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| 04:09.40 | naquan | hi everyone, is there a command to force reinstall all packages in SHR. The graphic acts weird after yesterday upgrade. |
| 04:16.01 | DocScrutinizer | opkg --force-reinstall ? |
| 04:18.17 | *** join/#openmoko naught101 (~abcdef@125.168.34.33) |
| 04:24.01 | naquan | DocScrutinizer: i found it: opkg -force-reinstall install `opkg list_installed | sed 's/ - .*//'` |
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| 04:24.35 | DocScrutinizer | oops, the sed was new to me |
| 04:25.52 | DocScrutinizer | otherwise that's basically same as the simplest method to 'upgrade' on low memory |
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| 04:38.49 | slaxxer | here comes more snow |
| 04:40.09 | DocScrutinizer | keep it with you, please. Almost bearable temperatures here atm |
| 04:41.16 | DocScrutinizer | wooohooo! forecast says 10C today, even 12C on Sunday :-D |
| 04:49.51 | mwester | 0C on Sunday... -10 or so right now. |
| 04:50.02 | mwester | Global warming, apparently. |
| 04:50.05 | mwester | Sigh. |
| 04:50.38 | mwester | I should sue Al Gore and force him to deliver on his promise. My heating bills are insane this year. |
| 04:52.04 | DocScrutinizer | hmm, from what I seem to remember, I got the impression you burn the cut down trees from your large garden |
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| 05:01.34 | DocScrutinizer | well thefuckingweather.com says it's +2C right now, but my RF-thermometer reads 4.2C |
| 05:01.50 | DocScrutinizer | downtown bonus ;-) |
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| 05:33.02 | PaulFertser | ~0C here |
| 05:33.34 | PaulFertser | Feels surprisingly warm. Too warm to walk in my regular clothes in fact. |
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| 05:35.51 | PaulFertser | DocScrutinizer: is it still evening for you? :) |
| 05:36.03 | DocScrutinizer | yup |
| 05:36.46 | DocScrutinizer | though I decided to witch to "morning mode" without any intermediate states |
| 05:37.02 | PaulFertser | Good morning then :D |
| 05:37.10 | DocScrutinizer | good morning :-D |
| 05:37.49 | DocScrutinizer | time for a coffee |
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| 05:59.14 | DocScrutinizer | PaulFertser: any notion how hard it might be to RE and patch a armel ELF? |
| 05:59.50 | PaulFertser | DocScrutinizer: i guess it all depends on the size and complexity of a particular binary. |
| 06:00.47 | DocScrutinizer | hmm, yes for *complete* RE that's true, idependant of arch |
| 06:01.02 | PaulFertser | DocScrutinizer: my latest x86 REing attempt ended in me needing help with understanding dynamic relocations. objdump -R solved most of those but other cases of indirect procedure calls still puzzle me. |
| 06:01.20 | PaulFertser | DocScrutinizer: what are you after? |
| 06:01.33 | DocScrutinizer | yep that's more of the issues I had in mind |
| 06:02.09 | DocScrutinizer | patchiung maemo5 mce to keep fingers out of LP5523 kbd backlight engine3 |
| 06:02.12 | DocScrutinizer | for example |
| 06:03.16 | PaulFertser | DocScrutinizer: a perfect opportunity to test StsKeeps's opensourcing system, no? ;) |
| 06:03.27 | DocScrutinizer | yes, as well |
| 06:05.34 | PaulFertser | DocScrutinizer: if the method to control LP5523 is known patching out access to it shouldn't be that hard. Also you can probably go the other way: LD_PRELOAD tricks or even a SELinux rule ;) |
| 06:05.37 | DocScrutinizer | look, they're wasting engine3 for stupid silly kbd backlight switch-on/off. For e.g. screen-BL they obviously can do that in sw. So WTF are they blocking one of the three engines, while you got a 3color notification LED |
| 06:06.01 | DocScrutinizer | hrhrrrhrrrrrr |
| 06:06.06 | DocScrutinizer | likes those ideas |
| 06:06.41 | DocScrutinizer | access to LP5523 is via sysfs very likely |
| 06:07.40 | DocScrutinizer | could SElinux stop access to a specific sysfs node? |
| 06:08.29 | PaulFertser | raster: no CAD files for the case? Why? |
| 06:08.40 | DocScrutinizer | huh? |
| 06:08.40 | PaulFertser | raster: how on earth does it make any sense? |
| 06:09.07 | PaulFertser | DocScrutinizer: you do not read community ML where raster shares his insights on the business and mobile devices ;) |
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| 06:09.24 | DocScrutinizer | are you kidding |
| 06:09.26 | DocScrutinizer | ? |
| 06:09.32 | PaulFertser | DocScrutinizer: sure, SELinux can do that. |
| 06:09.49 | DocScrutinizer | I stopped reading [community] some 15months ago |
| 06:10.26 | raster | PaulFertser: i dont see that happening. the hw side of makidg gadgets is far from even clooking at "open source" |
| 06:10.32 | DocScrutinizer | (SE) never used it |
| 06:10.33 | raster | letalone actually being freidnly to it |
| 06:10.35 | PaulFertser | DocScrutinizer: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2010-February/060482.html |
| 06:10.42 | raster | its not going to happen because of the reality of life |
| 06:11.00 | raster | you have no support - and you actually have no good case to make |
| 06:11.06 | raster | source for software makes sense |
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| 06:11.25 | raster | for hw design (be it schemtics or case) it makes very little sense |
| 06:11.33 | PaulFertser | raster: unavailability of CAD files doesn't stop chinese manufacturers from producing _numerous_ clones and derivatives of all kinds. |
| 06:12.32 | PaulFertser | raster: i'd guess case designs would make an opportunity for custom niche products with added on functionality and/or ability to adopt a general purpose device to specific needs. |
| 06:13.04 | DocScrutinizer | moos at raster |
| 06:13.53 | raster | DocScrutinizer: mooo! |
| 06:14.02 | raster | PaulFertser: it still doesnt make sense |
| 06:14.05 | PaulFertser | raster: just the same as software: you advocate opennens because of 3rd-party software developers that can produce both mass- and niche-market solutions. Why hardware is not the same? |
| 06:14.29 | raster | 1. open for software makes sense. why? the cost of entry into looking at code. modifying and trying those modificatiosn and distributing them is VERY LOW |
| 06:14.31 | raster | not so with hw |
| 06:14.37 | raster | be it electronics or case |
| 06:14.37 | DocScrutinizer | for the schematics a honestly disagree. There's no other documentation about how to write drivers for, and exploit fully the hw |
