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| 03:22.33 | *** join/#riftuidev hp94 (4495f601@gateway/web/freenode/ip.68.149.246.1) |
| 03:22.41 | hp94 | hey everyone |
| 03:24.46 | Cairenn | evening hp94 |
| 03:26.02 | hp94 | Whats up? |
| 03:26.24 | Cairenn | Nothing much. You? |
| 03:29.13 | hp94 | Working on creating some API |
| 03:29.23 | Cairenn | Fun fun. |
| 03:29.39 | hp94 | There's apparently going to be AddOns in EO, and guess who's tasked with completing it? |
| 03:29.57 | Cairenn | EO? Eve Online? |
| 03:30.06 | hp94 | Close |
| 03:30.14 | hp94 | Equestria Online |
| 03:30.17 | Cairenn | Ah |
| 03:30.18 | lXl | Evony Online |
| 03:30.36 | Cairenn | And they've hired you to write their API? |
| 03:30.36 | hp94 | Closer |
| 03:30.38 | hp94 | lol |
| 03:30.46 | hp94 | Ya |
| 03:31.18 | Cairenn | Interesting ... |
| 03:31.19 | hp94 | Couldn't exactly stay around and keep up with C# background, so I'm moving into lua AND C# activities. |
| 03:31.52 | hp94 | As long as it stays as simple as it is I'll do fine =D |
| 03:37.16 | hp94 | I think I'm doing it wrong though. |
| 03:37.39 | hp94 | I just have one enourmous class with gets/sets/methods/enums/etc/etc, and it corresponds with lua commands. |
| 03:38.00 | hp94 | But I guess thats just because the framework in Unity is already mainly in place for things such as that. |
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| 03:52.45 | hp94 | Sometimes I'm glad zorbabeta doesn't just come back and scroll up to read what I write. |
| 03:54.13 | Cairenn | Are you sure that he doesn't? |
| 03:59.32 | Cairenn | I almost always skim (at the very least) the channel(s) to see what all has gone on while I've been afk. |
| 03:59.55 | hp94 | I wasn't before, but after something (I can't remember what) happened today I think I just noticed that he didn't. |
| 04:00.12 | hp94 | Besides, I've come back from long breaks, no way I'm reading 5000 lines of text. |
| 04:00.24 | hp94 | I can barely read as it is with the education system the way it is. |
| 04:00.28 | nohh | 5000? |
| 04:09.59 | hp94 | 20+ is just hurtful on my eyes |
| 04:10.49 | lXl | You should get an eye exam. |
| 04:11.38 | Cairenn | Agreed |
| 04:47.50 | hp94 | My eyes are already 5 full points off from 20/20 |
| 04:48.04 | lXl | Little late there? |
| 04:48.28 | hp94 | But recently they've been going closer to 20/20, the optometrist says the chances of it going even closer to 20/20 is pretty much 0%. |
| 05:29.32 | hp94 | yay, swifty got banned |
| 05:30.51 | Cairenn | Lordy, in here too? Who/what is swifty? They've been going on about it in my Wow ui dev channel too, but every time I ask, I get no answer. Who/what is swifty? |
| 05:31.10 | Cairenn | What are people going on about? |
| 05:36.07 | nohh | just some wow player |
| 05:37.24 | Cairenn | Again with the [that's not an answer] answer |
| 05:38.08 | nohh | some WoW player who has done a lot of videos and crap for a long time so a lot of people know him and follow him |
| 05:38.19 | nohh | he's unbanned now anyway |
| 05:39.02 | Cairenn | I actually finally just got an actual answer in the other channel just now, so s'all good. |
| 05:41.55 | hp94 | He was a guy who put out PvP videos, the notable ones are where he shows how ridiculous warriors are |
| 05:42.11 | hp94 | like in wrath, he ran a macro through his mouse and got to like 1800 in 2s... SOLO |
| 05:45.01 | nohh | ooh aah |
| 05:45.56 | hp94 | He also ran a haste stacking thing (all possible haste sources in the game almost), downed a pve boss in a few seconds. |
| 05:46.51 | lXl | How do you join a 2s solo? |
| 05:47.05 | lXl | Psh I've seen a paladin kill a raid boss in a few seconds. |
| 05:50.05 | nohh | pssh, vanilla kazzak was a chump anyway |
