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| 00:25.00 | UndrWater | playya_: didn't work |
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| 01:25.49 | naquan | gave up on compiling 2.6.31 kernel, it's too much for beginner :( |
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| 02:10.45 | larsc | well using a good toolchain it's quite easy actually |
| 02:11.02 | larsc | as easy as typing `make` |
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| 02:32.39 | naquan | larsc: it's only easy with the adny-tracking main branch, which is 2.6.29, not the latest head om-2.6.31 :( |
| 02:33.11 | naquan | many files & functions 're missing |
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| 04:43.36 | rhaeder | s.o. "playing" CellHunter here? |
| 04:43.38 | rhaeder | good morning, all :) |
| 04:49.08 | rhaeder | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Louis_Vitton_Presents_Sea-inspired_Exhibit <-- some spam to kill? |
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| 05:01.32 | Undrwater1 | PaulFertser: any changes to bluetooth with latest shr? things look a bit different |
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| 06:39.35 | PaulFertser | Undrwater1: yep, the pidof trick doesn't work anymore afaik |
| 06:40.02 | Undrwater1 | PaulFertser: anything new that will? |
| 06:40.20 | PaulFertser | Undrwater1: well, i think i should provide updated instructions then. The idea is to find the adapter path just like the python examples do. Easily doable from the shell as well. |
| 06:40.58 | Undrwater1 | PaulFertser: which python examples? |
| 06:42.22 | PaulFertser | Undrwater1: ok, give me a minute |
| 06:43.19 | DocScrutinizer51 | moin |
| 06:43.37 | PaulFertser | DocScrutinizer51: good morning :) |
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| 06:49.01 | PaulFertser | Undrwater1: so, after bluetooth is powered on and bluetoothd is started one should do |
| 06:49.40 | PaulFertser | export BTADAPTER=`dbus-send --system --dest=org.bluez --print-reply / org.bluez.Manager.DefaultAdapter | tail -1 | sed 's/^.*"\(.*\)".*$/\1/'` |
| 06:50.08 | PaulFertser | And then in all instructions instead of /org/bluez/`pidof bluetoothd`/hci0 one should use $BTADAPTER |
| 06:52.24 | PaulFertser | The panu script should be altered too obviously. |
| 06:52.29 | Undrwater1 | so $BTADAPTER/dev_etc.... |
| 06:52.32 | PaulFertser | Undrwater1: yep |
| 06:52.57 | PaulFertser | Undrwater1: is there any sense in spending time on modifying the wiki? To me it seems like nobody's interested :( |
| 06:53.00 | Undrwater1 | org.bluez.Headset.Connect remains as well? |
| 06:53.10 | PaulFertser | Undrwater1: sure, methods remain the same |
| 06:53.39 | Undrwater1 | i'd like to see it in the wiki...it'll come up again for sure in the future i think |
| 06:54.06 | Undrwater1 | for sure i think ;) |
| 06:55.34 | PaulFertser | Undrwater1: btw, for something that is done from scripts i really recommend dbus-send instead of mdbus, mdbus is handy for introspection but it's slower. |
| 06:56.28 | Undrwater1 | PaulFertser: i've read that and understand...i need to sit down sometime and read how it all works...VERY different from my usual linux experience |
| 06:57.08 | PaulFertser | Undrwater1: in fact it's not. One should think of bluez dbus API as if it was a usual GUI, it maps to buttons and switches one-to-one. |
| 06:58.37 | Undrwater1 | i think i get the concept...head still not wrapped around it fully |
| 07:03.33 | DocScrutinizer51 | the main issue is usually nobody sticks a label to any of those switches and buttons |
| 07:03.55 | DocScrutinizer51 | also the manual is missing |
| 07:04.34 | mwester | the fundamental issue is lazy programmers who think they can replace a proper set of basic commandline tools with an API and a lot of hand-waving. |
| 07:04.57 | DocScrutinizer51 | lol |
| 07:05.01 | DocScrutinizer51 | yeah |
| 07:05.15 | mwester | It's like having a new stereo installed in your auto, and finding wires hanging out of the dashboard -- "just code your own knobs and switches" |
