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| 02:55.16 | Emzzzz | http://imggmi.info/DSC-1268362126.jpg/ do my tits look big? |
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| 03:00.46 | ndnihil | oh great |
| 03:00.54 | ndnihil | more spam |
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| 04:09.07 | *** topic/#openmoko is Users of Openmoko Mobile Phone Hardware | WikiReader users, please join #openmoko-wikireader | Developers, please join #openmoko-cdevel | German folks might consider to join #openmoko-de | New Users read http://wiki.openmoko.org + http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html | Make sure to check http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Om_2009 |
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| 10:57.46 | rodion | hello! how can i read the freerunner's PSN from nand? (i'm using openwrt if it matters) |
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| 11:00.10 | PaulFertser | rodion: there's an ext2 NAND partition, mount it anywhere and read the serials. |
| 11:02.54 | rodion | PaulFertser: perfect, thanks. |
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| 11:07.58 | PaulFertser | rodion: ping me if you need more details |
| 11:08.20 | rodion | PaulFertser: i just mounted /dev/mtdblock5, it had a sn file ... i assume that's what i've been looking for ;() |
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| 11:09.04 | PaulFertser | rodion: just out of curiosity: why do you want that? |
| 11:10.04 | rodion | PaulFertser: we're currently considering using freerunner devices to control lego robots ... in our interface software, it's useful to be able to uniquely identify each freerunner and map it to one robot it controls. |
| 11:10.26 | rodion | and the serial number is supposed to identify the freerunner device. |
| 11:10.27 | PaulFertser | rodion: uber-cool. In fact i have |
| 11:11.09 | PaulFertser | expressed the thought that FR is the best suitable device to control robots for educational purposes. |
| 11:11.49 | rodion | it's definitely very well suited for that ... |
| 11:11.49 | PaulFertser | rodion: i wonder why not so many universities were interested in that. I'd say that's an ideal opportunity to both build interesting autonomous devices and to motivate students to contribute to free software. |
| 11:12.30 | rodion | i don't know. we're planning to have a student project in two weeks where students are to experiment with freerunners and lego robots. |
| 11:12.36 | rodion | i'll keep you updated on the results. |
| 11:13.57 | PaulFertser | I mean you can hardly find anything as suitable on the market. Evaluation boards cost a lot more and can hardly be used outside of the projects while with freerunner students can join the effort to bring free software support for telephony, to implement hundreds of interesting projects (e.g. the logic system like that ptitjes's orulesd based on some tricky prolog/Flora/whatever technologies) |
| 11:14.48 | PaulFertser | rodion: do not forget to ping me whenever you'll want some talk about lowlevel stuff ;) |
| 11:15.01 | rodion | great, i'll do. thanks! :) |
| 11:15.59 | Defiant | PaulFertser: Probably most of them never heard of the freerunner |
| 11:16.19 | PaulFertser | Defiant: i think everybody interested in free software have heard about openmoko. |
| 11:16.38 | Defiant | PaulFertser: depends on how much interested |
| 11:17.39 | PaulFertser | Defiant: well, it was advertised on every possible media i think. Any (geeky) news site had a story about them i think. |
| 11:19.01 | Defiant | PaulFertser: Also depends on how it was advertised, from the articles at heise.de or something I remember only stuff like open phone and not "hey you got an ARM with linux running and open hardware here" |
| 11:22.11 | PaulFertser | Defiant: open phone most probably means runs linux on arm -> should be evaluated if it fits the purpose. There're not many devices that can compete with it for custom applications, so every new in the field should draw attention. |
| 11:23.13 | PaulFertser | Defiant: and in fact the only mass-produced open phone in the market should naturally draw attention regardless everything else. |
| 11:23.48 | Fossi | there are some videos up on youtube of robots controlled by the fr |
| 11:24.00 | Fossi | was more or less one of the first things people did with it |