| 06:14.48 | raster | its a totally different world of economies |
| 06:14.53 | PaulFertser | _And_ extending it. |
| 06:15.13 | raster | opening schemtics AND case design simply hads everything on a platter to chinese knockoffs |
| 06:15.18 | PaulFertser | If one wants to add an i2c magnetometer or altimeter or something, what options will it have with your hardware? |
| 06:15.26 | raster | i even support companeis not being open on their own apps - themes, icons nand other ip |
| 06:15.31 | raster | the thnig that makes the product theirs |
| 06:15.49 | raster | the core software thatrs the same prettymuch everhwhere - thats one thing |
| 06:16.13 | raster | PaulFertser: you can make that argument all you like. the economies are utterly different |
| 06:16.14 | DocScrutinizer | raster: that's a joke. chinese cloners buy 3 devices, desolder everything and let 9 blue monkeys check eacxh trace with a voltmeter |
| 06:16.25 | PaulFertser | "ip" doesn't exist in fact and you know that. This term was constructed to lie about the life and the law. |
| 06:16.38 | DocScrutinizer | *THEY* do _not_ need the schematics |
| 06:16.38 | raster | where u have 10,000 develoeprs ready to screw with your code, you have 10 ready to build their own i2c attachments |
| 06:16.51 | raster | DocScrutinizer: sure - but they do it illegally. |
| 06:17.08 | DocScrutinizer | they simply don't care |
| 06:17.13 | raster | DocScrutinizer: if it was open - you'd hand that info on a platter WITH a license allowing them to make clones withotu repercussion |
| 06:17.13 | PaulFertser | And who cares? |
| 06:17.33 | PaulFertser | raster: open != copyleft |
| 06:17.42 | *** join/#openmoko vanous123 (~vanous@ip-85-93-173-178.wscnet.cz) |
| 06:17.43 | raster | PaulFertser: ip defintiely exists. and i find it offensive for you to state otherwise. |
| 06:17.53 | DocScrutinizer | nope, copyright on the PCB is no way different to copyright on schematics |
| 06:18.02 | raster | PaulFertser: if you dont think ip exists then gpl is bunk. ip with open licenses it moot ad ip doesnt existew. |
| 06:18.03 | PaulFertser | raster: where does it? Which law is that? |
| 06:18.08 | raster | its a free-for-all public domain |
| 06:18.45 | raster | PaulFertser: open == copyleft when you refer to it in the same breath as open source |
| 06:18.59 | raster | ie licenses that dont just give code - but allow modification and re-distribution legally. |
| 06:19.11 | DocScrutinizer | raster: you're spinning away |
| 06:19.17 | PaulFertser | raster: i know people usually use "ip" to talk about utterly different (legally) things: about copyrights, trademarks, software patents even. And that's all entirely different legislation. |
| 06:19.31 | raster | PaulFertser: ip == intellectual property |
| 06:19.38 | raster | ownership of something that is not tangible |
| 06:19.49 | raster | thats is the entire foundation of copyright |
| 06:19.54 | DocScrutinizer | yep |
| 06:19.57 | DocScrutinizer | exactly |
| 06:20.05 | DocScrutinizer | [2010-02-25 07:17:53] <DocScrutinizer> nope, copyright on the PCB is no way different to copyright on schematics |
| 06:20.16 | raster | and if u dont think ip exists - then you instantly undermined gpl, bsd, apl and everhy open source app and its license |
| 06:20.18 | PaulFertser | raster: are you sure that's written in some law? I really doubt that and i've seen some articles on the topic. |
| 06:20.28 | raster | it is |
| 06:20.30 | PaulFertser | raster: copyright does exist. |
| 06:20.31 | raster | it's called copyright |
| 06:20.32 | DocScrutinizer | nobody thinks IP doesn't exist |
| 06:20.40 | PaulFertser | raster: copyright != ip |
| 06:20.42 | raster | copyright ISà²à² |
| 06:20.48 | raster | err is IP |
| 06:21.07 | raster | DocScrutinizer: <PaulFertser> "ip" doesn't exist in fact and you know that. This term was constructed to lie about the life and the law. |
| 06:21.11 | PaulFertser | raster: copyright is a well-established legal term, with all laws and lawyers etc etc attached. IP is a buzzword. |
| 06:21.39 | DocScrutinizer | but chinese cloners won'T care of any copyright, no matter if it's printed on a schematics or a PCBA |
| 06:21.54 | raster | PaulFertser: ip is a more geenral term also covering other things like patents |
| 06:22.10 | raster | and dont tel me patents are not an established method of intellectual property ownership |
| 06:22.19 | DocScrutinizer | this discussion absolutely misses the point |
| 06:22.23 | raster | you look like a fool if you do. |
| 06:22.34 | raster | DocScrutinizer: yes. but you have at least a legal stick to go after them with |
| 06:22.35 | PaulFertser | raster: it has no legal meaning. The patent legislation is not the same as copyright law and iirc has little similarity legally-speaking. |
| 06:23.04 | DocScrutinizer | raster: same with (C)'d schematics |
| 06:23.36 | raster | DocScrutinizer: it doesnt change thew fact that the economics of software and hw are entirely different |
| 06:23.48 | raster | it doesnt chaneg the fact that opening up schematics makes it easier for cloners |
| 06:23.50 | raster | it does |
| 06:23.52 | DocScrutinizer | nobody claimed that |
| 06:23.54 | PaulFertser | raster: also i'm not sure copyright is technically "property" at all. |
| 06:24.02 | raster | and there is no BENEFIT to the companies |
| 06:24.06 | raster | yes |
| 06:24.20 | raster | yolu can say "hey me - i can read a chematic and find that you have hooked compnent a to component b badly" |
| 06:24.24 | raster | as above |
| 06:24.29 | raster | for every 1 person that can and wil ldo that |
| 06:24.37 | raster | there are 10000 software enigners who will do it with software |
| 06:24.37 | DocScrutinizer | raster: The effort to RE the PCBA is negligable for cloners |
| 06:24.51 | raster | there is an economic benefit in giving away soruce in return for that |
| 06:25.01 | raster | there is no benefit for hw as u just dont have the same scales |
| 06:25.07 | raster | and as i said in email |
| 06:25.16 | raster | softwre side is MUCH MORe friendly to open soruce already |
| 06:25.21 | raster | its a battle that is winnable |
| 06:25.41 | DocScrutinizer | [2010-02-25 07:14:36] <DocScrutinizer> for the schematics a honestly disagree. There's no other documentation about how to write drivers for, and exploit fully the hw |
| 06:25.44 | raster | tryng to fight for open hw is like trying to fight the sun from coming up each day |
