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| 10:06.50 | PBeck | hi |
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| 10:44.50 | leosaeba | djp_: I solved the problem.... |
| 10:45.54 | leosaeba | djp_: It was the bootloader...I've installed u-boot 1.3.1 back and now suspend works again... |
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| 11:24.38 | PBeck | hi |
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| 11:28.16 | djp_ | leosaeba: ah, good to read. :D i think your issue was different to mine. shr-unstable (latest version) appears to have a suspend bug. i've turned auto suspend off for now. |
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| 15:26.54 | djp_ | anyone know how you move to an open app using shr-illume2? it doesn't appear tapping on the top shelf presents you with left and right arrows for moving between open apps... is this a current bug? |
| 15:27.42 | Fox_Muldr | yes, there seems to be a problem to start the softkey switcher |
| 15:28.00 | Fox_Muldr | just kill the softkey process and restart it in a terminal and it comes back |
| 15:28.02 | djp_ | Fox_Muldr: ah, thanks. back to shr-illume then. :) |
| 15:28.36 | Fox_Muldr | i think illume2 is better than illume1. like i said. just restart the process and you get the switcher bar at top |
| 15:28.56 | djp_ | Fox_Muldr: ah, ok. how do i do that from the terminal? |
| 15:29.11 | Fox_Muldr | seartch for the shr_softkey process pid |
| 15:29.26 | djp_ | Fox_Muldr: of course. sorry. |
| 15:29.30 | djp_ | Fox_Muldr: thanks |
| 15:29.41 | Fox_Muldr | and kill it's pid and restart it into background |
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| 16:06.09 | djp_ | Fox_Muldr: tried "ps -e | grep shr_softkey", but no pid is listed? |
| 16:06.28 | djp_ | Fox_Muldr: where am i going wrong ^? |
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| 17:44.24 | quitte | hi. took me a couple of years but i finally have a free phone. |
| 17:45.22 | quitte | now im trying to figure out what best to do with it. X seems to be horribly slow compared to directfb? |
| 17:45.55 | quitte | if that ist true, are there any frontends running on directfb except qtextended? |
| 17:47.16 | SpeedEvil | which version? |
| 17:47.23 | SpeedEvil | neo1973 or freerunner |
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| 17:52.06 | PaulFertser | quitte: who told you X is slow? |
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| 17:57.35 | quitte | PaulFertser: misinterpreted http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neoqplayer#Known_Problems . But it seemed to fit my experience with qtmoko compared to shr |
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| 17:58.02 | quitte | SpeedEvil: freerunner |
| 17:59.34 | SpeedEvil | The fundamental issue is that anything on the freerunner can be quite slow, as the graphics card has a 7 megabyte/second bus. |
| 18:04.04 | quitte | that's half the bus speed of isa iirc and should be enough for about 75 fps according to some quick calculations |
| 18:04.17 | SpeedEvil | umm - no |
| 18:04.25 | SpeedEvil | 24 bit remember |
| 18:04.49 | quitte | i used 24 bit but will do the math again |
| 18:04.53 | SpeedEvil | Also - the transfers to the CPU blocks. |
| 18:05.29 | quitte | i wouldn't mind using 16bit |
| 18:05.30 | SpeedEvil | 7*10^6/(640*480*3) |
| 18:05.30 | SpeedEvil | 7.59548611111111111111 |
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| 18:06.20 | PaulFertser | quitte: if you ask google you'll most probably find the lengthy and detailed explanations by Raster busting the "X is inherently slow" myth. |
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| 18:07.49 | quitte | i don't exactly care wether it is inherently slow. will i get anywhere near the snappiness of qtmoko with a x based distribution? |
| 18:08.40 | PaulFertser | quitte: have you tried SHR-u with 2.6.32 kernel? |
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| 18:13.10 | quitte | PaulFertser: I tried lite-om-gta02 yesterday with the kernel image that looked newest. but ill give it another try looking for the -u and the 32 |
