| 00:48.33 | Baanano | ZorbaBeta, some time ago I reported in the forum I was losing my saved vars randomly but couldn't reproduce it |
| 00:49.50 | Baanano | I have a file that can reproduce it now, seems the error is "main function has more than 65536 constants" again |
| 00:53.26 | Baanano | here's a link to the file: http://www.filefactory.com/file/6bvrdqkqltm9/n/LibPGC_zip |
| 01:03.31 | *** join/#riftuidev Imhothar (~miranda@ppp-188-174-113-32.dynamic.mnet-online.de) |
| 02:25.21 | seebs | Woo! Reproducers rock. |
| 02:25.23 | seebs | Speaking of bugs. |
| 02:25.37 | seebs | I have concluded that the in-game mail autocomplete of names is nondeterministic. |
| 02:25.51 | seebs | Worse, it often does exactly the opposite of what I intend. |
| 02:26.04 | seebs | Say I am in a guild with three characters whose names all begin "Kat". |
| 02:26.45 | seebs | Typing K in the mail window may well pick one. It will not be the same one every time. It gets better! If it happens to have picked the one I did want, but I hit a, it will now change to SOMETHING ELSE, or possibly give up and conclude that it cannot complete that name. |
| 02:49.52 | seebs | Zorba! Whyyyyyy?!? Why cannot capes be dyed? |
| 02:50.20 | seebs | It's gonna be AGES before I find a cape that actually goes with my outfit so I can enjoy the lovely physics. |
| 03:13.06 | Noshei | i tell you what seebs, you figure out a good way to handle autocomplete for names and I'll add it to Easy Mail |
| 03:13.21 | Noshei | will save me the time of having to figure it out anyways |
| 03:13.49 | Imhothar | sort the list of names and do a prefix search? |
| 03:14.17 | seebs | Okay, rule 1: Unless the pool of names completed-from changes, it should be consistent. Rule 2: Typing a new letter should only change the guess if the new letter can't match the current guess. Rule 3: Possibly "consistent" should imply that names you've selected should be at the top of the pool, though. |
| 03:14.38 | seebs | Oh, and possibly have something (tab?) rotate through possible completions or show the list if it's short. |
| 03:16.26 | Noshei | I'm personally leaning toward a dropdown that includes all of the possible names, with it autocompleting the first name |
| 03:16.47 | Imhothar | it's not really that difficult, when you got a sorted list of strings it boils down to finding all entries that begin with your search string. using tab you simply start your search at the index+1 with with wrap-around behavior |
| 03:17.20 | Noshei | but it will have two pools of names to choose from, a static list that is chosen by the user, via my contacts module in EM and from a complete list of Guild+friends |
| 03:17.38 | Imhothar | merge the lists before searching |
| 03:18.04 | Noshei | no, they would be searched at the same time |
| 03:18.26 | Noshei | with the user defined list taking presidence |
| 03:18.28 | Imhothar | yeah, why so it simple when you can do it the complicated way ;) |
| 03:18.55 | Noshei | because simple is boring |
| 04:23.10 | ZorbaBeta | I'd actually break seebs's rule 1. Keep a use-frequency attached to each name, as well as a current-priority-value. When you start typing, it picks the name with the highest priority. Now here's the trick: you update the priority table *only* when one name's frequency exceeds another name's by a certain amount, just to get some hysteresis into the system. |
| 04:23.45 | Imhothar | unpredictable behavior ftw |
| 05:14.57 | Noshei | ZorbaBeta: is there a reason that RiftWindow doesn't include the close button? |
| 05:27.35 | ZorbaBeta | because not everyone wants a standard close button on their window, and it's unclear how to cleanly integrate it into what is already a rather awful API. Note that RiftButton can be set to "close" mode. |
| 05:29.35 | Noshei | yeah I just figured it would have been something that was integrated into the Rift Window |
| 05:30.35 | Noshei | I figured it would be an option, rather than something that was a static part of it though |
| 05:31.22 | seebs | The main nuisance is that we can't detect escape and close windows on that. |
