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| 01:01.06 | zzhan17 | hello, anybody here? |
| 01:01.33 | zzhan17 | i am a new comer and want to burn NEOPhysis image on my freerunner |
| 01:02.12 | zzhan17 | when i uncompress the rootfs .tar.gz, what I found is the root fs directory instead of a .jffs2 image |
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| 01:02.47 | zzhan17 | how to make the root directory into jffs2? or how to burn it to freerunner correctly? |
| 01:03.05 | zzhan17 | could anyone answer my questions? thanks |
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| 03:16.30 | luke-jr | what's the key for #openmoko-devel ? |
| 03:23.53 | naught101 | are there any packages that contain OSM maps? |
| 03:26.54 | naught101 | also, does anyone know if stopping autosuspend works when your quit settings in SHR now? |
| 03:30.26 | SpeedEvil | The OSM maps are a few dozen terabytes. |
| 03:30.38 | SpeedEvil | They won't fit on most SD cards. |
| 03:30.50 | luke-jr | ouch |
| 03:30.58 | luke-jr | why so insanely big? |
| 03:31.07 | SpeedEvil | It's a PNG of the planet. |
| 03:31.12 | luke-jr | not even the commercial products require *that* much space |
| 03:31.13 | luke-jr | .. |
| 03:31.22 | luke-jr | OSM is bitmap data? |
| 03:31.24 | SpeedEvil | At down to around a meter a pixel. |
| 03:31.39 | SpeedEvil | There are bitmaps and other data formats. |
| 03:32.21 | naught101 | SpeedEvil: yeah, I guess I was hoping on per-area packages, and low-res world packages |
| 03:32.34 | naught101 | not that hard to download them though... |
| 03:33.00 | SpeedEvil | naught101: bitmaps would be very large and need to be updated perhaps weekly. |
| 03:33.33 | luke-jr | I thought OSM just had road data |
| 03:33.43 | SpeedEvil | It does. |
| 03:33.55 | naught101 | SpeedEvil: yeah, fair enough |
| 03:33.57 | SpeedEvil | One presentation of this data - the form used by most mobile mapping systems is tiles. |
| 03:34.17 | luke-jr | SpeedEvil: crappy mapping systems* |
| 03:34.38 | SpeedEvil | Another format is postprocessed vectors. |
| 03:34.43 | Kamping_Kaiser | naught101: navit can use cloudmaps data |
| 03:34.43 | SpeedEvil | from the xml data. |
| 03:34.57 | Kamping_Kaiser | a full navit xml is 4~ GB atm |
| 03:34.58 | SpeedEvil | The XML data is ~160G. |
| 03:35.05 | Kamping_Kaiser | don't know about the upstream |
| 03:35.12 | Kamping_Kaiser | heh. now i know about upstream :) |
| 03:35.27 | SpeedEvil | cloudmade data is just OSM data |
| 03:35.41 | Kamping_Kaiser | yeah |
| 03:35.42 | SpeedEvil | cloudmade slices out extracts of this data |
| 03:45.02 | naught101 | ok |
| 03:59.50 | naught101 | when I start tangoGPS I get the message "No gpsd found" |
| 04:00.07 | naught101 | even though this is a fresh SHR install, and fso-gpsd IS running |
| 04:00.22 | naught101 | any hints? |
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| 04:21.18 | SpeedEvil | Sorry, no clue. |
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| 04:38.07 | naught101 | it is actually working, never mind.. just says it while it's starting up.. |
| 04:40.42 | naught101 | how can I set the AUX button to lock the screen/run SHR today? |
| 04:40.53 | naught101 | SHR-today |
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| 04:45.10 | naught101 | never mind... |
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| 06:22.24 | naught101 | should iliwi ask me for a password when it tries to connect to my WPA2 wifi? |
| 06:23.37 | PaulFertser | naught101: i guess yes |
| 06:24.06 | naught101 | hrm... doesn't seem to.. |
| 06:24.32 | naught101 | just tries to connect without one |
| 06:24.38 | vanous | naught101: it does, on the same screen where you press connect |
| 06:25.02 | naught101 | oh, yeah, I see |
| 06:25.55 | naught101 | thanks |
| 06:26.30 | vanous | naught101: yup, it's easily overlooked |
| 06:30.57 | PaulFertser | Is that iliwi a worthy thing? I'm sometimes getting a little bit unhappy about editing wpa_supplicant.conf manually on the road. |
| 06:32.31 | PaulFertser | OTOH in fact it doesn't take much time and i have to do it only once anyway for every new AP which is not often. |
| 06:42.03 | radekp | PaulFertser: hi, i am now playing with 2.6.34 kernel and i would like to ask if you remember problem described here: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/hardware/2009-February/001032.html |
| 06:42.17 | PaulFertser | radekp: hi :) |
| 06:42.19 | radekp | PaulFertser: i think there is similar problem on 2.6.34 kernel |
| 06:42.28 | PaulFertser | radekp: sure i do |
| 06:42.40 | PaulFertser | radekp: probably the same is with 2.6.32 |
| 06:43.00 | radekp | is it fixable? |
| 06:43.26 | PaulFertser | radekp: sure, it's not a hardware issue. Just the UART lines should be tristated before powering the modem off. |
| 06:44.03 | radekp | is it this commit? http://git.openmoko.org/?p=kernel.git;a=commit;h=699298c9ccf37cd116e485523c15c184781e5063 |
| 06:44.26 | PaulFertser | radekp: 8df75a337131d835d4dd8509696d684e4fa8970e |
| 06:47.04 | radekp | PaulFertser: oki, thanks, i'll try to understand it :) |
| 06:49.07 | radekp | PaulFertser: btw do you know what this line does? pcf50633_gpio_set(gta02_pcf, PCF50633_GPIO2, 7); |
| 06:49.26 | radekp | what 7 means here |
| 06:49.30 | radekp | ? |
| 06:54.24 | PaulFertser | radekp: hm |
| 06:54.44 | PaulFertser | radekp: i guess that means "output 1" on the line. |
| 06:55.22 | PaulFertser | radekp: pcf50633 uses other values to output 1 conditionally (depending on some inputs or other outputs). But 7 means do it unconditionally. |
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| 08:54.58 | chomwitt_ | i get a MMS . since shr doesn support , where sms are saved, so that i can trasfer it ? |
| 08:55.21 | PaulFertser | chomwitt_: opimd |
| 08:55.30 | PaulFertser | chomwitt_: you can get it with opimd-cli |
| 08:55.40 | chomwitt_ | PaulFertser: thanks! |
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| 09:58.25 | *** topic/#openmoko is Users of Openmoko Mobile Phone Hardware | WikiReader users, please join #openmoko-wikireader | Developers, please join #openmoko-cdevel | German folks might consider to join #openmoko-de | New Users read http://wiki.openmoko.org + http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html | Make sure to check http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Om_2009 |
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| 13:22.17 | DelphiWorld | hi people there |
| 13:22.25 | DelphiWorld | doe openmoko is related to openembedded? |
| 13:22.38 | PaulFertser | DelphiWorld: kind of |
| 13:22.44 | PaulFertser | DelphiWorld: what exactly are you interested in? |
| 13:22.50 | DelphiWorld | PaulFertser: thank you |
| 13:22.57 | DelphiWorld | PaulFertser: to build my own personalised embedded image |
| 13:23.01 | DelphiWorld | pauif yanuou could help |
| 13:23.13 | PaulFertser | DelphiWorld: SHR distro is openembedded based. |