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| 05:53.16 | hp94 | vanilla=/=wrath |
| 05:53.27 | lXl | Vanilla =/= chocolate |
| 05:53.34 | lXl | Chocolate = Vanilla |
| 05:55.17 | hp94 | Vanilla=/=Vanilla |
| 05:55.46 | hp94 | lua> if(Vanilla==Vanilla) print("Vanilla") |
| 05:55.47 | lua_bot | hp94: luabot:1: 'then' expected near 'print' |
| 05:55.58 | hp94 | lua> if(Vanilla==Vanilla) then print("Vanilla") end |
| 05:55.59 | lua_bot | hp94: Vanilla |
| 05:56.03 | hp94 | NOOOOOO |
| 05:56.04 | lXl | And you got a job coding Lua... |
| 05:56.10 | hp94 | C# mainly lol |
| 05:56.35 | hp94 | Would use string.equals { //code } etc |
| 05:56.42 | nohh | i think the reckoning pally bug to kill Kazzak is cooler than stacking haste to kill the boss in Arcatraz |
| 05:56.52 | nohh | but that's just me |
| 05:57.16 | hp94 | What about stacking "Shadows In the Dark" to kill Kazzak after BC? |
| 05:57.54 | lXl | lua> print("vanilla" and "vanilla" or "chocolate") |
| 05:57.55 | lua_bot | lXl: vanilla |
| 05:58.10 | lXl | :) |
| 05:58.29 | lXl | Actually.. |
| 05:58.49 | nohh | well seeing as how that Shadows in the Dark trick wasnt around til WotLK |
| 05:59.24 | nohh | the vanilla kazzak solo was done during vanilla |
| 05:59.28 | lXl | lua> YourFavoriteIceCream="vanilla" or "chocolate"; print(YourFavoriteIceCream |
| 05:59.29 | lua_bot | lXl: luabot:1: ')' expected near '<eof>' |
| 05:59.30 | lXl | probably did that wrong |
| 05:59.31 | lXl | yeah |
| 05:59.51 | lXl | lua> YourFavoriteIceCream="vanilla" or "chocolate"; print(YourFavoriteIceCream) |
| 05:59.52 | lua_bot | lXl: vanilla |
| 06:00.15 | lXl | Lua likes vanilla! |
| 06:03.31 | seebs | True joy is being reasonably comfortable in Lua, perl, PHP, and Ruby, then trying to remember the semantics of "or". |
| 06:03.54 | seebs | Hint: In at least one of them, "vanilla" or "chocolate" == 1. |
| 06:03.57 | lXl | Lua alone throws you out of the loop |
| 06:04.08 | lXl | Valid in Lua |
| 06:04.11 | nohh | orr ||= ore or oreo |
| 06:04.12 | lXl | Wait |
| 06:04.25 | lXl | Yeah I think that could be valid in Lua, just unnecessary |
| 06:04.26 | seebs | I think, though I'd have to check, that lua and ruby both agree that a or b = a if a is non-false, else b. |
| 06:04.36 | seebs | Where nil and false are false. Or something. |
| 06:04.42 | seebs | Oh, add Python, where nil is None. |
| 06:04.44 | lXl | Yeah |
| 06:05.01 | seebs | PHP and perl both consider empty strings false, and also zeroes. Ruby and Lua both consider empty strings and zeroes true. |
| 06:05.31 | lXl | You're comparing if either string are true (which the first defaults to being it has nothing to compare against) that if either are equal to 1 |
| 06:05.53 | lXl | And Lua is so not strict with strings a string can equal a numeric value |
| 06:06.01 | lXl | Did I get it right? |
| 06:06.06 | seebs | In PHP, the expr <"vanilla" || "chocolate"> evaluates to 1, I think. |
| 06:06.24 | seebs | In perl and Ruby, short-circuits yield the non-false or non-true value that short-circuited them. |
| 06:07.58 | lXl | I need to get into PHP again |
| 06:08.02 | nohh | a = b and c or d unless e |
| 06:08.10 | seebs | There was a guy in comp.lang.c promoting some kind of C-as-a-scripting-language thing which he thought would completely replace scripting languages because C is so much better. |
| 06:08.12 | seebs | I giggled. |
| 06:08.13 | lXl | Unless? |
| 06:08.17 | nohh | unless. |
| 06:08.28 | seebs | PHP is my least favorite programming language ever. I actually prefer C++ to it. |
| 06:08.43 | lXl | a=b and c or d or else |
| 06:08.49 | nohh | _OR ELSE_ |
| 06:08.56 | nohh | shakes his fist at the computer |
| 06:08.57 | lXl | no choice |
| 06:09.26 | lXl | I want to make a few additions to Lua |