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| 07:12.32 | PaulFertser | DocScrutinizer51: the manual is there |
| 07:12.58 | PaulFertser | DocScrutinizer51: in the "doc" directory of the sources. Called *-api.txt |
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| 07:13.39 | DocScrutinizer51 | well. for this particular subsystem that may be the case |
| 07:14.56 | PaulFertser | mwester: btw, i thought the same until i actually tried using bluez4 api. It seemed to me not so hard after i "got it". And for the most common tasks one can easily write bash or C-wrappers. I'm sure if someone did, Marcel would accept the tools in the repo. |
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| 07:17.08 | DocScrutinizer51 | btw src/doc/* seems a poor home for a manual addressed to the *user* |
| 07:19.08 | mwester | PaulFertser, I'm sure I could write such a thing, just as I'm quite sure I can solder switches and controls to a radio in my auto's dashboard -- but that's not the point. :) |
| 07:20.16 | PaulFertser | mwester: the point is that most users do not need a set of proper command line tools to do bluetooth-related tasks anymore, and those who need that are satisfied with python or dbus-send solutions. |
| 07:21.09 | mwester | I'm not. |
| 07:21.19 | DocScrutinizer51 | mwester: what your local time? seems you're really much smarter and more awake than me right now ;-) |
| 07:21.37 | mwester | :) 1 AM here. |
| 07:21.48 | mwester | I'm off to get some sleep, though. |
| 07:25.39 | DocScrutinizer51 | PaulFertser: I'm with mwester here. Your much appreciated work done is basically the damn duty of the original authors |
| 07:33.17 | PaulFertser | DocScrutinizer51: i still disagree. I think the bluez4 api is in fact end-user api so if one needs it, he just uses it. There were omissions in the documentation regarding bluetooth networking. When i got it working i sent a patch to the documentation and it got accepted. |
| 07:36.04 | DocScrutinizer51 | PaulFertser: ok. I never had any look at bluez neither on the docs. Generally speaking a manual addressed to enduser is largely useless if it lives in source repository only |
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| 07:40.34 | DocScrutinizer51 | PaulFertser: evidentally there *is* a way to interface via cmdline. It's called dbus-send. For a decent release there's probably missing the bluez manpage then |
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| 07:41.52 | PaulFertser | DocScrutinizer51: indeed, a manpage concatenating all of the api and giving dbus-send examples is missing, it would be mad useful. |
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| 08:07.42 | DocScrutinizer51 | exactly. I wonder what happened to the policy of no code ever getting upstream without a manpage. Maybe there never was such policy? |
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| 08:11.32 | DocScrutinizer51 | tbh this was one of the major reasons I started with unix - a manpage for everything. back in the 80s that's been a guaranteed property of *nix systems. At least afaik |
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| 08:31.33 | Heinervdm | Someone i here has a bluetooth handsfree (or sth else) that supports PBAP (showing missed calls and adressbook) ? |
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| 12:11.35 | pbaxter | hi all |
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| 16:24.57 | renilgh | Huhay |
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| 16:27.33 | renilgh | the topic-link to hackable1 release is missing a .html at the end |
| 16:28.45 | renilgh | got a Freerunner yesterday, have the feeling there's already something wrong with my uSD card - could someone point me to something i could use to check this? |
| 16:29.23 | renilgh | just dd'ed the latest firmware onto the card but am unable to eject it now |
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| 16:38.12 | Heinervdm | renilgh: why do you dd the firmware on your card? |
