| 00:03.40 | Wildtide | nice :) |
| 00:04.33 | Wildtide | hmm... just been trying to find out how you would crop an image in Flash using AS3, and it looks like masks are how people do it. it could be that what we have now is actually the only way to do it |
| 00:09.51 | Wildtide | ewww, i think i've found the ScaleForm mechanism that Zorba must be using to handle textures (CLIK UILoader component), and the available functionality is... somewhat limited |
| 00:14.38 | Wildtide | right, i've depressed myself enough reading ScaleForm API docs (why on earth is it so popular? it's nasty). off to bed. nn :) |
| 01:06.37 | *** join/#riftuidev Imhothar (miranda@ppp-188-174-84-153.dynamic.mnet-online.de) |
| 01:11.28 | *** join/#riftuidev seebs (~seebs@home.seebs.net) |
| 01:11.29 | *** mode/#riftuidev [+o seebs] by ChanServ |
| 03:42.54 | ZorbaTHut | noshei, one minute should be totally fine |
| 03:43.10 | Noshei | ok cool |
| 03:56.19 | Noshei | ZorbaTHut: would there be a point you would say would be about as low as you would want me to let users go? |
| 03:56.59 | ZorbaTHut | one minute seems like a reasonable cutoff :V |
| 03:57.57 | Noshei | ok |
| 08:20.51 | *** join/#riftuidev Wildtide (0fe3b947@gateway/web/freenode/ip.15.227.185.71) |
| 13:22.49 | *** join/#riftuidev Imhothar (miranda@ppp-188-174-7-148.dynamic.mnet-online.de) |
| 13:25.25 | *** join/#riftuidev dolby (~dolby-wow@MMOI/Administrator/pdpc.silver.dolby) |
| 13:25.25 | *** mode/#riftuidev [+o dolby] by ChanServ |
| 13:45.51 | Wildtide | afternoon folks |
| 13:50.50 | Imhothar | heyho |
| 14:00.48 | Imhothar | how's the API battle going |
| 14:02.51 | *** join/#riftuidev Torhal (~torhal@c-71-207-224-241.hsd1.al.comcast.net) |
| 14:02.58 | *** mode/#riftuidev [+v Torhal] by ChanServ |
| 14:34.16 | Wildtide | i gave up with the API. I came to the conclusion ScaleForm gets right in the way of doing anything clever, and you're basically stuck with displaying flash elements on the screen |
| 14:34.42 | Imhothar | There must be a reason for its popularity |
| 14:37.21 | Wildtide | the only constructive plan i could come up with, was travelling over to the US, finding the person at Trion who decided it was a good idea, and slapping them repeatedly around the face while shouting "why? why? why?" |
| 14:38.12 | Imhothar | with Zorba standing besides you shooting him with Nerfgun barrages? |
| 14:39.09 | Imhothar | interestingly StarCraft 2 is using Scaleform, too |
| 14:39.19 | Imhothar | I would have expected them to reuse the WoW interface framework |
| 14:41.10 | Wildtide | i think it all comes down to the content creation pipeline. if a designer can use Flash Professional and their output is something that can be inserted straight into the game engine, that's a whole lot of developer effort you don't need |
| 14:41.30 | Imhothar | aye |
| 14:41.46 | Imhothar | Though I think they should have some content creation tools for the WoW UI |
| 14:42.36 | Wildtide | maybe the wow engine is so old it wasn't re-usable |
| 14:42.51 | Imhothar | possible |
| 14:45.34 | Wildtide | it would be interesting to know the split at Trion between content creators, and developers. i wouldn't be surprised if the dev team is tiny |
| 14:46.27 | Wildtide | given that ZorbaTHut said he is now the renderer team, you get the impression it's not a vast horde of developers |
| 15:25.11 | *** join/#riftuidev g0urra (~g0urra@unaffiliated/gourra) |
| 16:17.07 | ZorbaTHut | wildtide, actually, for all that I loathe scaleform, it *was* the right choice (a choice made before I arrived, but) |
| 16:17.37 | ZorbaTHut | from what I understand, we were in a situation where we needed to release a working game, and for all of Scaleform's flaws, it does quite a good job of turning artist time into moderately pretty UI elements without a whole lot of coder time. |
| 16:18.23 | ZorbaTHut | that said, those fancy features you want *will* show up eventually, it just comes down to them bubbling up to the top of the priority list. |
| 16:18.44 | Imhothar | for anything to bubble up it would need more Zorbas |
| 16:18.53 | ZorbaTHut | mostly it needs a real rendering engineer |
| 16:19.24 | Imhothar | or people who do the stuff which distracts you from doing good stuff |
| 16:19.46 | Imhothar | and then a few more Zorbas |