| 06:09.28 | lXl | one being "maybe" |
| 06:09.33 | seebs | Heh. |
| 06:09.40 | lXl | a or b maybe c |
| 06:09.56 | seebs | I once proposed the addition of "very" and "too" as modifiers in C. |
| 06:10.17 | nohh | a or ((rand() < 0.5) ? b : c) |
| 06:10.20 | seebs | "very long int" would be the largest type supported, "too long int" would be an object too large for the computer to actually store it. |
| 06:10.44 | lXl | I thought you meant like.. a very > b then c |
| 06:10.45 | seebs | Oddly, the committee members seemed to feel this suggestion was not entirely practical. |
| 06:13.01 | nohh | i dunno, i like the idea of 'maybe', 'often', 'usually', 'sometimes', 'rarely' as keywords for non-deterministic programs |
| 06:14.06 | lXl | Okay Lua.. this value MIGHT be false, but lets assume it's true for a bit. |
| 06:15.26 | seebs | I think there's already at least one environment that uses often(condition) |
| 06:15.29 | nohh | a often b sometimes d rarely e |
| 06:15.35 | seebs | Although it's an optimizer hint for branch prediction. |
| 06:15.55 | seebs | One of my favorite optimizations I ever saw: |
| 06:15.58 | seebs | Someone replaced: |
| 06:16.04 | seebs | if (z) x += y; |
| 06:16.04 | seebs | with |
| 06:16.08 | seebs | x += (y * z) |
| 06:16.13 | seebs | where z was known to be either 0 or 1. |
| 06:16.30 | seebs | About a 70% improvement in the whole mathematics-heavy algorithm, because that had been the only branch in it. |
| 06:17.12 | nohh | 70% eh |
| 06:17.37 | seebs | Yeah. Branches are INSANELY expensive on some modern hardware. At least compared to stuff you can pipeline into nothingness. |
| 06:17.56 | seebs | Basically, a single branch costs more than about 20 actual instructions. |
| 06:18.07 | seebs | Exact numbers vary widely, and I might have the amount wrong, but it was huge. |
| 06:18.26 | seebs | FOOD BREAK! |
| 06:19.03 | nohh | ofc that only happens if it screws up on the prediction |
| 06:20.39 | nohh | anyway *workworkwork* |
| 06:24.06 | seebs | Well, in that case, the prediction was about 50-50 as I recall. |
| 06:24.13 | seebs | So either way it was pricey. |
| 06:37.08 | hp94 | ya, I agree |
| 06:49.45 | mckenziemc1 | i wonder if the bear is coming back tonight : / |
| 06:50.12 | lXl | A friendly bear? |
| 06:51.05 | mckenziemc1 | no |
| 06:51.15 | hp94 | Is it the Ursa Minor? |
| 06:51.16 | mckenziemc1 | it broke my car window last night... for four granola bars |
| 06:51.22 | mckenziemc1 | and some bottled water |
| 06:51.24 | hp94 | Sounds like an Ursa Major |
| 06:51.34 | lXl | That's a picky bear. |
| 06:52.25 | mckenziemc1 | the irony is it locked the car door on its way out |
| 06:52.33 | mckenziemc1 | D: |
| 06:52.36 | lXl | At least you didn't have any soda. |
| 06:52.37 | lXl | http://images.fanpop.com/images/image_uploads/The-Coke-Polar-Bear-coke-57341_1024_774.jpg |
| 06:53.07 | hp94 | lol |
| 06:53.08 | hp94 | thats great |
| 06:56.17 | mckenziemc1 | i'm glad i shut the house door last night though, normally i leave it open so air can flow through the screen door |
| 06:56.39 | mckenziemc1 | but the latch doesn't work, and a skunk got in the night before >.> |
| 06:59.10 | hp94 | Where do you live (country)? |
| 06:59.29 | hp94 | Canada's doing pretty good in the skunkless department. |
| 06:59.32 | mckenziemc1 | US |
| 07:00.11 | mckenziemc1 | i can send this one up for you |
| 07:01.53 | hp94 | Just be sure to pay the extra $15 or so to make sure I have to sign for it, so you know it got here all right, don't want the little guy to have a bad time. |
| 07:02.05 | hp94 | Or, um, no oxygen in the cargo hold. |
| 07:10.05 | Cairenn|afk | night all |
| 07:12.16 | hp94 | night |
