| 00:02.27 | rhkfin | gena2x: zhone is available for debian |
| 00:03.20 | gena2x | rhkfin: Only zhone? |
| 00:04.37 | *** join/#openmoko fredrin|fail (n=fredrik|@ti0035a340-dhcp0191.bb.online.no) |
| 00:06.22 | gena2x | raster: Btw, i'm not consider hw slow anymore after FIFO patch. |
| 00:06.47 | gena2x | raster: In latest shr ui it very acceptable. |
| 00:06.55 | gena2x | raster: s/it/is/ |
| 00:08.34 | raster | gena2x: still slow. :) |
| 00:08.44 | gena2x | raster: Try it :) |
| 00:09.05 | Weiss | definitely still slow, but for sure it's become a lot more acceptable :) |
| 00:09.25 | raster | has cortex-a8 hw @ 800mhz with a high-clocked sgx540 to play with |
| 00:09.36 | gena2x | raster: but agree, om is big green field for optimizations :) |
| 00:09.39 | raster | its slow compared to what i actually work on |
| 00:09.55 | raster | om is a dead end. |
| 00:09.59 | raster | no more om devices |
| 00:10.04 | raster | (phones) |
| 00:10.46 | gena2x | raster: Om will be dead only then it's community die. |
| 00:10.49 | raster | its a 2g gprs modem... be realistic. thats like saying your pc is great but you have to use modem dialup instead of broadband. :) |
| 00:11.13 | raster | the community will die |
| 00:11.27 | raster | mostly because it will get sucked away to other devices and their communities |
| 00:11.47 | raster | as those other devices coming out will be new, fast, shiny, sexy, have great features, good hw and more |
| 00:11.48 | gena2x | raster: We all will die somehow :) Something wrong with E today? |
| 00:12.10 | raster | no. nothing wrong. i'm grumpy tho. got a tooothache |
| 00:12.21 | rhkfin | thinks the community never grew up as big as it would've been possible with this device.. community management fail. |
| 00:12.35 | raster | rhkfin: correct |
| 00:12.53 | raster | tho the gta02 didnt sell as well as it could have mostly because it was soldi - not working. |
| 00:13.04 | raster | so many people ridiculed the freerunner |
| 00:13.07 | raster | and rightly so |
| 00:13.18 | raster | "you sell a phone that cant even make phone calls? hahaha" |
| 00:13.24 | raster | i have heard that one way too often |
| 00:13.36 | raster | people who would be interested in an open linux hackable phone simply didnnt buy it |
| 00:13.36 | rhkfin | To me it looks that neither qi-hardware or OM with wikireader are managing the community any better.. |
| 00:13.44 | raster | it had itself a bad reputation already |
| 00:14.38 | raster | but to me - the community cant build because it sees no future |
| 00:14.40 | gena2x | raster: Not so bad... Really, I wanted to buy n900 recently. |
| 00:14.54 | gena2x | raster: to have normal phone :) |
| 00:14.56 | raster | why spend $ on a device and join a community that is going to shriink and die off? |
| 00:15.13 | raster | fact of life is - youw ill wnat more power, more features et.c |
| 00:15.16 | raster | andd that means better hw |
| 00:15.23 | rhkfin | raster: that's true.. I think there has to be someone to show the future & lead. |
| 00:15.27 | raster | and.. om isnt going to provide it, so.. u'll ne eyeing another device |
| 00:15.38 | raster | and that pretty much means u''ll be tempted off into other communities |
| 00:15.59 | raster | rhkfin: indeed. as long as om was doing a gta03, gta04 etc. |
| 00:16.02 | raster | there was a future |
| 00:16.05 | rhkfin | has a friend who got N900 from Nokia - and hasn't started Freerunner ever since.. (oka, maybe twice..) |
| 00:16.09 | rhkfin | raster: true |
| 00:16.31 | raster | but now its peole just waiting until they are tired of it |
| 00:16.36 | gena2x | raster: but it appears that maemo... it's wrong. It's a phone without upgrade path |
