| 04:39.54 | *** join/#riftuidev Imhothar_ (miranda@ppp-93-104-165-82.dynamic.mnet-online.de) |
| 05:02.51 | *** join/#riftuidev ZorbaTHut (tocohl@maximilian.pavlovian.net) |
| 05:02.51 | *** mode/#riftuidev [+o ZorbaTHut] by ChanServ |
| 05:15.58 | ZorbaTHut | seebs, I get into political debates pretty often online, and it always amazes me how few people *ask me what my beliefs are*. I've been accused of being everything from socialist to libertarian to communist to anarchist to fascist. |
| 05:16.07 | Noshei | hey ZorbaTHut, do you know if trion has anything planned for rift at PAX? |
| 05:16.27 | ZorbaTHut | noshei, I believe the answer is "yes". I don't know what, exactly, but they'll be there. |
| 05:16.46 | ZorbaTHut | (and so will I, come up to the sixth-floor expo hall and visit the digital game museum) |
| 05:16.52 | ZorbaTHut | (</plug>) |
| 05:16.58 | Noshei | I plan on it |
| 05:17.12 | Noshei | just got my pass today so I'm really excited to go |
| 05:17.26 | Noshei | haven't been to an expo before |
| 05:17.58 | ZorbaTHut | awesome :D I assume you purchased it earlier and it just arrived by mail? |
| 05:18.03 | ZorbaTHut | (otherwise I'd be impressed that you found one) |
| 05:18.21 | Noshei | got one off e-bay |
| 05:18.27 | ZorbaTHut | aha, that'd do it |
| 05:18.51 | ZorbaTHut | pax is an enormous amount of fun, enjoy it :D |
| 05:18.53 | ZorbaTHut | (just heading afk for food, back in a while :) ) |
| 06:04.53 | *** join/#riftuidev Noshei (~quassel@c-67-161-146-244.hsd1.co.comcast.net) |
| 07:11.17 | Thorarin | *yawn* |
| 07:11.55 | Cairenn | indeed |
| 07:18.40 | ZorbaTHut | oh boy I've got a spare 150gb IDE hard drive now. can't even count the possible uses for this thing |
| 07:18.59 | ZorbaTHut | wait, zero's a number isn't it? I guess I can count them: zero. |
| 07:23.05 | Thorarin | :) |
| 07:24.40 | Thorarin | I've had 500GB SATA disks lying around being unused for years, so yeah... |
| 07:24.54 | Thorarin | Although I think I may have a 2GB IDE somewhere as well |
| 07:26.25 | ZorbaTHut | I've still got an old 80mb IDE gathering dust somewhere |
| 07:26.26 | ZorbaTHut | yes, megabytes |
| 07:27.34 | ZorbaTHut | kinda funny that my phone now has 32gb of storage. |
| 07:28.18 | Cairenn | Pretty insane, isn't it? |
| 07:28.20 | Thorarin | Hmm, not sure I still have one of those :) |
| 07:29.05 | ZorbaTHut | did you know that a modern high-end cellphone has twice the RAM of an XBox 360? |
| 07:29.32 | Thorarin | Oh.... |
| 07:29.50 | Thorarin | Zorba, when saving variables, does RIFT make a file called identifier.lua.new? |
| 07:29.59 | ZorbaTHut | And the PS Vita has more RAM than the PS3. |
| 07:30.21 | Thorarin | Because I had a file called kAlert.lua.new and it's now magically gone :p |
| 07:30.22 | ZorbaTHut | thorarin, yeah, it's in an attempt to prevent inconsistent saved variable states and recover slightly more gracefully from errors |
| 07:30.40 | ZorbaTHut | maybe I should choose a less obvious filename :V |
| 07:30.47 | Thorarin | Okay, bad name for a backup file then :< |
| 07:31.00 | ZorbaTHut | sorry 'bout that, I'll append some random characters to the end |
| 07:31.06 | Imhothar | aren't backups usually called .bak? |
| 07:31.13 | Thorarin | I already had a bak :) |
| 07:31.33 | Imhothar | like, rename the current file to .bak and attempt to write the new one? |
| 07:31.39 | Thorarin | Which was saved data from an old addon version, and this was from a new addon version :) |
| 07:32.02 | Thorarin | No, it's usually better to start with the new file and rename after writing is finished |
| 07:32.35 | Thorarin | If writing is interrupted halfway, you wouldn't be able to tell otherwise |