| 16:39.00 | Heinervdm | Someone i here has a bluetooth handsfree (or sth else) that supports PBAP (showing missed calls and adressbook) ? |
| 16:41.15 | renilgh | Heinervdm: uhm, the wiki said so - i should dd the firmware image(!) to the card and then boot the freerunner from it |
| 16:41.49 | Heinervdm | you normaly just extract the tar.gz on your sd card, and thats all |
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| 16:46.35 | renilgh | okay |
| 16:47.47 | renilgh | so the uboot can boot from an .iso file? |
| 16:47.55 | renilgh | i'm trying to follow http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Getting_Started_with_your_Neo_FreeRunner#Updating_the_GSM_Firmware |
| 16:48.27 | Heinervdm | renilgh: ah you're trying to flash the GSM firmware and no distro |
| 16:48.32 | Heinervdm | that's sth different |
| 16:48.55 | Heinervdm | renilgh: for that you have to use dd |
| 16:49.54 | Heinervdm | and then that's the reason why you can |
| 16:50.01 | Heinervdm | 't eject that card |
| 16:50.02 | renilgh | yes, the firmware |
| 16:50.27 | renilgh | uh, why exactly cannot i eject the card? |
| 16:50.32 | renilgh | dd finished |
| 16:50.45 | Heinervdm | you should have ejected that card before dd'ing ;) |
| 16:50.59 | renilgh | ouch? |
| 16:51.06 | renilgh | i thought i just had to umount it |
| 16:51.08 | Heinervdm | now it probably has another device name |
| 16:51.13 | Heinervdm | yes |
| 16:51.14 | renilgh | aaah, ok |
| 16:51.20 | Heinervdm | that's enough |
| 16:51.46 | Heinervdm | eject won't do anything else as umount it, i think |
| 16:51.57 | renilgh | no, device name seems still to be the same |
| 16:52.08 | Heinervdm | just pull the card out |
| 16:52.13 | renilgh | parted also shows the new partitions on it |
| 16:52.33 | renilgh | okay, should i try to boot the freerunner from it? |
| 16:52.44 | Heinervdm | parted scans the partition table, but your kernel doesn't |
| 16:52.52 | Heinervdm | yes |
| 16:56.12 | renilgh | looks good, thx (: |
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| 18:32.56 | rafa | hi |
| 18:33.06 | rafa | there are openmoko gamers here? |
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| 18:45.44 | PBeck | hi |
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| 19:04.05 | badcloud_ | rafa, yo |
| 19:05.24 | rafa | badcloud_: I am going to release a distribution with games only, Would you be interested? |
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| 19:10.48 | badcloud_ | no telephone app? |
| 19:10.57 | badcloud_ | I'm using it as a daily phone as well |
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| 19:11.24 | badcloud_ | though it sounds like a neat idea anyway |
| 19:11.26 | badcloud_ | just not for me |
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| 19:14.19 | rafa | badcloud_: the idea is not for daily use. The idea is to have it in some extra sd |
| 19:15.03 | rafa | badcloud_: So when you need a good dose of games you have that extra sd full of games |
| 19:20.09 | lindi- | rafa: free software? |
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| 19:23.17 | rafa | lindi-: all the games free software. It will include some open source emulator (for example snes) which needs non open source roms. The use will decide if he wants to use those emulators. Of course, the distro will not include roms or other non open source stuff. |
| 19:23.39 | rafa | The user will decide* |
| 19:25.45 | badcloud_ | rafa, what would you use for control input? |
| 19:25.58 | badcloud_ | *controller |
| 19:27.16 | rafa | badcloud_: I did a simple game control app. You can define that you want to use to control the games. It can use touchscreen and accelerometers. You run the game and the game control app with command line arguments. The game control app sends key events to X, so the game running gets those events. |
| 19:27.39 | badcloud_ | nice |
| 19:28.29 | rafa | The games will have pre defined arguments for the game control app. But you would be able to change the config. |