| 00:16.37 | raster | or waitjg until their freerunenr dies |
| 00:16.39 | raster | or gets lost |
| 00:16.41 | rhkfin | raster: true |
| 00:16.44 | raster | and then will go somewhhere else |
| 00:16.49 | raster | or actively looking elsehwere |
| 00:17.02 | raster | gena2x: how is that so? |
| 00:17.23 | raster | maemo is a debian system underneath for starters |
| 00:17.26 | rhkfin | My guess is that a large % will jump to N900 as it's the best 'big volume' ~open phone available |
| 00:17.47 | raster | not to mentiion nokia has PROVEN oveer the years to provide updated os's for existing products |
| 00:17.48 | raster | ? |
| 00:18.07 | raster | rhkfin: yeah. my bet iss there too... unless someone else produces something equivalent/better |
| 00:18.16 | raster | which may happen :) |
| 00:18.29 | rhkfin | nice to see where SHR will go: is it waiting for a new hardware to run on or will it die with Freerunner.. |
| 00:18.36 | gena2x | and whole thing depends on whatever you want to do with device |
| 00:18.50 | rhkfin | raster: you know something about new open HW..:? |
| 00:19.06 | raster | rhkfin: it needs new hw. the numebr of freerunenrs that are being used still/work is shrinking |
| 00:19.26 | raster | shr will continue as a "i do it for myself" until those peolpe doing it for themsleves finally switch phones |
| 00:19.28 | gena2x | Oh, sure he knows. cortex a9? |
| 00:19.30 | rhkfin | raster: yes.. btw is OM still producing GTA02v7? |
| 00:20.02 | raster | rhkfin: as best i know - no. om stoped production ages ago and just has beeen selling off inventory |
| 00:20.10 | rhkfin | ok |
| 00:20.32 | gena2x | i think that if you DsmthY, this became not just simple thing. |
| 00:20.51 | raster | gena2x: cortex-a9 is what engineers are planning for. cort-ex-a8 is the reality of existing products coming out the doors. arm9 (gtao2) is a dim distant relic from ancient times :) |
| 00:20.53 | gena2x | So you'll never just throw it away. |
| 00:21.13 | rhkfin | raster: how does cortex-a9 compare to the one used in N900? |
| 00:21.23 | raster | n900 is cortex-a8 |
| 00:21.25 | SpeedEvil | Quite a lot slower |
| 00:21.26 | rhkfin | right |
| 00:21.35 | raster | a9 is dual-core but otherwise the same arch as a8 |
| 00:21.36 | *** join/#openmoko thegreen4me1 (n=christia@adsl-69-231-113-60.dsl.irvnca.pacbell.net) |
| 00:21.39 | SpeedEvil | n900 has hardware fpu, and GPU on-chip |
| 00:21.41 | rhkfin | nice |
| 00:21.48 | raster | might also come at a higher clock - dependiing on your soc |
| 00:21.59 | raster | a8's are seen anywhere from 500 to 1000mhz |
| 00:22.07 | rhkfin | would like to see N900 power drivers & telephone stack open sourced |
| 00:22.09 | thegreen4me1 | how can I select a partition to boot from Qi? |
| 00:22.12 | SpeedEvil | yeah - 600MHz - though this is a peak speed in the n900 not rated for continuous use |
| 00:22.26 | rhkfin | thegreen4me1: it's magic.. |
| 00:22.43 | rhkfin | check wiki.. but it's something like pressing aux at the right time.. |
| 00:22.57 | raster | SpeedEvil: cortex-a9 slower than a8? |
| 00:23.01 | gena2x | raster: As far as I understood, N900 is a big blob of interface (dead end maemo 5) and underlaying system. and never can be upgraded to maemo 6 |
| 00:23.03 | raster | depends i guess |
| 00:23.16 | raster | but they are equivallent if on the same development path |
| 00:23.20 | raster | just 2, not 1 core |
| 00:23.28 | SpeedEvil | maemo 6 is reportedly going to fundamentally feature multitouch |
| 00:23.42 | rhkfin | raster: no, SpeedEvil meant N900 slower than -a9 |
| 00:23.44 | raster | gena2x: i seriously doubt that |
| 00:23.51 | SpeedEvil | hence it's problematic on existing hardware. |
