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| 18:38.47 | lide | hi! I'm trying to install Debian on my openmoko, but the install.sh on the wiki gives 404. I found one rootfs but it is very old. is there another recommended way to install Debian now? |
| 18:41.47 | lide | also, the install instructions said to run opkg on an existing QTMoko installation, but opkg command apparently doesn't work. also wondering if I should install Qi - IIRC I have uboot installed. |
| 18:49.02 | lide | forgot to mention I have a GTA02. |
| 19:17.43 | PaulFertser | lide: I'd recommend using debootstrap manually. |
| 19:18.03 | PaulFertser | lide: but beware that new Debian versions require modern enough kernel. |
| 19:19.13 | PaulFertser | lide: as a general advice, I'd recommend to treat gta02 as any other "armel" SBC. |
| 19:20.30 | PaulFertser | lide: you can prepare a uSD card on your host according to the instructions for your bootloader, then debootstrap --foreign Debian on it and the installation will continue when you boot from it. |
| 19:21.03 | PaulFertser | lide: serial console will most probably be handy, if you do not have openmoko debug board, any other reasonable usb uart adapter will work if you solder to the testpoints. |
| 19:24.45 | lide | PaulFertser: I have the debug board but not sure how to work with it here. thanks for the tips though, I'm looking into debootstrap now. I have only run QtMoko and SHR on my GTA02 before, and don't have much experience building the system like this. |
| 19:33.46 | PaulFertser | lide: then I suggest to stick with QtMoko |
| 19:34.50 | PaulFertser | lide: QtMoko images are all Debian based |
| 19:35.21 | lide | I thought Debian with FSO would be best for developing. TBH I haven't looked what QtMoko is up to these days, last I tried it seemed somewhat wonky. |
| 19:35.38 | PaulFertser | lide: you can deactivate QtMoko's daemons and use FSO |
| 19:35.47 | PaulFertser | lide: what do you plan to develop? |
| 19:36.17 | lide | a baby monitor |
| 19:36.30 | PaulFertser | How FSO comes into play? |
| 19:37.22 | lide | I thought the newer framework would be better to work with and if I considered the code worth sharing |
| 19:40.02 | PaulFertser | lide: I mean, what part of FSO is of direct importance for your task? |
| 19:40.18 | lide | I don't even need a graphical environment on the phone for my purposes so I Debian felt like a good starting point |
| 19:42.19 | PaulFertser | lide: QtMoko is Debian already |
| 19:43.50 | lide | I got the impression that FSO is the defacto API for building mobile applications, giving me easy access to the device? |
| 19:44.57 | lide | if I try QtMoko I probably need a reinstall anyway, hopefully it's not all 404! |
| 19:46.34 | lide | e.g. http://www.freesmartphone.org/specs/org.freesmartphone.GSM.Call/ |
| 19:49.40 | PaulFertser | lide: so that was my question, what part of FSO is of importance. |
| 19:49.47 | PaulFertser | lide: do you need GSM interface? |
| 19:50.00 | PaulFertser | Then probably calling FSO over dbus is a good idea. |
| 19:50.11 | PaulFertser | But you can install FSO on QtMoko too. |
| 19:50.20 | PaulFertser | No need for old ad-hock Debian installation script. |
| 19:50.34 | lide | also, I'm a bit worried about performance. GTA02 is somewhat meek in my experience. SHR was unuseable because the hardware couldn't handle the GUI environment (whichever it used, don't remember). I'm having massive lag in the old QtMoko versions already, but perhaps not running X would make the device more reliable already :) |
| 19:50.42 | PaulFertser | lide: alas, there's no defacto API for mobile, FSO never became one. |
| 19:50.50 | lide | PaulFertser: yes, I need GSM. |
| 19:50.57 | PaulFertser | Probably you can call Android to be defacto API :( |
| 19:51.21 | PaulFertser | I'm using gta02 with Debian and FSO2 as my only cellphone. |
| 19:51.35 | lide | right. but in this context, it felt like the best choice |
| 19:51.55 | lide | do you find it reliable? |
| 19:54.44 | lide | I used GTA02+QtMoko as my main phone for a while (years ago), but it pissed me off a bit too much. SHR was a disastrous bug-fest, completely unuseable. I felt what the phone needed was a super-sleek GUI with zero non-functional (incl. eyecandy) features. |
| 19:57.38 | PaulFertser | lide: no, I've fixed plenty of bugs in FSO2 but it's still not fully reliable, partially due to FSO2, partially due to modem firmware. Also, for some obscure reasons I'm using an old battery which makes GSM even more unreliable. |
| 19:58.43 | PaulFertser | I have no choice but to continue using gta02; else I'd have to resort to some stupid feature phone. |
| 20:01.48 | lide | I went back to using dumbphones actually :) my 12 years old Motorola is still kicking (though definitely seen its best years), and now I've been happily using a German rugged feature phone. |
| 20:03.09 | lide | the modem firmware on OpenMoko is not open, correct? |
| 20:03.26 | lide | has anyone reverse-engineered it? |
| 20:04.49 | lide | I also have a very nice Nokia 6100 but its battery is dead. I considered buying a high-capacity replacement from China (because I like to live dangerously) |
| 20:06.20 | lide | Neo is my only smartphone and although I don't need smart in my pocket I've finally found a purpose for a small computer with a GSM modem :) |
| 20:06.49 | PaulFertser | lide: there's a legal implementation: https://bb.osmocom.org/trac/wiki/Hardware/Calypso and there's an illegal project: https://www.freecalypso.org/ |
| 20:10.50 | lide | oh, nice. I remember trying to look up a hacked firmware some time ago but the situation seemed desperate at the time. |
| 20:19.21 | lide | PaulFertser: what are your thoughts on http://neo900.org/ ? |
| 20:20.50 | PaulFertser | lide: I really wish neo900 succeed. Great idea, great implementation. I can only hope they'll manage, and they have all the chances to do that. |
| 20:23.36 | lide | it does look/sound great (aside from the fact that I can't afford it) |
| 20:28.27 | lide | although, if the situation were to change, I might feel tempted to jump in to support the project. to be fair, locked phones sell for similar amount these days. I actually laughed out loud when I saw an ad for some new Samsung with close to 1k⬠price tag. |
| 20:30.25 | lide | I get it, it's not a phone, it's a multi-purpose computer that - amongst other things - replaces a phone. but it still amazes me how quickly this new paradigm perpetuated the non-power-user/non-geek population. |
| 20:32.07 | lide | I mean, 10 years ago when I used my Zaurus in public, I was given weird looks. only nerds would do that. now I look around, and everyone is thumb-tapping their computers, that were sold to them as phones, all the time :) |
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| 20:39.22 | lide | I guess we can thank Apple for making (and marketing) the computer more human-friendly, Facebook for giving people a reason to be on the Internet, and Google for making everything else so easily available. I think Google's choice of the nomenclature of their mobile OS was very conscious and somewhat humorous. "Android" isn't the OS - it's the new user+OS hybrid entity. |
| 20:42.01 | lide | (correction: user+device) the hive-mind and augmented reality is here already and it's so mundane that nobody even notices |
| 20:43.31 | lide | sorry about off-topic, I'll shut up :) thanks again for the help & suggestions. |
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