IRC log for #openmoko on 20100115

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02:54.52naquanHi everyone. Is it ok to mount /mnt/debian to an ext3 partition and run Debian install.sh script ignoring all the partitioning stages? did anyone try to install debian on ext3 partion yet?
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03:16.21naquanno one? :( i guess i must try it myseft.
03:17.10DocScrutinizerFZguess U should ask T+8h
03:18.16DocScrutinizerFZeven +12
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03:23.15naquanDocScrutinizerFZ, what's "T+8h"?
03:24.16DocScrutinizerFZroundabout 11:30 UTC aka GMT
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03:36.14naquanI got "xserver-xorg-core: Conflicts: xserver-xorg-input-4" message and the installer won't continue, it's on fso stage. :(
03:36.42naquanis there some thing wrong with the repositories?
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07:36.36*** topic/#openmoko is Users of Openmoko Mobile Phone Hardware | WikiReader users, please join #openmoko-wikireader | Developers, please join #openmoko-cdevel | New Users read http://wiki.openmoko.org + http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html | Make sure to check http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Om_2009 | SHR images: http://build.shr-project.org/shr-testing/images/om-gta02/ | hackable:1 rev5 is out !
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11:09.29Psihey, whats the biggest nokia battery i can stick in a gta01?
11:09.34Psibl-6c ?
11:11.02PaulFertserPsi: yes
11:11.12PaulFertserPsi: but charging is complicated :(
11:11.16Psiah
11:11.17PaulFertserPsi: need more details?
11:11.26Psiok, is there any nokia battery that it will charge fine?
11:11.34PaulFertserPsi: well it depends
11:12.56PaulFertserPsi: the problem is thermo-sensor used. Some stupid blindly copied an example from the pcf50606 datasheet to have 10k as a reference. So the battery thermistor should be 10k in the middle point. There're several ways to workaround this.
11:14.34PaulFertserPsi: one option would be to solder some 12k in parallel to the ID pin somewhere near the battery terminals on the device itself. Changing the thermistor inside battery is more complicated, i tried disassmbling it once, it's uncool.
11:14.44Psihm..
11:15.00Psido you happen to know what voltage gta01 will stop working at?
11:15.08Psibattery voltage
11:15.44PaulFertserPsi: the other option would be to tweak one pcf50606 register and it'll allow you to charge any battery without hardware mods with 200mA maximum, but that current is also going to run the system, so you do not have much left. If you suspend to ram it'd be more, so probably that's an option.
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11:16.17Psijust wondering if i should slap 3x AA's on the back of the phone
11:16.17PaulFertserPsi: the third way is to boot the device, connect it to USB and then "poweroff". This allows full 500mA charging for the reasons unknown.
11:17.03PaulFertserPsi: battery voltage shouldn't exceed 5V but as soon as it's more than 3V you should be ok. The lower limit is mandated by Calypso and i do not remember it exactly.
11:17.56Psiok, that sounds like a plan then
11:18.12PaulFertserPsi: i think i'd go with option 1. BTW, it would be nice to change the reference R on gta01 to match nokia's batteries but it's under that can that is soldered :(
11:18.50PaulFertserPsi: we never controlled battery temperature on gta02 and nothing bad happened.
11:21.09Psiim thinking i will make a backpack that holds 3x 2500mAh AA's
11:33.29Psiso why do you say 12k in parallel?
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11:41.37PaulFertserPsi: well, nokia battery has ~70k, connected in parallel with 12k it would be withing limits.
11:42.25Psi12k in parallel is 6k
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11:43.06PaulFertserPsi: the battery has ~70k
11:43.18PaulFertserPsi: the idea is to connect 12k in parallel to the battery id pin.
11:43.47Psiah, ok, i mean for using AA's
11:43.59Psito fool the neo into thinking it has a temp sensor and its within limit
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11:44.50PaulFertserPsi: then 10k will exactly suit.