| 05:31.37 | Noshei | ^ yeah that |
| 05:31.47 | seebs | I think the main thing is, it's bad for it to be Just Plain Random. |
| 05:31.57 | seebs | Some way to change what it'll do, good. Completely uncontrolled, not good. |
| 05:32.19 | seebs | huh, all my characters now have yellow heads on the character select screen, with flat black eyes. |
| 05:32.38 | seebs | oh, wait. irises are still there, it's just black backgrounds instead of white. |
| 05:32.46 | Noshei | lol |
| 05:32.59 | Noshei | ive seen plenty of graphic glitches on the character screen |
| 05:33.12 | ZorbaBeta | something seems to have gone wonky in the character screen in 2.0 |
| 05:33.27 | ZorbaBeta | not quite sure what's going on. we've had problems even on our own development machines, but nothing predictable or reproducible :/ |
| 05:33.53 | Noshei | yeah there had been issues with it through Alpha after they added the new graphics to it |
| 05:37.27 | ZorbaBeta | which is weird because there's nothing special about how that works, it's literally just a game level that we load like any other game level |
| 05:37.43 | ZorbaBeta | (on a dev client you can load it and walk around in it, which is pretty funny) |
| 05:38.17 | Noshei | I want a dev client |
| 07:34.49 | starlon | YOu wanna know what I dislike about MMOs? I've spent 4 weeks worth of rolls, 4 rolls each week, and I still haven't won my freaking wneapon. :( |
| 07:35.30 | ZorbaBeta | it's one of those really tough psychological things. it turns out that the random lottery method of giving out equipment, while apparently frustrating, actually results in people happier with their play |
| 07:35.31 | starlon | There are two weapons -- a 1hand and 2hand. I haven't won either, although I prefer the 2hand. |
| 07:35.59 | starlon | heh |
| 07:36.11 | ZorbaBeta | there have been studies which show that, given a choice between several options, people will choose one and then almost inevitably regret their decision. whereas, given no choice and an item randomly, people will be, on average, happier with it |
| 07:36.17 | ZorbaBeta | the human brain is really annoying sometimes :V |
| 07:36.27 | starlon | Yeah I got my legendary hammer on my second Rag solo kill. lol |
| 07:36.28 | ZorbaBeta | (and then of course there's the whole skinner-box thing) |
| 07:36.53 | starlon | nice |
| 07:37.16 | ZorbaBeta | it's just nasty in general. fun is elusive and counterintuitive. |
| 07:37.26 | starlon | heh |
| 08:06.07 | seebs | I mostly don't do the stuff with competitive loot rolls. I liked CoH's solution to that. |
| 08:07.56 | seebs | Is it intentional that only some of tempest bay counts as resting? e.g., the crafting place doesn't. |
| 08:46.25 | ZorbaBeta | I honestly don't know |
| 09:27.45 | *** join/#riftuidev Imhothar (~miranda@ppp-88-217-46-142.dynamic.mnet-online.de) |
| 09:28.58 | Imhothar | Oh cool, my last error report included 101% of errors |
| 09:29.17 | Thorarin | hehe |
| 09:29.25 | Thorarin | Rounding I guess :) |
| 09:29.25 | Imhothar | Is the error filtering disabled? |
| 09:30.13 | Imhothar | ZorbaTHut: I got errors with 96%, 3%, 1% and 1% thogh I thought the smaller ones get filtered out |
| 09:30.21 | Thorarin | Dunno, haven't received an error report in a few days |
| 09:30.24 | Imhothar | oh thats ZorbaBeta |
| 09:33.52 | *** join/#riftuidev lua_bot (~lua_bot@li37-84.members.linode.com) |
| 09:38.47 | starlon | seebs: How does CoH handle it? |
| 09:39.27 | seebs | When you kill stuff that could potentially yield loot for you, you may or may not get loot. There is no "the loot the creature has, which must be allocated". |
| 09:39.43 | starlon | right |
| 09:39.49 | starlon | Well Blizzard did the LFR like this. |
| 09:39.52 | seebs | So some mobs maybe no one gets anything, others maybe a bunch of people get stuff. Whatever. Everyone's getting loot over the course of a while of play. |
| 09:40.05 | ZorbaBeta | imhothar, the smaller ones do get filtered out. You have a lot of errors being generated. :V |
