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| 14:29.07 | ZorbaBeta | just FYI, there's a pile of new stuff on the PTS. I'll be putting together documentation most likely tomorrow. |
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| 17:01.33 | Kreiri | is there a low quality renderer fix in that pile of new stuff? :) |
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| 17:34.25 | seebs | Cool, we shall look forward to your exciting new madness. |
| 17:34.41 | seebs | I'd point out that thanks to your API updates, I have yet to seriously explore ember isle. |
| 17:39.58 | ZorbaBeta | I do my best :) |
| 17:46.48 | Hyperi | Wonder where I can complain how Mages bug evilly .< |
| 17:47.06 | Hyperi | Forums? |
| 17:49.19 | seebs | We should organize a campaign to complain that, while Blizzard treats addon devs like adults, Trion is all hand-holding and insulting by implying we need documentation to write addons. |
| 17:50.21 | ZorbaBeta | We even fix addon environment bugs. Takes all the challenge out, really. |
| 17:50.58 | ZorbaBeta | hyperi, forums are a good choice - there's a dedicated PTS forum |
| 17:52.29 | seebs | Am I right to believe that, as of this writing, there's no way for my bag frames to provide a target which will interact-on-right-click (equip or move to bank or sell, contextually)? |
| 17:53.41 | ZorbaBeta | if you code it yourself, it can, though some of that isn't really achievable. I've actually got in my TODO list hooks to provide a generic behave-like-it-was-right-clicked function |
| 17:54.01 | ZorbaBeta | the actual process we use to decide what to do is rather a pain and I don't expect anyone to reproduce it accurately |
| 17:54.21 | seebs | Yeah, and to some extent I don't want to reproduce it, just inherit it. |
| 17:54.45 | ZorbaBeta | *nod* yeah, there are a lot of cases where my response is "do it yourself", but that ain't one of 'em |
| 17:54.59 | seebs | Because if you change your behaviors, I don't want mine to suddenly be different... |
| 17:55.39 | seebs | I'm closing in on being happy with my filtering stuff for inventory. At this point, the largest remaining barrier is pop-up menus. |
| 17:55.46 | seebs | Well. Largest I've perceived. |
| 17:55.50 | ZorbaBeta | The downside is that it's a bit tricky to figure out how it should behave. I might provide a Command.Item.* function that skips sensitive behavior in combat and a macro that doesn't skip sensitive behavior |
| 17:56.10 | ZorbaBeta | which unfortunately means that you still won't be able to precisely duplicate the existing bags |
| 17:56.17 | nicoli_s | any map stuff in the new PTR addon push ZorbaBeta? |
| 17:56.21 | seebs | I'm quite positively impressed with /interact. Solves a lot of problems. |
| 17:56.32 | ZorbaBeta | nicoli, no, won't be going in for 1.7 unfortunately. On the todo list though :) |
| 17:56.52 | nicoli_s | mmk |
| 17:57.01 | nicoli_s | then i have an incentive to actually finish my addons :P |
| 17:57.10 | ZorbaBeta | that said, I have done some planning on how it'll work, and the designers are fine with me giving out quite a lot of info. Minimap addons should be quite powerful. :) |
| 17:57.58 | seebs | So, I have developed a Theory. |
| 17:58.30 | seebs | People complain about addons making fights "easier". I have formed a theory that the designer intent is that the challenge in a fight consists of doing the right thing. |
| 17:58.44 | seebs | And that the *intent* is that it is never hard to perceive what a boss is doing. |
| 17:59.06 | seebs | So any time an addon makes it easier for someone to see what's happening, it is improving compliance with the intended design of the fight. |
| 17:59.23 | seebs | I theorize this just because there are so many red circles and triangles being drawn by the engine already. |
| 17:59.31 | seebs | Well, arcs, not really triangles. |
| 17:59.41 | ZorbaBeta | seebs, I think it's hard to generalize that much. I think you've nailed *good* designer intent, but there are many, many bad designers out there :V Rift designers are on board with that idea, from what I can tell, though. |
| 17:59.58 | seebs | Well, yeah, I do mean just in rift in particular. |
| 18:00.00 | ZorbaBeta | There's a lot of designers in the world who still think it's fun to make players figure out fights by trial and error and guesswork. |
