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| 02:17.11 | seebs | Zorba, if you happen to drop by: I think I've found an actual potential problem (admittedly minor) in the item API. |
| 02:17.40 | seebs | Consider if you will the straightforward task of creating a bag-sorting addon. All it wants to do is, say, move all materials into bag 5. |
| 02:18.23 | seebs | The issue I'm seeing is that if an item update event comes in somewhere near when I'm trying to move an item, it's not obvious to me how I could tell whether I need to do anything about that update. |
| 02:19.10 | seebs | More generally, if I've queued up a bunch of Command.Item.Move(), unless I keep a table of all the moves I think are possibly-pending, I risk reissuing now-inaccurate commands when I see updates. |
| 02:20.05 | seebs | This is sort of vague, but I am thinking that it'd be SUPER handy to have some kind of way to find out which specific slots or items were affected to produce an update. |
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| 03:14.16 | starlon | Can you move items in combat? |
| 03:14.47 | starlon | could look it up, but just wondered. |
| 03:25.36 | seebs | I assume so, but I bet you can't move them to or from equipment slots. |
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| 04:49.02 | lXl | So I'm wondering about getting back into Rift but in a lot of classes most skills are trivialized, either in function or with so many repeats many skills lose their flavor |
| 04:49.42 | lXl | Mostly cleric because of druid/shaman, considering finishing my rogue or trying mage. I know rogue has a lot of duplicate skills too :( |
| 05:01.23 | seebs | I am not sure I understand what you're saying. |
| 05:01.48 | seebs | There are a lot of overlaps between low-level basic abilities in various souls, which is a side-effect of one of the other design goals. |
| 05:02.07 | seebs | Basically, if you don't have every soul have some kind of basic attack, people can't just play any soul they want from level 1. |
| 05:02.18 | seebs | Past that things spread out a bit more. :) |
| 05:02.46 | seebs | On any given build I usually have a handful of abilities that never make it to bars. |
| 05:06.16 | seebs | FWIW, I'm a huge fan of rogue. |
| 05:06.19 | seebs | I have like four of them. |
| 05:07.57 | seebs | A while back I ended up doing all of Silverwood on a ranger, and then doing all of Silverwood on a marksman about a week later. I was pretty impressed at how different they felt. |
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| 05:34.17 | lXl | Yeah I know, rogue might have a bit more diversity now but cleric for the most part has been pretty boring. |
| 05:34.53 | lXl | Some souls just seem bland or too much like another soul |
| 05:36.36 | seebs | Huh. I haven't messed around that much on my cleric. |
| 05:37.08 | seebs | I recently started playing mostly cabalist for soloing. It's not as ludicrously tough as inquisicar, but it's more fun for me. |
| 05:49.05 | lXl | I liked the old cab |
| 05:49.28 | lXl | Mostly because I could AoE for like 10k+ :\ |
| 05:51.07 | seebs | I don't entirely mind some of the simplifications. I tended to get a bit "OMG TOO MANY BUTTONS WTF" with it. |
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| 06:05.29 | lXl | I need to find another shard or something |
| 06:06.08 | seebs | I'm happy on Faeblight. I have a vanity guild and I hang out in an RPer channel if I want to socialize with people. |
| 06:06.37 | lXl | RP people would hate me |
| 06:06.48 | seebs | How so? |
| 06:07.11 | lXl | Not that I would troll or anything, but my excuse for /rp in EQ was being an Erudite that didn't want to interact with people. |
| 06:07.25 | seebs | That doesn't seem to bug people. |
| 06:07.27 | lXl | I'm just on the other end of the spectrum |
| 06:07.45 | seebs | People in rift seem to be pretty good about "I'm not really RPing, I'm just here for the server with spelling and punctuation". |
| 06:07.56 | lXl | Hmm |
| 06:08.10 | seebs | As long as you aren't going out of your way to insult them, pretty much. |
| 06:08.13 | lXl | I'd kind of like to maybe raid later at night |
| 06:08.30 | seebs | I knew a late-night raiding guild in WoW, but only the one. |
| 06:08.30 | lXl | Fae has a nice pop according to riftstatus |
| 06:08.54 | lXl | I've generally been evening shifts at jobs for the past years so I usually raided with Aussies in WoW |
| 06:09.15 | seebs | If you're looking for aussies, go to the Oceanic servers. |
| 06:09.23 | seebs | Although Fae has a few, I think. |
| 06:09.45 | lXl | I'm in America so I don't really want to go ocean |
| 06:10.08 | seebs | The Oceanic servers are in the same place as everything else; they're just tagged to help people hook up. |
| 06:10.37 | lXl | Which ones are the oceanic |
| 06:10.53 | seebs | Laethys and Dayblind, I think? |
| 06:11.00 | seebs | ... woot! It's not an artifacting run until you die. |
| 06:11.26 | lXl | Dayblind has a nice population apaprently |
| 06:11.54 | lXl | I need to level to 50 in the first place though |
| 06:12.28 | seebs | heh |
