| 00:00.33 | *** join/#riftuidev Cairenn (~Karen@MMOI/Administratrix/Cairenn) |
| 00:00.33 | *** mode/#riftuidev [+o Cairenn] by ChanServ |
| 01:57.41 | *** join/#riftuidev methyl (~Miranda@c-67-189-55-147.hsd1.or.comcast.net) |
| 02:29.46 | *** join/#riftuidev blueberry1 (~blueberri@ip70-173-203-107.lv.lv.cox.net) |
| 02:32.20 | blueberry1 | Does anyone know when will we be able to use addons in the actual game? is it in 1.4? |
| 02:36.32 | Cairenn | IANATE, but it seems to me that there's still an awful long way to go before they'd push it live. It is so very restricted in what all is possible to do at this point ... |
| 02:36.58 | Cairenn | shrugs |
| 02:37.28 | *** join/#riftuidev hp94 (4495f601@gateway/web/freenode/ip.68.149.246.1) |
| 02:37.30 | Cairenn | Although I guess that depends also on how far out 1.4 is |
| 02:46.29 | nohh | oh hi blueberry |
| 02:49.23 | *** join/#riftuidev hp94_ (4495f601@gateway/web/freenode/ip.68.149.246.1) |
| 02:55.47 | seebs | I was under the impression that the intent was for the API to grow pretty much all the time after addons became a part of the live game. |
| 02:56.49 | nohh | grow for a bit, then shrink, then disappear complete, only to reappear the next patch completely changed |
| 02:56.55 | nohh | completely* |
| 02:58.58 | Cairenn | lol |
| 02:59.45 | Cairenn | Oh, I've no doubt the entire API won't be in by the time it launches, I just figured that there would likely be at least a bit more in first. However, as I said, IANATE |
| 03:13.10 | blueberry1 | Hi there nohh :) |
| 03:13.32 | nohh | how ya been, you disappeared for a bit |
| 03:13.54 | blueberry1 | I've been so stressed out but I'm recuperating now :) |
| 03:14.07 | blueberry1 | started to play a bit of Rift...thinking of messing around with the addons |
| 03:15.24 | nohh | oh, well hope your recuperation goes well :) rift addon could be fun and a good learning experience |
| 03:18.02 | blueberry1 | nohh are you on google plus? |
| 03:18.55 | nohh | yes'm |
| 03:19.56 | Cairenn | sniffles - no one asks if I am |
| 03:20.45 | fewyn | CAIRENN ARE YOU ON G+? |
| 03:20.53 | nohh | You bet she is! |
| 03:20.55 | Cairenn | ZOMG YES! |
| 03:21.16 | Cairenn | smoogles fewyn |
| 03:21.25 | blueberry1 | i'm already following you cairenn :) |
| 03:21.30 | Cairenn | I know ;) |
| 03:21.45 | Cairenn | I was just teasing :) |
| 03:21.53 | fewyn | CAIRENN ARE YOU IN MUH CIRCLES |
| 03:22.24 | Cairenn | fewyn: I CAN'T REMEMBER YOUR RN |
| 03:22.39 | fewyn | cool stuff i can't remember yours either |
| 03:22.47 | Cairenn | lol |
| 03:22.55 | Cairenn | just do a search on Cairenn ;) |
| 03:23.04 | Cairenn | I made it easy for everyone |
| 03:23.04 | fewyn | ohai |
| 03:23.06 | fewyn | i see you |
| 03:23.09 | Cairenn | :) |
| 03:23.12 | fewyn | *adds* |
| 03:24.26 | Cairenn | Now, mind you, once I can have my partner page account on there, I'll be switching it over to my 'main' account and this'll go back to my secondary account |
| 03:24.39 | Cairenn | to being my* |
| 03:24.59 | Cairenn | but right now you can't use it with partner page accounts |
| 03:25.26 | Cairenn | I also am very much looking forward to being able to create pages/accounts for sites |
| 03:25.42 | Cairenn | I know it's still beta, but I want both of those things RIGHT NOW GDIT! |
| 03:25.51 | Cairenn | ;) |
| 03:25.51 | fewyn | i agree |
| 03:28.04 | nohh | so.. why exactly do you need a page for your site on G+? |
| 03:28.27 | Cairenn | Same reason we have a page on FB for our sites? |
| 03:29.06 | Cairenn | it's another way of keeping in touch with our communities :) |
| 03:29.11 | nohh | to avoid having to set up an about us page and blog elsewhere? |
| 03:29.25 | Cairenn | I don't blog |
| 03:29.52 | fewyn | so we have a place to +1 us |
| 03:30.03 | Cairenn | ^^ |
| 03:30.05 | fewyn | because we're awesome like that |
| 03:31.37 | mckenziemc | ~wtf ianate |
| 03:31.41 | nohh | except you can +1 anywhere |
| 03:31.47 | nohh | i am not a trion employee |
| 03:31.54 | Cairenn | I Am Not A Trion Employee |
| 03:32.00 | Cairenn | yep |
| 03:32.43 | Cairenn | I don't usually worry about stating that, but on some topics (where I'm also likely to say IANAL), I will tag that |
| 03:33.01 | mckenziemc | that looks dirty D: |
| 03:33.19 | Cairenn | or s/t/w t/s t/b etc |
| 03:33.38 | Cairenn | IANAL == I am not a lawyer |
| 03:33.39 | nohh | s/w/f n/s n/c ? |
| 03:33.45 | mckenziemc | yeah |
| 03:34.01 | mckenziemc | still dirty, either way ;) |
| 03:34.04 | Cairenn | heh |