| 16:19.54 | ZorbaTHut | in fairness, those things which distract me are pretty dang awesome. |
| 16:20.09 | Wildtide | ZorbaTHut, nah, i know it's the right thing to do in a business sense, but where's the developer fun in that? :) |
| 16:20.27 | Imhothar | in fairness, that doesn't convince me |
| 16:22.02 | Imhothar | unless you tell us what exactly it is in the renderer you are doing ;) |
| 16:22.30 | Wildtide | he's implementing my "Matrix" cape ofc |
| 16:22.31 | ZorbaTHut | giving the artists the ability to drastically improve the visual effects attached to animations. seriously, they're doing some awesome stuff. |
| 16:22.59 | Imhothar | character animations? |
| 16:23.15 | ZorbaTHut | any animations, really. |
| 16:24.23 | Imhothar | dare you if we won't notice the visual awesomeness immediately once its live |
| 16:25.26 | ZorbaTHut | it's entirely possible you won't, it's going in late enough that it's only going to be used on a few major setpieces. but one of them is Volan, so, keep an eye out for Volan being totally fantastic. |
| 16:25.54 | Imhothar | who or what is a Volan |
| 16:25.56 | ZorbaTHut | and knowing our artists, it'll start showing up a lot more frequently in upcoming content. |
| 16:26.06 | ZorbaTHut | http://img1.mmo.mmo4arab.com/rift/images/update_storm_legion/120605e3/volan02.jpg |
| 16:26.53 | ZorbaTHut | there's some videos of him online also |
| 16:27.24 | ZorbaTHut | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xdMfd6-1utI |
| 16:27.25 | Wildtide | is Volan the coolest thing in SL so far? he's showing up in every promotional vid |
| 16:27.25 | Wildtide | though tbf, he is really really cool |
| 16:27.28 | Imhothar | ok, and in what way are you improving the animations? |
| 16:27.40 | ZorbaTHut | he's big and flashy, and he does some things that are quite technically impressive |
| 16:27.47 | ZorbaTHut | imhothar, nda ;) |
| 16:27.56 | Imhothar | meh |
| 16:28.01 | Imhothar | where do I sign? |
| 16:28.14 | ZorbaTHut | get hired at trion and I'll tell you |
| 16:28.53 | Imhothar | well unless you are inventing something the technique is certainly public domain |
| 16:29.11 | Imhothar | hmm whatever, my maths kills are failing right now.. need to focus |
| 16:29.37 | Wildtide | i'm trying to work out what's currently missing from animations :) |
| 16:29.39 | ZorbaTHut | sure, but the fact that we're doing it isn't. It's nothing insanely innovative, it's just adding new features to the game engine so the animators and artists can be happy. |
| 16:30.43 | Imhothar | ok, but once it's live I want you tro show me a screenshot and yell "that was me" |
| 16:31.13 | Wildtide | you've got skeletal animation/skinning, mechanical animation (pistons on spiders etc), things can glow, there are particle effects all over the place... you've got cloth simulation in place... |
| 16:31.19 | Imhothar | and then we can all judge whether it was worth delaying all the UI awesomeness you are doing |
| 16:31.39 | Imhothar | cloth simulation? where? |
| 16:32.00 | Wildtide | there was a shot of ZorbaCapes in one of the promo vids |
| 16:32.11 | Imhothar | àha |
| 16:32.42 | ZorbaTHut | I will admit to being amused at the idea that something shown in a promo video means it works :V |
| 16:32.50 | Wildtide | hehe |
| 16:33.10 | Imhothar | hmm funny, I have the rightmost button on my action bar assigned to ` and whenever I switch windows I start writing á 't 'b 's etc |
| 16:33.29 | Imhothar | without actually hitting the key ingame |
| 16:33.41 | Wildtide | you already told us they were proving tricky so i assumed they weren't actually ready... that and the fact that not all the toons in the promo were wearing them was a bit of a giveaway :) |
| 16:34.00 | Wildtide | water, shadows, smoke, fire... all in place... |
| 16:34.12 | Wildtide | reflections... i don't remember seeing reflections anywhere |
| 16:34.19 | Imhothar | reflections are a bitch |
| 16:34.34 | Wildtide | yep, incredibly expensive to render |
| 16:35.00 | Wildtide | but they're not really an 'animation' thing... i reckon it's the cloth |
| 16:35.29 | Imhothar | but that's a global simulation so it's relatively independent of the actual animations |
| 16:35.43 | Imhothar | well not really global |