| 13:23.18 | DelphiWorld | paualso if you see me hard to understand i'm realy sory because i have some shell dificulty because i'm blind |
| 13:23.35 | DelphiWorld | PaulFertser: also if you see me hard to understand i'm realy sory because i have some shell dificulty because i'm blind |
| 13:23.58 | PaulFertser | DelphiWorld: i hope this won't be an issue |
| 13:24.12 | DelphiWorld | PaulFertser: yep, me also |
| 13:24.25 | DelphiWorld | PaulFertser: i use win32 to access my centOs that i'm building in |
| 13:24.33 | DelphiWorld | PaulFertser: but issus with bitbake |
| 13:24.47 | PaulFertser | DelphiWorld: i think for a customized image i would take SHR as a base and added packages/configuration i need to it. |
| 13:25.14 | DelphiWorld | PaulFertser: any luck how to start, please? |
| 13:25.50 | *** join/#openmoko suvir (~suvir@ppp-124-122-145-101.revip2.asianet.co.th) |
| 13:26.04 | PaulFertser | DelphiWorld: hm, i have to warn you in advance that OE can be hard. What kind of custamisation exactly would you like to have? |
| 13:26.05 | DelphiWorld | PaulFertser: suv is my friend that is doing and helping me with linux shell |
| 13:26.09 | PaulFertser | Probably there's another way round. |
| 13:26.20 | DelphiWorld | PaulFertser: ok, i will explin: |
| 13:26.23 | suvir | hi paul |
| 13:26.26 | PaulFertser | suvir: hi :) |
| 13:26.29 | DelphiWorld | me and suvir we are a members of #freeswitch community |
| 13:26.38 | DelphiWorld | that is a open source media switching platform for VoIp |
| 13:26.50 | PaulFertser | Nice to meet you folks :) |
| 13:26.57 | DelphiWorld | and we are trying to build custom embedded image to put freeswitch into any hardware |
| 13:27.07 | suvir | :) |
| 13:27.08 | DelphiWorld | and include lighttpd / mysql or sqlite / php |
| 13:27.16 | DelphiWorld | thank you PaulFertser;) |
| 13:28.05 | PaulFertser | DelphiWorld: so basically you want to have a filesystem image that can be put to the Freerunner's NAND flash that has that software preinstalled, right? |
| 13:28.34 | DelphiWorld | PaulFertser: yes, and a custom distro name, i wanna name it PowerPBX;) |
| 13:29.02 | suvir | paul i am here to learn and to be the eyes of delphiworld |
| 13:29.09 | PaulFertser | DelphiWorld: ok, then one have to start with the Building SHR wikipage, and to build at least the stock image successfully. |
| 13:29.25 | PaulFertser | suvir: http://shr-project.org/trac/wiki/Building%20SHR |
| 13:30.05 | suvir | paul i have book marked that page |
| 13:30.07 | DelphiWorld | PaulFertser: have you heare about freeswitch yet? |
| 13:30.17 | suvir | paul i though openmoko was a mobile platform? |
| 13:30.25 | DelphiWorld | yes, suvir |
| 13:30.42 | PaulFertser | suvir: once that works, you can add an additional inc file specifying extra packages you want to have in your image (you can use shr-full image vs shr-lite image as an example). |
| 13:30.46 | DelphiWorld | suvir: openmoko can run in nokia N900 i think;) |
| 13:30.50 | suvir | is there active development still going on for openmoko |
| 13:30.54 | PaulFertser | suvir: yes, it's basically a smartphone. |
| 13:31.04 | PaulFertser | suvir: openmoko is particular hardware now. |
| 13:31.27 | DelphiWorld | PaulFertser: yes, opensourced design |
| 13:31.31 | PaulFertser | suvir: some run Debian on it, some OE-based distros, some OpenWRT, some qtopia-related software and so on. |
| 13:31.32 | suvir | paul i was very interested when i read about openmoko but about 2 years ago many people said it was in the infancy stage |
| 13:31.52 | PaulFertser | suvir: well, i'm using it as my only cellphone but it's pita. But quite fun. |
| 13:32.21 | suvir | paul I remember the price of the hardware at that time was pretty high |
| 13:32.27 | suvir | the development kit |
| 13:32.42 | PaulFertser | DelphiWorld: yes, i've heard about freeswitch (as in "we're not using asterisk, we're freeswitch fans") but i haven't tried using anything like that yet. |
| 13:32.50 | DelphiWorld | 1s |
| 13:32.51 | DelphiWorld | phone call |
| 13:32.56 | PaulFertser | suvir: you do not need the development kit to develop. |
| 13:33.08 | suvir | paul i am using freeswitch for a 30 seat call center |
| 13:33.13 | suvir | i set it up last week |
| 13:33.19 | suvir | i was using asterisk |
| 13:33.26 | suvir | but now switched to freeswitch |
| 13:33.56 | suvir | if you are into voip and telephony you really need to take a look at freeswitch |
| 13:34.06 | PaulFertser | suvir: thanks, will keep that in mind :) |
| 13:34.19 | suvir | paul thank you for being so helpful :) |
| 13:34.46 | suvir | does open moko have a sip client? |
| 13:35.06 | PaulFertser | suvir: there's no such thing as openmoko distro nowadays. |
| 13:35.31 | suvir | i see thats a pity |
| 13:35.40 | PaulFertser | suvir: i think the easiest is to use linphone on the device for a sip client, and it's included in both Debian and SHR (OE-based). |
| 13:36.11 | suvir | so that means you can install linphone on the handphone you are using as a deb package? |
| 13:36.25 | PaulFertser | suvir: OE is something akin to a Gentoo for building embedded images. So adding software is a matter of writing a recipe (ebuild in gentoo terminology). |
| 13:36.30 | suvir | paul just for your information I am from Thailand and Delphiworld is from algeria |
| 13:36.40 | PaulFertser | suvir: yes, as i'm using Debian. |
| 13:36.48 | suvir | I see |
| 13:36.52 | PaulFertser | suvir: OE users use another but similar package format. |
| 13:36.59 | PaulFertser | suvir: and i'm from Russia :) |
| 13:37.03 | suvir | me and delphiworld talk on voip and try to learn together |
| 13:37.08 | suvir | wow mother russia :) |
| 13:37.11 | PaulFertser | suvir: :) |
| 13:37.27 | PaulFertser | suvir: nice way to learn indeed |
| 13:37.47 | suvir | so if there is no open moko what do you guys talk about and do in this channel? |
| 13:38.14 | PaulFertser | suvir: so basically there's no need for a custom distro as one can just install (apt-get install or opkg install) the software he wants. |
| 13:39.02 | suvir | so you suggest we use OE for our build platform? we were looking at slax and opensuse and linux from scratch |
| 13:39.05 | PaulFertser | suvir: well, there's openmoko-the-company. They abandoned phone business long time ago. There was once openmoko distro (OE-based), it's abandoned as well. There're openmoko-produced devices left. And some of us are still using them. |
| 13:39.34 | PaulFertser | suvir: it all depends on what you want to do. |
| 13:39.48 | suvir | well the idea is to build an appliance |
| 13:39.55 | suvir | using perhaps an atom processor |
| 13:40.00 | suvir | and make it a pabx |
| 13:40.06 | suvir | just for the learning experience |
| 13:40.24 | PaulFertser | suvir: ah, so it's not openmoko related then? |
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| 13:40.47 | SpeedEvil | suvir: you may find #edev useful |