| 07:33.10 | Imhothar | well, usually you know pretty well whether writing succeeded or not ;) |
| 07:33.11 | Thorarin | At least, I used the exact same renaming scheme before :) |
| 07:33.25 | Thorarin | Not if the application crashes, which is what this is for |
| 07:33.44 | Imhothar | Rift shouldn't crash just from writing a file |
| 07:33.54 | Thorarin | Shouldn't... |
| 07:34.07 | Thorarin | But we don't live in an ideal world, do we :) |
| 07:34.16 | Thorarin | Then there's always power failure |
| 07:34.43 | Imhothar | And don't forget doomsday |
| 07:34.57 | Imhothar | and armageddon and the apocalypse which I think are all the same thing |
| 07:35.33 | Thorarin | *shrug* why implement it in a way that allows you to lose data when it's easily avoidable? |
| 07:35.57 | Thorarin | Using filesystem level transactions would be more modern though :) |
| 07:35.59 | Imhothar | you stil got the renamed .bak so technically nothing is lost |
| 07:36.23 | Thorarin | It requires manual action however |
| 07:36.35 | Imhothar | oh noes |
| 07:36.41 | Thorarin | And the next time you load and close RIFT the bak would be overwritten |
| 07:36.46 | Imhothar | oh noes |
| 07:36.53 | Thorarin | slaps Imhothar around a bit with a large trout |
| 07:36.59 | Imhothar | oh noes |
| 07:37.10 | Thorarin | We're talking about Users with a capital U here okay? |
| 07:39.26 | Thorarin | Well this is messed up.. two people claim they lost all their settings upon upgrading to new addon version. I can load files from 10 versions ago just fine even :S |
| 07:40.12 | Thorarin | And of course you get an error report just saying "Uhh, it doesn't work" |
| 07:40.14 | Thorarin | Users. |
| 07:41.04 | Cairenn | http://www.wowinterface.com/page-comic.html |
| 07:41.16 | ZorbaTHut | "What do you mean, 'what's wrong with it'? I already told you it doesn't work" |
| 07:41.42 | Imhothar | did you try turn it off and on again? |
| 07:43.37 | Imhothar | but as we have picture time: http://www.makeuseof.com/tech-fun/users-programmers/ |
| 07:43.54 | Cairenn | heh, yeah |
| 07:45.23 | Thorarin | Well, think I found it... forgot to test something with all my other addons turned off. Don't release shit in the middle of the night, children :( |
| 08:33.13 | Noshei | so ZorbaTHut any word on beta access for addon developers? |
| 08:43.03 | *** join/#riftuidev g0urra (~g0urra@unaffiliated/gourra) |
| 08:51.16 | ZorbaTHut | to be honest I've been too busy to ask about it, but I'll see if I can run it past someone |
| 08:51.26 | ZorbaTHut | that said, I wouldn't expect any major API changes |
| 08:53.23 | Noshei | yeah, thats no surprise with how busy you are, but I think just the general additions of abilities, zones, etc is a good reason to get us early access |
| 08:54.05 | Noshei | plus I'm really looking forward to seeing everything, the previews we gotten so far look pretty cool |
| 09:01.59 | Noshei | ZorbaTHut: how long after a new addon is released would it take to start getting error reports for it? |
| 09:07.06 | ZorbaTHut | noshei, could be less than 24 hours - it all depends on the userbase |
| 09:07.56 | Noshei | ok, wasn't sure if you had built in a certain time frame before it started sending reports |
| 09:09.31 | ZorbaTHut | nope, should be immediate |
| 09:10.01 | ZorbaTHut | there's a little delay just due to how long it takes to process data, but that's generally irrelevant. |
| 09:10.32 | Noshei | ok cool |
| 09:10.56 | Thorarin | Actually, it usually takes 2-3 days for me to see the first errors, even with a reasonably high userbase |
| 09:11.30 | Thorarin | At first I was like ZOMG this new version is perfect! :< |
| 09:11.53 | ZorbaTHut | keep in mind it still waits to see two identical errors from different users |