| 16:35.59 | Imhothar | but still a simlation, so it's not directly animated |
| 16:36.03 | Wildtide | that depends on whether the collision model is sufficient for draping cloth over, and i'm pretty sure it's not |
| 16:36.34 | Wildtide | and you need attachment points etc, which would need to be set by content creators |
| 16:36.48 | Imhothar | once |
| 16:36.52 | Imhothar | hmm |
| 16:36.54 | Imhothar | we will see |
| 16:37.38 | ZorbaTHut | I'll tell you once it's out, but to be honest, depending on how well you know content pipelines, you'll either be totally unimpressed or totally excited :V It's a very backend thing. |
| 16:40.46 | Wildtide | aww, now we're all prepared to be disappointed |
| 16:41.05 | Imhothar | totally |
| 16:41.44 | Imhothar | he's lowering our expectations so we are even more impressed by the result |
| 16:42.01 | ZorbaTHut | yeah, I just don't want one of those "ZOMG EVERY CHARACTER IS GOING TO LOOK A MILLION TIMES BETTER" things. That won't be the case, but it *will* be noticable . . . if you know what you're looking for. As always, game development is a host of small things that nobody consciously notices. |
| 16:42.48 | Wildtide | i am massively intrigued now |
| 16:42.59 | ZorbaTHut | :V ask me in two months :) |
| 16:43.04 | Wildtide | hehe |
| 16:43.51 | Imhothar | now I know what to post on forums |
| 16:43.53 | Imhothar | ZOMG EVERY CHARACTER IS GOING TO LOOK A MILLION TIMES BETTER |
| 16:44.46 | Wildtide | realistic hair simulation |
| 16:45.35 | Imhothar | dual quaternions |
| 16:45.42 | Imhothar | well no that's actually a frontend thing |
| 16:46.06 | Imhothar | hmm |
| 16:47.10 | Wildtide | i give up. we've never yet managed to squeeze any info out of Zorba |
| 16:51.49 | Imhothar | I don't think it's hair. can't see any on Volan |
| 16:52.39 | Wildtide | ah, good point |
| 16:52.44 | Imhothar | but all the shiny spots could be soon-to-be particle emitters |
| 16:53.17 | Wildtide | would that be new though? there must be mobs that emit particles now |
| 16:53.18 | Imhothar | collision aware particles |
| 16:53.23 | Wildtide | though i can't think of any |
| 16:53.24 | Imhothar | I don't know |
| 16:53.40 | Imhothar | when I have timt to look at mobs they don't emit anything anymore |
| 16:53.49 | Wildtide | lol |
| 16:54.04 | Wildtide | you could be on to something. Volan could have showers of sparks coming off him |
| 16:54.23 | Imhothar | and/or dripping magma |
| 16:54.32 | Imhothar | fluid simulation? |
| 16:54.33 | Wildtide | yeah |
| 16:54.56 | Wildtide | oh well, we'll find out in 2 months :) |
| 16:55.00 | Wildtide | time for me to head home |
| 16:55.03 | Wildtide | cyas |
| 16:55.05 | Imhothar | bye |
| 17:04.46 | Imhothar | hmm would it be possible to add GetParent() to RiftWindowContent and RiftWindowBorder and return the corresponding RiftWindow? |
| 17:08.16 | Imhothar | is it a bug or feature mouse events don't work on RiftWindow but only on *Content and *Border? |
| 17:13.37 | *** join/#riftuidev NuSuey (u3556@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xekuahcxraxmplbz) |
| 17:26.51 | Imhothar | ZorbaTHut is there any event after a /reloadui that could indicate the player inventory is available? If I run Inspect.Item.List(Utility.Item.Slot.Inventory()) when the player becomes fully available I only receive the 5 bags |
| 19:03.04 | *** join/#riftuidev Torhal|work (~torhal_wo@76.164.170.2) |
| 19:03.05 | *** mode/#riftuidev [+v Torhal|work] by ChanServ |
| 19:10.29 | *** join/#riftuidev Toludin (~Adium@50.76.63.22) |
| 19:14.33 | *** join/#riftuidev Wildtide (~quassel@host86-174-70-33.range86-174.btcentralplus.com) |
| 19:58.34 | *** join/#riftuidev seebs (~seebs@gw.northfieldhospital.org) |
| 19:58.34 | *** mode/#riftuidev [+o seebs] by ChanServ |
| 20:46.03 | Imhothar | playing with animation curves |
| 20:46.05 | Imhothar | math ftw |
| 20:52.43 | *** join/#riftuidev seebs (~seebs@home.seebs.net) |
| 20:52.43 | *** mode/#riftuidev [+o seebs] by ChanServ |
| 21:57.48 | *** join/#riftuidev Natch_d (~Natch@c-1dcce155.25-4-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) |
| 23:32.25 | *** join/#riftuidev Noshei (~quassel@c-67-161-146-244.hsd1.co.comcast.net) |
| 23:37.16 | *** join/#riftuidev seebs (~seebs@home.seebs.net) |
| 23:37.16 | *** mode/#riftuidev [+o seebs] by ChanServ |