| 09:40.17 | starlon | You also have the 3 charms a week you can spend on bonus rolls. |
| 09:41.14 | starlon | Sadly I've rolled a total of 16 times on my weapon of choice. :( |
| 09:41.21 | starlon | Still no weapon. |
| 09:41.36 | starlon | Oh I guess I said that a while ago. |
| 09:41.39 | starlon | lol |
| 09:42.28 | seebs | Hmm. I see an issue: So far as I can tell, it's REALLY hard to get enough cloth to use up leather, now that leather patterns all need cloth and vice versa. |
| 09:43.56 | seebs | Ohhh, not all of them do, just many. |
| 09:44.04 | ZorbaBeta | I know everyone cares about this a lot, so: http://imgur.com/a/eyl8z updated my album of pictures of my cat |
| 09:44.25 | seebs | That is not a cat. That is a kitten. |
| 09:44.46 | ZorbaBeta | It started out as a kitten, but something changed along the way. |
| 09:44.52 | seebs | And either your last name is Saotome, or there are two people in those pictures. |
| 09:44.55 | ZorbaBeta | I'm still not quite sure what. I'm thinking of filing a bug report. |
| 09:45.11 | ZorbaBeta | interestingly, my last name isn't Saotome, there *are* two people in those pictures, and neither of them are named Saotome. |
| 09:45.19 | seebs | I had a kitten that was roughly that color. It turned into a black-and-white tuxedo cat. |
| 09:45.21 | ZorbaBeta | In fact I don't even know anyone who is named Saotome. |
| 09:45.30 | seebs | (It is a reference to an anime.) |
| 09:45.38 | ZorbaBeta | Oh, duh :D I knew it sounded familiar |
| 09:46.00 | seebs | There were a ton of shard firsts yesterday by a guild named <Babytown>. |
| 09:46.08 | ZorbaBeta | this cat is old enough that I suspect it won't be color-changing - it's moving up on a year old - but its stripes definitely got more intense in the first few months |
| 09:46.24 | seebs | At one point, I posted in Level 50-59 chat "Won't you take me to", and then about 2 seconds later, "Babytown." |
| 09:46.30 | seebs | And observed that now everyone over thirty hated me. |
| 09:46.36 | ZorbaBeta | you can see in the first picture that it's basically gray, and in later pictures, it's got a nice striped raccoon tail |
| 09:46.43 | ZorbaBeta | haha, awesome |
| 09:47.18 | Baanano | why cats love boxes? |
| 09:47.35 | seebs | Replaced bard with tactitian in my wandering-around build, it works decently. I miss the 15% runspeed, though. |
| 09:48.26 | ZorbaBeta | baanano, I have no idea, but I placed the box there specifically to lure the cat off my keyboard |
| 09:48.29 | seebs | So, I was thinking back to auction scans in WoW, and how amazingly cool it was when they went from taking 20 minutes to two or three minutes. |
| 09:48.35 | ZorbaBeta | works quite well |
| 09:49.23 | seebs | Heh. |
| 09:49.26 | seebs | I did that to my cat. |
| 09:49.37 | seebs | I got a flat thing that is actually, secretly, intended as a thing for cats to sleep on. |
| 09:49.42 | seebs | It is black. She is calico. |
| 09:49.48 | seebs | I then shooed her off it a few times. |
| 09:49.54 | seebs | They are now inseparable. |
| 09:50.01 | ZorbaBeta | hah. |
| 09:50.21 | ZorbaBeta | when we got our air conditioner, it came with a few about-20-inches-on-a-side squares of foam for padding |
| 09:50.45 | ZorbaBeta | those ended up on the floor for a few days while we made sure the air conditioner worked. by the time we were ready to throw away the packaging, they were officially the Cat Pads. |
| 09:51.01 | ZorbaBeta | so now we've got cat-sized foam pads sitting around upstairs. ah, cats. |
| 09:52.04 | seebs | I posted a 15-minute video of my cat on youtube. |
| 09:52.17 | seebs | In the video, she sleeps. There is a little bit of stretching once or twice. |
| 09:53.26 | ZorbaBeta | for a while I wanted to rig up a camera in the upstairs hallway and post a timelapse video of the cat following the square of sunlight |
| 09:57.26 | Baanano | zorba, did you saw the saved vars bug? |
| 09:58.51 | ZorbaBeta | oop, just saw it. I'll take a look at it at work |
| 10:00.24 | seebs | Oh, and if you're Rendering Guy, it's probably going to affect you that ground clutter seems to be constantly loading and unloading for some players. |