| 11:24.46 | PaulFertser | Fossi: why do not we see hundreds of students helping with the kernel, FSO etc etc then? |
| 11:25.10 | *** join/#openmoko raster (~raster@enlightenment/developer/raster) |
| 11:25.21 | Fossi | well, it's another step being adepted by big unis |
| 11:25.45 | Fossi | i just said that there are quite some vids up that show that some people use the fr that way |
| 11:27.18 | PaulFertser | Fossi: but what options do unis have for robotics projects? At the very minimum they need a portable device that has usb host and runs linux and be cheap. I do not know anything else that fits this description. PDA's are almost universally crippled and run winmo. |
| 11:28.32 | rodion | PaulFertser: android is one alternative, especially now that more devices are usb-host enabled. |
| 11:28.46 | rodion | e.g. there are patches for the hero and the motorola droid |
| 11:28.47 | PaulFertser | And only FR is multi-purpose: not only robotics but almost infinite possibilities for different telecommunication-related projects and other cool ideas. |
| 11:29.13 | Fossi | yeah, well. tell them, not me ;) |
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| 11:30.52 | PaulFertser | rodion: well... At the time Openmoko was announced there was no android, no NDK for it, no anything. And even now i'd consider android to be a suboptimal platform: far from mainstream (you won't get driver/fixes for the kernel; you won't have your favorite *nix applications), stupid SDK instead of regular working environment etc etc. |
| 11:31.15 | PaulFertser | rodion: also FR is 2x (or more) cheaper. |
| 11:31.26 | PaulFertser | And was cheaper back then. |
| 11:31.36 | PaulFertser | rodion: and has i2c exposed |
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| 11:32.16 | rodion | PaulFertser: yeah, that's true. but i guess it's still an appealing alternative to many. |
| 11:33.27 | PaulFertser | So my question is: how come universities weren't interested in the best (and the only back then, not counting anti-vendor ports to iPAQs and the like) device fulfilling the requirements? |
| 11:34.49 | PaulFertser | Hm, i even know the guy with the answer. :) Good morning, raster :) |
| 11:36.49 | raster | huh? |
| 11:36.54 | raster | blinks |
| 11:36.55 | raster | :) |
| 11:36.57 | raster | PaulFertser: hey hey |
| 11:37.37 | PaulFertser | raster: would you like me to rephrase the question or can you read one page of backlog instead? ;) |
| 11:39.53 | raster | i need to scroll back methinks |
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| 11:40.01 | methril_work | morning |
| 11:41.08 | raster | PaulFertser: if i was a uni - i'd use the smartq5. |
| 11:41.15 | raster | much cheaper than the fr |
| 11:41.18 | raster | much more powerful |
| 11:41.25 | raster | and still has all the necessary bits |
| 11:41.31 | PaulFertser | raster: i think they appeared later, no? |
| 11:41.39 | raster | yes |
| 11:41.41 | raster | not much though |
| 11:41.55 | raster | universiti4es are also going to be tiny volumes |
| 11:42.04 | raster | 1 uni would buy like 5 - maybe |
| 11:42.33 | PaulFertser | Also smartq lacks any kind of GSM. |
| 11:42.41 | DocScrutinizer | raster: o/ |
| 11:42.48 | PaulFertser | Accelerometers |
| 11:43.20 | SpeedEvil | Or http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/mini2440-S3C2440-ARM9-Board-3-5-TFT-LCD-Touch-Screen_W0QQitemZ120512554488QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item1c0f1ba5f8 or similar |
| 11:43.56 | raster | PaulFertser: very rare u need the gsm |
| 11:43.57 | PaulFertser | raster: and what suprises me is why we see almost no students reasonably participating, neither now, nor before. |
| 11:44.13 | raster | gsm as such is largely useless for a large host of uses due to latency |
| 11:44.20 | raster | its useful for some - but its limited |
| 11:44.44 | PaulFertser | raster: i mean to me it sounds like an excellent idea: to combine a development board with a cool gadget. |
| 11:44.47 | raster | but either way - universities still dont matter muhc in terms of unit sales |
| 11:44.53 | raster | they are way too small. |
| 11:44.54 | PaulFertser | That is something that should motivate students a lot. |
| 11:45.09 | raster | DocScrutinizer: docz! |
| 11:45.32 | raster | PaulFertser: also rememebr - very few universities do REAL hardware |
| 11:45.40 | raster | that may happen only later as a phd |
