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| 01:31.51 | linuxxr | +w |
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| 10:01.15 | *** topic/#openmoko is Openmoko Mobile Phone Hardware users | WikiReader channel #openmoko-wikireader | Developers channel #openmoko-cdevel | German folks channel #openmoko-de | New Users read http://wiki.openmoko.org + http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html | logs http://is.gd/fiQwM | distro-specific channels: #qtmoko, #android-on-freerunner, #openmoko-debian |
| 10:05.42 | PaulFertser | telegraphs: yes |
| 10:06.05 | PaulFertser | telegraphs: openmoko had a romance with android but then got dumped by the Koolu folks. |
| 10:06.09 | PaulFertser | At least that's how i see it. |
| 10:06.58 | SpeedEvil | Wasn't Koolu just a distributor that seemed to want to put androind on it? |
| 10:07.31 | telegraphs | i see |
| 10:08.00 | telegraphs | as someone who's getting into programming now, (I've developed one android application professionally) and I'm playing with some python/qt4 here |
| 10:08.01 | PaulFertser | SpeedEvil: no, they promised to put an actual development effort towards that. |
| 10:08.10 | telegraphs | is there any practical benefit for me to play with openmoko rather than android? |
| 10:08.16 | SpeedEvil | Ah. |
| 10:08.28 | SpeedEvil | Well - do you have a FR? |
| 10:08.51 | telegraphs | I have no france |
| 10:09.00 | PaulFertser | telegraphs: android is not *nix |
| 10:09.05 | SpeedEvil | Freerunner |
| 10:09.10 | SpeedEvil | Openmoko freerunner. |
| 10:09.14 | PaulFertser | telegraphs: so that's not comparable at all |
| 10:09.50 | telegraphs | That's another one I debate mentally |
| 10:09.52 | SpeedEvil | It's the only phone which you can shoot with a .22 rifle, and have it carry on working. |
| 10:10.10 | Kamping_Kaiser | hehe |
| 10:10.30 | PaulFertser | SpeedEvil: can you take a look at my naive attempts to ask questions about phonet? What am i doing wrong there? http://logs.nslu2-linux.org/livelogs/ofono.txt |
| 10:10.33 | PaulFertser | Please :) |
| 10:10.37 | telegraphs | I have a copy of Rockhind's advanced unix programming 2 right here and know C, but I don't forsee any technology trends towards unix in the future. I perceive most of the stacks to already be developed, and that most of the innovation will happen on top of those. |
| 10:11.04 | telegraphs | Does anyone forecast unix? Please tell me it's worth my time, it looks so cool. |
| 10:11.21 | SpeedEvil | meego and related architectures may be interesting still. |
| 10:11.44 | telegraphs | ooh |
| 10:12.06 | SpeedEvil | Openmoko - corporate - is dead. There are some interesting open-source projects still going that started on the openmoko phones. |
| 10:12.21 | SpeedEvil | And linux is exploding through embedded space. |
| 10:12.21 | telegraphs | Just a hacker circlejerk |
| 10:12.28 | telegraphs | Yeah, I was thinking of embedded |
| 10:12.38 | telegraphs | I know it sounds crazy, but I am trying to learn skills that are monetizable. |
| 10:12.52 | telegraphs | I don't think I can monetize linux embedded skills without going to college first though |
| 10:12.54 | SpeedEvil | Hardly crazy. |
| 10:13.03 | telegraphs | I have no problem finding people that want me to write some web crud though. |
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| 10:13.30 | telegraphs | Plus, I don't really have linux embedded skills :/ |
| 10:13.51 | telegraphs | I know C at a suitable level of competence, and don't really know electronics or x86 assembly |
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| 10:14.22 | telegraphs | more like PIC though, or ARM. |
| 10:14.26 | telegraphs | derps. |
