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| 08:34.57 | Noshei | hey there Wildtide |
| 08:35.20 | Wildtide | ello |
| 08:35.57 | Noshei | so I had a crazy idea on how to make a super customizable unit frame design |
| 08:36.42 | Noshei | have you had a chance to look at stats and how I set it up with the drag and drop? |
| 08:37.01 | Wildtide | no, i haven't had chance to do much of anything lately |
| 08:37.13 | Noshei | I know the feeling |
| 08:38.03 | Wildtide | :) |
| 08:38.25 | Noshei | my idea is basically centered around that, where you have a list of the different UI elements the users can choose from and they drag and drop them into a grid to create their own unit frames |
| 08:39.18 | Wildtide | hmmm, that could work really nicely |
| 08:39.41 | Wildtide | i had thought about something based roughly around ag_UnitFrames (which was what I used to use in WoW) |
| 08:40.04 | Wildtide | where you'd choose which bars form the main body of the frame, and then attach other things to points on the frame |
| 08:40.11 | Wildtide | but the grid sounds a lot neater |
| 08:41.54 | Noshei | yeah I think would work out really nicely |
| 08:43.17 | Noshei | I havent entirely worked out how to handle sizing everything, but my first thought was to have a standard heigth for everything and then on the config you could have multiple of the same ui elements to increase the size of that element |
| 08:43.51 | Noshei | so if you want your HP bar twice the heigth of the mana bar you would place 2 HP elements on top of each other to act as one bar |
| 08:44.42 | Noshei | the idea being that you set it up so everything scales together and can then be dynamically sized by the user after it is created |
| 08:45.38 | Noshei | that or you set it up with the same drag sizing within the config |
| 08:45.52 | Noshei | which might be a cleaner method |
| 08:47.01 | Wildtide | the problem with drag moving/sizing in the config is that lots of unit frame elements are tiny, and sit on top of other things. without some sort of massive zoom-in functionality, it could become impossible to lay things out |
| 08:49.02 | Wildtide | i actually really like the idea of dragging things onto a grid. it seems like a good compromise between flexibility and usability |
| 08:52.33 | Wildtide | i have to admit, i'm going through a bit of an enthusiasm lull. i don't actually play Rift atm, and am subscribing purely to support Gadgets, which is kinda sad. i need SL to hit to get me fired up again :) |
| 09:07.29 | Noshei | I would be the same if not for raiding |
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| 10:27.33 | ZorbaTHut | wildtide, that's always the danger of announcing an expansion - people start thinking "oh man, that game I'm not yet playing sounds awesome! in comparison, this game I *can* play is less awesome. I'll just wait for the expansion" |
| 10:28.15 | ZorbaTHut | it's sort of a similar concept to the Osbourne Effect. |
| 10:31.29 | Wildtide | in my case, it's more to do with my guild losing it's ability to raid as most of our experienced players jumped either into hardcore guilds, or left to play GW2 |
| 10:31.45 | ZorbaTHut | ah, yeah, that happens |
| 10:32.06 | Wildtide | :) |
| 10:33.03 | Wildtide | were you at PAX this year? |
| 10:34.25 | ZorbaTHut | yep :) http://www.flickr.com/photos/digitalgamemuseum/sets/72157631504414072/ |
| 10:34.45 | ZorbaTHut | awesome as always |
| 10:34.56 | Wildtide | cool. you weren't there with Trion then? |
| 10:36.29 | ZorbaTHut | nope, they don't really need me. I dropped by the booth a few times to say hi, but I either go as a digital game museum staffmember or I volunteer as an Enforcer |
| 10:36.42 | ZorbaTHut | (and to get one of those adorable Defiance plushies) |
| 10:37.50 | Wildtide | an Enforcer? i'm picturing someone in full body armour, possibly with a mechanised exoskeleton. i'm guessing that's not quite how it works in reality |
| 10:38.16 | ZorbaTHut | well actually, one of the enforcers *does* wear chainmail. But "enforcer" is a general term for a PAX volunteer |
| 10:39.09 | ZorbaTHut | It's actually how I got my Trion job - I was an expo hall enforcer assigned to helping out the Trion and Bethesda booths. I ended up spending a lot of time looking at this new game called Rift, then introduced myself to the producer and told him he should hire me to write an addon system. |
