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| 02:27.17 | DocScrutinizer | duh I missed an opportunity to kickban |
| 02:27.56 | DocScrutinizer | thanks PaulFertser |
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| 07:52.22 | Qantourisc | Anyone here has a openmako phone ? |
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| 09:53.18 | PaulFertser | Qantourisc: gta02? Sure, many do. |
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| 09:58.05 | *** mode/#openmoko [-o PaulFertser] by ChanServ |
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| 11:30.27 | Qantourisc | PaulFertser: anyone using it ? :) |
| 11:43.47 | PaulFertser | Qantourisc: sure. I do too. |
| 11:51.01 | Sazius | my Freerunner saved me this week when I went to the US and had forgotten that my dumb phone doesn't support triband :) |
| 11:51.45 | Sazius | I had brought my Freerunner along as a GPS device, but it was then upgraded to full smart phone :) |
| 11:55.21 | Sazius | or last week more accurately |
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| 13:05.07 | Qantourisc | PaulFertser: how is it, what os do you use ? |
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| 13:18.03 | PaulFertser | Qantourisc: i use Debian + fso from about Jan 2011... It doesn't work nice i'd say. But that's me, using my phone the hardcore way. |
| 13:18.22 | PaulFertser | Qantourisc: many people who're using recent SHR or QtMoko are happy with functionality. |
| 13:18.22 | Qantourisc | PaulFertser: define hardcore, and not nice :) |
| 13:18.50 | PaulFertser | Qantourisc: i compiled the whole FSO stack from git and wrote an Emacs UI for it, that's what i meant by hardcore. |
| 13:18.53 | Qantourisc | PaulFertser: also, how fast or slow does a linux run on sutch a phone ? |
| 13:19.05 | Qantourisc | PaulFertser: fancy :) |
| 13:19.26 | Qantourisc | PaulFertser: stupid question; is sms supported ? :) |
| 13:19.50 | PaulFertser | Qantourisc: depends on what you do. Compared with modern devices it's quite slow. But given the right decisions (as used by e.g. QtMoko) it's reasonably fast to be useful. |
| 13:20.05 | PaulFertser | Qantourisc: yes, i can send and receive messages via SMS. |
| 13:20.43 | Qantourisc | PaulFertser: well what is slow ? do the button lag notisabily ? |
| 13:20.51 | Qantourisc | or just running cpu intensive things is slow ? |
| 13:21.23 | Qantourisc | qtmoko seems nice (if i can run other software) |
| 13:21.42 | Qantourisc | hmmm that makes me wonder ... how about the keyboard on non-phonebased applications ? |
| 13:22.01 | PaulFertser | Qantourisc: sometimes _my_ setup is so slow that i can't manage to answer the call before the other side hangs up. |
| 13:22.14 | Qantourisc | *jikes* |
| 13:22.21 | Qantourisc | how comes yours is slow ? |
| 13:22.22 | PaulFertser | Qantourisc: i use on-screen keyboard and it's surprisingly good enough for emacsing. |
| 13:22.24 | Qantourisc | tomutch heavy software ? |
| 13:22.39 | PaulFertser | Qantourisc: old kernel with debug info, FSO debug logs enabled, etc... |
| 13:22.41 | Qantourisc | PaulFertser: so the on-screen keyboard apears nomather what applicatino |
| 13:22.46 | Qantourisc | PaulFertser: OUCH :) |
| 13:22.52 | Qantourisc | that could get slow |
| 13:23.00 | PaulFertser | Qantourisc: no, i use AUX to toggle the keyboard. |
| 13:23.01 | Qantourisc | other silly question: don't the SD cards weir out ? |
| 13:23.33 | Qantourisc | PaulFertser: so you can choice when to display it ... and the window manager takes care of shrinking the app then ? |
| 13:23.40 | PaulFertser | Qantourisc: it's highly unlikely for a card to wear out. |
| 13:23.50 | Qantourisc | then again, a backup :) |
| 13:23.51 | PaulFertser | Qantourisc: there were some tests done by some DE magazine. |
| 13:23.57 | PaulFertser | Qantourisc: yup |
| 13:24.08 | Qantourisc | if it weirs out, restore backup, new card :) |
| 13:24.24 | Qantourisc | imap ? cardav ? icaldav ? |
