| 00:05.52 | *** join/#riftuidev Orix_ (~Sam@S01060018e7e4b19b.vs.shawcable.net) |
| 00:21.23 | *** join/#riftuidev lXl (~Main@cpe-72-190-127-182.tx.res.rr.com) |
| 00:22.46 | lXl | New oil makes a car sound a bit better |
| 00:24.15 | Cairenn | Indeed |
| 00:50.57 | Lyme | hearing tapping? |
| 00:51.02 | lXl | Not anymore |
| 00:51.22 | Lyme | metal shavings in the oil or trans fluid? |
| 00:51.27 | lXl | Lifter tick |
| 00:51.37 | lXl | Miatas are really finicky on oil brand/weight |
| 00:52.08 | lXl | It's getting cooler here so I put in some fresh lower cold weight M1 and it seemed to really like that |
| 02:15.14 | lXl | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_8088 |
| 02:15.22 | lXl | Whoa wrong chat lol |
| 02:15.34 | lXl | Well you all get to see the first proc I used :\ |
| 02:29.29 | Sling | my first was a 286, im a newbie |
| 02:29.37 | lXl | lol |
| 02:29.44 | lXl | I was like, 2 years old. |
| 02:30.30 | Sling | after that a P1 133MHz with Windows 95 yey |
| 02:30.53 | lXl | I think my first windows box was on a 486 |
| 02:31.08 | lXl | Windows 3.11 |
| 02:31.13 | lXl | FOR WORKGROUPS |
| 02:31.24 | Sling | with the Microsoft Plus! cd, the amazement |
| 02:31.30 | Sling | all those different themes! |
| 02:32.48 | lXl | I can't listen to Weezer without thinking about Win 98 plus. |
| 03:00.22 | *** join/#riftuidev hp94 (4495e6ff@gateway/web/freenode/ip.68.149.230.255) |
| 03:13.38 | lXl | I'm going to experiment with waffles all night. |
| 03:13.51 | Sling | ... /me slowly backs away from lXl |
| 03:15.06 | lXl | http://iheartoldtowneorange.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/wafflebrg.jpg |
| 03:15.48 | lXl | Epic.. |
| 03:17.22 | Sling | thats just |
| 03:17.24 | Sling | awkward |
| 03:21.44 | Cairenn | ewwwww |
| 03:29.17 | TMc51 | I'd eat one. |
| 03:31.38 | *** join/#riftuidev Torhal (~torhal@c-50-130-0-209.hsd1.al.comcast.net) |
| 03:31.38 | *** mode/#riftuidev [+v Torhal] by ChanServ |
| 03:32.15 | *** join/#riftuidev hp94 (4495e6ff@gateway/web/freenode/ip.68.149.230.255) |
| 03:58.08 | hp94 | So.... |
| 03:58.11 | hp94 | How is everyone? |
| 04:03.16 | Cairenn | Doing okay, yourself? |
| 04:03.45 | Sling | waiting for the dawn to rise |
| 04:03.48 | Sling | busy day |
| 04:11.01 | lXl | https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-4bQ2Ubd9ADY/Tm2GL_osWMI/AAAAAAAAAEE/b4IfOvw3l90/s640/2011-09-11_23-09-13_529.jpg |
| 04:11.05 | lXl | Yeah, waffleburger |
| 04:12.16 | lXl | I'm opting for syrup |
| 04:14.01 | lXl | I'm going to order this next time I go to Ihop |
| 04:35.27 | hp94 | Personally, I want to order a pizza around midnight tonight. But I probably have to go to bed right away... College timeline tomorrow is 8 AM to 4~ PM =S |
| 04:36.08 | lXl | Pizza at midnight? |
| 04:36.18 | hp94 | I live in a big city |
| 04:36.37 | lXl | Canada right? |
| 04:36.40 | hp94 | Ya |
| 04:36.52 | lXl | You have big cities? |
| 04:36.58 | lXl | You mean like, a few thousand people or? |
| 04:37.00 | hp94 | Thousands and thousands of people |
| 04:37.06 | lXl | Lol |
| 04:37.08 | hp94 | skyscrapers, etc |
| 04:37.27 | Lyme | it's not like the usa has any big cities either, if you compare them to china |
| 04:37.54 | hp94 | http://www.google.ca/imgres?q=tokyo+pool&um=1&hl=en&sa=N&tbm=isch&tbnid=f9YQ-MxA8XtTFM:&imgrefurl=http://paradoxoff.com/tokyo-summerland-wave-pool.html&docid=FeA9Wcpq8NgTCM&w=500&h=375&ei=l4xtTvzfIcS5tgf16u3dBw&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=519&vpy=90&dur=82&hovh=194&hovw=259&tx=97&ty=75&page=1&tbnh=136&tbnw=194&start=0&ndsp=19&ved=1t:429,r:2,s:0&biw=1366&bih=567 |
| 04:38.12 | Cairenn | pokes lXl |
| 04:38.18 | lXl | Um, NYC is one of the largest cities. |
| 04:38.30 | lXl | USA does have some pretty big cities |
| 04:38.50 | lXl | Hi Cairenn :) |
| 04:38.54 | Cairenn | hi lXl |
