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| 17:29.07 | adiblol | are Om.2008 (GTK) phone applications being ported to FSO? Or they are deprecated and discontinued? |
| 17:32.37 | mickeyl | 2008 was Qt & Enlightenment, 2007 was gtk. both are discontinued. SHR/FSO is where most folks are working with, and then QtMoko and Debian. |
| 17:33.50 | adiblol | does installing SHR phone suite make sense? |
| 17:33.53 | adiblol | on debian. |
| 17:38.03 | mickeyl | i'm not sure whether SHR packages exists for debian |
| 17:38.17 | mickeyl | wrt. FSO debian is cursed with very old packages I'm afraid |
| 17:38.50 | mickeyl | since the debian model doesn't work well for stuff in development |
| 17:39.00 | mickeyl | then again, worth a try |
| 17:41.14 | adiblol | i remember FSO or other unofficial repo contains shr phone apps |
| 17:44.18 | lindi- | adiblol: the largest problems with FSO vrt. debian are that it depends on a new compiler that is not in debian yet |
| 17:44.51 | lindi- | mickeyl: couldn't you just publish released versions that contain generated C code so that debian would not need to run valac? |
| 17:45.10 | adiblol | lindi-: valac is not in debian?!?! |
| 17:45.28 | lindi- | adiblol: afaik FSO depends on bug fixes that are only in newer versions |
| 17:45.38 | mickeyl | lindi-: yes, i can cut a set of releases |
| 17:51.08 | adiblol | so... is there any GTK/QT (not e17) FSO-compatible phone GUI? |
| 17:51.46 | lindi- | adiblol: I some for my own use but they probably won't work with vala based fso |
| 17:52.08 | lindi- | adiblol: wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/user:lindi documents some of it |
| 17:53.12 | adiblol | ... or any way to make e17 apps look like the rest of GUI? i mean - to use GTK as backend? |
| 17:54.28 | lindi- | adiblol: that sounds hard |
| 17:54.48 | adiblol | no, i dont want to write my own wrappers |
| 17:56.17 | lindi- | adiblol: what do you mean? |
| 17:56.52 | adiblol | if there is no method, i dont want to think and code one. |
| 17:57.58 | lindi- | adiblol: I'm afraid thinking is required on a development platform :) |
| 17:58.33 | adiblol | but not about GUI :) |
| 18:00.54 | mickeyl | well, someone could always take the old 2007 apps and port them to use a better middleware |
| 18:01.13 | Gabrys | BTW, I got a new HTC Desire |
| 18:01.30 | Gabrys | it's interface and usability is outstanding |
| 18:01.42 | mickeyl | i sincerely hope it's better than the Nexus One |
| 18:01.45 | Gabrys | (compared to SHR for example) |
| 18:01.49 | mickeyl | which is merely crap |
| 18:02.00 | mickeyl | i can't understand why they released such a bad phone |
| 18:02.02 | mickeyl | *shrug* |
| 18:02.25 | lindi- | Gabrys: is the interface free software? |
| 18:02.29 | Gabrys | mickeyl: and what do you mean? hardware or software of Nexus one? |
| 18:02.44 | Gabrys | lindi-: I'm not sure, it's Android + HTC stuff |
| 18:02.48 | mickeyl | Gabrys: both, in fact. the hardware feels cheap, the sensor buttons are a nightmare, the software is sluggish |
| 18:02.49 | Gabrys | Froyo BTW |
| 18:02.57 | lindi- | Gabrys: better check it out before advertising on freenode :) |
| 18:03.35 | Gabrys | the software is very liberal for user (maybe not for developer though) |
| 18:03.50 | Gabrys | it finally allows you to do a 3G-over-wifi hotspot without any hacks |
| 18:04.11 | SpeedEvil | I love my n900. |
| 18:04.12 | Gabrys | so I haven't rooted my phone and still have no reason to do so |
| 18:04.31 | Gabrys | the software doesn't restricts the user |
| 18:04.39 | SpeedEvil | No rooting required, and you need about 3 commands to install gcc if you want to. |
| 18:04.46 | adiblol | after debian upgrade launching apps from ancient Om 2007 no longer works... |
| 18:05.13 | SpeedEvil | My neo1973 is awaiting recycling into a microwave oven controller when I get round it. |
| 18:05.15 | mickeyl | yes, the n900 is not bad. i still feel they missed some opportunities wrt. hardware quality, but it's solid |