| 04:26.37 | *** join/#riftuidev ZorbaTHut (266f9ff2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.38.111.159.242) |
| 04:26.45 | ZorbaTHut | changelog updated :) |
| 04:27.02 | Cairenn | danke Zorba |
| 04:49.05 | hp94_ | Hey zorbster |
| 04:49.37 | ZorbaTHut | heya |
| 04:51.01 | hp94_ | Oh, you removed print_console? |
| 04:52.12 | ZorbaTHut | yeah, it was sort of a relic of an old design decision |
| 05:18.58 | hp94_ | Hey Zorba, do you play on live shards? |
| 05:21.06 | *** join/#riftuidev Snarty (~Kekoas@76-224-179-182.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net) |
| 05:30.49 | *** join/#riftuidev Snarty (~Kekoas@76-224-179-182.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net) |
| 05:35.10 | *** join/#riftuidev mckenziemc1 (~Mark@dialup-4.246.254.109.Dial1.SanJose1.Level3.net) |
| 05:54.39 | hp94_ | You know what would be great? If we could bold chat between players in game - have like [b] bold here [/b] type tags. |
| 05:56.03 | Cairenn | oh god no |
| 05:56.15 | Cairenn | it's bad enough with people screaming in all caps all the time |
| 05:56.25 | lXl | LIKE WHO? |
| 05:56.39 | Cairenn | ZOMG HAI2U lXl! |
| 05:57.12 | lXl | LAWL HI |
| 05:59.22 | Cairenn | hehehe |
| 06:06.31 | hp94_ | What would be so bad about it? |
| 06:06.46 | hp94_ | This way you can emphasize text without having to caps it - and its good for RPers |
| 06:07.07 | Cairenn | It would, unfortunately, be abused by the jerks of the world, which would spoil it for everyone else. |
| 06:08.24 | nohh | if you were going to do something like that at least use http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Textile_%28markup_language%29 instead of bbcode |
| 06:09.23 | lXl | ****_-+wat?+-_* |
| 06:11.09 | nohh | wouldn't count on ever having support for anything like that though |
| 06:14.45 | Cairenn | Can you imagine if they let you used coloured chat? Not like a different colour for a specific channel, but the ability to use a different colour for each sentence/word/letter ... |
| 06:14.55 | Cairenn | shudders |
| 06:16.16 | nohh | sets mode -c |
| 06:16.18 | Snarty | could have the option client side to turn it off |
| 06:16.21 | Cairenn | yeah, really |
| 06:16.33 | Cairenn | *nod* |
| 06:16.35 | Snarty | some people may like it.. *shrug |
| 06:17.05 | Cairenn | if they were ever to allow text formatting, I'd hope they'd have client side controls to strip it out |
| 06:17.14 | Snarty | believe they have a similar option in WoW with their icons in text thing. |
| 06:17.45 | Snarty | yeah, they'd have to Cairenn, can't force people to endure other's idea of "nice" |
| 06:17.54 | Cairenn | nod |
| 06:18.09 | Cairenn | it's like the profanity filters |
| 06:18.28 | Cairenn | I don't personally use them very often, but I whole heartedly agree that they need to be there |
| 06:18.32 | ZorbaTHut | hp, yep, I do |
| 06:18.39 | Snarty | indeed, but oh for the day to have profanity replacement "sets", could amuse me all day |
| 06:18.44 | ZorbaTHut | pretty sure most or all of the developers do |
| 06:19.34 | Snarty | (read as amuse me all night after a few beers) |
| 06:20.28 | Cairenn | hehehe |
| 06:21.29 | Snarty | think Aion replaced profanity with shugo talk iirc |
| 06:21.55 | Snarty | (possibly on the forums only) |
| 06:22.12 | nohh | what a yerk |
| 06:22.17 | Snarty | lol :) |
| 06:23.44 | Snarty | guess profanity replacement is the place for addons though, when/if the api opens up chat. |
| 06:25.30 | *** join/#riftuidev Dramiel (~Adium@134.140.broadband5.iol.cz) |
| 06:25.46 | Snarty | != in Lua is ~= right? |
| 06:25.54 | Cairenn | yes |
| 06:26.04 | Snarty | thx |
| 06:27.10 | nohh | crazy brazilians |
| 06:28.11 | Snarty | oops, it seems variable typo's cause the same confusion in lua as C also *thumbs up |
| 06:30.50 | lXl | Zorba.. is Trion going to do anything about macros? |
| 06:36.08 | hp94_ | And ZorbaTHut, if you have a 50, wanna duel? |
| 06:36.32 | ZorbaTHut | lxl, wrong person to ask about that, sorry |
| 06:36.43 | ZorbaTHut | hp94, I don't do much PvP and don't want to give out my character name :) |
| 06:37.28 | ZorbaTHut | The most fun I have with PvP is going Dominator and annoying people. |
| 06:37.41 | hp94_ | Hey, that's how I have fun =( |
| 06:37.54 | Cairenn | Zorba: you mean you guys are given the choice? Most of the game companies I've dealt with (up until this point) have had a pretty strict rule that staff aren't /allowed/ to give out their in-game char names |
| 06:38.35 | hp94_ | See Cairenn? You tried to emphasize your text by putting /allowed/, when you could have used [b] [/b] if it was available. |