| 04:39.06 | Cairenn | Don't make me poke you again - stop diss'ing Canada |
| 04:39.18 | lXl | One more? |
| 04:39.23 | Cairenn | no |
| 04:39.26 | lXl | :( |
| 04:39.40 | Cairenn | :p |
| 04:39.52 | lXl | Why you has to live in Canada with HP? It makes it hard picking on him. |
| 04:40.09 | Cairenn | I live in Canada. I do not live with HP. :p |
| 04:40.23 | Lyme | shanghai 14mil, mumbai 12.69 mil, istanbul 12.61mil, bejing 12.46mil, zhoukou 12.07 mil, nanyang 11.68 mil, karachi 11.62mil, baoding, 11.55mil, chengdu 11.4mil, delhi 10.93 mil |
| 04:40.23 | lXl | No, not live with HP in Canada, live in Canada with HP. |
| 04:40.34 | Lyme | nothing in the usa is even in the top ten |
| 04:41.22 | Lyme | the biggest city in north america is mexico city at #24 with 8.873mil |
| 04:41.30 | lXl | NYC is right behind that. |
| 04:41.39 | Torhal | drops Canada on lXl. |
| 04:41.40 | lXl | Census puts it at like 8m. |
| 04:41.45 | Torhal | Cairenn: ^ |
| 04:41.52 | Cairenn | lol |
| 04:42.10 | lXl | I could be sooooo mean with that one Torhal.. |
| 04:42.18 | Cairenn | Just as a reminder - you guys are weird. That is all. |
| 04:42.19 | Torhal | Urk |
| 04:42.30 | Lyme | new york is #32 |
| 04:42.30 | lXl | "Did a bird just poop on my head?" :P |
| 04:43.12 | lXl | Lyme there's a lot of large cities in the whole world, our major cities aren't ridicuously smaller than ones elsewhere. |
| 04:43.13 | Lyme | wolfram alpha is good for this kind of stuff |
| 04:43.38 | Lyme | you need to define big better |
| 04:44.43 | lXl | http://ask.reference.com/web?q=big better |
| 04:44.50 | lXl | Wow.. really reference.com? |
| 04:45.16 | Lyme | the first link it showed was in reference to african americans.. didn't know you were into that kind of thing. |
| 04:45.38 | lXl | Reference.com failed hard. |
| 04:46.04 | lXl | "BIG supports the Americans with Disabilities Act and complies with all requirements within more." What, you don't believe that is a good thing? |
| 04:47.11 | Lyme | besides, canada is a big place |
| 04:47.39 | Lyme | second largest country by landmass in the world. |
| 04:48.22 | lXl | Third if you believe penguins are capable of setting up a government. |
| 04:48.44 | Lyme | I'm not sure ice counts as landmass |
| 04:50.19 | lXl | Lyme why you take it so personal lol |
| 04:50.53 | Lyme | I'm not, I'm simply reviewing the facts intellectually. |
| 04:50.59 | lXl | Why? |
| 04:51.00 | hp94 | Ice counts as landmass. Tuscany counts are avenged. |
| 04:51.09 | Lyme | ok, you win |
| 04:51.14 | Lyme | feel better? |
| 04:51.59 | lXl | What? |
| 04:52.20 | lXl | I honestly have no idea what's going on now. |
| 04:52.31 | Cairenn | That makes 2 of us |
| 04:52.40 | lXl | But I'm wondering if we get midnight pizza here too. |
| 04:52.51 | Cairenn | Last I checked, we were having fun teasing each other and generally joking around |
| 04:52.56 | lXl | ^ |
| 04:53.21 | Lyme | (9:50:18 PM) lXl: Lyme why you take it so personal lol |
| 04:53.31 | Lyme | was getting butt hurt so I conceded |
| 04:53.42 | lXl | Whatever |
| 04:54.07 | Lyme | my paradise island has a population of 26 |
| 04:56.18 | Lyme | The tourists keep trashing my buildings though :( |
| 04:56.44 | lXl | Wait till spring break |
| 04:57.03 | Lyme | bastards trashed my hot dog stand |
| 04:57.14 | lXl | Maybe you should try hamburgers |
| 04:57.29 | Lyme | https://market.android.com/details?id=com.seventeenbullets.android.island |
| 04:57.35 | Lyme | no hamburger stand |
| 05:45.35 | starlon | o.O |
| 05:47.29 | hp94 | mmmk |
| 05:54.23 | Cairenn | Damnit, they're inspecting little bears' bums again! |
| 05:54.39 | lXl | ?????????????????????????????????????????????????? |
| 05:55.18 | Cairenn | You didn't hear that rant of mine? |
| 05:55.32 | lXl | Probably |
| 05:55.36 | lXl | What happened to bear bums? |
| 05:56.04 | Cairenn | The commercials for Charmin? |
| 05:56.09 | Cairenn | (toilet tissue) |