| 00:23.58 | raster | gena2x: who says it cant be upgraded? |
| 00:24.01 | *** part/#openmoko thegreen4me1 (n=christia@adsl-69-231-113-60.dsl.irvnca.pacbell.net) |
| 00:24.05 | raster | rhkfin: aaah ok |
| 00:24.19 | gena2x | raster: read on their community site |
| 00:24.20 | SpeedEvil | raster: there have been reports from nokia people that there are no plans |
| 00:24.20 | raster | SpeedEvil: featuring it doesnt mean requiriing it :) |
| 00:24.20 | rhkfin | AFAIK yes, maemo6 (= N900+1) will have multitouch thus making N900 soon ~outdated |
| 00:24.26 | raster | but depends how its done |
| 00:24.31 | SpeedEvil | raster: sure. |
| 00:24.39 | raster | still since its qt - u likeely can build it without mt support etc, |
| 00:24.45 | raster | and get backwarrds-compat |
| 00:24.48 | SpeedEvil | Personally, I am not purchasing a new phone soon. |
| 00:24.50 | raster | u just dont get the funky new features |
| 00:24.58 | rhkfin | SpeedEvil: do you use FR? |
| 00:25.09 | gena2x | They have mode 'do - sell - fix holes - drop' |
| 00:25.13 | rhkfin | I do again - after #1024 and new SHR-testing .) |
| 00:25.15 | SpeedEvil | rhkfin: I bought gta01 - and had no cash to spend on FR |
| 00:25.27 | rhkfin | SpeedEvil: ok, nice |
| 00:25.39 | SpeedEvil | rhkfin: By the time I possibly did have cash, it was clear it wasn't going to be a working system, so I diddn't bother. |
| 00:25.47 | raster | gena2x: nokia did os2007,2008 as well as previous maemos and made them availbale for n800, n8100 etc. |
| 00:25.48 | gena2x | While om have chances to live. |
| 00:26.16 | rhkfin | needs to study.. exam in 6.5 hours.. :/ |
| 00:26.16 | raster | they did support upgrades for previous devices |
| 00:26.16 | raster | so i am unsure what u speak of |
| 00:26.16 | rhkfin | SpeedEvil: understand |
| 00:26.16 | raster | i have an n800 i upgraded os on twice |
| 00:26.28 | SpeedEvil | gena2x: I would expect 'mer' on n900 to vastly improve in the next 6 months |
| 00:26.36 | SpeedEvil | mer = open-source maemo - sorta |
| 00:26.38 | raster | SpeedEvil: indeed |
| 00:26.46 | raster | nokia themselevs dont need to actiively work on it |
| 00:26.51 | SpeedEvil | Indeed. |
| 00:26.53 | raster | as long as mer CAN pick up the slack |
| 00:26.53 | rhkfin | but power management & telephone stack... |
| 00:27.02 | raster | the problem there is things like the GL-es libs etc. |
| 00:27.10 | SpeedEvil | resists again the desire to open his n900. |
| 00:27.15 | rhkfin | :) |
| 00:27.20 | gena2x | raster: I'll try to find link... |
| 00:27.24 | SpeedEvil | I want to solder on a magnetometer chip in parallel with the accel chip |
| 00:27.25 | rhkfin | SpeedEvil: wait, you have N900? |
| 00:27.31 | SpeedEvil | rhkfin: yes. |
| 00:27.42 | rhkfin | I tried to find out if you use your GTA0X as your primary phone :) |
| 00:27.51 | SpeedEvil | I missed that. |
| 00:27.51 | rhkfin | Got the impression GTA01 is your phone .) |
| 00:28.00 | rhkfin | "02:24 < rhkfin> SpeedEvil: do you use FR? |
| 00:28.02 | rhkfin | :) |
| 00:28.06 | rhkfin | question fail :) |
| 00:28.33 | SpeedEvil | I did at one point use the gta01 - but it was either stick with a known working image, or spend too much time working out what was stable. |
| 00:28.45 | Weiss | wonders what hardware he could go and implement KMS/DRI2 on post-FR |
| 00:28.55 | SpeedEvil | Life has gotten in the way, and I haven't had the time to devote to it. |
| 00:29.02 | rhkfin | right.. SHR is the best so far but it still has a lot to be fixed & improved.. |
| 00:29.10 | raster | Weiss: nothing. there is nothng open. |
| 00:29.21 | Weiss | indeed |
| 00:29.34 | rhkfin | Android is out of question. |
