| 02:05.57 | *** join/#riftuidev lXl-M (~lXl@70.87.253.252) |
| 02:06.10 | lXl-M | Hello |
| 02:15.43 | *** join/#riftuidev Kraps (~chatzilla@pool-71-169-44-124.pghkny.east.verizon.net) |
| 03:25.36 | *** join/#riftuidev MentalPower (~MPower@WoWUIDev/Norganna/Administrator/MentalPower) |
| 07:38.59 | *** join/#riftuidev hp94 (48d742db@gateway/web/freenode/ip.72.215.66.219) |
| 07:39.04 | hp94 | so |
| 07:39.08 | hp94 | defcons cool |
| 07:39.21 | hp94 | my cell phone hacked |
| 07:39.28 | hp94 | got my laptop hacked |
| 07:39.39 | hp94 | and hotel cards are getting ripped/demagnetized |
| 07:39.52 | hp94 | they hackin e'rybody out here |
| 07:40.19 | hp94 | and the internet wire is going down.... |
| 07:40.25 | hp94 | =( |
| 07:41.58 | lXl | That's why I made my wallet into a Faraday cage :) |
| 07:42.15 | lXl | Actually, I need to put more foil in it. |
| 07:42.24 | nohh | also why you dont bring a laptop to defcon... |
| 07:42.36 | lXl | Bring one but infect it |
| 07:42.37 | nohh | especially if you don't know what you're doing |
| 07:42.43 | lXl | Lulz them back |
| 07:42.56 | lXl | Or fill it with millions of random fake accounts |
| 07:43.17 | nohh | sounds like a good use of one's time |
| 07:43.24 | lXl | Trolling hackers? |
| 07:43.51 | nohh | trolling anyone |
| 07:44.00 | lXl | It is. |
| 07:44.24 | lXl | Speaking of, I haven't gotten flagged on the forums in a while. |
| 07:44.34 | lXl | I have some room to troll now. |
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| 09:39.22 | *** mode/#riftuidev [+v seebs] by ChanServ |
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| 11:47.14 | *** join/#riftuidev cellae (raine@wtfux.org) |
| 11:47.27 | cellae | are addons still disabled on pts? |
| 11:48.04 | cellae | jw if i should wait the 40 minutes on this download to start settin up my environment or if i should bother today :S |
| 13:01.13 | industrial | asdfsadfsadf |
| 13:01.18 | industrial | why doesnt lift load in the background |
| 13:01.22 | industrial | i still keep alt tabbing away |
| 13:01.29 | industrial | then returning to find it at the same % loaded |
| 13:01.30 | industrial | >_< |
| 13:01.52 | industrial | multi tasking computers ftw ? |
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| 19:24.16 | *** join/#riftuidev Myrroddin (6034618e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.96.52.97.142) |
| 19:25.28 | Myrroddin | hello people. what's new? |
| 19:34.46 | cellae | reactivated account when i noticed addon api released |
| 19:34.48 | cellae | install pts client |
| 19:34.50 | cellae | no addons |
| 19:34.51 | cellae | ;_; |
| 19:36.31 | *** part/#riftuidev Wonsu1 (~steven@cpe-76-178-231-78.maine.res.rr.com) |
| 19:41.48 | Myrroddin | cellae, addons are temporily disabled on the PTS, which Trion does after a content patch. they will be re-enabled soon |
| 19:42.40 | cellae | oh there is an eta? i skimmed the forum but the last post (7/26) seemed too long ago to be relevant |
| 19:42.44 | cellae | thanks |
| 19:43.22 | Myrroddin | i don't know the ETA, sorry. if it was like 1.3, it will be a week or two |
| 19:43.30 | Myrroddin | but that is just my guess |
| 19:45.29 | Myrroddin | considering live just go several UI tweaks, some of the big, i'm hoping the PTS will have some funky stuff when addons are re-enabled |
| 19:45.46 | Myrroddin | ZorbaTHut isn't talking, of course.... |
| 19:46.30 | cellae | did it? i feel like i missed a lot in a short period of time |
| 19:46.32 | cellae | i like that |
| 19:47.05 | Myrroddin | yeah, the patch notes for 1.4 were extensive |
| 19:47.33 | ZorbaTHut | Should be re-enabled soon, keep an eye out. And there will be some improvements to addons once they're back up. :) |
| 19:48.48 | cellae | ooooh |
| 19:48.57 | cellae | spoilers! give them :D |
| 19:49.17 | ZorbaTHut | Nope. :D |
| 19:49.22 | ZorbaTHut | But I think people will like the new features. |
| 19:49.53 | cellae | :3 thanks for the update |
| 19:50.17 | ZorbaTHut | and just fyi, the reason I'm hesitant to respond is because sometimes we find an issue at the last minute and have to pull a feature |