| 05:56.28 | lXl | Oh dear.. |
| 05:56.45 | Cairenn | "You can't pass inspection with little white pieces left behind" |
| 05:57.14 | Cairenn | You didn't hear me be all random about that? |
| 05:57.34 | lXl | sounds familiar |
| 05:57.40 | Cairenn | Thought so |
| 05:58.37 | Cairenn | Was pretty sure you had |
| 05:58.51 | lXl | Oh that little bear.. |
| 06:05.18 | *** join/#riftuidev Orix_ (~Sam@S01060018e7e4b19b.vs.shawcable.net) |
| 06:36.08 | lXl | C++ vs C# ? |
| 06:37.23 | seebs | What about them? |
| 06:37.28 | lXl | *vs* |
| 06:37.44 | lXl | My friend is trying to convince me to learn C# not C++ |
| 06:37.53 | seebs | C# may be a better language, but you're never gonna catch me betting on a Microsoft-controlled language/API. |
| 06:38.03 | lXl | That's how I feel. |
| 06:38.08 | seebs | Do you realize how many times MS has said "this is the language all future Windows code will be written in"? |
| 06:38.13 | Aurorus | Well, if you know C#, you also know Java (more or less) |
| 06:38.20 | seebs | Windows 3.11, OS/2, Win 32, other Win32, etc. |
| 06:38.21 | seebs | ... |
| 06:38.43 | Aurorus | C# and Java are quite similar synctactically |
| 06:39.04 | Aurorus | Given the two are the most popular languages in the enterprise by a long shot, they're not a bad bet |
| 06:39.24 | lXl | Will I come to a roadblock with either compared to the other? |
| 06:39.49 | Aurorus | What kind of roadblock do you mean? career wise? |
| 06:40.21 | lXl | Say if a project gets big enough. If either has more potential in any certain aspect. |
| 06:40.41 | Aurorus | C# is based on Microsoft, so C# is "All or nothing" Microsoft. Java is a bit more platform agnostic and "safer" from in that regard. |
| 06:41.13 | Aurorus | It really depends which way you want to go - if you want to work in a Microsoft shop that lives in a Microsoft ecosystem, you'll have no troubles with C# |
| 06:41.33 | seebs | At least until the next time they decide to replace it with something that's harder for other people to interoperate with. :P |
| 06:41.40 | Aurorus | hehe, yep, until then |
| 06:41.48 | lXl | I'd most likely use it for game application |
| 06:41.59 | Aurorus | Well, I don't think you'd beat C# / XNA then |
| 06:42.30 | seebs | Depends a bit on what you want to do. The Steam folks have something working which allows targeting Macs. |
| 06:42.32 | Aurorus | Given that XNA is the basis for the Xbox and that the Xbox is one of Microsofts billion dollar legs, I think you'd be somewhat safe with that bet |
| 06:42.35 | seebs | Which may or may not batter. |
| 06:42.46 | lXl | Not interested in xbox honestly. |
| 06:43.19 | Aurorus | yeah - so I guess our conclusion would be that you need to pick a platform and target it. You'll never be able to be "the jack of all trades." Need to pick something and master it. |
| 06:43.25 | Aurorus | Then, pick something else and master that. |
| 06:43.44 | seebs | Java is at least viable for games, though it's not my first choice language by any stretch of the imagination. |
| 06:43.58 | Aurorus | yeah, if you want games, leave Java alone :) |
| 06:44.09 | Aurorus | Java is for the boring enterprise apps :P |
| 06:44.11 | seebs | Maybe. Consider Minecraft. |
| 06:44.11 | lXl | I'm not trying to be jack of all trades I want to learn a new language that if I did stick with it I'd probably make desktop games. |
| 06:44.16 | Aurorus | (however, most profitable) |
| 06:44.19 | seebs | And consider how much of its success comes from the Mac and Linux users. |
| 06:44.26 | seebs | Network effects are HUGE in games. |
| 06:44.54 | seebs | The question isn't how many people will buy your game on Mac/Linux, it's how many people who know someone with a Mac or Linux machine will hear about your game... |
| 06:45.10 | Aurorus | Yeah, that's a good point |