| 10:43.57 | Wildtide | that's an awesome way to get a job :) |
| 10:44.11 | ZorbaTHut | worked quite well :) |
| 10:44.34 | Wildtide | i think we miss out a bit over here with that sort of thing. the games industry in the UK, as far as i know, doesn't have anything similar |
| 10:45.21 | ZorbaTHut | yeah, the US west coast really is a massive hub of digital gaming. I think you've got some far better board game conventions over there, but the video game scene isn't nearly as developed |
| 10:47.26 | Wildtide | on a different topic... warrior reveal is today isn't it? |
| 10:48.13 | Wildtide | really wondering what you guys have come up with - struggling to see how you can match the awesomeness of the new mage soul |
| 10:48.19 | ZorbaTHut | google seems to think so :D I'll have to tune into that one |
| 10:48.55 | ZorbaTHut | to be honest the only one I've looked at in depth is the mage soul, and that's because I accidentally randomly picked it when doing testing and then said "whoa, what's a harbinger, this isn't familiar at all" and spent fifteen minutes reading tooltips |
| 10:51.27 | Wildtide | it's the cleric i'm really waiting for tbh, which sadly is last on the list |
| 10:52.18 | Noshei | yeah just the name Defiler sounds cool |
| 10:53.44 | Wildtide | i'm "managing my expectations". being a cleric tank, and knowing that the new soul isn't a tank :( |
| 10:54.01 | Noshei | what makes you think it isn't? |
| 10:54.13 | Wildtide | also sounds death based, which is unlikely to have much synergy with Justicar |
| 10:54.29 | Wildtide | i think Zin said it wasn't somewhere. could be wrong |
| 10:56.02 | Wildtide | http://forums.riftgame.com/rift-general-discussions/classes-telara/cleric-discussion/329198-cleric-reveal-better-epic-4.html#post3917510 |
| 10:56.32 | Wildtide | it was Daglar apparently |
| 10:57.50 | Noshei | ah so he did |
| 10:58.28 | Noshei | I wasn't entirely clear on what it's role was when Scott Hartsman showed it off to me at PAX |
| 10:58.43 | Noshei | looked interesting though |
| 10:59.39 | ZorbaTHut | noshei, pax go well for you, I hope? |
| 10:59.40 | Wildtide | they were demo-ing unrevealed souls? |
| 11:00.12 | Noshei | yeah I had a ton of run, I think I came home with like 10 free t-shirts |
| 11:00.20 | ZorbaTHut | sweet :D |
| 11:00.44 | Noshei | Wildtide: Hartsman would from time to time show off some cool stuff to the people there at the booth |
| 11:00.54 | Wildtide | did you give Zorba a bag of cookies? (and our list of demands?) ;) |
| 11:01.07 | Noshei | lol |
| 11:01.30 | Noshei | Well I know Thorarin wanted LibUnitChange fixed |
| 11:02.15 | Noshei | I even got to see the new shared city, place was massive |
| 11:02.19 | NuSuey | you have trion shirts? :( I wanted to buy a RIFT shirt .. but they are all too-expensive |
| 11:02.26 | NuSuey | Noshei: |
| 11:02.27 | NuSuey | ;) |
| 11:02.48 | Noshei | I think someone said it was taking like 2-3 minutes to run across the city on a mount |
| 11:03.14 | Noshei | I'm pretty sure I got a t-shirt for all 4 of the trion games |
| 11:04.07 | Wildtide | ZorbaTHut, out of interest, what class do you play? |
| 11:04.24 | Wildtide | (as your main) |
| 11:04.36 | ZorbaTHut | wildtide, lately, the answer is "none". but generally, mage |
| 11:06.42 | Wildtide | oh well, there goes my theory that addon devs seem to play clerics :) |
| 11:07.51 | Wildtide | but my theory that all the best coders listen to rock/metal has yet to be disproved |
| 11:07.52 | ZorbaTHut | I think some people pick clerics on the theory that clerics can do everything. personally, I looked at clerics and decided I wanted more flexibility in soul combinations - "do everything" means "two or three soul choices, at most, per role" |
| 11:08.12 | ZorbaTHut | I tend to listen to techno/trance when actually coding, although I'll happily listen to rock when not coding |
| 11:09.03 | Wildtide | hmm... so either my theory is wrong, or you're a rubbish coder :D |
| 11:09.16 | ZorbaTHut | I'm hoping it's the first :V |
| 11:09.20 | Wildtide | hehe |
| 11:10.31 | Noshei | so ZorbaTHut any plans on getting access to PA and soul trees? |
| 11:11.01 | ZorbaTHut | as with most things, it's on the list |