| 06:12.32 | lXl | Wow my realm fell towards the bottom of the population list |
| 06:13.03 | seebs | Everything seems a little dead right now -- there was a BIG hit when Skyrim showed up. :) |
| 06:13.10 | lXl | Oh gee, why is that |
| 06:13.20 | lXl | :P |
| 06:13.28 | lXl | Skyrim comes out.. I buy Oblivion |
| 06:13.40 | lXl | Then play Civ V for hours on end instead. |
| 06:13.47 | Aurorus | Dayblind sucks, btw |
| 06:13.51 | lXl | :( |
| 06:14.24 | seebs | Heh, I just ignored it and worked on my baggotry. |
| 06:14.46 | Aurorus | There's a massive population imbalance |
| 06:15.00 | lXl | Ew |
| 06:15.03 | Aurorus | On a good day, there are about 5 to 1 Defiants to Guardians |
| 06:15.03 | lXl | Well it is PvP |
| 06:15.09 | Aurorus | On a bad day, it gets to about 20 to 1 |
| 06:15.23 | lXl | Sounds like Belmont, favor Defiant |
| 06:15.27 | Aurorus | Literally, as a Guardian you cannot get close enough to a zone event boss to get a hit in |
| 06:15.31 | seebs | I once met an Alliance player from Cho'Gal! |
| 06:16.02 | lXl | What level is the new content anyway? |
| 06:16.10 | seebs | Roughly 52ish. |
| 06:16.19 | lXl | Equivalent? |
| 06:16.26 | seebs | Things are labeled 52. |
| 06:16.28 | lXl | Or most mobs are 52 rather? |
| 06:16.29 | lXl | Ah |
| 06:16.35 | lXl | So it's like XP beach kinda.. |
| 06:16.36 | Aurorus | So yeah, Dayblind currently sucks and Guardians are having to resort to sitting in Sanctum and queing for WFs |
| 06:16.49 | lXl | Nice, I was hoping Trion would add something like that in, post 50 zones. |
| 06:16.50 | Aurorus | Which further makes the population of Guardians out on the landscape less |
| 06:17.01 | lXl | Please tell me there's reason to explore it too.. |
| 06:17.07 | lXl | Other than the scenery |
| 06:17.19 | seebs | Whole new categories of events, story content, etc. |
| 06:18.14 | lXl | Well wish list item #1 is knocked out, #2 left, seeing another calling :D |
| 06:19.08 | seebs | ... ooooh. |
| 06:19.15 | seebs | there is a bunny who leads you to the IPP puzzle! |
| 06:19.19 | lXl | Lol |
| 06:19.25 | seebs | .. which involves making a bunny run around. |
| 06:19.51 | seebs | The attention to detail really is amazing. |
| 06:20.00 | lXl | I hope so if you're writing addons |
| 06:20.28 | seebs | I mean Trion's level of sort of background Stuff Happening. I am constantly finding new things in zones I thought I knew pretty well. |
| 06:22.17 | seebs | Random wandering triggers for ambushes, for instance. |
| 06:23.20 | lXl | Is HK super hard or something? |
| 06:23.45 | seebs | Heck if I know. |
| 06:23.57 | lXl | Looks like a lot of prog threads are around 4/10 or whatever |
| 06:23.59 | lXl | 4/11? |
| 06:24.02 | seebs | Yeah. |
| 06:24.19 | seebs | Thus the hilarity of the outraged thread saying that rift will lose a ton of subscribers unless Akylios gets nerfed. |
| 06:24.24 | lXl | Trion isn't going for the.. let everyone see the content side are they |
| 06:24.39 | seebs | Sure they are! They're just doing it... well, not very quickly. :) |
| 06:24.50 | seebs | Come to think of it, though. Hmm. |
| 06:25.07 | lXl | It's what made EQ raiding fun, why WoW raiding started sucking through WotLK |
| 06:25.11 | seebs | I know a couple of raiders who were gloating about having figured out some of the master DD mechanics a week or so after launch. |
| 06:25.36 | seebs | They do seem to be pretty willing to have something be tough enough that people can't just wander in. |
| 06:28.33 | seebs | Fine by me. |
| 06:28.49 | seebs | I think in the long run it's good to have ways for people to get to see stuff, but I don't mind if it takes a fair while. |
| 06:30.57 | lXl | Well I think people assume it's for the gloat aspect, but what really made EQ fun for me is knowing there were these amazing raids that people have seen that I wouldn't get to see for a long while. |
| 06:31.44 | lXl | Actually our server was the Mac server so nobody had really seen it on there yet, after a year or so we had gotten through most of the first two expansions, working towards the end of the third, and barely breaking into PoP. It was amazing to finally get there and see the raid bosses. |
| 06:31.54 | seebs | I have a crazy thought which I have toyed with. |
| 06:32.10 | seebs | Here is my crazy thought: Imagine that in an expansion, they bump the level cap... *and all the endgame content with it*. |
| 06:32.11 | lXl | Then again, some raid bosses were a single boss encounter inside a regular zone, so it didn't take literally all night to get through the raid. |
| 06:32.18 | lXl | Nah |
| 06:32.36 | lXl | EQ bumped the cap 5 at a time but the raids were still difficult with the level raised |
| 06:33.15 | seebs | Yeah, but say the T1 dungeons wouldn't be so rough with 5 levels on them. |
| 06:33.38 | seebs | But one of the things that sucked in WoW is that when you made 70, there was only a small amount of new raid and dungeon content. |
| 06:33.46 | seebs | All the old stuff was trivial at that point. |
| 06:37.22 | lXl | Exactly why EQ was fun |
| 06:37.24 | lXl | It wasn't |
| 06:37.53 | lXl | They also didn't have leveling gear, usually you had grey equivalent junk the whole way up |