| 06:45.42 | seebs | When we decided to get into an MMO, the choice was WoW. Nothing else was an option for the one Mac user involved. |
| 06:45.52 | seebs | That led to 5-10 accounts for a 5-year period. One Mac user. |
| 06:46.07 | lXl | I'll give Java games one thing, they have to work harder to get a good product out, and it pays off for that. |
| 06:46.08 | Aurorus | However, WoW didn't start on the Mac |
| 06:46.15 | seebs | Er, uh. |
| 06:46.23 | seebs | Every Blizzard game in years has been simultaneous release. |
| 06:46.28 | seebs | Like, since Warcraft I or before. |
| 06:46.41 | lXl | I thought it was SC or WC2 or something |
| 06:46.44 | seebs | WoW started out dual-platform from Day 1. Big part of their success. |
| 06:46.52 | lXl | Diablo 2 was dual. |
| 06:47.34 | seebs | Same thing happened when CoH got their stupid transgaming wrapper thing. It's a crappy port, but you just install the software and it runs, so it's Good Enough. |
| 06:47.54 | Aurorus | Hmmâ¦interesting, so it does. I've always thought WoW release on Macs was a bit delayed. Must be confusing it with Steam |
| 06:47.55 | seebs | Amusingly, the Mac port has a feature the PC port isn't getting until Issue 21 (which is Tuesday). |
| 06:48.06 | lXl | Everquest released a little late on Macs.. |
| 06:48.17 | seebs | Yeah. Steam only came out on Mac recently, but there's noticable benefits to the Mac-capable games. |
| 06:48.21 | lXl | Years late.. and never caught back up. |
| 06:49.00 | lXl | WoW for Mac usually does get features first because Macs usually don't have as good 3rd party tools as Windows. |
| 06:49.23 | lXl | I forget what they did in the past, but some of the in game implementations were because of Macs |
| 06:49.27 | seebs | Maybe. Having programmed both, I would take Mac any day. I'd get more done in less time with fewer bugs. |
| 06:49.39 | lXl | Windows 7 works alright. |
| 06:49.44 | Aurorus | thinks of Objective-C and cries a little |
| 06:49.55 | Aurorus | That was the most inane programming I've ever done |
| 06:49.58 | lXl | I can get as much done on my PC as I would on a mac. |
| 06:50.04 | seebs | If I had to pick either Objective-C or C++, it'd be Objective-C. |
| 06:50.22 | Aurorus | Yeah, but we're in the 21st century :P |
| 06:50.43 | seebs | True, but... Objective-C really is a pretty slick language as such go. If you're gonna bolt OO onto C, that's a pretty good way to do it. |
| 06:51.02 | Aurorus | It is slick, I'll give you that - however it's so utterly verbose |
| 06:51.20 | seebs | Eh, it has its issues there. :) |
| 06:51.23 | Aurorus | I feel like I'm writing a novel or a doctoral thesis to print "Hello World" :P |
| 06:51.49 | seebs | I feel like that about a lot of languages. I'd rather do GUI stuff in Objective-C with the Mac libraries than, say, Java. :P |
| 06:52.02 | seebs | Mostly I avoid GUIs when I can, they're intrinsically more annoying to me. |
| 06:52.05 | Aurorus | Come play on the Swings :D |
| 06:52.10 | seebs | Eww. |
| 06:52.25 | seebs | Bouy was actually a really neat idea -- an actually coherent GUI library for Java. |
| 06:52.34 | seebs | I think the guy's still maintaining it. |
| 06:53.29 | seebs | It let you do things like register a callback for an event you cared about, instead of implementing the entire interface of an elaborate interface spec in order to have sixty three billion stub functions and one real one. |
| 06:53.34 | seebs | Number may be slightly exaggerated. |
| 06:59.53 | Aurorus | ok, I'm off home |
| 07:01.52 | Cairenn | later Aurorus |
| 07:10.56 | ZorbaTHut | API design is tough, but it's even tougher when you're dealing with a language like java. instead of "how can I make it work easily" it's "how can I make it work in a less awful manner" |
| 07:11.10 | Cairenn | Heh |
| 07:21.20 | lXl | Hi Zorba <3 |
| 07:21.38 | lXl | What do you think about C++ and C#? :P |