| 09:13.13 | Noshei | would be nice if we could have an option to add to the toc to get a daily report of all errors, even one of a kind errors |
| 09:13.29 | Thorarin | Hmm, I need errors to start popping up actual error boxes again |
| 09:13.42 | Thorarin | Me changing a lot of things to coroutines has kinda screwed that up |
| 09:13.53 | ZorbaTHut | that check exists partially for security reasons, not just for clean data reasons. :) |
| 09:14.43 | Thorarin | Would Utility.Dispatch work even within the same addon Zorba? :) |
| 09:14.55 | ZorbaTHut | thorarin, yup! |
| 09:15.10 | ZorbaTHut | that said, there may be weird effects if you yield from inside a dispatch |
| 09:15.13 | Thorarin | Because I use a queue of tasks that get run by a single coroutine thingy... |
| 09:15.28 | Thorarin | I still want a task that fails to be removed from the queue, so execution should continue |
| 09:15.39 | Thorarin | But I want to have normal error boxes :) |
| 09:16.08 | Thorarin | Weird effects... that doesn't sound good :P |
| 09:16.25 | ZorbaTHut | you're probably going to find that a bit tricky to rig up, I'm sorry to say. you may have to catch error messages via xpcall and format them yourself |
| 09:16.44 | Thorarin | Hmmm |
| 09:17.03 | Thorarin | To get the stack trace via xpcall and error() manually? |
| 09:17.56 | ZorbaTHut | yeah |
| 09:19.04 | Thorarin | Ah well, will have to do some testing |
| 09:19.26 | Thorarin | Wish there was just normal try-catch-finally :P |
| 09:19.42 | Imhothar | that's what pcall is for |
| 09:19.43 | ZorbaTHut | this is one of those situations where I end up deciding that anyone skilled enough to need these tools is skilled enough to jury-rig their own, especially when I can't come up with a sensible way to make it Just Work |
| 09:20.06 | ZorbaTHut | pcall doesn't let you preserve the stack trace |
| 09:20.36 | Imhothar | he didn't say he wanted re-throw :) |
| 09:20.42 | Thorarin | Anyway, my error reports will contain double stack traces then :) |
| 09:21.02 | Thorarin | The actual manual stack trace, and a bogus stack trace always pointing to the same line |
| 09:21.21 | ZorbaTHut | as long as you understand them, that's probably fine :) |
| 09:21.22 | Thorarin | May look a bit confusing, but I guess nobody reads them but me anyway :) |
| 09:25.34 | Thorarin | Hmm, need to rewrite from coroutine.create to coroutine.wrap as well I guess |
| 09:25.57 | Thorarin | Because the coroutine.resume effectively uses pcall |
| 09:34.55 | ZorbaTHut | note that you can also put a pcall/xpcall inside the coroutine |
| 09:36.12 | Thorarin | Yeah, was doing that actually |
| 09:47.21 | Thorarin | Still need to do the rewrite because otherwise error() doesn't give me a popup box |
| 09:47.38 | Thorarin | Unless I use Utility.Dispatch for just displaying the error |
| 09:47.55 | Thorarin | Kinda weird that way though |
| 09:53.15 | *** join/#riftuidev Noshei (~quassel@c-67-161-146-244.hsd1.co.comcast.net) |
| 09:56.07 | *** join/#riftuidev Noshei (~quassel@c-67-161-146-244.hsd1.co.comcast.net) |
| 09:58.41 | ZorbaTHut | it's weird, but to be honest it's perfectly reasonable too |
| 09:59.21 | Noshei | bah I need more in game textures!!! |
| 11:22.13 | Thorarin | Who do I bug for addon approval on RiftUI? It's been waiting for a bit now and the previous version has a nasty bug :/ |
| 11:22.58 | Thorarin | I just caught several people who just updated to that version, so I have to tell them to download from Curse instead :S |
| 11:24.12 | Thorarin | Not that I have anything against Curse, but both should be up to date :) |
| 11:24.24 | *** join/#riftuidev Noshei_Mobile (~Noshei_Mo@c-67-161-146-244.hsd1.co.comcast.net) |