| 06:38.13 | lXl | Or if you had some cash bought some white equivalent crated gear or bought a couple of green equivalent drops |
| 06:38.40 | lXl | And you usually used some of that leveling gear in entry to raiding cause of the stats |
| 06:40.25 | lXl | There's a guild on your shard that raids late night.. they start when I get off work :\ |
| 06:40.42 | lXl | I might try Faeblight out |
| 06:41.54 | lXl | My mages name is taken :( |
| 06:43.17 | seebs | Aww. |
| 06:43.28 | lXl | I can use the original version though :) |
| 06:44.21 | lXl | OOH and if I play my mage.. it's the one that looks like Boxxy |
| 06:44.49 | lXl | Are you Guardian? |
| 06:46.57 | seebs | I play both, depending. |
| 06:47.04 | seebs | I'm most active Defiant at the moment. |
| 06:47.05 | lXl | What's your defiant |
| 06:47.15 | seebs | I have like six. |
| 06:47.29 | seebs | I'm currently on Katrinka the Friendly, who is out artifact-hunting. |
| 06:48.52 | lXl | Or don't talk to me |
| 06:49.08 | seebs | Multitasking too much. |
| 06:49.11 | lXl | Lol |
| 06:49.34 | lXl | This char was Katyra on Belmont but this is the version I used mostly in WoW |
| 06:50.09 | seebs | I have a couple of WoW rerolls. |
| 06:50.15 | seebs | Not very exact. |
| 06:50.30 | lXl | Ugh |
| 06:50.37 | lXl | I didn't copy my layout |
| 06:50.51 | seebs | Do you have a character left on Belmont who has it? |
| 06:50.55 | lXl | Yeah |
| 06:50.56 | seebs | You can /exportui it. |
| 06:51.02 | lXl | Oh I forgot about that |
| 06:52.08 | seebs | Heh, I got a full stack of drakefoot stems so far on this run. |
| 07:13.16 | starlon | damn weather's got me sleeping all the time |
| 07:13.30 | lXl | What kind of weather? |
| 07:13.48 | starlon | cloudy humid |
| 07:13.53 | starlon | chilly |
| 07:13.58 | lXl | Same here plus rainy |
| 07:14.07 | starlon | we get a little rain sometimes |
| 07:14.18 | lXl | We don't |
| 07:14.18 | starlon | we need more though :) |
| 07:14.23 | lXl | Texas is confused right now |
| 07:14.28 | starlon | hehe yep |
| 07:14.37 | starlon | What part of Texas are you in? |
| 07:14.40 | lXl | Dallas |
| 07:14.42 | starlon | I'm in Central |
| 07:14.45 | starlon | Temple |
| 07:14.48 | starlon | coolness |
| 07:14.51 | lXl | I grew up in Morgans Point |
| 07:14.57 | starlon | hehe nice |
| 07:15.08 | lXl | There's a condo out there. |
| 07:15.18 | lXl | I grew up next to it (before it went up that is) |
| 07:15.27 | starlon | cool |
| 07:15.47 | starlon | I'm ready to move from Texas |
| 07:15.50 | lXl | No |
| 07:15.54 | starlon | but I'm kind of stuck |
| 07:15.57 | lXl | Everywhere else sucks |
| 07:16.02 | starlon | oh? |
| 07:16.23 | starlon | I'd move to Germany if I could. |
| 07:16.35 | starlon | even though I don't speak thelanguage |
| 07:16.45 | lXl | Okay maybe out of the US, but for the rest of the states Texas is fine for me |
| 07:16.53 | starlon | hehe |
| 07:17.14 | lXl | Dallas is nice |
| 07:17.34 | starlon | I wouldn't be too sad to move to Austin tbh |
| 07:17.40 | lXl | Austin is nice too |
| 07:17.49 | starlon | But I'm used to living out in the country |
| 07:17.51 | lXl | Anywhere but Houston but Dallas is getting bad too |
| 07:18.03 | starlon | heh |
| 07:18.51 | lXl | Once you get in a city you become grateful for having more to do than go to the only mall around.. or be able to buy groceries any time of day or night |
| 07:19.14 | lXl | Just so much stuff to explroe |
| 07:19.20 | starlon | nods. |
| 07:19.29 | starlon | I'm a recluse. |
| 07:19.59 | starlon | Give me a room and a computer and I'm peachy |
| 07:19.59 | lXl | Texas also has a lot of the internets |
| 07:20.05 | starlon | heh |
| 07:20.11 | starlon | I'm on DSL |
| 07:20.52 | lXl | Like, ID is down the street |
| 07:21.06 | lXl | Well, more like down the highway but I believe they're on my side of Dallas |
| 07:21.21 | starlon | ID? |
| 07:21.30 | lXl | ID Software |
| 07:21.33 | starlon | Oh |
| 07:21.52 | lXl | Oh wow, actually they're next to where I work. |
| 07:22.01 | starlon | cool |
| 07:28.25 | lXl | Rift really is beautiful though |
| 07:28.50 | Torhal | installs Ultima Online on lXl. |
| 07:28.57 | lXl | Wat |
| 07:38.13 | starlon | I can't get into Rift |
| 07:38.17 | starlon | I'm lvl 28 |
| 07:38.42 | lXl | I'm 19 on my mage |
| 07:38.44 | starlon | I burnt myself out on games in nWoW I think |
| 07:39.07 | Torhal | Play Pong, IMO. |
| 07:39.35 | starlon | installs Pong on Torhal. |
| 07:39.54 | Torhal | slams a pixel into starlon, killing him. |
| 07:40.01 | starlon | :( |
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| 07:43.24 | lXl | Screw pong.. play centipede |
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| 07:43.32 | lXl | http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/537029 HUMAN centipede |
| 07:43.37 | Torhal | http://i.imgur.com/yZulN.jpg |
| 07:43.56 | lXl | Why so much cabbage? |
| 07:44.04 | Torhal | For the win. |
| 07:44.19 | Torhal | It's either that, or this: http://i.imgur.com/fDRhC.jpg |
| 07:44.43 | starlon | cool game |
| 07:45.33 | starlon | My parents play those games where you search in big piles of junk for otherpieces of junk. |