| 07:22.18 | ZorbaTHut | In my line of work, C# doesn't have any advantages over C++. I think C# is a generally competently-designed language and I prefer it over Java, it's just not for me. |
| 07:22.46 | lXl | That makes sense. |
| 07:22.52 | ZorbaTHut | C++ is really a horrifying language in many ways, but it's also the only language on the planet that is uncompromising at doing what C++ does. There's a good reason it's used for games. |
| 07:23.07 | lXl | My friend is trying to convince me I should learn C# instead and I'm like :( |
| 07:23.39 | ZorbaTHut | Alright, odd question time, part one: do you drive a car? |
| 07:24.04 | lXl | IDK if you would call it driving but I get around. |
| 07:24.34 | ZorbaTHut | stick-shift or automatic? also, are you happy with your car's transmission, or would you try out the alternative or even switch given an opportunity? |
| 07:24.44 | lXl | F automatics. |
| 07:24.52 | ZorbaTHut | Learn C++. :P |
| 07:24.56 | lXl | :D |
| 07:25.16 | lXl | I'm planning on swapping my clutch out and prepairing it for a turbo later on, if that says anything. |
| 07:25.25 | lXl | Preparing the rest of the car that is. |
| 07:25.31 | ZorbaTHut | You'll probably be a lot happier knowing what's going on under the covers. C++ exposes all that, whether you want it or not. |
| 07:25.43 | lXl | That does sound more like what I want. |
| 07:25.51 | ZorbaTHut | If you're planning to go into games, there's basically four languages worth learning - C++, Lua, C#, and Actionscript |
| 07:26.14 | ZorbaTHut | I wouldn't wish Actionscript on my worst enemy, so don't start with that. C# has some nice libraries and support for things like XNA. But most gamedev happens in the C++ world, often with Lua scripting. |
| 07:26.17 | lXl | If I was just happy with only doing a tiny bit of work and having the language do the work for me, I wouldn't even bother learning anything more. |
| 07:26.18 | Sling | and buzz language |
| 07:26.24 | Sling | if you are in any marketing-related department |
| 07:26.43 | lXl | I really enjoy Lua. |
| 07:27.00 | ZorbaTHut | Me too, honestly. I do most of my personal gamedev in Lua |
| 07:33.34 | *** join/#riftuidev Kai`_ (u327@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-fzumpnqtezcxhmrh) |
| 07:35.25 | seebs | All good advice. |
| 07:35.38 | seebs | Note that ActionScript is eerily like JavaScript. I have been learning JS of late. |
| 07:36.05 | seebs | I have two books on JS. One is a language reference and it's about two and a half inches thick. The other is a book called "JavaScript: The Good Parts" and it's at most 3/4 of an inch thick. |
| 07:36.13 | seebs | This pretty much tells you what you need to know. |
| 07:36.17 | lXl | Haha |
| 07:36.31 | seebs | And yes, Lua is a beautiful language. |
| 07:37.01 | seebs | It's small, it has what it needs to have to be useful, and it doesn't try to be all things to all people. |
| 07:37.39 | seebs | Many people advise that you also learn Lisp, because if you don't know it, you are doomed to reinvent it poorly. This does indeed seem to be the case. |
| 07:37.46 | seebs | I don't know it and have reinvented it poorly at least twice. |
| 07:37.56 | lXl | What is Lisp? |
| 07:38.20 | seebs | It's... it's a language that was built around processing lists. Everything is ()s. LOTS of ()s. |
| 07:38.34 | seebs | And it's very simple, and insanely powerful. |
| 07:38.57 | seebs | It's also frequently Too Hard, and not especially susceptible to compiler optimizations. |
| 07:39.08 | seebs | Got used a fair bit in AI research. |
| 07:39.38 | seebs | The people who built the thing that eventually became the Yahoo store stuff did all their work in Lisp, and explain that this is why they ended up with millions of dollars and their competitors folded. |
| 07:40.05 | seebs | It's... A very *different* kind of language from something like C or C++. I keep planning to learn it and some day I will, but stuff keeps coming up. |