| 00:29.37 | raster | Weiss: in future u geet the binary opengl blobs given - with their restrictions, or give up on dri/drm/opengl |
| 00:29.48 | Weiss | not even "I can get the datasheets via NDA" kind-of open |
| 00:30.05 | Weiss | that's no fun :) |
| 00:30.10 | SpeedEvil | You can get datasheets with NDA - and a purchase order. |
| 00:30.29 | SpeedEvil | I suspect |
| 00:30.33 | raster | SpeedEvil: with very large purchase orders. even then... only if u are lucky with the right SoC |
| 00:30.33 | gena2x | heh, I guess if someone found that FIFO feature in late, 2008 whole situation with FR were better... |
| 00:30.37 | raster | and the right weight |
| 00:30.46 | raster | even if ua re a big-boy. its troublesome |
| 00:31.04 | SpeedEvil | nokia wants, nokia gets. |
| 00:31.12 | SpeedEvil | anyone much smaller - probably not |
| 00:32.20 | raster | SpeedEvil: not even always then |
| 00:32.36 | raster | companies bigger than nokia can have problems |
| 00:32.37 | raster | :) |
| 00:33.19 | SpeedEvil | I mean potential for volume sales to a degree, not so much anything else. |
| 00:34.18 | raster | either way - the big boys even have problems |
| 00:34.26 | raster | but if anyone can get things done right - it's them |
| 00:34.46 | raster | so the best hope is to make sure the big boys design right and provide a solution that doesnt totally suck |
| 00:34.53 | gena2x | raster: I think this thread: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=31346 |
| 00:35.45 | SpeedEvil | sighs at talk. |
| 00:35.53 | SpeedEvil | Retarded interface. |
| 00:36.17 | SpeedEvil | tin back in 1995 was a couple of orders of magnitude better. |
| 00:36.44 | raster | gena2x: bah too many pages to read |
| 00:36.54 | raster | but,.. logic says that they should support n9900 with maemo 6 |
| 00:36.57 | raster | they WANt to push qt |
| 00:37.09 | raster | and thus getting it into the hads of people who already bought a device makes sense |
| 00:37.16 | *** join/#openmoko Derick (n=derick@xdebug.org) |
| 00:37.31 | gena2x | raster: Yes, even I'm not sure that this is really that thread after which I really stop thinking about n900 month ago... |
| 00:37.31 | SpeedEvil | How much they care is another issue. |
| 00:37.54 | SpeedEvil | 'nokia' as a whole doesn't give a shit about qt |
| 00:38.00 | SpeedEvil | IMO |
| 00:38.21 | raster | true |
| 00:38.23 | SpeedEvil | It largely depends on the utterly opaque internal descision making. |
| 00:38.32 | raster | but the parts that do are will be closely involved with the n900 |
| 00:38.35 | raster | and linux |
| 00:38.38 | SpeedEvil | Possibly. |
| 00:38.57 | SpeedEvil | The interface between the community and the paid coders is very iffy. |
| 00:39.11 | SpeedEvil | Which reminds me of another company... |
| 00:39.18 | raster | heheheheh |
| 00:39.25 | raster | i've heard that one before about the trolls |
| 00:39.26 | raster | :( |
| 00:39.28 | raster | brb |
| 00:45.49 | *** join/#openmoko emacsian (n=ram@122.167.89.156) |
| 00:46.09 | *** join/#openmoko raster (n=raster@enlightenment/developer/raster) |
| 00:46.35 | lindi- | gena2x: see wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/user:lindi |
| 00:46.47 | *** part/#openmoko Derick (n=derick@xdebug.org) |
| 00:52.22 | gena2x | lindi-: nice config... Are you using FR as a phone or only for development? |
| 00:54.02 | gena2x | lindi-: Ok, i see first line. it means 'phone'. |
| 01:03.30 | lindi- | gena2x: yes reliable phone is important for me |
| 01:06.25 | rhkfin | lindi-: hmm.. haven't actually seen your setup working but to me it looks like it has all this nice phone-stuff SHR is STILL missing - and you wrote this alone.. Like answering machine, propably also kapula |