| 18:17.11 | quitte | PaulFertser: the -u means micro sd? i had two and it seems the one i didn't loose at once is broken. so ill have to flash. for kernel .32 i guess that means remastering a jffs2 image? |
| 18:17.27 | quitte | also where can i find the kernel you are talking about? |
| 18:19.22 | PaulFertser | quitte: -u means shr unstable |
| 18:19.34 | PaulFertser | quitte: and now, you do not need to do anything with rootfs. |
| 18:19.38 | PaulFertser | s/now/no/ |
| 18:20.14 | PaulFertser | quitte: sorry, but questions about the suitable kernel is not something i'm currently able to answer, wait for the SHR folks. |
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| 18:21.20 | quitte | i'll just flash unstable in the meantime. thanks |
| 18:22.37 | PaulFertser | quitte: i do not say it's as speedy as qtmoko because i've never seen the latter, all i can say is qtmoko is not really hacker-friendly, hence i have no interest in it. |
| 18:25.29 | quitte | PaulFertser: i was thinking more of something like using gtk on directfb for my own experiments. |
| 18:25.51 | quitte | http://www.directfb.org/wiki/index.php/Projects:GTK_on_DirectFB |
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| 18:26.57 | PaulFertser | quitte: i do not think FB is decently accelerated on FR, and the interest of the leading graphics developer (Weiss) is quite low wrt fb. |
| 18:27.57 | quitte | so there is a xserver that is more than just a layer on top of fb? |
| 18:28.00 | PaulFertser | quitte: the idea is that: the applications that use X in a good way get roughly the same speed as DirectFB. And then when you start needing window management and such you're starting to reinvent X. |
| 18:28.18 | PaulFertser | quitte: of course, there's a dedicated accelerated x.org driver for glamo. |
| 18:35.26 | quitte | out of curiosity: does glamo need fb support, or could a kernel be built without it? |
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| 18:35.53 | slaxxer | http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=valve_steam_announcement&num=1 |
| 18:35.57 | PaulFertser | quitte: i'm not quite sure, probably the Weiss's kernel can be built without. |
| 18:38.20 | Weiss | you can't have both glamo-fb and glamo-drm drivers coexisting, because they do the same thing |
| 18:39.03 | PaulFertser | Weiss: i think you have provided some fb support through DRM, or am i confused? |
| 18:39.32 | Weiss | yep, but it's a little limited |
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| 18:39.47 | PaulFertser | And you do not care much |
| 18:40.18 | PaulFertser | Looks like i was almost right in all i told quitte |
| 18:41.05 | quitte | Weiss: could you be so kind and tell me which files i'm supposed to flash? as it takes forever i'd be very glad if i didn't have to try too many options until i catch up. |
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| 18:42.01 | Weiss | it's limited because in KMS-land it doesn't do much beyond providing a surface for the kernel's console messages |
| 18:42.18 | Weiss | which files? the kernel would be a good start.. (uImage-GTA02.bin) |
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| 18:42.43 | quitte | http://build.shr-project.org/shr-unstable/images/om-gta02/uImage-om-gta02-latest.bin ? |
| 18:42.47 | PaulFertser | quitte: i think JaMa|Gone should know better about the kernels he actually compiled and tried with SHR. |
| 18:47.23 | Weiss | quitte: I think that's the 2.6.29 (non-DRM) kernel, but it should work |
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| 18:48.51 | quitte | Weiss: does drm mean there will be 3d and maybe even h.263 acceleration? |
| 18:49.26 | Weiss | "will" in a very loose sense for 3D at least.. there's only about 10% of a driver there at the moment |
| 18:50.56 | quitte | great! i pretty much assumed there won't be any of gl and video acceleration ever |
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| 19:19.11 | djp_ | is anyone else here aware, that when the freerunner goes into suspend, using the latest release of shr-unstable (13.5.2010), it can't come out of suspend? basically, screen goes blank, flashing _ in top left corner and then nothing. |