| 06:38.42 | Cairenn | :p |
| 06:38.56 | ZorbaTHut | cairenn, things are a bit looser around here. Most people keep things quiet, of course. |
| 06:39.03 | Cairenn | nod |
| 06:39.36 | ZorbaTHut | I know one person who regularly raids with a bunch of Blizzard employees, for example, and obviously they know who he is :P |
| 06:40.00 | Cairenn | nod |
| 06:40.24 | hp94_ | One Trion employee raiding with Blizzard employees? |
| 06:40.32 | hp94_ | The world is ending? |
| 06:40.47 | Cairenn | Not saying it doesn't actually gets out, just that most say you aren't supposed to, because it can lead to some really awkward situations |
| 06:41.17 | Cairenn | I knew that there were Blizz employees in my EQ guild, for example |
| 06:41.17 | lXl | "This quest sucks" "I made that quest :(" /awkward |
| 06:41.25 | ZorbaTHut | Yeah, I think that's the general policy around here. |
| 06:41.30 | Snarty | I wouldn't give out I'm an employee in-game, would never get any peace |
| 06:41.34 | ZorbaTHut | lxl, usually followed by "and yeah, it sucks" |
| 06:41.38 | Cairenn | yep |
| 06:42.11 | ZorbaTHut | I've found that few people are more critical about game design than the person who designed it. |
| 06:42.34 | lXl | Except forum warriors. |
| 06:42.43 | lXl | They're critical about anything they can. |
| 06:42.48 | Cairenn | yeah, but are they people? |
| 06:42.52 | lXl | Oh. |
| 06:42.56 | Cairenn | errr, sorry, was that out loud? |
| 06:43.21 | Cairenn | ;) |
| 06:43.38 | hp94_ | I'm more critical about game design than the people who designed it. |
| 06:44.00 | *** join/#riftuidev blueberry1 (~blueberri@ip70-173-203-107.lv.lv.cox.net) |
| 06:44.04 | hp94_ | For instance, I will let anyone know that WoW is generally badly made - only in the past 60 days or so have I actually seen something nice programming wise, at least, from Blizzard. |
| 06:44.21 | hp94_ | The engine itself is like swiss cheese on the inside. |
| 06:44.37 | Snarty | back when I wrote games on the spectrum and amiga it was hard to say "ok I'm happy with this, it's finished" had to generally have someone else say "leave it alone!" |
| 06:44.41 | lXl | "Warning: LUA is not for the casual programmer. " Just saw that on the boards... |
| 06:44.50 | hp94_ | The RIFT engine has such a great physics engine. |
| 06:45.01 | hp94_ | And it has a million little things that just make it better on the whole. |
| 06:45.05 | lXl | Lua is such a forgiving and lazy language... |
| 06:45.31 | Snarty | dunno about that lxl, I'm in pj bottoms and a t-shirt, that's pretty casual |
| 06:45.49 | lXl | Exactly. |
| 06:45.53 | Snarty | :) |
| 06:46.37 | lXl | But yeah I once saw "too many rifts" along side "not enough rifts" on the forums, I mean wtf you people want? |
| 06:46.43 | ZorbaTHut | lxl, to be honest, the forum warriors tend to be critical about surface issues. the game developers tend to be critical about much deeper systematic problems |
| 06:46.44 | lXl | You being them.. |
| 06:46.54 | lXl | I could understand that. |
| 06:47.15 | ZorbaTHut | the forum warrior says "the saimirimancer is overpowered", the developer says "the saimirimancer was a flawed concept from the beginning and is essentially impossible to balance" |
| 06:47.38 | lXl | Did.. did Zorba just release a new calling name? |
| 06:47.47 | Snarty | and 23 random people add.. l2p |
| 06:47.57 | ZorbaTHut | no, I just spent a minute looking up genus names to invent a fake calling name ;) |
| 06:48.20 | lXl | Showing results for saimiri cancer. Search instead for saimirimancer. |
| 06:48.25 | lXl | Oh dear... |
| 06:48.27 | Snarty | it's cool, I'm currently rolling one of those now |
| 06:48.51 | lXl | You talk to Scott right? Suggest the Saimirimancer. It sounds fun. |
| 06:48.52 | hp94_ | ZorbaTHut: No class is ever impossible to balance. Not in WoW, RIFT, EQ, or any MMO. |
| 06:48.56 | Snarty | but I'm sure it had nothing to do with zoomancer |
| 06:49.10 | lXl | It counters a Zoomancer for sure. |
| 06:49.17 | Snarty | lol |
| 06:49.20 | Snarty | indeed |
| 06:49.41 | ZorbaTHut | hp94, I strongly disagree with that. It is entirely possible for a class to be unbalancable. |
| 06:50.19 | Snarty | I've played the same pvp spec since day 1 pretty much. Was fun the first week or so of releasing not know what the heck I was doing. |
| 06:50.21 | ZorbaTHut | It's also possible for the existence of a class to dictate very unfortunate things about the behavior of other classes or the behavior of encounters. |