| 18:05.31 | SpeedEvil | With internet enabled webcam of the inside. |
| 18:05.36 | mickeyl | nice idea |
| 18:05.38 | SpeedEvil | mickeyl: In what way? |
| 18:06.01 | Gabrys | and feature that just rocks is that it can last for 5 days on suspend with wifi on, still getting e-mail and notifying about them |
| 18:06.20 | SpeedEvil | Gabrys: n900 is more or less the same. |
| 18:06.30 | mickeyl | keyboard could be better, and the case material doesn't harmonize with my feelings |
| 18:06.50 | SpeedEvil | mickeyl: Fair enough. I got up to about 35wpm on it when my laptop broke. |
| 18:06.57 | SpeedEvil | which is plenty for me. |
| 18:07.22 | mickeyl | SpeedEvil: true. i just wish it had the HTC Touch Pro's keyboard |
| 18:07.38 | mickeyl | best keyboard since psion jumped the shark |
| 18:07.40 | SpeedEvil | Never played with one. |
| 18:07.45 | Gabrys | HTC Desire keyboard is pretty cool too |
| 18:08.17 | Gabrys | also N900 is more expensive than Desire |
| 18:08.19 | SpeedEvil | I'm adding a compass and gyro to mine, to add direction info to pictures I take. |
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| 18:08.43 | SpeedEvil | I managed to get to under half price with rebates - so it wasn't so bad for me. |
| 18:09.21 | Gabrys | nice |
| 18:10.42 | Gabrys | I'm not sure what to do with my FreeRunner now |
| 18:11.30 | lindi- | Gabrys: run the android + htc stuff on it? |
| 18:11.37 | SpeedEvil | http://ukhas.org.uk/ |
| 18:12.00 | Gabrys | lindi-: on FreeRunner? |
| 18:12.22 | lindi- | Gabrys: yeah |
| 18:12.53 | Gabrys | I tried to improve android on freerunner, but I need to sadly say it sucks |
| 18:13.06 | lindi- | Gabrys: any particular reason? |
| 18:13.23 | Gabrys | lindi-: development is hard for many reasons |
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| 18:13.50 | Gabrys | I didn't manage to compile any working (non-static) C program for Android >1.5 |
| 18:14.13 | Gabrys | I wanted to have the bluetooth fix/workaround on Android |
| 18:14.38 | Gabrys | there's non-standard C compiler, non-standard "make", non-standard stdclib |
| 18:14.58 | Gabrys | for some reason programs compiled for 1.5 are not compatible with 2.0 |
| 18:15.07 | adiblol | Gabrys: ignore android ;] |
| 18:15.35 | Gabrys | for, say, "low-level" developer android for freerunner is quite messy |
| 18:16.01 | Gabrys | but ports of android for other HTC phones originally running WinMo |
| 18:16.06 | Gabrys | are quite successful |
| 18:16.22 | Gabrys | so probably there's either something wrong with android-on-freerunner project |
| 18:16.38 | Gabrys | or the hardware is too different from originally-android-phone |
| 18:16.48 | radekp | Gabrys: they are succesfull probably because winmobile is such crap :) |
| 18:16.57 | Gabrys | (while those WinMo models are close to some Android phones) |
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| 18:17.19 | Gabrys | FreeRunner is ARMv4 |
| 18:17.24 | Gabrys | which sucks badly |
| 18:18.18 | Gabrys | after that many years of development we still don't have support for it in mainline kernel |
| 18:18.18 | radekp | i think android would need decent rootfs - e.g. debian |
| 18:18.21 | Gabrys | which also sucks |
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| 18:18.36 | Gabrys | android as a userspace package for Debian would be cool |
| 18:18.55 | radekp | yup that was my idea :) |
| 18:19.13 | adiblol | Gabrys: what about framework daemon compatibility? |
| 18:19.15 | Gabrys | in fact I believe it's not that hard to write apk-runner |
| 18:19.18 | adiblol | android uses its own. |
| 18:20.01 | Gabrys | apk-runner would be an application that let's you run apk application, display them and have them access some resources of the phone |
| 18:20.13 | lindi- | Gabrys: would that really be so useful? |
| 18:20.16 | Gabrys | not necceserily all of them, some may be harder to translate than others |
| 18:20.38 | Gabrys | sure, many android applications are cool |
| 18:20.47 | Gabrys | and they are designed to be run on small device |