| 01:07.12 | rhkfin | (can't start kapula on dekstop, requires fso.. |
| 01:07.42 | gena2x | rhkfin: I'll try to try it soon :) |
| 01:08.31 | rhkfin | nice :) |
| 01:08.42 | rhkfin | lindi-: screenshots of kapula? |
| 01:09.26 | rhkfin | lindi-: do I understand correctly that you've written the phone GUI (=messages, calls, contacts) yourself? |
| 01:10.41 | gena2x | rhkfin: Seems right way. 430 lines :) |
| 01:10.45 | lindi- | rhkfin: kapula is very simple. only calls and automatic completion using phonebook that is just a text file |
| 01:11.04 | gena2x | ___automatic completion___ |
| 01:11.15 | rhkfin | can't stop wondering why other groups work on it for weeks, months - and still can't get that far! |
| 01:11.33 | gena2x | lol |
| 01:11.40 | rhkfin | lindi-: you rock, again :) |
| 01:12.05 | lindi- | rhkfin: you can test it on desktop with "kapula --no-dbus" |
| 01:12.06 | SpeedEvil | wanting nice gui? |
| 01:12.42 | rhkfin | No, really. OK, SHR guys have done a great job again with new slick graphics, but functionality.. still far behind. |
| 01:12.45 | rhkfin | lindi-: fail |
| 01:13.00 | lindi- | aha, bugs |
| 01:13.09 | rhkfin | lindi-: http://pastebin.com/d5e73ec38 |
| 01:13.12 | gena2x | Wanting realiable phone app |
| 01:13.15 | rhkfin | lindi-: how about rolling out a release..? |
| 01:13.21 | rhkfin | of your debian |
| 01:13.34 | rhkfin | I'm sure there are people out there who'd be more than happy to use it.. |
| 01:13.39 | rhkfin | volunteers.. |
| 01:13.55 | gena2x | He have kernel without FIFO patch. no :) |
| 01:14.03 | lindi- | rhkfin: make it "kapula --no-dbus --no-request-gsm-on-startup" |
| 01:14.07 | *** join/#openmoko Personne (n=Blankowo@ven67-1-78-230-152-56.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 01:14.19 | lindi- | rhkfin: release? |
| 01:14.54 | rhkfin | lindi-: making your debian config EASILY available for others. Install script or something that'd set all the things up. |
| 01:15.01 | rhkfin | lindi-: got it working now |
| 01:15.14 | lindi- | rhkfin: i'm working on that with enrico. the "libomhacks" package just hit debian unstable last week |
| 01:15.27 | rhkfin | lindi-: Awesome! |
| 01:15.39 | gena2x | Normal gui. network: join/leave/quit |
| 01:15.40 | rhkfin | so is the om command of debian something you've been working with? |
| 01:15.55 | gena2x | call: dial/answer/hangup. |
| 01:16.02 | rhkfin | gena2x: yes, very simple. Maybe a bit useless without GSM :) |
| 01:16.07 | rhkfin | lindi-: how do you manage SMS's? |
| 01:16.13 | *** join/#openmoko mwester (n=mwester@nslu2-linux/mwester) |
| 01:16.14 | lindi- | gena2x: i'm not even using network join/leave/quit of kapula now since answering-machine is what keeps me in the network |
| 01:16.27 | gena2x | just all that needed |
| 01:16.41 | rhkfin | That guy has an answering machine ON HIS PHONE! |
| 01:17.00 | rhkfin | :) |
| 01:17.07 | lindi- | rhkfin: except that it's just a name, it won't actually record messages :P |
| 01:17.22 | gena2x | no, really. all that is needed. |
| 01:17.26 | *** join/#openmoko Openfree` (n=Openfree@116.228.88.98) |
| 01:17.26 | rhkfin | so what does it do :)? |
| 01:17.45 | rhkfin | ah, answering-machine for receiving calls and playing the ringtone. This lets me answer calls with AUX button even if X is dead. |
| 01:18.29 | gena2x | I'll try all that. |
| 01:18.41 | lindi- | rhkfin: answering-machine logins to network. gsm-watchdog will restart answering-machine if it detects that we are not logged in to network |
| 01:18.41 | rhkfin | needs to go back to studies again :/ 5.5 hours before the exam starts... |