| 07:17.22 | nohh | at least the bear didnt lock himself in your car |
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| 07:18.18 | hp94 | lol |
| 07:19.48 | lXl | So a bear really stole your bottled waters to drink? |
| 07:21.40 | nohh | if you live near Jellystone National Park I think I know whodunnit |
| 07:22.59 | mckenziemc1 | probably thought they contained something more tasty than simple water |
| 07:24.16 | mckenziemc1 | i have pictures but i'm not going to upload them on dialup :( |
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| 10:05.31 | ZorbaBeta | seebs, GCC supports branch hints. I've actually had it make a program *faster* by adding a conditional with a branch hint. |
| 10:05.37 | ZorbaBeta | msvc, sadly, does not :( |
| 10:20.02 | hp94 | I need to afk less. |
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| 16:22.48 | Cairenn | quiet today |
| 16:49.50 | nicoli_s | i can hear the wind rushing by! |
| 16:50.17 | Cairenn | hehehe |
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| 17:19.34 | Ackis | nicoli_s: that was me farting sorry buddy |
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| 20:37.14 | ZorbaBeta | I imagine that's at least partially thanks to an unfortunate lack of updates lately. it's been a bunch of prep for the next patch, a bunch of SNAFU, a bunch of big features being worked on. Though there's something coming up real soon - I literally missed getting it into the last PTR patch by an hour. |
| 20:44.41 | nohh | its all your fault :( |
| 20:46.35 | nicoli_s | we forgive you ZorbaBeta |
| 20:46.41 | nicoli_s | ...if you tell us what it is :P |
| 20:46.46 | ZorbaBeta | no. :D |
| 20:47.32 | nicoli_s | itll work one day |
| 20:48.09 | ZorbaBeta | no. ;) |
| 20:50.05 | nicoli_s | im ready for the addons to be out so i can actually have some motivation to finish my addon |
| 20:51.09 | nicoli_s | addons* |
| 20:51.18 | nohh | what cha making? |
| 20:51.25 | nicoli_s | a map replacement |
| 20:51.33 | nohh | awe |
| 20:51.42 | nicoli_s | as well as a lib for providing data about lots of stuff |
| 20:51.56 | nohh | why would i want to use your map over the default one |
| 20:51.56 | nicoli_s | npcs, vendors, possibly quests and recipes |
| 20:52.19 | nicoli_s | because you can say "find npcname" and it will pop up a spot on my map you can click on for extra info |
| 20:53.02 | nicoli_s | or "find vendors itemname" and it will display all the vendors in an area selling that particular item |
| 20:53.17 | nohh | do you really need a full map replacement for that? |
| 20:53.21 | nicoli_s | yes |
| 20:53.33 | nicoli_s | there is no interaction with existing UI |
| 20:53.37 | nicoli_s | because its in flash |
| 20:53.53 | nicoli_s | and i dont see that as something thats just gonna happen one day, i expect thatll take some time to roll out |
| 20:54.09 | nohh | yeah but you'll lose out on all the neat troop movement stuff in the current map |
| 20:54.11 | nicoli_s | but mine would also be able to support instance maps and things like that |
| 20:54.18 | nicoli_s | yeah but its not meant for that |
| 20:54.29 | nicoli_s | its meant to be used for looking up stuff you cant find on the existing map |
| 20:54.57 | nohh | yes but what if you just made waypoints |
| 20:55.06 | nicoli_s | waypoints? |
| 20:55.10 | Torhal|work | watches nicoli_s put a map in the map so he can find stuff while he finds stuff. |
| 20:56.19 | nohh | yes.. map .. link.. things |
| 20:56.32 | nicoli_s | well you cant create those programaticcly |
| 20:56.47 | nohh | looks at zorba longingly |
| 20:57.00 | nicoli_s | i basically wanted to do something hard, but also useful |
| 20:57.19 | nicoli_s | and that would also make anti addon people go: "see they have an advantage" |
