| 00:01.14 | Dentoid | "Hmm, tastes like chicken." |
| 02:10.28 | CIA | micah committed revision 4058: Output task headings immediately if they're important enough, so slow-running tasks won't appear to be dead until their first progress report. |
| 02:29.09 | CIA | micah committed revision 4059: Renamed all references to "GUI" to "UI", since the command line interface isn't exactly graphical |
| 02:33.35 | CIA | micah committed revision 4060: Setting svn:ignore property on all SCons files |
| 03:26.25 | CIA | micah committed revision 4061: Reworked the mirror speed testing a bit to give more predictable results |
| 03:41.06 | *** join/#picogui merlin262 (~andrew@crtntx1-ar1-4-60-252-139.crtntx1.dsl-verizon.net) |
| 03:42.37 | CIA | micah committed revision 4062: Move the python version check to above all the imports, to avoid extra warning messgaes when running PGBuild with python 2.1 |
| 03:45.33 | CIA | micah committed revision 4063: Fixing some stupid mistakes |
| 04:25.41 | CIA | micah committed revision 4064: Added a proper warning message for dead mirrors, removed dead mirrors from the sources list |
| 04:33.49 | CIA | micah committed revision 4065: Refactoring code from PGBuild.CommandLine into PGBuild.Main and PGBuild.UI |
| 05:35.00 | CIA | micah committed revision 4066: More UI refactoring- preparing to rename several files |
| 05:39.41 | CIA | micah committed revision 4067: Renaming all the PGBuild.UI.* modules to be more consistent |
| 06:20.10 | CIA | micah committed revision 4068: Finished refactoring UI code |
| 06:21.38 | CIA | micah committed revision 4069: Default to the 'text' UI, not 'none' |
| 06:21.45 | merlin262 | scanline: working on pgui2? |
| 06:21.54 | scanline | well, pgbuild |
| 06:22.14 | merlin262 | ahh |
| 06:22.19 | scanline | pgbuild will be used in pg1 and pg2, and whatever else anyone feels like using it for |
| 06:22.28 | merlin262 | cool |
| 06:22.33 | merlin262 | are you using scons? |
| 06:22.37 | scanline | yes |
| 06:22.40 | merlin262 | Nifty! |
| 06:22.55 | scanline | pgbuild is a layer on top of scons that should add a lot of things, like package management, configuration, multiple front-ends... |
| 06:23.01 | scanline | automatic package downloading :) |
| 06:23.18 | merlin262 | ahhh |
| 06:23.33 | merlin262 | seems like a bit much for a build system |
| 06:23.42 | scanline | how so? |
| 06:23.48 | scanline | I think it's just what's necessary |
| 06:23.52 | merlin262 | Wait a second |
| 06:24.06 | merlin262 | There's another project that's really similar |
| 06:24.16 | scanline | the packaging and automatic downloading is becoming necessary since there are so many optional packages. it frees us from having to worry about everyone downloading any optional feature we add |
| 06:24.56 | merlin262 | yea, I found it |
| 06:25.02 | merlin262 | maybe it'll give you a few ideas: |
| 06:25.18 | merlin262 | http://www.a-a-p.org/ |
| 06:25.34 | njs | they're writing a make replacement too, with funky non-python syntax, though :-) |
| 06:26.05 | merlin262 | lol |
| 06:26.07 | scanline | hmm, interesting |
| 06:26.12 | scanline | though I like SCons' approach to building better |
| 06:26.22 | scanline | and I don't see anything about configuration in aap yet |
| 06:26.39 | njs | eek, anyone who says "Includes the power of Python script" needs to be larted. |
| 06:26.55 | scanline | complex compile-time configuration management is the main reason PGBuild exists |
| 06:26.56 | merlin262 | njs: what's so bad about that? |
| 06:27.22 | njs | "Python script" sounds like a MS marketing name |
| 06:27.27 | merlin262 | ahhh |
| 06:27.27 | scanline | njs: they must mean they have an #include <Python.h> somewhere |
| 06:27.36 | merlin262 | lol |
| 06:27.41 | merlin262 | I see what you mean |
| 06:28.08 | njs | I think it's actually written in python, and they mean they have the ability to run arbitrary python code in some ways |
| 06:28.25 | merlin262 | actually, I think AAP is extremely close to what your trying to do scanline |