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| 19:34.04 | lindi- | rafa: do you consider flight of the amazon queen to be free? |
| 19:35.16 | rafa | lindi-: it depends. I don't know such game. When I mean free I mean that it has a free software license. |
| 19:35.21 | rafa | lindi-: which is the point? |
| 19:35.59 | rafa | When I say free* |
| 19:36.27 | lindi- | rafa: well there is no source code for it but the authors say you can distribute it |
| 19:37.11 | rafa | ah, free to distribute. No, that is not free software and I am not going to include such kind of games. |
| 19:37.56 | lindi- | rafa: authors say that you can also modify it if you want (but there is still no source code) |
| 19:38.24 | lindi- | rafa: (scummvm can interpret the bytecode) |
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| 19:41.38 | rafa | lindi-: funny :) (if they use a known free software license you can ask for the source code). But anyway, I am not interested in such kind of games. If scummvm is free software (like I read some time ago) it could be included as well. And again, the user will decide to use non free games with it or no. ;) |
| 19:42.17 | lindi- | rafa: why can you ask for the source code? |
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| 19:44.52 | rafa | simply because the license says that you can modify it. You can say them : hey, could I get the source code? I would like to modify it :) |
| 19:45.53 | lindi- | rafa: the catch is that the authors have lost the source code 10 years ago |
| 19:46.34 | cargill | not necessarily, if you consider a license that allows distribution of modified app, just that the only source you get is the bytecode... |
| 19:46.38 | UndrWater | rafa: I love the idea |
| 19:47.09 | cargill | wow |
| 19:48.41 | rafa | cargill: lindi-: okey, if they lost the source code then they didn't like it much :) . I would not include such game, but you can do in your mobile phone ;) |
| 19:49.32 | rafa | UndrWater: I am working to realese a first version soon. For christmas would be nice :) |
| 19:49.44 | cargill | what would be the baseline of the distro? |
| 19:50.02 | rafa | an old openmoko distro |
| 19:50.09 | UndrWater | rafa: you'll announce on ML? |
| 19:50.22 | rafa | UndrWater: sure, I will |
| 19:50.57 | UndrWater | any idea of the size as of yet? |
| 19:52.03 | rafa | cargill: there are cool games ready for such old openmoko distro already. And because I will not modify the base distro (I only want to port more games there only) that is okey for the goals (an SD with lot of fun :) ) |
| 19:52.37 | rafa | UndrWater: the distro is tiny and boots in 32 seconds ;) the games will use a lot of space :( |
| 19:52.59 | UndrWater | more than a gig? |
| 19:53.20 | rafa | UndrWater: nah.. at least for the first version. |
| 19:54.19 | rafa | UndrWater: I am using a 256MB SD to test, but I have not included all the games that there are ready. Perhaps 512MB is a proper SD for all the current games. |
| 19:54.32 | Wonka | I have an 8gig uSDHC card... and am thinking about buying a 16gig |
| 19:55.09 | UndrWater | sounds good ;) |
| 19:55.13 | Wonka | on the 512meg card that came with the FR I have shr unstable |
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| 19:57.13 | rafa | Wonka: well, you can test the distro with games only first, and if you like the idea you can buy another non big SD (1gb) for the distro :) |
| 20:00.22 | Wonka | will see... |
| 20:00.50 | Wonka | btw, I am not subscribed to "The ML" - is there an archive on the web? |
| 20:01.34 | rafa | Wonka: how do you get news about openmoko ? Perhaps I would have another useful way to announce or read things |
| 20:01.48 | Wonka | planet.openmoko.org |
| 20:07.00 | UndrWater | submit to community update...it'll make it to planet as well |
| 20:08.01 | rafa | Wonka: UndrWater : okey, I need to work hard today and tomorrow, so we can have a version to test for christmas :D |