| 06:25.48 | raster | pointless battle |
| 06:26.45 | DocScrutinizer | heh, I made the sun stop coming up for one day then :-D |
| 06:26.47 | PaulFertser | raster: how to hook up extensions then? |
| 06:27.23 | raster | the hw and software divisions run as separate groups |
| 06:27.30 | raster | withs eparate management and cultures |
| 06:27.41 | raster | and i can say that they dont give a rats arse about open |
| 06:27.47 | DocScrutinizer | PaulFertser: It's absolutely pointless to focus on extensions. See hostmode of N900 for a killer example |
| 06:27.48 | raster | it doesnt even register on the interest scale |
| 06:27.50 | PaulFertser | Also in fact schematics are usually widely available. I see no harm making CAD files availabl as well. |
| 06:27.59 | raster | the software side sees a benefit and is thus willing to give it a go |
| 06:28.06 | raster | fight the battles you can win. |
| 06:28.12 | raster | but.. feel free to fighting your hw battle |
| 06:28.17 | raster | you'll be fighting it for decades. |
| 06:28.28 | DocScrutinizer | raster: the software side can't succeed without schematics |
| 06:28.34 | raster | of course it can |
| 06:28.41 | raster | thats just wrong |
| 06:28.43 | PaulFertser | DocScrutinizer: i still think hostmode of n900 can work. It's just nobody from Nokia and TI want to help understand that fucking testmode register. |
| 06:28.57 | DocScrutinizer | raster: if ever you were to write a kernel driver, you'r change your mind |
| 06:29.15 | raster | DocScrutinizer: no one will be making you write the drivers from scratch |
| 06:29.26 | raster | u will get them already written for that hw |
| 06:29.30 | raster | so its moot |
| 06:29.31 | DocScrutinizer | so it's no FOSS system |
| 06:29.36 | DocScrutinizer | period |
| 06:29.38 | raster | neither is a pc |
| 06:29.44 | raster | has it mattered? |
| 06:29.51 | raster | <PROTECTED> |
| 06:30.00 | raster | your points have been proven wrong for decades in the pc world |
| 06:30.11 | DocScrutinizer | nonsense |
| 06:30.16 | raster | foss systems exist minus schematics or any cad designs |
| 06:30.20 | PaulFertser | Now kick me for spamming: |
| 06:30.21 | PaulFertser | Now kick me for spamming: Richard Stallman argues that, although the term intellectual property is in wide use, it should be |
| 06:30.24 | PaulFertser | rejected altogether, because it "systematically distorts and confuses these issues, and its use |
| 06:30.27 | PaulFertser | was and is promoted by those who gain from this confusion." He claims that the term "operates as a |
| 06:30.30 | PaulFertser | catch-all to lump together disparate laws [which] originated separately, evolved differently, |
| 06:30.34 | PaulFertser | cover different activities, have different rules, and raise different public policy issues."^[18] |
| 06:30.34 | raster | every laptop, desktop and server shipping wiht linux or having it installed on it |
| 06:30.36 | PaulFertser | Stallman advocates referring to copyrights, patents and trademarks in the singular and warns |
| 06:30.39 | PaulFertser | against abstracting disparate laws into a collective term. |
| 06:30.40 | raster | you can write drivers |
| 06:30.41 | raster | and make them work |
| 06:30.45 | raster | and everything else |
| 06:31.39 | DocScrutinizer | raster: uhuh |
| 06:31.54 | DocScrutinizer | you can RE windoof drivers |
| 06:32.03 | raster | you can Re wince drivers |
| 06:32.07 | raster | or android drivers.. |
| 06:32.09 | raster | he.ll u have the src |
| 06:32.22 | DocScrutinizer | for WAHT? |
| 06:32.34 | DocScrutinizer | the drivers? |
| 06:32.40 | raster | its moot if the device already COMES with linux and open drivers |
| 06:32.48 | raster | so pointless. |
| 06:32.54 | DocScrutinizer | yep, thats a valid point |
| 06:33.07 | raster | sure |
| 06:33.10 | raster | there may be bugs |
| 06:33.14 | raster | and some features are not leveraged |
| 06:33.17 | raster | it happens |
| 06:33.22 | raster | hap-pesn on closed drivers too |
| 06:33.23 | raster | in windows |
| 06:33.28 | raster | and anywhere else |
| 06:33.36 | raster | BUT |
| 06:33.44 | DocScrutinizer | who cares about windoze?? |
| 06:33.45 | raster | your freedoms have been preserved |
| 06:33.53 | raster | you are free to modify them - audit them and do what u like |
| 06:34.01 | raster | and the entry barrier is low to do that |
| 06:34.11 | raster | modifying hw - entry barrier is very high |
| 06:34.12 | PaulFertser | Without the datasheets it's not that enjoyable |
| 06:34.17 | raster | and it gets higher all the time |
| 06:34.40 | raster | PaulFertser: reality is on most of these devices u dont have datasheets |
| 06:34.43 | DocScrutinizer | so what? |
| 06:34.44 | raster | or very buggy incomplete ones |
| 06:34.51 | PaulFertser | raster: that's what i say |
| 06:34.52 | raster | you have hw put together on the fly |
| 06:34.52 | DocScrutinizer | I never said I want to mod hw |
| 06:35.05 | raster | and as an issue is fixed some kernel driver dev is sent a mail and told to fix something |
| 06:35.20 | raster | releasing schematics is extra overhead that will cost money and thus raise unit prices |
| 06:35.24 | raster | ok - so there is a cost |
| 06:35.31 | raster | what is the BENEFIT to releasing them? |
| 06:35.44 | raster | will the benefit balance the cost.. the answer i would say is a firm no |
| 06:35.53 | raster | and i can tell you that thats how the companies think |
| 06:36.03 | DocScrutinizer | <PROTECTED> |
| 06:36.12 | raster | you have no case to make until you can show convincingly that there is gerater benefit than cost |
| 06:36.32 | raster | and i'd say all the facts to this day squarely land in the camp of the hw makers beliefs that there is not |
| 06:36.42 | DocScrutinizer | cost is about, err... ZERO? |
| 06:36.44 | raster | DocScrutinizer: not signficantly enough to bother |
| 06:36.50 | raster | DocScrutinizer: its not. see above |
| 06:36.58 | raster | <raster> PaulFertser: reality is on most of these devices u dont have datasheets |
| 06:37.07 | raster | <raster> or very buggy incomplete ones |
| 06:37.11 | raster | ... |
| 06:37.20 | raster | someone needs to put them together |
| 06:37.22 | raster | maintain them |
| 06:37.28 | raster | make them presentable for the outside world |
| 06:37.47 | PaulFertser | raster: what does it mean? How the drivers were developed in the first place if there was no documentation? |