| 06:28.32 | merlin262 | But, frankly, the syntax is making me ill |
| 06:28.44 | scanline | merlin262: doesn't look like it to me... |
| 06:29.10 | scanline | this is closer to what OpenEmbedded is doing |
| 06:29.36 | merlin262 | hmm |
| 06:29.58 | merlin262 | well, that lack configuration, but they do provide package installation |
| 06:30.17 | scanline | package installation is very minor in PGBuild... configuration is the big focus |
| 06:30.29 | njs | maybe it's possible to write a reasonable interface to aap that replaces the syntax; I dunno. |
| 06:30.45 | njs | I _really really_ like that SCons is so close to being not a build tool, but a library for writing build tools. |
| 06:30.48 | merlin262 | njs: naw, bolt ons are the suck |
| 06:30.58 | scanline | njs: indeed |
| 06:31.11 | merlin262 | Yes, scons is a very nice package |
| 06:31.14 | scanline | njs: they even have that convenient scons-local package that makes it easy to drop the SCons module into your own code |
| 06:31.43 | merlin262 | although, only for the build |
| 06:31.51 | njs | scanline: yeah. And now that I yelled at them, it's easy to install it in your standard python library path, too :-) |
| 06:32.16 | scanline | :) |
| 06:32.45 | scanline | I'm bundling a good number of modules with PGBuild at this point... |
| 06:33.00 | njs | I'm beginning to think that while the clean syntax etc. are nice, the biggest advantage of python is that every program, almost automatically, is really a library in disguise. |
| 06:33.13 | scanline | SCons, PyXPath, Optik, tarfile, and Python 2.2's XML module (to work around a gentoo bug :-/ ) |
| 06:33.21 | scanline | exactly |
| 06:33.39 | captain_proton | star trek time! |
| 06:33.41 | scanline | with python it's so easy to write reusable code that people actually do it :) |
| 06:34.35 | merlin262 | That and the code documents itself |
| 06:34.50 | captain_proton | merlin262: arguable |
| 06:34.56 | captain_proton | but it documents itself more than, say, asm |
| 06:35.06 | scanline | depending on how liberally you use doc strings... |
| 06:35.08 | merlin262 | well, documentation strings |
| 06:35.18 | merlin262 | where a very good idea |
| 06:35.28 | scanline | it's nice to be able to just feed a module into help() and get a manpage-like thing :) |
| 06:35.40 | njs | I can see a lot of convergence going on here; just imagine, scons loading syunit which loads qmtest and synopsis (which itself loads omniidl), then scons loads qmtest itself to run the tests, tests results being reported on IRC via twisted and any regressions dropped in a roundup database... this is totally plausible, and yet none of the parts are actually designed to work together like that! |
| 06:35.48 | njs | (well, okay, twisted is supposed to be a library.) |
| 06:36.12 | scanline | :) |
| 06:36.32 | scanline | then you'd have something nice and annoying like CIA for #fresco |
| 06:38.26 | captain_proton | there goes the expendable extra |
| 06:44.56 | merlin262 | woa, taking the time to configure and build a mozilal build yourself can yield some interesting results |
| 06:48.33 | captain_proton | like insanity? |
| 06:48.51 | merlin262 | naw, I got a really nice gtk2 enabled build |
| 06:49.40 | captain_proton | indeed |
| 06:49.48 | captain_proton | i used to do that, but now gentoo does it for me |
| 06:50.35 | merlin262 | bah |
| 06:50.48 | merlin262 | gentoo, the only linux distribution buggier than win 95! |
| 06:51.35 | scanline | heh |
| 06:51.42 | njs | it was decided that always singled out students carrying guns for special attention led to self-esteem issues |
| 06:51.45 | scanline | gentoo does have bugs, but I've had more problems with debian than gentoo |
| 06:52.31 | merlin262 | Debian never decided that half my hard drive needed to be uninstalled for some reason |
| 06:52.34 | captain_proton | and the rest of the money goes toward embedding mental detectors in our kids... |
| 06:52.48 | merlin262 | "emerge rpm" |
