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| 11:20.14 | alabd | Hello , Is there anyway to make fr not using battery power while usb is connected ? |
| 11:20.59 | SpeedEvil | It won't use battery power if there is adequate USB power available. |
| 11:22.08 | alabd | SpeedEvil: hi how are you even when gsm is on ? |
| 11:22.36 | lindi- | alabd: GSM will always use battery. |
| 11:22.50 | lindi- | alabd: turn GSM off if you do not want to use battery |
| 11:24.24 | alabd | lindi-: So howto make fr not using battery while gsm is on ? |
| 11:25.50 | lindi- | alabd: impossible |
| 11:28.28 | SpeedEvil | The GSM is directly connected to the battery. |
| 11:28.52 | SpeedEvil | The battery will usually be charged to maintain its charge level. |
| 11:33.12 | DocScrutinizer51 | yep, exactly |
| 11:33.33 | DocScrutinizer51 | see wiki 'battery faq' (or similar topic) |
| 11:35.12 | DocScrutinizer51 | alabd: if you want to operate FR without battery you need a stabilized hard power supply of 4.0V@3A and connect that to the battery terminals |
| 11:35.50 | SpeedEvil | 3.3V would be below minimum I assume? |
| 11:35.56 | DocScrutinizer51 | or make that 1A and a huuuge buffer C |
| 11:36.19 | DocScrutinizer51 | gms low is 3.6 iirc |
| 11:36.58 | DocScrutinizer51 | so would work for system but probably not for modem |
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| 11:39.29 | lindi- | DocScrutinizer51: I only yesterday learned that one can keep battery charge at 50% even when system is connected via USB :) |
| 11:40.14 | DocScrutinizer51 | huh? |
| 11:40.30 | alabd | while usb is connected to fr and gsm is on if we turn gsm off will it Automatically ? |
| 11:40.54 | DocScrutinizer51 | sure you could, by manually enabling and stopping the MBC |
| 11:41.06 | lindi- | DocScrutinizer51: but i did not know the commands to do that |
| 11:41.16 | alabd | lindi-: "om usb charger-mode [charge-battery|power-usb]" |
| 11:41.23 | alabd | ? |
| 11:41.26 | lindi- | alabd: automatically what? |
| 11:41.34 | DocScrutinizer51 | lindi-: it's absoöute nonsense anyway |
| 11:42.10 | alabd | lindi-: will it automatically use usb power ? |
| 11:42.33 | SpeedEvil | The GSM is directly connected to the battery. |
| 11:42.41 | SpeedEvil | In no way can it use USB power, ever. |
| 11:42.51 | DocScrutinizer51 | alabd: usb is used to keep system powered asnd battery charged whenever present |
| 11:42.52 | SpeedEvil | The battery can immediately be recharged. |
| 11:43.58 | DocScrutinizer51 | if your name is not lindi- then your battery is always between 70 and 100 percent automatically |
| 11:44.37 | DocScrutinizer51 | as long as usb power available |
| 11:44.37 | Defiant | lol? |
| 11:45.02 | DocScrutinizer51 | Defiant: huh?? |
| 11:45.39 | Defiant | DocScrutinizer51: refering to the "name is not" part... |
| 11:45.47 | lindi- | DocScrutinizer51: but for long storage I can put it to 40% |
| 11:46.36 | DocScrutinizer51 | lindi-: not recommended. Afaik LiIon stores best at 75% |
| 11:46.45 | lindi- | DocScrutinizer51: the papers i read say 40% |
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| 11:47.58 | lindi- | DocScrutinizer51: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium-ion_polymer_battery#Storage says 40% currently too |
| 11:48.02 | alabd | So we can be sure that battery after being 100% charged will not be chargd with usb continuesly |
| 11:48.24 | lindi- | alabd: you can be sure only by disabling charging :) |
| 11:48.28 | DocScrutinizer51 | alabd: exactly |
| 11:48.40 | DocScrutinizer51 | lindi-: nope!!!! |
| 11:48.41 | lindi- | alabd: however, it is not a good idea to keep the battery at 100% for long periods of time |
| 11:48.54 | DocScrutinizer51 | that's done automatically |
| 11:49.08 | DocScrutinizer51 | DO NOT MESS WITH MAIN BATTERY CHARGER |
| 11:49.24 | alabd | lindi-: DocScrutinizer51 dont bother beginner :D |
| 11:49.40 | alabd | see fr is connected to usb |
| 11:49.43 | alabd | gsm is off |
| 11:50.00 | alabd | for example battery has 90% charge |
| 11:50.24 | alabd | usb will charge battery until 100% |
| 11:50.35 | alabd | then 2 mode can be |