| 19:50.39 | ZorbaTHut | in fact, one of the things that *should* be in in the next PTS patch is something that *should* have been in literally a month ago. It's been quite a pain :P |
| 19:51.30 | cellae | all understandable, just doin your job |
| 19:52.37 | Myrroddin | BTW, Zorba, thank you for killing the need for LibStub. You did say you would have something built in, and I like your solution |
| 19:52.53 | ZorbaTHut | myrroddin, I'm hoping it does what is needed. I think it will :) |
| 19:53.17 | ZorbaTHut | libstub's "update" system was always somewhat horrifying |
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| 19:54.30 | Myrroddin | and if i may be so bold to ask: I assume you read my auction house suggestion post in the official forums. you probably read everybody's suggestions. any thoughts on what ideas users come up with that are major changes to something existing in the game already? |
| 19:55.04 | ZorbaTHut | major changes are tough to justify in a lot of ways. it's a lot of time spent, it's kind of risky, and users *hate* change |
| 19:55.37 | ZorbaTHut | it's something we're always considering and watching, but it has to beat out other changes that can make |
| 19:55.55 | Myrroddin | understood. in my suggestion, it was more of an "add information" rather than "change the system" but i see your point |
| 19:56.40 | ZorbaTHut | I'm actually trying to find it to remind myself of what it was, but can't :V got a link? |
| 19:56.47 | ZorbaTHut | (or just summarize it) |
| 19:57.19 | Myrroddin | sure, hang on. the short, while i find it, was turn the AH into a "real" AH, like eBay, or Christies ..... hang on |
| 19:58.51 | Myrroddin | http://forums.riftgame.com/alpha-addon-api-development/225565-suggestion-ah-api-when-you-get-there.html |
| 19:59.17 | Myrroddin | and yes, i know any working on the AH api is a long, long, long, LONG way off. i was just forward thinking |
| 20:02.14 | cellae | huh |
| 20:02.18 | ZorbaTHut | ah, yeah, I remember that now. I definitely like the idea of providing more information, though the ideal method of doing so is pretty nonobvious |
| 20:02.20 | cellae | a 'real' AH |
| 20:03.18 | ZorbaTHut | so, yeah, we definitely have elements like that in mind. Something I'll have to deal with in quite some detail once I get to the auction house :) |
| 20:03.23 | Myrroddin | plus it give a feather in Trion's cap to say "we aren't like everything else" which seems a positive goal you guys and gals are trying to achieve |
| 20:03.35 | cellae | sounds exploitable |
| 20:04.05 | Myrroddin | cellae, maybe. maybe not. depends on how it is implemented |
| 20:04.40 | Myrroddin | but the AH is going to be exploited no matter what. there will always be gold farmers and unscrupulous players |
| 20:04.56 | Myrroddin | nothing us regular players can do about them |
| 20:05.29 | Myrroddin | I'm amazed I busted out "unscrupulous" !! |
| 20:07.05 | cellae | 4 syllables! and you spelled it correctly |
| 20:07.07 | cellae | you get a cookie |
| 20:07.30 | Myrroddin | zorba, i was also thinking it would be nice to at least provide official APIs that did things like HandyNotes or GatherMate, rather than having to invent the APIs. doesn't mean you need to populate the map yourself. make third party addons do the populating |
| 20:08.55 | Myrroddin | that way players that want to see mine, herb, npc, etc nodes on the world map can, and the players that do not are also happy |
| 20:09.20 | ZorbaTHut | as neat as that is, it's time we can spend making other APIs ;) |
| 20:09.32 | Myrroddin | as you said, change for change's sake isn't necessarily good, but if it is in the backend, for addon authors to use, then all bases are covered |
| 20:10.25 | Myrroddin | don't worry. i'm patient. still want to get cracking on a UI addon, or unit frames. but i'll wait |
| 20:10.46 | cellae | oh Myrroddin, you are thinking lightyears ahead of most of the playerbase. most people are still getting over their pathological fear of addons |