| 07:48.10 | Torhal | That's not the point of this game. Someone actually found all of those weapons and threw them into piles in the room |
| 07:48.17 | Torhal | Skyrim ^^ |
| 07:48.58 | starlon | heh |
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| 08:02.53 | lXl | Someone needs to clean that room up |
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| 08:07.14 | lXl | TIL: Skyrim is for hoarders |
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| 08:09.01 | Cairenn | Night all |
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| 08:14.21 | starlon | I wonder if you can pile that stuff up to the ceiling. |
| 08:14.31 | lXl | Challenge accepted |
| 08:14.35 | starlon | hehe |
| 08:14.44 | lXl | But I don't have Skyrim :( |
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| 08:59.54 | starlon | yawns. |
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| 09:44.36 | lXl | You know what I haven't done in a while? Climb up a door frame. |
| 09:56.23 | kreiri | Question: when game iterates over event table, does it use pairs or ipairs? |
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| 10:16.54 | Snstr | ello folks |
| 10:18.08 | Snstr | so before sleep I thought abt smth to monitor if the player is in party and its size |
| 10:18.45 | Snstr | can just add another function to the LibUnitChange events thats watching and counting |
| 10:19.22 | Snstr | so for the party size it would be all non-false returns of LibUnitChange + 1 |
| 10:19.38 | Snstr | no more for loop grinding |
| 10:20.03 | Snstr | question is if its worth it :P |
| 10:50.31 | lXl | Is it bad to eat a whole pack of jello? |
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| 11:03.57 | starlon | Not as long as there's ever clear involved. |
| 11:04.14 | lXl | I eat the powder :\ |
| 11:04.24 | starlon | then wash it down with booze :) |
| 11:04.42 | lXl | I have beer |
| 11:04.48 | starlon | :\ |
| 11:04.56 | lXl | : |
| 11:05.00 | lXl | :\ |
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| 14:57.11 | ZorbaTHut | kreiri, it uses ipairs |
| 14:57.37 | ZorbaTHut | snstr, you could monitor all of groupXX and increment/decrement when they show up. really I just need a better group API though |
| 14:57.48 | kreiri | It's possible to register two handlers with same addon id and handler id |
| 14:58.02 | kreiri | or three, etc |
| 14:58.21 | ZorbaTHut | yep, I'm fine with that. it's meant as a convenient tool, it's not absolutely required that they be different |
| 14:58.37 | kreiri | this makes unregistering a problem |
| 14:59.22 | ZorbaTHut | true. the real answer there is, if you want to unregister, don't do that |
| 15:00.18 | ZorbaTHut | there's an unresolved issue if you want to unregister someone else's addon hooks, and they're doing that. I admit I don't have a great solution for that - that's when you need to dive into crazy heuristics :) |
| 15:12.30 | kreiri | I _have_ to unregister. I store my data as global svar, with char-specific data at "char@shard" key. This means that I have to obtain player details when user enters world or reloads UI, and the only event which guarantees consistent returns of Inspect.Unit.Detail("player") is Event.Unit.Available. If called in Event.Addon.SavedVariables.Load.End after logging in, Inspect.Unit.Detail("player") returns table with name field only, and if called in Event. |
| 15:13.09 | kreiri | So my solution is to register for event.unit.available, check if it's player, grab data and unregister. |
| 15:13.56 | jnwhiteh | but that's not a problem, his suggestions was only if you need to unregister, only have a single handler with the same addon id and handler id |
| 15:14.04 | jnwhiteh | or am I missing something? |
| 15:14.26 | kreiri | Well. I read "if you want to unregister, don't do that" as "if you want to unregister, don't unregister". |
| 15:14.39 | jnwhiteh | no |
| 15:14.50 | jnwhiteh | it was "if you want to unregister, then don't register multiple handlers iwht the same addon/handler id" |
| 15:15.06 | jnwhiteh | afaik, that's what makes sense! |
| 15:15.11 | jnwhiteh | ZorbaTHut: can likely clarify |
| 15:16.00 | kreiri | I'm also making a small helper library, and I'd want to cover the case of doppelganger handlers. |
| 15:16.27 | jnwhiteh | but you can't really, that's the problem |
| 15:16.34 | jnwhiteh | you can multiple handlers yourself, I'd assume |
| 15:16.38 | jnwhiteh | and avoid the issue |
| 15:23.53 | ZorbaTHut | yes, what jnwhiteh said :) |
| 15:23.57 | ZorbaTHut | unregistering is 100% A-OK |
| 15:24.06 | ZorbaTHut | if you need to do so, use an identifier that you can recognize |
| 15:24.26 | ZorbaTHut | in fact unregistering other addons' event hooks is intentionally allowed by the framework as well (though, y'know, be careful) |
| 15:30.16 | kreiri | something like: while (true) do k = findHandlerIndex(handlerId, addonId) if (k) then removeHandler(eventTable, k) else break end. Would iterate (m + 1) times over table for m doppelgangers. |
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| 18:56.33 | Kreiri | what's the point of "Gift of Stat" of Yule trees? |