| 07:40.09 | lXl | So how would I be reinventing this? |
| 07:40.38 | seebs | Lisp has extremely powerful and flexible tools for dealing with lists. People tend to end up needing to do things like that, so they invent a way to do it. |
| 07:40.53 | seebs | Which is nearly always a weak subset of something you could do in Lisp, only less flexible and harder to maintain. |
| 07:40.54 | seebs | :) |
| 07:41.12 | seebs | FWIW, I can't even count the programming languages I can program in anymore. Probably at least a dozen. |
| 07:41.19 | seebs | So my view of languages is... different. |
| 07:41.54 | seebs | I use at least a half-dozen languages heavily in any given week. |
| 07:42.10 | seebs | Generally, PHP, Ruby, sh, C, GNU make, awk, perl, sed, Python. |
| 07:42.28 | seebs | If I get through a week without touching all of those, I must have been neglecting something I normally have to maintain. :) |
| 07:42.39 | seebs | ... Oh, and Lua, when there's a game I play with an addon API. |
| 07:43.12 | seebs | I gotta sleep, apparently I have work tomorrow and they're big on people actually showing up and doing their jobs. |
| 07:43.21 | lXl | Cya seebs |
| 07:43.32 | seebs | Crazy how draconian they are about this stuff. They're all like "do your job or eventually we'll totally stop paying you". |
| 07:50.06 | *** join/#riftuidev niftymonkey (4b46da89@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.70.218.137) |
| 07:50.13 | niftymonkey | howdy |
| 07:50.25 | starlon | sup pilgrim |
| 07:50.38 | niftymonkey | heh, anyone coding at this hour? |
| 07:50.57 | niftymonkey | just started getting my head around the addon stuff API |
| 07:51.05 | niftymonkey | addon API stuff, that is |
| 07:51.39 | starlon | only thing you need to know is that it'll all change before release :) |
| 07:52.15 | ZorbaTHut | hopefully not :) |
| 07:52.20 | starlon | :) |
| 07:53.38 | niftymonkey | well, just so I don't bang my head against this too long for no reason |
| 07:53.47 | niftymonkey | does anyone know if you can modify tooltips |
| 07:53.50 | niftymonkey | using the current API |
| 07:53.53 | ZorbaTHut | no tooltip modification yet |
| 07:54.21 | niftymonkey | how about writing to a file? |
| 07:54.36 | ZorbaTHut | aside from at shutdown, nope. that's a can of worms to set up properly. |
| 07:54.42 | niftymonkey | actually, there's a config thing ... can you write to that programmatically? |
| 07:55.23 | ZorbaTHut | not yet, there's still a lot of limits. there are savedvariables files that are written at shutdown and loaded at startup |
| 07:55.40 | starlon | 03:53 <@ZorbaTHut> no tooltip modification yet |
| 07:55.43 | niftymonkey | hehe, ok ... my first addon is out the window for now :-) |
| 07:55.45 | starlon | Are there plans? |
| 07:56.13 | ZorbaTHut | starlon, in the sense of me thinking "hey, that would be nice", yes. it's going to be surprisingly tough. |
| 07:56.29 | niftymonkey | actually, just so I don't kick it to the curb unnecessarily |
| 07:56.39 | niftymonkey | I wanted to do an "item count" mod |
| 07:56.43 | starlon | all I need is to hide the *PC tooltip. |
| 07:56.53 | niftymonkey | so I can see how many of an item I have across chars |
| 07:57.01 | ZorbaTHut | starlon, you'll probably see "hide standard frames" before you see tooltip hooks. |
| 07:57.08 | starlon | k |
| 07:57.20 | ZorbaTHut | nifty, no item support yet at all :) though once inventory support is added, you'll be able to use saved variables for that easily |
| 07:57.32 | starlon | I'm writing a replacement, so I don't have any interest in the original except to hide it. |
| 07:57.51 | ZorbaTHut | yeah, that's why the "hide" option will be showing up (not 1.5, note) |
| 07:58.00 | starlon | k |
| 08:01.46 | Torhal | ZorbaTHut: SVs don't flush at UI reload? Or is there such a thing in Rift? |