| 20:11.11 | Myrroddin | and i need to fix BugCatcher. i don't have the PTS installed right now |
| 20:11.49 | Myrroddin | cellae, i have noticed. good word, that: pathological. and so true |
| 20:12.12 | cellae | skimming the forums made me really sad :/ |
| 20:12.43 | Myrroddin | just wish they would stay away from those of us who DO want addons. they don't want them, great. the game has an incredible amount of customization built in anyway |
| 20:13.16 | Myrroddin | cellae. um, sorry. i keep looking at LUI or RDX and wanting to get my hands dirty.... |
| 20:13.46 | cellae | from a dev point of view, it's almost cruel to release a game like this without implementing some sort of addon system |
| 20:16.12 | cellae | the default interface is perfectly adequate for most, but my hand-eye coordination needs a very specific setup :3 |
| 20:16.34 | Myrroddin | same |
| 20:17.47 | Myrroddin | I have another suggestion, ZorbaTHut, if I may: putting a viewport option into the base UI, with addon APIs of course. The amount of players that would use that to move the elements around would be crazy, i think |
| 20:18.27 | ZorbaTHut | as neat as that would be, it may prove *extremely* difficult to implement. It's a longer-term thing. |
| 20:19.15 | Myrroddin | i haven't looked how addons like CT_ViewPort and Sunn do it, but i can imagine |
| 20:19.37 | ZorbaTHut | it's not really how the addon does it, it's how the rendering code does it |
| 20:19.48 | ZorbaTHut | I don't know if our graphics rendering code would make that easy, nigh-impossible, or somewhere in between |
| 20:20.14 | Myrroddin | oh. egad. and ick. i had no idea, obviously |
| 20:21.24 | ZorbaTHut | But yeah, I'm aware that it's a desired feature. I'll probably look into it eventually :) |
| 20:21.32 | Myrroddin | do you prefer suggestions here, or on the forums, or in some PM format? what is the best way for you to take them in, add them to your mile-high stack of notes, and not lose track? |
| 20:24.34 | ZorbaTHut | to be honest, right now we're sort of just not taking suggestions :) in the moderate future I'll probably be opening a "small suggestion thread", for things like "hey, inspect.unit.detail shows X but not the very-similar Y, can you add Y to it also please" |
| 20:24.35 | cellae | put a sticky note on his forehead |
| 20:24.57 | ZorbaTHut | as the addon system gets fleshed out the small-suggestion-thread will turn into a medium-or-smaller-suggestion-thread and then just a suggestion thread |
| 20:25.28 | ZorbaTHut | that said, if you've got something really small that I just totally missed (which may have happened) then feel free to just tell me here |
| 20:26.31 | cellae | your eloquence and honesty give me cautious hope for the future |
| 20:26.40 | Myrroddin | i did think of a rare case where your toc version check for dependencies won't work as intented, but i can't think of it right now. probably should have written it down LOL |
| 20:26.53 | Myrroddin | *intended |
| 20:27.02 | ZorbaTHut | myrroddin, the TOC version comparison thing? Yeah, if you think of it again, let me know |
| 20:27.15 | ZorbaTHut | the only one I know of right now is "2.0.0 beta" will show up as being a later version than "2.0.0" |
| 20:27.22 | ZorbaTHut | and I'm not sure how much I care about that |
| 20:27.40 | ZorbaTHut | cellae, thanks :) for a lot of this, I'm looking at what I wanted when I was doing UI dev, and trying to do that |
| 20:27.49 | Myrroddin | i saw that. it was something else, but related. i'll try to remember it |
| 20:28.04 | ZorbaTHut | alright, cool |
| 20:28.12 | ZorbaTHut | fundamentally I don't think the version comparison can ever be 100% intuitive, but it can be close |
| 20:31.43 | Myrroddin | to solve your "2.0.0 beta" vs "2.0.0" issue, could could add an optional minor flag, the way LibStub does it. would that work? "2.0.0 beta" is the major, but then have "minor 5" which is > kind of thing. or Version = "2.0.0 beta, 5" in the toc. Notice the comma? |