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| 19:41.05 | quitte | how do i quit programs? |
| 19:41.38 | djp_ | quitte: using shr-illume2? |
| 19:41.55 | quitte | yes |
| 19:42.28 | djp_ | quitte: open a terminal and type "shr_elm_softkey" |
| 19:42.47 | quitte | you're kidding? |
| 19:43.05 | djp_ | quitte: then use the top bar to bring up the left, right and exit icons |
| 19:43.28 | quitte | does that mean i'm supposed to never quit a program? |
| 19:43.31 | djp_ | i gather shr_elm_softkey is not getting launched at boot, so you need to launch it manually |
| 19:43.34 | djp_ | at least i do |
| 19:44.01 | djp_ | quitte: you can then quit programs after launching shr_elm_softkey |
| 19:44.16 | djp_ | quitte: i gather you need to do that each time you boot mind. |
| 19:44.18 | quitte | ok. ill do that then. |
| 19:44.33 | quitte | do you know where i can get a drm enabled kernel and its modules? |
| 19:44.33 | djp_ | quitte: do you have trouble with suspend? |
| 19:44.44 | djp_ | quitte: sorry, no idea |
| 19:45.28 | djp_ | quitte: only reason i know about shr_elm_softkey is because i had the very same question earlier today! ;) |
| 19:45.34 | quitte | havent tried,yet. ill give it another try with the drm kernel and if that doesnt make much of a difference ill go back to qtmoko. |
| 19:46.00 | djp_ | quitte: i'm going to attempt another install, as when my freerunner goes into suspend, i can't get out of it! |
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| 22:26.30 | zub | huh, just booted shr-u image from 13th. it's asking me for PIN2. |
| 22:26.40 | zub | Does it really want some-other-pin, or should I just enter PIN? |
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| 22:31.26 | zub | djp_: http://lists.shr-project.org/pipermail/shr-user/2010-May/005108.html as you probably found by now |
| 22:42.32 | [Rui] | zub: pin |
| 22:42.59 | zub | yeah, I tried and it worked |
| 22:43.12 | zub | after upgrade it asks now for PIN anyway |
| 22:43.27 | zub | I was just a bit worrid, as I think there is such a think as PIN2... |
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| 23:00.13 | *** join/#openmoko kW_ (~kW@gprs33.swisscom-mobile.ch) |
| 23:00.33 | kW_ | Hello! I want to buy a modern phone and want it to be as working as possible (in terms of features, battery life, usability) and then as free as possible (in terms of hackability, compiling own kernels, software, ...), in that order. Has anybody recomendations which device to buy? |
| 23:01.20 | max_posedon | n900 |
| 23:01.32 | [Rui] | kW_: an OpenMoko Neo Freerunner V7 :) |
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| 23:01.35 | [Rui] | or V7+ |
| 23:01.40 | swoody | kW_: well if you come to this channel asking that question, I have to answer the FreeRunner ;) |
| 23:01.46 | zub | :) |
| 23:02.13 | [Rui] | A7 rathern than V7, sorry |
| 23:02.17 | swoody | I use it as my only phone, and it has not only been reliable and functional, but fun as well :) |
| 23:02.21 | max_posedon | kW_, if you want play with phone - n900 |
| 23:02.23 | [Rui] | kW_: http://www.handheld-linux.com/wiki.php?page=Neo%20Freerunner |
| 23:02.32 | max_posedon | if you want a toy, which can makes calls - Neo Freerunner |
| 23:02.42 | kW_ | well, I do own the freerunner |
| 23:02.59 | max_posedon | if you want smth between - look at palm pre |
| 23:03.03 | [Rui] | max_posedon: can you use N900 as a phone as well as the Neo with Free Software? No... :) |
| 23:03.24 | max_posedon | may be nexus one and so on, depend on Do you want hack gsm or not. |
| 23:03.37 | [Rui] | kW_: have you tried a recent shr-u? |
| 23:04.02 | kW_ | [Rui]: well, I just installed SHR testing yesterday |
| 23:04.22 | swoody | kW_: +1 [Rui] , I've found the disto you use on the FR to make a *world* of difference in opinion :) |
| 23:04.27 | [Rui] | if only current SHR-u was installed when they finally started selling the Freerunners... it would have been a resounding success! |
| 23:04.56 | kW_ | [Rui]: is there considerable difference between SHR-testing and SHR-unstable? |
| 23:05.04 | swoody | I use qtmoko, and have been very happy with it :) |