| 10:01.18 | ZorbaBeta | fun |
| 10:01.21 | Baanano | thanks |
| 10:01.43 | Baanano | seebs do you mean the grass appearing and disappearing? |
| 10:01.47 | ZorbaBeta | baanano, I think you may be the only person who regularly runs into these issues, so thanks for the reports, because if you weren't making 'em they'd probably never get fixed :V |
| 10:02.01 | seebs | Yeah. |
| 10:03.50 | seebs | Up next on my list: Questing to find a cape that matches my outfit so I can have those awesome cloak graphics. |
| 10:03.58 | seebs | I was very sad to find out they cannot be dyed. |
| 10:04.17 | ZorbaBeta | I found that capes clipped through my shoulder armour, and decided I liked my shoulders better. So, ironically, the guy who did the cape code is running around without a cape. |
| 10:05.06 | seebs | Wow, I am really looking forward to 51. A lot of very cool gear and potions require 51. |
| 10:05.07 | ZorbaBeta | I'm actually curious why capes can't be dyed - to the best of my knowledge there shouldn't be a technical reason for it. |
| 10:05.18 | seebs | Pretty sure there's also not for weapons or shields. |
| 10:05.31 | seebs | Which I say because the recoloring bug demonstrates that they pretty much all have the same two color slots. |
| 10:06.04 | seebs | So we know they *can* be recolored. And that they do so with a primary and secondary color. |
| 10:06.18 | ZorbaBeta | yeah, our artists are pretty good at making sure everything is theoretically colorable |
| 10:08.26 | seebs | I am really, really, hoping that someday we can dye shields, capes, and weapons. ... and of course weapon wardrobe. Ideally using my Matching Gear model so it isn't so much work. |
| 10:09.10 | seebs | My idea was: Create one wardrobe slot each for two-hander, main hand weapon, off hand weapon, off hand totem, and off hand shield. Oh, and ranged. |
| 10:09.36 | seebs | Now instead of trying to fudge animations if the item mismatches what you have equipped, you just always show the thing corresponding to what's equipped. |
| 10:10.01 | seebs | Christmas is saved! |
| 10:10.12 | seebs | I should go sleep. |
| 10:10.27 | seebs | I am trying to decide whether it is worth the effort to drive out to target/k-mart tomorrow and see whether they have wii u's left. |
| 10:10.37 | seebs | My guess is they won't. |
| 11:01.42 | ZorbaBeta | haha. went to play a video. opened the video player, dragged and dropped the movie onto the player, and the player instantly crashed |
| 11:01.53 | ZorbaBeta | then I realized I'd typed in the wrong filename and opened a *text editor* instead of a video player |
| 11:02.01 | ZorbaBeta | am not entirely surprised that my text editor objected to a 1.7gb file. |
| 11:20.33 | Thorarin | :D |
| 11:20.47 | Thorarin | My text editor normally warns before doing that :) |
| 11:26.08 | *** join/#riftuidev Natch (~Natch@c-eccde155.25-4-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) |
| 11:35.45 | starlon | lol |
| 13:31.11 | *** join/#riftuidev g0urra (~g0urra@unaffiliated/gourra) |
| 17:00.31 | *** join/#riftuidev Noshei (~quassel@c-67-161-146-244.hsd1.co.comcast.net) |
| 18:04.49 | seebs | Well, that was unexpected. |
| 18:04.54 | seebs | kmart did indeed have a wii u. |
| 18:05.33 | Noshei | thats cause no one ever goes to krapmart |
| 18:14.15 | *** join/#riftuidev Torhal (~torhal@c-71-207-224-241.hsd1.al.comcast.net) |
| 18:15.34 | seebs | Ours suffers extra -- it's a little out of town, and since they built it, a large Target got built *closer* to town. |
| 18:15.55 | seebs | But I often go there first because they are more likely to have what I want. Target has gentrified right on past me. |
| 18:58.09 | Baanano | i hate writing documentation >_< |
| 19:02.54 | ZorbaBeta | baanano, tell me about it |
| 19:04.23 | Baanano | at least we read yours, it has a purpose :P |
| 19:07.13 | Baanano | at work, blind testers write it, we only do the proofreading (or whatever the word is) |
