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| 13:42.33 | aijs | i bought a openmoko to run 100% free software on it. Where can i get the fully free baseband for ti-calypso from? I only see this page here: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Flashing_the_GSM_Firmware |
| 13:46.28 | JiiKoo | There is a project called Osmocom that develops free baseband. Their free baseband is called OsmocomBB and it supports Neo FreeRunner. The website is http://osmocom.org/projects/baseband. |
| 13:53.35 | aijs | JiiKoo: what have happened with this project? https://www.freecalypso.org/freerunner.html |
| 13:57.32 | JiiKoo | I don't know. I'm not very familiar with these projects. |
| 13:57.50 | JiiKoo | But there seems to be activity: https://www.freecalypso.org/pipermail/community |
| 13:58.27 | JiiKoo | https://www.freecalypso.org/pipermail/community/2016-June/000224.html seems to be active ⺠|
| 13:59.03 | JiiKoo | So apparently there are two choices, FreeCalypso and Osmocom |
| 14:01.07 | aijs | the baseband part does not depend on the firmware itself? I can run SHR, ... , with each free baseband? |
| 14:04.10 | aijs | Is there any active development on any gui-firmware? SHR is the latest? |
| 14:04.47 | JiiKoo | I guess that it doesn't depend on the operating system, but I'm not sure |
| 14:06.23 | aijs | what baseband did you use? Does it support normal, modern A5/3 encryption? |
| 14:06.23 | PaulFertser | FreeCalypso is not free firmware, it's based on illegally leaked sources. |
| 14:07.07 | JiiKoo | aijs, I'm using the default firmware, I don't know what it supports |
| 14:07.11 | JiiKoo | I just got this phone too |
| 14:08.05 | aijs | how many GTA01 have been build? I have never seen one physically. |
| 14:10.16 | aijs | how can i create a username for the wiki? |
| 14:10.33 | aijs | and when would the wiki/whole server switch to https? |
| 14:10.53 | JiiKoo | aijs, 10 000 GTA02 have been built but there doesn't seem to be information about GTA01 manufacturing |
| 14:11.17 | PaulFertser | The project is essentially dead, the community is spread out, why care about switching to https? |
| 14:11.53 | aijs | PaulFertser: because i dont want that someone can inject malicious code into my http traffic when i browse the wiki |
| 14:13.25 | PaulFertser | aijs: well, that's understandable... |
| 14:15.37 | aijs | JiiKoo: did you know how the hardware revisions split those 10000 ? |
| 14:16.21 | aijs | for exampe how many GTA02-A7++ have been produced? |
| 14:16.38 | JiiKoo | aijs, nope, not specified |
| 14:16.44 | JiiKoo | here is the source: http://lists.openmoko.org/nabble.html#nabble-td2103754 |
| 14:18.32 | aijs | 10000 on 01.2009. Maybe more until end... |
| 14:20.48 | JiiKoo | yeah, maybe |
| 14:22.11 | aijs | PaulFertser: have you used freecalypso(opensource) or osmocom(FLOSS) as a replacement? What are your results? |
| 14:25.38 | PaulFertser | aijs: freecalypso should be about the same as stock firmware. osmocom is not really usable for a phone, it's great for experiments with GSM. I have used neither. |
| 14:26.11 | aijs | does the upstream u-boot support the openmoko without patches? |
| 14:27.15 | PaulFertser | I can't tell as I use Qi. |
| 14:29.54 | aijs | When i flash a bad bootloader, did i have to open up the device and have to (in worst case) solder on the PCB? |
| 14:31.41 | aijs | i have read about devirginator but does it really work when there is no bootloader any more on the device? |
| 14:32.23 | JiiKoo | There are two bootloaders, one in flash memory and one in a little read-only-memory as a backup. |
| 14:32.37 | JiiKoo | So it's hard to brick. |
| 14:33.46 | aijs | JiiKoo: ah, nice. Just as a note: the best solution i think have the BBB(beagle bone black). When you press a button the ASIC search for a bootloader on the sd-card - unbrickable :) |
| 14:34.10 | JiiKoo | cool |
| 14:34.55 | JiiKoo | PaulFertser, how/why is OsmocomBB not really usable for a phone? |
| 14:35.43 | PaulFertser | aijs: you can always reflash gta02 because NOR bootloader is not easy to damage. |
| 14:36.26 | PaulFertser | JiiKoo: it's not implementing all of the GSM stack on Calypso itself |
| 14:36.54 | aijs | PaulFertser: why did the people here use a second bootloader when there is already a bootloader in the device? |
| 14:37.14 | JiiKoo | aijs, there are two by default |
| 14:37.30 | aijs | JiiKoo: cant you just remove the second? |
| 14:37.39 | JiiKoo | yes |
| 14:37.40 | PaulFertser | aijs: the one in NOR flash is old and buggy. But works ok to reflash NAND bootloader. |
| 14:40.58 | aijs | this is the latest SHR binary available? http://build.shr-project.org/shr-core-staging/141/images/om-gta02/ |
| 14:40.59 | JiiKoo | PaulFertser, so how does not implementing all of the GSM stack affect performance practically? |
| 14:41.16 | JiiKoo | like the most common problems |
| 14:41.54 | PaulFertser | JiiKoo: I think nobody even tried using OsmocomBB on gta02 for a regular cellphone function. |
| 14:42.12 | PaulFertser | JiiKoo: and it would drain battery like mad |
| 14:42.32 | JiiKoo | PaulFertser, why the drain? |
| 14:42.43 | aijs | Arent the binary images signed |
| 14:43.03 | aijs | and without https - i cant prove what i am getting. it could be anything ... |
| 14:43.07 | PaulFertser | JiiKoo: optimised firmware running on calypso while main SoC is sleeping vs. research prototypes running on SoC all the time. |