| 20:57.20 | ZorbaBeta | I'll admit that the map API is relatively far down on the list of priorities. Conveniently, though, it's also easier and less sensitive than most of the things on that list. |
| 20:57.44 | ZorbaBeta | If it shows up soon, it'll be because I had some spare time and didn't want to start one of the behemoth projects. |
| 20:57.55 | ZorbaBeta | Probably won't, though. :P |
| 20:58.49 | seebs | So how many more people do we need to get subscribed before they hire you another guy so you can make addon support faster? |
| 20:59.10 | nohh | is there no slash command to make a waypoint from a loc? |
| 20:59.14 | ZorbaBeta | if you think you can make a business case for it, let me know, but I think the answer would be "a whole lot" |
| 20:59.23 | ZorbaBeta | nohh, there isn't |
| 20:59.38 | ZorbaBeta | (I know this for a fact because I wrote most of the waypoint system :P) |
| 20:59.54 | nohh | well there should be! :d |
| 21:00.14 | nicoli_s | nohh:even with the waypoint stuff, my addon could provide a bunch more stuff |
| 21:00.18 | seebs | BUSINESS CASE? Sir, are you an artist or a merchant?!?! "Business cases" are for the lower classes. YOU SHOULD BE WORKING FOR LOVE! |
| 21:00.21 | nicoli_s | like a point for AtlasLoot to hook into |
| 21:00.32 | seebs | Try saying that to Scott, see whether it convinces him. |
| 21:00.50 | ZorbaBeta | I don't think he'd be terribly convinced, sorry to say ;) |
| 21:00.50 | seebs | It probably won't convince him but I bet he'd get a laugh out of it. |
| 21:01.03 | nohh | oh im sure nicoli, i'd say it'd be something to build up to though |
| 21:01.23 | nicoli_s | oh well no need to build up to it, its almost done :P |
| 21:01.23 | nohh | as more functionality is exposed |
| 21:01.35 | seebs | The impression I get is that you guys have more people working on stuff-in-general than you expected to at this point in your development/growth. |
| 21:02.02 | nicoli_s | it can already search and display through data to display points on the map that can be panned and zoomed, and you can attach click handlers to individual points or types of points |
| 21:02.18 | seebs | You could hire a guy whose job is to agree that gearscore was bad and then work on the API, and write it off as PR. |
| 21:04.23 | ZorbaBeta | nicoli, I really want to see this addon because I have no idea how you're handling things like panning and zooming right now |
| 21:04.49 | nicoli_s | ZorbaBeta:i made my own google maps images and i just basically implement my entire map system |
| 21:05.27 | nohh | click/drag panning in-game? |
| 21:05.37 | nicoli_s | nah, just via a UI for now |
| 21:05.45 | nicoli_s | until we can set texture coordinates i cant make it that smooth |
| 21:06.50 | nicoli_s | i happened to have all the google images leftover from a scrapped project for riftdb so i figured id put them to some use |
| 21:06.55 | nicoli_s | that and 25k+ npc locs |
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| 23:12.22 | ZorbaBeta | the downside to spending so much time and effort polishing the Rift addon API is that now, when I go back to my personal code that it's based on, the original feels so primitive |
| 23:12.46 | hp94 | buhdum tish? |
| 23:12.48 | ZorbaBeta | gonna have to rewrite 2/3 of this just to bring it up to par |
| 23:12.56 | hp94 | Oh |
| 23:12.58 | hp94 | Good luck =D |
| 23:13.14 | hp94 | I hope it finishes up nicely =D |
| 23:13.41 | ZorbaBeta | it'll happen well after the addon api is done, I just don't have time right now |
| 23:15.12 | seebs | $ make time |
| 23:15.19 | nicoli_s | so this is a personal addon implementation, for what, another game? |
