| 01:38.50 | *** join/#riftuidev seebs (~seebs@74.116.16.132) |
| 01:38.50 | *** mode/#riftuidev [+v seebs] by ChanServ |
| 01:45.13 | *** join/#riftuidev ZorbaTHut (266f9ff2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.38.111.159.242) |
| 01:45.33 | ZorbaTHut | changelist posted, docs updated. :) |
| 01:46.10 | Sunspots_ | Wiiie |
| 01:53.05 | seebs | thx |
| 02:02.56 | lXl | So was there a way to get unit health now, or a list of all accepted types of Inspect.Unit.Detail()? |
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| 02:07.45 | ZorbaTHut | lxl, check the documentation for inspect.unit.detail |
| 02:07.59 | ZorbaTHut | (and I believe it's .health) |
| 02:08.30 | lXl | Oh now I see the detail. |
| 02:08.47 | ZorbaTHut | hmm, just realized it needs more detailed docs - many of the members won't show up if they're an expected value, so .health, for example, won't show up if it's equal to .healthMax |
| 02:08.49 | lXl | The results rather. |
| 02:08.50 | ZorbaTHut | should probably include that |
| 02:09.08 | lXl | So if a unit is at 100% health, .health would be nil? |
| 02:09.20 | ZorbaTHut | yep |
| 02:09.29 | ZorbaTHut | it's intended to reduce the amount of clutter in that table |
| 02:10.06 | ZorbaTHut | it only displays things if they're out of the ordinary. |
| 02:10.15 | lXl | I could see that, no point having extra stuff if its not immediately relevant. |
| 02:10.57 | lXl | I'm still wrapping my head around the differences between this API and how WoW did it, and how I have to change code in doing so. It will be nice not having a billion Unit____() for level, class, etc. |
| 02:13.25 | ZorbaTHut | Yeah, that was the intention of the .Detail() functions. I'd rather just have everything in one place. If you want info on a unit, you call Inspect.Unit.Detail, whether that's health or some crazy new status flag added in the 19th expansion pack. |
| 02:14.35 | lXl | How is that going to translate to performance? I imagine it would be more efficient? |
| 02:15.08 | ZorbaTHut | "it's complicated", I suspect |
| 02:17.09 | seebs | I really like the named table members. |
| 02:17.11 | ZorbaTHut | if you're doing a .Detail() call for a single variable, it'll probably be a lot slower |
| 02:17.36 | seebs | I think right now the big thing I'm concerned about is interactions between addon code and core UI. |
| 02:17.56 | seebs | I have this wild hope that eventually hunks of core UI will be redone as lua code so they can be more easily interacted with and/or hooked. :) |
| 02:18.32 | lXl | I imagine a lot of authors will seek to replace the UI than to hook into it, exception for stuff like AH. |
| 02:19.18 | seebs | Probably. But right now... Imagine that I wrote a unitframes mod. What would I do about the base UI's frames? |
| 02:19.36 | lXl | User disables them? |
| 02:19.44 | seebs | I guess. |
| 02:19.49 | lXl | I disabled a lot of stuff, linked them together, and slid them off screen. |
| 02:19.55 | ZorbaTHut | in any case where you'd be likely to need the information refreshed on change, we'll have events to let you know when it happens |
| 02:20.07 | ZorbaTHut | (sorry for extremely slow replies, my mom keeps calling mid-sentence :P) |
| 02:20.08 | seebs | BTW, saw a particularly brilliant post from one of the addon-haters. Since RIFT is gonna have addons, she's going to go back to WoW, which was a great game before addons ruined the community. |
| 02:20.15 | lXl | It's alright. |
| 02:20.23 | lXl | I know how that goes.. kind of. |
| 02:20.50 | ZorbaTHut | seebs, at some point in the moderately near future we'll add the way for the addon framework to move, hide, and show base UI elements, as well as pin elements relative to them |
| 02:20.59 | seebs | Cool. |
| 02:21.21 | lXl | I'm just wondering if say, HP can have a lot of events firing off at once, and polling the table each time, but I'm guessing if you are specifying health it would be not much different than if there was an equivalent to UnitHealth(). |
| 02:21.44 | seebs | I gotta say, this API is obviously incomplete, but I am liking it. It has a feel as though I'm going to spend a lot less of my time synthesizing obvious logical implications of the information the API gives me. |
| 02:21.53 | lXl | ^ |
| 02:21.54 | ZorbaTHut | lxl, Event.Unit.Health, and it'll provide the new value directly in the event |
| 02:22.10 | seebs | Some day when you feel brave, ask me about how I determined whether or not I'd gotten an item out of a mail message in WoW. I *dare* you. |