| 06:50.30 | hp94_ | It's like chess - the more pieces (input) that is included, the harder it is. Especially if different sides start getting different pieces. But it is limited, and its not impossible. |
| 06:50.48 | lXl | The SC2 DotA had a class that was impossible to balance, AoE damage on hit, spammable AoE damage, all damage heals for retarded damage, and ulti hits for half of someones HP. |
| 06:51.06 | lXl | Sometimes the only way to balance is to rework or make 100% gimp. |
| 06:51.11 | hp94_ | Also, this is why I shouldn't ever go AFK in WoW [NSFW] - http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll302/8u3jc/WoWScrnShot_071211_004603.jpg |
| 06:51.44 | lXl | I really don't miss that game |
| 06:52.13 | lXl | I miss my death knight though.. does warrior come remotely close to one? |
| 06:52.30 | hp94_ | Heh, well, I justfinished the Xelerated thingamajig in that game today so I can finally go back to RIFT. |
| 06:52.31 | Snarty | I went back.. just to see, and I really don't miss it, fully burned out after 4 years solid raiding I think. |
| 06:53.48 | hp94_ | Warriors are still doing 80k raging blow combos on a 1.4min cooldown on high resil targets, mages got nerfed to the point where my 7k spell power frost mage has frostbolts hitting for 5.1k averages, and EVERYTHING shares a CD with each other for freezes. Ice barrier still goes down in one auto attack and death knights, who were already bad, got buffed again. |
| 06:53.48 | Snarty | 10 85's geared, no real gold worries. Just stood in Org and went.. hmm. Logout |
| 06:53.55 | Cairenn | hp94_: do yourself a favour here, please? Don't talk about the fact that you've been doing work for Xelerated Guide, given that some of the authors in here have been sending them C&D and DMCA take-down orders |
| 06:54.17 | hp94_ | It's not that that game is impossible to balance, its just looking like they're trying less and less. |
| 06:54.24 | Cairenn | Because they (Xelerated) have been violating their (the authors') copyright |
| 06:54.55 | hp94_ | They offered me better pay to keep on working with them - and I turned them down for that reason as well as others. |
| 06:55.09 | hp94_ | I just wanted to get out, so I finished what I promised and left. |
| 06:55.35 | Cairenn | I didn't say that you should or shouldn't keep working for them - I just said that you probably don't want to talk about it in here |
| 06:56.24 | Cairenn | :) |
| 06:56.54 | hp94_ | Well, I guess either way I didn't want to be in that kind of environment. |
| 06:56.59 | Cairenn | *nod* |
| 06:57.17 | Cairenn | I'm glad to hear you are getting out, but I wasn't trying to presume to tell you what to do |
| 06:57.35 | hp94_ | This probably isn't any better of a topic to jump to, but did the Addons@Trion get back to you on the AddOn of mine? |
| 06:57.44 | Cairenn | nope, not as of yet |
| 06:58.08 | Cairenn | like I said, will probably take a few days, since it will likely have to get kicked up to the legal dept |
| 06:58.09 | hp94_ | Did you put "attn: AddOn Department" in the subject title? |
| 06:58.33 | Cairenn | um, given that the address is ADDONS@ ... lol .. no, I didn't |
| 06:58.45 | hp94_ | They won't see your email then, from my experience. |
| 06:59.03 | Cairenn | They will, I'm not worried about it |
| 06:59.22 | hp94_ | I've sent a couple emails to the legal department, and it wasn't until I was told I HAD to include "attn: Legal Department" in the subject that I started receiving emails back (and they reply within an hour or so). |
| 06:59.41 | Dramiel | because they wanted the spam to stop imo |
| 06:59.42 | Dramiel | :p |
| 07:00.13 | hp94_ | Pffft, it was like, 2 emails, about two seperate things... |
| 07:01.10 | Cairenn | oh crap, when did it get this late? |
| 07:01.57 | seebs | IXI: To answer your question, reaver, VK, paragon, and champion can between them give you a pretty good approximation of the feel of a DK, depending on spec. |
| 07:02.08 | hp94_ | Reaver <3 |
| 07:02.42 | lXl | I'll miss the lichborne healing |
| 07:03.41 | hp94_ | ZorbaTHut: Some people (That I'm 99% sure are gold spamming companies) wanted an easy way to whisper an entire server in one button - would it be possible to keep the "/who" listings unavailable from AddOns (and there's also the annoying guild auto-invite spam thats gotten so popular too). |
| 07:06.23 | lXl | Oh well, Spammenot type addons will cut that. |
| 07:06.43 | hp94_ | That would make Spammenot addons mandatory |
| 07:08.15 | ZorbaTHut | We'll deal with those issues when we're thinking about that API in more detail. |
| 07:08.32 | lXl | Those addons are just about mandatory |
