| 01:24.22 | *** join/#openmoko apt (ibot@rikers.org) |
| 01:24.22 | *** topic/#openmoko is Openmoko Mobile Phone Hardware users | Developers channel #openmoko-cdevel | German folks channel #openmoko-de | New Users read http://wiki.openmoko.org + http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html | chanlogs: ~logs | distro-specific channels: #qtmoko, #android-on-freerunner, #openmoko-debian |
| 01:24.22 | *** mode/#openmoko [+v apt] by ChanServ |
| 04:08.55 | *** join/#openmoko amarsh04 (~amarsh04@118.211.97.108) |
| 05:31.34 | *** join/#openmoko Q-Master^Work (~q-master@217.175.38.170) |
| 05:53.52 | *** join/#openmoko wd (wd@wd.eblan.it) |
| 05:55.35 | *** join/#openmoko Q-Master^Work (~q-master@217.175.38.170) |
| 07:50.23 | *** join/#openmoko wd (wd@wd.eblan.it) |
| 08:27.56 | *** join/#openmoko ^wd^ (wd@wd.eblan.it) |
| 08:53.27 | *** join/#openmoko geaaru (~geaaru@host170-152-static.43-88-b.business.telecomitalia.it) |
| 09:37.30 | *** join/#openmoko ^wd^ (~wd@wd.eblan.it) |
| 10:52.03 | *** join/#openmoko dustinm` (~dustinm@68.ip-149-56-14.net) |
| 12:53.24 | *** join/#openmoko wd (wd@wd.eblan.it) |
| 13:16.05 | *** join/#openmoko wd (wd@wd.eblan.it) |
| 13:20.43 | *** join/#openmoko Johnny_ (1f11fc7c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.31.17.252.124) |
| 13:21.44 | Johnny_ | Hello. We have an open source project and want to apply for USB VID/PID. We use generated code under the following license. Is this ok: http://www.st.com/content/ccc/resource/legal/legal_agreement/license_agreement/de/fc/f7/32/a0/8b/4f/db/ultimate-liberty-v2.txt/files/ultimate-liberty-v2.txt/jcr:content/translations/en.ultimate-liberty-v2.txt |
| 13:33.00 | PaulFertser | Johnny_: on non-free hardware? |
| 13:33.52 | PaulFertser | Johnny_: I think the 4th clause clearly makes the software non-fre. |
| 13:33.54 | *** join/#openmoko wd (wd@wd.eblan.it) |
| 13:34.55 | Johnny_ | The USB device hardware itself is bought from ebay. Do you know the "Blue Pill" board? |
| 13:36.07 | PaulFertser | Johnny_: yeah, I do :) |
| 13:36.28 | PaulFertser | Johnny_: are you using cubemx to make code for it? |
| 13:36.38 | Johnny_ | The project is generated with STM32CubeMX, our extensions are GPL. |
| 13:37.10 | PaulFertser | Johnny_: I'm not a lawyer but I have doubts you can really consider the resulting work to be free software. |
| 13:37.58 | PaulFertser | btw, have you considered using stm32plus or libopencm3 or https://japaric.github.io/blue-pill/blue_pill/ instead? |
| 13:38.46 | Johnny_ | No, I did not yet know these. |
| 13:39.46 | PaulFertser | My personal understanding is that using old ST periph libraries or newer HAL/cubemx etc. make resulting firmware non-free because it can't be legally used on other microcontrollers. |
| 13:40.05 | PaulFertser | So it seems your project is neither free hardware nor free software at the moment, unfortunately. |
| 13:42.40 | Johnny_ | The conditions on openmoko wiki states e.g. "the firmware/software running on your USB device is Free / Open Source software..." |
| 13:42.48 | Johnny_ | I read this as Free -or- Open Source software. Not Free -and- Open Source software. Am I wrong? |
| 13:42.58 | PaulFertser | Your understanding is correct. |
| 13:43.16 | PaulFertser | btw, pid.codes require both |
| 13:44.14 | Johnny_ | openmoko wiki: "By applying for an Openmoko Product ID, you acknowledge that either ..." |
| 13:44.21 | Johnny_ | "..either.." |
| 13:44.43 | PaulFertser | Johnny_: yes, your understanding is correct, free software firmware is enough |
| 13:45.07 | Johnny_ | You mean Free -or- Open Source software. |
| 13:45.53 | PaulFertser | I mean Free software or Free hardware. |