| 02:22.11 | ZorbaTHut | (still in design, actual API may not look exactly like that, but that's the idea) |
| 02:22.34 | lXl | What? So you don't have to continuously poll those types of functions anymore? |
| 02:22.38 | ZorbaTHut | seebs, I actually wrote my own little mail addon once. I did it with lots of bruteforcing and retrying. It was really awful. |
| 02:22.56 | ZorbaTHut | I can only imagine the pain involved with trying to do it in a non-bruteforce manner. |
| 02:23.07 | seebs | I had this function which examined a mail message and estimated how many mailbox update events would be generated by trying to take an item from it. |
| 02:23.33 | ZorbaTHut | lxl, that's the intention. One unfortunate side-effect of our monolithic functions is that they're relatively kind of slow, so we'll have to provide the right events so they don't need to be called a lot. |
| 02:23.36 | seebs | e.g., one event if the item is currently unread, because touching it will set the read flag. One event if the thing I'm taking is the last thing in the message. And so on. |
| 02:23.51 | seebs | Then waited for those events, roughly. |
| 02:23.57 | ZorbaTHut | seebs, ouch |
| 02:24.07 | seebs | It worked about 95% of the time. |
| 02:24.19 | ZorbaTHut | yeah, if you ever find yourself doing something like that with Rift, let me know so I can fix it :) |
| 02:24.26 | seebs | Why? Because the ONLY mailbox event was "something somewhere happened to a mailbox, maybe". |
| 02:24.49 | lXl | Yeah this is looking nice. I know there were very odd behavioural issues with some functions in WoW. More specifically, lining up combat start-end events with polling stats. The event and the request wouldn't line up correctly. |
| 02:24.54 | seebs | I sort of wonder whether it was firing the event for "the mailbox's onscreen clickable region was temporarily obscured by a mount". |
| 02:25.24 | seebs | The "did I actually cast a spell?" logic in AnnoyRP was... ugh. |
| 02:25.37 | seebs | It was insanely hard to detect "user just successfully cast an instant-cast spell". |
| 02:26.05 | seebs | I just... Man. Tables with named members so you can look up what you want. |
| 02:26.09 | ZorbaTHut | lxl, I need to sit down and write up a set of guarantees for when events will fire. The basic summary is that all necessary events will have fired by Update.Begin, but I may not provide any other guarantees |
| 02:26.30 | seebs | Hey, idle suggestion for that. What if Unit.Detail() took an optional list of values the user cares about, so it could skip others? |
| 02:26.43 | seebs | Would that be at all an improvement, or would making that list actually be worse? |
| 02:26.47 | ZorbaTHut | so if you get, say, a Buff.Add event, and you do Unit.Detail during that event, then you may find that a character's health has been changed but the Unit.Health event hasn't yet fired. |
| 02:27.03 | ZorbaTHut | seebs, I thought about that, but I think it may actually be slower than just providing everything |
| 02:27.09 | seebs | It may well. |
| 02:27.28 | ZorbaTHut | if it turns out to be a common speed issue, I'll try to come up with a solution. |
| 02:27.35 | seebs | Hmm. Might make sense to have Unit.Value("health") or the like available, for cases where you really want EXACTLY one item. |
| 02:27.45 | seebs | Hmm. |
| 02:27.48 | lXl | Those situations usually weren't that demanding for specifics, one problem I had was hiding XP and showing threat values based on combat (using oUF), I could NEVER get that to work but it could have been compounding with oUF complexity. |
| 02:27.55 | ZorbaTHut | One option is Inspect.Unit.Detail.Health(etc) |
| 02:28.21 | seebs | Question about those tables. If I do x = Inspect.Unit.Detail() and then y = Inspect.Unit.Detail()... |
| 02:28.31 | ZorbaTHut | provide the dozens of little singlepurpose functions we all know and love, but make it clear that the big detail is everything. |
| 02:28.33 | seebs | have I got two different tables with the same values in them, or two references to the same table? |
| 02:28.46 | ZorbaTHut | seebs, two different tables, at least for now |
| 02:28.49 | seebs | k. |
| 02:29.08 | seebs | As I recall, one of the most expensive parts of lua is making and deleting tables. |
| 02:29.18 | ZorbaTHut | Well, also keep in mind we're not using Lua |
| 02:29.20 | seebs | Doubtless, this information is new to you. :P |
| 02:29.21 | ZorbaTHut | we're using LuaJIT |
| 02:29.28 | seebs | True. No idea how that affects performance. |
| 02:29.35 | ZorbaTHut | Same here, besides "everything is faster". |