| 07:09.17 | seebs | I'd love to see the abillity to make a decent census, but obviously there would be competitive advantage issues there. |
| 07:09.40 | seebs | Honestly, that one I'd probably approach from the social side, not the technological side. |
| 07:09.50 | seebs | People start spamming stuff, they get whacked for harassment or spamming. |
| 07:09.53 | hp94_ | "We're"? I thought you were more of the... um... Set free and program type programmer, to run wild in green pastures etc. |
| 07:10.28 | lXl | Spammenot only ignore reports if you say exactly what gold spammers spam |
| 07:10.49 | lXl | And if you're copypasting their spam message, you're advertising for them, you're spamming anyway. |
| 07:19.11 | hp94_ | Wait, you made EVERY print() have a grey tag? Hmm, I think I forsee a new addon in the future... |
| 07:20.31 | hp94_ | Actually, is it possible to know which AddOn will load first? |
| 07:20.57 | hp94_ | For instance, if I want my AddOn to run before all the other addons, is it possible? |
| 07:24.19 | mckenziemc1 | i just tabbed in and haven't read scrollback, if there's anything pertinent, but in wow the only way to do that is putting certain characters like ! at the front of the addon name |
| 07:24.45 | mckenziemc1 | probably would work in rift too, assuming it checks folders in the order of their names |
| 07:25.29 | mckenziemc1 | ofc someone could one-up you by using !! |
| 07:31.13 | hp94_ | So it would be great to have an addon that made print = print_raw; ? |
| 07:31.21 | hp94_ | And have it listed first? |
| 07:31.33 | Dramiel | no |
| 07:31.37 | Dramiel | do not modify global scope |
| 07:31.45 | Dramiel | you will only break other addons |
| 07:32.43 | mckenziemc1 | considering the context |
| 07:33.03 | hp94_ | Well, I wish the tag was on, say, a print_tag() function and print() was left just to print like it was previously. |
| 07:33.21 | mckenziemc1 | also that print is technically supposed to be a debugging function |
| 07:33.39 | Snarty | nothing a find > replace few moments couldn't sort |
| 07:33.44 | Dramiel | then do it inside your addons.. |
| 07:37.34 | ZorbaTHut | at the moment there's no way to dictate addon load order, though that's something we plan to add with dependencies. |
| 07:39.27 | Dramiel | I don't care whether it is debugging function or dummy function.. you are just not supposed to modify those things. I expect it will do something according to documentation - not something some other developer thought that would be better. If you need to override default functions, do it in local context or create own environment |
| 07:40.33 | hp94_ | It's just a preference thing. |
| 07:40.40 | Snarty | yeah, I wouldn't be impressed trying to find a bug I don't have. I'll be open cans of whoop-ass on someone if it was 3rd party :P |
| 07:41.09 | hp94_ | Well, I can keep it out of addons if someone can tell me how to have print() work like print_raw() in my addon and not others. |
| 07:41.12 | Dramiel | No its not. Hell I'd even make default api read only if it were possible. |
| 07:41.43 | mckenziemc1 | hp94: local print = function(...) print_raw(...) end |
| 07:41.54 | Dramiel | local print = print_raw; ? |
| 07:41.55 | Dramiel | :p |
| 07:42.03 | mckenziemc1 | err yeah |
| 07:42.29 | mckenziemc1 | i usually put a custom identifier before the vararg |
| 07:43.01 | hp94_ | That works that way? |
| 07:43.12 | mckenziemc1 | which |
| 07:43.15 | hp94_ | I need to use Lua more. |
| 07:43.24 | hp94_ | It's so... not unforgiving... |
| 07:43.40 | Dramiel | or if you have more stuff like this just simply in first loaded file of your addon create environment table like MyMightyAddon = { env = { print = print_raw, print_tag = print, } }; and on top of your every other file setfenv(1, MyMightyAddon.env) |
| 07:44.03 | ZorbaTHut | do note that there's a reason print's behavior is the default - it's so people can figure out which addon is spamming them with debug output. we'd recommend separate codepaths for "this is debug output" and "this is actual addon feedback". |
| 07:44.21 | Dramiel | MyMightyAddon = { env = setmetatable({ print = print_raw, print_tag = print, }, { __index = _G }) }; - more like this the first part :p |
| 07:46.19 | mckenziemc1 | (in cases where performance matters the env method would be worse than locals) |
| 07:46.37 | *** join/#riftuidev Sunspots (~Sunspots@c213-89-195-33.bredband.comhem.se) |
| 07:47.01 | Dramiel | yes it definitely is, unless you create your environment entirely without metatable |
| 07:47.19 | mckenziemc1 | what |