11:45.00Psiis it to + or - ?  
11:45.19PsiNTC/PTC
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12:17.52SpeedEvilA fixed resistor of 12K
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12:24.11*** topic/#openmoko is Users of Openmoko Mobile Phone Hardware | WikiReader users, please join #openmoko-wikireader | Developers, please join #openmoko-cdevel | New Users read http://wiki.openmoko.org + http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html | Make sure to check http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Om_2009 | SHR images: http://build.shr-project.org/shr-testing/images/om-gta02/ | hackable:1 rev5 is out !
12:24.11SpeedEvilwell - that way is a bit complex as you don't know what teh multimeter wuill do when voltage is applied to it
12:24.31SpeedEvilyou also have the battery in there - which one way round is in series
12:25.08Psiyeah, but only one side of the resistor is connected to the battery
12:25.14Psiso it shouldnt effect the meter
12:26.00SpeedEvilIf you connect it one way - you get a true reading. If you connect it the other, you are measuring it with teh battery in series
12:26.12Psiyep
12:26.12SpeedEvilwhich will not give an accurate reading on any multimeter
12:26.31Psiyou're right, wasnt thinking
12:26.40Psigetting abit late here, 1:26am
12:27.16SpeedEvilI'm contemplating getting out of bed here.
12:27.27SpeedEvilJust past noon.
12:27.38SpeedEvilAnd a balmy 4.8C inside.
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12:40.40PaulFertserPsi: to GND
12:40.47Psithanks
12:41.01PaulFertserPsi: if you hilighted me i'd have answered faster :)
12:41.33Psiis that the sensor is to ground or the added resistor should be to ground
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12:42.09SpeedEvilIf you're creating a new battery - the resistor is in place of the sensor. to ground.
12:42.12PaulFertserPsi: the thermistor inside the battery is ID<->thermistor<->GND. So you connect a fixed R in parallel, i.e. between ID and GND terminals.
12:42.18SpeedEvilIt's to fake that there is a sensor tehre, and it's in range.
12:42.26SpeedEvilOItherwise you need a proper thermistor
12:42.34PaulFertserSpeedEvil: i'm suggesting to shunt nokia's battery thermistor with something that will make gta01 think the temperature's in range.
12:42.54Psiahh
12:43.04Psireally need to sleep
12:43.05Psimind isnt working
12:43.15SpeedEvilyes - that's what I was trying to explain.
12:44.00Wonkammh... isn't there some communication between battery and FR too?
12:44.08Wonkais that over the ID pin or where?
12:44.35PaulFertserWonka: on FR yes
12:48.18PsiWonka: gta01 doesnt have a smart battery like gta02
12:49.40Wonkaah
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12:52.33KenYoungDoes anyone know if http://projects.openmoko.org/ is down forever?
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13:19.13pbaxterhi all
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17:27.41groszekis there some kind of phone/sms indicator that I could put on top bar of illume (shr) ?
17:27.48groszekunread/missed calls, that is
17:28.09groszekthere is an indicator on screenlock which is so annoying it's the first thing to remove
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17:34.31Serdar1hi guys
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18:03.47badcloud_hey all
18:04.11badcloud_is there a command line mail client for shr/openmoko?
18:04.36badcloud_claws is cluttered to say the least
18:04.45groszekmutt? :]
18:05.05badcloud_hmmm, didn't seem to be in opkg's list
18:05.09badcloud_do you have a link?
18:06.19groszekwell no, but it shouldn't be hard to compile
18:06.49badcloud_I can't get my assembler to work on the fr
18:06.54badcloud_ยค%&/
18:07.08groszekI'd compile it on normal computer, you know :)
18:07.47badcloud_I think I might do that
18:15.16badcloud_how tricky is that for someone who has never cross-compiled before?