| 01:19.04 | lindi- | rhkfin: SMS question is so common that i'll add it to the web page :P |
| 01:19.10 | rhkfin | ok, nice. Does it drop network often? Because of #1024? |
| 01:19.12 | rhkfin | lindi-: right :) |
| 01:19.18 | rhkfin | answer: 'I don't SMS!'? |
| 01:19.21 | lindi- | mostly yes |
| 01:19.32 | rhkfin | and if you do, you use CLI & dbus .)? |
| 01:19.40 | lindi- | dump-sms reads them, mjr's smsl sends them through saunalahti web page |
| 01:19.47 | rhkfin | heh : |
| 01:19.58 | lindi- | I can't use GSM at work so smsl is very useful |
| 01:20.11 | rhkfin | you use wlan? |
| 01:20.29 | rhkfin | And your asterisk server at home routes the calls to your Freerunner over VoIP :)? |
| 01:20.52 | lindi- | rhkfin: not allowed to use wlan either, I just connect via usb |
| 01:20.57 | rhkfin | ok |
| 01:21.35 | rhkfin | -> .. |
| 01:22.57 | lindi- | gena2x: the problem has been that gsm-watchdog, kapula and answering-machine depend on a lot of custom scripts |
| 01:23.20 | lindi- | gena2x: so it's bit hard to package those |
| 01:24.20 | gena2x | lindi-: i am wonder about whole state of packaging in debian |
| 01:24.56 | gena2x | lindi-: and try kernel with fifo patch, you'll be happy |
| 01:25.33 | gena2x | lindi-: I mean, I installed it, see quite old xorg, old kernel, did saw fso state at this moment. |
| 01:28.15 | lindi- | gena2x: heh. kernel is waiting for mainline inclusion really |
| 01:28.27 | lindi- | gena2x: Xorg is the same Xorg as on all other architectures |
| 01:29.12 | lindi- | gena2x: and fso, well..., is complex and constantly changing to say at least |
| 01:29.33 | gena2x | lindi-: May be it's possible to include some kind of autobuilder |
| 01:29.57 | lindi- | gena2x: that won't help with quality |
| 01:30.18 | gena2x | lindi-: I mean not xorg but glamo driver in particular. |
| 01:30.47 | lindi- | gena2x: you can easily build it from git |
| 01:30.55 | *** join/#openmoko azaghal (n=azaghal@190.228.178.212.adsl.dyn.beotel.net) |
| 01:30.57 | lindi- | gena2x: thanks to the modular architecture of Xorg |
| 01:31.07 | gena2x | lindi-: Ok, I am convinced someone cares about debian on fr :) |
| 01:31.32 | lindi- | gena2x: but i'm using xserver-xorg-video-fbdev since it has been rock solid and is fast enough |
| 01:32.15 | gena2x | lindi-: yes, i've read, and it I'll detect some bugs with glamo I'll do so too. |
| 01:32.25 | lindi- | gena2x: personally i'd like to get rid of ogsmd and get some gsm daemon that aims for reliability as main goal |
| 01:33.24 | gena2x | lindi-: Omg, I just tried screen lock on debian. "really lock screen" funny |
| 01:34.09 | gena2x | i mean funny quest with aux button |
| 01:35.09 | lindi- | gena2x: what screen lock program? |
| 01:36.08 | gena2x | It's hard to say. It displays nothing. I just installed debian and really enjoy it after shr. |
| 01:36.23 | lindi- | gena2x: maybe zhone? |
| 01:37.44 | gena2x | lindi-: no, something near matchbox. |
| 01:38.20 | lindi- | better figure out what software you are running before it takes over your system :P |
| 01:39.04 | gena2x | Agree :). g2g, have fun, I'll continue next weekend or a bit sooner :) |
| 01:41.25 | *** join/#openmoko thegreen4me1 (n=christia@adsl-69-231-113-60.dsl.irvnca.pacbell.net) |
| 01:41.38 | *** join/#openmoko azaghal__ (n=azaghal@91.148.113.79) |
| 01:41.40 | thegreen4me1 | how can I ad a .so file to pidgin? |
| 01:49.27 | *** part/#openmoko thegreen4me1 (n=christia@adsl-69-231-113-60.dsl.irvnca.pacbell.net) |
| 02:02.33 | *** join/#openmoko juan_arandaalvar (n=jaranda@201.171.227.70.dsl.dyn.telnor.net) |
| 02:06.20 | *** join/#openmoko Defiant (i=erik@e179192057.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 02:07.29 | *** join/#openmoko thegreen4me (n=root@166.134.107.85) |