| 14:43.29 | PaulFertser | aijs: regarding SHR, you'll have to wait for someone from SHR to answer. |
| 14:43.45 | aijs | PaulFertser: what OS are you using? |
| 14:44.07 | aijs | does any OS for openmoko have active development? |
| 14:44.08 | PaulFertser | aijs: I'm using plain Debian + FSO2/Cornucopia + Emacs FSO UI + Xmonad. |
| 14:44.14 | PaulFertser | I do not think so |
| 14:44.22 | PaulFertser | The most usable currently is QtMoko afaik. |
| 14:45.37 | aijs | as openmoko runn on 100% free drivers - why is the kernel 2.x.x and not 4. ? |
| 14:46.47 | aijs | " 99% of the credit for this release goes to Paul Ferster. He managed to find the suspend/resume problem and finally after years we have stable kernel. Many thanks!" |
| 14:47.16 | aijs | nice, so you can probably answer the question with why kernel 2.6 and not 4.x :) |
| 14:50.04 | PaulFertser | aijs: heh, just nobody was interested to move the port forward anymore. My motivation vanished along with the community, and my own device worked okish by that time. |
| 14:52.49 | aijs | the "Debian + FSO2/Cornucopia + Emacs FSO UI + Xmonad" setup run already a new kernel and updates the kernel from time to time with new debian releases? |
| 14:53.13 | PaulFertser | aijs: nope, using old debian with old kernel :( |
| 14:53.30 | PaulFertser | Well, I upgrade packages sometimes but not init system etc. |
| 14:57.05 | aijs | this talk today seems to get the longest conversation for a day in 2016 :D http://logs.nslu2-linux.org/livelogs/openmoko/ |
| 15:00.18 | aijs | what i did not understand technically is why openmoko support max 16gb of micro-sdhc. Normally when the sd-chip support sdhc you can go up to 200gb(max possible at the moment). sdxc only mean other file system (exfat vs fat32) |
| 15:00.30 | aijs | why does openmoko stop at 16gb? |
| 15:06.11 | aijs | the internal memory of the openmoko have as known just few MB of space. How fast is the sd-chipset? Have someone tested a sandisk extreme pro micro-sd card with its 95MB/s read and 90MB/s write? Is there then any speed difference? |
| 15:07.16 | aijs | because then you can just use the internal nand for bootloader and nothing else. Whole OS on the sd-card |
| 15:09.44 | aijs | Qi seems to already load from mirco-sd only: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Qi |
| 15:10.10 | aijs | are there any benchmarks of the speed of the internal memory vs really fast micro-sd ? |
| 15:10.21 | JiiKoo | Yep, it's possible to have the operating system on the memory card |
| 15:11.24 | JiiKoo | Those benchmarks would be interesting |
| 15:12.35 | larsc | nax speed of the SD card is quite low. It's an issue of the electrical interface |
| 15:12.52 | larsc | still faster than the flash though |
| 15:14.49 | aijs | larsc: the internal 256MB NAND flash memory is already slower then (older) micro-sd cards? |
| 15:14.58 | larsc | I think |
| 15:15.28 | larsc | the problem with the SD card is that it is not connected to the SoC, but to an external companion chip |
| 15:15.50 | larsc | and this companion chip is connected via a slow 16-bit interface |
| 15:16.08 | larsc | and also takes care of the screen |
| 15:16.19 | larsc | so you have to share bandwidth between SD and framebuffer |
| 15:16.30 | aijs | -.- |
| 15:17.03 | aijs | did you know the reason for this 16GB limit? |
| 15:17.51 | larsc | limitation of the companion chip, I guess |
| 15:18.09 | larsc | at 16gb the addressing scheme changes |
| 15:18.14 | larsc | and you need support for the new one |
| 15:21.04 | aijs | and this is part of the ASIC and not part of a firmware? New micro-sd cards releases now some times with lowest version at 32gb. So slowly the smaller cards are running out |
| 15:22.12 | aijs | you also cant address just 16gb of a 32gb card as a solution? |
| 15:22.45 | larsc | I believe it needs hardware support |
| 15:23.08 | PaulFertser | Probably "glamo" (that media decelerator) runs some firmware internally, who knows. It's not likely you can anyhow affect it. |
| 15:24.18 | larsc | it is unfortunately bad hardware design |
| 15:24.47 | PaulFertser | That said, I'd be surprised if 16Gb SDHC would use different addressing scheme from a 32Gb SDHC. |
| 15:26.06 | aijs | did someone know if you can still buy ti-calypso chips from texas instruments? |
| 15:26.15 | PaulFertser | GB rather |
| 15:26.25 | aijs | GB? |
| 15:26.40 | PaulFertser | aijs: that was complicated even during the times Openmoko needed that for gta02 production. |
| 15:26.51 | PaulFertser | GigaBytes |
| 15:27.53 | aijs | how much would it cost to buy up the whole ti-calypso platform from ti to produce everything by ourself... |
| 15:28.13 | PaulFertser | I think that's just impossible, TI won't sell. |
| 15:28.58 | aijs | tp-link also didnt sell the things you need for production from devices that are not build any more and i dont understand why. |
| 15:30.55 | PaulFertser | aijs: freecalypso person is trying to build his own hardware |
| 15:31.27 | aijs | yes, i have heard from |
| 15:32.37 | aijs | he is "das signal"? |
| 15:34.17 | aijs | or Spacefalcon ? |
| 15:53.49 | aijs | ok, i find it out |
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| 18:46.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | spacefalcon sounds about right |
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