| 06:38.05 | PaulFertser | And if there was, what makes it hard to release it as is? |
| 06:38.09 | DocScrutinizer | raster: I humbly disagree. I got datasheets of almost every chip I was able to spot inside N900 |
| 06:38.16 | raster | PaulFertser: first 90% of it is soc documentation |
| 06:38.22 | raster | and even that has errors |
| 06:38.23 | PaulFertser | And? |
| 06:38.59 | raster | the soc docs are issues by the chip vendors |
| 06:38.59 | DocScrutinizer | ...and OM as well didn't publish a complete set of chip datasheets |
| 06:39.06 | raster | not the oem's |
| 06:39.11 | raster | so u'll need that the be public |
| 06:39.26 | *** part/#openmoko fradeve (~fradeve@host76-75-dynamic.6-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 06:39.43 | raster | as such thats an argument with another group - the same argument u make to imgtyec for open drivers etc. etc. |
| 06:40.23 | PaulFertser | I guess i shouldn't have asked, i still do not like and can not accept your reality :( |
| 06:40.42 | DocScrutinizer | finds the sudden switch from night-mode to morning-mode hasn't done good effect on his mood |
| 06:40.43 | raster | o know u dont like it |
| 06:40.47 | raster | but thats reality |
| 06:40.55 | raster | the sooner you accept reality and work WITH it |
| 06:41.00 | raster | the sooner you will get something done |
| 06:41.04 | raster | and u'll accomplish something |
| 06:41.16 | PaulFertser | Me? Accomplish? muhaha |
| 06:41.22 | raster | until then you are the mosquito on the elephants back. |
| 06:41.31 | DocScrutinizer | that's apologetic |
| 06:41.36 | raster | that hide is pretty damned thick |
| 06:41.37 | raster | :) |
| 06:43.40 | raster | right now there's a big battle on the software side |
| 06:43.57 | raster | there are tough bits to fight over there - the imgtec's of this world and their closed drivers |
| 06:44.17 | raster | the oem's have literally not even the choice to be open or closed there |
| 06:44.26 | DocScrutinizer | that's the event horizon of raster's world obviously :-) |
| 06:45.47 | raster | making all the core - kernel, core libs, drivers, middleware, toolkit etc. open is still a battle to fight - and it'll be years. |
| 06:46.05 | raster | companies are not going to jump in and open everything up at once |
| 06:46.12 | raster | they are going to dip a toe in and start bit by bit |
| 06:46.18 | DocScrutinizer | but if I'd be interested in the question "can N900 WOL from WiFi?" and maybe write an augmented driver for the friggin chip, I'd clearly be on the wet side without schematics |
| 06:46.22 | raster | hw will be the last thing - if at all that opens up |
| 06:46.39 | raster | WOL? |
| 06:46.43 | raster | ooh wake on lan |
| 06:46.49 | DocScrutinizer | Wake On LAn |
| 06:47.07 | DocScrutinizer | same for accels |
| 06:47.09 | raster | i wonder if wol is viable for wifi when a system is off |
| 06:47.12 | raster | eg wpa |
| 06:47.16 | raster | wep - maybe |
| 06:47.17 | DocScrutinizer | same for USB hostmode |
| 06:47.44 | DocScrutinizer | WOL is a lower layer than crypto |
| 06:47.55 | DocScrutinizer | it's a very simple IP packet |
| 06:51.07 | DocScrutinizer | for accel LIS302 which is same in N900 as is in FR, I have *no* idea if I can use the IRQ options of that chip to kick SoC out of 0clock, as I simply got no schematics to tell what the wiring is |
| 06:52.57 | DocScrutinizer | USB hostmode: Nokia decided we don't need drivers that could do that. Is it just because that's been a business decision while sw-devels were short on time, or had they actually left out the power supply making N900 like neo1973? |
| 06:53.28 | DocScrutinizer | I can't tell without either disassembling and REing the device, or get the fsckng schematics |
| 06:55.56 | DocScrutinizer | and again: cost for publishing the FR schematics was roundabout 4 mandays of me reviewing the schem, and checking some NDA issues |
| 06:56.32 | DocScrutinizer | how could the ammount of work be any higher for an arbitrary mobile of same complexity? |
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| 06:58.01 | DocScrutinizer | ther _is_ _no_ reasonable rationale *not* to disclose the schematics, except from "we never did that before" |
| 06:59.59 | DocScrutinizer | so please don't tell me why we don't need schem, and why we'll never achieve to get schem. And why OEMs can not do that. |
| 07:00.22 | DocScrutinizer | If you tell me "I simply don't care" that's fine for me |
| 07:03.25 | PaulFertser | DocScrutinizer++ |
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| 07:16.43 | DocScrutinizer | btw each cloner would be catious to use officially published schem (well, any schem) as the oricinal author might have introduced errors. A good EE could even introduce errors in such a way it would neither have any impact on repair service (which usually is a good source for schematics of "closed" hw), nor on the device driver devels' understanding of the hardware. A very good EE would introduce errors that bite the cloner after they |
| 07:16.44 | DocScrutinizer | manufactured and sold 10k devices ;-P |
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| 07:18.46 | DocScrutinizer | (and you don't know if *I* am a poor, good, or very good EE X-P ) |
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| 07:20.39 | DocScrutinizer | so if you were to clone FR, you'd RE the physical device anyway, no matter if the schem is published or not |
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| 07:48.19 | JaMa | hmm interesting discussion before morning coffee |
| 07:48.38 | DocScrutinizer | cofffeeeeee, my cup is empty |
| 07:48.49 | DocScrutinizer | and I was wondering wtf is wrong here |
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| 07:50.47 | JaMa | DocScrutinizer: if it's only empty cup, than you're lucky guy |
| 07:51.24 | DocScrutinizer | well to the other nasties around here I got used by now and easily spot them :-P |
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| 08:09.21 | raster | DocScrutinizer: u dont need schematics to know that... 0clock wouldnt work at all if the chip couldnt wake up the cpu |
| 08:09.31 | raster | sshing in via wifi wouldnt work... for sure |
| 08:09.32 | raster | but it does |
| 08:09.47 | raster | also a quick look at the driver code would tell you |
| 08:09.56 | raster | schematics wont help u with how mt kae the chip turn on wol etc. |
| 08:10.02 | raster | how to make |