| 02:09.35 | thegreen4me | anyone know how to install the facebook protocol for pidgin? |
| 02:12.24 | ndnihil | spacebook and myface are for high school girls anyway |
| 02:13.14 | SpeedEvil | I think 'get really drunk' must be in there somewhere. |
| 02:24.44 | *** join/#openmoko daMaestro (n=jon@fedora/damaestro) |
| 02:35.05 | *** join/#openmoko juan_arandaalvar (n=jaranda@201.171.227.70.dsl.dyn.telnor.net) |
| 02:46.51 | *** join/#openmoko azaghal (n=azaghal@91.148.112.231) |
| 03:00.46 | *** join/#openmoko thegreen4me (n=root@166.134.134.127) |
| 03:01.28 | *** part/#openmoko thegreen4me (n=root@166.134.134.127) |
| 03:07.49 | *** join/#openmoko fredrin (n=fredrik|@ti0035a340-dhcp0191.bb.online.no) |
| 03:23.43 | *** join/#openmoko Openfree` (n=Openfree@116.228.88.98) |
| 03:27.56 | *** join/#openmoko Gabrys (n=Gabrys@77-253-141-148.adsl.inetia.pl) |
| 03:40.04 | *** join/#openmoko pcfe (n=pcfe@a88-115-28-216.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 03:44.50 | *** join/#openmoko raster_ (n=raster@124-171-44-111.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 04:03.25 | *** join/#openmoko reachfh (n=reachfh@123-204-102-212.adsl.dynamic.seed.net.tw) |
| 04:39.01 | *** join/#openmoko azaghal (n=azaghal@29.229.178.212.adsl.dyn.beotel.net) |
| 04:44.04 | *** join/#openmoko azaghal_ (n=azaghal@91.148.112.122) |
| 04:46.03 | *** join/#openmoko batti112 (n=batti@dslb-092-073-167-011.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 04:54.24 | *** join/#openmoko azaghal_1 (n=azaghal@91.148.114.239) |
| 05:21.19 | *** join/#openmoko azaghal (n=azaghal@132.229.178.212.adsl.dyn.beotel.net) |
| 05:25.21 | *** join/#openmoko vanous123 (n=vanous@ip-85-93-174-26.wscnet.cz) |
| 05:28.16 | *** join/#openmoko Docscrutemp (n=Joerg_rw@200.194.116.85.dsl.manitu.net) |
| 05:43.29 | *** join/#openmoko emacsian (n=ram@122.167.246.214) |
| 05:45.47 | *** join/#openmoko joerg_42 (n=jr-N810@200.194.116.85.dsl.manitu.net) |
| 06:00.09 | *** join/#openmoko emacsian (n=ram@122.167.246.214) |
| 06:01.24 | *** join/#openmoko juan_arandaalvar (n=jaranda@201.171.227.70.dsl.dyn.telnor.net) |
| 06:04.04 | *** join/#openmoko tenzind (n=tenzin@202.144.158.193) |
| 06:05.35 | *** join/#openmoko emacsian (n=ram@122.167.246.214) |
| 06:17.36 | *** join/#openmoko Heinervdm (n=thomas@pD9E14BCF.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 06:18.44 | *** join/#openmoko Cervajz (n=Cervajz@opensuse/member/Cervajz) |
| 06:21.28 | *** join/#openmoko ajvogel (n=quassel@196-210-176-170-rbry-bb-1.dynamic.isadsl.co.za) |
| 06:39.28 | PaulFertser | raster: hey :) |
| 06:39.47 | PaulFertser | raster: can you provide a single example of free software community benefiting from maemo? |
| 06:40.40 | PaulFertser | raster: because to me it seems that maemo is semi-open crappy gui used only on n8x0 without any future or sense. |
| 06:41.38 | raster | PaulFertser: hildon, matchbox, lots of ppl @ nokia paid to work on gtk and make it more embedded-friendly |
| 06:41.53 | raster | matchbox, telepathy... |
| 06:42.21 | *** join/#openmoko jserv-- (n=jserv@61-30-10-70.static.tfn.net.tw) |
| 06:42.47 | PaulFertser | raster: hildon is used nowhere outside maemo. Matchbox is hm, well, was used in gpe. |
| 06:42.48 | raster | xorg benefitted too (nokia paid an xorg developer to work on x) |
| 06:43.02 | PaulFertser | raster: their gtk work was never accepted mainline. |
| 06:43.09 | raster | no it wasnt |
| 06:43.11 | raster | but they tried |
| 06:43.13 | PaulFertser | raster: and xorg work has no direct relation to maemo i think. |
| 06:43.17 | raster | and no some of it has made its way in |