| 13:40.51 | suvir | no its not really related to open moko but we really dont know how to start such a project |
| 13:41.02 | PaulFertser | suvir: if you're using a powerfull enough platform, i'd just use Debian on it. |
| 13:41.12 | suvir | haha ok |
| 13:41.22 | suvir | paul but how to make a smal smal debian |
| 13:41.25 | PaulFertser | suvir: i mean you just install all the software you need, configure it, test it, etc. |
| 13:41.30 | suvir | without all the extra fat |
| 13:41.31 | PaulFertser | suvir: how small? |
| 13:41.49 | suvir | target about 150 MB |
| 13:42.13 | suvir | just command line and gcc and networking |
| 13:42.15 | PaulFertser | suvir: hm, quite a constraint. |
| 13:42.24 | lindi- | you want gcc there? |
| 13:42.35 | suvir | hi lindi |
| 13:42.58 | suvir | perhaps just for initial build environment but later no gcc |
| 13:43.11 | suvir | i am pretty new to all this so i got many questions :) |
| 13:43.28 | lindi- | suvir: you have not used debian before? |
| 13:43.32 | suvir | or maybe we can build it on a host and then transfer |
| 13:43.46 | suvir | lindi not debian directly used ubuntu and linuxmint |
| 13:43.49 | suvir | using linuxmint now |
| 13:44.18 | suvir | debian i had put it on a KUROBOX (buffalow brand external hdd case) before |
| 13:44.38 | suvir | I am a slackware fan |
| 13:44.59 | suvir | never tried debian but hear a lot of really good things about it |
| 13:45.26 | PaulFertser | suvir: if you want some really small images, you can also look at OpenWRT. A well-maintained distro. But almost no documentation for the developers whatsoever, one needs to be experienced to understand their tricky Makefiles system and other concepts, but once you do that, you can add pretty much any software to an image. |
| 13:45.49 | PaulFertser | suvir: i'm not sure if for building a custom distro OE or OpenWRT is preferred. |
| 13:46.09 | suvir | yes we did look at openwrt for x86 earlier today but got confused as to what type of image to choose |
| 13:46.19 | suvir | and i really didnt know what to do with an img file |
| 13:46.34 | suvir | i have used openwrt only on my linksys router |
| 13:46.39 | suvir | but never on a full blown pc |
| 13:46.56 | suvir | they also have a package manager ipkg i believe |
| 13:47.01 | PaulFertser | suvir: heh, one can "easily" read the corresponding makefile to understand how that img is built and if your target is x86, you're supposed to understand its booting process in details :) |
| 13:47.42 | suvir | not easy for a newbie |
| 13:47.56 | PaulFertser | suvir: i guess openwrt had an option to embed grub in the image, so it can be simply dd'd to the whole harddrive (not partition). |
| 13:48.03 | PaulFertser | But i do not remember exactly. |
| 13:48.08 | suvir | i see |
| 13:48.18 | suvir | so what do you do as a day job paul? |
| 13:48.22 | PaulFertser | suvir: where did you get that 150MB constraint from? |
| 13:48.24 | suvir | i am working in an IT company |
| 13:49.04 | PaulFertser | suvir: i'm kinda embedded programmer (avr, arm). Occassionally doing some little gtk apps too. |
| 13:49.13 | suvir | paulfertser was talking to delphiworld and just got a 150MB out of the air its just like a nice to have size nothing serious, of course we could go bigger |
| 13:49.29 | PaulFertser | suvir: because probably using debian is a really easy and nice thing. |
| 13:49.31 | suvir | i see i make some programs for 8051 using sdcc |
| 13:49.46 | suvir | i see i will take a serious look at debian |
| 13:49.48 | PaulFertser | suvir: i did that too when i started to study microcontrollers :) |
| 13:50.11 | suvir | i have a pic kit at home but have not played with it yet |
| 13:50.24 | suvir | wanted to get into TCP/IP stack on the microcontroller |
| 13:50.52 | suvir | use mostly atmel 8051 chips like at89s8252 |
| 13:51.12 | PaulFertser | suvir: for some one-off projects it really now makes sense to target ARMs, they're cheap and capable and plenty of libs available. |
| 13:51.12 | lindi- | PaulFertser: probably depends on your background. it does take a while to understand how debian does things and why |
| 13:51.32 | PaulFertser | lindi-: oh yeah. But what is the alternative? |
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| 13:52.29 | PaulFertser | lindi-: i think gentoo is easier when it comes to the point you want to package something yourself. |
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| 13:53.40 | DelphiWorld | is back |
| 13:54.12 | suvir | hi delphiworld welcome back |
| 13:54.22 | suvir | paul recommends to use debian |
| 13:54.23 | DelphiWorld | suvir: so anything up with PaulFertser? |
| 13:54.38 | suvir | yes he said it is a good way to start |
| 13:54.45 | suvir | i have heard many good things about debian also |
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| 13:55.15 | DelphiWorld | PaulF: ;) |
| 13:55.27 | PaulF | Bip server connectivity issues again :/ |
| 13:55.55 | suvir | delphiworld: paul develops microcontroller applications |
| 13:56.16 | DelphiWorld | suvir: nice |
| 13:56.22 | PaulF | suvir: lately i mostly help my coworkers debugging theirs :) |
| 13:56.22 | DelphiWorld | PaulF: pic or what micro controler? |
| 13:56.32 | PaulF | DelphiWorld: AVR and now ARMs. |
| 13:56.42 | PaulF | Never touched PICs |
| 13:56.44 | DelphiWorld | PaulF: good |
| 13:56.53 | DelphiWorld | PaulF: do a micro controler need a operating system? |
| 13:57.15 | PaulF | DelphiWorld: yes, i used FreeRTOS on an AVR and now we do it on our ARM projects too. |
| 13:57.25 | PaulF | DelphiWorld: to me it's a clear win. |
| 13:57.56 | PaulF | DelphiWorld: it's not much of an OS, rather a scheduler and some synchronisation and other IPC primitives. |
| 13:58.08 | DelphiWorld | PaulF: ;) |
| 13:58.29 | DelphiWorld | PaulF: do you want to join us into a conference? |
| 13:58.53 | PaulF | DelphiWorld: as in "voip conference"? Probably not right now :) |
| 13:59.01 | DelphiWorld | PaulF: yah |
| 13:59.17 | PaulF | Also i'm too shy of my accent ;) |
| 13:59.39 | DelphiWorld | PaulF: ;) |
| 13:59.51 | DelphiWorld | PaulF: where are you from? |
| 13:59.58 | PaulF | DelphiWorld: russia |
| 14:00.06 | DelphiWorld | PaulF: ;) |
| 14:00.08 | DelphiWorld | PaulF: algeria |
| 14:00.29 | suvir | paul |
| 14:00.36 | suvir | what is the size we can get with debian |
| 14:00.38 | suvir | what do you think |
| 14:00.45 | DelphiWorld | suvir: good question |
| 14:00.57 | DelphiWorld | PaulF: go visit http://www.askosia.com is less thant 30mb |
| 14:01.28 | PaulF | DelphiWorld: the link's bad |
| 14:01.35 | DelphiWorld | oh |
| 14:01.40 | suvir | wrong link |
| 14:01.44 | suvir | there is no such link |
| 14:01.50 | suvir | cannot go to that page |
| 14:01.50 | PaulF | lindi-: any idea about the minimal size of a stripped down Debian? |
| 14:02.13 | suvir | lindi and also how do we strip it down? |
| 14:02.22 | DelphiWorld | PaulF / suvir: http://www.askozia.com/ |