| 13:25.01 | Qantourisc | that i also care about ... for sip i should be able to use linphone. |
| 13:25.15 | Qantourisc | loves open standards. |
| 13:25.59 | PaulFertser | Qantourisc: linphone works in theory but i'm not sure if anyone was able to use it for voice calls in real life. It needs some tweaking to not use floating point operations and it needs echo-cancellation or automatic half-duplex enabled. |
| 13:26.19 | PaulFertser | Qantourisc: everything's there and it should work. Not over GPRS though, plain old GPRS is too slow, you need a wifi connection. |
| 13:26.23 | Qantourisc | Why would it need echo-cancellation (unless it's on speaker) |
| 13:26.43 | Qantourisc | it's for wifi use usually i think, then egain ... |
| 13:26.46 | PaulFertser | Qantourisc: unfortunately, the case is known to provide acoustic feedback from the earpiece to the mic... |
| 13:26.48 | Qantourisc | no 3G onthe thing ? |
| 13:26.59 | Qantourisc | and linphone supports half-duplex :) |
| 13:27.00 | PaulFertser | Qantourisc: no even fucking EDGE :/ |
| 13:27.18 | Qantourisc | o dear ... hardware limit ? |
| 13:27.31 | Qantourisc | GTA03 ? |
| 13:28.01 | Qantourisc | PaulFertser: any other sip solutions ? |
| 13:28.36 | PaulFertser | Qantourisc: there's ``Pisi'' software that supports some of the open standards for syncing contacts and the like, but it's not polished. Basically, you can install any light-weight application you want. |
| 13:29.08 | PaulFertser | Sure, the GSM chipset was EOL even before gta02 was designed. |
| 13:29.54 | PaulFertser | Qantourisc: gta04 is something that you can consider, yes, but it's expensive and in the very "development" state currently. Though quite promising. |
| 13:30.40 | Qantourisc | PaulFertser: if i can "download/import" the contacts, am happy to ... (writing a script etc.) |
| 13:31.04 | PaulFertser | Qantourisc: sure, everything's possible with some small bash/awk/python magic :) |
| 13:31.37 | Qantourisc | good |
| 13:31.51 | Qantourisc | then, what hardware should i buy ? |
| 13:32.03 | Qantourisc | freerunner ? n9 ? n900? something else ? |
| 13:32.49 | PaulFertser | Qantourisc: as funny as it gets, freerunner is the only thing that's supported by free software enough to be a daily phone... |
| 13:33.32 | Qantourisc | ow |
| 13:33.40 | Qantourisc | pitty i'm buying old hardware :) |
| 13:33.52 | Qantourisc | so no gta03 to obtain ? |
| 13:33.59 | PaulFertser | Qantourisc: gta02 or gta04 only. |
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| 13:34.29 | Qantourisc | so what is wrong with gta04 ? |
| 13:35.03 | Qantourisc | 666€ nice :) |
| 13:35.38 | PaulFertser | Qantourisc: still early in development. |
| 13:35.50 | PaulFertser | Qantourisc: old stupid FR's case. |
| 13:35.53 | PaulFertser | Qantourisc: small screen |
| 13:36.12 | PaulFertser | Qantourisc: n900 is promising but still not really works as a daily phone. |
| 13:39.22 | Qantourisc | small screen also means small phone :) |
| 13:39.34 | Qantourisc | That's not a down for me perse |
| 13:42.36 | Qantourisc | PaulFertser: so some things are not working ? |
| 13:43.01 | PaulFertser | Qantourisc: gta04 is in, well, alpha/beta stage afaict |
| 13:43.51 | Qantourisc | Quess it's waiting for the upgrade board then |
| 13:44.00 | Qantourisc | Now i don't need a smartphone just yet |
| 13:44.06 | Qantourisc | so i can either upgrade later, or wait |
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| 13:46.40 | Qantourisc | o dear ... how about WPA2 ? |
| 13:47.23 | Qantourisc | PaulFertser: also 20kbits should just be fast enough for SIP btw: ) |
| 13:47.35 | Qantourisc | if using the right codex |
| 13:47.42 | Qantourisc | like GSM12 or speed 8kbits |
| 13:47.51 | PaulFertser | Qantourisc: WPA2 works. |
| 13:47.57 | PaulFertser | speex or ilbc, yes. |
| 13:48.18 | PaulFertser | Well, i've asked several times but somehow nobody has put enough effort to tell for sure if linphone works properly or not. |