| 06:53.21 | merlin262 | I said "emerge rpm", and the next thing I know, half of /usr/bin is unemerged |
| 06:53.22 | njs | what was that, a 4T magnet? |
| 06:53.36 | scanline | =) |
| 06:54.24 | merlin262 | I've got X Men on DVD. :) |
| 06:54.41 | merlin262 | hehe |
| 06:54.49 | scanline | stop laughing, you're dead |
| 06:55.12 | merlin262 | hahaha! |
| 06:55.16 | scanline | oh no! |
| 06:55.49 | merlin262 | sleep is for the weak willed |
| 06:56.24 | scanline | hopefully |
| 07:18.47 | scanline | wahoo, pgbuild can now update a local copy of a package and merge its configuration |
| 07:19.11 | scanline | and it has this nifty untar-on-the-fly while it downloads :) |
| 07:20.04 | CIA | micah committed revision 4070: Implemented PGBuild.Package.merge() |
| 07:20.37 | scanline | it has this neat hierarchial task thingy that lets you assign "unimportance" values to tasks and individual messages |
| 07:20.55 | scanline | then the hierarchy collapses intelligently according to the verbosity you're reporting at |
| 07:21.52 | captain_proton | oooooo |
| 07:22.08 | captain_proton | scanline: you madman |
| 07:22.23 | scanline | micah@yoshi pgbuild $ ./build -v |
| 07:22.23 | scanline | <PROTECTED> |
| 07:22.23 | scanline | <PROTECTED> |
| 07:22.23 | scanline | <PROTECTED> |
| 07:22.23 | scanline | <PROTECTED> |
| 07:22.24 | scanline | <PROTECTED> |
| 07:22.44 | scanline | hmm, this needs a --nuke option |
| 07:25.29 | captain_proton | Optik? |
| 07:25.36 | scanline | spiffy python command line parsing module |
| 07:25.53 | scanline | SCons uses it, and I think it's part of the Python 2.3 standard library |
| 07:26.02 | captain_proton | ooo |
| 07:26.09 | scanline | http://optik.sourceforge.net |
| 07:29.02 | njs | doesn't seem that mad to me; it looks like most logging/tracing frameworks I've seen, actually, at least from what he's described so far :-) |
| 07:29.38 | scanline | well, if you want something to call me a madman for, look at some of the command line processing code.... |
| 07:29.55 | captain_proton | njs: oh i'm not saying his designs are bad, quite the opposite |
| 07:30.01 | captain_proton | its just...he's on quite a roll |
| 07:30.05 | scanline | PGBuild has a little three-phase bootstrapping process where it collects data into a big XML tree |
| 07:30.13 | scanline | and that includes the command line options... |
| 07:30.32 | scanline | so then after that it refers to all command line options with XPaths |
| 07:31.21 | scanline | <PROTECTED> |
| 07:31.21 | scanline | <PROTECTED> |
| 07:31.21 | scanline | <PROTECTED> |
| 07:31.37 | njs | that's mildly mad |
| 07:31.41 | scanline | >:) |
| 07:32.18 | captain_proton | hehe |
| 07:32.21 | njs | probably not as mad as the parser generator I've been playing with that uses metaclasses to generate new parser types on the fly, but mad nonetheless |
| 07:32.30 | scanline | but then everything from bootstrapping paths to package descriptions are in one place, with a consistent addressing scheme and a way to dump it all to disk for debugging |
| 07:34.21 | scanline | hehe |
| 07:34.53 | scanline | metaclasses... is this an actual feature of python, or just a funny way of fiddling with class attributes? |
| 07:35.07 | njs | yes, it's an actual feature of python |
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| 07:35.36 | njs | if you say class Foo: ..., then you define a callable object "Foo" which acts as a factory for objects of type Foo. |
| 07:35.54 | njs | the variable "Foo" has type "type" (a built-in). |
| 07:36.18 | njs | But in 2.2+, you can subclass type, and make "Foo" be of your custom type. |
| 07:37.30 | njs | (I guess as usual in python, you technically don't have to subclass type, and could instead implement something that supports type's interface. But that would probably be silly.) |
| 07:38.12 | scanline | hmm, cool |
| 07:38.15 | scanline | http://www.python.org/doc/essays/metaclasses/meta-vladimir.txt |