| 14:02.41 | PaulF | suvir: when you're designing something new it's often "wise" to consider using something that is a little bit more expensive but faster to do development with. |
| 14:03.05 | DelphiWorld | lindi-===monday |
| 14:03.19 | suvir | yes that i what i was trying to say to delphiworld |
| 14:03.20 | PaulF | suvir: so probably getting a 1Gb usb flash drive for your atom platform is not an issue and you have no size constraints. |
| 14:03.26 | suvir | target x86 first |
| 14:03.30 | suvir | make the barrier of entry small |
| 14:03.53 | DelphiWorld | suvir: i agree |
| 14:03.54 | suvir | i have a 750Mhz PIII board here so i can start with that |
| 14:03.59 | PaulF | DelphiWorld: if you want less than 20Mb then you're most probably after hard studying OpenWRT. |
| 14:04.05 | lindi- | PaulF: suvir: there's this emdebian thing |
| 14:04.18 | DelphiWorld | PaulF: yes, i suggested it |
| 14:04.25 | DelphiWorld | PaulF: but we are confused |
| 14:04.42 | PaulF | DelphiWorld: OpenWRT is really nice but lacks developer documentation. One just reads the sources. |
| 14:04.52 | suvir | emdebian looks good! |
| 14:04.53 | DelphiWorld | ;) |
| 14:05.10 | suvir | http://www.emdebian.org/ |
| 14:05.28 | DelphiWorld | suvir: visiting |
| 14:06.03 | suvir | delphiworld we will have to read the introductory guide |
| 14:06.08 | suvir | there is a link on that page |
| 14:06.17 | DelphiWorld | suvir: seen it... |
| 14:06.39 | luke-jr | suvir: x86 has a high barrier of entry |
| 14:07.15 | suvir | luke-jr : really, haha I thought it would be the easiest, how little i know |
| 14:07.22 | luke-jr | even a 750 MHz PIII is fairly high-end in comparison to ARM |
| 14:07.50 | suvir | luke-jr when you say high barrier do you mean price? or difficulty? |
| 14:08.01 | luke-jr | suvir: I mean usefulness |
| 14:08.24 | luke-jr | if people develop on a 2 GHz processor, it won't end up working sanely on a 600 MHz ARM |
| 14:08.37 | luke-jr | s/develop/test/ |
| 14:08.43 | suvir | oh ok i see your point |
| 14:09.24 | luke-jr | you can probably find a not-so-free equivalent to Freerunner cheaply |
| 14:09.35 | suvir | i think the device ultimately will have an atom board ... because they are cheap and nothing to build just buy |
| 14:09.36 | luke-jr | testing on that will give you lowest-common-denomination |
| 14:10.20 | suvir | delphiworld: why do you want to target arm? |
| 14:10.35 | luke-jr | suvir: FYI, I'm talking just from the channel's topic. The device obviously has ARM⦠so no idea what you're talking about having Atom :p |
| 14:11.02 | DelphiWorld | suvir: because arm is the mostly used embedded CPU but not forced |
| 14:11.13 | suvir | luke-jr we are trying to decide what to use as a platform for our freeswitch voip pbx device |
| 14:11.43 | suvir | but as lindi said emdebian looks interesting |
| 14:11.51 | DelphiWorld | suvir: luke-jr also is a fs community member |
| 14:12.06 | suvir | oh :) |
| 14:12.21 | luke-jr | DelphiWorld: which is why I'd recommend Asterisk, depending on your needs :P |
| 14:12.30 | suvir | haha! |
| 14:12.36 | DelphiWorld | oh, luke-jr......... |
| 14:12.38 | luke-jr | the FreeSWITCH developers need to get a clue |
| 14:12.40 | lindi- | suvir: I'm not sure I can recommend emdebian unless you have debian experience first |
| 14:13.07 | luke-jr | too much needless forking/branching, and no stable releases |
| 14:13.11 | suvir | lindi its ok we have to read a lot and learn a lot but at least we need a place to start and debian seems very interesting |
| 14:13.35 | luke-jr | Asterisk has the first problem a bit worse, but at least they have stable releases |
| 14:13.45 | luke-jr | stable releases are a must for anything production |
| 14:14.08 | suvir | luke-jr: you should have a look at the asterisk source code for voicemail |
| 14:14.11 | suvir | i nearly cried |
| 14:14.21 | DelphiWorld | luckfs don't have stable release? |
| 14:14.21 | luke-jr | heh |
| 14:14.29 | luke-jr | suvir: unfortunately, not too much choice â¹ |
| 14:14.36 | luke-jr | DelphiWorld: nope |
| 14:14.45 | DelphiWorld | luckwait |
| 14:14.50 | suvir | i have a 30 seat call center on freeswitch and I can sleep at night :) |
| 14:14.55 | luke-jr | DelphiWorld: and they won't support you unless you track git head |
| 14:15.24 | luke-jr | DelphiWorld: I have to work with FS for paid work, so I'm not interested in pissing them off :p |
| 14:15.26 | suvir | i guess thats what you get with only 3 lead developers |
| 14:15.48 | suvir | luke-jr what do you do with freeswitch? |
| 14:16.18 | luke-jr | suvir: it's the primary audio/telephony framework for a proprietary product |
| 14:16.20 | DelphiWorld | folk, luke-jr and suvir |
| 14:16.24 | DelphiWorld | this talk is off topic;) |
| 14:16.26 | luke-jr | which is not public info yet |
| 14:16.39 | suvir | i see |
| 14:16.45 | DelphiWorld | luke-jr: why you don't use asterisk as a framework? |
| 14:17.27 | suvir | delphiworld because he wants to sleep at night |
| 14:17.31 | luke-jr | DelphiWorld: it's also supported, but the FreeSWITCH backend was more mature at the time someone made the decision to recommend one platform over the other |
| 14:17.49 | luke-jr | and it's better for marketting I suspect |
| 14:18.00 | suvir | luke-jr are you using the freeswitch paid support? |
| 14:18.01 | DelphiWorld | suvir: so you didn't sleep as night? |
| 14:18.14 | luke-jr | suvir: never heard of it |
| 14:18.23 | suvir | delphiworld i would not sleep using asterisk for mission critical support |
| 14:18.35 | suvir | luke-jr there is paid support for freeswitch also |
| 14:18.43 | DelphiWorld | luke-jr: i know i'm blind |
| 14:18.59 | DelphiWorld | luke-jr: if i use shitstrisk i couldn't get started with VoIp |
| 14:19.16 | luke-jr | Asterisk was the only option when I started |
| 14:19.26 | suvir | http://www.freeswitchsolutions.com/ |
| 14:19.28 | luke-jr | my home PBX is still Asterisk 1.2 I think |
| 14:19.34 | suvir | thats the paid support |
| 14:20.06 | DelphiWorld | luke-jr: my home PBX is freeswitch (head) US hosted but i'm in algeria;) |
| 14:20.26 | luke-jr | suvir: honestly, even if the company I was doing this for had room in the budget, I'd suggest they hire someone to maintain a stable version first |
| 14:22.45 | DelphiWorld | suvir: PM |
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| 14:29.04 | DelphiWorld | hi undrwater! |
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| 14:34.56 | suvir | luke-jr so when will we be seeing your product |
| 14:35.50 | DelphiWorld | suvir: if asterisk based, look and wait for it in 2020 |
| 14:36.21 | suvir | delphiworld asterisk is noot so bad come on :) |
| 14:36.31 | DelphiWorld | suvir: may i kill you? |
| 14:36.33 | DelphiWorld | :P suvir |
| 14:36.39 | suvir | i still have i asterisk server running |
| 14:36.46 | DelphiWorld | cd /usr/local |
| 14:36.49 | DelphiWorld | killall suvir |
| 14:36.54 | suvir | :) |
| 14:36.59 | suvir | kill -9 |
| 14:37.05 | luke-jr | suvir: dunno |