| 08:10.56 | DocScrutinizer | raster: nope. For LIS302 you got a master at CPU and a slave at accel chip. The only way for the chip to wake SoC is via IRQ. Usual mode is poll though |
| 08:11.39 | DocScrutinizer | (WOL) I didn't say normal operation mode of N900 could use any WOL |
| 08:11.55 | raster | oh sorry |
| 08:11.57 | DocScrutinizer | it was the first and worst example that came to mind |
| 08:12.01 | raster | was thinking of wifi wol - not accel |
| 08:12.40 | DocScrutinizer | WiFi WOL was useful only if somebody had the weird idea to send the system to suspend |
| 08:12.56 | raster | as such if irq lines were hooked up from accel to soc - driver shoudl reflect that with ircq's being handled for the accelerometer |
| 08:12.58 | DocScrutinizer | which btw works on N810 |
| 08:13.02 | raster | as opposed to only having poll mode |
| 08:13.05 | raster | if done right |
| 08:13.28 | DocScrutinizer | that's the pont: if done right |
| 08:14.01 | raster | it should be |
| 08:14.34 | raster | open source makes sense for companies with shit engineers |
| 08:14.42 | raster | so they dont do things right and hope u fix it for them for free :) |
| 08:14.50 | DocScrutinizer | ack |
| 08:15.04 | raster | irf the company has top engineers that dot all the i's anxd cross all the t's |
| 08:15.08 | raster | the soruce will have everything u need |
| 08:15.10 | raster | either implemented |
| 08:15.16 | DocScrutinizer | but in the end that's the whole point of FOSS for a company |
| 08:15.23 | raster | or code being there and dsiabled for whatever production reasons needed it to be disabled |
| 08:15.27 | raster | and a comment as to why |
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| 08:33.56 | DocScrutinizer | raster: see all the whining and bitching about meego and Nokia alegedly abandoning maemo5 and the N900 users. Why is that? Simply because everybody is aware you can't build a *free* system just as there are no FOSS drivers for some parts. Making the drivers FOSS would not even change the situation radically, as you still have to rely on all of them being bugfree and comprehensive, or Nokia promising to fix any flaw or shortcoming up to and |
| 08:33.58 | DocScrutinizer | open end in the future |
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| 08:36.43 | DocScrutinizer | but the killer argument still is, was, and remains: publishing schematics is basically *free* for the company |
| 08:36.53 | DocScrutinizer | both in effort and risk |
| 08:37.04 | JaMa | chmm few kernel builds and Load average: 13.47 13.57 9.03 |
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| 08:38.59 | raster | DocScrutinizer: all the schematics in the world wot help u - without open drivers |
| 08:39.02 | raster | or middleware |
| 08:39.14 | raster | and iuts not free |
| 08:39.23 | raster | they need schems they can publish to start with |
| 08:39.36 | raster | that dont contain ip they dont own... |
| 08:39.39 | raster | like any software |
| 08:39.39 | DocScrutinizer | I'd think they *got* schem |
| 08:39.45 | raster | parts of the schems may not belong to them |
| 08:40.04 | DocScrutinizer | so that's what I checked in 4 days for OM schem |
| 08:40.37 | DocScrutinizer | what's FOUR mandays for a company like a mobile device OEM? |
| 08:41.45 | DocScrutinizer | I guess their webmaster will invest more time into making up a nice frontpage note out of the schem publishing |
| 08:43.34 | raster | no including management approvals, legal approval and vetting etc. etc. |
| 08:43.47 | DocScrutinizer | (open drivers and middleware) sorry I don't get the point there |
| 08:44.33 | DocScrutinizer | of course I can write my own driver, once I got the schem |
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| 08:44.47 | DocScrutinizer | and middleware... err, hum?? |
| 08:46.28 | raster | DocScrutinizer: no chance of writign a driver from a shem |
| 08:46.30 | raster | zero |
| 08:46.32 | raster | schem |
| 08:46.40 | raster | u have no idew what memory ranges are mapped to what |
| 08:46.42 | DocScrutinizer | uhuh |
| 08:46.46 | raster | what each memory range is and what registers they are |
| 08:46.48 | raster | tyhe bits in the register |
| 08:46.50 | raster | what they mean |
| 08:46.53 | raster | behavior etc. etc. |
| 08:46.55 | raster | zero |
| 08:46.58 | raster | thats not schematic |
| 08:47.07 | raster | thats chipset docs |
| 08:47.08 | DocScrutinizer | I got the datasheets for that shit |
| 08:47.11 | raster | yes |
| 08:47.13 | raster | thats not schem |
| 08:47.42 | DocScrutinizer | [2010-02-25 07:38:08] <DocScrutinizer> raster: I humbly disagree. I got datasheets of almost every chip I was able to spot inside N900 |
| 08:47.44 | raster | right now u donteven have the chip docs (datasheets) for a lot of things |
| 08:47.47 | raster | schem wont help u |
| 08:48.24 | raster | well then - u should have no problems |
| 08:48.42 | raster | you can happily make an open source battery charging logic driver then :) |
| 08:48.55 | DocScrutinizer | I have *one* problem: missing schematics |
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| 08:52.06 | DocScrutinizer | raster: this type of backward conclusion won't work on me: "you're missing xy of party Z (which I actually don't), so why do you think you'll get yz from OEM" |
| 08:52.43 | raster | i'd say the problem isnt missing schematics. as a quick probe of memory and whats mapped where will tell you whats going on. |
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| 08:53.19 | raster | but in the end if the driver was open - the whole thing would be moot. |
| 08:53.22 | DocScrutinizer | it's not sufficient, you should know that |
| 08:53.35 | raster | nokia dont want an open driver - so they're not going tohelp you out. |
| 08:53.45 | raster | it is sufficient |
| 08:53.55 | raster | i spent years writign driver-level code for my amiga |
| 08:53.56 | DocScrutinizer | that's a totally different argument |
| 08:54.00 | raster | i never once read a schematic |
| 08:54.07 | raster | they had them at the back of the manual that came with it |
| 08:54.15 | raster | nevr once used them |
| 08:54.27 | raster | why? the "datasheets" were complete and good enough |
| 08:54.59 | DocScrutinizer | nah, I realize we agree to disagree here |
| 08:55.07 | raster | and u didnt ahave drivers unless u worked at the very highest levesl (workbench land) if u did games u dropped right down to swizzling the fdd controller, blitter, audio chipset etc. etc. yourself |
