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| 10:50.03 | ringve | hello |
| 10:50.12 | ringve | does Android work well on the Openmoko? |
| 10:50.23 | ringve | the freerunner* |
| 10:50.53 | ringve | I want a functional phone aswell as some of the freerunner's freedom. Is Android a good bet? |
| 10:54.45 | ringve | or QtMoko maybe? I just thought Android sounds fun because of all the apps |
| 10:58.06 | dns53 | android works great |
| 10:58.30 | ringve | could you compare it to the others? is it bad at something? |
| 10:59.16 | dns53 | qtmoko is stable but a few apps, it is solid if all you want is a phone |
| 10:59.54 | dns53 | shr is a good if you want a linux based device with normal linux apps |
| 11:00.21 | dns53 | android is good but you do not have market access, there are third party markets and you can download a lot of apk's directly |
| 11:01.17 | ringve | apk? |
| 11:01.51 | lindi- | debian is good if you want free software and packages that conform to a well defined policy :) |
| 11:03.27 | gena2x | ringve: qtmoko IS debian |
| 11:03.38 | lindi- | gena2x: it doesn't follow the debian policy at all |
| 11:03.56 | lindi- | yes, it uses the debian package format but also that only for some binaries |
| 11:04.01 | ringve | how are they all for calling and SMS tho? |
| 11:04.32 | lindi- | gena2x: maybe it was more debian in the past |
| 11:05.13 | dns53 | ringve an apk is a software package for android |
| 11:06.09 | gena2x | we viewing it from different points of view. for me debian is just excellent distribution, easy to use understand and install, and free enought to my current criteria. and very important that it is community driven. |
| 11:06.11 | lindi- | gena2x: of course there are different definitions I guess but at least one assumes that in a debian system your binaries are part of some package so that they can be upgraded |
| 11:06.21 | gena2x | hehe |
| 11:06.43 | gena2x | ok, i can say qtmoko is debian + qt |
| 11:06.51 | gena2x | s/qt/qtextended/ |
| 11:06.53 | lindi- | gena2x: - copyright information |
| 11:07.09 | gena2x | i think qt/extended license is ok? |
| 11:07.20 | lindi- | gena2x: + omhacks ripped from git.debian.org and built using custom qtextended buildsystem instead of the debian source package :) |
| 11:07.42 | lindi- | gena2x: yep but they don't afaik include the licensing information |
| 11:07.55 | lindi- | (probably to save space) |
| 11:08.41 | gena2x | hmm. i think as it is (l?)gpl, it is stated somewhere and license is also exist somewhere on fs |
| 11:09.45 | ringve | soo |
| 11:09.45 | ringve | which do i want? |
| 11:09.49 | gena2x | ringve: just try em |
| 11:09.58 | gena2x | it's not hard and interesting |
| 11:10.40 | lindi- | gena2x: "find | grep copyright" does not find anything |
| 11:10.54 | lindi- | gena2x: debian policy makes it mandatory for a file named "copyright" to exist for every single package |
| 11:11.03 | gena2x | i'll boot it for you after i check my patch finally |
| 11:11.40 | gena2x | ok. i personlly do not like separate package system of qtmoko too |
| 11:11.41 | dns53 | i think qtopia was lgpl but i'm not sure |
| 11:12.22 | gena2x | but for me placement of copyright file is not important :) |
| 11:12.40 | lindi- | gena2x: yep but calling something debian usually implies something about quality |
| 11:13.01 | gena2x | ah, sure. sorry. |
| 11:13.02 | lindi- | gena2x: at best I'd call it a debian derivative |
| 11:13.06 | gena2x | nono |
| 11:13.18 | dns53 | it also implies that i could add a repo and install the desktop or remove it |
| 11:13.24 | gena2x | i'll say debian + qt/extended in future :) |
| 11:13.36 | lindi- | dns53: ah, wishful thinking :) |
| 11:13.43 | lindi- | sorry meant gena2x |
| 11:13.47 | lindi- | but I guess it applies to both |
| 11:13.56 | gena2x | hehe |
| 11:14.07 | gena2x | ok, i've back to damn toolchain |
| 11:14.47 | lindi- | gena2x: yeah the omhacks packaging was somewhat shocking to us: http://paste.debian.net/89642/ |
| 11:15.15 | ringve | thanks, gotta go |
