| 00:10.31 | *** join/#riftuidev Noshei (~quassel@c-67-161-146-244.hsd1.co.comcast.net) |
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| 08:11.31 | Wild|work | mornin' peeps |
| 08:11.41 | Noshei | morning wild |
| 08:17.01 | Noshei | Wild|work: you had a chance to checkout stats ingame yet? |
| 08:24.11 | Wild|work | no, i haven't. i meant to, but i thought i'd spend 20 minutes knocking up a quick factions gadget, and 3 hours later went to bed |
| 08:24.22 | Noshei | lol |
| 08:24.41 | Wild|work | i will have a look tonight though. the screenshots look fantastic |
| 08:26.23 | Wild|work | i was experimenting with a different way of doing things, by handling the Unlocked event and showing extra config options. i think there's some possibilities there, though it doesn't work all that well for the factions panel |
| 08:27.01 | Wild|work | because it changes size depending on what you filter out, so it's awkward to place it without knowing what the gadget's going to look like when you lock it again |
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| 16:26.25 | Thorarin | wb purl :) |
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| 18:35.13 | Imhothar | hello fellow warriors |
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| 20:31.51 | *** topic/#riftuidev is http://pastebin.com for code snippets || PIL: http://www.lua.org/pil || Rift AddOn Policy: http://t.co/7xXd4LL || AddOn Wiki: wiki.riftui.com/ || RiftUI.com || rift.curse.com |
| 20:35.40 | Wildtide | Zorba, did you find the leak in the code, or is it Thorarin's evidence you're going on atm? |
| 20:36.54 | ZorbaTHut | Thorarin's evidence, I haven't had time to look at the code unfortunately |
| 20:37.42 | Wildtide | oki. fingers crossed it's in RIFT's code and not <Flash thingy i can never remember the name of>'s code |
| 20:38.41 | ZorbaTHut | same here, but either way it's our problem now |
| 20:39.08 | Wildtide | tbh though, i bet it's only us authors that really suffer from it. can't see most players reloading much, if ever |
| 20:39.50 | ZorbaTHut | it's a sign that something is Wrong. Worth tracking down just for that. Does it slow our game down if someone opens the Social pane over and over again? I won't know until I've diagnosed it, and once I've figured out what's wrong, it's probably fast to fix |
| 20:40.26 | Wildtide | if it's in... argh, Googling... Scaleform!...'s code, don't you have to throw it over to them and wait for a fix? |
| 20:41.13 | ZorbaTHut | generally when you're making a game the size of Rift, you get source licenses for all your third-party packages. :) |
| 20:42.39 | Wildtide | i can understand that, though doesn't it wreak havoc with upgrades? |
| 20:42.47 | ZorbaTHut | Yup. |
| 20:42.50 | Wildtide | oh, ok :) |
| 20:42.54 | ZorbaTHut | :D |
| 20:43.15 | ZorbaTHut | that said, minor upgrades are usually simple enough that a good merge tool can take care of 99% of it |
| 20:43.28 | ZorbaTHut | and with major upgrades, the painful part is modifying your code to use the new APIs |
| 20:43.38 | Thorarin | Wildtide... Silverlight is still a valid option if you want a migration path to Windows 8 XAML |
| 20:43.41 | ZorbaTHut | frequently you just don't do major upgrades, they're not worth it |
| 20:44.03 | Wildtide | ah, i see. that makes sense |
| 20:44.10 | Thorarin | Or for specific LOB applications I would say |
| 20:44.27 | Thorarin | HTML+JS productivity for large apps still sucks tbh |
| 20:44.57 | Wildtide | that's totally my concern. i can see MS pushing HTML5/JS, and it's really not a road i want to go down |
| 20:45.20 | Wildtide | but i don't want to continue investing time/experience in a dead technology, and MS seem determined to kill SL |
| 20:45.42 | Thorarin | Yeah, shame really... |
| 20:45.53 | Thorarin | It's quite interesting technology |
| 20:45.55 | Wildtide | and i'm not convinced on the future of WPF either |
| 20:45.58 | Wildtide | it is, yes |
| 20:46.11 | Wildtide | it drives me nuts most of the time, but i kinda like it when i get things working |
| 20:46.19 | ZorbaTHut | personally I'm looking forward to Native Client |
| 20:46.36 | Thorarin | Windows 8 XAML is closer to SL than to WPF |