| 08:55.24 | raster | didnt need a schem - i had register mappings and docs on what they did |
| 08:57.42 | DocScrutinizer | when I wrote the driver for the RF-RTC to hok up to mouseport-2, without messing with the standard functions so each usual joystick still would work, you bet I used the schematics to check I didn't fry anything |
| 08:58.17 | raster | frying is fun! |
| 08:58.18 | raster | :) |
| 08:59.17 | DocScrutinizer | on my A1000 yes, as it had decent protection for VDD on joystick ports. If you got a A500 though, you'll probably want to think twice |
| 09:00.59 | DocScrutinizer | nayway. This leads to nowhere. Gonna get me a breakfast at a very unusual time - in the morning. :-P cya |
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| 09:42.24 | Weiss | thinks it'd be nice if all driver-writing consisted of MMIO poking |
| 09:42.53 | Weiss | and if all hardware registers were read/write and gave sensible values on read |
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| 10:03.09 | PaulFertser | Russian news: "a non-sober passer-by helped a drunk driver to beat up a road policeman" :-/ |
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| 10:09.54 | Kamping_Kaiser | :/ |
| 10:10.22 | tomcatek | HEHE |
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| 10:17.23 | PaulFertser | In fact we rarely trust our policemen, too many criminals and assholes among them. |
| 10:18.40 | Weiss | remembers watching a tourism TV programme about somewhere in Russia. they mentioned how, if you're caught without ID, it might cost you a hefty *bribe* (not fine..) |
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| 10:20.30 | PaulFertser | Weiss: sure, for minor offences it's more common to pay a bribe and not fine. |
| 10:21.36 | Weiss | the bribe is usually less? |
| 10:22.15 | Weiss | how do you know that they're not going to haul you up for bribing the police, and ask for an even bigger fine (or even a bigger bribe..) |
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| 10:25.30 | Weiss | (although, I suppose, how do you know that in the UK the police officer isn't just going to beat you up :S) |
| 10:26.09 | PaulFertser | Weiss: the bribe is less and faster, yes. And punishment for bribing is really rare anyway... |
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| 10:36.04 | DocScrutinizer | anyway I heard they gave a decent sentence to that policeman shooting several people in a moskow shopping mall |
| 10:36.21 | DocScrutinizer | which seemed to amaze everyone |
| 10:37.03 | DocScrutinizer | as usually police are not under legislation for whatever they do |
| 10:37.21 | Weiss | Bruce Schneier has a few things to say about that |
| 10:37.48 | Weiss | the countries where police powers are most regulated are often the safest |
| 10:38.02 | PaulFertser | DocScrutinizer: yeah, life inprisonment sounded like something surprisignly fair. |
| 10:38.59 | DocScrutinizer | and screwed all the police, as they need to rethink their notion of their job |
| 10:39.42 | DocScrutinizer | "duh, no more protection / unconditional support from court?" |
| 10:41.23 | DocScrutinizer | you bett all policemen will elect putin next time |
| 10:42.17 | DocScrutinizer | if that's a direct vote at all |
| 10:44.13 | PaulFertser | Voting doesn't matter without freedom of mass media. And even with it often sucks. Recent ukrain elections fully confirmed that :( |
| 10:44.43 | DocScrutinizer | yep :-/ |
| 10:45.20 | DocScrutinizer | tends to think elections never really matter |
| 10:46.23 | DocScrutinizer | some wise man said "if elections could change anything, they'd be forbidden" |
| 10:56.26 | PaulFertser | often attributed to Emma Goldman (google says) |
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| 10:57.27 | PaulFertser | A famous anarchist |
| 11:00.08 | PaulFertser | It looks she wasn't firmly against violence (judging by wp article). |
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| 11:22.25 | naught101 | DocScrutinizer: of course they matter. They keep the population thinking that they're in control.. |
| 11:23.20 | naught101 | PaulFertser: not many people were into non-violence back then.. |
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| 12:38.10 | sicu | anyone know what to do if the FR is not showing up in ifconfig -a when connected? |
| 12:38.41 | SpeedEvil | does it show up in lsusb? |
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| 12:40.32 | sicu | that only shows 2.0 and 1.1 root hub |
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| 12:41.18 | SpeedEvil | I mean on the host side. |
| 12:41.57 | sicu | running ubuntu 9.10 x64 in virtualbox from win7, so that's probably causing some issues |
| 12:42.49 | sicu | forced to use win7 due to work, and wanted to set up linux in virtualbox so i can fiddle with the FR without having to reboot |
| 12:43.05 | tomcatek | sicu: do You have any cdc ether in dmesg? |
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| 12:47.16 | sicu | tomcatek: nope |
| 12:47.53 | tomcatek | do You hace cdc ether module at all? |
| 12:48.07 | tomcatek | s/hace/have |
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| 12:55.15 | sicu | tomcatek: lsmod tells me no |
| 12:56.06 | sicu | <- linux nublet, so bear with me |
| 12:56.47 | sicu | how do i go about getting this if it's needed? |
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| 13:07.18 | DocScrutinizer | virtualbox and access to usb hw := beeging for trouble |
| 13:07.42 | PaulFertser | sicu: you need to see a usb1.1 device in your lsusb |
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| 13:09.34 | DocScrutinizer | set up virtualbox to give direct access to host's USB (however that's done) |
| 13:11.09 | sicu | guess i was asking for trouble then ;p |
| 13:11.53 | sicu | DocScrutinizer, PaulFertser, tomcatek: thanks for the input |
| 13:12.35 | tomcatek | sicu: better would be to run Ubuntu, and then run Windows inside (qemu eg.) ;) |
| 13:12.46 | DocScrutinizer | lol |
| 13:13.13 | DocScrutinizer | http://xkcd.com/424/ |
| 13:13.42 | DocScrutinizer | seems that's a bit redundant :-P |
| 13:14.02 | PaulFertser | sicu: are you sure FR doesn't work with windows? |
| 13:14.42 | DocScrutinizer | yeah, the question is: what do you want to do? |
| 13:15.09 | DocScrutinizer | ssh and networking should work with windows as well |
| 13:15.27 | DocScrutinizer | aiui |