| 14:37.22 | DelphiWorld | cp -R #openmoko/taylend/suvir /earth/algeria |
| 14:37.41 | suvir | its thailand :) |
| 14:38.16 | suvir | lindi there is a debian 505 business card iso version |
| 14:38.22 | suvir | i will try that on virtualbox |
| 14:38.24 | suvir | just to see |
| 14:38.27 | DelphiWorld | lindi-: http://wiki.osuosl.org/display/LNX/Making+a+Custom+Boot+CD+for+Debian |
| 14:38.31 | DelphiWorld | lindi-: please odite it;=) |
| 14:41.26 | lindi- | odite? |
| 14:41.58 | lindi- | DelphiWorld: that howto looks really ancient |
| 14:42.04 | lindi- | 2005? |
| 14:42.18 | DelphiWorld | lindi-: mean? |
| 14:42.23 | suvir | very old |
| 14:42.27 | suvir | year 2005 |
| 14:42.31 | DelphiWorld | but work mayb |
| 14:42.33 | suvir | now its 2010 :) |
| 14:42.45 | lindi- | DelphiWorld: no, don't trust it :) |
| 14:43.07 | lindi- | DelphiWorld: the documentation is included in debian itself |
| 14:43.17 | lindi- | no need to rely on some random wiki |
| 14:44.01 | DelphiWorld | rely only in lindi- |
| 14:44.03 | DelphiWorld | :) |
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| 15:19.45 | DelphiWorld | lindi-: we are seeking to start emdebian;) |
| 15:20.19 | lindi- | DelphiWorld: note that I have not used emdebian much, I prefer real debian :) |
| 15:20.31 | DelphiWorld | hehe |
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| 15:25.01 | PaulF | mickeyl: it's strange i get timeouts only on suspend and resume but haven't seem them during operation. |
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| 16:21.49 | mickeyl | PaulF: can you try disabling touching the flow control? |
| 16:22.05 | mickeyl | as I don't remember having problems with timeouts, it may be related to that |
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| 16:23.50 | PaulF | mickeyl: i can try of course :) but i have no idea how to verify if it works as it's not readily reproducible. |
| 16:24.18 | PaulF | mickeyl: btw, am i using a recent enough version for my logs (posted on the ticket) to make sense? |
| 16:25.32 | PaulF | these looks strange too: |
| 16:25.34 | PaulF | 2010-08-12T17:18:07.163701Z [INFO] TiCalypsoModem <4C>: Modem Status changed to FSO_GSM_MODEM_STATUS_RESUMING |
| 16:25.37 | PaulF | 2010-08-12T17:18:07.202805Z [DEBUG] libfsotransport <0710:3>: Wrote '+CREG=2'. Waiting (120s) for answer... |
| 16:25.40 | PaulF | 2010-08-12T17:36:44.116399Z [WARN] libfsotransport <0710:3>: Timeout while waiting for an answer to '+CREG=2' |
| 16:25.43 | PaulF | 2010-08-12T17:36:44.117387Z [DEBUG] libfsotransport <0710:3>: Retrying '+CREG=2', retry counter = 2 |
| 16:25.46 | PaulF | 2010-08-12T17:36:44.518954Z [INFO] libfsotransport <0710:3>: SRC: "+CREG=2" -> [ "OK" ] |
| 16:27.54 | mickeyl | hmm, yeah |
| 16:28.00 | mickeyl | calypso... |
| 16:28.12 | PaulF | Also fsogsmd seem to misbehave |
| 16:28.19 | PaulF | As the timestamps do not make sense |
| 16:28.54 | PaulF | Hm, or probably that's autosuspend kicking in in between, is it possible it might do that? |
| 16:29.44 | mickeyl | no idea |
| 16:29.58 | mickeyl | autosuspend would trigger resource messages though |
| 16:30.15 | PaulF | mickeyl: hm, i'll check frameworkd log |
| 16:30.42 | mickeyl | might want to use the same logfile also for fsousaged |
| 16:30.50 | mickeyl | to make the order of things clear |
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| 16:33.12 | PaulF | mickeyl: heh, looks like i'm right :( http://paste.debian.net/83308/ |
| 16:34.30 | PaulF | mickeyl: plus fsousgade log: http://paste.debian.net/83309/ |
| 16:34.51 | PaulF | Now it's not magical fsogsmd gets disabled instead of trying to repeat the commands |
| 16:35.01 | mickeyl | yep |
| 16:35.26 | mickeyl | if a resume does not complete in time, the resource gets disabled |
| 16:35.29 | mickeyl | as a last resort, so to say |
| 16:36.11 | mickeyl | since the timeout handling essentially seems to work, we can now move it back to a reasonable time |
| 16:36.18 | PaulF | mickeyl: in practice this whole thing makes a mess, i have no idea what to suggest :( |
| 16:36.33 | mickeyl | throw the modem away... |
| 16:36.42 | mickeyl | i don't have any of these problems on other devices |
| 16:36.58 | PaulF | mickeyl: even if that's the modem guilty, you'd have the same with every other modem if the voltage is too low. |
| 16:37.27 | mickeyl | you think this is about voltage? |
| 16:37.40 | mickeyl | why is it answering with an OK then? |
| 16:37.53 | PaulF | mickeyl: also i am not 100% sure there's no some subtle bug in the "wake-up-wake-up" logic/implementation.. |
| 16:38.11 | PaulF | mickeyl: no i mean even if i had another modem there would be some chances to get troubles similar to these. |
| 16:38.32 | mickeyl | i guess commercial devices just shut down earlier |
| 16:38.33 | PaulF | mickeyl: when the system goes to some weird state without proper way out (short of restarting almost all of the daemons). |
| 16:39.29 | mickeyl | probably, it's just that the likeliness may be different by orders of magnitudes... |
| 16:39.51 | mickeyl | i have never seen any other modem not responding. granted, the other modems don't use this braindead sleep mode |
| 16:40.17 | mickeyl | but still, if we can't guarantee operation of all peripherals below a certain voltage, i'd advise completely shutting down the system |
| 16:41.03 | PaulF | mickeyl: the fact i seem to see the timeouts that often i guess suggests there might be something wrong. Because even calypso used to work all right wrt that (when i changed to send that "wakeup" characters on every transmission if 5 sec passed after the previous _transmission_ (not reception)) |
| 16:41.44 | mickeyl | libgsm0710mux works w/ transmission only as well these days |
| 16:41.52 | mickeyl | try to disable flow control |
| 16:41.58 | mickeyl | perhaps the kernel folks broke it |
| 16:42.06 | mickeyl | it worked fine on .29 |
| 16:42.10 | PaulF | mickeyl: no, can't be. I'm still on .29 |
| 16:42.15 | mickeyl | ah |
| 16:43.07 | mickeyl | and you're sure your battery is full enough? i mean we really don't want to hunt problems occuring due to the device shutting down, do we? |
| 16:44.12 | PaulF | mickeyl: with current configuration i fairly often see problems with a seemingly full enough battery, yes. BTW, mrmoku reported he had issues with a full (but probably degraded) battery as well. |
| 16:44.33 | PaulF | mickeyl: the battery might seem all right (judging by voltage) but if it can't supply current, well, one's screwed. |
| 16:44.51 | PaulF | mickeyl: but so far i think i never had such an issue. |
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| 16:48.32 | PaulF | mickeyl: guess i have to try running with strace on the regular basis. Then i'll be sure it does indeed send the wakeup sequence and the flowcontrol gets toggled etc etc |
| 16:48.53 | mickeyl | yes |
| 16:49.19 | mickeyl | btw., i reckon you have a sane patched dbus, right? |
| 16:49.26 | mickeyl | (are you using SHR or debian?) |