| 11:17.53 | gena2x | heh interesting. i can understand you but i agree with radek. hope qtmoko will move to unstable soon and omhacks will be installed via dpkg |
| 11:18.47 | gena2x | ok, better say - hope new stable will be released soon :) |
| 11:19.03 | lindi- | gena2x: using stable is a good thing but they should have created backports for the new packages instead of dropping binaries to /opt |
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| 11:46.31 | radekp | lindi-: qtmoko packaging is just lack of time - it's not that i am not wiling to change it, if someone contributes proper deb packages i am all for using it |
| 11:48.39 | radekp | lindi-: i would be more than happy to do apt-get install qtmoko and have working phone on top of debian |
| 11:49.14 | lindi- | radekp: I guess we could provide a backport of omhacks for lenny |
| 11:49.30 | lindi- | radekp: we just didn't know there was need |
| 11:50.06 | lindi- | radekp: qtmoko stuff is bit complex though? it includes the gsm daemon as well as applications that talk to framebuffer? |
| 11:50.31 | radekp | that would be nice, for me it was just fastest to do qbuild package, but i would be happy to switch to debian package |
| 11:51.11 | gena2x | wait, wait guys. qtmoko package already exist |
| 11:51.20 | lindi- | not in debian |
| 11:51.28 | gena2x | sure, but exist |
| 11:51.29 | radekp | lindi-: i dont think it's daemon - it's more set of libraries + program |
| 11:51.58 | radekp | i think package which cannot build from sources is not very debianish - or am i wrong? |
| 11:51.59 | lindi- | radekp: what talks to /dev/ttySAC1? |
| 11:52.17 | radekp | lindi-: qpe application |
| 11:52.17 | lindi- | radekp: software needs to be built from source code yes |
| 11:52.29 | lindi- | radekp: so we'd need to package qpe first? |
| 11:52.47 | radekp | lindi-: no i think first we need qt for framebuffer |
| 11:53.14 | radekp | lindi-: btw does debian support cross compiling well? |
| 11:53.40 | lindi- | radekp: packages can optionally support cross-compiling but they don't need to. all official packages must be built natively |
| 11:54.17 | radekp | lindi-: but how do we handle it? It takes 3 hours to build all from scratch on my Core 2 Duo 2.5Ghz |
| 11:55.05 | lindi- | radekp: if it is in debian then debian builds it |
| 11:55.15 | lindi- | radekp: or do you mean how would you develop it? |
| 11:55.24 | radekp | lindi-: yes |
| 11:56.08 | radekp | lindi-: i cant imagine that i change something and then i will wait 4 days until my freerunner compiles it |
| 11:56.31 | lindi- | radekp: well first of all if something takes 3 hours to build on amd64 you probably want to split it to smaller packages |
| 11:56.52 | lindi- | radekp: so that you can work only one package at a time |
| 11:57.38 | radekp | lindi-: but i change the package in the bottom layer? e.g. if i upgrade or cherry pick something to qt... |
| 11:57.58 | lindi- | radekp: you need a custom qt? |
| 11:58.14 | lindi- | radekp: you need to get that done through the qt maintainers in debian |
| 11:58.21 | radekp | lindi-: i think it's same source code as for QT-x11 but with different configure switches |
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| 11:59.13 | lindi- | radekp: I'm not sure if another copy of the same source tree will be allowed. it's a lot of work for the security team if an issue is found |
| 12:00.35 | lindi- | radekp: what's the upstream source tarball for that qt stuff? |
| 12:00.45 | lindi- | (so that I can check it against debian) |
| 12:01.36 | radekp | lindi-: i dont use tarball i use git |
| 12:01.56 | radekp | lindi-: http://github.com/radekp/qt |
| 12:02.30 | radekp | lindi-: i use qt 4.5.3 |
| 12:02.39 | radekp | lindi-: http://github.com/radekp/qt/tree/qtmoko-v18 is the correct source treee |
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| 12:18.01 | lindi- | radekp: hmm, does github need javascript? ;) |
| 12:18.40 | radekp | lindi-: hmm no idea, but it was using flash for the network graph :) |
| 12:18.57 | lindi- | I guess 'git clone http://github.com/radekp/qt.git' should work |