| 07:47.35 | mckenziemc1 | you're still doing table lookups |
| 07:47.44 | Dramiel | yes but in smaller table |
| 07:47.55 | Dramiel | _G can be quite bloated |
| 07:48.02 | mckenziemc1 | looking up locals is faster than small tables |
| 07:48.10 | mckenziemc1 | was my point |
| 07:48.21 | Dramiel | oh that, yes thats true |
| 07:52.11 | Dramiel | its going to be interesting to see what performance will my addons have .. since I use oop like mad man :p |
| 08:01.43 | *** join/#riftuidev hp94 (4495f601@gateway/web/freenode/ip.68.149.246.1) |
| 08:01.51 | hp94 | So, um, quick question: |
| 08:03.07 | mckenziemc1 | no |
| 08:03.42 | hp94 | If I crashed on my laptop from running out of space on my D drive from making a = _G, loop a = {a,a,a,a,a,a,a,a,a,a,a,a,a,a}, would the memory have cleared if it bluescreen, and does that mean its safe to turn it back on? |
| 08:03.51 | hp94 | PURELY hypothetical btw. |
| 08:05.14 | lXl | Once in memory, always in memory. That is, if your computer is an elephant. |
| 08:05.31 | mckenziemc1 | l2 hardcap pagefile and not do stupid things? D: |
| 08:05.58 | hp94 | I actually specifically made it not hardcap, but thats beside the point |
| 08:06.05 | hp94 | I mean this is hypothetical anyways |
| 08:06.12 | mckenziemc1 | >.> <.< |
| 08:06.15 | hp94 | But still, is it safe to go back and turn on my laptop? |
| 08:06.16 | lXl | not installing anything from hp94 |
| 08:06.39 | lXl | This is PURELY hypothetical, you don't have a laptop. |
| 08:07.11 | hp94 | Well, I'd appreciate an answer. |
| 08:07.35 | mckenziemc1 | hypothetically, maybe |
| 08:08.47 | Snarty | lol |
| 08:09.11 | hp94 | I think snarty's the only one laughing in here for some reason. |
| 08:10.13 | mckenziemc1 | i don't |
| 08:10.54 | Snarty | xD |
| 08:12.16 | Dramiel | the rest of us are crying |
| 08:13.06 | Snarty | I may have shed a small tear to! |
| 08:13.38 | Snarty | lol |
| 08:14.19 | Snarty | just amused me he said hypothetical after a *Quit right before |
| 08:15.38 | *** join/#riftuidev hp94 (4495f601@gateway/web/freenode/ip.68.149.246.1) |
| 08:16.09 | hp94 | Well, I'm back on my laptop. |
| 08:16.21 | hp94 | Glad everything turned out ok. |
| 08:16.22 | mckenziemc1 | your hypothetical laptop? |
| 08:16.53 | Snarty | bites lip |
| 08:17.17 | lXl | ^Hypothetically. |
| 08:17.25 | hp94 | I thought a lot more people would think that was funny, but I think Snartys the only one having fun in this conversation. |
| 08:17.31 | hp94 | Perhaps zorbathut as well. |
| 08:17.35 | hp94 | Laughing from a distance. |
| 08:17.44 | Snarty | lol lXl |
| 08:17.48 | lXl | We're not laughing with you, we're laughing at you. |
| 08:17.56 | mckenziemc1 | :O |
| 08:17.57 | hp94 | That was the point of everything I said. |
| 08:18.25 | lXl | Everything? |
| 08:18.37 | hp94 | Although, I just tried actually doing the loop _G thing - I watched my physical memory being used by rift go from 900k > 2m > 4m > actually crashed |
| 08:18.40 | Dramiel | it always the point of stuff you say? |
| 08:18.43 | Dramiel | :p |
| 08:18.45 | lXl | Like since you first came in and asked about all that legal stuff? |
| 08:19.01 | hp94 | That was sort of 50/50 |
| 08:19.08 | lXl | Hypothetically |
| 08:19.18 | hp94 | Hypotheticall... darn it. |
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| 08:20.42 | Snarty | it's memory.. it's programming.. I've done a lot worse in the last 28 years. Break stuff, fix it. |
| 08:20.54 | hp94 | ZorbaTHut: If I, hypothetically of course, had a bug to report, would it be best to report it on the forums / through the proper means, or is just having been hear and talking about it good enough? |
| 08:21.00 | hp94 | PURELY hypothetical of course. |
| 08:21.14 | mckenziemc1 | haven't you asked this question before |
| 08:21.22 | hp94 | Hypothetically. |
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| 08:21.29 | ZorbaTHut | when I teach people how to code, I generally start by making them no longer scared of making mistakes. "Here is some code. Break it. Don't worry, it won't bite, just go break it." |
| 08:21.44 | ZorbaTHut | Forums are the best idea. That way I've got a permanent record and other people can see it's been reported. |
| 08:22.46 | TMc51 | Zorba: I sure hope you also teach them to maker a backup BEFORE they go an break it. ;) |
| 08:22.49 | Snarty | my introduction to coding hell, was "4 Out of Memory" |
| 08:23.28 | ZorbaTHut | tmc51, I don't bother with source control until they've reached a hundred lines or so |
| 08:23.40 | ZorbaTHut | before that point they're better served by learning how to unbreak their own code anyway |