| 20:08.24 | rafa | and then I will announce in ML and community update |
| 20:11.56 | UndrWater | great! |
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| 21:10.54 | PaulFertser | DocScrutinizer: (code without manpage) there's still a policy like that in Debian. Just somehow it doesn't include any dbus-apis, no matter if they're end-user targeted or not. |
| 21:11.45 | wolf_ | PaulFertser, sorry curious about this - what is the policy? that code should always come with a manpage? |
| 21:14.04 | mwester | How could a dbus-api be targeted for an end-user?? That makes as much sense as saying an electrical appliance with bare wires where a plug should be is targetted at the typical consumer. :D (The argument that a dbus-api might be targetted at "hackers/experimenters", such as those who would purchase the gta0x, is valid, though). |
| 21:14.49 | mwester | valid for experimenters, but I still think insufficient... :) |
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| 21:32.49 | dando | hi to all. |
| 21:32.57 | SpeedEvil | hi |
| 21:34.50 | UndrWater | howdy |
| 21:35.30 | badcloud_ | aloha |
| 21:37.25 | badcloud_ | what distro at this point would you guys think is most suitable for the average end-user (if any)? |
| 21:38.08 | badcloud_ | av. end-user being someone who wants use of all gta0x's hw |
| 21:38.29 | badcloud_ | but not to the extent of writing software/tweaking hw |
| 21:39.40 | dando | i have some problems with the bitbake recipes. my sourcecode compiles with autotools. standard: ./configure make make install on an amd64 no dependencies. But it wont compile with shr bitbake. do_install routine does not work. SRC_URI = "http://localhost/log2gpx-${PV}.tar.gz" |
| 21:39.40 | dando | DEPENDS = "" |
| 21:39.40 | dando | SECTION= "console/utils" |
| 21:39.40 | dando | inherit autotools |
| 21:40.11 | dando | ups |
| 21:43.27 | dando | thats all i need to compile a hello world for example, isn't it ? |
| 21:43.53 | dando | SRC_URI, DEPENDS and inherit |
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| 21:47.18 | UndrWater | badcloud_: how about tweaking config files? |
| 21:47.37 | badcloud_ | UndrWater, reasonable |
| 21:47.41 | dando | make: *** No rule to make target `install'. Stop. |
| 21:47.41 | dando | FATAL: oe_runmake failed |
| 21:47.46 | dando | thats all i get |
| 21:48.01 | UndrWater | badcloud_: have you already looked at a couple of distros? |
| 21:48.35 | badcloud_ | sure, I've used shr-t, -u, h1 rev4, 5rc1, qtmoko |
| 21:48.40 | badcloud_ | and most of the om's |
| 21:48.49 | badcloud_ | but I was just asking as far as current status |
| 21:48.59 | UndrWater | ahh...then have any met your requirement? |
| 21:49.13 | badcloud_ | I would say qtmoko comes pretty damn close |
| 21:49.31 | badcloud_ | thought I'd get another opinion |
| 21:49.35 | UndrWater | i've used shr-u as phone...but missing simple bt headset config |
| 21:49.47 | UndrWater | also, PIM seems to be lacking |
| 21:50.06 | UndrWater | but that's pretty much the same for all of the distros...i need PIM and BT for daily use |
| 21:50.14 | UndrWater | so i still use my Treo |
| 21:50.16 | badcloud_ | I see |
| 21:50.44 | badcloud_ | I haven't ventured into bt except for a brief struggle with a pocket bt kbd |
| 21:50.55 | badcloud_ | (with the neo) |
| 21:51.10 | UndrWater | btheadset for me...it can work...but it's not pretty |
| 21:51.20 | badcloud_ | I see |
| 21:51.38 | UndrWater | i think any distro using FSO can use it similarly |
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| 21:51.55 | badcloud_ | which model headset do you use? |
| 21:51.57 | UndrWater | pisi was just upgraded...so maybe PIM will be better now |
| 21:52.02 | UndrWater | cardo s800 |
| 21:52.11 | UndrWater | GREAT headset |
| 21:52.29 | UndrWater | very clear sound for both parties |
| 21:52.35 | badcloud_ | checking it out right now |
| 21:52.37 | UndrWater | i use it for voice recognition as well |
| 21:53.07 | UndrWater | (on windows) |
| 21:53.23 | badcloud_ | not cheap |