| 10:14.30 | SpeedEvil | For most embedded stuff, you don't really need to know asm. |
| 10:14.49 | telegraphs | Do you work on any projects outside of openmoko? |
| 10:14.58 | telegraphs | embedded ones |
| 10:16.46 | SpeedEvil | I'm mostly poking around in maemo these days. |
| 10:17.00 | SpeedEvil | But not doing much actual coding. More trying to inspire others to do coding. |
| 10:17.13 | SpeedEvil | Pointing them at interesting stuff. |
| 10:17.23 | telegraphs | guess I'm talking to the right guy :) |
| 10:17.59 | SpeedEvil | Not really, I've never made any cash at all from maemo, or OM |
| 10:18.10 | telegraphs | I don't anticipate making cash in the immediate future. |
| 10:18.30 | telegraphs | but my observation (5+ years of being a passive geek and not really coding anything) |
| 10:18.51 | telegraphs | has told me that early adopters of obscure yet technically sophisticated things that eventually gain momentum end up the winners. |
| 10:19.05 | telegraphs | no point in playing with an old and tired language/platform to me. |
| 10:19.33 | telegraphs | That's why I'm thinking about alternatives to android. All the kiddies have already infested the appospheres. |
| 10:19.38 | telegraphs | I missed the boat. |
| 10:20.27 | telegraphs | tl;dr I want to be part of something new and exciting. |
| 10:20.39 | SpeedEvil | Unfortunately, openmoko isn't it. |
| 10:20.47 | telegraphs | Yeah, I think we established that :) |
| 10:21.02 | mjr | meego theoretically might still be, but odds are somewhat ... reduced since nokia |
| 10:21.03 | SpeedEvil | Maemo/Meego looked promising, but has really suffered a major blow this week when Nokia jumped to windows. |
| 10:21.11 | telegraphs | ouch. |
| 10:21.21 | SpeedEvil | IMO - a truly dumb move for Nokia. |
| 10:21.26 | telegraphs | Why? |
| 10:21.28 | SpeedEvil | But good for their short-term revenue. |
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| 10:21.53 | SpeedEvil | They become simply an OEM. With nothing special in terms of software. |
| 10:22.17 | SpeedEvil | It's good in the short term - maybe in the medium term - but terrible in the long term. |
| 10:24.07 | telegraphs | http://goo.gl/OOkte flash on winphone7 and blackberry |
| 10:24.23 | telegraphs | I think that since it will have flash, that's going to push sales. |
| 10:29.15 | SpeedEvil | Short term - sure. |
| 10:29.51 | SpeedEvil | The problem is that if WP7 is a success, then lots of phone makers will leap on the bandwagon selling 99% identical in software phones. |
| 10:30.17 | SpeedEvil | And then the margin shirinks, as everyone can make hardware - even the chinese phonemakers. |
| 10:30.26 | telegraphs | lightbulb |
| 10:30.32 | telegraphs | I should develop for windows phone 7 |
| 10:30.58 | SpeedEvil | But if you're going down that route as a phone company - you may as well jump to android - which has a massive intalled base. |
| 10:31.08 | SpeedEvil | Rather than win7 - which is struggling. |
| 10:31.28 | telegraphs | oracle lawsuit maybe bad PR |
| 10:32.20 | telegraphs | maybe microsoft deliberately delayed the release until their opponents platforms faltered in at least one way in the media. |
| 10:32.28 | telegraphs | signal attenuation for iphone 4 |
| 10:32.33 | telegraphs | lawsuit for android |
| 10:36.04 | rzr | no cut n paste on wp7 , what a regression |
| 10:36.24 | telegraphs | eww |
| 10:36.43 | rzr | if only nokia patented it |
| 10:36.47 | rzr | they would add it :) |
| 10:37.14 | rzr | anyway nokia device owners here ? |
| 10:37.20 | rzr | -way |
| 10:37.40 | telegraphs | I'm in the market for a new phone, has to be cheap |
| 10:38.00 | rzr | n900 is still 400EUR |
| 10:38.17 | telegraphs | do americans use nokia at all? |
| 10:38.23 | telegraphs | or is it mostly finns |