| 11:46.05 | raster | most students doing their undergrads - whihc is the vast majority of students... do it all with simulators invariably |
| 11:46.13 | raster | its a LOT cheaper |
| 11:46.18 | raster | and still teaches the same basics |
| 11:46.24 | PaulFertser | raster: what do you mean when you say "do"? I'm yet to see a student doing some upstreaming or driver writing for freerunner. |
| 11:46.38 | raster | as most of the basics undergrad degrees teach are pretty thin on depth |
| 11:46.52 | raster | not saying FR |
| 11:46.54 | PaulFertser | How can write and debug a kernelspace driver in emulator? |
| 11:46.56 | raster | just sayin in generla |
| 11:46.59 | raster | general |
| 11:47.09 | raster | most universities have no need FOR hw unless its for postgrads |
| 11:47.13 | raster | thus - volumes are low |
| 11:47.29 | raster | (most unis - sure the prominent ones you know the names of that cost a lot to go to may do it... MOSt will not) |
| 11:47.40 | raster | and student dont learn writign drivers |
| 11:47.43 | raster | u have to be joking |
| 11:47.51 | raster | its rare they do |
| 11:47.58 | PaulFertser | raster: also: do you remember ptitjes's work about orulesd: that cool prolog stuff to provide an ultimate flexibility of automated handling of anything a smartphone user faces? |
| 11:48.20 | raster | and if they do...it tends to be in very minimalist os simulation harnesses so they dont have the complexity of a linux kernel to worry about |
| 11:48.31 | raster | no |
| 11:48.33 | raster | dont remember |
| 11:48.42 | raster | but - that doesnt change anything |
| 11:48.43 | PaulFertser | raster: he presented it at FSOSHRUDEVCON |
| 11:49.04 | raster | REALITY is the vast majority of unis just are not interested in somehting liek a fr - for anything |
| 11:49.13 | raster | a few might |
| 11:49.15 | PaulFertser | raster: that's real cool stuff, prolog+Flora blablabla, it makes a real opportunity to turn CS knowlegde in a cool geeky application. |
| 11:49.44 | raster | it may be |
| 11:49.47 | raster | but its rare |
| 11:49.50 | raster | as i said |
| 11:50.10 | raster | and a few rare peole interested in something like the fr - for that kind of price... makes for a VERY small volume |
| 11:50.29 | PaulFertser | I thought every decent CS student learns some functional programming and probably some prolog/logic programming too. But only ptitjes was interested, that's what surprises me a lot! |
| 11:50.59 | Fossi | ahaha |
| 11:51.16 | Fossi | you should visit some unis or talk to students |
| 11:51.23 | Fossi | that'd get your image straight |
| 11:51.26 | PaulFertser | raster: you're talking about volume, but i'm talking about students. Where the hell are they, why do not they take part in one of the coolest communities in this world? |
| 11:51.36 | raster | PaulFertser: they do - and none of it cares about any hardware |
| 11:51.50 | raster | i personally hated miranda and prolog |
| 11:52.07 | raster | functionoal langs make me want to kill people. |
| 11:52.33 | PaulFertser | Fossi: hm, in fact i'm kinda teaching at a local "uni". But i'm not surprised it sucks, it's not supposed to be a good one. |
| 11:52.35 | raster | VERY few students doing a CS degree actually RERALLY are interested in things |
| 11:52.50 | raster | MOST want to get a degree so they czan eventually become an IT manager and earn big money |
| 11:52.52 | raster | they dont care |
| 11:52.56 | Fossi | other than money that is ;D |
| 11:53.04 | PaulFertser | Oh hell, you're ruining my ideal world again |
| 11:53.07 | raster | thats why for 90%+ windows is great - its the environment they want to be in as thats what they will manage |
| 11:53.15 | PaulFertser | I thought it sucks like that only here... |
| 11:53.38 | raster | very few of the students are 1. ineterseted enough and 2. smart enough to actually do things like try linux, learn about the kernel etc. |
| 11:53.54 | raster | i can say from my experience thats maybe 10% of students who aree interested and capable enough |
| 11:53.57 | raster | maaaaybe |
| 11:54.09 | PaulFertser | Ok, got the idea. |
| 11:54.21 | PaulFertser | raster: may i ask another weird question that bothers me? |
| 11:54.25 | raster | of those that have the perserverence to deal with beasts lik4e the kernel, x.org, and god knows what other massive codebase beast where have in oss today |
