| 00:33.56 | *** join/#riftuidev Noshei (~quassel@c-67-161-146-244.hsd1.co.comcast.net) |
| 01:07.06 | seebs | Haha! |
| 01:07.22 | seebs | http://www.polycount.com/forum/showthread.php?t=112686 <-- there we go, an unambiguous statement that the metal bikini chick is Crucia in human form. |
| 01:07.32 | seebs | .... buried under about thirty quintillion pixels of other art. |
| 01:11.40 | ZorbaTHut | I suppose this would be a bad time to point out that often art assets change their meaning between the art's completion and its actual use? ;) |
| 01:12.06 | ZorbaTHut | (note: do not take this as a claim that it *isn't* Crucia, just that game development is complicated :V) |
| 01:15.40 | seebs | heh |
| 01:15.59 | seebs | I'm taking the "DUN DUN DUNNNNNNNN" I got from one of the CMs when I asked about the similarity to Miela as pretty convincing evidence. |
| 01:17.34 | seebs | Meh. I have been sorta burned out just because of the Very Complete Non-Response on any issue pertaining to the continued abusive behavior by a single very obvious player. I mean, yes, I recognize that they don't generally say anything. But as long as the behavior keeps happening... |
| 01:20.51 | ZorbaTHut | yeah, I can see how that'd be frustrating :/ |
| 01:21.30 | seebs | I assume that there must be *some* reason for which someone is allowed to spend hours at a time telling people to go fuck themselves in public channels, and is still doing it after months, but I'm clueless as to what could be happening. |
| 01:21.49 | seebs | I am pretty sure I have talked to people who have been told to knock off disruptive behavior, so I think it *can* happen. |
| 01:28.10 | seebs | Woah, I'd missed that. Apparently 30ish people laid off from Trion, mostly at the office Rift is at? That sucks. |
| 01:30.02 | ZorbaTHut | Yep :/ bit of fallout from the EoN problems, really |
| 01:30.17 | ZorbaTHut | unfortunately this means we're probably not getting a new senior rendering engineer, which means the addon system may be getting half my attention for a while :P |
| 01:32.39 | seebs | Yeah. I... well, I obviously don't know that much about running a company or anything, but if I had a really successful product, and other stuff was struggling, my first idea wouldn't be "let's shrink the team that's making our money". |
| 01:33.15 | ZorbaTHut | Honestly, this is a situation where Trion already did something really weird. Usually in the MMO world you'd expect to see layoffs *far* sooner. It turns out it just takes a lot more staff to start an MMO than to maintain one. |
| 01:36.28 | seebs | Yeah. But I think that's part of what made Rift so successful -- having enough people around that they could do much more aggressive development than most companies. |
| 01:37.03 | seebs | So Rift was doing stuff between xpacs that other companies might not get done outside of an xpac. |
| 01:38.03 | ZorbaTHut | Yeah, it's tough to say. Unfortunately, good MMOs are a bit of an anomaly, and it's really tricky to figure out what parts are crucial and what aren't. |
| 01:38.15 | ZorbaTHut | But note we've still got a lot of people, and our tools are getting better all the time. :) |
| 01:38.34 | seebs | Yeah. |
| 01:38.36 | seebs | Well, I remain overall optimistic. |
| 01:39.02 | seebs | Been too busy to do much lately, but it'll totally happen. I had to do a bunch of computer maintenance for Sound Technical Reasons. |
| 01:39.09 | seebs | Mostly, "a friend's art machine died". |
| 01:40.52 | ZorbaTHut | good reasons, there |
| 01:41.48 | seebs | Long story short: I had recently upgraded my laptop. So I went and found a clearance laptop that was a smallish upgrade, got that, and gave my friend the hand-me-down. |
| 01:42.12 | seebs | Only this time, instead of the hand-me-down being "here's a machine that just left its 3-year-warranty", it's "here's a machine that's two and a half months into its three year warranty". |
| 01:48.17 | seebs | I am also spending too much time on random distractions that suddenly occur to me as interesting problems, most of which I end up not really pursuing very far. |
| 01:49.02 | seebs | I have a sort of loosely-structured notion for a shoot-em-up video game, but not the resources/skills to do a competent job of trying to make it go somewhere. |
| 01:49.28 | ZorbaTHut | if you wanted to pursue it - prototype it with placeholder art to see if it's fun |
| 01:50.34 | seebs | I don't *think* I know enough to do even that -- I don't really know how to make such a thing. Which may not be a disadvantage, though. |
| 01:51.17 | seebs | Basically, my idea was: A shoot-em-up in which your score is subject to decay. There are no "lives". Being hit results in you respawning. At any given point, your score is the sum of the points you have earned in the past thirty seconds. |
| 01:51.32 | seebs | So you still want to avoid respawning, because it means a second or two during which you are *not scoring points*. |
| 01:51.46 | seebs | Haven't figured out what to use for goals or targets, though. |