| 02:29.39 | seebs | I mean, presumably it's better. :) |
| 02:29.39 | lXl | How is buff efficiency looking too, iterating through buffs usually was half of a UI's resources. |
| 02:29.59 | ZorbaTHut | lxl, check out the buff events, they're roughly finalized |
| 02:30.02 | seebs | Hmm. Idle notion. What about filter functions for the big list things? |
| 02:30.26 | seebs | Something to the effect of Unit.Buff.ListIf(function blah blah blah end) |
| 02:30.32 | ZorbaTHut | I think that may again actually be slower :) Going from C to Lua or vice-versa is a significant speed hit |
| 02:30.33 | TMc51 | doesn't quite understand the differences between Lua and LuaJIT. |
| 02:30.34 | seebs | which yields those buffs for which function returned non-zero. |
| 02:30.38 | seebs | Yeah. |
| 02:30.47 | ZorbaTHut | tmc, from a user perspective, all you need to know is that luajit is faster |
| 02:31.01 | ZorbaTHut | I'll let someone else explain the details of jits, I'm heading home in a few minutes |
| 02:31.06 | seebs | LuaJIT is an implementation which compiles Lua into machine code when it encounters a given hunk of code, after which it just executes machine code. |
| 02:31.19 | TMc51 | so, from an addon dev standpoint, is it any different going from Lua to LuaJIT? |
| 02:31.19 | seebs | Should be MUCH faster. |
| 02:31.22 | lXl | You recently changed the buff detail member to be more implicit off of debuff right? |
| 02:31.30 | ZorbaTHut | lxl, true |
| 02:31.37 | seebs | Virtually no differences for us. |
| 02:31.40 | ZorbaTHut | (another item in the "don't display the expected" push) |
| 02:31.40 | seebs | Except the performance thing. |
| 02:32.18 | TMc51 | ahh, thats great to hear. means I won't have to relearn anything. |
| 02:32.21 | ZorbaTHut | tmc51, with very few exceptions, Lua and LuaJIT have identical code behavior |
| 02:32.34 | ZorbaTHut | and most of those exceptions are "lua doesn't do this, but luajit does" |
| 02:32.41 | ZorbaTHut | (yielding through pcalls, for example) |
| 02:33.26 | TMc51 | that's good. means I can pretty much port my stuff from wow and only need to really make adjustments for the api differences. |
| 02:33.38 | ZorbaTHut | Yep, it should go rather smoothly. |
| 02:34.23 | lXl | I get to learn to redo all of my stuff though, but a lot of it dealt with frames so I used oUF to avoid the whole Lua/XML business. |
| 02:41.34 | ZorbaTHut | alright I'm heading home. Enjoy the updates :) |
| 02:42.23 | Sunspots_ | Thanks and good night! |
| 02:42.37 | TMc51 | Later Zorba. |
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| 03:09.36 | *** join/#riftuidev Ravens (~Ravens@89.240.247.123) |
| 03:11.38 | Ravens | hi all |
| 03:11.48 | TMc51 | herro |
| 03:34.11 | *** join/#riftuidev Sunspots (~Sunspots@c213-89-195-33.bredband.comhem.se) |
| 03:52.21 | lXl | Oh cool, using pairs makes a much prettier readout than WoW's dumps. |
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| 04:06.13 | mckenziemc1 | >< |
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| 04:36.43 | lXl | http://i.imgur.com/SrmIX.png |
| 04:37.31 | Sunspots | hehe |
| 04:37.43 | fewyn | invites are being limited |
| 04:37.47 | fewyn | on a per hour basis |
| 04:38.03 | fewyn | the same invites sent out earlier by friends |
| 04:38.08 | fewyn | still work |
| 04:38.12 | fewyn | just have to keep trying |
| 04:38.20 | lXl | It was on Reddit. |
| 04:38.23 | fewyn | i know |
| 04:38.29 | fewyn | =p |
| 04:38.43 | fewyn | is just trying to be informative |
| 04:38.54 | lXl | You made some funny go away. :\ |
| 04:40.04 | fewyn | i'm here all weekend! |
| 04:45.32 | Cairenn | waves |
| 04:50.29 | lXl | wave |
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| 06:58.08 | Sling | hmm wtb UniqueEquip element in Items.xml containing all itemid´s that the item would conflict with (itself, or a family of unique-equip items) |
| 06:58.33 | Sling | its in the tooltip so also ´discovered´ by a player |
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| 09:53.34 | hp94 | So... |
| 09:53.42 | hp94 | Anyone here play RIFT and WoW? |
| 09:53.48 | hp94 | Or everyone into just one or the other? |
| 10:00.51 | Cairenn | I dabble around in all of them, to one degree or another |
| 10:01.19 | Cairenn | EQ, EQ2, WoW, LotRO, Rift, DDO |
| 10:01.59 | Cairenn | The only 2 that we support that I don't play at all are VG and War |
| 10:04.23 | hp94 | And War? |
| 10:04.30 | Cairenn | Warhammer |
| 10:05.37 | hp94 | So, you play WoW? |