| 13:49.35 | Qantourisc | PaulFertser: I'm pro sip ... so I should be able to tell if i get one :) |
| 13:49.41 | Qantourisc | any eta on gta04 ? :) |
| 13:50.32 | PaulFertser | Qantourisc: i'd say it should be clear if it's worthy in about 2 months. |
| 13:50.43 | PaulFertser | Mind that i'm usually over-optimistic. |
| 13:50.47 | Qantourisc | :) |
| 13:51.06 | PaulFertser | Qantourisc: if you're pro sip, tell me why the the hell i can't find a sip client with proper support for ipv6? |
| 13:51.41 | Qantourisc | PaulFertser: don't have a lot of sip yet :) |
| 13:51.52 | Qantourisc | PaulFertser: and i quess no-one cared enough yet ? |
| 13:52.00 | PaulFertser | Qantourisc: they should... |
| 13:52.04 | Qantourisc | i know |
| 13:52.21 | Qantourisc | If I can get my life together, i should have time to aid, and code these things |
| 13:52.47 | Qantourisc | If I get my life together, I need a smartphone :) |
| 13:52.50 | Qantourisc | the irony :) |
| 13:52.56 | PaulFertser | :) |
| 13:53.03 | PaulFertser | FR can take helluva time, beware :) |
| 13:54.23 | Qantourisc | yea ... |
| 13:54.26 | Qantourisc | i figured |
| 13:55.32 | Qantourisc | needs to get rid of having 1 time consuming, bad paying and customer. As now i'm depend on it ... dangerous situation. |
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| 19:57.57 | lide | I just installed SHR and it's extremely sluggy |
| 19:58.13 | lide | totally unusable on GTA02 |
| 19:59.00 | lide | froze twice already so that I had to force reboot, again it's completely unresponsive to any commands |
| 19:59.18 | lide | did somebody actually get this to a decent shape? |
| 20:01.06 | lide | also the one keyboard I liked from QTmoko has been implemented here which was nice except that the magnifying effect and extending megasize keys get on my way |
| 20:01.39 | lide | I think it's realistic to say this device isn't very functional without a stylus, aside from making calls |
| 20:02.03 | lide | so I'd rather just go stylus all the way |
| 20:02.44 | lide | and all the other keyboards I tried are even worse :D |
| 20:07.56 | PaulFertser | lide: i use my phone daily |
| 20:08.08 | PaulFertser | lide: without a stylus with emacs and e17's keyboard. |
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| 20:08.23 | PaulFertser | lide: and i cut my fingernails (sometimes ;) ) |
| 20:09.29 | lide | :O |
| 20:10.09 | lide | well I bite mine and I have fat fingertips |
| 20:10.19 | lide | impossible to work the phone without stylus |
| 20:10.23 | lide | but I don't mind at all |
| 20:10.44 | lide | what gets me, though, is the ridiculous lag in trivial tasks |
| 20:11.00 | lide | and the freezes |
| 20:11.06 | PaulFertser | Yep... :/ |
| 20:12.32 | lide | I mean... I know the hardware is dated, but it's not THAT shit, clearly software optimization isn't a priority these days when we have quadcore smartphones hitting the markets |
| 20:14.01 | lide | SHR seems interesting functionally, I mean it seems more like a real linux compared to QTmoko for instance, in which I felt a little crippled, but it's so damnnnn bloated |
| 20:15.22 | lide | do people actually run a variety of different window managers / desktop environments on different distros? because I'd be ready to try something :) |
| 20:17.21 | lide | and I ditched QTmoko today because it wouldn't allow me to set the hardware clock (laughable) and I was sick of setting the time manually (no wifi at home, didn't get usbnet to work, gps sync didn't seem trivial) every time the phone goes into a tilt, which was a bit too often |
| 20:17.45 | PaulFertser | lide: do you mean hwclock didn't work? |
| 20:18.05 | lide | yeah couldn't access the device or someting |
| 20:18.07 | PaulFertser | lide: or do you mean your backup battery is botched just like everybody's else? |
| 20:18.33 | lide | I wouldn't know, worth a check |