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| 13:19.09 | sicu | initially i just wanted quick access to the FR from within windows, but also being able to flash, and eventually som image building and dev |
| 13:20.54 | sicu | tomcatek: i use programs from adobe and autodesk on a daily basis, so running win within linux would reduce performance that is quite dire in heavy duty programs :/ |
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| 13:24.29 | DocScrutinizer | sicu: flashing new distro to uSD -> windows. quick access to FR -> putty (windows), img building & dev: virtualbox, or probably want to use a native linux for performance reasons |
| 13:27.08 | sicu | DocScrutinizer: thanks, i've got linux dualbooting from a seperate partition, so guess i'll just keep doing it that way |
| 13:28.24 | sicu | never tried virtualbox before, so was an interesting passtime, as opposed to doing the actual work i'm paid to do ;p |
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| 13:30.16 | DocScrutinizer | :-) |
| 13:30.56 | DocScrutinizer | I tried virtualbox under linux, to run the winxp I got with this laptop. Alas it didn't really pan out |
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| 13:31.43 | mwester | PaulFertser: re: voting and mass media -- you have spoken the truth, indeed -- also witness the recent election in the USA. |
| 13:31.49 | DocScrutinizer | files were readonly, .exe weren't startable... I gave up on it |
| 13:31.50 | mwester | gets a cup of coffee |
| 13:32.31 | DocScrutinizer | recent election? |
| 13:33.45 | mwester | well, yes - 1.5 years ago - recent is relative I guess ;) |
| 13:33.59 | pbaxter | hi all |
| 13:36.15 | PaulFertser | mwester: well... TBH i couldn't understand _anybody_ voting for republicans _ever_. That doesn't make democrats any good though, unfortunately. |
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| 13:36.43 | vanous123 | DocScrutinizer: you really need to have support in the CPU and make sure it is enabled in bios, then is runs like a dear |
| 13:37.49 | mwester | True. The problem with a two-party system is that you really only have a single-party system that way: The party in power, and then there's everyone else. Democracy only works when you do not have to compromise your principles completely, because there are no viable parties to which you can give your vote. :( |
| 13:38.22 | SpeedEvil | But democracy in many ways fails. |
| 13:38.42 | DocScrutinizer | don't think with 5 parties it's any better |
| 13:38.44 | mwester | And it is often the media that decides which is a viable party or not. Much like the media often decides which *products* are viable, in defiance of engineering or science... |
| 13:39.30 | DocScrutinizer | VHS - hrhrrhrrrrrhrrrrrrrrchrrrchrrrrrr |
| 13:39.42 | mwester | hehe - exactly the example I was thinking. |
| 13:40.01 | alabd | hello , is there any pdf learning programming on phone for linux / j2me |
| 13:40.21 | DocScrutinizer | ho alabd |
| 13:40.24 | mwester | Consider open-source as well; some of the media is promoting the idea that it is of "lower quality" and to be "avoided" and crap like that. |
| 13:41.52 | DocScrutinizer | duh, not here in Germany at least |
| 13:42.11 | DocScrutinizer | except when media is controlled by M$ |
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| 13:53.39 | sicu | wohoo: http://pastebin.ca/1809612 |
| 13:53.58 | sicu | had to delve a little deeper into virtualbox settings |
| 13:54.07 | sicu | DocScrutinizer: thanks for the advice |
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| 13:57.40 | DocScrutinizer | yw |
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| 15:10.45 | PaulFertser | sicu: yeah, congrats :) |
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| 16:05.02 | sicu | PaulFertser: thanks ... this is actually quite neat |
| 16:05.41 | sicu | running linux and windows progs seamlessly together |
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| 16:06.28 | sicu | though i would ofc prefer to eliminate the need for windows altogether, but alas then i would be without a job ;p |
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| 16:24.51 | DocScrutinizer | sicu: i know that :-/ |
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| 17:08.44 | gena2x | hi, guys, just short question. i'm going to trip. is shr-unstable ok to flash? :) |
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| 17:14.19 | gena2x | noone using latest shr? is it critical-bug free? |
| 17:14.31 | gena2x | i want calls and intone |
| 17:15.09 | tomcatek | gena2x: if Your's working and You have to relay on it - don't touch it :] |
| 17:15.37 | gena2x | :) i have non-calling debian setup now. |
| 17:16.11 | gena2x | want stable distro to forget about problems as i going to be without net for 2 weeks and my train off in 3 hours |
| 17:16.21 | tomcatek | don't know how's today, but yesterday upgrade is working well |
| 17:16.45 | tomcatek | gena2x: shr-testing should be Your choice |
| 17:17.18 | gena2x | I'm too geeky can't use testing software... |
| 17:17.26 | gena2x | thanks, have nice day :) |
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| 20:08.27 | radekp | DocScrutinizer: hi, i am reading https://docs.openmoko.org/trac/ticket/2274 , trying to understand it. Does it mean that we need to sleep some after we power on LCD? |
| 20:09.23 | radekp | DocScrutinizer: it seems like quite easy fix that could improve the kernel a lot |
| 20:10.22 | SpeedEvil | eems like |
| 20:10.30 | Weiss | this is cool: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/magazine/8517057.stm |
| 20:10.37 | Weiss | (OpenStreetMap used in Haiti) |
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| 20:11.55 | SpeedEvil | helped a bit. |
| 20:12.00 | Weiss | cool :D |
| 20:12.03 | SpeedEvil | Would have like to have done more, but crappy DSL |
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| 20:15.52 | DocScrutinizer | radekp: yes, exactly |
| 20:16.33 | radekp | DocScrutinizer: do you know the right place for the sleep? |
| 20:18.11 | DocScrutinizer | nope, I don't even know if a usleep() is the correct way to do that. Anyway I'd urgently recommend for productive kernels to enable other useful startup tasks during the usleep or whatever, so the system doesn't stupidly idle for 100ms |
| 20:18.37 | DocScrutinizer | (might that be related to PREEMPT?) |
| 20:19.04 | Weiss | usleep() should allow that (in the way udelay() doesn't) |