| 18:21.01 | Gabrys | in contrary to plenty of apps we can run on FR |
| 18:21.01 | lindi- | Gabrys: I understood many are not free software though? |
| 18:21.08 | Gabrys | lindi-: who cares |
| 18:21.13 | lindi- | Gabrys: I do |
| 18:21.17 | Gabrys | many are BTW |
| 18:21.26 | lindi- | maybe enough are to make it worth it |
| 18:21.27 | Gabrys | there are plenty of open source applications and libs for Android |
| 18:21.57 | Gabrys | FR is cool because it can run plenty of open source apps there are available |
| 18:22.14 | Gabrys | but how many of them is it really cool to run on FR |
| 18:22.35 | Gabrys | and how many Android apps it would be cool to have running on FR even without having them make calls for you |
| 18:22.43 | Gabrys | just GUI + internet |
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| 18:23.01 | Gabrys | and calls, SMS, contact list in future maybe |
| 18:23.58 | Gabrys | Android infrastructure would allow you to make wrappers for calling, volume control, SMS and probably other functionality to other frameworks if you need |
| 18:24.37 | Gabrys | adiblol: so it's still possible to have "most" of android running on top of GNU/Linux |
| 18:26.03 | lindi- | Gabrys: hmm, is there some way to find Free Software android apps? |
| 18:26.06 | adiblol | majority of android apps is shit like window$ apps |
| 18:26.20 | adiblol | trial, adware, paid... |
| 18:26.26 | adiblol | proprietary |
| 18:26.50 | Gabrys | lindi-: there are a bunch of them under http://code.google.com/p/apps-for-android/ |
| 18:26.52 | adiblol | majority of debian/SHR/whatever apps are FLOSS programs. |
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| 18:27.27 | adiblol | sound works at all, but i cant enable the speaker <facepalm /> |
| 18:27.52 | lindi- | Gabrys: yeah but is it easy to find them if most are non-free? |
| 18:28.56 | Gabrys | lindi-: I am not sure, never tried |
| 18:29.30 | adiblol | why do you mind android at all? it's crap ;] |
| 18:29.57 | Gabrys | even if it's crap, it's usable |
| 18:30.15 | Gabrys | the only usable distribution for FreeRunner was QtMoko |
| 18:30.38 | adiblol | SOUND WORKS... |
| 18:32.08 | adiblol | f&^*ing pulseaudio... |
| 18:32.27 | adiblol | who installed it in this image?!?! |
| 18:32.29 | *** join/#openmoko eolson (~eolson@maze.mcs.anl.gov) |
| 18:32.56 | adiblol | but on PC pulseaudio does _NOT_ suck. |
| 18:35.09 | adiblol | i even thought about creating my own GUI library for mobile devices, which would be fast, not pretty ... but _another_ API is not what we want... |
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| 18:35.51 | Gabrys | Enlightenment should be banned from SHR. It's too pretty :-) |
| 18:36.28 | adiblol | "my GUI library" would provide GTK backend, that's the difference. |
| 18:37.11 | adiblol | or pure X window controls ;D |
| 18:39.57 | adiblol | but.... actually regular GTK is fast enough. |
| 18:40.16 | adiblol | the problem is with app that uses it (openmoko-today) |
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| 19:19.28 | badcloud | how do I blank screen using xset? |
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| 19:22.12 | PaulFertser | badcloud: xset s activate |
| 19:22.32 | PaulFertser | badcloud: if dpms is supported then xset dpms force off |
| 19:23.06 | badcloud | PaulFertser: thanks, dpms doesn't seem supported in qtmoko |
| 19:23.26 | badcloud | and xset s activate works, but something causes the screen to go right back on |
| 19:24.55 | badcloud | no clues in dmesg |
| 19:25.02 | PaulFertser | badcloud: try sleep 0,1 ; xset s activate |
| 19:25.10 | PaulFertser | (or 0.1 if your locale prefers that) |
| 19:26.14 | badcloud | PaulFertser: nice! that did the trick! |
| 19:26.17 | badcloud | thanks so much |
| 19:26.21 | PaulFertser | :) |
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| 22:03.24 | slaxxer | whathell |
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| 23:11.52 | badcloud | slaxxer: what? |
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