| 18:00.16 | seebs | So basically, no amount of an addon telling you what is happening is ever breaking the intended design of a fight. |
| 18:00.30 | ZorbaBeta | *nod* yeah, I'm not in Design so I can't say for certain (and if I was, I still couldn't say, if you get my drift) but I've never heard anyone talk with glee about confusing players. |
| 18:00.36 | seebs | This completely eradicates the class of problems "but you were supposed to have to notice those three pixels". |
| 18:00.56 | ZorbaBeta | well, that's a complete lie, but not in any sense that they're actually planning on implementing. We do occasionally have worst-idea-imaginable competitions :V |
| 18:05.56 | seebs | Oooh. |
| 18:06.01 | seebs | I so want in on that. |
| 18:06.07 | seebs | I am a *champion* of worst-idea-ever. |
| 18:06.27 | seebs | Consider the category "real guns with orange plastic muzzles". |
| 18:07.40 | seebs | Do you include "worst rationale" or is it just the idea itself? |
| 18:08.38 | seebs | "To encourage high-level players to queue for random dungeons, alleviating the player shortage at low levels, we occasionally upgrade a boss in a low-level dungeon to level 50 including epic level 50 loot." |
| 18:08.46 | ZorbaBeta | usually things that would cause the most damage to the game, or have the worst imaginable cost/benefit tradeoff. |
| 18:09.03 | seebs | "We should give a +20 bonus to primary stat per month since a character was created." |
| 18:09.13 | ZorbaBeta | One of my favorite terrible ideas - change the Bard soul to require a DDR dance pad and a Guitar Hero controller. You move by pushing buttons on the dance pad, and you cast spells with chords on the guitar. |
| 18:09.21 | seebs | That is pretty good. |
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| 18:09.29 | seebs | Hmm. |
| 18:09.31 | ZorbaBeta | I imagine it would be super-popular among all five of the people who bothered to set it up. |
| 18:10.05 | seebs | Support RPers by adding a new "RP soul" to each calling, which has all the sex acts in it. |
| 18:10.28 | seebs | It's beautiful because it simultaneously kills your T rating, wastes a huge amount of development effort, and mortally insults the bulk of the RP community. |
| 18:10.31 | ZorbaBeta | our poor animators :V |
| 18:11.18 | seebs | Allow R8 PvPers to queue for "enemy raids" which puts them in random raid instances being run by players of the other faction. |
| 18:12.04 | ZorbaBeta | actually, I've been seriously suggesting a sort of competitive-pve instance, where the bulk of each side runs a PvE gauntlet and a few players get to possess mobs to interfere with the other side |
| 18:12.12 | nicoli_s | thatd be cool |
| 18:12.17 | ZorbaBeta | sort of like Left 4 Dead, in MMO form |
| 18:12.18 | nicoli_s | i know some asion mmo is doing something like that |
| 18:12.23 | seebs | That would be sort of fun! |
| 18:12.30 | ZorbaBeta | I'm not sure anyone wants to try designing it though ;) |
| 18:12.37 | seebs | I wouldn't do it, 'cuz it'd hit my PvP-squick, but it sounds like a fun concept. |
| 18:12.58 | Kreiri | I read something recently on Massively about game with "boss sidekick" system |
| 18:13.12 | seebs | Automatically ban any player who reaches level 20 without dying because "they must be cheating somehow". |
| 18:13.14 | Kreiri | Age of Wushu or something like that |
| 18:13.22 | ZorbaBeta | now that we have the ability to replace your ability bar as of Ember Isle, it'd actuallly be possible, too |
| 18:13.35 | ZorbaBeta | in original Rift you got a special title for hitting 25 without dying, as I remember |
| 18:13.42 | seebs | Yeah, I believe so. |
| 18:13.44 | seebs | Hmm. |
| 18:13.44 | ZorbaBeta | pretty sure we took that out before release |
| 18:14.01 | seebs | I haven't seen the replace-ability-bar thing. I'd bet that would suck for me since I have nothing bound to the main ability bar. |
| 18:14.12 | ZorbaBeta | yeah, it's pretty dang awkward for me too |
| 18:14.20 | ZorbaBeta | it's used in a few places in Ember Isle |
| 18:14.22 | Kreiri | it's a become-an-elemental race quest |
| 18:14.39 | Kreiri | and other time during one of water invasion phases |
| 18:14.40 | seebs | One of my least favorite aspects of the UI right now is the stealth counter being bolted to the side of a bar I don't use. |
| 18:15.00 | Kreiri | stealth counter? |
| 18:15.12 | ZorbaBeta | that might be fixable via addons, I think the stealth effect is just a buff. |