| 10:41.59 | SpeedEvil | n900 here - I like it. |
| 10:45.21 | telegraphs | meh, looks like android is where it's at |
| 10:45.59 | telegraphs | oh well, I'm going to leave since I don't really care about openmoko. |
| 10:46.10 | telegraphs | you guys have been really great though, thanks for the talk. |
| 10:46.16 | *** part/#openmoko telegraphs (~telegraph@unaffiliated/shirtless) |
| 10:56.51 | rzr | SpeedEvil: which OS will u expect to run on it in the future ? |
| 10:57.11 | SpeedEvil | At the moment, maemo is working for me. |
| 10:57.28 | rzr | i run it on n8x0 too |
| 10:57.41 | SpeedEvil | I can easily install a fairly wide range of community written apps, as well as run thing son bash/python on the n900. |
| 10:57.49 | rzr | but i think this devices is near to support a free platform |
| 10:57.53 | rzr | ever tried mer ? |
| 10:57.56 | SpeedEvil | Even install GCC and friends without issues. |
| 10:58.16 | SpeedEvil | Mer pretty much died when meego was announced. |
| 10:58.24 | rzr | yes this is the only device that can do a such thing as long a FR |
| 10:58.41 | rzr | i feel it's time to resurect it :) |
| 10:58.46 | rzr | or SHR on NIT |
| 10:59.26 | SpeedEvil | SHR on NIT is already happening |
| 11:02.57 | rzr | i know |
| 11:05.55 | SpeedEvil | hopes another NIT happens. |
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| 15:23.21 | rzr | <PROTECTED> |
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| 15:23.58 | shade-khv1 | hello |
| 15:24.41 | shade-khv1 | i am building image as described on http://shr-project.org/trac/wiki/Building%20SHR but i get error during make image |
| 15:25.01 | shade-khv1 | ERROR: QA Issue with python-sqlite3: package python-sqlite3 contains bad RPATH /media/shr/shr-unstable/tmp/sysroots/armv4t-oe-linux-gnueabi/usr/lib in file /media/shr/shr-unstable/tmp/work/armv4t-oe-linux-gnueabi/python-2.6.5-ml12.3/packages-split/python-sqlite3/usr/lib/python2.6/lib-dynload/_sqlite3.so |
| 15:25.23 | shade-khv1 | how to fix it? |
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| 15:27.38 | shade-khv1 | Guys> |
| 15:27.42 | shade-khv1 | ? |
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| 15:34.28 | leviathan | mickey|office: howdy |
| 15:34.30 | [Rui] | rzr: nokia? yeah, keeps going with a down tendency |
| 15:34.58 | rzr | -20% in a couple of days ... windows is leaking |
| 15:35.04 | SpeedEvil | Well... |
| 15:35.18 | SpeedEvil | Look back over the past month, and the drop compared to ohter troughs is less bad |
| 15:35.20 | SpeedEvil | But still. |
| 15:35.41 | SpeedEvil | Ideally you'd want it to spike the other way on an announcement of the next great leap forward. |
| 15:36.03 | [Rui] | SpeedEvil: this fall is a vote of "confidence" in Nokia's #Elopcalypse |
| 15:36.54 | SpeedEvil | It should be Elopalyps. |
| 15:36.55 | SpeedEvil | e |
| 15:37.00 | SpeedEvil | Otherwise it doesn't scan. |
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| 15:50.39 | shade-khv1 | so can anyone help me with RPATH |
| 15:51.18 | shade-khv1 | i found number of posts about problems with RPATH during building shr image |
| 15:51.24 | shade-khv1 | but no answers |
| 15:51.35 | SpeedEvil | Sorry - no idea. :( |
| 15:52.25 | shade-khv1 | why i get "package python-sqlite3 contains bad RPATH /media/shr/shr-unstable/tmp/sysroots/armv4t-oe-linux-gnueabi/usr/lib " |
| 15:52.30 | shade-khv1 | Pity ^( |
| 15:52.49 | shade-khv1 | did you ever built SHR image? |
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| 15:55.15 | shade-khv1 | how could i exclude python from building? |
| 16:01.28 | SpeedEvil | Nope, sorry |
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| 16:10.41 | shade-khv1 | it there kinda STABLE version to build in shr-project.org? |