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| 20:19.52 | SpeedEvil | user doesn't care about 100ms delay |
| 20:19.53 | Weiss | radekp: I noticed while playing last night that there's no pause (in 2.6.32) between powering up the LCM and sending it commands .. I guess you noticed that too? |
| 20:20.19 | Weiss | loads of drivers to this kind of delay though.. that's pretty much *why* booting takes time.. |
| 20:20.42 | radekp | Weiss: no i havent - i just read it from the ticked :) |
| 20:21.02 | Weiss | and the fencing stuff in DRM demonstrates that a lot less than 100ms, used productively, can make a huge difference to responsiveness.. |
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| 20:22.13 | SpeedEvil | and yes, I agree that doing it right is good. |
| 20:22.30 | SpeedEvil | But fixing a critical issue in a not beautiful way... |
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| 20:23.54 | DocScrutinizer | btw, guys. Same holds true for *all* switched peripherals: switch on LDO regulator, *WAIT*, init peripheral subsystem, wait again for internal init to finish (datasheet should tell), *then* start talking to device |
| 20:24.10 | DocScrutinizer | BT, wlan, accels come to mind |
| 20:24.24 | DocScrutinizer | gps |
| 20:28.10 | Weiss | has a simplified version of the JBT driver right now, which uses the LDO only and no JBT native sleep modes |
| 20:28.20 | Weiss | doesn't work yet, though :( |
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| 20:33.08 | DocScrutinizer | very good, we do not(!!) want this powerswitch for the poor (lcm sleepmode) |
| 20:33.38 | DocScrutinizer | we just switch on, and off completely |
| 20:34.06 | DocScrutinizer | resume from lcm sleep is a mess anyway |
| 20:34.19 | radekp | so now is LDO6 (is that the one that powers of LCM) always on? |
| 20:35.05 | Weiss | it got switched off in suspend, but the native sleep states were also used |
| 20:35.13 | DocScrutinizer | andy said he had inplemented it around 15 months ago (LDO switching) |
| 20:35.49 | Weiss | there's an explicit switch-off, and also the LCM (and many other devices) are children of the PMU device in the device structure |
| 20:35.59 | DocScrutinizer | but later on arhuaco(?) reordered all the power stuff. Dunno what crept in during that process |
| 20:36.25 | DocScrutinizer | yep, that's been that children thing |
| 20:38.09 | DocScrutinizer | Weiss: (sleepmode also) outright nonsense. Why suspend LCM a few ms before cutting power? |
| 20:38.30 | Weiss | indeed |
| 20:39.06 | DocScrutinizer | Weiss: and trying to resume before power up again must fail, and trying to resume a freshly powred up LCM might well show unexpected results |
| 20:39.50 | Weiss | you think it's best to also do normal blanking in this way? |
| 20:39.52 | DocScrutinizer | sleepmode is the powerswitch for the poor. We got REAL powerswitch |
| 20:40.02 | DocScrutinizer | yes |
| 20:40.57 | DocScrutinizer | ther's exactly two modes for LCM: up and 100% functional, or totally off. No need or clear definition for any in-between states |
| 20:41.38 | DocScrutinizer | (backlight to 0 is 100% up for the whole video logic) |
| 20:42.01 | DocScrutinizer | (...as somebody might want to use that mode) |
| 20:42.25 | Weiss | what would that be used for? |
| 20:42.43 | DocScrutinizer | transflexive mode? |
| 20:42.49 | SpeedEvil | in some displays the mode with no backlight is usable transflexively |
| 20:42.56 | SpeedEvil | you can see it in the sun at some angles |
| 20:44.03 | DocScrutinizer | obviously the other way round (backlight on but video lcm powered down) is a meaningless bogus state |
| 20:44.25 | SpeedEvil | torch |
| 20:44.30 | DocScrutinizer | nope |
| 20:44.37 | DocScrutinizer | not worth it |
| 20:45.04 | DocScrutinizer | the savings will be << % |
| 20:45.14 | SpeedEvil | true |
| 20:46.22 | DocScrutinizer | maybe nightlight at 3% bl. might survive a whole average night |
| 20:46.47 | Weiss | hmm ok |
| 20:47.22 | DocScrutinizer | anyway I don't care. I'd simply handle backlight and video completely independantly |
| 20:47.24 | SpeedEvil | needs to do a patch for that other system to pull apart the video4linux and the flashlight. |
| 20:47.35 | SpeedEvil | yeah |
| 20:47.49 | DocScrutinizer | YES!!! |
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| 20:49.33 | DocScrutinizer | pop up a menu on camslider open: "flashlight brightness slider" (flashlight starts immediately on slider open), "start video", "start stillcam" |
| 20:50.41 | SpeedEvil | not quite |
| 20:50.54 | SpeedEvil | add a couple of clear inserts for leds |
| 20:51.03 | SpeedEvil | cam buttone pressed - on goes light |
| 20:51.07 | SpeedEvil | if shutter shut |
| 20:51.10 | DocScrutinizer | maybe hw-buuton shortcuts: rocker = flashlight brightness, long cam prepress starts video, short full press starts still cam |
| 20:51.43 | DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: hard to build a .deb for that :-P |
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| 20:52.31 | SpeedEvil | 'click when envelope arrives in the post with modified back' |
| 20:52.45 | Weiss | just to check I understand properly... the PMU LED output is 100% separate from anything that could break LCM/Glamo? |
| 20:52.58 | Weiss | (LED as in backlight) |
| 20:53.45 | SpeedEvil | It's not connected at all as I recall the datasheet |
| 20:53.48 | SpeedEvil | err |
| 20:53.50 | SpeedEvil | sxhematic |
| 20:53.58 | DocScrutinizer | Weiss: exactly |
| 20:54.01 | SpeedEvil | just to the LED |
| 20:54.08 | Weiss | that's what I figured |
| 20:54.32 | Weiss | one of the resellers should offer A0/A1 copies of the schematics.. reading them (even on a big screen) is quite painful |
| 20:54.32 | DocScrutinizer | whatever handles suspend / screen dimming should take care of that - MHO |
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| 20:55.48 | DocScrutinizer | aah, you meant hw POV. Yes absolutely independant |
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| 21:35.44 | radekp | hmm it looks like i have last 2 problems with 2.6.32 kernel |
| 21:36.18 | radekp | wake on alarm does not work, i guess the irq is not hooked up? |
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| 21:37.52 | radekp | and the touchscreen behaves quite strange under X - it sometime generates stray click a few centimetres away from my click |
| 21:38.10 | radekp | strange is that in Qtopia the touchscreen is ok |
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