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| 20:28.12 | seebs | Anyone happen to remember which of the Trion office locations is rift? |
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| 20:48.05 | seebs | nooooo my lovely addons *weep* |
| 20:48.31 | seebs | And I even had a Thing I Wanted To Do. |
| 21:01.33 | Torhal|work | o.O |
| 21:10.47 | *** join/#riftuidev Dramiel (~Adium@134.140.broadband5.iol.cz) |
| 21:16.07 | Kreiri | Does anyone know what to do with "Lump of Coal"? |
| 21:16.25 | Kreiri | got some from yule tree gifts, and cannot find anywhere to use them |
| 21:26.05 | seebs | Use them in a furnace to smelt cobblestone back into regular stone. |
| 21:27.28 | Torhal|work | seebs: Wow, nice troll. |
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| 22:08.17 | *** join/#riftuidev Marru_Laptop (~IceChat77@c-75-70-203-138.hsd1.co.comcast.net) |
| 22:08.29 | Marru_Laptop | uhh hi guys, ive been out for a while with finals... |
| 22:08.36 | Marru_Laptop | whats up with addons? why is my addons button disabled? |
| 22:09.42 | seebs | Bug was causing crashes. |
| 22:09.45 | seebs | It's probably your fault. |
| 22:09.51 | Marru_Laptop | lol |
| 22:10.19 | Marru_Laptop | are addons up on pts? |
| 22:16.32 | Snarty | yeah |
| 22:16.52 | Marru_Laptop | lol yeah i found that out myself |
| 22:16.54 | Snarty | I've had to migrate there for now, I think it's Zorba's sneaky way to get us back to coding on PTS for a day |
| 22:17.02 | Marru_Laptop | lol |
| 22:17.07 | Snarty | xD |
| 22:17.18 | Marru_Laptop | did u mention the summoned pets to him |
| 22:17.44 | Snarty | pretty sure he's aware of it yeah |
| 22:17.53 | Marru_Laptop | kk |
| 22:18.32 | Snarty | new version of the lib will be out soonish, but when it is out, summoned pets working it not, they'll just start working regardless. |
| 22:19.00 | Snarty | like, when it's finally patched the lib will fire events for them |
| 22:19.07 | Marru_Laptop | sweet |
| 22:19.12 | Marru_Laptop | good to hear |
| 22:19.40 | Marru_Laptop | sooo |
| 22:19.42 | Marru_Laptop | snarty |
| 22:19.47 | Marru_Laptop | your good at making libs lol |
| 22:20.03 | Marru_Laptop | if i wanted to have a lib create a frame |
| 22:20.44 | Marru_Laptop | how would i make it so it would make a new frame each time? use local variables for the frame and return it right? |
| 22:21.22 | seebs | I am not sure I'm understanding the question. |
| 22:22.12 | Marru_Laptop | what i want is a lib that can do a bunch of stuff to help make menu creation easier |
| 22:22.20 | Marru_Laptop | step 1 |
| 22:22.23 | Marru_Laptop | create menus |
| 22:22.24 | seebs | function foo(type, name, parent) return UI:CreateFrame(type, name, parent) end |
| 22:22.30 | seebs | ^-- creates a new frame every time it's called. |
| 22:22.36 | Marru_Laptop | ok |
| 22:22.51 | Marru_Laptop | works for me |
| 22:22.58 | Marru_Laptop | but would locals do it to? |
| 22:23.16 | Marru_Laptop | like i wanna create a frame, set basic settings, then return it |
| 22:23.27 | Snarty | I have some odd code in my boss mod that re-uses any frames, except for sliders since it crashed Rift all the time |
| 22:23.29 | seebs | I am pretty sure there is some fundamental misunderstanding here. |
| 22:23.46 | Marru_Laptop | yeah probably |
| 22:23.50 | seebs | Localness has nothing to do with it, so far as I can tell. |
| 22:24.01 | seebs | If you call createframe, get a value, and then return that value, it is a newly created frame. |
| 22:24.01 | Marru_Laptop | but if its not local |
| 22:24.21 | Snarty | all variables are references |
| 22:24.22 | Marru_Laptop | even if you call it a second time its not gonna modify the first one? |
| 22:24.47 | Marru_Laptop | nvm |
| 22:24.49 | seebs | If you do "x = UI.CreateFrame(...)", then x is a newly created frame. Doesn't matter whether it used to point to a different frame, or never had a value before. |
| 22:24.50 | Marru_Laptop | think i understand now |
| 22:25.01 | Marru_Laptop | ok |
| 22:25.22 | Torhal|work | Using local variables (especially if they're actually named "x") is preferable though. |
| 22:25.24 | Marru_Laptop | so, how would i let a user call a function on a frame they created |
| 22:25.46 | Torhal|work | o.O |
| 22:25.52 | Marru_Laptop | lol |
| 22:25.56 | Torhal|work | Define that, please... |
| 22:25.57 | Torhal|work | Heh |
| 22:26.03 | Snarty | and x can then be called anything, and referenced by any addon provided it equals what UI.CreateFrame returned |
| 22:26.05 | seebs | You don't *let* them do anything. |
| 22:26.09 | Marru_Laptop | i know |
| 22:26.12 | Marru_Laptop | i meant authors |
| 22:26.12 | seebs | They can call anything they want on anything they have access to. |
| 22:26.23 | Marru_Laptop | ok |
| 22:26.43 | Marru_Laptop | so if i have local frame in my lib |
| 22:27.06 | Marru_Laptop | and make functions that do things to frame |
| 22:27.30 | Marru_Laptop | ok im gonna explain this in a far simpler way |
| 22:27.44 | Marru_Laptop | what i want from my lib at least to learn how to do the rest of it |