| 11:11.23 | Wildtide | if i'd known that the cleric was the jack-of-all-trades class when i first rolled Wildtide, i would probably have chosen something else. i'd really enjoyed playing a shammy healer in WoW, and it seemed like the closest fit. ofc, i ended up MS tank and barely ever healing |
| 11:12.08 | Noshei | I've played every possible role MS on my cleric |
| 11:12.08 | ZorbaTHut | for what it's worth, I hear leveling is quite fast now with Instant Adventure and with the XP gain pots. Right now, before Storm Legion, would probably be the ideal time to switch callings. |
| 11:12.55 | Wildtide | i'm almost there tbh. it's only my mage that i need to get from 39 -> 50, and i have all 4 callings covered |
| 11:13.18 | ZorbaTHut | ah, nice |
| 11:13.40 | Wildtide | aye, i figured when SL resets all the gear, i can pick & choose which one |
| 11:14.47 | Noshei | so zorba was the new cloth engine released with 1.10? |
| 11:15.15 | Noshei | I remember someone saying that there was a new graphics engine in with 1.10 |
| 11:15.16 | ZorbaTHut | technically I think parts of it have been in the codebase since 1.9 |
| 11:15.27 | ZorbaTHut | nah, just graphical tweaks. nothing that major |
| 11:16.00 | Noshei | ah, I know I noticed a significant difference in lightning in a ton of places after the patch |
| 11:16.44 | Wildtide | i still haven't updated and logged in. suppose i'd better have a look |
| 11:17.34 | ZorbaTHut | it was basically a once-over art pass, where they updated shaders and lighting with new techniques that we developed after launch |
| 11:18.32 | Noshei | Wildtide: you so need to add profiles to buffs, thats all I need to switch over to it |
| 11:18.59 | Wildtide | what would a profile cover? filters by role? |
| 11:19.17 | Noshei | layouts/filters |
| 11:20.09 | Noshei | thats the main reason I'm still using KBB, because I can swap KBB profiles via a macro |
| 11:20.12 | Wildtide | layouts as in the whole gadget positioning and set of gadgets? or the internal layout definition for the buffs gadget? |
| 11:20.52 | Noshei | I guess you could build it in to gadgets directly, but for me I'm mainly concerned with the buffs |
| 11:21.03 | Wildtide | the problem i have with completely flexible profiles is that gadgets don't like being deleted without a reloadui |
| 11:22.26 | Noshei | role 5 |
| 11:22.26 | Noshei | loadequip 1 |
| 11:22.26 | Noshei | importkeybindings Noshei-inq |
| 11:22.26 | Noshei | kbb import Noshei-Inq |
| 11:22.38 | Noshei | thats one of the macros I use atm to swap specs |
| 11:22.44 | Wildtide | nice :) |
| 11:23.23 | Noshei | yeah lets ms really customize each spec a ton |
| 11:23.43 | Wildtide | i just use the top 2 (role/loadequip) |
| 11:24.25 | Noshei | tbh I could probably live with just being able to switch filter setups |
| 11:24.38 | Wildtide | ZorbaTHut: is frame deletion likely to happen, or is recycling the way to go? |
| 11:25.27 | Wildtide | that should be possible. it's general purpose entire gadget setups that i can't see a sensible way to achieve |
| 11:25.28 | ZorbaTHut | if it happens, it won't be for a while. go with recycling for now. |
| 11:26.21 | NuSuey | btw well is there another way to get a RIFT or Trion Worlds clothes .. than on ebay or amazon? :) trion don't got any shop thingie? :) |
| 11:26.25 | NuSuey | *doesnt |
| 11:26.56 | ZorbaTHut | http://www.jinx.com/shop/coll/rift/ :) |
| 11:27.08 | NuSuey | dunno if they ship to my country :/ |
| 11:27.22 | Wildtide | you mentioned once that you defer touching Scaleform for as long as possible. would a hidden frame that never gets shown be a really lightweight object used for positioning, or would it still create heavyweight resources in the background? |
| 11:29.53 | ZorbaTHut | if you want the lightest-weight items you can make, right now I'd say that would be children of a hidden frame |
| 11:31.22 | Wildtide | that's useful to know. i could do with using some frames purely for layout that would never have associated UI |
| 11:32.04 | NuSuey | ZorbaTHut: meh, 36$ for a shirt? :o (26euros) that isn't cheap :D |
| 11:33.02 | Wildtide | last question... (until the next one)... would it be difficult to give us the option for hollow frames? |
| 11:33.11 | ZorbaTHut | what do you mean by hollow? |
| 11:33.26 | Wildtide | just a border, not filled in |
| 11:33.58 | ZorbaTHut | that'll probably show up along with some kind of improved texture/rect layout system |