| 11:50.51 | alabd | 1 - we didable usb , again battery will be discharged ... |
| 11:51.23 | alabd | 2 - usb be connected to fr is this mode will usb charge battery after 100% (GSM IS OFF) |
| 11:51.52 | lindi- | alabd: charger will stop at 100% |
| 11:52.34 | alabd | lindi-: if it stops will it again charge battery in 99% ? |
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| 11:53.45 | lindi- | alabd: no in around 80% |
| 11:55.22 | alabd | ok again it will charge until 100% |
| 11:55.36 | alabd | does not this make battery life decrease? |
| 11:56.59 | lindi- | alabd: compared to what? |
| 11:58.55 | alabd | humble ask |
| 11:59.54 | alabd | and are you sure charger will not charge battery in 100% ? and will stop ? cause some companies remove that protector circuit to decrease prices |
| 12:00.55 | lindi- | alabd: you can measure battery current :) |
| 12:01.13 | lindi- | alabd: "om battery consumption" |
| 12:01.41 | alabd | root@om-gta02 ~ $ om battery consumption |
| 12:01.41 | alabd | -sh: om: not found |
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| 12:03.39 | lindi- | alabd: it's part of http://git.debian.org/?p=pkg-fso/omhacks.git;a=summary which is in debian |
| 12:03.55 | alabd | oh SHR ? |
| 12:04.01 | DocScrutinizer51 | alabd: lindi- constantly tries to sell his proprietary stuff to users ;-) |
| 12:04.35 | DocScrutinizer51 | alabd: you have bnq27k-detail |
| 12:04.48 | alabd | yes |
| 12:04.51 | alabd | so ? |
| 12:04.52 | DocScrutinizer51 | alabd: you won't get more info any other way |
| 12:05.28 | alabd | no how to be sure charger will not charge battery in 100% ? and will stop ? cause some companies remove that protector circuit to decrease prices |
| 12:05.41 | alabd | that was question |
| 12:06.29 | alabd | lindi-: DocScrutinizer51 how to om battery consumption on SHR ? |
| 12:06.40 | DocScrutinizer51 | alabd: the MBC in PMU defaults to sane settings. So as long as you don't mess with those PMU registers you're absolutely safe |
| 12:07.10 | lindi- | DocScrutinizer51: beware, we'll provide an API for bq27k-detail soon :) |
| 12:07.24 | DocScrutinizer51 | alabd: use bq27k-detail instead of om foo |
| 12:08.08 | lindi- | DocScrutinizer51: well the thing is that i don't remember the dbus paths for measuring battery consumption and i don't remember the url of bq27k-detail by heart either :) |
| 12:09.07 | DocScrutinizer51 | the second one is easy. people.openmoko.org/joerg/battery/* |
| 12:09.42 | alabd | DocScrutinizer51: ok has been run in which psrt of script result we can see battery consum |
| 12:10.36 | alabd | consumption* |
| 12:10.36 | DocScrutinizer51 | current_now? |
| 12:11.22 | DocScrutinizer51 | there's at least 3 different values |
| 12:12.45 | DocScrutinizer51 | depending on whether you want to get predicted duration to empty, or Ampere or Watt consumption. Then there are same values for standby current, for maximum and for dunno waht else |
| 12:13.12 | DocScrutinizer51 | alabd: just read the output and try to undersstand the words written there |
| 12:13.53 | DocScrutinizer51 | if that doesn't hep then read the bq27000 datasheet which has additional info on each value |
| 12:14.11 | alabd | DocScrutinizer51: see now fr is connected to usb and is 100% and script is run |
| 12:15.11 | alabd | at all does that script shows battery consuption in each time DocScrutinizer51? |
| 12:15.24 | DocScrutinizer51 | yes |
| 12:16.24 | DocScrutinizer51 | *_now is the avg of last ~25 sec |
| 12:16.59 | DocScrutinizer51 | or was it 5sec |
| 12:17.10 | DocScrutinizer51 | please just read the datasheet |
| 12:17.25 | alabd | where is datasheeet |
| 12:17.34 | alabd | there is no such _now in result |
| 12:17.34 | DocScrutinizer51 | the script was intended as a suplementary tool for datasheet study |
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| 12:18.16 | DocScrutinizer51 | away for lunch |
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| 12:25.39 | alabd | lindi-: have you read this ? http://people.openmoko.org/joerg/battery/batlog.txt.odf how did him/her do that ? |