| 20:47.58 | Wildtide | yep Zorba, it'll be fun to have an excuse to use C++ again in my day job :) |
| 20:48.06 | Thorarin | I wonder if NaCl will succeed |
| 20:48.34 | Thorarin | I wouldn't bet on it :/ |
| 20:48.35 | seebs | Okay, C programmer folks, I have a MYSTERY. |
| 20:48.45 | seebs | It involves obviously buggy code, but it's still mysterious. |
| 20:48.52 | seebs | Intent: Append a directory to a path. |
| 20:48.56 | Thorarin | C is good at that :) |
| 20:49.12 | seebs | So, something like snprintf(path_buffer, size, "%s:%s", oldpath, newdir); |
| 20:49.23 | seebs | Now, imagine that you did something stupid: |
| 20:49.33 | seebs | snprintf(path_buffer, size, "%s:%s", oldpath, path_buffer); |
| 20:49.34 | ZorbaTHut | thorarin, I think it's got a good shot. It's gaining support in Chrome and there's a Firefox plugin |
| 20:49.53 | seebs | Obviously this cannot work. It's technically undefined behavior, but in practice we know snprintf will be good and will limit things to size. |
| 20:49.58 | seebs | Here is the question: |
| 20:50.00 | ZorbaTHut | the real benefit to NaCl, IMHO, is the development flexibility it gives you. |
| 20:50.06 | seebs | It actually DID work in multiple tests. |
| 20:50.08 | seebs | How? |
| 20:50.38 | Thorarin | It worked as in the new dir ended up in the string? |
| 20:50.59 | Thorarin | Because that would be rather mysterious :) |
| 20:51.58 | Imhothar | my guess is it took the length of path_buffer before appending it |
| 20:52.14 | Imhothar | which was probably 0 if snprintf was using temporary buffers for appending newdir |
| 20:52.27 | Imhothar | Imean oldpath |
| 20:52.33 | Thorarin | Often I think we should just stop this web and sandbox crap and build normal software :P |
| 20:52.58 | Wildtide | NaCL is geared around the plugin world, which Apple and M$ have both decided to kill off... but then Chrome is now theoretically the browser with biggest share... so... who knows? :) |
| 20:55.31 | Thorarin | I happen to be in a software branch where everybody wants web applications, except they don't want them to behave like actual web applications :S |
| 20:55.43 | Thorarin | It's a huge pain in the ass :P |
| 20:55.45 | Wildtide | yep, i know that feeling |
| 20:57.59 | Wildtide | so... i guess I'll work on the assumption SL will leave me in a good position if Metro works out, and carry on flogging the dead horse :) |
| 20:58.06 | Thorarin | "Make it a web app, but without the browser buttons please. And it need to visually integrate insert-desktop-application-here of course. Oh yeah, and we run all this on a Citrix server so we want it to scale well with memory! |
| 20:58.12 | Thorarin | *groan* |
| 20:58.18 | Wildtide | lol |
| 20:58.56 | Wildtide | if it's Citrix, just write a full fat application, and pretend it's web based. they'll never know :) |
| 20:59.32 | Thorarin | Wish we could have done that tbh :P |
| 21:00.11 | Wildtide | :) |
| 21:00.30 | Thorarin | But somehow we ended up with a Silverlight shell that basically does what Windows does :P |
| 21:01.02 | Thorarin | It's pretty cool in some ways, but yeah.. |
| 21:03.22 | Thorarin | Also Microsoft kinda screwed us over by announcing WS-Trust support or Silverlight and then going "Oh yeah, oops... didn't make it into SL5 final" |
| 21:04.01 | Thorarin | "But we have some sample code!" (which doesn't implement half the standard) |
| 21:04.25 | Thorarin | k.. |
| 21:04.30 | Thorarin | </rant> :> |
| 21:04.52 | Wildtide | lol |
| 21:16.16 | Thorarin | Right, best get a new KaruulAlert out, fixed a couple of bugs... |
| 21:17.13 | Wildtide | i need to release Gadgets properly at some point. i can't stay on version zero for ever |
| 21:18.09 | Wildtide | but there is so much of it i'm unhappy with, and the code is a massive heap of spahetti nastiness, that it's going to be a mammoth task to sort out |
| 21:19.12 | Imhothar | heh |
| 21:19.17 | Imhothar | ImhoBags is on version 0.12 |
| 21:19.20 | Wildtide | so for now, i'll just carry on blaming the lack of texture coords and secure frame hiding and then it's all Zorba's fault :D |
| 21:19.53 | Imhothar | version numbers are just a merketing joke anyway |