| 20:32.54 | Myrroddin | no, that won't work. you are stripping out the .'s and other bits... never mind |
| 20:34.45 | ZorbaTHut | I also want to keep things as simple as possible ;) |
| 20:36.39 | ZorbaTHut | the fix I thought of is that strings would be considered earlier than nothing, so that "1.0 blah" < "1.0" < "1.0.1" |
| 20:36.50 | ZorbaTHut | but that's also sort of weird |
| 20:39.42 | Myrroddin | i was going to ask about the embed code. looking at the TrionDevTools example, is ["Libraries/Minimal/TinyLib"] meant to be "Addons/Libraries/etc" or "MyAddon/Libraries/etc"? in other words, do libraries have to be bundled within the addon folders, or is there support for the no lib strip feature Curse Client offers? |
| 20:45.10 | ZorbaTHut | embedding is always relative to the addon directory, so that would look in Addons/TrionDevTools/Libraries/Minimal/TinyLib |
| 20:45.42 | ZorbaTHut | if I recall correctly (I might have this wrong) the engine will silently ignore any failed embedding, so if that directory doesn't exist, it'll still work fine |
| 20:46.46 | ZorbaTHut | note that the no-lib-strip thing isn't as important in this case, since Rift will simply not load extra copies of the addons. Unless a library is *really big* I'd just include all your dependencies and not worry about it. |
| 20:48.36 | Myrroddin | still, if i understand this correctly, you have managed to make it easier to make libraries their own addons, as Rift will parse them, version check with what is embedded in addons, and load the latest version |
| 20:49.18 | ZorbaTHut | yep, quite correct. that's really intended for people saying things like "rargh, CommonLib 1.0.4 is terrible, I want to use CommonLib 1.0.5 but all of my addons are stuck with 1.0.4" |
| 20:49.25 | ZorbaTHut | just download commonlib and install it as a normal addon |
| 20:50.09 | ZorbaTHut | this is also a bit of a debugging feature, because if you have a lib installed as an addon, the info pane for that addon will tell you where it's being embedded from and what version :) |
| 20:50.32 | Myrroddin | darn you and making things better and easier, and working the way it should! darn you!!! .... .... ..... oh wait. ummmmmm |
| 20:51.06 | ZorbaTHut | I do my best :D |
| 20:51.58 | industrial | You probably get asked this a lot but is there any ETA on when addons will go live? Is it after the API is totally stable? I haven't been keeping tabs on it but it's still expanding? |
| 20:52.02 | industrial | Also, I have this issue with my bag windows, they keep displacing between logins. I can't keep them where they are (I'm OCD on pixel perfect placement like that). |
| 20:52.27 | ZorbaTHut | it'll definitely be before the API is 100% completed, but there's no ETA past that |
| 20:52.37 | industrial | ok |
| 20:52.57 | ZorbaTHut | obviously this also implies that the addon system will continue development after release |
| 20:53.10 | Myrroddin | i should hope so.... |
| 20:53.28 | Myrroddin | always something new and exciting with MMOs. new content means new APIs |
| 20:53.39 | Myrroddin | because there is always new mechanics |
| 20:53.46 | ZorbaTHut | quite true :) |
| 20:54.53 | Myrroddin | the only thing i have found to be incredibly frustrating in Rift has nothing to do with addons, the API, the UI, or even 99% of the game |
| 20:55.23 | Myrroddin | which, by comparison, I was frustrated with about 20% of WoW |
| 20:55.35 | ZorbaTHut | I must admit curiosity :) what is it? |
| 20:55.54 | industrial | it only loads on load screens with the app active :P |
| 20:56.07 | industrial | i frequently come back to a still at the same % loading screen from an alt-tab |
| 20:56.29 | ZorbaTHut | industrial, windowed or fullscreen? |
| 20:56.34 | industrial | fullscreen |
| 20:56.43 | ZorbaTHut | ah, yeah, I could believe that |
| 20:56.48 | ZorbaTHut | if you change it to "windowed fullscreen" that oughta fix it |
| 20:57.24 | ZorbaTHut | I think I've heard that complaint before though, we should probably just make it work right. |
| 20:58.15 | industrial | yea that fixed it thx |