| 08:05.57 | ZorbaTHut | torhal, yeah, that too |
| 08:06.12 | ZorbaTHut | anything that reboots the addon environment, basically |
| 08:12.56 | niftymonkey | is there any kind of mouse-drag-to-move stuff on the frames yet? |
| 08:12.58 | starlon | How do you set up a git repo on riftui.com? I see svn but I'm not finding git. |
| 08:15.59 | Cairenn | Not set up yet, sorry starlon |
| 08:16.12 | Cairenn | Dolby's working on it, but it's not quite there yet |
| 08:16.15 | Cairenn | SVN for now |
| 08:17.46 | starlon | kk |
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| 08:34.51 | starlon | Is Inspect.Unit.Detail("player") guaranteed to exist at file load? |
| 08:38.49 | ZorbaTHut | starlon, no |
| 08:39.06 | ZorbaTHut | nifty, the tools exist to implement it yourself, but there's no built-in support yet |
| 08:39.37 | starlon | bummer |
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| 08:59.25 | starlon | btw, Zorba, I ___really___ appreciate all the documentation. |
| 08:59.36 | starlon | I'm sure I speak for others. |
| 09:00.03 | ZorbaTHut | thanks :) I hate writing it, but I know it has to be done, especially without examples |
| 09:00.12 | ZorbaTHut | and it's easier to write documentation than examples, so, hey |
| 09:02.06 | Cairenn | hehehe |
| 09:02.27 | starlon | :) |
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| 09:46.31 | starlon | Zorba, are there any plans to spif up text frames similar to WoW fontstrings where you can provide markup for color, textures, etc..? |
| 09:47.05 | starlon | Or is it already fashioned this way? |
| 09:47.19 | ZorbaTHut | starlon, that's a tough question. giving basic text frames those features will actually be rather difficult |
| 09:47.28 | starlon | k |
| 09:48.09 | ZorbaTHut | we'll definitely have some kind of markup once the chat API shows up, and I agree that supporting that sort of thing in text would be great. But I don't really have a grasp on how they'll end up connected. |
| 09:48.24 | starlon | nods. |
| 09:48.29 | starlon | Fair enough. :) |
| 11:00.27 | starlon | Bleh what's a good way to trim a string of whitespace? gsub? |
| 11:00.39 | starlon | WoW has strtrim |
| 11:04.19 | starlon | figured something out. I was using %w instead of %s |
| 11:20.34 | ZorbaTHut | string.match is pretty dang powerful |
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| 12:54.25 | starlon | ZorbaTHut, when Inspect.Unit.Detail is called, does it have to generate the table, or is the table already available and is simply passed along? |
| 12:55.04 | starlon | cause the way I've got this designed right now, Inspect.Unit.Detail's being called for each tooltip cell. |
| 12:55.29 | ZorbaTHut | I sort of want that to be left undefined, but calling it excessively may be a bit slow |
| 12:55.56 | starlon | k |
| 13:00.24 | starlon | ZorbaTHut, why not provide LibUnitChange with Rift by default? |
| 13:02.47 | ZorbaTHut | actually we're probably going to be doing exactly that. right now it's just waiting on me figuring out where to put it. |
| 13:03.07 | starlon | kk |
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| 19:30.46 | starlon | text frames could use a horizontal justification feature |
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| 19:46.40 | starlon | http://imgur.com/ufdcQ |
| 19:47.01 | starlon | There's my solution for justification, but it's not right. |
| 19:50.48 | seebs | Nooooo. |
| 19:50.50 | seebs | We know how this ends. |
| 19:50.56 | seebs | We think "hmm, justification, good idea". |
| 19:51.10 | seebs | Then someone suggests that instead of just right/left, we support full justification. |
| 19:51.23 | seebs | Then someone points out that long words make it look crappy. |
| 19:51.23 | starlon | lol |
| 19:51.27 | lXl | What about 3/4 justification. |