| 19:07.39 | Baanano | (with blind i mean they don't know what the application is supposed to do, not that they're actually blind) |
| 19:09.40 | *** join/#riftuidev Imhothar (~miranda@ppp-188-174-74-9.dynamic.mnet-online.de) |
| 19:19.20 | Imhothar | Why do I have to hit the Login button on forums several times a day when all my forums.riftgame.com cookies expire summer 2013 |
| 19:19.58 | Noshei | the cookie just remembers your login info, not if you are logged in |
| 19:20.10 | Imhothar | it's still annoying |
| 19:20.21 | Noshei | it seems there is a time out period where it will log you out if you are in active |
| 19:20.31 | Imhothar | of course there is |
| 19:20.36 | Imhothar | it's still annoying |
| 19:23.29 | Noshei | I wish they would fix this stupid bug where random objects disappear on your screen |
| 19:24.05 | Noshei | is very annoying running around and watching a huge rock flash in and out |
| 19:38.32 | ZorbaBeta | if you can come up with repro steps, it'd be much appreciated. we haven't been able to :/ |
| 19:39.28 | ZorbaBeta | seems to happen on live servers but not local servers, and we haven't gotten it consistent enough on live servers to start narrowing down why. |
| 19:42.38 | Noshei | yeah it certainly is a strange bug |
| 20:34.01 | seebs | Oooh. |
| 20:34.06 | seebs | You guys want reproducers? |
| 20:34.13 | seebs | Because my ENTIRE DAY yesterday was reproducers. |
| 20:34.24 | seebs | What I found the most consistent was the cyclopse caves in far-south Droughtlands. |
| 20:34.31 | seebs | The entire cave would consistently disappear while I was fighting. |
| 20:35.17 | seebs | And yeah, I had *way* higher density of "objects disappear even though they are still blocking movement" yesterday than I usually do. |
| 20:35.41 | seebs | Heh. So, someone in the forums has a complaint about SL. |
| 20:35.45 | seebs | It takes too long to kill stuff. |
| 20:36.08 | seebs | He's in a tank spec, and he's not taking any noticeable damage, so his self-heals are keeping him fully healed, but it takes a long time to kill stuff. |
| 20:36.51 | seebs | I had that problem, and after the first thing I killed, I switched to Stalker Phase, and then life was good. It is a shame that the UI does not flash HEY YOU ARE IN A TANK SPEC IT WILL TAKE A WHILE TO KILL THINGS on screen for the benefit of less-expert players. |
| 20:37.21 | ZorbaBeta | yeah, I think a lot of people don't realize that you want a damage-focused spec but still with some healing/mitigation/pet-tanking |
| 20:37.30 | ZorbaBeta | lots of damage and a little downtime reduction |
| 20:37.48 | seebs | Well, thing is, I actually DO want a sort of tanky spec. Because I tend to watch TV while levelling. |
| 20:37.58 | seebs | But I don't build for survival then complain that things die slowly. |
| 20:38.17 | Imhothar | you don't? but complaining is so much fun |
| 20:38.53 | seebs | I know! I love to complain. |
| 20:39.14 | seebs | In the "servers crashed" thread, I complained that I had been running across Meridian, and I was probably going to be at least 200m back from where I started. |
| 20:39.27 | seebs | And that Trion should provide compensation in the form of a one-time teleport to about 200m away. |
| 20:39.31 | Imhothar | that's the spirit |
| 20:41.03 | seebs | Anyway, I have to do some Productive Tasks for a while, but I bet I can get the object disappearing thing to happen more. |
| 20:41.15 | seebs | Zorba, anything specific I can do to make a reproducer more useful/informative? |
| 20:41.57 | ZorbaBeta | seebs, hmm. make sure it persists through client reboot, or if possible, figure out what causes it. /loc will give me coordinates, or you can just submit a bug (if you do so, tell me about it on irc otherwise I'll never go looking for it :V) |
| 20:42.12 | ZorbaBeta | note that this is probably a pretty tall order, it's unpredictable enough that I suspect it's my problem to deal with |
| 20:42.21 | ZorbaBeta | but, hey, never underestimate the power of crowdsourcing |
| 20:42.32 | seebs | Okay, let's see. |