| 23:05.36 | [Rui] | kW_: as long as you keep backups and try to get a gist on the state of things before an upgrade, shr-u may be more interesting, YMMV |
| 23:06.08 | [Rui] | for instance, now in shr-u there's an EFL recent enough for me to move elmdentica from libcurl to ecore_con_url... |
| 23:07.25 | kW_ | I've been running on Om2008.12 and updates quite some time... and the final conclusion is that this is too unreliable for my applications (that is, have a working phone without a low battery and with the assurance that people can actually call you, with no crashed qpe threads in the background) |
| 23:07.58 | max_posedon | 2008.12? |
| 23:08.13 | max_posedon | hm.. may be you even saw dinasours) |
| 23:08.36 | kW_ | yes, I had no time and opportunity to switch distributions, because there is no software to convert the address book... |
| 23:09.08 | kW_ | additionally, for my additional feature|requirement (encryption of storage), it seems that the freerunner is simply too slow (spending more than 50% CPU time in kcryptd when accessing storage...) |
| 23:09.36 | max_posedon | try encrypt only important info, not all /usr |
| 23:10.43 | kW_ | max_posedon: well, some distros are happy to consider /usr as space for configuration, etc.... I cannot enforce the opposite as long as apps are run as root |
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| 23:11.46 | kW_ | [Rui]: what is the total achievable standby-time in SHR-unstable on the freerunner? |
| 23:12.10 | [Rui] | kW_: hard to say, I haven't tried with my replacement battery for some time |
| 23:13.03 | [Rui] | kW_: I'm still with the original battery, and I haven't had energy issues *but* I usually keep the phone charging so I seldom am low on energy |
| 23:13.09 | max_posedon | kW_, about 2 days |
| 23:13.24 | [Rui] | kW_: if you get the #1024 bug fixed, you get a WHOLE lot better standby-time |
| 23:13.26 | max_posedon | (with not fixed #1024 ) |
| 23:13.26 | kW_ | [Rui]: is there any possibility to convert pim-data between qpe-format, SHR-format and maybe some standard format (e.g. vcard...)? |
| 23:13.47 | [Rui] | I don't know if Pisi supports all that, perhaps it does |
| 23:13.58 | max_posedon | gpe-format might be can be exported to evolution |
| 23:14.08 | max_posedon | which may be can export too google contacts |
| 23:14.09 | [Rui] | I'm using Pisi to keep in sync opimd contacts with a vcf file with all my contacts. |
| 23:14.19 | [Rui] | mind you, the VCF must be format version 3 |
| 23:14.19 | max_posedon | and pisi can import google contacts |
| 23:17.17 | kW_ | well, this looks like good news |
| 23:17.23 | kW_ | I suppose SHR builds on opimd? |
| 23:17.57 | [Rui] | kW_: SHR builds on FSO, opim is one part of FSO and opimd one such daemon :) |
| 23:21.36 | kW_ | [Rui]: regarding SHR: what do I do when plugging-in the freerunner into my linux box and its syslog just says " usb 4-2: device not accepting address 11, error -71"? |
| 23:23.00 | [Rui] | kW_: erms... what GNU/Linux are you running? |
| 23:24.36 | kW_ | [Rui]: well, opensuse 11.2 with kernel 2.6.34-rc2 (note that the same device did connect before to the USB host when running Om2008.12) |
| 23:25.14 | [Rui] | kW_: well, you *surely* weren't running 2.6.34 then, much less an rc2 |
| 23:25.46 | [Rui] | kW_: if you compile your own kernel, either you missed something or then there's something new in 2.6.34 that breaks the connection |
| 23:26.26 | kW_ | well, I surely was running a Om2008.12 installation on the freerunner 2 days ago... |
| 23:26.38 | kW_ | until Qi did not want to boot from the SD card anymore... :-( |
| 23:27.10 | [Rui] | kW_: you mean you were running Om2008.12 *recently*? |
| 23:27.24 | kW_ | yes |
| 23:27.25 | [Rui] | kW_: lol, you must've been desperate :) |
| 23:27.35 | [Rui] | kW_: can you try shr-u ? |
| 23:27.52 | kW_ | sure, I can |
| 23:27.56 | [Rui] | or Debian, or qtmoko... whatever... :) |
| 23:28.03 | kW_ | can I upgrade from shr-testing to shr-unstable |
| 23:28.04 | [Rui] | even h:1 :) |
| 23:28.23 | [Rui] | kW_: I'm not sure, a daemon may come out and take your first-born if you do so, or not... |
| 23:28.36 | [Rui] | kW_: perhaps you could install a recent image |
| 23:28.53 | [Rui] | kW_: there's one from yesterday, I believe |