| 07:39.58 | njs | http://www.python.org/2.2.1/descrintro.html is maybe the best place to start |
| 07:40.14 | njs | though I haven't read that link you just posted, so maybe it's better :-) |
| 07:40.30 | scanline | nah, I doubt it |
| 07:40.32 | scanline | this looks better |
| 07:41.00 | scanline | I've seen lalo using some of this stuff, but haven't got around to decyphering it all yet :) |
| 07:41.08 | njs | wince: >>> a == b # Is 'a' the same object as 'b'? |
| 07:41.22 | scanline | hehe |
| 07:43.45 | njs | yeah, that little article is pretty useless, I think. Read Guido :-) |
| 07:44.55 | captain_proton | eek |
| 07:44.57 | captain_proton | i should get to bed |
| 07:45.09 | scanline | g'night |
| 08:07.11 | scanline | wow... |
| 08:07.17 | scanline | python 2.2.1's properties are really neat |
| 08:07.20 | njs | yeah |
| 08:36.06 | scanline | hmm... ESR presented a set module on python-dev, and started a long discussion about what "batteries included" means exactly :) |
| 08:41.19 | CIA | micah committed revision 4071: Including the 'maplist' module for set operations |
| 08:41.27 | scanline | yay, yet another module sucked into the build-dev tree |
| 08:51.32 | CIA | micah committed revision 4072: Implemented the --nuke option, cleaned up PGBuild.UI.None.Interface.run() |
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| 09:13.29 | *** join/#picogui njs (njs@12-208-7-173.client.attbi.com) |
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| 10:36.11 | CIA | micah committed revision 4076: Normalize the grammar and capitalization in our command line option descriptions |
| 10:40.24 | *** join/#picogui Dentoid (Dentoid@h242n1fls35o814.telia.com) |
| 10:40.27 | Dentoid | Hey |
| 10:40.31 | scanline | hi |
| 10:41.31 | CIA | micah committed revision 4077: Override Optik's default help messages for more consistent grammar and capitalization |
| 10:53.24 | CIA | micah committed revision 4078: Changed class hierarchy of Repository classes, changed all PGBuild objects to use python 2.2 new-style classes |
| 11:14.50 | CIA | micah committed revision 4079: Curses frontend is partially functional |
| 11:28.35 | scanline | shower time! |
| 11:56.05 | CIA | micah committed revision 4080: Users can now add custom configuration to their ~/.pgbuild directory, to be loaded before command line options. |
| 11:57.34 | scanline | bbl |
| 12:28.29 | njs | all new-style classes? heh. |
| 12:28.35 | njs | so much for compatibility :-) |
| 14:37.57 | scan[screen] | njs: there were already several other things that needed 2.2 |
| 14:38.21 | scan[screen] | so empty here... |
| 14:38.56 | scan[screen] | yyyyep... nobody responded to my bug report, and nobody's here yet |
| 14:53.55 | *** join/#picogui lalo (~lalo@200.203.12.232) |
| 15:10.23 | *** join/#picogui Oktal (~mat@pc1-rdng3-5-cust219.winn.cable.ntl.com) |
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| 15:38.24 | lalo | hmm |
| 15:38.47 | *** join/#picogui gonkulator (~brandon@164.47.127.107) |
| 15:45.20 | lalo | ibot: seen scan[screen] |
| 15:45.20 | | scan[screen] is currently on #picogui (3d 21h 25m 22s). Has said a total of 3 messages. Is idling for 1h 6m 24s |
| 15:45.26 | lalo | ibot: seen scanline |
| 15:45.26 | | scanline is currently on #picogui (20h 35m 11s) #elinux (20h 35m 11s) #openembedded (20h 35m 11s) #bzflag (20h 35m 11s). Has said a total of 327 messages. Is idling for 3h 47m 52s |
| 15:49.08 | merlin262 | hey lalo |
| 15:49.19 | lalo | hi merlin262 :-) |
| 15:52.35 | gonkulator | hey merlin262 |
| 15:52.36 | gonkulator | hi lalo |
| 15:52.46 | lalo | and hi gonkulator |
| 15:55.32 | scan[screen] | hi |
| 15:56.35 | lalo | hi scan[screen] |
| 15:56.45 | lalo | congrats on having work then :-) |
| 15:56.53 | scan[screen] | :) |
| 15:57.10 | lalo | I'm doing those incantations to tab side on lucid, it looks great except for the tab itself |
| 15:57.21 | lalo | but I can bother you for help later when you're home |
| 15:57.28 | scan[screen] | ok |
| 16:21.19 | *** join/#picogui Talez (~talez@talez.arach.net.au) |