| 11:54.38 | PaulFertser | raster: why the majority of people i meet on IRC are from Germany? |
| 11:54.39 | raster | maybe 10% of those (1% of students) will really manage in the end |
| 11:54.55 | raster | and that ios assuming they have the encouragment, facilities and more. |
| 11:54.58 | Fossi | because germany rocks ;p |
| 11:55.18 | raster | PaulFertser: because the channels you are in are particularly centric i guess around germans |
| 11:55.24 | raster | most i meet are actually from the usa |
| 11:55.47 | raster | but.. that makes sense - it's the largest "single" entity that speaks english on the internet :) |
| 11:55.48 | PaulFertser | raster: but why is that? openmoko community is largely german, same about openwrt, openocd, god knows what else. |
| 11:55.57 | raster | i meet enough french people too |
| 11:56.09 | raster | thats likely a bi-product of harald |
| 11:56.10 | DocScrutinizer | thinks PaulFertser doesn't appreciate german biased channels :-/ |
| 11:56.12 | raster | almsot entirely |
| 11:56.29 | PaulFertser | DocScrutinizer: nope, quite the opposite. Unless they speak german all the time :) |
| 11:56.30 | raster | imho |
| 11:56.35 | rodion | widerstand ist zwecklos! :) |
| 11:56.40 | raster | hahahahah |
| 11:56.55 | raster | was wird passieren? |
| 11:56.55 | DocScrutinizer | if <0.1 Ohm |
| 11:57.01 | raster | hehehe |
| 11:57.01 | Fossi | who or what's harald? |
| 11:57.14 | PaulFertser | raster: but really, it looks like the free software commuinity is in fact dominated by the germans now. |
| 11:57.17 | DocScrutinizer | Harald Welte |
| 11:57.21 | raster | harald welte - laforge |
| 11:57.33 | raster | PaulFertser: i would say that is wrong. :) |
| 11:57.46 | DocScrutinizer | mastermind of... err I wont eve try to start |
| 11:57.54 | raster | your view of it may involve an unusually large # of germans - but i dont think they dominate it |
| 11:57.57 | Fossi | hmmm. never heard of him |
| 11:58.00 | raster | as such the germans will be more visible |
| 11:58.14 | raster | 1. they tend to spreak english better than mosty non-english native speakers |
| 11:58.25 | raster | so they WILL simply be out there more |
| 11:58.45 | DocScrutinizer | Fossi: google is your friend ;-) |
| 11:58.56 | raster | the dutch, and scandinavians etc. also are great at english - but there are just many fewer of them |
| 11:59.11 | PaulFertser | raster: e.g. the stats for the web browser say that firefox is the most popular in DE, comparing to other EU countries. |
| 11:59.33 | rodion | PaulFertser: is that normalized by population? |
| 11:59.35 | rodion | or absolute numbers? |
| 11:59.47 | raster | and the swiss+austrians blend in with the germans - so that emans u have maybe 100mil or so german speakers who overal handle english very well and are not shy - thus, your view will have a disproportionate percentage of germans in it - if u are and english speaker. |
| 11:59.49 | PaulFertser | rodion: i need to find it but i think normalised. |
| 12:00.07 | raster | (compared to french, italians, spanish, hell most of south america etc.) |
| 12:00.21 | raster | PaulFertser: as a % - of the 80mil germans |
| 12:00.25 | raster | thats just a % |
| 12:00.51 | raster | but as absolute numbers - no. |
| 12:01.03 | raster | the americans still dominate (if you come from an english speaking world) |
| 12:01.26 | raster | i dont have numebrs to back that up - but i'm willing to bet that if you dig them up - that is the case. |
| 12:01.53 | raster | (count % of oss devs, or % of linux users - doesnt matter.. the usa will have more than .de of the oss world) |
| 12:02.28 | DocScrutinizer | KDE is different though |
| 12:02.34 | PaulFertser | Ok, will probably try to get the stats somewhere. |
| 12:02.43 | DocScrutinizer | seems to me it's a german project |
| 12:03.52 | DocScrutinizer | on OM maybe 50% of the westerners were Germans |
| 12:03.54 | DocScrutinizer | iirc |
| 12:05.00 | DocScrutinizer | or more or less from German language domain |
| 12:05.19 | DocScrutinizer | werner |
| 12:05.29 | DocScrutinizer | even Carsten Haitzler ;-) |
| 12:05.31 | PaulFertser | Of the higher level programs i use daily: gnu screen, mutt, irssi, mcabber, vim, emacs, bash only the last two are non EU projects i think. |
| 12:07.25 | PaulFertser | ion3 :) |