| 08:24.23 | hp94 | puts on his whitehat cracking baseball cap * |
| 08:24.55 | hp94 | That sounded worse than it should have. |
| 08:24.58 | mckenziemc1 | _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ |
| 08:25.48 | ZorbaTHut | re: your bug report, if you're getting a bluescreen, that's at least largely the fault of your computer's hardware. if you did in fact just run out of disk space for virtual memory then pretty much anything could trigger that. |
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| 08:27.19 | mckenziemc1 | i would hope hes' referring to something else |
| 08:27.55 | hp94 | Well, I've got dxdiag tags and stuff just in case... |
| 08:28.08 | hp94 | mckenziemc1: Me? |
| 08:28.33 | hp94 | Also, this is another reason why I wished I was a better programmer, but I'm learning as fast as I can =S |
| 08:29.05 | TMc51 | hp94: Start with Python, IMO. That'll get you started out quite well. |
| 08:29.42 | ZorbaTHut | I personally recommend that people either start with Lua or C |
| 08:29.44 | TMc51 | Though, you might end up wanting to shoot yourself after experiencing how nesting works with it. lol |
| 08:29.57 | Dramiel | c? srsly? :p |
| 08:30.17 | ZorbaTHut | Lua for people who want to start doing things, C for people who want to learn about the intricacies of hardware |
| 08:30.31 | ZorbaTHut | some people just don't deal well with "you do this to make a string, don't worry about how strings work, they're magic". |
| 08:30.46 | Snarty | lol |
| 08:30.54 | Snarty | that'd be me |
| 08:30.55 | TMc51 | that's right, magic. A WIZARD DID IT! |
| 08:31.50 | Snarty | hence me still using Unit.Add/Remove despite how many times you recommend to me to use the Lib |
| 08:32.13 | ZorbaTHut | yep, I expect people will do that. In fairness, there are things you can only really accomplish with Unit.Add/Remove. |
| 08:32.23 | ZorbaTHut | That said, even if you're not going to use the lib, you should at least read it and understand it ;) |
| 08:32.31 | Dramiel | tbh I'd recommend c# for start.. yes you will know shit about internals but it is extremly easy to set up and people who are trying to start do stuff just want to create window with "hello world" on it :p |
| 08:32.58 | TMc51 | I tried C#. Hated it. |
| 08:33.00 | Snarty | I *may* have looked through the lib and have it open as reference, I can't confirm anything |
| 08:33.31 | Dramiel | TMc51: why? :p |
| 08:34.09 | ZorbaTHut | I like C# better than Java, personally. |
| 08:34.19 | TMc51 | Was too used to other languages. |
| 08:34.50 | TMc51 | Though, C# was the first actual language I tried learning, so that likely had something to do with it. I could probably go back to it and not be bothered much with it now, though. |
| 08:35.22 | Snarty | I never went much passed C++ |
| 08:35.35 | TMc51 | was more javascript/php/etc that I did first. more web dev than actual programming. tried c# to get into it, and just never like it. |
| 08:36.30 | Snarty | I enjoyed php when I was using it. |
| 08:36.38 | TMc51 | same |
| 08:36.45 | TMc51 | now, i can't stand it. |
| 08:36.53 | ZorbaTHut | I don't think I ever enjoyed php :P |
| 08:37.03 | Snarty | lol yeah, haven't touched it in years now |
| 08:37.03 | Dramiel | I personally hate Java.. well not really the language, but applications written in it - they just tend to have horrible nonresponsive UI.. |
| 08:37.34 | TMc51 | "knock knock" "who's there?" *20 minute pause* "Java" |
| 08:37.43 | Snarty | I've found that to Dramiel |
| 08:37.59 | Sling | webscarab.. nice tool, a shame its in java :) |
| 08:38.46 | Dramiel | good example is jDownloader.. functionality is flawless, but UI sometimes makes me want to kill myself |
| 08:40.33 | TMc51 | hmm, speaking of jdownloader, there's 95 updates I need to install for it. >.< |
| 08:42.16 | Snarty | this will be the first time I've written something that isn't compiled so no one can go "how in hells name do you know what's going on?" |
| 08:44.11 | Snarty | except for some public domain algorithms I wrote a while back |
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| 08:57.25 | hp94 | How do you change your nickname without relogging? |
| 08:57.42 | jnwhiteh | use the /nick command? |
| 09:00.54 | olodeon | <PROTECTED> |
| 09:05.55 | hp94 | I wonder if I can crash my comp if I try the _G = {_G,_G} loop... |
| 09:05.58 | hp94 | in WOW |
| 09:06.02 | hp94 | *muhahaha* |
| 09:09.58 | jnwhiteh | ... |
| 09:12.44 | *** join/#riftuidev hp94 (4495f601@gateway/web/freenode/ip.68.149.246.1) |