| 20:58.28 | Myrroddin | zorba, it was the 1.3 world event. at least a couple of parts, not the whole thing. since i am leveling, and only level 33, that quest that sent me to the highlands to view the main event, plus whatever the quest told me to do was next to impossible, given the hostile territory you needed to pass through at that level |
| 20:58.56 | ZorbaTHut | ah, yeah, that's *really* tough to solve |
| 20:59.24 | Myrroddin | the only other thing was that random chest by the splash daily in stage 5. i got 4/5 pieces of the artifacts, and i sat there for hours and hours and hours and never saw the last piece |
| 20:59.33 | ZorbaTHut | let me guess, you're guardian? |
| 20:59.40 | Myrroddin | defiant |
| 20:59.54 | ZorbaTHut | oh hmm. I think you should've just tried other chests, each of the events had a chest :) |
| 21:00.23 | Myrroddin | i tried both chests, repeatedly :( i kept getting dozens and dozens of the other artifacts |
| 21:00.56 | ZorbaTHut | there were three sets of chests, I'm sorry to say |
| 21:00.58 | ZorbaTHut | one at the dancing daily |
| 21:01.09 | ZorbaTHut | one at the drinking game, one at the splashing game |
| 21:01.57 | ZorbaTHut | it's possible that should have been explained better, people don't seem to have gotten it. most people just hung out by the splashing game |
| 21:02.00 | Myrroddin | what? i never saw the others, or at least wasn't looking for them.... yeesh. i was in the wrong spot the whole time? well, curses!!! |
| 21:02.26 | ZorbaTHut | yep, that would've done it :) in general I think we try not to be horrible people with our game design, the item would've been blue if it was super-rare |
| 21:03.46 | Myrroddin | i don't mind, or object to rare on the RNG. i think the problem was the NPC that called out the chest was predominant by the splashing game. i went back and forth all over meridian for various reasons, but that was the only NPC i caught on that announced anything |
| 21:04.22 | ZorbaTHut | yeah, this may be totally wrong, but I think the chest had a chance to spawn every time the game reset |
| 21:04.27 | Myrroddin | so yes, i'm an unobservant lout, but the other NPCs could have been more vocal |
| 21:04.29 | ZorbaTHut | but the splashing game had a much, much faster reset rate than the others |
| 21:04.47 | ZorbaTHut | and actually the dance chest wasn't even a chance-to-spawn, you had to "win" the game |
| 21:05.24 | Myrroddin | win the game? it wasn't as simple as just /dance to the correct NPC? |
| 21:05.34 | Myrroddin | i so fail at reading quest text.... |
| 21:05.53 | ZorbaTHut | it was, almost - the trick is that you didn't *stop* dancing |
| 21:06.01 | ZorbaTHut | just waited for the little cutscene to play out |
| 21:06.14 | Myrroddin | d'oh! |
| 21:06.22 | ZorbaTHut | I think the hint there was that the quest text phrased it as a competition, and the dancers talked about beating you |
| 21:06.43 | Myrroddin | on the other hand, i discovered the easy way to do the drinking game in the time limit. so that is good |
| 21:07.31 | Myrroddin | <-------- unobservant lout. my excuse is i play a tank class. we don't need to learn to read! just hit things hard!! |
| 21:07.45 | ZorbaTHut | what was the easy way? I only did it twice, I already had the all the stuff I needed |
| 21:08.42 | Myrroddin | don't start the quest unless *all* the large steins were on the tables. don't drink the small cups unless there are no steins left, and go to the stein as soon as it spawns |
| 21:08.52 | ZorbaTHut | aha, yeah, I can see that making it easy |
| 21:08.55 | Myrroddin | the fastest i did that quest was 18 seconds |
| 21:09.02 | ZorbaTHut | you can also just let the drunkenness buff wear off, but obviously that takes a good chunk of time |
| 21:09.36 | Myrroddin | LOL on my last attempt, which was the fastest, i didn't even get that debuff. thought i would, for sure, but no belching fire for me |
| 21:10.45 | Myrroddin | but i made the usual mistakes for those quests at first. got hammered way past the time limit. splashed the wrong guys.... |