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| 13:24.46 | alabd | DocScrutinizer51: lindi- we see here http://people.openmoko.org/joerg/battery/batlog.txt.odf |
| 13:25.05 | alabd | it does not stop charging at 100% ABOUT 44 MINUTES |
| 13:25.22 | alabd | it's bad for battery life |
| 13:26.04 | DocScrutinizer51 | alabd: nonsense |
| 13:26.40 | alabd | DocScrutinizer51: what is noosense ? |
| 13:27.04 | SpeedEvil | alabd: it needs to do that to top off a li-ion battery. |
| 13:28.13 | DocScrutinizer51 | charging stops when I-chg goes below charge threshold (which is 24mA iirc). What CC thinks when 100% are reached is a totally different story largely *unrelated* to cell chemistry |
| 13:28.25 | alabd | but some li ion battery companies remove charge control circuit to sell more battery , someone said |
| 13:28.48 | alabd | and where is datasheteet do you mean this ? this is about 1 or 2 page not including those info http://people.openmoko.org/joerg/battery/PACK950925.pdf |
| 13:29.00 | DocScrutinizer51 | alabd: so what?? |
| 13:29.27 | alabd | that is datasheet you mentioned ? |
| 13:29.39 | DocScrutinizer51 | no I mean the bq2700 datasheet |
| 13:30.37 | DocScrutinizer51 | alabd: btw there's no (and never been) and charge *control* chip inside battrey |
| 13:30.50 | DocScrutinizer51 | this is MBC which is inside PMU |
| 13:31.40 | DocScrutinizer51 | aka PCF50633 |
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| 13:32.34 | alabd | MBC = http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boost_controller ? DocScrutinizer51 |
| 13:33.27 | alabd | DocScrutinizer51: SpeedEvil how to make battery life more ? |
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| 13:34.16 | DocScrutinizer51 | oops sorry disconnect |
| 13:34.24 | alabd | is it better to battery be discharged to which percent |
| 13:34.24 | DocScrutinizer51 | no I mean the bq2700 datasheet |
| 13:34.30 | DocScrutinizer51 | alabd: btw there's no (and never been) and charge *control* chip inside battrey |
| 13:34.34 | DocScrutinizer51 | this is MBC which is inside PMU |
| 13:34.38 | DocScrutinizer51 | aka PCF50633 |
| 13:34.40 | DocScrutinizer51 | we're talking about BQ27000 Coloumb Counter (battery monitoring) chip here. *This* chip in fact is inside GTA02 battery. Not inside GTSA01/Nokia BL-456C though |
| 13:36.14 | DocScrutinizer51 | MBC doesn't need this bq27k to treat LiIon cells nicely |
| 13:37.10 | DocScrutinizer51 | as I said before it defaults to sane setings and you're completely safe with any type of LiIon fitting into freerunner |
| 13:37.45 | DocScrutinizer51 | please read PCF50633 datasheet. MBC section to get how things work |
| 13:37.47 | alabd | at which percent of charge , is better battery be charged ? |
| 13:38.27 | DocScrutinizer51 | LiIon is charged witg constant voltage to a usual 4.2V |
| 13:38.41 | DocScrutinizer51 | ...in final charge stage |
| 13:39.07 | DocScrutinizer51 | you mustn't exceed something like 4.3V |
| 13:39.12 | alabd | DocScrutinizer51: no just humble want to know how to make fr GTA02 battery life more |
| 13:40.32 | alabd | at which percent of charge , is better battery be charged ? 80% 70% 30% 10% ? |
| 13:40.33 | DocScrutinizer51 | leave bat treatment to MBC inside PCF50633. Don't listen to lindi- ;-) #9"mt use ancient andy-tracking kernels which did nasty to MBC + cell |
| 13:40.49 | DocScrutinizer51 | err |
| 13:41.21 | DocScrutinizer51 | store at 40..75% at 10..15C |
| 13:41.43 | alabd | no store |
| 13:41.53 | alabd | while it is used meant |
| 13:41.57 | DocScrutinizer51 | keep cycles low' avoid deep discharge for normal usage |
| 13:42.41 | alabd | for example |
| 13:43.00 | alabd | now batter charge is 90 % ok we connect it ti usb gsm is off |
| 13:43.05 | DocScrutinizer51 | keeping bat between 75 and 100 percent all the time but not at 100percent all the time seems very healthy for LiIon |
| 13:43.27 | alabd | so first it will charge to 100% ? |
| 13:43.34 | DocScrutinizer51 | yesw |
| 13:43.44 | alabd | ok it goes up to 100% |
| 13:43.52 | alabd | usb is connected yet |
| 13:43.57 | DocScrutinizer51 | then it will drain to approx 75 and restart charging |