| 12:37.22 | Thorarin | Noshei_Mobile - did you find any useful built-in textures? |
| 15:19.57 | Thorarin | Oh Imhothar, I found the built-in textures for some of the RIFT bag art if you're interested |
| 15:40.01 | Thorarin | Was hoping to find some of the other GUI stuff tho :< |
| 15:55.26 | Thorarin | Apparently there are separate minimap indicators for each different gathering skill 0.o |
| 15:55.49 | Thorarin | But the one that's used for everything is actually the "fish" one |
| 16:04.32 | Thorarin | Would be so much easier if I could read assets.manifest. At least I'm guessing it would :) |
| 16:10.10 | Thorarin | Oh, found a nice one :) |
| 16:10.20 | Baanano | ? |
| 16:11.05 | Thorarin | Tooltip background/border |
| 16:15.11 | Baanano | resizable? |
| 16:17.42 | Thorarin | It's.. erhm.. 256x128, but RIFT just resizes textures to the appropriate window size |
| 16:17.59 | Thorarin | If you resize too much it starts looking weird obviously |
| 16:19.14 | Thorarin | Still not the graphics I was looking for tho :< |
| 16:20.21 | Baanano | hope you publish a list of those you find :) |
| 16:49.56 | Thorarin | Putting them in an Excel sheet.. |
| 16:50.01 | Thorarin | At least for now |
| 17:36.46 | Thorarin | Found some more interesting UI graphics \o/ |
| 17:37.07 | Thorarin | Including most of the graphics for RiftWindow, but not sure what you would want with that :) |
| 17:45.10 | *** join/#riftuidev Imhothar (miranda@ppp-93-104-165-82.dynamic.mnet-online.de) |
| 20:06.07 | seebs | Thorarin: a bunch of us can doa pprovals, sometimes we're all asleep though. |
| 20:06.59 | Thorarin | I figured you sometimes sleep yeah ;) |
| 20:07.28 | Imhothar | unproven rumors |
| 20:08.19 | seebs | I was up until 7ish, I wanted to see whether I could in fact do 30 missions in TSW without stopping and thus losing track of what I was doing. Answer: yes. |
| 20:28.21 | seebs | Someone on the forums is claiming to get 90-100fps in crowded areas on Rift at max settings at >1080p. |
| 20:28.24 | seebs | I do not believe this. |
| 20:31.42 | Thorarin | Hmm, I've gotten 70FPS in Sanctum before, without a top end gfx card |
| 20:32.21 | Thorarin | But it required me to do some tweaks via the nVidia tools |
| 20:32.21 | seebs | At all-settings-maxed? If so, I'd love to know the mechanism. |
| 20:32.46 | Imhothar | You'd be surprised what kind of machines from hell money can buy |
| 20:32.48 | Thorarin | Pretty much maxed, but I was messing with the anti-aliasing algorithms I believe |
| 20:33.24 | Thorarin | For some reason, it went faster than without anti-aliasing, but I didn't like the quality |
| 20:34.15 | seebs | I really wish they had the renderer feature CoH has, where you can specify a lower rez for the 3D rendering, and it just gets scaled behind the UI. |
| 20:34.25 | seebs | I also really, really, wish they had the "defensive target" mechanic, damn that is cool. |
| 20:38.50 | Thorarin | Two separate targets for healing and attacking? |
| 20:46.02 | seebs | Yeah. |
| 20:46.17 | seebs | Whenever you click on a friendly, it becomes your "defensive target", whenever you click on a hostile, it becomes your "offensive target". |
| 20:46.47 | seebs | So leeching type powers frequently work by passing a portion of damage done to your defensive target, support-type powers tend to buff your defensive target, and so on. |
| 20:47.18 | seebs | There are a lot of power designs which are really simple to express with that mechanic, and very hard without it. |
| 20:49.02 | seebs | I also quite like their model that basically every quest but the "investigation" missions (puzzles/research) and the tutorials is repeatable daily. |
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