| 21:11.35 | Myrroddin | back when you had to splash 90 of them, i did that solo even though people were asking to group. that took forever.... |
| 21:12.11 | Myrroddin | tanks =/= read quest text!! or chat, for that matter LOL |
| 21:14.44 | ZorbaTHut | our quest designers have started to do neat things with quests, so hopefully you'll get trained out of that eventually :D |
| 21:17.45 | Myrroddin | i hope so. but as i said, i rather like what Trion has done with Rift. when i left WoW in 4.1, having played it since vanilla, it felt... neutered and boring. yes, even after cataclysm changed everything |
| 21:19.33 | Myrroddin | speaking of the quest designers, i enjoy not having to wade through the eyeless murloc clan, or killing bears for meat they don't have (and yet aren't undead bears) and that sort of thing |
| 21:20.19 | ZorbaTHut | my favorite example of that was a quest in Southshore with murloc heads |
| 21:20.27 | ZorbaTHut | I was always amazed at how many murlocs didn't have heads |
| 21:21.09 | industrial | Is there an ETA with /lfg ? |
| 21:21.27 | industrial | queue average / 5min |
| 21:21.39 | ZorbaTHut | I have absolutely no idea :D |
| 21:22.01 | industrial | would be handy to not sit at the screen for 45 mins :P |
| 21:22.27 | industrial | sick of leveling atm, just got my necro caster pet (L33) |
| 21:31.49 | Myrroddin | it would be nice if the LFG icon had an ETA like WoW, but i noticed that, even though it is an estimate, it was frequently wrong |
| 21:32.10 | Myrroddin | so maybe it is a good thing Rift doesn't offer a time |
| 21:40.35 | ZorbaTHut | it's really tough to get accurate estimates for those |
| 21:40.54 | ZorbaTHut | people have the mental image that LFG queues are literally queues, but in reality it's just sitting there waiting for another tank or healer to show up |
| 21:41.02 | ZorbaTHut | no real way we can predict how often a tank or healer will try to join LFG |
| 22:05.03 | Lyme | ZorbaTHut: could you ask someone to fix tab targeting? |
| 22:05.55 | ZorbaTHut | lyme, what's broken about it? |
| 22:07.11 | Lyme | While yes, it targets things, and cycles between them, it rarely targets what one would expect. It will target things that are far away and out of the view angle to the left (or right), sometimes behind walls, rather than targeting what is directly infront of you first.. and it pays no attention to what is closest (many times) |
| 22:10.26 | Lyme | I should make a post on the forums about it, unfortunatly there will probably be a lot more noise than signal. |
| 22:17.34 | ZorbaTHut | we've actually redesigned that system a few times. it's kind of unclear how it "should" work, everyone wants it to do something different |
| 22:19.51 | Lyme | Ahh.. I need a diagram |
| 22:22.48 | Lyme | hmm, can't find one. Ok, so you draw a pie shape on a piece of paper, which represents the viewing angle of a character. (the character views from the point of the pie). |
| 22:23.31 | Lyme | Then you draw a line down the middle of the pie splitting it into equal sides (mirror shapes). |
| 22:23.59 | Lyme | Then two more lines splitting the sides in the same way (from the viewer outwards). |
| 22:24.28 | Lyme | Then a arbitrary number of arcs, starting at the viewer and moving outward. |
| 22:26.14 | Lyme | IMO, the targeting should start at the closest target to the viewer, and closest to the center. Then move to the first left section, then right, by distance from the centerline. But it has to be done section by section, rather than going all the way left and then going right. Then you move to the next outward section and repeat. |
| 22:27.03 | Lyme | Does that make sense? |
| 22:50.53 | *** join/#riftuidev Aurorus (~Aurorus@unaffiliated/aurorus) |
| 23:02.46 | ZorbaTHut | lyme, yeah, it does |
| 23:02.55 | ZorbaTHut | though it's tricky to figure out what happens when characters move around |
| 23:07.58 | ZorbaTHut | like, do you reset the ordering - making it nearly impossible to tab-target through things - or do you preserve it, meaning that the tab order may end up bizarre in short order? |