| 16:50.57 | mickeyl | i could also not use request-reply calls any more in fsousaged |
| 16:50.58 | PaulF | mickeyl: debian |
| 16:51.15 | PaulF | mickeyl: sane patched dbus? hm, let me check, i guess no. |
| 16:51.20 | mickeyl | ah |
| 16:51.35 | mickeyl | this increases your risk of strange timeouts by a large factor |
| 16:51.45 | mickeyl | i seriously recommend not using the stock dbus in debian |
| 16:51.58 | PaulF | mickeyl: yes, debian's 1.2.24-1 dbus. |
| 16:52.10 | PaulF | mickeyl: now i remember that issue. |
| 16:52.14 | PaulF | mickeyl: and i see your point. |
| 16:52.30 | PaulF | mickeyl: not that i'm convinced FSO shouldn't behave sane even with "broken" dbus ;) |
| 16:53.50 | mickeyl | well |
| 16:53.52 | mickeyl | sooner or later... |
| 16:54.10 | mickeyl | i'll be celebrating once we move away from libdbus |
| 16:54.16 | mickeyl | hopefully by the end of this year |
| 16:54.56 | mickeyl | somehow i trust the folks working on glib to know their stuff much more than the folks working on dbus... |
| 16:56.01 | SpeedEvil | Oh great! |
| 16:56.09 | SpeedEvil | Yet another desktop bus - it's what the world needs! |
| 16:56.11 | SpeedEvil | :) |
| 16:56.17 | mickeyl | not quite |
| 16:56.23 | mickeyl | i said moving away from libdbus |
| 16:56.27 | mickeyl | not moving away from dbus |
| 16:57.12 | SpeedEvil | ah |
| 16:57.15 | SpeedEvil | my mistake |
| 17:10.52 | mrmoku | PaulF: I will bump the fso stack... then we'll see if I get problems |
| 17:11.21 | PaulF | mrmoku: after i finally managed to install FSO2 on Debian i was so fucking excited. |
| 17:11.43 | luke-jr | mickeyl: I'll use dbus, but I won't use glib |
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| 17:14.25 | PaulF | luke-jr: what's bad about glib in your opinion? |
| 17:20.29 | thrashold | Is the dbus protocol stable (i.e. independent of the client used to connect to it, and libdbus?) |
| 17:21.17 | thrashold | I would bet that rewriting it would be bigger issue than living with libdbus shortcomings, though |
| 17:31.01 | mickeyl | the on-the-wire-protocol has been stable for some years now, yes |
| 17:31.58 | thrashold | I' |
| 17:32.07 | thrashold | d say that replacement libraries are then welcome :) |
| 17:37.13 | mickeyl | yep |
| 17:37.26 | mickeyl | in fact, some bindings already don't use libdbus |
| 17:37.37 | mickeyl | but rather have implemented their own marshalling |
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| 17:47.28 | luke-jr | PaulF: it's part of the GNOME software stack :P |
| 17:47.30 | luke-jr | PaulF: and slow |
| 17:48.13 | luke-jr | mickeyl: use QtDbus instead of glib |
| 17:48.45 | mickeyl | that'd be a problem |
| 17:48.52 | mickeyl | there's no C binding to qt |
| 17:49.03 | mickeyl | and i don't feel like rewriting everything in C++ |
| 17:49.09 | mickeyl | now that i have rewritten everything in Vala :D |
| 17:50.54 | luke-jr | system("â¦"); <.< |
| 17:51.04 | luke-jr | Vala is part of the GNOME stack too |
| 17:51.07 | luke-jr | so rewrite in Qt |
| 17:51.36 | mickeyl | heh |
| 17:51.47 | mickeyl | no way will I rewrite fso _again_ |
| 17:52.02 | luke-jr | why |
| 17:52.18 | mickeyl | why should I? |
| 17:52.23 | mickeyl | vala is great |
| 17:52.40 | mickeyl | it took me 2 years to rewrite 70% of FSO |
| 17:52.47 | mickeyl | doing it again would kill the project |
| 17:53.00 | mickeyl | no one would wait for it to become ready |
| 17:53.04 | luke-jr | Vala is part of GNOME, so crap |
| 17:53.05 | mickeyl | and no one would help anyways |
| 17:53.19 | luke-jr | if people want glib/GNOME stuff, they're already using oFono |
| 17:53.34 | mickeyl | possible |
| 17:54.04 | mickeyl | there's no benefit for me to rewrite anything. stuff works fine except libdbus1 |
| 17:54.17 | mickeyl | and this will be fixed by moving to glib's implementation |
| 17:54.47 | luke-jr | sigh |
| 17:55.05 | mickeyl | folks should rather concentrate on UI |
| 17:55.09 | mickeyl | middleware is ok |
| 17:55.14 | mickeyl | UI is a catastrophe |
| 17:55.21 | mickeyl | everything half finished |
| 17:55.24 | mickeyl | not user friendly |
| 17:55.25 | mickeyl | ugly |
| 17:55.26 | mickeyl | etc. |
| 17:55.38 | mickeyl | this is where more work is needed |
| 17:55.43 | luke-jr | hum |
| 17:56.00 | luke-jr | I'm going to use the Telepathy-Qt4 example |
| 17:56.01 | luke-jr | :p |
| 17:56.07 | mickeyl | anyways, dinner time |
| 18:08.42 | *** join/#openmoko Zorkman (~zork@78-22-123-127.access.telenet.be) |
| 18:08.50 | PaulF | mickeyl: if i only had UI problems, i'd blame only myself as i'm sole author and "architect" of the UI i use. Alas, there're issue deeper that i experience :( |
| 18:09.33 | *** join/#openmoko geaaru (~geaaru@host24-205-dynamic.244-95-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 18:11.12 | *** join/#openmoko Zorkmn (~zork@78-22-123-127.access.telenet.be) |
| 18:11.47 | *** join/#openmoko samgee (~samgee@fsf/member/samgee) |
| 18:14.19 | Heng_Sky | Him the openmoko is operating system for phone rite "? |
| 18:15.18 | badcloud | Heng_Sky: openmoko is the company |
| 18:15.37 | Heng_Sky | oh |
| 18:15.49 | badcloud | the flagship operating system is SHR (Stable Hybrid Release) |
| 18:16.08 | Heng_Sky | oh |
| 18:16.25 | badcloud | the two main phone models is the older '1973' Neo and the not-so-old Neo 'Freerunner' |
| 18:16.36 | luke-jr | (both obsolete) |
| 18:16.42 | badcloud | true |
| 18:16.56 | badcloud | as far as cutting edge hardware |
| 18:17.13 | luke-jr | is sad there is no future for the Neo line |
| 18:17.14 | badcloud | but you can't find open source hardware anywhere else |
| 18:17.24 | luke-jr | semi-open* |
| 18:17.25 | badcloud | is sad as well |
| 18:17.33 | Heng_Sky | oh. |
| 18:17.38 | luke-jr | you can find the Ben NanoNote, but it isn't a phone and even MORE obsolete :p |
| 18:19.29 | luke-jr | actually, phones *should be* obsolete |
| 18:19.41 | luke-jr | so insofar as Neo was a phone line, it's ok that it died |
| 18:19.47 | luke-jr | but a replacement is still desirable |
| 18:20.17 | badcloud | luke-jr: right about that, but cell phone companies will *not* give up their sole source of revenue any time soon |
| 18:20.29 | luke-jr | a pocket computer, also capable of making a bluetooth headset a "phone" is needed |
| 18:21.26 | luke-jr | a Telepathy-BlueZ daemon, I suppose |
| 18:22.02 | luke-jr | but the device should be a functional computer first |
| 18:22.15 | luke-jr | and do integrated phone-bluetooth bridging transparently |
| 18:23.31 | mrmoku | internet aint not available everywhere... |
| 18:23.44 | mrmoku | s/aint not/is not/ |
| 18:24.19 | luke-jr | mrmoku: so? |
| 18:24.28 | Heng_Sky | why the moko phone is expensive lolx.. it around 350$ in USA |
| 18:24.42 | mrmoku | luke-jr: so... a poket computer without gsm can't substitute my mobile |
| 18:24.43 | luke-jr | Heng_Sky: because it's still at original retail price |
| 18:24.50 | luke-jr | mrmoku: I didn't say without GSM |