| 20:42.42 | seebs | It definitely survived a client restart. I think even a computer restart. |
| 20:43.14 | seebs | My vague observations: If I find a position in which it's happening, it stays happening there. I am not 100% sure, but I think "position" means "camera location and angle". |
| 20:43.50 | seebs | So when I was in the cyclops cave, if I turned the camera a little, suddenly I could see the cave again. If I didn't do anything which caused camera motion, it mostly stayed in whichever state. |
| 20:43.55 | Imhothar | it's certainly realted to culling |
| 20:43.58 | seebs | Some trees and rocks will flicker. |
| 20:44.17 | seebs | The obvious thing was, if my camera *wanted* to be outside the cave, but was clipped inside the cave, the cave would disappear. |
| 20:44.44 | ZorbaBeta | oh, also, graphics detail settings would be helpful :) |
| 20:45.01 | ZorbaBeta | and yeah, if you can (I know it's a long walk) get back there and reproduce it again, I'd be very interested in the coordinates |
| 20:45.33 | Imhothar | resolution and camera zoom might be relevant as well |
| 20:45.57 | ZorbaBeta | it's unlikely, but possible, yeah |
| 20:46.10 | ZorbaBeta | still, if it's flickery, I ought to be able to just get "close" and go from there |
| 20:46.12 | seebs | Graphics settings: Everything maxed except both ground clutters are zero. 2560x1600, GeForce 670 with the October 15th or so WHQL drivers. |
| 20:46.41 | seebs | Also had it happen lots of other places. Thing that makes the cave area good is that there's a HUGE amount of terrain which is "objects" and thus subject to it. |
| 20:47.03 | seebs | The walls of the ruins, the large rocks, all that stuff will do it for me pretty consistently. |
| 20:47.40 | ZorbaBeta | *nod* definitely helpful |
| 20:49.20 | seebs | I had an issue with this in beta where I was under a tree in Silverwood, and something hilarious and strange was happening with the textures. |
| 20:49.41 | seebs | Such that the textures for making the tree look shadowed with light coming through it were moving independently of the leaves they were supposed to be on. |
| 20:51.15 | seebs | Not sure it's same thing, but it FELT similar. Also I suspect a relationship with the tendency for shadows to flicker in and out of existence, as though the thing casting them were flickering in and out of existence. |
| 20:51.28 | seebs | Because when the object and its shadow are both in view, they do seem to flicker together. |
| 21:06.06 | ZorbaBeta | there's actually a few bugs fixed along those lines lately - it used to be that projected textures would cause a one-pixel halo around characters |
| 21:06.07 | ZorbaBeta | fixed now |
| 21:06.15 | ZorbaBeta | (took me a week to track that one down) |
| 21:09.08 | seebs | Well, if time allows I will try to get more details. Hmm. |
| 21:09.34 | seebs | Trying to think how to give camera positioning info, and not coming up with much. But! Occurs to me I have more than one machine so I could see whether I can reproduce things across them. |
| 21:09.40 | ZorbaBeta | which cyclops cave was that, btw? the one in droughtlands, or a different one? |
| 21:09.50 | ZorbaBeta | in theory, if you zoom in all the way, you'll get the first-person view |
| 21:10.07 | ZorbaBeta | and that, plus the full /loc output, plus info on your race/gender, is enough to get very close to the right camera position |
| 21:10.14 | ZorbaBeta | but I doubt it'll be that specific |
| 21:10.41 | seebs | The droughtlands one... I think it was the one with the caster boss, not the melee boss. |
| 21:11.34 | ZorbaBeta | hmm, that gives me enough to at least take a shot at it |
| 21:12.18 | seebs | At least when I was there (kelari female, if it matters), basically 80% or more of camera locations showed me a giant pink empty space. |
| 21:19.59 | Noshei | crafting lag is horrible |
| 21:20.18 | Noshei | expecially when you skill up, see a 2+ second lag when I skill up |
| 23:55.54 | Imhothar | Deadlight is a very interesting piece of art |
| 23:56.04 | Imhothar | kinda like the old 80s Prince of Persia mixed with Zombies |