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| 12:05.00 | safilmer | Hi all, I am interested in the GTA04A5 motherboard, but would like to know the status of baseband firmware isolation |
| 12:05.25 | safilmer | I see also the Neo900 project has a lot of focus on that, and it is an important feature for me. |
| 12:06.09 | safilmer | Otherwise, is there a web page with a list of which components in GTA04 (including the new GTA04A5) require non-libre blobs, such as Wifi or GPU or GPS? |
| 12:24.07 | PaulFertser | safilmer: I do not have a direct answer but please keep in mind that a blob that runs on peripheral hardware is not nearly the same as a blob that runs on your application processor. |
| 12:24.26 | PaulFertser | safilmer: e.g. do you know how many blobs are there used by gta02? |
| 12:24.39 | safilmer | PaulFertser: I am aware of the difference. It seems as if 3D acceleration and WLAN both require blobs on the system processor |
| 12:25.02 | safilmer | PaulFertser: I do not, but I imagine both 3D and WLAN require blobs. |
| 12:25.29 | safilmer | (I am ignoring the GSM subsystems because it has it's own firmware running on it's own processor that obviously is non-libre) |
| 12:28.10 | PaulFertser | safilmer: regarding gta02, wrong on both points, no blobs needed on application processor for 3d and wlan. |
| 12:29.18 | safilmer | PaulFertser: So then the GTA02 is preferable from a software freedom standpoint? |
| 12:29.24 | safilmer | Hrmm, I was not aware. |
| 12:29.35 | PaulFertser | safilmer: why do you think gta04 needs any blobs on application processor at all? |
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| 12:31.20 | safilmer | PaulFertser: In this http://projects.goldelico.com/p/gta04-main/page/FAQ/ page in the section Firmware |
| 12:31.49 | safilmer | It seems liks the GTA02 is also supported by the http://bb.osmocom.org/trac/ project for libre GSM firmware which I also did not know! |
| 12:33.06 | safilmer | Hmm, the GTA02 seems like the preferable device... I thought it would be good to support Golden Delicious by ordering a GTA04A5, but maybe I should stick with GTA02 |
| 12:38.56 | safilmer | PaulFertser: Which do you own? |
| 12:40.28 | PaulFertser | safilmer: I own both gta02 and gta04 but use gta02. |
| 12:41.59 | safilmer | PaulFertser: Do you use osmocomBB on the GTA02? And why do you not use the GTA04? |
| 12:44.04 | PaulFertser | safilmer: osmocomBB is unusable for day-to-day usage, and that's my only cellphone. |
| 12:44.10 | PaulFertser | safilmer: gta04 has higher power consumption. |
| 12:45.54 | safilmer | Which distro do you run on the GTA02? And how long does the battery life last for? |
| 12:46.16 | PaulFertser | safilmer: I run plain Debian, but my setup is quite unusual. I'd recommend qtmoko. |
| 12:46.56 | PaulFertser | safilmer: gta02 is confirmed to be able to sleep (suspend-to-ram) for 140 hours with gsm on with a fresh battery. |
| 12:48.52 | safilmer | Fresh battery meaning fully charged? |
| 12:49.04 | PaulFertser | safilmer: and new enough |
| 12:49.56 | safilmer | That is quite impressive. I will surely install Qtmoko on a GTA02 and try it out! |
| 12:50.51 | PaulFertser | safilmer: that's with #1024 fix applied and "deep sleep" mode enabled, without it, it's about half time. |
| 12:50.54 | taruti | for daily use I didn't like the touchscreen of gta02 |
| 12:51.15 | PaulFertser | Who did? |
| 12:51.39 | safilmer | Doesn't the GTA04 use the same touchscreen? |
| 12:52.08 | PaulFertser | It does. |
| 12:52.38 | safilmer | Hmm, it seems like Qtmoko development has stalled 1,5 years ago |
| 12:54.46 | PaulFertser | It was |
| 12:56.18 | PaulFertser | It has rather. Well, people are not enthusiastic enough to run free software on their cellphones apparently. |
| 13:07.42 | safilmer | PaulFertser: Then my last, or most important question has to do with the baseband firmware. The reason that I *was* excited about the Neo900 project was the emphasis on baseband isolation, but that device will require blobs for WLAN and 3D for sure (and cost over 900 EUR) |
| 13:08.25 | PaulFertser | safilmer: are you sure about wlan blob? |
| 13:08.32 | PaulFertser | safilmer: where is it written? |
| 13:08.35 | PaulFertser | safilmer: i really doubt it. |
| 13:09.00 | PaulFertser | safilmer: also, both gta02 and gta04 have isolated baseband in a sense that it's running on its own CPU and not sharing any memory. |
| 13:09.20 | PaulFertser | neo900 has some additional isolation means but that's probably over-paranoid. |
| 13:09.37 | safilmer | PaulFertser: So the Neo900 would not have anything additional to offer in the way that GTA02 has? |
| 13:09.48 | safilmer | I will look for the Neo900 WLAN blob link, one moment. |
| 13:10.00 | PaulFertser | safilmer: gta02 lacks hw keyboard, lacks decent processor lacks RAM etc etc. |
| 13:10.55 | safilmer | I know that, I was asking specifically about baseband firmware isolation |
| 13:11.08 | safilmer | As in, specifically what extra does the Neo900 do? |
| 13:11.39 | safilmer | And if one really cared about software freedom (and not price), should one invest in the GTA04A5 or the Neo900 or neither |
| 13:12.33 | PaulFertser | neo900 is a really cool open hardware/free software project. |
| 13:12.52 | safilmer | PaulFertser: http://neo900.org/faq#peripherals |
| 13:13.05 | PaulFertser | safilmer: what exactly there? |
| 13:13.37 | safilmer | The WiFi chipset (WL1273L) will require a binary-only firmware file to be loaded. |
| 13:14.04 | PaulFertser | safilmer: _firmware_ means code running on an isolated processor, not on your application processor. |
| 13:14.20 | PaulFertser | Loaded as in bytes transferred. |
| 13:15.13 | safilmer | Yes I know, but why not choose a WLAN chip that does not require non-libre firmware? |
| 13:15.14 | PaulFertser | safilmer: do you have a monitor on your desk? It's running such a blob too. And your hard disk drive. And your usb mass storage-compliant flash memory stick. And even an SD card. |
| 13:15.35 | PaulFertser | safilmer: do you know of any modern wifi chip that's running libre firmware? |
| 13:15.47 | PaulFertser | There's none. |
| 13:16.08 | safilmer | PaulFertser: Anything using the ath5k or ath9k driver? aka pretty much any Atheros 802.11g or 802.11n chipsets? |
| 13:16.24 | safilmer | Also Realtek chipsets that use the rtl8187 driver |
| 13:16.41 | safilmer | Or what about what is inside the GTA02? |
| 13:16.44 | PaulFertser | safilmer: desktop stuff, completely different. Also, they might be running some microcode without you knowing anything about it. |
| 13:17.20 | PaulFertser | safilmer: gta02 has ar6000 shit, it's running a blob too, stored on its own ROM. |
| 13:17.46 | PaulFertser | And how do you tell rtl8187 devices do not have any firmware? |
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