| 13:46.04 | PaulFertser | I personally do not use the term "open source". |
| 13:46.12 | PaulFertser | I think it's too confusing to be useful. |
| 13:46.31 | Johnny_ | Ok. But openmoko wiki uses "open source software". |
| 13:46.36 | PaulFertser | Johnny_: oh, I understand what you are getting at. |
| 13:46.56 | Johnny_ | Our project is "open source software". |
| 13:47.36 | PaulFertser | Johnny_: there's https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_Source_Initiative and they coined the term and the wiki page uses this term according to their definition. |
| 13:47.38 | Johnny_ | ...there is also an extra hardware device attached to the Blue Pill. |
| 13:48.28 | PaulFertser | Johnny_: so, is your software fitting https://opensource.org/osd ? |
| 13:50.06 | *** join/#openmoko ^wd^ (~wd@wd.eblan.it) |
| 13:51.27 | Johnny_ | You mean the problem could be "6. No Discrimination Against Fields of Endeavor" ? |
| 13:51.48 | PaulFertser | And 8 and 10 |
| 13:52.26 | Johnny_ | .. of course |
| 13:53.34 | PaulFertser | So you see how "open source" is confusing. On first glance, it seems to mean one thing, but then once you start reading the OSI website it becomes way more strict. |
| 13:55.56 | Johnny_ | That only says that it might be not "OSI-Approved". There are "FSF-Recognized or DFSG-Approved Free / Open Source software license" possibilities as well. Do you know if they essentially say the same? Or do you have their URLs? |
| 13:57.57 | PaulFertser | https://wiki.debian.org/DFSGLicenses |
| 13:58.24 | PaulFertser | http://www.gnu.org/licenses/license-list.html |
| 13:59.16 | *** join/#openmoko ^wd^ (wd@85.159.33.226) |
| 14:01.28 | Johnny_ | ... DFSG: 8. License must not be specific to a product. |
| 14:06.12 | Johnny_ | ... fsf.org: "The Free Software Definition" - "The freedom to run the program as you wish" |
| 14:06.31 | Johnny_ | ... |
| 14:09.24 | PaulFertser | Johnny_: you might want to port your code to a better library. The one provided by ST is of really low quality anyway. |
| 14:10.52 | Johnny_ | That may be true. But I would say the code provided by ST is good/pro quality. |
| 14:13.32 | Johnny_ | The openmoko wiki states another possibility: open hardware project. We have a little extra hardware connected to the Blue Pill. "Eagle" schematics are provided. |
| 14:14.02 | PaulFertser | But firmware is running on the non-free part, this is problematic. |
| 14:15.05 | PaulFertser | Probably the others will decide that your project is ok for the conditions given, not sure. |
| 14:15.33 | Johnny_ | Could it be "Open Source Hardware" connected to a Blue Pill running the ST libraries? And the USB VID/PID is requested for the Blue Pill? |
| 14:16.01 | PaulFertser | I think this one is for the Harald himself to judge. |
| 14:16.17 | Johnny_ | "By applying for an Openmoko Product ID, you acknowledge that either ..." |
| 14:16.43 | Johnny_ | May I ask how I can contact Harald? |
| 14:18.02 | PaulFertser | Johnny_: http://laforge.gnumonks.org/contact/ I think you can write an email to the usb-id mailing list and mention all the important details there and Cc Harald there. |
| 14:18.18 | *** join/#openmoko Wuzzy (~Wuzzy@p5790E6DD.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 14:20.32 | Johnny_ | Harald is behind the openmoko project? He decides if the USB VID/PID is provided? |
| 14:23.50 | PaulFertser | Johnny_: http://laforge.gnumonks.org/blog/20120521-open_registry_for_usb_and_mac_addrs/ |
| 14:24.07 | Johnny_ | Thank you. |
| 14:24.24 | PaulFertser | Johnny_: good luck with your project! |
| 15:19.15 | *** join/#openmoko wd (wd@wd.eblan.it) |
| 16:20.22 | *** join/#openmoko Q-Master^Work (~q-master@217.175.38.170) |
| 17:19.33 | *** join/#openmoko wd (wd@wd.eblan.it) |