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| 15:42.39 | *** topic/#openmoko is Openmoko Mobile Phone Hardware users | WikiReader channel #openmoko-wikireader | Developers channel #openmoko-cdevel | German folks channel #openmoko-de | New Users read http://wiki.openmoko.org + http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html | chanlogs: ~logs | distro-specific channels: #qtmoko, #android-on-freerunner, #openmoko-debian |
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| 17:04.16 | *** join/#openmoko Dumle29 (~quassel@dns5.snuletek.org) |
| 17:04.58 | Dumle29 | Hey there. Any tips on what chip I would use for a 2 key HID keyboard? I'm currently looking at the EFM8UB1 from silicon labs, as it's dirt cheap |
| 17:18.06 | PaulFertser | Dumle29: I'd pick something more common and supported by free software toolchain. |
| 17:18.45 | PaulFertser | Dumle29: you can probably get some stupid old attiny cheaper. Or smart new stm32f0 for about the same price. |
| 17:22.06 | Dumle29 | PaulFertser: 0.8USD in one off quantiy? |
| 17:22.17 | PaulFertser | Dumle29: http://www.digikey.com/product-search/en?k=attiny25&mnonly=0&newproducts=0&ColumnSort=1000011&page=1&stock=0&pbfree=0&rohs=0&quantity=&ptm=0&fid=0&pageSize=25 |
| 17:22.56 | PaulFertser | Dumle29: if you're buying just one, it doesn't matter if it's 0.5$ or 2$, really. |
| 17:23.15 | Dumle29 | PaulFertser: Yeah I considered just going with an ATTiny85 and VUSB, but is that robust enough? Does the software implemented USB work well enough? |
| 17:23.42 | PaulFertser | Dumle29: I think it does, what specific usecase do you have in mind? |
| 17:23.44 | Dumle29 | PaulFertser: Yeah I know for prototyping it doesn't really matter. It was more of an indication of what the price was at the most expensive (1 off quantity) |
| 17:23.56 | Dumle29 | PaulFertser: 2 key keyboard, so not demanding at all |
| 17:23.57 | PaulFertser | Dumle29: e.g. USBasp programmers use vusb and are sold in thousands. |
| 17:24.25 | PaulFertser | I do not like AVR at all, I really recommend to not use it for just about anything. |
| 17:24.29 | Dumle29 | Okay that seals it for me. Especially because I already have a layout with that chip in my CAD package |
| 17:24.49 | Dumle29 | PaulFertser: What do you have against AVR? |
| 17:25.35 | PaulFertser | If you care to educate yourself, better get something cortex-m-based, it's modern, cheap, has decent debug facilities, and nicely supported by free software. AVRs are old, atmegas cost _more_ than, say, stm32s being 10x less powerful etc. |
| 17:26.07 | Dumle29 | PaulFertser: Well true, but a cortex m chip for a 2 key keyboard is a bit excessive |
| 17:26.42 | Dumle29 | Also I will now stop pinging you, as that seems a bit excessive in this crowded channel :P |
| 17:27.51 | Dumle29 | I'll be back in 10-15 minutes, something came up. |
| 17:27.57 | PaulFertser | Dumle29: if you're into embedded, it's better to have tools and skills handy. You just do not know how much time was saved by using modern chips and OpenOCD ;) |
| 17:34.10 | PaulFertser | Dumle29: you'll also have more possibilities to extend your device, if needed. |
| 18:15.58 | Dumle29 | PaulFertser: Never heard of OpenOCD, it seems interesting :) |
| 18:16.11 | Dumle29 | PaulFertser: What exactly is it? :P |
| 18:27.43 | PaulFertser | Dumle29: if you read README of 0.8.0 or current version, you'll see. |
| 18:28.08 | Dumle29 | PaulFertser: Will do. I'm also currently taking a look at the mchck |
| 18:28.09 | PaulFertser | Dumle29: I'm mean it would be silly of me to try to rephrase what I've already wrote there. |
| 18:28.20 | Dumle29 | PaulFertser: Oh it's yours :P |
| 18:28.39 | PaulFertser | Dumle29: no, not really. I've just helped here and there. |
| 18:28.44 | Dumle29 | ah :) |
| 18:30.22 | PaulFertser | Dumle29: (mchck) I prefer libopencm3 or probably stm32plus, ChibiOS/RT etc. |
| 18:31.33 | Dumle29 | PaulFertser: Thing is, starting off from the mchck point, would leave it compatible with KLL that has been recently developed. (Keyboard Layout Language) |
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| 18:34.30 | PaulFertser | Dumle29: Kinetis parts seem to be popular in the industry but not so well received among the free software community. If you're looking for something with radio, nRF51 is nice. |
| 18:35.24 | PaulFertser | Dumle29: but that mcchk looks cool too! |
| 18:35.48 | Dumle29 | PaulFertser: Ah kinetis the freenode chip. Now to be clear. I've only dealth with AVR chips, ever. As it left me with the comfort of being able to crawl back to arduino if I couldn't get something to work |
| 18:36.41 | Dumle29 | I'm a bit tired... Freenode -> freescale* |
| 18:37.17 | PaulFertser | Dumle29: for an easy entrance to the modern microcontroller world I'd suggest you choose among different stm32 discovery boards. They have on board programmer that you can use to flash and debug external targets too. |
| 18:37.59 | Dumle29 | PaulFertser: Hmm. Thing is I'm saving up for moving out, and starting UNI, so it sorta has to be cheap :/ |
| 18:38.53 | PaulFertser | Dumle29: they're 10-20$ usually. Including the debug adapter. |