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| 12:11.43 | Fossi | well most of those are ancient |
| 12:11.57 | PaulFertser | Fossi: hm, most of those are in active development |
| 12:12.28 | Fossi | well, as in: their origins might tell more about the people currently developing them, than anything else |
| 12:12.31 | Fossi | but i might be wrong |
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| 13:14.46 | pespin | PaulFertser, about students not participating in OSS software, I agree with raster. Most of CS students don't mind about it. |
| 13:15.10 | pespin | I've started CS univ this year at Barcelona, ad that's what I've seen |
| 13:15.32 | PaulFertser | pespin: i can understand how that can happen, unless they really want to become some managers or for some other reasons do not love the field. |
| 13:16.10 | PaulFertser | s/can/can't/ |
| 13:16.30 | pespin | PaulFertser, I'm starting to think/see that CS student != hacker/OSS devel ;) |
| 13:16.50 | pespin | they are 2 separate things |
| 13:16.57 | PaulFertser | pespin: but who are they? TBH, i do not know any. There's no CS at our uni at all. |
| 13:18.17 | pespin | it's just people who wants a degree, they chose CS as they could choose any other engineering degree |
| 13:18.23 | pespin | do they don't mind at all |
| 13:19.06 | pespin | s/do / |
| 13:19.38 | PaulFertser | pespin: how is education for CS based then? I thought studying LLVM and gcc to get idea about compiler internals, Linux kernel to get idea about kernel stuff, scheme or CL and Haskell to get FP experience, etc etc. I can't see how CS education can be done any other way. |
| 13:20.01 | SpeedEvil | gcc is way too complex. |
| 13:20.14 | pespin | PaulFertser, I can't tell you lot's of it, as I haven't done them. |
| 13:20.40 | rodion | the linux kernel is also quite complex. i took an os course were we extended minix, that was really fun. |
| 13:20.41 | PaulFertser | SpeedEvil: the fact it's constantly evolving and works on more and more platforms proves it's not that complex to be unmanageable i guess. |
| 13:20.42 | pespin | but ie. in first quatrimester we had "Introduction to Computers" |
| 13:20.42 | Fossi | most of the CS students never get near a "hacking" state anyway |
| 13:20.58 | rodion | Fossi: true. and they don't even want to. |
| 13:20.58 | pespin | ad it was based on building a 16 bit basic computer |
| 13:21.16 | pespin | all was teoric, and we had labs in which we used a simulator using LogicWorks |
| 13:21.30 | SpeedEvil | Unmanagable - maybe not. |
| 13:21.33 | Fossi | compiler courses are mostly put off until the master or post-doc courses |
| 13:21.37 | SpeedEvil | A good learning platform - doubtful. |
| 13:21.44 | PaulFertser | pespin: do you mean you build a system in verilog/vhdl? |
| 13:22.10 | PaulFertser | has no idea about logicworks |
| 13:22.14 | Fossi | and our kernel/OS course consisted of an old unix/mainframe-using prof drawing diagrams about deadlocks |
| 13:22.31 | Fossi | i even didn't get it sometimes and nobody cared |
| 13:22.45 | PaulFertser | Fossi: i thought e.g. RCU stuff was introduced by some cool CS folks... |
| 13:22.45 | pespin | PaulFertser, it's more about logic gates, multiplexors, etc. And with that create bigger things, etc. |
| 13:22.54 | Fossi | all you had to do was learn them and know them by heart so you could draw them *exactly* as he did in the test |
| 13:23.01 | PaulFertser | pespin: isn't any HDL about that? ;) |
| 13:23.03 | pespin | let me see if I can get some papers to show you |
| 13:23.21 | Fossi | PaulFertser: well, that's 0.0001% of all CS students |
| 13:24.00 | Fossi | i wouldn't hire about 90% of my old class |
| 13:24.25 | PaulFertser | Fossi: well, the fact uni education is mostly fake in russia is something i got used to long time ago. But i have difficulties it's the case for more sane countries... |
| 13:24.27 | Fossi | and we scored pretty good grades in uni comparisons in germany |
| 13:24.33 | PaulFertser | difficulties believing |
| 13:25.03 | Fossi | nah, same bullshit everywhere. then again: most people aren't really that much into CS who study it |
| 13:25.14 | Fossi | so i guess they learn a lot somehow |
| 13:25.21 | Fossi | even if only half of it sticks |
| 13:25.40 | PaulFertser | wished he had some CS education... |
| 13:25.51 | Fossi | but most of that is so basic any interested hacker could skip 6/8 semesters |