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| 21:53.41 | badcloud_ | but from your description, worth the money? |
| 21:53.57 | UndrWater | how much did u find it for? |
| 21:54.02 | badcloud_ | 60 eu |
| 21:54.10 | UndrWater | i think i paid $40 US |
| 21:54.14 | badcloud_ | nice |
| 21:54.17 | UndrWater | and cheaper on ebay |
| 21:54.29 | badcloud_ | sure |
| 21:54.50 | UndrWater | compared with the many i've tried (including the really expensive ones...jawbone comes to mind), it's the best so far |
| 21:54.50 | badcloud_ | well, if I look for one, I'll start with that model |
| 21:55.06 | badcloud_ | how's the range? |
| 21:55.43 | UndrWater | great sound up to about 3 meters maybe |
| 21:55.53 | UndrWater | then pops and clicks start intruding |
| 21:56.02 | badcloud_ | cool |
| 21:56.08 | badcloud_ | thanks for the info |
| 21:56.18 | UndrWater | NP |
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| 22:53.39 | *** join/#openmoko jan1 (n=jan@5ED19AEB.cable.ziggo.nl) |
| 22:53.43 | jan1 | hi all |
| 22:54.01 | jan1 | i was trying to create a swap file following the wiki |
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| 22:54.32 | jan1 | but now i get this message after mkswap /swapfile: |
| 22:54.34 | *** join/#openmoko _Fox_Muldr (i=quakeman@g226211015.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 22:54.55 | jan1 | mkswap: /swapfile: warning: don't erase bootbits sectors |
| 22:54.55 | jan1 | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:54.56 | jan1 | Setting up swapspace version 1, size = 65532 KiB |
| 22:54.56 | jan1 | no label, UUID=ac5f8d3e-1449-49b7-9b78-fcdd45b6f491 |
| 22:55.30 | jan1 | what does it mean? is it dangerous? should I use the -f option? |
| 22:57.44 | yanu | mkswap /dev/??? with ??? the device-name |
| 22:58.23 | SpeedEvil | it's irrelevant |
| 22:58.38 | SpeedEvil | if you're making a swap file - an actual file - then it has no boot sector or stuff |
| 22:58.43 | SpeedEvil | so it doesn't matter |
| 23:00.01 | yanu | hmm, i must take some sleep, read it wrong ;) night |
| 23:02.08 | jan1 | SpeedEvil: so you are suggesting to use the -f option? |
| 23:03.15 | SpeedEvil | It's irrelevant - if it's made the image already |
| 23:03.22 | SpeedEvil | just try swapon /swapfile |
| 23:04.24 | jan1 | that results in: |
| 23:04.34 | jan1 | swapon: /swapfile: swapon failed: Invalid argument |
| 23:05.09 | jan1 | maybe because the mkswap command failed? |
| 23:05.37 | SpeedEvil | yes - possibly |
| 23:05.47 | SpeedEvil | try -f |
| 23:05.56 | jan1 | OK, I'll take the risk and use -f |
| 23:07.00 | jan1 | mkswap -f /swapfile |
| 23:07.00 | jan1 | Setting up swapspace version 1, size = 65532 KiB |
| 23:07.04 | jan1 | but: |
| 23:07.13 | jan1 | swapon /swapfile |
| 23:07.13 | jan1 | swapon: /swapfile: swapon failed: Invalid argument |
| 23:07.40 | jan1 | so swapon still does not work... |
| 23:12.24 | *** join/#openmoko max_posedon (n=max_pose@80.249.84.73) |
| 23:13.38 | SpeedEvil | swap can't be done on some classes of filesystems |
| 23:13.43 | SpeedEvil | namely compressed ones |
| 23:14.46 | jan1 | I've a jffs2 file system |
| 23:14.52 | jan1 | is that compressed? |
| 23:14.54 | SpeedEvil | yes |
| 23:15.04 | jan1 | thanks |
| 23:15.14 | jan1 | thats probably the problem then |
| 23:15.51 | jan1 | I'll try to create a swap on my uSD card then |
| 23:19.17 | jan1 | SpeedEvil: that worked. thanks again. |
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| 23:24.58 | max_posedon | SpeedEvil, sorry, can't or useless or smth like this? |
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| 23:36.12 | SpeedEvil | ? max_posedon |
| 23:37.13 | max_posedon | I don't understand why swap(swap-file) can't be created on jffs2 |
| 23:37.42 | SpeedEvil | max_posedon: because it can't. |
| 23:37.50 | SpeedEvil | The swap subsystem does not support it |
| 23:42.07 | max_posedon | I see now, big surprise for me, I thought swap file can be done on anything. |
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