| 16:11.06 | shade-khv1 | may shr-unstable be broken? |
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| 16:12.31 | playya | there's a shr-testing branch in OE. don't know how stable it is |
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| 16:14.17 | shade-khv1 | But which of them more stable UNSTABLE or TESTING? |
| 16:17.34 | playya | testing |
| 16:21.57 | shade-khv1 | thanks |
| 16:22.12 | shade-khv1 | if i will fail with shr-unstable i will try testing |
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| 20:58.15 | mandd | any distro that will work well with openmoko usb networking |
| 20:58.20 | mandd | i gave up on ubuntu. |
| 20:58.53 | mandd | wiki recommends knoppix 6.3, |
| 20:58.59 | mandd | but i cant find that version anywhere |
| 20:59.44 | lindi- | mandd: any distro works, you just need to handle it :) |
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| 21:00.49 | gena2x | mandd: all should work, jsut out of box, what's wrong with yours? |
| 21:00.57 | mandd | for sure. but I went over everything, from if-up/down fixes to everything recomended on wiki and beyond |
| 21:01.31 | adiblol | is it possible to set 'monitor' mode on GTA02 integrated WLAN card? |
| 21:01.33 | lindi- | mandd: but did you understand what you were doing? |
| 21:01.50 | lindi- | adiblol: afaik the non-free firmware does not support that |
| 21:02.08 | adiblol | lindi-: but I use open-source firmware. |
| 21:02.29 | PaulFertser | adiblol: unlikely |
| 21:03.09 | adiblol | is it hardware limitation? hardcoded into the atheros module? |
| 21:03.27 | PaulFertser | adiblol: basically, yes. |
| 21:03.44 | lindi- | adiblol: it's a limitation of the non-free firmware running on atheros CPU probably |
| 21:04.23 | adiblol | binary blobs running on atheros, not on main MCU? |
| 21:04.48 | PaulFertser | adiblol: right. |
| 21:05.09 | gena2x | mandd: what is you problem exactly? |
| 21:05.23 | Kamping_Kaiser | mandd: did network-mangller eat your connections? kill it and do things by hand :) |
| 21:05.27 | mandd | disconnectes, drops usb, |
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| 21:05.34 | mandd | i am just trying to get some syslog to paste bin |
| 21:05.49 | mandd | no network manager. |
| 21:06.09 | gena2x | mandd: so you connect cable, do ifup usb0 and what happens? |
| 21:06.36 | mandd | i should have asked before, I'll set it up, and i'll paste syslog to pastebin. |
| 21:06.47 | mandd | maybe with your help! |
| 21:06.56 | mandd | i wont have to loook for knoppix |
| 21:07.13 | gena2x | mandd: it should work in any distro, really |
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| 21:19.54 | Kamping_Kaiser | afk, work :) |
| 21:20.48 | mandd | http://pastebin.com/RcsC9DZa |
| 21:20.49 | mandd | i connect to usb, assign ip/add route |
| 21:20.49 | mandd | all works, until it drops |
| 21:20.53 | mandd | 10 seconds later |
| 21:20.58 | lindi- | mandd: what drops it? |
| 21:21.14 | mandd | its in syslog, I am not sure |
| 21:21.37 | lindi- | mandd: stop processes on at a time to see which one causes it :) |
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| 21:21.52 | mandd | wich once |
| 21:22.03 | mandd | which* |
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| 21:23.06 | gena2x | mandd: i don't know how network manager work, but it look something like this |
| 21:23.51 | gena2x | mandd: 30 seconds then 'no ipv6 routers', hm, was it waiting for DHCP? |
| 21:24.02 | gena2x | brrr |
| 21:24.14 | gena2x | have you setup it in /etc/network/interfaces? |
| 21:24.31 | mandd | yes, before id said waiting, so i changed iterfaces, usb0 set to static |
| 21:24.43 | mandd | adjusted /etc/network/interfaces |