| 13:44.00 | alabd | it remains at 100% 44 min |
| 13:44.31 | alabd | no until usb is connected it will not go down from 100% will it ? |
| 13:44.42 | DocScrutinizer51 | it will |
| 13:44.48 | DocScrutinizer51 | to 75 |
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| 13:46.54 | DocScrutinizer51 | alabd: PLEASEmread the wiki battery FAQ. Me and Paul prepared them for good reason |
| 13:47.11 | alabd | wich page exactly ? |
| 13:47.29 | DocScrutinizer51 | virtually all your quewtions so far are answered there |
| 13:47.41 | DocScrutinizer51 | *sigh* |
| 13:48.07 | DocScrutinizer51 | PaulFertser: can you help me out with actual URL? |
| 13:50.00 | alabd | PaulFertser: has gone around |
| 13:50.06 | alabd | there are some pages |
| 13:50.27 | SpeedEvil | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo_FreeRunner_%28GTA02%29_Battery |
| 13:50.30 | SpeedEvil | ? |
| 13:50.54 | alabd | this ? DocScrutinizer51 |
| 13:51.25 | DocScrutinizer51 | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Battery_Questions_and_Answers |
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| 13:52.07 | alabd | thanks |
| 13:54.39 | alabd | so at all anyone can not stand on 100% as you say it will decrease to 75% and then charged enables yeah ;)) |
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| 14:08.53 | DocScrutinizer51 | ~batteryFAQ is http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Battery_Questions_and_Answers |
| 14:08.54 | infobot | okay, DocScrutinizer51 |
| 14:10.08 | DocScrutinizer51 | ~batteryfaq |
| 14:10.09 | infobot | i guess batteryfaq is http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Battery_Questions_and_Answers |
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| 16:13.11 | JaMa | is there remoko author or some remoko user with some bitbake knowledge? |
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| 16:18.04 | alabd | hello |
| 16:18.38 | alabd | (05:12:05 PM) DocScrutinizer51: keeping bat between 75 and 100 percent all the time but not at 100percent all the time seems very healthy for LiIon |
| 16:19.17 | alabd | at all can battery be 100% all time DocScrutinizer51? |
| 16:22.03 | DocScrutinizer51 | alabd: no, it usually can not as MBC takes care to avoid this |
| 16:22.36 | DocScrutinizer51 | ~tell alabd about batteryfaq |
| 16:23.02 | alabd | told |
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| 17:39.51 | PBeck|mobile | hi |
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| 17:49.08 | alabd | hi |
| 17:50.07 | alabd | How to use *.osm maps with tangogps or navit ? |
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| 17:52.39 | SpeedEvil | you can't use with tangogps |
| 17:52.57 | SpeedEvil | well - you can - but you functionalyl can't - it involces a whole map renderer infrastructure |
| 17:53.20 | SpeedEvil | navit IIRC preprocesses the files with an externam program |
| 17:54.52 | alabd | SpeedEvil: you mean .bin files? |
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| 18:00.39 | SpeedEvil | yes |
| 18:00.49 | SpeedEvil | i thinks o though I've never used navit |
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| 18:02.25 | alabd | SpeedEvil: what is the difference between *.osm and *.bin maps ? |
| 18:02.55 | SpeedEvil | they are a different format |
| 18:03.02 | SpeedEvil | thing gif and jpeg |
| 18:03.14 | SpeedEvil | one is xml, one is a compressed map format |
| 18:03.47 | alabd | ok so maps are the same |
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| 18:04.01 | mjr | yes you had to convert to navit format with an external program last I checked (quite a while ago) |
| 18:04.23 | alabd | mjr: navit format ? |
| 18:04.42 | mjr | well whatever it was it used natively |
| 18:06.28 | SpeedEvil | the osm data has information on last editor of each node, ... |
| 18:06.38 | SpeedEvil | which navit would never need |
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| 20:19.38 | FredF | hi all |
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| 20:58.37 | Blaztur | woops |
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