| 22:28.28 | Snarty | functions are just another reference type within the frame you passes, if you passed x and later add x.blahfunction to it, blah function will be accessible by whatevertheycalledx.blahfunction |
| 22:28.55 | Marru_Laptop | is i want to let the author say "local menu1 = libMenu.CreateMenu(defaults1)" |
| 22:28.58 | Torhal|work | Though member functions are more clear as such when called methods. |
| 22:29.15 | Snarty | since there reference and your reference point to the same thing |
| 22:29.15 | Torhal|work | Marru_Laptop: Easy. |
| 22:29.23 | Snarty | their* |
| 22:29.44 | Marru_Laptop | then i want the user to do menu1:Place(defaults) or something and place it at a position specified by defaults |
| 22:29.57 | Marru_Laptop | or menu1.Place would work too |
| 22:30.08 | Torhal|work | Marru_Laptop: Here: |
| 22:30.20 | Torhal|work | my_frame = UI:CreateFrame() |
| 22:30.40 | Torhal|work | function my_frame:DoStuffToMe() end |
| 22:30.52 | Torhal|work | Though at that point you'd want a mete table to have frame prototypes |
| 22:30.57 | Torhal|work | meta* |
| 22:30.59 | Torhal|work | metatable* |
| 22:31.03 | Torhal|work | FUCK YOU autocorrect |
| 22:31.07 | Marru_Laptop | metatable for frame prototypes? huh? |
| 22:31.50 | Torhal|work | Marru_Laptop: local frame_prototype = {} |
| 22:32.07 | Torhal|work | local frame_meta = { __index = frame_prototype } |
| 22:32.44 | Torhal|work | my_frame = setmetatable(UI:CreateFrame(), frame_meta) |
| 22:33.06 | Marru_Laptop | whats that do? |
| 22:33.12 | Torhal|work | Then you can do things like: function frame_prototype:Explode() end |
| 22:33.24 | seebs | wahhh |
| 22:33.28 | seebs | my bags are disorganized. |
| 22:33.29 | Torhal|work | And every frame created via that method will inherit the frame_prototype functions |
| 22:33.32 | seebs | AND I CANNOT DO ANYTHING ABOUT IT. |
| 22:33.32 | Marru_Laptop | also, ive seen that a lot but never understood, but what is _index |
| 22:33.48 | Torhal|work | !api setmetatable |
| 22:33.49 | lua_bot | Documentation for 'setmetatable' can be found at http://www.lua.org/manual/5.1/manual.html#pdf-setmetatable |
| 22:33.49 | seebs | _index is an object to search for things if they aren't found in this object. |
| 22:34.16 | Snarty | can't you also then do if type(myframe) == "myui_frame" type stuff? |
| 22:34.26 | Torhal|work | So my_frame can have its own methods, while also inheriting those of the frame_prototype |
| 22:34.29 | Snarty | or whatever it's called |
| 22:34.55 | Torhal|work | Snarty: Sure, if you want to do a bunch of checks for pseudo-types instead of just saying "My frame is one of these." |
| 22:35.03 | Torhal|work | And having it BEHAVE as "one of those" |
| 22:35.09 | Marru_Laptop | i was just gonna use tables to create default settings tables |
| 22:35.28 | Snarty | or will it still return it as a table (since technically it is) |
| 22:35.32 | Snarty | ahh ok |
| 22:35.59 | Torhal|work | Snarty: It's still a table/frame, but its metatable ensures that any fields not found on it are references by the prototype's methods (passing YOUR frame as self) |
| 22:36.25 | Snarty | ahh, I should probably start doing that at some point xD |
| 22:36.37 | Marru_Laptop | so like the author could make default1 be a centered window of riftwindow type and default2 would be centered halfsize etc |
| 22:36.42 | Torhal|work | Much cleaner than runtime type-checking in a typeless language |
| 22:40.03 | Marru_Laptop | so whats the benefit of using metatables instead? |
| 22:40.47 | Snarty | saves duplicating methods in similar objects |
| 22:40.59 | Marru_Laptop | hmm |
| 22:41.14 | Marru_Laptop | i can't think of that many similar objects? |
| 22:41.28 | Snarty | like rift frames having base methods |
| 22:42.04 | Snarty | element > frame > riftbutton (or whatever it is) |
| 22:42.25 | Marru_Laptop | well i mean, yeah if i was reproducing the whole rift API frame functions... |
| 22:42.50 | Snarty | riftbutton has access to everything it's inherited from (so elements and frames in that not strictly accuracte example) |
| 22:43.02 | Marru_Laptop | lol |
| 22:43.46 | Marru_Laptop | i mean im not gonna recreate setpoint for everything... menu is gonna have some stuff, list is gonna have some stuff, listitems etc |
| 22:45.05 | Snarty | say you create several different "types" of tables with methods, but several methods cross-over, you could take all those out and put them in a base type then inherit that and add the differences. |
| 22:46.11 | Marru_Laptop | ok |
| 22:46.14 | Snarty | for me, the master of not designing anything past my head, stuff like that generally gets added later xD |
| 22:46.15 | Marru_Laptop | so that makes sense |
| 22:46.36 | Marru_Laptop | so the stuff torhal told me |
| 22:46.47 | Marru_Laptop | about how to set it up |
| 22:47.00 | Marru_Laptop | i still dont understand the _index thing |
| 22:47.18 | Torhal|work | When you attemptt to use a field/member of a table, you're indexing it |
| 22:47.58 | Torhal|work | Setting the prototype as the meta's __index ensures that anything which has its metatable set to the meta will search for non-existent fields in the prototype |