| 21:24.48 | mandd | killed network manager |
| 21:24.55 | mandd | same thing.. |
| 21:24.58 | gena2x | did it rise from dead? |
| 21:25.23 | mandd | no, i have to plug/unplug it |
| 21:25.34 | gena2x | i mean network manager |
| 21:25.59 | mandd | gena2x can I ask you a crazy question |
| 21:26.04 | mandd | just, if it is possible. |
| 21:26.19 | gena2x | you can try... |
| 21:26.51 | mandd | to take Neofreerunner (new one) install debian on it, and than install openvpn cplient on debian and sip client, to connect to pbx over vpn |
| 21:26.59 | mandd | "possible" ? |
| 21:27.20 | mandd | "secure phone" |
| 21:27.27 | gena2x | yes, why not? |
| 21:27.42 | gena2x | over wifi only i think, as gprs is 2g |
| 21:27.53 | mandd | ohh |
| 21:28.03 | mandd | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:28.18 | lindi- | gena2x: FR is not fast enough for voip echo cancellation |
| 21:28.33 | lindi- | gena2x: at least with linphone |
| 21:28.39 | gena2x | lindi-: floating point issue? |
| 21:28.43 | lindi- | gena2x: hard to say |
| 21:28.58 | gena2x | lindi-: easy, need just oprofile it :) |
| 21:29.22 | gena2x | but i never tried, yes. |
| 21:29.24 | mandd | gena2x without 3g it is not possible? |
| 21:29.29 | mandd | over 2g? |
| 21:29.37 | mandd | not fast enough |
| 21:29.38 | mandd | ? |
| 21:29.39 | gena2x | you may try over wifi as i told |
| 21:29.55 | mandd | but if I want it over gsm |
| 21:30.01 | mandd | not wifi |
| 21:30.16 | gena2x | i am not voip expert |
| 21:30.38 | lindi- | mandd: you can connect an external 3G usb device |
| 21:30.56 | gena2x | but i guess 2g bandwidth of 10kb/s is not enought for audio |
| 21:31.24 | gena2x | but sure, you may connect external 3g, as lindi does afaik |
| 21:32.58 | gena2x | mandd: good thing in fr is that you can experiment as much as you want. |
| 21:34.02 | mandd | external 3g |
| 21:34.09 | mandd | like usb cable to 3g modem? |
| 21:34.18 | mandd | or where it some little device? |
| 21:34.24 | mandd | that can snapon ? |
| 21:34.52 | gena2x | mandd: if you never saw usb 3g modems... they are like (older bigger) usb flash. |
| 21:35.07 | mandd | yeah, too big + lotsa of power |
| 21:35.44 | lindi- | mandd: it's the best you can do with FR if you want 3G :) |
| 21:35.56 | lindi- | I have http://www.mobilebroadbandrocks.com/device/huawei-e169 |
| 21:36.29 | gena2x | let's hope we'll be able to buy gta04 soon |
| 21:38.43 | gena2x | with that nokia's actions it gets some real chances |
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| 21:48.19 | tomcatek | wiem |
| 21:52.38 | Kamping_Kaiser | is nokia behaving worse then usual again? |
| 21:52.50 | Kamping_Kaiser | or is it just old news that i'm not aware of? |
| 21:52.55 | PaulFertser | Kamping_Kaiser: missed the big friday news? |
| 21:53.02 | Kamping_Kaiser | PaulFertser: yeah |
| 21:53.28 | PaulFertser | Kamping_Kaiser: http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/press/2011/feb11/02-11partnership.mspx |
| 21:53.44 | Kamping_Kaiser | ah. the clue is in the uri. |
| 21:53.47 | Kamping_Kaiser | *looks* |
| 21:55.26 | Kamping_Kaiser | guess neither of them does android, so they need each other now to feel relevant. shame about anyone in nokia who was doing free software work though |
| 21:55.53 | gena2x | it is interesting, how qt guys will feel after this, would be they have any plans to leave nokia and continue working on qt :) opensource allows this... |
| 21:57.51 | Kamping_Kaiser | or will qt windows support get a whole lot more testing... |
| 21:58.29 | gena2x | i think ms guy will not tolerate such cross-platform thing for a long time. |
| 21:58.36 | gena2x | s/guy/guys/ |
| 22:01.32 | Kamping_Kaiser | slaps apt |
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