| 21:19.54 | Wildtide | due to the lack of native bag hiding no doubt? see, all ZorbaTHut's fault again... |
| 21:20.02 | Imhothar | of course |
| 21:20.43 | Imhothar | everythig is his fault |
| 21:20.50 | Imhothar | the sole fact we are talking here is his fault |
| 21:20.55 | Wildtide | all true |
| 21:24.18 | Wildtide | maybe we should all get together and write to Mr. Hartsman asking for a different developer? maybe an inexperienced graduate who will just do whatever we tell them to do? |
| 21:24.43 | Imhothar | oooh that would be nice |
| 21:25.11 | Wildtide | yep, it couldn't possibly go badly. let's do it! |
| 21:25.11 | Imhothar | who wants devs with an oppinion anyway |
| 21:25.23 | Wildtide | exactly. nothing but trouble |
| 21:25.28 | Imhothar | mindless drones ftw |
| 21:27.41 | Wildtide | Zorba, pack your bags, you're being replaced with ZorbaTStudentOnAWorkPlacementScheme :) |
| 21:28.31 | ZorbaTHut | that would be a *great* idea :V |
| 21:28.36 | Wildtide | we think so :D |
| 21:29.18 | Imhothar | even better: we know it |
| 21:30.07 | Baanano | ? |
| 21:30.17 | Wildtide | ofc, if it was a student, they'd only know JS and HTML5, which may have an adverse effect on client performance |
| 21:31.27 | Imhothar | oh, now you might just have saved Zorba;s job |
| 21:31.53 | Wildtide | i know, i'm not sure we really thought it through |
| 21:32.14 | Baanano | how can you think it would be a good idea to replace the evil lord with a code monkey? |
| 21:33.02 | Baanano | what you need to do is make him think whatever you want was his own idea :P |
| 21:33.33 | Imhothar | hmm we need a psychology guy in here |
| 21:34.51 | Wildtide | isn't seebs a fully qualified psycologist? |
| 21:34.59 | Baanano | pavlov reinforcement would have worked if you had sent the cookies, but did you? |
| 21:35.21 | Wildtide | don't we have to ring a bell and electrocute him for that? |
| 21:36.00 | Imhothar | I'd send him cookies if I knew they wouldn't turn alive until they arrived in SF |
| 21:36.37 | Imhothar | with a new healthy looking green skin |
| 21:36.59 | Wildtide | nice! |
| 21:37.33 | Baanano | well you can send them as a negative reinforcement also |
| 21:37.55 | Baanano | "this is what happens to cookies if we don't have a collectibles api soon!" |
| 21:38.35 | Imhothar | I fear that only works on the cookie monster |
| 21:44.01 | seebs | I don't think a degree qualifies as "fully qualified". |
| 21:45.32 | Baanano | http://images5.fanpop.com/image/photos/31200000/lol-cookie-monster-31227322-357-500.jpg |
| 21:46.00 | Thorarin | <Imhothar> mindless drones ftw |
| 21:46.23 | Thorarin | Just outsource to India, problem solved |
| 21:50.44 | Thorarin | Looking at the changelog... I need to start sucking less :< |
| 22:02.16 | seebs | Heh |
| 22:07.47 | Wildtide | lol |
| 22:13.02 | Wildtide | but is a degree enough to teach you how to bend Zorba's will, and make him do what we want, using only IRC? |
| 22:21.52 | *** join/#riftuidev Noshei (~quassel@c-67-161-146-244.hsd1.co.comcast.net) |
| 22:22.38 | Baanano | here you have what you need to bend a person will |
| 22:22.44 | Baanano | a sysadmin! |
| 22:23.17 | Imhothar | the one with no mental sanity? |
| 22:23.28 | Imhothar | I'm sure that's of big help |
| 22:38.34 | seebs | Persuasion is one of my fields of interest. |
| 22:39.01 | seebs | If you find yourself wanting to persuade people and not succeeding, I can almost certainly tell you why, because everyone makes the EXACT same mistake. |
| 22:48.04 | Imhothar | and he won't tell us |
| 22:49.42 | Noshei | evening everyone |
| 22:51.47 | seebs | It's pretty easy, really. |
| 22:52.22 | seebs | Say someone was coming to visit, and you wanted to give them directions to your house. You might start by briefly saying about where you live to orient them, but past that, the first thing you are going to do is ask them where they are coming from. |
| 22:52.37 | seebs | Because you need to know where they're starting to describe a path that gets to where you are. |
| 22:52.56 | Noshei | nice, just got my beta key for end of nations |
| 22:52.57 | seebs | And yet, when people try to persuade someone of something, they almost never do that. |