| 09:12.53 | hp94 | Hey everyone |
| 09:13.13 | jnwhiteh | welcome back. |
| 09:13.31 | hp94 | Hey jnwhiteh =D Whats up? |
| 09:13.41 | jnwhiteh | Not much, same as pretty much everyday |
| 09:17.22 | hp94 | Well, have a good night everyone |
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| 10:09.42 | Drecan | sup |
| 10:11.39 | hp94 | nothin |
| 10:11.46 | hp94 | no one talks in these channels |
| 10:11.54 | hp94 | Hows about this: Whats your favorite band? |
| 10:12.28 | Drecan | at the moment it would have to be Five Finger Death Punch lol, you? |
| 10:14.00 | Drecan | i'm stuck on a carrier for a couple more days 0.o thought i would stop by and see what goes on here lol |
| 10:15.40 | hp94 | I like 5fdp too |
| 10:15.46 | hp94 | Carrier? |
| 10:16.12 | Drecan | aircraft carrier i'm in the navy |
| 10:19.00 | hp94 | Really? Which military? |
| 10:19.05 | hp94 | American? |
| 10:19.10 | hp94 | Seeing as they have a decent navy |
| 10:19.14 | Drecan | yep american |
| 10:19.44 | hp94 | Neat - Canadians doing their fair share? |
| 10:19.56 | hp94 | <-Politics noob |
| 10:20.09 | Drecan | lol |
| 10:21.43 | Drecan | work calls... i'll be back later |
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| 12:03.01 | Dramiel | oh my god, why would anyone write to official bug report thread that endless loop will crash client O.o |
| 12:12.39 | hp94 | Dibs out. |
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| 13:28.50 | ZorbaBeta | in fairness, a bluescreen is kind of bad, but unless this becomes a recurring issue it's not something I want to deal with. I did verify that it halted with an out-of-memory error :D |
| 13:31.51 | Cairenn|afk | ^^ |
| 13:32.42 | Dramiel | well yea, but I bet it was bluescreening only his pc.. nowdays its really rare to encounter bluescreen errors cause by application itself |
| 13:33.58 | Dramiel | anyway - focus on addon dependencies! :p |
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| 19:03.53 | lXl | Oh hp94... you continue to amaze me. |
| 19:08.06 | nicoli_s | he really seems like he just wants to be an outcast |
| 19:15.27 | Sling | i guess im missing out on some forum, but then again i´m not i guess :) |
| 19:25.08 | lXl | "/script while true do _G = {_G,_G} end" |
| 19:25.30 | lXl | Yeah, tampering with globals and infinite loops do crash computers. |
| 19:26.16 | lXl | Bug report is for stuff that is not doing what is expected. There's only one expected result on that. |
| 19:29.17 | Morv_ | i thinks its a bad thing when ingame scripting does crash the whole game AND, as hp94 said, crashes his windows. I'd expect that the LUA-Interpreter stops that from running endless.. like it does on stack overflows |
| 19:29.56 | lXl | It's not a Rift related bug to begin with, making an infinite loop in any language is going to cause a failure somewhere. |
| 19:30.36 | Morv_ | yeah, that expected ;) |
| 19:31.32 | mckenziemc1 | next he's going to report whatever happens when you wipe _G as a bug |
| 19:31.40 | lXl | Oh dear.. |
| 19:31.48 | TMc51 | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:31.53 | Morv_ | *hrhr |
| 19:32.06 | lXl | I forget what it was, I think UIParent:StartMoving() or something in WoW caused a really odd crash |
| 19:32.16 | lXl | The screen would shake violently and freeze. |
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| 19:49.00 | sylvanaar_work | im going to start using: lUa, and luA |
| 19:49.18 | sylvanaar_work | just to be different |
| 19:49.42 | sylvanaar_work | maybe even lUA |
| 19:55.56 | mckenziemc1 | why |
| 19:56.10 | mckenziemc1 | Last Universal Ancestor is the best programmer anyway |
| 19:57.51 | lXl | I code in LUA |
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| 22:29.37 | hp94_ | Whats a good rock/metal band? |
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| 22:57.58 | nicoli_s | the mars volta |
| 22:58.18 | nicoli_s | though it is pretty progressive. so prepare for it to be weird, but so so good |
| 22:58.23 | industrial | My new rogue is called |
| 22:58.24 | industrial | Oshi |
| 22:58.38 | industrial | as in o shi- |
| 23:01.18 | hp94_ | lol |
| 23:28.14 | industrial | whats weapon damage for a bard (Cadence)? ranged? |
| 23:29.03 | seebs | I seem to recall people concluding that it depended on your build. |
| 23:29.24 | seebs | In that if you had marksman or ranger it would automatically switch to a ranged weapon, otherwise it would stick with melee damage, or something like that. |
| 23:34.02 | industrial | k |
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