| 23:15.55 | ZorbaBeta | nicoli, it's my rapid game development framework. I modeled the UI system off what I was familiar with in WoW, and then of course I modeled the Rift UI off the system I'd already implemented |
| 23:17.24 | ZorbaBeta | to the point of copying large swaths of code just because, hey, I'd already debugged it, no point in debugging it a second time. Made the whole thing come together much more rapidly. |
| 23:17.52 | ZorbaBeta | but I also spent a lot of time rethinking and formalizing the Rift UI API, so it came out much, much cleaner, and I know a lot more about Lua API design than I did when I started my game framework. |
| 23:18.09 | nicoli_s | ahh very cool |
| 23:24.03 | ZorbaBeta | the whole frame.Event idea solved a problem I'd been fighting with for *months*, for example. |
| 23:24.03 | hp94 | Does the GameByro Engine come with an easy way to create API/GUIs? |
| 23:24.10 | ZorbaBeta | So, so much cleaner. |
| 23:24.22 | *** join/#riftuidev Aurorus (~Aurorus@unaffiliated/aurorus) |
| 23:25.30 | ZorbaBeta | hp94, I think people drastically overestimate what Gamebryo actually does. It's mostly 3d graphics and rendering, with a bit of cross-platform API. |
| 23:28.19 | hp94 | So AddOns capabilities are actually added in to the system? There's no preset route to go for easy addon capabilities? |
| 23:29.01 | ZorbaBeta | I don't think Gamebryo includes anything involving 2d graphics or game logic, besides collisions. That's all ours. |
| 23:29.14 | ZorbaBeta | Honestly I think I've actually touched Gamebryo code a grand total of once in the entire time I've been at Trion. |
| 23:29.49 | ZorbaBeta | (I could be wrong about what Gamebryo does, note, I haven't looked into it much because I haven't had to work with it.) |
| 23:29.58 | nicoli_s | gamebryo is more for models and things |
| 23:30.15 | nicoli_s | game companies use them so they dont have to write their own model importers/exporters/animation and such |
| 23:30.57 | ZorbaBeta | yeah, pretty much. |
| 23:31.05 | ZorbaBeta | Which tends to be very uninteresting but very timeconsuming to write. |
| 23:31.05 | nicoli_s | so many companies use them these days, but i cant complain, makes my job of writign a model viewer for them easier :P |
| 23:32.49 | nohh | pats his modelviewers on the head |
| 23:37.16 | hp94 | I guess I'm going to have to look up tutorials on how to make API myself then, that seems like a much more difficult system than what I'm working with. |
| 23:39.48 | hp94 | Ooo, unread mail from Trion... =) |
| 23:40.04 | nohh | made extra fun by the fact that you're using C# |
| 23:40.34 | hp94 | Well, they have a GUI system already in place, for C# Javascript and Boo. |
| 23:41.24 | nohh | have fun |
| 23:43.04 | *** join/#riftuidev Wonsu (~steven@cpe-76-178-231-78.maine.res.rr.com) |
| 23:43.07 | *** part/#riftuidev Wonsu (~steven@cpe-76-178-231-78.maine.res.rr.com) |
| 23:50.44 | *** join/#riftuidev hp94 (4495f601@gateway/web/freenode/ip.68.149.246.1) |
| 23:50.51 | hp94 | Bluescreened again =( |
| 23:51.03 | hp94 | But you know, is to be expected. |
| 23:52.05 | nicoli_s | hp94:whats the mail? |
| 23:52.26 | nicoli_s | nohh:what do you have model viewers written for? |
| 23:53.16 | hp94 | gonna have to go back and check |
| 23:56.28 | ZorbaBeta | hp94, whatever you're doing, you're probably doing it wrong |
| 23:56.33 | ZorbaBeta | bluescreens should generally not occur |
| 23:57.13 | Torhal | ZorbaBeta: He should probably stop overclocking his monitor. |
| 23:57.15 | Torhal | >.> |
| 23:57.16 | Torhal | <.< |
| 23:58.31 | hp94 | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pR_K7C6QPUQ |
| 23:59.44 | Aurorus | if you're BSODing while overclocking, then you're doing it wrong. That's the software's way of telling you that the hardware is being incredibly mistreated. |