| 19:51.36 | seebs | Then we start talking about hyphenation engines, and about avoiding widows. |
| 19:51.54 | seebs | Thirty years later we've developed a new programming language in which to write an engine for implementing typesetting description files. |
| 19:52.03 | seebs | And this is why you NEVER ask Don Knuth to implement a feature. |
| 19:52.18 | starlon | lols |
| 19:52.22 | seebs | And the thing is. |
| 19:52.28 | seebs | Really, this is pretty much exactly what happened. |
| 19:52.43 | seebs | There's an entire CLASS of programming languages which exist because Don Knuth was annoyed with typesetting tools. |
| 19:53.17 | starlon | So that's a no? |
| 19:53.19 | starlon | :) |
| 19:55.20 | starlon | looks sloppy |
| 19:56.22 | starlon | How would I go about adding a border? |
| 19:57.26 | lXl | frame1 = X,Y,background |
| 19:57.26 | lXl | frame2 = X-1,Y-1,foreground |
| 19:57.33 | lXl | :D |
| 19:57.36 | starlon | ah |
| 19:57.49 | lXl | There's probably a better way but that is *A* way. |
| 19:57.49 | starlon | hmm |
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| 21:41.00 | Torhal|work | re-implements seebs in LaTeX. |
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| 22:33.35 | Aurorus | Another way is single pixel frames |
| 22:33.40 | Aurorus | mornign also |
| 22:33.42 | Aurorus | morning* |
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| 22:35.19 | Cairenn | Hey Aurorus, how goes your morning? |
| 22:35.27 | Aurorus | Just got into work |
| 22:35.37 | Aurorus | So far have three "ASAP" emails |
| 22:35.45 | Cairenn | Heh |
| 22:35.46 | Sling | seebs: he did give us TeX though |
| 22:35.51 | Sling | which is nice |
| 22:35.54 | seebs | Ayup. |
| 22:38.01 | Aurorus | How goes your evening Cairenn ? |
| 22:38.41 | Cairenn | Pretty well. Just finished dinner, chilling with some brainlessness on the stupid-box |
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| 22:38.57 | Aurorus | :) |
| 22:39.27 | Cairenn | (aka, watching some SG:1 on the telly) |
| 22:41.14 | Aurorus | I gathered some TV was in order :) |
| 22:41.27 | Aurorus | I think I'll turbocharge my morning with some coffee |
| 22:41.50 | lXl | Don't forget to upgrade your exhaust first or you will have problems. |
| 22:41.50 | Aurorus | Good thing about working in a CBD is the ridiculous availability of gourmet cafe / coffee houses |
| 22:42.02 | Aurorus | lXl: Will do :) |
| 22:42.36 | Aurorus | None of this watered down instant coffee :P |
| 22:42.55 | lXl | Just eat the coffee beans straight |
| 22:43.05 | Aurorus | saves the effort, right? |
| 22:43.12 | lXl | Technically any water you add is watering it down. |
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| 22:44.22 | Aurorus | heh, epic fail IRC client |
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| 22:44.46 | Aurorus | â¦and again? |
| 22:44.58 | Aurorus | I think I'm going to leave it alone for a whileâ¦. |
| 22:45.21 | Cairenn | heh |
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| 23:44.52 | ZorbaTHut | starlon, if you want right justification, see how Zorba's Buff Bars does it |
| 23:45.27 | seebs | Justification is the sort of thing that makes a good library feature. Sure, we can all reimplement it, but why? :) |
| 23:45.59 | ZorbaTHut | it's not really "reimplementing" it, it's just saying "hey, take the text frame, pin the right side of it to the thing we want it justified to" |
| 23:46.07 | ZorbaTHut | it's describing it in a different way |
| 23:46.10 | seebs | ... Oh, that IS easy. |
| 23:46.18 | ZorbaTHut | yup. :) |
| 23:46.21 | seebs | I was thinking of the thing people usually do of calculating widths and such. |
| 23:46.39 | ZorbaTHut | the one thing it *doesn't* do well is multiline justification, and I might put that feature in for the sake of that. But for single-line it works great. |
| 23:48.48 | seebs | Yeah, multiline is where it's at. |