18:16.36groszeknot really, just installing precompiled toolchain and you're set
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18:19.51Weisspossibly some faff with libraries
18:20.00Weisschecks his mail on the FR with Mutt+SSH
18:20.15spoodelCan anyone recommend a keyboard that I can use with my neo?  I am guessing it would be Bluetooth.  But can I plug in a wired keyboard?  If so I will need some sort of unusual USB connector...
18:21.33groszekjust usb hub connected to microsd port, and any keyboard. however it would look hilarious if you'd get normal keyboard in a bus or whatever, to type sms ;-)
18:22.34badcloud_Weiss, faff?
18:23.36badcloud_nm, gotta go
18:23.45badcloud_thanks for all the fish/info
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18:27.00spoodelDoes anyone know of a mini USB male to male cable for sale?  Or would I have to solder one up?
18:27.46spoodelI'm just asking because I would like to do some development work on this device, and it takes about 10 minutes to do a single bash command using the on-screen keyboard
18:28.42spoodel<PROTECTED>
18:30.17PaulFertserspoodel: usb networking should work out-of-the box with any sane distro on freerunner.
18:33.42spoodelPaulFertser: I know that this always leads to arguments, but could you recommend a distro, so that I can get it running in virtual box in xp, and do development work this way?
18:34.32groszekgentoo is fastest to install and play
18:34.38groszekand easiest to manage those tools
18:34.53groszekthere is probably ebuild for FR toolchain :)
18:34.53PaulFertserspoodel: distro for a desktop PC?
18:35.27spoodelI am using a netbook - eeepc 901 xp
18:35.38PaulFertserspoodel: if you're going to develop with OE it doesn't matter much which GNU/Linux distro you use.
18:35.59DocScrutinizer51yawns violently
18:36.15DocScrutinizer51(no comment though ;)
18:36.17PaulFertserI do not think using "om toolchain" is any fun, too many problems with getting dependencies while OE does that for you automatically. Another option is to go pure debian way: qemubuilder
18:36.23PaulFertserDocScrutinizer51: hey :)
18:36.25brian_i will turn the burner on  ---U need Slackware
18:36.43PaulFertserDocScrutinizer51: is it getting any better in DE weather-wise? Here it's damn warm, > -10C.
18:37.24DocScrutinizer51here even sorta snow melting away - yesterday
18:37.24PaulFertserspoodel: btw, if you going to use Python, you do not need anything at all, you can easily develop and test on both FR and your PC without compilation.
18:38.45spoodelare there are any devs close to London in the channel?  I would be very happy to pay someone to tutor me.
18:39.35DocScrutinizer51andy is :-P
18:40.12DocScrutinizer51I doubt he has the time or is even willing to do that though
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18:41.37spoodelI know that you wonderful people are dispensing gems for free online, but I'm not fluent around Linux, and together with RSI I'm not sure if I am ever going to break the surface on my own
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18:44.46PBeckhi
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18:49.00PaulFertserwished he was near London :(((
18:50.00PaulFertserspoodel: i've read somewhere that using Dvorak layout makes RSI somewhat less of an issue.
18:50.49spoodelI wonder if anyone has ever contemplated this as a feature for fr: when you connect via USB the computer sees a thumb drive.  So you could put some programs on the thumb drive that let you tap into it from pretty much any computer.  
18:51.24PaulFertserspoodel: there's a possibility to do that, the resulting "usb mass storage device" is quite slow (usb1.1) but works ok.
18:51.57PaulFertserspoodel: rmmod g_ether; modprobe g_file_storage file=/root/slax.image stall=0
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18:54.29mmontourspoodel: I do that - I run images from the uSD card, and have a small rootfs in NAND that exports the uSD card as a mass-storage device. It means I never have to physically take the card out of the FR.
18:55.02spoodel!! coooooool
18:55.33spoodelgtg
18:55.38spoodelthxall :)
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23:34.31cosmos__SpeedEvil: the FR catch radio bands?
23:34.31cosmos__SppedEvil: I mean AM and FM?
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