| 18:15.25 | Kreiri | if you mean stealth timer, get KBB |
| 18:15.43 | Kreiri | make group with filter n=Stealth :) |
| 18:16.20 | seebs | That may well be fixable, I just dislike the built-in UI's choice there. :) |
| 18:16.39 | Kreiri | I didn't even know that was a biult-in stealth timer |
| 18:17.47 | Kreiri | Rolled a rogue, "where is stealth buff? Ok, let's try n=Stealth..." |
| 18:18.36 | seebs | Yeah, it's on the left side of the default bar. |
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| 18:32.30 | Hyperi | ZorbaBeta: Well the bug is in live |
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| 18:33.11 | Hyperi | ZorbaBeta: Basically if you're in mage dps build which is PyroLockArchon, and you get instant cinderburst proc and you get instant oppoturnity proc (from warlock soul), it sometimes consumes both |
| 18:33.27 | Hyperi | It's small difference in overall damage and dps, but annoys everytime |
| 18:35.02 | ZorbaBeta | ah, that might actually be as-designed. But you could post it on the general forums. |
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| 18:39.32 | Kreiri | IIRC consuming both procs is WAI |
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| 19:18.00 | seebs | I believe they have said in the past that it's not supposed to consume both, and have fixed at least some such cases. |
| 19:18.20 | seebs | But that specific case may be different from other cases. In general, though, a spell which would be instant-cast without a proc is not supposed to use the proc. |
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| 19:26.29 | seebs | DDO is adopting a big hunk of the soul system design, including "root" abilities. |
| 19:28.00 | Kreiri | anyone here speaks python? |
| 19:28.09 | seebs | A little, unwillingly. |
| 19:28.11 | seebs | I dislike it a lot. |
| 19:29.19 | seebs | ... |
| 19:29.20 | Kreiri | I already forgot what I knew :) [(100.0, 100.0, 100.0)] - have trouble accessing these 100.0 |
| 19:29.36 | seebs | Inspect.Auction.*()... just a sec, gotta go tell spouse I have fallen in love |
| 19:30.01 | seebs | Hmm. That's an odd... I don't know what that means off the top of my head. |
| 19:30.12 | Kreiri | as in, I forgot syntax for accessing data structures |
| 19:30.57 | seebs | Well, [foo, bar] is an array, so if you have a = [ 100.0, 200.0 ] then a[0] == 100.0 |
| 19:31.02 | seebs | But I don't know about the inner () |
| 19:31.24 | Kreiri | there is a word "tuple" on the boundary of my mind |
| 19:31.48 | Kreiri | but I don't remember and 'm not sure |
| 19:31.51 | seebs | ohh |
| 19:32.17 | seebs | Yeah, I think that's right. |
| 19:32.32 | seebs | So that's an array containing a single item, which is a tuple of three items. |
| 19:32.39 | seebs | I think. |
| 19:33.08 | seebs | So! |
| 19:33.18 | seebs | a = [(1, 2, 3)] |
| 19:33.22 | seebs | x, y, z = a[0] |
| 19:33.30 | seebs | sets x to 1, y to 2, z to 3 |
| 19:35.46 | seebs | So, Inspect.Auction.*()... how long do we have to have stacks upon stacks of dwarves standing by the auctioneer in Sanctum before we get a "grab the whole set" function? :) |
| 19:38.40 | seebs | ... This, of course, just increases my desire to have a pop-up menu thing. I suppose I could just write one. |
| 19:42.52 | seebs | hmm |
| 19:42.55 | seebs | I have thought of a problem |
| 19:43.18 | seebs | Imagine that I wish to post something in stacks of 1. Presumably I do this by Command.Item.Split()... but wait! |
| 19:43.27 | seebs | I don't have any way of knowing where the new stack of 1 appears. |
| 19:43.56 | seebs | I think that may call for some kind of callback/notification thing. |
| 19:44.08 | seebs | I propose: |
| 19:44.21 | seebs | Command.Callback(command, callback, aux, ...) |
| 19:44.26 | seebs | Such that: |
| 19:44.44 | seebs | Command.Callback(Command.Item.Split, myfunc, 23, (args for split)) |
| 19:45.01 | seebs | results in myfunc(23, response info) being called when the Split is done. |
| 19:45.36 | seebs | (The "aux" thing is so I can track more than one command at once in a sane way.) |
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| 21:03.13 | RagebeastRT | Seebs, you around? |
| 21:11.16 | seebs | Sorta. |
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| 22:32.42 | seebs | I would love to know what percentage of counts have at least one character that has ever even zoned into the HK raid instance. |