| 22:51.59 | Marru_Laptop | ok |
| 22:52.31 | Marru_Laptop | so i took those 3 lines you gave me |
| 22:52.38 | Marru_Laptop | local frame_prototype = {} |
| 22:52.38 | Marru_Laptop | local frame_meta = {_index = frame_prototype} |
| 22:52.38 | Marru_Laptop | local my_frame = setmetatable(UI:CreateFrame(), frame_meta) |
| 22:53.38 | Torhal|work | Ok. |
| 22:53.41 | Marru_Laptop | now, i use frame_prototype:blah() for functions right? |
| 22:54.11 | Torhal|work | function frame_prototype:blah() do_stuff_here() end |
| 22:54.43 | Torhal|work | Instead of frame_prototype, I could have called it spinning_button_prototype |
| 22:54.50 | Marru_Laptop | right |
| 22:54.55 | Torhal|work | Then you'd create buttons which did normal stuff plus whatever spinning buttons did |
| 22:55.47 | Snarty | they better spin is all I'm saying |
| 22:55.51 | Torhal|work | Indeed |
| 22:57.06 | seebs | I need to get around to raising the plat for a guild vault to stash augments in. |
| 22:57.47 | Marru_Laptop | and so within that frame_prototype:blah() do i hate them pass the frame to it or what frame do i call stuff on? |
| 22:57.57 | seebs | :foo() means you use self |
| 22:58.05 | seebs | Okay, are you familiar with the term "syntactic sugar"? |
| 22:58.05 | Marru_Laptop | ahh |
| 22:58.10 | Marru_Laptop | no |
| 22:58.23 | seebs | Syntactic sugar is when you're given a shorthand for writing something, but it's not really different. |
| 22:58.31 | seebs | function foo.y(self, ...) ... end |
| 22:58.31 | seebs | and |
| 22:58.38 | seebs | function foo:y(...) ... end |
| 22:58.41 | seebs | are exactly identical. |
| 22:58.44 | Marru_Laptop | kk |
| 22:58.47 | seebs | Similarly, if you have an object x: |
| 22:58.51 | seebs | x.y(x, ...) |
| 22:58.51 | seebs | and |
| 22:58.54 | seebs | x:y(...) |
| 22:58.55 | seebs | are identical. |
| 22:59.10 | seebs | x:y() basically means "call the method y with x passed in as a first parameter" |
| 22:59.16 | Torhal|work | Marru_Laptop: At that point your frame is a normal frame PLUS whatever the frame_prototype is |
| 22:59.29 | seebs | and as a definition, "x:y()" means "take the first parameter, call it self, and hide it". |
| 22:59.29 | Torhal|work | So you can call my_frame:blah() |
| 22:59.31 | Kreiri | is there a slash command to add a waypoint? |
| 22:59.43 | Torhal|work | Since my_frame has no blah member, it looks for it on frame_prototype |
| 23:00.13 | Marru_Laptop | gotcha |
| 23:00.16 | Marru_Laptop | makin sense now |
| 23:00.18 | Torhal|work | my_frame is used as "self" at that point. |
| 23:00.49 | Torhal|work | So you can create a bunch of different types of frames this way, all with their own behaviors, and then create many of each of them. |
| 23:01.10 | Marru_Laptop | awesome |
| 23:04.01 | Marru_Laptop | ok, so the line |
| 23:04.06 | Marru_Laptop | local my_frame = setmetatable(UI:CreateFrame(), frame_meta) |
| 23:04.22 | Marru_Laptop | is that gonna be in the functions that create the frames? |
| 23:04.42 | Torhal|work | Well, you'd ideally do this: |
| 23:05.09 | Torhal|work | rename frame_meta and frame_prototype to my_type_of_frame_prototype/meta |
| 23:05.37 | Marru_Laptop | so id have that for every frame type? |
| 23:05.55 | Torhal|work | Then make a function like lib.CreateMyTypeOfFrame() which does: return setmetatable(UI:CreateFrame(), my_type_of_frame_meta) end |
| 23:06.32 | Torhal|work | sparkly_frame_meta, spinning_button_meta, etc |
| 23:06.36 | Torhal|work | And their pro to counterparts |
| 23:06.40 | Torhal|work | proto |
| 23:06.46 | Marru_Laptop | ok |
| 23:07.05 | Marru_Laptop | and why do you say ideally? |
| 23:07.29 | Torhal|work | Because making your lib's users deal with setmetatable() and knowing about the meta and prototype at all isn't good design |
| 23:07.40 | Torhal|work | You give them an interface to your implementation. |
| 23:08.01 | Marru_Laptop | ok |
| 23:08.17 | Torhal|work | All the user should care about is making UnicornShapedFrames, not have to know magic to do so. |
| 23:08.39 | Marru_Laptop | right |
| 23:10.11 | Snarty | and obviously you'd have UnicornShapedFrame be a base for RainbowPukingUnicornShapedFrame *nod |
| 23:10.22 | Marru_Laptop | of course |
| 23:12.05 | Marru_Laptop | ok |
| 23:12.47 | Marru_Laptop | sorry, kinda high which is making me determined to do this but need to know what im doing b4 i do it lol |
| 23:13.02 | Marru_Laptop | so, the createtypeofframe thing |
| 23:14.19 | Marru_Laptop | if i did createmenu(frameType) |
| 23:15.04 | Marru_Laptop | and did if frameType == "Text" then meta = text.meta |
| 23:15.47 | Marru_Laptop | and ended with return setmetatable(UI:CreateFrame(), meta) |
| 23:16.00 | Marru_Laptop | would that work? |
| 23:17.07 | Torhal|work | why text.meta? |
| 23:17.27 | Torhal|work | Nevermind. |
| 23:17.31 | Torhal|work | I don't want to know |
| 23:17.32 | Torhal|work | Hehe |
| 23:17.33 | Torhal|work | But yah |
| 23:17.54 | Marru_Laptop | like your my.type.of.frame.meta |
| 23:18.02 | Marru_Laptop | or i meant _ not . |
| 23:18.06 | Torhal|work | Ah, ok |
| 23:18.09 | Marru_Laptop | so text_meta |
| 23:18.15 | Torhal|work | Aye |