| 18:24.54 | mrmoku | ahh |
| 18:24.57 | luke-jr | and 3G is more common here than GSM |
| 18:25.25 | mrmoku | luke-jr: then fine - I'm all for it :-) |
| 18:26.04 | *** join/#openmoko Angelox_123 (~root@201-95-190-104.dsl.telesp.net.br) |
| 18:26.15 | luke-jr | the point I was making is that the device should be a computer, not a phone |
| 18:26.45 | luke-jr | the headset can function as a phone just fine |
| 18:29.04 | Heng_Sky | what is openmoko run on the motorolar ? |
| 18:29.13 | luke-jr | actually, I'd love to design something myself, but no resources to build it :P |
| 18:29.38 | Angelox_123 | Openmoko runs on ARMV5TE architecture ? |
| 18:30.34 | *** join/#openmoko radekp (~radek@63.120.broadband10.iol.cz) |
| 18:31.58 | mrmoku | luke-jr: I would argue that the FR is more computer than phone ;) |
| 18:32.19 | luke-jr | mrmoku: no |
| 18:32.21 | luke-jr | it has no keyboard |
| 18:32.39 | mrmoku | you can attach one via usb |
| 18:32.48 | Angelox_123 | Openmoko runs on ARMV5TE architecture ? |
| 18:33.17 | Heng_Sky | one more question. what is advantage of openmko application on computer ? |
| 18:34.10 | mrmoku | Angelox_123: 400/500 MHz Samsung 2442B Processor/SOC (400 minimum, ARM920T core, ARMv4T) |
| 18:34.31 | mrmoku | so... no |
| 18:34.36 | Angelox_123 | =( |
| 18:34.42 | Angelox_123 | thanks |
| 18:34.44 | luke-jr | mrmoku: then it's not handheld |
| 18:35.17 | *** join/#openmoko Batchy (~batchy@AVelizy-155-1-37-112.w83-204.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 18:36.56 | *** join/#openmoko ^wd^ (~wd@82.119.147.190) |
| 18:45.12 | PaulF | Heng_Sky: what's "openmko application"? |
| 18:47.18 | Heng_Sky | i dont know too but i see on the wiki. the openmoko application on window |
| 18:54.01 | badcloud | Heng_Sky: I think that's just the company logo |
| 18:54.30 | Heng_Sky | oh :) |
| 18:54.52 | Heng_Sky | motorola V3i able to run openmoko ? |
| 18:56.15 | badcloud | wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Supported_devices |
| 18:58.15 | *** join/#openmoko Zorkman (~zork@78-22-123-127.access.telenet.be) |
| 18:59.20 | *** join/#openmoko yann_ (576465d4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.87.100.101.212) |
| 18:59.33 | Heng_Sky | :) |
| 18:59.34 | Heng_Sky | thank |
| 19:00.49 | *** part/#openmoko samgee (~samgee@fsf/member/samgee) |
| 19:02.47 | badcloud | Heng_Sky: np |
| 19:03.03 | badcloud | Heng_Sky: HTC Dream looks like a safe bet |
| 19:03.07 | *** join/#openmoko rooly (~chris@ip174-64-161-112.lf.br.cox.net) |
| 19:03.55 | *** join/#openmoko ^wd^ (~wd@82.119.147.190) |
| 19:04.09 | Heng_Sky | Thank badcloud |
| 19:04.16 | badcloud | Heng_Sky: np :) |
| 19:05.26 | Angelox_123 | Shine on your crazy diamond...what music is? |
| 19:06.22 | badcloud | Angelox_123: do you mean what song those lyrics are from? |
| 19:06.39 | Angelox_123 | yes...i forget sorry |
| 19:06.45 | mrmoku | Angelox_123: Pink Floyd |
| 19:06.48 | badcloud | Angelox_123: no worries |
| 19:06.55 | badcloud | mrmoku: google? ;) |
| 19:07.06 | mrmoku | badcloud: no... I'm old :P |
| 19:07.13 | badcloud | mrmoku: nice |
| 19:07.40 | Angelox_123 | i am fan of pink floyd...and you? |
| 19:08.15 | mrmoku | likes Pink Floyd too |
| 19:08.37 | Angelox_123 | sorry out assunt.. |
| 19:08.57 | Angelox_123 | subject* |
| 19:09.01 | Angelox_123 | sorry my bad english |
| 19:09.55 | PaulF | too, but not that much, it's a bit too paphos for my liking |
| 19:11.24 | *** join/#openmoko mickeyl (~mickey@80.81.242.146) |
| 19:11.43 | PaulF | Hey! Wait! I got a new complaint |
| 19:12.04 | PaulF | ^ Nirvana ^ |
| 19:13.29 | badcloud | is a Nirvana fan too |
| 19:14.40 | PaulF | I wish i didn't like them but i keep returning again and again. Being sick is uncool. |
| 19:15.57 | *** join/#openmoko fsteinel (~fsteinel@fedora/fsteinel) |
| 19:16.00 | SpeedEvil | Especially if you have a fever. |
| 19:16.02 | Heng_Sky | Later |
| 19:16.06 | *** part/#openmoko Heng_Sky (~Heng_Sky@unaffiliated/orange/x-4931725) |
| 19:16.37 | *** part/#openmoko fsteinel (~fsteinel@fedora/fsteinel) |
| 19:17.15 | *** join/#openmoko fsteinel (~fsteinel@fedora/fsteinel) |
| 19:18.06 | PaulF | SpeedEvil: well, some of us stupid people never learn to live happily even if they seem to be "all right" otherwise. |
| 19:31.05 | *** join/#openmoko niclone (nicolas@blabla.yi.org) |
| 19:48.10 | Angelox_123 | What is name of GUI of OpenMoko ? |
| 19:49.54 | gena2x | Angelox_123: GUI depends on distribution, fr users has many distributions... |
| 19:50.46 | *** join/#openmoko kirun (~kirun@78-86-154-194.zone2.bethere.co.uk) |
| 19:50.54 | Angelox_123 | os2007.12 |
| 19:51.02 | Angelox_123 | uses qt,gtk whta? |
| 19:51.05 | Angelox_123 | uses qt,gtk what? |
| 19:51.36 | gena2x | Angelox_123: so2007.12 is depricated looonnng time ago - try something recent, like qtmoko or shr. |
| 19:52.17 | Angelox_123 | its true openmoko runs on A1200 ? |
| 19:52.33 | *** join/#openmoko tg (irc@tgbit.net) |
| 19:53.41 | gena2x | Angelox_123: 'openmoko' can't run on something. SHR can. qtmoko can. but 'openmoko' is company. |
| 19:54.18 | gena2x | but i think that about A1200 it is not true anyway. |
| 19:54.35 | Angelox_123 | i think too... |
| 19:54.54 | Angelox_123 | sorry say `openmoko is software` ... |
| 19:55.46 | Angelox_123 | Can NeoFreerunner come to Brazil? |
| 19:56.23 | PaulF | Angelox_123: i think there're some attempts to get SHR running on EZX phones. |
| 19:56.26 | thrashold | If you install legs on it :) |
| 19:58.35 | gena2x | Angelox_123: i think, if you really want, you may get somehow. but i guess it is good idea only if you want to dedicate much time to it - to develop or customize it. |
| 19:59.24 | Angelox_123 | yes...i can..i m developing a new operational system for A1200 / E6 |
| 20:00.51 | PaulF | Angelox_123: is A1200 an EZX phone/ |
| 20:01.04 | gena2x | Angelox_123: you may try to ask in community maillist how to get device in your country. |
| 20:01.26 | Angelox_123 | have only one distribuitor....i cant buy direct of you? |
| 20:01.46 | gena2x | Angelox_123: i'm just community member, not sales :) |
| 20:02.17 | Angelox_123 | hum |
| 20:02.19 | Angelox_123 | sorry |
| 20:02.40 | Angelox_123 | my english is bad and i forget how to say `buy from company` |
| 20:05.42 | gena2x | Angelox_123: again, think twice, and if you ready to learn much and solve many troubles, you may try to buy it. but do not expect it will work flawlessly out of box. and it has some hw issues - like 2G only, instabilites. but i think, it's excellent device to learn and hack. |
| 20:06.42 | *** join/#openmoko vanous (~vanous@194.228.223.3) |
| 20:06.56 | Angelox_123 | i know..im developer.im interesting only on priece .. |
| 20:09.06 | *** join/#openmoko Zorkmn (~zork@78-22-123-127.access.telenet.be) |