| 20:18.49 | lide | but it seemed that QTmoko wasn't able to access the device |
| 20:19.20 | PaulFertser | lide: if you reboot by pulling out the battery, probably that doesn't matter. |
| 20:19.56 | PaulFertser | lide: also, it would be nice if you reported the bug properly, attaching the dmesg and the exact error message from hwclock. |
| 20:20.26 | lide | no prob if I only remembered what it said |
| 20:20.51 | lide | and I don't get the part about removing the battery to boot |
| 20:20.56 | lide | after tilt |
| 20:21.34 | lide | according to wiki this hwclock issue was known |
| 20:22.25 | PaulFertser | lide: with what kernel version? |
| 20:23.59 | lide | I don't remember that either and it doesn't help that the .bin's are named so ambiguously :p |
| 20:24.30 | PaulFertser | Well... |
| 20:25.39 | lide | I don't expect any instant gratification but I also don't hold myself back on criticism, I can get this information for you if it helps |
| 20:26.07 | lide | right now I'm trying to find the wiki page I read |
| 20:27.04 | lide | there is a mention of the backup battery being a probable cause |
| 20:28.23 | lide | and I'd right now look first into that to see if that was really my issue. but I'd still prefer SHR or debian (didn't try yet) to QTmoko (which I really liked as a phone OS but found to be a little too limited) |
| 20:32.41 | lide | oh, another thing :D my gsm voice calls transmit some horrendous distorted noise with bleeps, people complained to me about it and I did a bit of listening on their end and it sounds like the gsm signals are somehow adding noise to the mic line |
| 20:33.21 | lide | I mean it sounds pretty much the same as the bleeps and buzzing you get when you have some audio equipment on when someone in the proximity receives a call or sms |
| 20:33.59 | lide | and my mobo is A7++ so it should be buzz-fixed |
| 20:35.45 | lide | and it seems to occur semi-randomly. I was able to tune the mic and voice volumes so that the whirring & buzzing noises subsided to tolerable levels, but then after I made another call they returned |
| 20:36.38 | lide | so I thought could the gsm modem be doing some unnecessary cell scans constantly, would this even be possible in middle of a phone conversation? |
| 20:41.33 | PaulFertser | lide: probably the bad soldering of that buzz-filter capacitor? |
| 20:41.50 | PaulFertser | Check the circuity. |
| 20:42.06 | PaulFertser | lide: also, isn't QtMoko based on Debian already? |
| 20:45.08 | lide | hmm, I'll check that out. good directions, thanks. opening the thing was on the to-do list anyway. |
| 20:46.23 | lide | yes QTmoko is a debian derivative but I couldn't find many apps |
| 20:46.32 | lide | and I wasn't sure if the other repos would work |
| 20:46.49 | lide | and how would the GUI handle them |
| 20:47.34 | lide | well being a binary distro there's good chance apps from other repos should work but I'm not trusting the environment enough to save me from a dep hell |
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| 20:48.51 | lide | for one I always detested ubuntu, *although* it was supposed to be based on a successful distro |
| 20:49.38 | lide | then again I wasn't a big fan of debian either, was very bloated on my zaurus too, but was the smallest of all evils available :p |
| 20:50.12 | lide | I gotta run, bbl |
| 20:50.19 | lide | ty for the tips |
| 20:50.32 | lide | I'll try to be more informative in the future ^^ |
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| 22:23.19 | *** topic/#openmoko is Openmoko Mobile Phone Hardware users | WikiReader channel #openmoko-wikireader | Developers channel #openmoko-cdevel | German folks channel #openmoko-de | New Users read http://wiki.openmoko.org + http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html | logs http://is.gd/fiQwM | distro-specific channels: #qtmoko, #android-on-freerunner, #openmoko-debian |
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