| 23:19.08 | Marru_Laptop | kk |
| 23:19.22 | Marru_Laptop | any reason you do text_meta instead of textMeta? |
| 23:19.26 | Marru_Laptop | or somethin |
| 23:20.15 | Torhal|work | Because that's how I name things that aren't functions. |
| 23:20.21 | Marru_Laptop | gotcha |
| 23:21.13 | Torhal|work | namingVariablesLikeThisAnnoysme (especially since the only way you differentiate between a variable and a function at that point is the leading lowercase letter) |
| 23:21.54 | Marru_Laptop | or you could name functions with _ |
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| 23:22.25 | Torhal|work | Could, but they aren't used as much as variables in most places. |
| 23:22.36 | Marru_Laptop | fair enough |
| 23:22.38 | Torhal|work | IWouldNotWantAllOfMyCodeLookingLikeThis |
| 23:22.45 | Marru_Laptop | lol |
| 23:23.01 | Torhal|work | this_is_a_variable = ResultOfFunction() |
| 23:23.11 | Torhal|work | shrugs. |
| 23:23.31 | Torhal|work | I've seen people use Hungarian notation in Lua. |
| 23:23.44 | Marru_Laptop | hungarian notation? |
| 23:24.30 | Torhal|work | Like: tFoo for a table variable, sFoo for a string variable, nFoo for a numeric variable |
| 23:24.45 | Torhal|work | Really, though, if you give shit names which indicate what it's for, that nonsense is unnecessary |
| 23:24.47 | Marru_Laptop | oh, yeah |
| 23:24.59 | seebs | Side note: There are two competing kinds of hungarian. One of them is sorta reasonable. One of them is horrible. |
| 23:29.20 | Torhal|work | Meh. |
| 23:29.35 | Torhal|work | Properly-named variables win every time. |
| 23:29.54 | seebs | I agree. |
| 23:30.10 | seebs | But I can *live* with logical prefixes. I find the raw-type-name prefixes absolutely horrible. |
| 23:30.37 | Torhal|work | Logical prefixes are just a lazy way of proper naming |
| 23:30.39 | Torhal|work | :D |
| 23:30.52 | Torhal|work | szName versus size_name |
| 23:34.30 | Dramiel | wow you can't post on forums without subscription :/ |
| 23:35.59 | Dramiel | anyway, seebs: your api suggestion for rendering frames into texture feels kind of weird since IIRC frames still can't be deleted :p |
| 23:36.29 | Marru_Laptop | i still want a method to clear textures... |
| 23:37.00 | Torhal|work | Dramiel: Recycle |
| 23:37.04 | Torhal|work | ANywho, heading home. |
| 23:37.11 | seebs | ooh, point. hmm. |
| 23:37.35 | Dramiel | Torhal|work: why? so I can later remove that code once zorba implements deallocation? :p |
| 23:37.49 | Torhal|work | Dramiel: Yes. It's like 5 lines of code. |
| 23:37.54 | Dramiel | no it's not |
| 23:37.58 | Torhal|work | o.O |
| 23:38.07 | Torhal|work | Ok, 10 |
| 23:38.10 | Torhal|work | Two functions |
| 23:38.14 | Dramiel | you are forgeting that for proper recycling you must reset all properties |
| 23:38.15 | Torhal|work | One to acquire, one to release |
| 23:38.21 | Torhal|work | Bah |
| 23:38.34 | Torhal|work | You're going to set a bunch of stuff on texture anchors? |
| 23:38.43 | seebs | You know. |
| 23:38.52 | seebs | It would take all of like ten minutes to make a Frame Recycling Library. |
| 23:39.25 | Torhal|work | Not the best idea; not all frames (which are tables with C hooks) have the same data |
| 23:39.35 | Torhal|work | There are other reasons which I can't think of |
| 23:39.48 | seebs | The library would presumably track frame-by-type. Hmm. |
| 23:40.43 | seebs | Huh, I can't immediately see a way to guess, given a frame, what type it is. |
| 23:41.59 | Cairenn | O/T - aww crap! Anne McCaffrey died! :( |
| 23:42.05 | seebs | Oh no! |
| 23:42.21 | Dramiel | well go for it then.. but I still thing reseting all the properties may not be as simple as it sounds, especially for maintenance |
| 23:42.29 | Dramiel | prove me wrong :p |
| 23:43.21 | seebs | hmm, you have a point; I'd been ignoring the question of what a default state looks like. |
| 23:43.40 | Dramiel | also looking at api we have no way of changing owner of frame, so it would also have to recycle frames per addon per frame type |
| 23:43.42 | seebs | And thinking about it, that's not trivial. |
| 23:43.47 | seebs | ... yeah, and also per ui parent. |
| 23:43.49 | seebs | I think. |
| 23:43.59 | Dramiel | we can set parent frames |
| 23:44.18 | Dramiel | only doing that resets textfield content but that would actually help our cause :p |
| 23:44.43 | seebs | well, dayum. I *DO* appear to have asthma. |
| 23:45.57 | seebs | Or at least. I have otherwise-unexplained coughing fits which go away pretty quickly if I breathe albuterol. |
| 23:46.23 | Dramiel | maybe you have something new.. and the doctors call it "The Seebs" :p |
| 23:47.20 | Dramiel | it may not be the dream to have sickness named after yourself, but hey, better than nothing |
| 23:47.31 | Marru_Laptop | lol |
| 23:56.50 | Marru_Laptop | ok |
| 23:56.54 | Marru_Laptop | so |
| 23:58.41 | Marru_Laptop | if i make a function to create a window |
| 23:59.05 | Marru_Laptop | and i want in to return the window so the authors variable becomes that frame |
| 23:59.21 | Marru_Laptop | but it also needs to set it to the right metatable |
| 23:59.28 | Marru_Laptop | how do i do that? |