| 10:05.47 | Cairenn | Did say that, yes :) |
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| 13:12.43 | Sunspots__ | Man, why didn't I pay attention in math class? |
| 13:28.04 | Sunspots__ | Trying to do a basic animation but it doesn't feel as obvious as I'd hope. |
| 13:28.51 | Cairenn | =/ |
| 13:30.18 | nohh | bunch of texture frames, show the first one, hide the rest, then show the next/hide previous every 1/FPS seconds? |
| 13:30.52 | Sunspots__ | I'm going for size, position and alpha |
| 13:30.57 | nohh | oic |
| 13:31.16 | Sunspots__ | Looking at some easing algorithms |
| 13:33.29 | nohh | simplest would be linear.. so at t=0 you want it to be Source, and at t=1 you want it to be Dest.. F(t) = (1-t)*Source + t*Dest |
| 13:33.54 | Sunspots__ | yup |
| 13:34.00 | nohh | t being (Now - StartTime)/TotalTime |
| 13:49.27 | Sunspots__ | how would I go about making the animation run on a set time (like, animate from a to b over c seconds) then? I'm still quite new to programming |
| 13:55.42 | nohh | when the animation begins, get the start time.. then each frame, if the animation is running, get the current time.. CurrentTime - StartTime is how far along the animation is progressed - you want to compress this into a range of [0..1], so you divide (CurrentTime - StartTime) by how long you want the animation to run (c), then use that as your 't' in the easing function |
| 13:56.25 | nohh | and if t > 1 you want to stop your animation and just use the target value (b) or whatever |
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| 14:52.04 | Sunspots | How do I make my loop run on FPS? |
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| 15:45.38 | Sunspots | aaaaaaaargh |
| 15:45.52 | Sunspots | whatäs up? |
| 15:48.14 | nohh | hm? |
| 15:53.14 | Sunspots | I'm just trying to figure out the structure, I'm still learning the basics |
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| 19:31.41 | hp94 | Why is Zorba never on anymore? |
| 19:31.52 | lXl | What? I was talking to him last night on here. |
| 19:32.47 | mckenziemc | he has a hp94 detector |
| 19:33.02 | lXl | Hah probably |
| 19:44.00 | nohh | why do you want to bother Zorba so much, would you rather he work on the API? |
| 19:44.06 | nohh | wouldn't* |
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| 20:06.27 | Kaelten | ~seen myrriddon |
| 20:06.37 | purl | i haven't seen 'myrriddon', Kaelten |
| 20:06.47 | Kaelten | bah probably typo'd |
| 20:11.20 | Kaelten | ~seen myrridonn |
| 20:11.23 | purl | Kaelten: i haven't seen 'myrridonn' |
| 20:11.57 | hp94 | mmmyridoon? |
| 20:12.25 | Kaelten | lol |
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| 20:45.33 | nohh | ~seen Myrroddin |
| 20:45.35 | purl | myrroddin <6034618e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.96.52.97.142> was last seen on IRC in channel #riftuidev, 2d 17h 21m 33s ago, saying: 'where i don't vibrate'. |
| 20:58.51 | sylvanaar | lol |
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| 21:17.33 | Kaelten | lol |
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| 22:34.29 | Cairenn | oscillates |
| 22:41.58 | mckenziemc1 | dampens Cairenn's oscillation |
| 22:42.05 | Cairenn | bah |
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| 22:50.57 | hp94 | Do you think we'll be able to get camera positions (X/Y/Z) so we can implement augmented reality? |
| 22:51.13 | hp94 | I want to make an addon that 'draws' a line on the ground from where you are to where you need to go for quests |
| 22:52.09 | TMc51 | my bet is no. |
| 22:52.50 | TMc51 | because then you'd end up with somebody porting over AVRE, and trivializing dungeons and raid content. |
| 22:54.26 | mckenziemc1 | make them unavailable in group content? |
| 22:59.06 | hp94 | Make them forcibly set visible to false on entering combat? |
| 22:59.52 | mckenziemc1 | no |
| 22:59.58 | mckenziemc1 | just make the funcs return nil |
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| 23:14.27 | hp94 | That would make it error like crazy |
| 23:19.15 | mckenziemc1 | only if the programmer doesn't know what they're doing |
| 23:31.50 | hp94 | That would make it error like crazy |
| 23:33.09 | Nobgul-bnc | echo |
| 23:40.58 | Cairenn1 | echo ho o |
| 23:46.58 | fewyn | echo echo echo echo |
| 23:47.59 | TMc51 | ohce ohce ohce ohce |
| 23:48.27 | TMc51 | or better yet |
| 23:48.30 | TMc51 | unce unce unce unce |
| 23:48.34 | hp94 | NOOOOOOOOOOOOO |
| 23:49.40 | TMc51 | http://www.explosm.net/comics/987/ |
| 23:57.19 | fewyn | boom goes the dynamite |