| 11:36.52 | Wildtide | it's something i could use in a few places. most of the time a solid underlay works fine, but occasionally i've wanted just a hollow border and it felt like a bit of a gap |
| 11:37.12 | ZorbaTHut | the real answer is that we need better tools for building stuff like that yourself |
| 11:39.59 | Wildtide | we need an immediate mode drawing interface... just think what we could do to RIFT's FPS! :) |
| 11:40.00 | Noshei | well a border is easy enough, but requires 2 frames |
| 11:40.24 | Wildtide | not quite. a true hollow box can't be done unless you draw it with 4 frames |
| 11:40.46 | Noshei | yeah true |
| 11:41.58 | Wildtide | something like a threat border with alpha 1.0, around a unit frame with alpha 0.7, can't really be done right now unless you build the border out of 4 really thin frames |
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| 11:43.24 | Wildtide | cascading alpha values works slightly oddly as well. i understand why it works how it does, but you can get odd effects when building borders from two overlaid frames. it happens when i fade in menus in Gadgets |
| 11:48.02 | Wildtide | where you have a white frame, and a child black frame, to create a white border effect. fading the alpha of the parent in order to fade the entire menu, results in the alpha of the black reducing, allowing more and more of the fading white background to show through. it looks kinda cool, but it wasn't the intention |
| 11:52.53 | ZorbaTHut | yeah, I'm curious how other games handle that sort of thing. if, in fact, they do |
| 11:56.58 | Wildtide | yep, it would require some clever compositing/blending of textures |
| 11:57.45 | ZorbaTHut | more likely you'd just render it to a single-purpose backbuffer, then render the backbuffer onto the screen with alpha |
| 11:59.05 | Wildtide | still not sure that would handle arbitrary alpha values throughout the frame hierarchy though |
| 11:59.40 | ZorbaTHut | well, that's why you have to do it recursively - every frame with a custom alpha value would have to be rendered to its own back buffer |
| 11:59.47 | Wildtide | yep |
| 11:59.54 | ZorbaTHut | and yeah, this would potentially be a speed hit (though not really as bad of one as you might think) |
| 12:00.00 | Imhothar | that is usually avoided by using specifically prepared textures |
| 12:00.14 | Wildtide | when i said textures above, that's what i meant - offscreen surfaces |
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| 12:03.38 | Wildtide | ello Wykkyd |
| 12:04.48 | Wildtide | i'm working on a DX11 game engine at the moment, so i'm becoming painfully familiar with chucking surfaces around :) |
| 12:07.29 | Imhothar | order dependent transparency is a major pain |
| 12:09.29 | Imhothar | hmm I never bothered with DirectX, the lack of portability is a show breaker for me |
| 12:10.06 | Wildtide | DX11 is very nice tbh. a big improvement over the DX9 API |
| 12:10.18 | Imhothar | doesn't help with the portability |
| 12:10.39 | Wildtide | no, that is true :) |
| 12:10.55 | Imhothar | I;m no fan of boing locked into a specific OS/corp |
| 12:10.59 | Imhothar | never liked that |
| 12:11.01 | Wildtide | but as my original plan was to build something for the Windows 8 store, that's not an issue for me |
| 12:12.22 | Imhothar | oh well |
| 12:42.48 | NuSuey | this will be an offtopic question, but im buying a hoodie from jinx, for how do these type of stuff sell? |
| 12:42.57 | NuSuey | ZorbaTHut: you bought from those, didnt you? :) |
| 12:45.08 | NuSuey | meh, you all are dead... |
| 12:45.09 | NuSuey | or asleep |
| 13:17.08 | Wildtide | i was eating :D |
| 13:20.31 | Wildtide | Zorba works for Trion, i doubt he has to buy the T-shirts ;) |
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| 13:27.18 | NuSuey | well i bought something from jinx. but.. well.. ZorbaTHut could sell me some stuff then ^^ |
| 13:27.24 | NuSuey | i gotz moneyz |
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| 14:20.10 | Wykkyd | Has anyone heard from Wildtide/Doomsprout? |
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| 23:47.47 | seebs | Dimensions can have *scripted events*? |
| 23:48.29 | seebs | You know, if Trion had an experienced Lua API dev, and wanted to run with a thing that other devs had messed with and had mediocre results with and try to do it better, they could do an AMAZING player-created quests/dungeons thing with that as a starting point. |