:42.36 | Thorarin | I think I forgot to reply to it, come to think of it :S |
| 06:45.02 | Thorarin | Maybe the Chinese gold farmers need something to track their inventories over multiple accounts :) |
| 06:48.25 | Imhothar | sigh |
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| 09:35.56 | Wildtide | mornin' all |
| 09:54.07 | Dysturbed | OH HAI |
| 10:26.16 | Thorarin | Morning :) |
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| 15:46.41 | Wildtide | ZorbaBeta, what would be the performance hit from having lots of Size events attached, ignoring any processing carried out within the handlers themselves? |
| 15:47.38 | Wildtide | for example, if i had 1000 frames, and every frame had a Size event attached which did nothing, would the event dispatch overhead be noticeable? |
| 15:48.08 | Wildtide | (no, i'm not planning on doing this, but trying to optimise things, so need to understand how this stuff impacts the game) |
| 16:13.21 | ZorbaBeta | it's not great right now, it ends up removing some of the lazy-evaluation features of the frames. I've been thinking about semi-breaking the API and reducing the guarantee that those are called until "before the next frame", but haven't done so yet |
| 16:13.49 | ZorbaBeta | if you're not moving anything around, no issue - if you are, the biggest issue is that every setpoint() will end up regenerating a chunk of positional data |
| 16:35.50 | Wildtide | ah, ok |
| 16:36.21 | Wildtide | in that case, a different question... when can i reliably retrieve the calculated size of a frame? |
| 16:36.37 | Wildtide | is it on creation for everything except for Text? |
| 16:38.16 | Wildtide | and... while i'm bothering you already... do you know when i can reliably pick up the size of a text frame, is it on System.Update.End ? |
| 16:39.03 | Wildtide | i seem to remember not being able to measure a text frame without attaching a size handler, which makes sense, cos i assume you defer actually doing all the expense font-y stuff until you have to |
| 16:39.13 | Wildtide | *expensive |
| 16:43.52 | Thorarin | Still working on that text field? I thought you stopped because of lack of copy/paste? |
| 16:44.54 | Wildtide | no, i'm not doing that |
| 16:45.15 | Wildtide | it's to do with unit frame element hierarchies and scaling |
| 16:46.10 | Wildtide | pings ZorbaBeta, as he's leaving in 10 mins, and doesn't want to rely on the IvneMessageOTron :) |
| 16:46.57 | ZorbaBeta | you can retrieve the size at any time (it'll do the lazy evaluation if needed) |
| 16:47.03 | ZorbaBeta | same with text frames, I believe |
| 16:55.36 | Wildtide | oh, ok. that's handy |
| 16:55.58 | Wildtide | though i'm pretty sure text frames don't work... i think the height is way off |
| 16:56.02 | Wildtide | iirc |
| 16:56.28 | Wildtide | i'll do some playing around tonight |
| 17:10.58 | Wildtide | laters all |
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| 19:15.42 | Imhothar | I love it when people keep asking whether I can fix the tooltip issue over and over and over and over and over again |
| 19:15.51 | Imhothar | ZorbaBeta: can you fix the tooltip issue? |
| 19:26.00 | Thorarin | hehe |
| 19:42.22 | Thorarin | It's a rather weird one... aside from the annoying position, the frame height for the tooltip seems quite useless |
| 19:42.35 | Thorarin | I think it always returns 1600-something for me |
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| 19:43.15 | Imhothar | its the screen height |
| 19:43.44 | Thorarin | I think they're pretty much fixed width though, so assuming the tooltip is topleft, the best you could do is put the text on the right of it? |
| 19:43.46 | Imhothar | that's why attaching the tooltip extension at the bottom doesn't work and people keep thinking "put it at the bottom, stupid" |
| 19:44.22 | Imhothar | it might work, though comparison tooltips break everything |
| 19:45.09 | Thorarin | The Tooltip API never gives comparisons atm does it? |
| 19:45.38 | Imhothar | no, and the natively invoked comparison tooltips spam with lots of Event.Tooltip(nil, nil, nil) |
| 19:46.36 | Imhothar | wish we could add a frame to Command.Tooltip making it position itself at the corners just as in the native bags |
| 19:46.40 | Thorarin | I must say I prefer it on top or bottom, so if you want to keep that behavior for normal bags and slots, you'd have to discern between Tooltip API tooltips you create, and other tooltips |
| 19:47.30 | Thorarin | Somewhat messy, but I can't really think of anything else atm :/ |
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