| 01:52.04 | seebs | Idea would be basically that all goals are of the form "have your score reach N points during a play session". |
| 01:52.32 | ZorbaTHut | I made something vaguely similarish long ago - http://www.mandible.net/2009/06/24/no-such-thing-as-too-many-guns/ - the idea behind this was that every time you got hit, you got a weapon upgrade |
| 01:52.37 | seebs | Or possibly totally orthogonal things, like "keep your score 0 for a full 30 seconds" (which is hard because if things blow themselves up ramming you, you get points). |
| 01:52.39 | ZorbaTHut | but you got points based on how crummy your weapon was |
| 01:53.13 | ZorbaTHut | I've always kinda liked the idea of games without a lose condition, but it turns out most people aren't motivated by points, which was something I tangled with for quite a while. |
| 01:53.35 | seebs | That's interesting, if only because my experiments with Goofball suggest that points in and of themselves are a fairly powerful motivator. |
| 01:53.42 | seebs | Although it may be more true of me than for most people. |
| 01:53.57 | seebs | Thinking about it... I don't tend to be very motivated by point totals, just by scoring points. |
| 01:54.16 | seebs | Which is to say, I suspect my motivation is not noticably different between my hypothetical Thirty Seconds game and a more traditional shooter. |
| 01:54.27 | seebs | I just ... I dunno. I like to be able to keep trying things. I don't like to have to start over. |
| 01:55.55 | seebs | I think what annoys me in the traditional model is that if you have to succeed for 30 minutes straight to win, I generally can't win -- I'm just plain not that consistent with *ANYTHING*. |
| 01:56.06 | seebs | Like, I can't add single-digit numbers with that kind of reliability. No, really. |
| 01:56.58 | seebs | So the thing is, what you lose if you screw up is Too Large. And I can handle a lot of RPGs because they have some amount of wiggle room, and you can recover from mistakes. If you have hit points, you only have to maintain a certain total level of performance, you don't have to never screw up. |
| 01:57.37 | seebs | In general, for me, "not winning yet" is a sufficient loss condition to motivate me to do better. Much of anything else just feels punitive. |
| 01:58.26 | ZorbaTHut | I think that's one of the benefits of the checkpoint system that a lot of modern singleplayer games use. You don't have to do the save/reload dance every two minutes, and you're given known points where you have to be awesome only long enough to reach the next point |
| 01:59.53 | seebs | Yeah. |
| 02:00.12 | seebs | Although Sonic the Hedgehog (the first Genesis one) had a glorious failure of that system. |
| 02:00.27 | seebs | You could hit a checkpoint with time on the clock such that the level was impossible to complete in the time remaining. |
| 02:00.30 | seebs | Game totally over. |
| 02:01.24 | seebs | I played that a ton with a friend. I was hopeless at the labyrinth level (underwater) and I think I may have completed it once EVER. He could just walk through it like it weren't no thing. |
| 02:01.32 | seebs | Then he'd reach Star Light zone and hand me the controller. |
| 02:02.12 | seebs | We finally did establish that there was a different ending for completing the game AND getting all the chaos emeralds, though. |
| 02:11.25 | seebs | Huh. |
| 02:11.30 | seebs | Now I have yet ANOTHER idea. |
| 02:11.55 | seebs | Not so much a game idea as a business model idea. Open Source MMO. The gimmick: The public source tree lags the live servers by 6-9 months. |
| 02:12.16 | seebs | Want to play what the subscribers were playing last year? Go right ahead. |
| 02:12.47 | seebs | The idea is that basically, the updates made available to the players would entice them to subscribe in order to get "one more year of developer effort". |
| 02:48.51 | Noshei | hey ZorbaTHut, did you see my comment about the world texture bug and multiple clients? |
| 02:49.22 | ZorbaTHut | yeah, just haven't had time to look into it yet |
| 02:49.48 | Noshei | yeah I'm 100% certain it happens every time I run 2 clients |
| 02:56.06 | ZorbaTHut | huh, interesting. what's your graphics card, and how many cores does your CPU have? |
| 02:56.37 | Noshei | intel i7 920 and nvidia GTX 480 x2 |
| 02:56.49 | ZorbaTHut | alright, thanks :) |
| 04:03.25 | seebs | Well, I never knew that. |
| 04:03.38 | seebs | Apparently the reason Rift is so horrible is that the devs always do whatever the players ask no matter how stupid it is. |
| 04:03.46 | seebs | I am glad I have in-game chat to educate me about the game. |
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| 12:54.13 | Wildtide | afternoon all |
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| 19:25.55 | Thorarin | Hmm, apparently KaruulAlert breaks on Rift 2.1 |
| 19:26.04 | Thorarin | And it's not compatibility mode... hmm :S |
| 19:27.36 | seebs | In case anyone watches MMO news: TSW is now B2P. |
| 19:28.33 | Imhothar | b2p? |
| 19:28.53 | Imhothar | boring to play? |