| 23:09.49 | Lyme | I'd suggest resetting |
| 23:13.19 | ZorbaTHut | we've had complaints that the tab-target order resets too often, which makes it near-impossible to tab-target in motion-heavy fights |
| 23:17.27 | Aurorus | One thing to consider is having a system where tab targetting selects the nearest target to the centre of the screen (Ray-trace from Camera) and then work outwards. |
| 23:17.57 | Aurorus | At the moment, if you move your camera (e.g. 90 degrees), it'll still work its way through the targets near the side |
| 23:22.51 | ZorbaTHut | yeah, but that's also tricky, because then you move the camera and your tab ordering changes :V |
| 23:23.25 | Aurorus | Yeah, that is tricky |
| 23:23.49 | Aurorus | Rift should just know what people want to target and do it :P |
| 23:23.56 | ZorbaTHut | I'm half thinking about hacking up some system via which addons can control tab targeting, though in a very restricted sandbox environment to prevent anything automatey or exploity |
| 23:24.30 | cellae | oooh |
| 23:24.32 | Aurorus | What about giving a list (array) to an addon that can then re-order it and send the list back? |
| 23:24.42 | Aurorus | e.g. a glorified sort function |
| 23:25.17 | ZorbaTHut | because the addon can re-order it in a way that would permit the addon to choose the player's target |
| 23:25.21 | ZorbaTHut | it's also unclear when we should be sending that list |
| 23:26.04 | Aurorus | yeah, true |
| 23:26.07 | ZorbaTHut | finally, in order to do tab targeting correctly, you need information like current position, creature position, and camera angle, and these are things I hesitate to provide to the main addon environment |
| 23:26.23 | Aurorus | why is that, if I may ask? |
| 23:26.26 | ZorbaTHut | in reality, what I'd do is a completely-locked-down environment with no communication to the outside world, and send in bare information about entities |
| 23:27.00 | ZorbaTHut | a lot of those permit for a significant amount of automation. I had an addon in WoW that would place all the characters on a top-down map and automatically show the exact range of things like player-focused AoE friendly fire effects |
| 23:27.24 | ZorbaTHut | then there's AVR, which - while totally awesome - does tend to give designers conniptions :) |
| 23:27.25 | Aurorus | Ahh yeah, I see |
| 23:27.43 | Aurorus | AVR? |
| 23:27.54 | ZorbaTHut | http://www.wowace.com/addons/avr/ |
| 23:28.11 | ZorbaTHut | http://www.wowace.com/addons/avr/images/1-example/ for an example, it effectively let people draw in 3d space |
| 23:28.35 | Aurorus | Ahh, nice |
| 23:28.46 | Aurorus | You're doing all you can not to let that happen? :P |
| 23:28.48 | ZorbaTHut | yeah, a marvelous bit of design and coding |
| 23:28.55 | ZorbaTHut | but not something we want people to do :) |
| 23:29.22 | Aurorus | fair enough |
| 23:31.15 | Aurorus | If you would give your Overview / Big Picture Opinion, what would you say would be the core of the purpose for AddOns? |
| 23:32.57 | ZorbaTHut | Hmmm. That's a good question, and I should *probably* just be deferring to our PR department. But - and note that this is not an official Trion response, this is just Zorba's response - my personal goal is to allow people to customize the game's interface to the maximum extent possible that still preserves our intended gameplay. |
| 23:33.20 | Ackis | quotes ZorbaTHut |
| 23:35.36 | Aurorus | yeah, totally understand ZorbaTHut |
| 23:35.59 | Aurorus | So the focus is on the interface, as opposed to gameplay |
| 23:37.34 | Aurorus | ZorbaTHut: Have you played LotRO much? There's a feature called Raid Assist, which is similar to the Shift+F Focus that Rift has, except you have a rectangular box with two columns. Players on the left and then their targets (or empty) on the right of them, up to 4 people (Right click on raid portrait and Add/Remove as Raid Assist Target). |
| 23:37.42 | Aurorus | Would that be something that you see as being in the AddOn domain? |