| 16:31.18 | *** join/#picogui lalo (~lalo@200.203.12.232) |
| 17:27.58 | CIA | micah committed revision 4081: Run svn via /usr/bin/env in svn_snapshot.sh so it's friendly to cron's PATH that doesn't include /usr/local/bin where my svn is installed. |
| 17:59.03 | scan[screen] | prot-work: I'm going to need the PIC programmer, UV eraser, and some PIC12C509As on friday |
| 17:59.16 | scan[screen] | prot-work: preferably some EPROM and some OTP if you have them |
| 17:59.27 | captain_proton | scan[screen]: i'm here today :) |
| 17:59.33 | scan[screen] | oh, ok |
| 17:59.35 | captain_proton | scan[screen]: lemme look |
| 17:59.57 | scan[screen] | we could be sending one into space :) |
| 18:00.01 | captain_proton | i don't have any OTP chips |
| 18:00.18 | scan[screen] | that's fine' |
| 18:03.16 | captain_proton | you may want to remind me thurs. night :) |
| 18:04.22 | scan[screen] | k |
| 18:23.19 | captain_proton | lalo/scan[screen]: you there? |
| 18:23.32 | lalo | I am |
| 18:23.51 | captain_proton | ooh good |
| 18:23.55 | captain_proton | first, a trivial question |
| 18:24.03 | captain_proton | how does one change the logo on a plone site? |
| 18:24.38 | lalo | upload logo.jpg to portal_skins/custom, or customize the "header" template |
| 18:24.54 | lalo | there is a #plone, you know? :-) |
| 18:31.56 | lalo | . . . |
| 18:32.53 | captain_proton | AttributeError: height (Also, an error occurred while attempting to render the standard error message.) |
| 18:33.24 | lalo | ah |
| 18:33.34 | lalo | you must have created a "File" object - you need "Image" |
| 18:33.59 | captain_proton | aha |
| 18:34.48 | captain_proton | ooh cute |
| 18:34.54 | captain_proton | ok, now the hard one |
| 18:35.28 | captain_proton | i've got the zope server on :8080 because a zope guy told me ZServer is too insecure (which i believe) to run publically |
| 18:35.49 | captain_proton | got a quick set of instructions for getting the web root to point to the plone site on the zope server? |
| 18:37.05 | lalo | insecure? |
| 18:37.12 | lalo | that's bs. |
| 18:37.52 | lalo | but to answer both questions - the best setup performance-wise is to use mod_proxy or mod_cache |
| 18:38.05 | captain_proton | he pointed out that it has no length limit on a a POST request |
| 18:38.39 | lalo | I'm not an apache guru but IIRC one of these is 1.x and the other is 2.x |
| 18:38.56 | lalo | or, if you want to use that server for zope only, squid would be even better |
| 18:39.16 | lalo | set up squid as "reverse proxy" |
| 18:40.38 | lalo | I pasted our apache setup fragment on a private query |
| 18:41.00 | captain_proton | i'm just gonna move to that query so as not to further pollute this channel |
| 18:42.10 | lalo | ok |
| 18:57.22 | scan[screen] | ooh, MPLAB 6.20 supports the PIC12 family |
| 19:30.53 | captain_proton | http://dlc-www.colorado.edu/ <-- ploned |
| 19:39.31 | file | nifty |
| 20:12.35 | scan[screen] | cute |
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| 20:25.32 | lalo | hmm |
| 20:25.45 | lalo | gaim-irc deals very crappilly with netsplits |
| 20:26.21 | lalo | I have my own mp3 player and my own window manager, I should travel the rest of the path to total nerdness and write my own IRC client :-P |
| 20:27.50 | lalo | twisted and picogui |
| 21:03.46 | captain_proton | hehe |
| 21:03.59 | captain_proton | does your own mp3 player do oggs? :) |
| 21:10.47 | lalo | yes |
| 21:11.11 | captain_proton | what was your reasoning behind writing it? |
| 21:11.24 | captain_proton | (i had a -very- good reason for mine :P) |
| 21:25.11 | lalo | ah |
| 21:25.23 | lalo | I couldn't find anything as minimalist as I wanted :-) |
| 21:25.49 | lalo | I don't really like the xmms tray icon (or was it an applet?)... rythmbox is great but it keeps crashing |
| 21:26.12 | lalo | I found I was quite often just using "mpg231 -Z ~/musica/mp3/**.mp3" |
| 21:28.29 | captain_proton | heh |
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