| 19:29.00 | seebs | Buy To Play. |
| 19:29.05 | Imhothar | ah |
| 19:29.09 | seebs | You have to spend money to get in (you have to buy the game). |
| 19:29.36 | seebs | I originally bought a lifetime sub to it largely because one of the Rift forum posters was pissing me off. |
| 19:29.43 | seebs | Actually, it's a pretty good game. |
| 19:30.06 | seebs | But mostly, I saw these people doing some actually cool stuff, and these jerks on the Rift forums trashing them at length, and I thought "you know, they deserve better than this." |
| 19:53.53 | Baanano | just been fined 601 € because the cat is in heat >_< |
| 19:54.17 | Torhal|work | seebs: Just don't use AddOns. Their environment is open to everything. |
| 19:54.30 | Torhal|work | You can actually intercept username/password from what I've been told. |
| 19:54.49 | Torhal|work | Baanano: o.O |
| 19:57.27 | Imhothar | don't leave your cat in the car in summer |
| 19:57.33 | Imhothar | wait, it's not summer |
| 19:57.40 | Baanano | a neighbour called the police because the cat was meowing too loud in the night |
| 19:57.43 | Imhothar | what did you do to your cat? |
| 19:58.04 | Baanano | they came, recorded it and it seems it exceeded baud level in residential areas |
| 19:58.53 | seebs | Torhal: Not username and password, I believe, but basically yeah, it's wide-open Flash. |
| 19:59.34 | Imhothar | why on earth does .NET 4 require 840MB disk space and 3.5 only 280 |
| 19:59.51 | Imhothar | that's insane |
| 19:59.54 | Baanano | the best thing it's her first heat and she's scheduled for sterilization next monday |
| 20:00.04 | seebs | Baanano: That is INSANE. But a good argument for getting them spayed. |
| 20:00.06 | seebs | :( |
| 20:00.23 | seebs | I am told you can temporarily quiet a female cat in heat with a q-tip, but have never tried. |
| 20:02.40 | Thorarin | ... |
| 20:11.19 | Baanano | what's a q-tip? |
| 20:12.15 | Cairenn | cotton tipped little stick |
| 20:12.46 | Cairenn | http://www.qtips.com/ |
| 20:13.01 | Imhothar | the thing people perforate their eardrums with |
| 20:13.07 | Cairenn | but shouldn't |
| 20:13.19 | Imhothar | shouldn't |
| 20:14.43 | Baanano | cleaning her ears would quiet her? :S |
| 20:15.11 | Cairenn | Not even going there ... |
| 20:15.14 | Imhothar | I think seebs should elaborate a bit |
| 20:15.48 | Imhothar | with the bees and the flowers and all that |
| 20:15.53 | seebs | Yes. Totally. |
| 20:16.03 | Baanano | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:22.12 | Baanano | we've always thrown them to the swimming pool, but it's december |
| 20:22.37 | Imhothar | the pool disappears in december? |
| 20:23.21 | Imhothar | the increased force of impact might lead to more drastic change in mental behavior |
| 20:23.32 | Imhothar | maybe even a beneficial change |
| 20:25.23 | Baanano | the water is dirty, full of leeches and probably too cold |
| 20:26.25 | Imhothar | oh |
| 20:26.55 | Imhothar | I was expecting either an empty pool or a thick ice layer |
| 20:30.48 | Baanano | yeah i've always wondered why my parents don't empty it before winter, it needs to be emptied on spring to be cleaned anyway |
| 21:25.46 | *** join/#riftuidev Toludin (62cf9e4f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.98.207.158.79) |
| 21:27.39 | Toludin | Anyone else logged in since 2.1? |
| 21:28.07 | seebs | I... don't think I have. |
| 21:28.14 | seebs | A housemate has and has gotten a shard first. |
| 21:28.37 | Toludin | Oh nice |
| 21:28.58 | Toludin | seems it broke KA |
| 21:40.05 | Thorarin | What? You haven't updated to 1.34 yet? |
| 21:40.15 | Thorarin | I uploaded it at least 5 minutes before you said that :( |
| 21:41.12 | Toludin | yknow what's weird...i see that it's updated 15 mins ago or something, but hte latest file still says 1.33.3 |
| 21:41.36 | Thorarin | It needs to be approved first :) |
| 21:43.22 | Toludin | Ah ha - just curious, what needed to be changed? |
| 21:43.42 | Toludin | when i realized precisely how screwed I was in my lock spec without KA, I started frantically searching :) |
| 21:43.56 | Thorarin | There hadn't been an update since 1.11, so KA still contained code to deal with rogue combo units |
| 21:44.05 | Thorarin | Seems Zorba removed it for 2.1 |
| 21:45.20 | Thorarin | The error is because the combo unit changed event no longer exists |
| 21:46.04 | Toludin | ah - yea WT has the same issue |
| 21:46.10 | Thorarin | It wasn't something that triggered compatibility mode, so it was not really expected given the patch notes |
| 21:47.46 | Thorarin | Ah well, hopefully it will be downloadable before usual US raid times |
| 21:48.06 | Thorarin | In EU the patch hasn't been applied yet |
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| 23:20.44 | odine | good evening, all! |
| 23:21.07 | odine | didnt notice anything in the patch notes, did any fixes or anything make it into 2.1 API wise? |
| 23:21.11 | Imhothar | happy midnight |
| 23:21.26 | odine | midnight for ya huh? <- NY |
| 23:21.51 | Imhothar | MUC |