| 13:26.25 | Fossi | it's kinda nice to know the formalities of some things |
| 13:26.37 | Fossi | but mainly it was a waste of time :D |
| 13:26.58 | PaulFertser | Everything's a waste of time. It's all about the attitude. |
| 13:27.29 | DocScrutinizer | ( any interested hacker could skip) exactly my thought, and I took my consequences ;-P |
| 13:27.49 | PaulFertser | Most people do not need e.g. set theory but it doesn't make it less important or fun. |
| 13:28.04 | pespin | PaulFertser, here you have a final exam of the subject, there's specifications of the computer used at the end: http://dafib.upc.edu/llista-examens/IC/Examen%20IC%202005-2006-Q1%20(Final%20-%20Enunciat).pdf |
| 13:30.31 | PaulFertser | pespin: i guess with that knowledge one can actually make some useful FPGA projects. |
| 13:31.04 | PaulFertser | pespin: this looks ok for a small introductory course |
| 13:31.14 | DocScrutinizer | PaulFertser: not if you just repeat facts you learnt letter by letter |
| 13:31.17 | PaulFertser | (after one learned digital logic basics of course) |
| 13:31.17 | pespin | PaulFertser, yeah, it's intented as that :) |
| 13:31.34 | pespin | (FPGA) yes, but univer doesn't try to encourage you to do so |
| 13:32.45 | PaulFertser | pespin: hm, strange. It's mad simple nowadays even for hobbists. |
| 13:32.58 | Fossi | well, most of the courses weren't half bad actually, but the students didn't care much. i bet they remember about 10% of the whole background |
| 13:33.11 | Fossi | and most don't understand how it all connects imho |
| 13:33.54 | pespin | this quatrimeter I'm doing Computer Estructures 1, which docus on assembler and continuing with |
| 13:33.55 | PaulFertser | Why are they kept then? |
| 13:34.10 | pespin | s/docus/focus |
| 13:34.34 | PaulFertser | We keep bad students at our uni just because if we get rid of them we'll lose money -> gotta get rid of some teachers. |
| 13:34.42 | DocScrutinizer | see, every school pupil learns boolen algebra (at least here), and still I see constructs like "if foo() == true..." |
| 13:34.48 | pespin | this assingature, thought, it's based on using the 16 bit computer used in the first subject |
| 13:35.26 | PaulFertser | Also when everybody around keeps bad students you just have to, because they (governmental structures who give money) compare by quantity, and not by quality. |
| 13:35.55 | DocScrutinizer | probably a lot of CS students think their Nintendo + PSP experience qualifies them for this profession |
| 13:35.59 | pespin | here at the univ I am, half the students don't pass the "selection phase", and have to abandon |
| 13:37.23 | DocScrutinizer | "hey can't be that hard. I know how to install windows since I've been 16..." |
| 13:37.57 | PaulFertser | It'd be also kinda sad to throw out a nice guy/girl who's just not naturally capable enough. They're mostly nice people... |
| 13:38.00 | pespin | gf is here, have to go, see ya |
| 13:38.10 | PaulFertser | pespin: thanks, good bye |
| 13:38.14 | PaulFertser | Have a nice day |
| 13:40.27 | PaulFertser | DocScrutinizer: i'm also amazed by the fact many students have difficulties learning basics of imperative programming. Really, it's 100x easier than any real math or physics. |
| 13:40.58 | DocScrutinizer | yep |
| 13:41.56 | DocScrutinizer | for a person *thinking* about the things he/she does, it is. A lot of people seem to be driven by belly feeling though |
| 13:45.26 | DocScrutinizer | more often than not my friends get impatient with me when we do any actions, for me thinking a few steps ahead rather than rushing in and see where that gets us |
| 13:45.26 | DocScrutinizer | to |
| 13:46.12 | PaulFertser | Heh, that's frustrating, i know. |
| 13:48.43 | DocScrutinizer | my way: do 20 phonecalls, then visit one shop to fetch the item. Common way: run from one shop to the other, often ending with getting nothing at all except exhaustment in the end of the day. Still it's the prefered method - bewildering |
| 13:49.38 | PaulFertser | DocScrutinizer: and then they call you a lazy ass for sitting at home :) |
| 13:49.50 | DocScrutinizer | yep |
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| 13:53.40 | PaulFertser | Also common way: go to the nearest shop, get random part, complain on ubuntu forums it doesn't work. |
| 13:54.03 | DocScrutinizer | ah that one I love most, yeah |