| 20:09.56 | gena2x | Angelox_123: you may try to ask in community-ml too, may be someone has fr which is just govering dust and someone will be able to sell it for you at lower price. but price seem like EUR 299.00 for example here: http://www.handheld-linux.com/wiki.php?page=Neo%20Freerunner |
| 20:10.17 | gena2x | Angelox_123: you should get device with buzz-fix and better with 1024-rework. |
| 20:10.38 | gena2x | Angelox_123: bass rework is not really so important. |
| 20:12.06 | *** join/#openmoko Zorkman (~zork@78-22-123-127.access.telenet.be) |
| 20:12.10 | Angelox_123 | thanks |
| 20:13.00 | gena2x | Angelox_123: np, ask if you'll need some initial orientation and what is where. |
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| 20:44.28 | *** join/#openmoko PBeck (~PBeck@unixboard/users/pbeck) |
| 20:44.31 | PBeck | hi |
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| 20:50.10 | *** join/#openmoko janv (~jan@53548339.cable.casema.nl) |
| 20:52.24 | janv | all of a sudden my Freerunner does not fully start up any more. I'm using SHR-U. The phone shows the SHR splash screen with 'please wait, booting...' but does not continue |
| 20:52.44 | janv | I removed the sd-card to test, but the behavior is the same |
| 20:53.08 | PBeck | janv: can you ssh into it? |
| 20:53.14 | janv | No |
| 20:53.49 | janv | it seems the usb interface is not up |
| 20:54.13 | PBeck | has it worked? |
| 20:54.26 | PBeck | before the problem now? |
| 20:55.17 | janv | yes, it stopped working all of a sudden when i connected it to my pc. at that moment the freerunner was out of battery power, so maybe the file system went corrupt... |
| 20:55.58 | *** join/#openmoko pablomino (~pablo@r190-135-191-78.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy) |
| 20:56.30 | *** join/#openmoko Gabrys (~Gabrys@89.229.55.160) |
| 20:57.22 | janv | the only thing i can think of now is flashing a new image on sd and booting from sd, and then checking the file system on the internal ram, any other suggestions? |
| 20:57.28 | *** part/#openmoko pablomino (~pablo@r190-135-191-78.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy) |
| 20:57.36 | PBeck | janv: when you can't do anything - not get into the filesystem / ssh into it |
| 20:57.53 | PBeck | then the easiest way is to reflash it |
| 20:58.08 | PBeck | janv: you have a backup i think ;) |
| 20:58.56 | janv | PBeck: of course, but a little old :-( one |
| 20:59.43 | janv | but not of the many openbmap logs i did during my holidays... |
| 21:00.08 | PBeck | hum |
| 21:00.33 | PBeck | janv: you has shr in the internal flash? |
| 21:00.45 | janv | yes |
| 21:01.24 | PBeck | janv: hum ... your files, too? |
| 21:01.51 | PBeck | on my freerunner i had the files for tangogps and so on ever on the sd card, because the internal memory is so small |
| 21:02.54 | PBeck | janv: perhaps you can send a mail to the shr mailinglist |
| 21:03.10 | janv | PBeck: actually, I thought that I had my root (not / but /root) directory on the sd. but i checked the sd, and the root directory is empty, which surprises me... |
| 21:03.46 | janv | PBeck: yeah, maybe i'll send a mail to the list... |
| 21:03.48 | PBeck | janv: perhaps they know more than me |
| 21:04.12 | janv | PBeck: thanks for thinking with me... |
| 21:05.24 | PBeck | janv: hum is it possible to get from the nor into the nand - to backup? |
| 21:07.26 | janv | PBeck: I don't know. I haven't flashed and booted otherwise that the regular way in a long time. I always upgraded with opkg. I'll have to check the wiki... |
| 21:10.26 | janv | PBeck: booting from nor does not work anymore as well. I get: veryfying checksum.... bad data CRC. Error can't get kernel image |
| 21:10.46 | PBeck | urghs .... |
| 21:13.41 | PBeck | janv: when nor is not more working it's a bit dangerous to change anything on the bootloader ;) |
| 21:13.48 | PBeck | without debug board |
| 21:14.06 | *** join/#openmoko messerting (~messertin@39.79-161-65.customer.lyse.net) |
| 21:14.41 | PBeck | janv: and on the nand flash it stop at the booting screen? |
| 21:16.19 | janv | PBeck: yes, i'll be careful. I had a hackable:1 on sd. it's still there, but does not boot any more as well :-( First, I'll try to get a working distrib on sd again. Then I should be able to mount the fs in flash and make a back-up. (Actually, I see in the bash hsitory of the hackable:1 on sd that I did this trick before...) |
| 21:20.35 | PBeck | janv: ok tell me how you has done it when you are finish ;) |
| 21:21.11 | janv | PBeck: ok |
| 21:21.37 | *** join/#openmoko Gabrys (~Gabrys@89.229.55.160) |
| 21:22.25 | PaulF | janv: probably you're trying to boot a kernel > 2M from NAND with your NOR? |
| 21:23.50 | janv | PaulF: that's pretty well possible. I've a SHR-U that's roughly one week old... |
| 21:23.59 | PaulF | janv: then it's most probably it |
| 21:26.02 | PBeck | but then it should not boot since the update? |
| 21:26.43 | PaulF | PBeck: it doesn't |
| 21:26.45 | PaulF | :) |
| 21:26.52 | PaulF | PBeck: with NOR u-boot |
| 21:27.21 | *** join/#openmoko Angelox_123 (~root@201-95-190-104.dsl.telesp.net.br) |
| 21:27.54 | PBeck | ah it works with nadn u-boot but not with nor u -boot because 2mb limitation? |
| 21:27.58 | PBeck | *nand |
| 21:28.12 | PaulF | PBeck: it's not limitation |
| 21:28.24 | janv | PaulF: No, it did boot after the update..., but I guess from NAND, if that's the default |
| 21:28.39 | PaulF | PBeck: it's just that the u-boot version used can not determine kernel size so the amount of bytes read from NAND is hardcoded in the u-boot env. |
| 21:28.48 | PaulF | PBeck: and NOR u-boot recreates its env on every boot. |
| 21:28.57 | *** part/#openmoko Angelox_123 (~root@201-95-190-104.dsl.telesp.net.br) |
| 21:30.01 | PBeck | PaulF: you mean hardcoded in nor? |
| 21:30.05 | PaulF | PBeck: yes |
| 21:30.10 | PaulF | PBeck: you can change it though |
| 21:30.23 | PaulF | PBeck: if you boot NOR, then attach with a terminal emulator to the u-boot console and change env |
| 21:30.34 | PaulF | PBeck: then you'll be able to boot even with NOR u-boot. |
| 21:30.48 | PaulF | The next time you boot you'll have to do it again of course. |
| 21:31.01 | PBeck | PaulF: is the connection only possible with a debug board? |
| 21:31.03 | PaulF | Or to DFU-flash a smaller kernel |
| 21:31.06 | PaulF | PBeck: no |
| 21:31.18 | PaulF | PBeck: the connection is going over standard usb. |
| 21:31.30 | PaulF | PBeck: same as with dfu-util. |
| 21:32.00 | PaulF | /dev/ttyACM0 is created blablabla |
| 21:32.20 | *** join/#openmoko MadTBone_ (~bruce@cpe-66-65-112-179.nyc.res.rr.com) |
| 21:32.32 | PaulF | One doesn't need a debug board even to reflash NOR. A little bit of soldering is enough. |
| 21:32.49 | PaulF | dboard is needed for JTAG and for serial console. |
| 21:32.58 | PBeck | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Bootloader_environment <= ah at the end |
| 21:33.10 | PBeck | PaulF: ah ok |
| 21:33.25 | PBeck | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/NeoCon |
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