| 18:39.42 | Dumle29 | Okay I can see the K20 freescale MCUs aren't that popular. Couldn't google myself to the datasheet. had to go to their site... |
| 18:40.19 | Dumle29 | PaulFertser: For trying a abit of USB applications, what STM32 board would you recommend? |
| 18:41.59 | Dumle29 | I kinda want to move away from arduino, as I feel it's a bit too much support wheels than I'm comfortable with, so the STM32 Nucleo is probably not a good idea right? |
| 18:43.32 | PaulFertser | Dumle29: stm32 nucleo is as good (or better since they have a newer stlink) as discovery, it just lacks any additional peripherals. But if you have some arduino shields, you can attach that, afaict. |
| 18:44.27 | Dumle29 | PaulFertser: I don't have any arduino shields. Only arduino thing I have is a nano I bought to support them. The rest arduino related has been on boards I made for personal uses. |
| 18:45.19 | PaulFertser | Dumle29: I see. If you do not need any magnetometer, display and such on board, just the controller + stlink, nucleo is a nice choice. |
| 18:45.51 | Dumle29 | Well if the discovery is just 10-20$, then I don't see a reason to not get those instead. |
| 18:48.17 | PaulFertser | There're more expensive discoveries, but they have a big display. |
| 18:50.18 | Dumle29 | yeah I won't need that. I have some HD44780 displays if I really want to drive some sort of display |
| 18:51.14 | Dumle29 | Now I'm still a but confused, there's 13 different bords, and it seems the major difference is the chip they are based on. I guess I'll go by price, and check out the ones I like the price of |
| 18:53.18 | Dumle29 | Odd that the board with USB capabilities doesn't support HID (although I'm sure you could program it to do that yourself) |
| 18:53.23 | PaulFertser | There're some controller family comparison charts on st.com. |
| 18:53.45 | PaulFertser | HID is a pure software thing, no need to mention it if the cpu supports usb device. |
| 18:53.57 | Dumle29 | Ah ok :) |
| 18:54.34 | Dumle29 | It's just that they mention that it suports 3 different interfaces over USB. VCP, Mass storage, and Debug port |
| 18:54.51 | PaulFertser | They talk about stlink-v2-1 here. |
| 18:55.01 | PaulFertser | It exposes all of them at the same time. |
| 18:55.07 | Dumle29 | You sure? http://www.st.com/web/catalog/tools/FM116/SC959/SS1532/LN1848/PF260318 |
| 18:55.17 | PaulFertser | I'd probably suggest http://www.st.com/web/catalog/tools/FM116/SC959/SS1532/LN1848/PF259724 if you plan to use f0 with usb in the future. |
| 18:55.18 | Dumle29 | Other boards with STLinkv2 doesn't mention it |
| 18:56.13 | PaulFertser | stlinkv2 has only debug interface, stlink-v2-1 (as found on nucleo and newer discos) has uart exposed as an ACM device plus mass storage for reflashing without additional software. |
| 18:56.39 | Dumle29 | PaulFertser: Ahh, that makes sense :) |
| 18:57.22 | Dumle29 | They could really use some noob friendly product names for their discovery series |
| 18:57.27 | Dumle29 | :/ |
| 18:58.40 | PaulFertser | This is more cool imho: http://www.st.com/web/catalog/tools/FM116/SC959/SS1532/LN1848/PF254044 . It has Cortex-M4F (hardware floating point), stm32f3 with integrated comparators and other analog stuff, and 3d accelerometer, magnetometer + hyro on board. USB device interface too. |
| 19:00.04 | Dumle29 | Hmm I'm interested in the sensitivity of the magnetometer. |
| 19:00.19 | PaulFertser | Or L0 disco if you want to play with low power controller and an e-ink display. |
| 19:00.45 | Dumle29 | Had some issues with a LIS3MDL that I tried to get working, but failed (well I can read temperature and stuff, but it seems I messed up some registers that I shouldn't have, and all readings return 0) |
| 19:02.21 | PaulFertser | I used that f3 board to get all the readings. Was reliably detecting a tin can when I was holding it closer than a 1m or so. |
| 19:02.31 | PaulFertser | For real data just read the datasheet ;) |
| 19:03.06 | Dumle29 | Will do :) I'm trying to replace some crazy sensitive reed switches that a friends boss uses in a product of his, and it's crazy |
| 19:03.37 | Dumle29 | He can't get a hold of the reed switches anymore, so he's looking for alternatives, and the LIS3MDL looke promising with the 4 mGauss range. |
| 19:05.00 | Dumle29 | Yeah this is a +-1.3 gauss minimum scale, probably not sensitive enough |
| 19:06.38 | Dumle29 | yeah I'm a tard. That's not milli gauss. I'm looking for something around 0.5 gauss performance. That chips should do great :P |
| 19:08.36 | Dumle29 | or was it 5 gauss? Shit it's been a while since I dealt with those numbers. Getting the STM32F3 board you linked :) |
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| 19:13.04 | Dumle29 | And element 14 only sells to companies. What |
| 19:14.20 | Dumle29 | You gotta be shitting me. 20EUR shipping from mouser. |
| 19:15.10 | Dumle29 | So I can get that at 30$ delivered. That's the absolute cheapest. Shipping is 12$ the cheapest place I could find. Oh well. I guess that's the site then |
| 19:29.05 | Dumle29 | Okay. getting it on ebay. That above mentioned company won't ship to common folk like me either -_- |
| 19:32.16 | PaulFertser | :( |
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