| 13:58.07 | DocScrutinizer | heh, an nice picture on TV :-) wide sandy flatland with single house in the background. a dusty "street" to the house, a sign "dead end" yellow australia style, left along that street a line of posts with phone wires, right of the street a lijne of posts with power wires |
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| 14:12.01 | blindcoder | hrm... is it worth to pay 100 euro extra to get the headset _now_ instead of in a few days? |
| 14:17.19 | DocScrutinizer | huh?? |
| 14:17.40 | DocScrutinizer | hardly, whatever the headset might be |
| 14:19.28 | Hardy | hardly? |
| 14:19.31 | Hardy | not hardy`? |
| 14:20.59 | PaulFertser | I can't imagine a sitation where one needs to pay 100EUR more for a headset. |
| 14:22.43 | SpeedEvil | It comes with a vacuum rated helmet. |
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| 14:30.23 | petrus | hello I've got a freerunner as a gift. model:GTA02, datecode: 20081029 I cannot find some characters ( / for example) in the terminal, so I am pretty much stuck right at the beginning. any advice, please? |
| 14:37.05 | PaulFertser | pespin: slide up on the keyboard |
| 14:41.41 | petrus | ??? |
| 14:42.07 | PaulFertser | pespin: meant for you |
| 14:42.11 | PaulFertser | petrus: ^^^ |
| 14:42.14 | PaulFertser | pespin: sorry :))) |
| 14:42.31 | PaulFertser | petrus: try to press on the keyboard, slide up, depress. It should change the layout |
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| 14:44.01 | petrus | PaulFertser: this operation does not work for me. what I see on the my screen is very different what I see in the docs and wiki pages. |
| 14:44.13 | PaulFertser | petrus: what distro are you running? |
| 14:44.39 | petrus | I cannot say exactly since I cannot type / |
| 14:44.54 | PaulFertser | petrus: if you do not know, just flash the latest shr-testing. |
| 14:45.45 | petrus | PaulFertser: how can I do this without a proper control of all characters in my terminal? |
| 14:46.24 | PaulFertser | petrus: instead of booting the system fully you boot to NOR u-boot and flash with dfu-util. |
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| 14:49.01 | petrus | PaulFertser: sorry, I have no idea what you are talking about. I've just open the box, could not find much info related to what I see on my phone. |
| 14:49.12 | PaulFertser | petrus: http://wiki.openmoko.org |
| 14:49.18 | PaulFertser | petrus: and there you'll find Flashing |
| 14:49.25 | petrus | PaulFertser: could you, perhaps, give some URL-s to the wiki I should start? |
| 14:49.54 | PaulFertser | petrus: obviously: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Flashing_the_Neo_FreeRunner |
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| 14:50.53 | PaulFertser | petrus: do not backup anything |
| 14:51.01 | PaulFertser | petrus: it doesn't work with nor u-boot anyway. |
| 14:51.19 | PaulFertser | petrus: when you'll want to backup something later, use scp/rsync for that. |
| 14:51.48 | petrus | PaulFertser: I cannot follow these instructions if I cannot type / |
| 14:52.21 | petrus | PaulFertser: I am reading the wiki pages right now |
| 14:52.35 | PaulFertser | petrus: hope you can read the wiki pages without typing / |
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| 14:59.12 | petrus | PaulFertser: very funny -- actually I can't since I am using vim like keyboard shortcuts in my browser. |
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| 15:11.14 | DocScrutinizer | petrus: to flash a new system (in case you want a different distro or recover from a broken system) it's quite obviously helping a lot you don't need to type *anything* on the borked device. It's all via your PC you use to flash the new system to FreeRunner |
| 15:13.55 | petrus | DocScrutinizer: thanks, I start seeing that as I am reading the related wiki pages. I'll give it a try soon. |
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| 18:10.15 | PBeck | hi |
| 18:11.33 | pbaxter | hi PB |
| 18:11.42 | pbaxter | PBeck, hi |
| 18:13.03 | PBeck | hi pbaxter |
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| 18:24.27 | DocScrutinizer51 | hi |
| 18:24.56 | DocScrutinizer51 | hai kuckuk |
| 18:25.15 | DocScrutinizer51 | kuckuck: hai! |
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| 18:25.59 | PBeck | DocScrutinizer51: great :P |
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