| 12:19.29 | radekp | lindi-: yes that should be ok |
| 12:20.10 | radekp | lindi-: but it's just regular qt git |
| 12:20.54 | lindi- | radekp: so why can't qtmoko use regular qt from debian? |
| 12:20.55 | radekp | lindi-: +3 small patches |
| 12:21.14 | radekp | lindi-: because qt in debian runs on X11 |
| 12:21.27 | lindi- | radekp: so it is a build option? |
| 12:21.33 | radekp | lindi-: i think so |
| 12:21.46 | lindi- | radekp: debian could simply build both versions from the same source package? |
| 12:21.58 | radekp | lindi-: yes |
| 12:22.38 | radekp | lindi-: i dont know if there is similar package in debian - which builds two binaries from the same source code |
| 12:22.53 | lindi- | radekp: there are many |
| 12:22.57 | radekp | lindi-: but i dont see any problem why it should not be possible |
| 12:23.00 | lindi- | radekp: omhacks for example |
| 12:23.04 | lindi- | radekp: is three binary packages |
| 12:23.15 | lindi- | radekp: library, development headers and the command line tool |
| 12:23.27 | lindi- | all built from the same source package |
| 12:24.48 | lindi- | radekp: "qt4-x11" source package says "Copyright (C) 2010 Nokia Corporation and/or its subsidiary(-ies)." says "Copyright (C) 2010 Nokia Corporation and/or its subsidiary(-ies)." |
| 12:24.58 | lindi- | radekp: but your git has "Copyright (C) 2009 Nokia Corporation and/or its subsidiary(-ies)." |
| 12:25.05 | lindi- | radekp: so you are using an older version? |
| 12:26.11 | radekp | lindi-: yes |
| 12:26.26 | lindi- | radekp: does qtmoko work with a newer version? |
| 12:26.30 | radekp | lindi-: i tried to upgrade to 4.6 but there were some bugs |
| 12:26.39 | radekp | lindi-: but probably fixable |
| 12:26.43 | lindi- | radekp: could qtmoko just use X11? |
| 12:27.54 | radekp | lindi-: that was already here as OM2007.12 or something like that - it was slow crap |
| 12:28.06 | radekp | OM 2008.12 |
| 12:28.56 | lindi- | radekp: if it is stable I'd appreciate it |
| 12:29.33 | radekp | lindi-: it was slow, with many QT patches that were not accepted in upstream QT |
| 12:31.14 | radekp | lindi-: it would be nice to have such option, but it's not for production use |
| 12:31.30 | radekp | lindi-: there was mail from raster explaining why it will never be good |
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| 12:47.05 | lindi- | radekp: if upstream does not want it then it is very possible debian does not want to maintain it either |
| 12:53.56 | radekp | lindi-: ahh sorry i ment it was not accepted in mainstream QtExteneded |
| 12:56.07 | radekp | lindi-: maybe there were also X11-QT patches QtExtended specific, anyway i think porting qtmoko to X11 is waste of time |
| 12:57.03 | lindi- | radekp: is it that different? |
| 12:57.48 | radekp | lindi-: from users POV it does not bring any advantages - it will only eat more memory and it will be slow |
| 12:58.31 | radekp | lindi-: Nokia maintains running QT on framebuffer - so qtmoko on framebuffer is supported project |
| 12:58.47 | lindi- | hmm, now away.. |
| 12:58.55 | radekp | lindi-: it works and it's supported |
| 12:59.04 | lindi- | but you need to get it to debian first |
| 12:59.08 | radekp | lindi-: qtopia on X11 does not work |
| 12:59.14 | lindi- | before any applications that use it can be packaged |
| 12:59.59 | radekp | yes, i think we should take a look at libqt4-X11 packages and see what can be done |
| 13:00.32 | radekp | i can dump configure switches that are used to build qt for framebuffer |
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| 22:27.35 | *** topic/#openmoko is Users of Openmoko Mobile Phone Hardware | WikiReader users, please join #openmoko-wikireader | Developers, please join #openmoko-cdevel | German folks might consider to join #openmoko-de | New Users read http://wiki.openmoko.org + http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html | Make sure to check http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Om_2009 |
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