| 23:29.06 | kW_ | well, I can do this too (need to download it over the mobile phone network, though...) |
| 23:29.15 | [Rui] | kW_: http://build.shr-project.org/shr-unstable/images/om-gta02/ |
| 23:29.26 | [Rui] | kW_: ouch |
| 23:29.30 | numbah | a |
| 23:29.53 | kW_ | is it recommended to use the .ubi image? |
| 23:29.54 | [Rui] | kW_: don't you have a µ-sdhc card reader (and/or an adapter for normal sd)? |
| 23:30.16 | [Rui] | kW_: I don't know... I used to fetch the tgz, but I haven't in a long time... |
| 23:30.28 | [Rui] | I might fetch this one this weekend so I can start with a clean slate :) |
| 23:30.33 | kW_ | currently not, I'm traveling right now... but I do have a USB cable... |
| 23:31.01 | [Rui] | oh |
| 23:33.06 | [Rui] | well, good luck if you do anything... I'm going to bed now... :) |
| 23:34.51 | kW_ | hehe |
| 23:35.21 | [Rui] | ta! |
| 23:35.31 | zub | kW_: afaik there are still some problems with UBI wit current kernel, so unles you feel adventurous, don't jump on that just yet |
| 23:35.41 | zub | also, you'd need UBI-firendly Qi |
| 23:36.09 | kW_ | zub: ok, I'm fine with jffs, although I'm not afraid of flashing Qi |
| 23:36.44 | max_posedon | ubifs (if it works) is much nicer for phone |
| 23:37.09 | max_posedon | e.g. imho, neo works much better with it |
| 23:38.04 | zub | max_posedon: what kernel are you using? |
| 23:38.15 | kW_ | hmm |
| 23:38.41 | zub | I tried few months ago, and it happened to me sevral times that it would fail to mount on boot, after several successful mounts |
| 23:38.42 | max_posedon | zub, 2.6.29rc3 (shr-U default) |
| 23:38.46 | zub | that was a real showstopper :-( |
| 23:39.07 | zub | maybe it's better now, I just had the feeling I saw someone mentioning the issue (dunno if it was ML or irc) |
| 23:39.16 | max_posedon | hm, I haven't problems for about a 2-3 months |
| 23:39.27 | zub | then I might re-try |
| 23:39.59 | max_posedon | few months ago - we find out main problem - 'disabling background thread' fixed ubifs problems for most people |
| 23:40.07 | max_posedon | but still, it wasn't very reliable |
| 23:40.22 | max_posedon | but since 2.6.32 it should rocks |
| 23:40.42 | zub | btw. what's current status of GPS on SRH-U? I noticed there were some issue a week-two back, then I stopped watching the status |
| 23:41.10 | max_posedon | I used it every day during bike-travels, updated 2 days ago last time. |
| 23:41.16 | zub | ok :) |
| 23:41.37 | zub | while you're in a talkative mood - what's status of 2.6.32 kernel? :) |
| 23:41.51 | max_posedon | only one issue, for some reason phone can't change time from gps, but not a big problem |
| 23:41.58 | max_posedon | 2.6.32 have problems with suspend |
| 23:42.08 | max_posedon | but X(glamo) much faster on it |
| 23:42.13 | max_posedon | so, I use 2.6.29 |
| 23:43.22 | zub | if I felt adventurous... what's the best way to get 2.6.32? I have build some arm kernels in the past, but what's the om/shr way? |
| 23:43.28 | zub | is there a recipe for it in OE? |
| 23:43.34 | max_posedon | I don't know |
| 23:43.44 | zub | ok, n/p |
| 23:43.46 | max_posedon | I build kernels my own hands, when I want |
| 23:44.00 | zub | is there a defconfig for the FR? |
| 23:44.22 | max_posedon | I suggest take ones from shr's git repos |
| 23:44.32 | zub | ok, sounds reasonable |
| 23:47.17 | kW_ | When I see "Alignment trap: enlightenment (790) PC=0x4026d306 Instr=0x6027 Address=0xbef558b7 FSR 0x813" on my freerunner running SHR-testing, something is wrong, I suppose...? |
| 23:48.29 | max_posedon | kW_, yes and no |
| 23:48.44 | max_posedon | e.g. its smth wrong in e17 sources |
| 23:48.51 | max_posedon | and bug affects all platfroms |
| 23:49.03 | max_posedon | but it shouldn't stop running processes |
| 23:49.31 | zub | afaik it's unalignet memory access |
| 23:49.34 | zub | it's a performance issue |
| 23:49.53 | zub | kernel notices it, fixes it... you take perf. hit, but apart form that all works |
| 23:50.20 | zub | I've seen this being discussed in -cdevel, so I guess there's some work on this being done |
| 23:50.48 | kW_ | ah |
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