| 06:43.31 | raster | it was directly related as it was part of making a product |
| 06:43.41 | raster | maemo is their name for the software part of the product |
| 06:44.03 | PaulFertser | raster: do you know ofono guys are not going to use telepathy? |
| 06:44.43 | PaulFertser | raster: also i can't see any free software solutions using telepathy interface or else many n900 users would use that. |
| 06:45.01 | raster | phone |
| 06:47.35 | PaulFertser | raster: so, nokia failed to provide any good X org driver for any of their devices. They sponsor bluez development, that's true. They failed to make their gtk improvements appealing to the community, they failed to push n8x0 support mainline and n900 still runs a forked kernel. Ofono, their opensource way to implement telephony is not and is not going to use telepathy. Hildon is a crappy WM nobody wants to use. |
| 06:50.13 | PaulFertser | raster: also despite using telepathy n900 lacks good sip integration oob, afaik, but instead it comes with propritary-spying-shit skype preinstalled. |
| 06:50.31 | PaulFertser | raster: you see? Maemo is not beneficial to the community. |
| 06:51.57 | PaulFertser | Now they abandoned their whole community by switching to Qt, making all previous programs incompatible. |
| 06:56.25 | PaulFertser | Their "maemo distro" is not close enough to upstream, lacks sane upgrade paths. They still use stupid internal bugtracker and bugs.maemo.org is not mandatory to be taken into account for nokia devs. Etc. Etc. |
| 06:59.04 | PaulFertser | So my point is: |
| 06:59.09 | raster | PaulFertser: hildon is not a wm. |
| 06:59.23 | raster | first. (so you're already ignorant of what nokia hs done there) |
| 06:59.26 | PaulFertser | raster: Nokia is using Free Software like a paid whore instead of being a gentle lover. |
| 06:59.42 | raster | teir changes to gtk after much massaging and debating - some have gone in. the community HASA benefitted |
| 07:00.03 | raster | there ARE drivers to make make things work on the omap soc's - thanks to nokia |
| 07:00.09 | raster | with source |
| 07:00.30 | raster | even if 1 SINGLE line of code came out of nokia that improved something thanks to maemo - the cimmunity HAs benefitted |
| 07:01.03 | raster | hell if nokia had NOT produced a single line of code the community benefitted by nokia putting a stamp on linux saying "we consider linux ready for prime-time on consumer devices" |
| 07:01.12 | raster | you have NO idea the power of being able to say "but nokia did X" |
| 07:01.23 | raster | and how suddenyl arguments from other vendors doing the right thing disappear |
| 07:01.32 | raster | maybe you dont see the things nokia has done |
| 07:01.34 | raster | but i do |
| 07:01.42 | raster | i definitely do - and i USE that to good effect. |
| 07:02.19 | raster | i cant tell you everything, but you'll have to trust my word on it that even if a single bit of code never came out of the maemo project and n7xx/8xx/9xx work |
| 07:02.39 | raster | the simple fact of nokia legitimising things have given me a stick to beat people with and change things for the better |
| 07:02.45 | raster | that alone i'm hellishly greatful for. |
| 07:05.08 | raster | nokia funded code and work on matchbox |
| 07:05.23 | raster | hell collabra ands openedhand came into EXISTENCE because of nokia |
| 07:05.31 | raster | thats a chunk of fulltime paid open source developers |
| 07:05.37 | raster | that alone is worth something |
| 07:06.32 | PaulFertser | raster: |
| 07:06.52 | PaulFertser | (hildon) i know that when it is started it provides some stupid gui. When it's not i just use any WM instead. |
| 07:07.54 | raster | hildon is not a wm |
| 07:08.00 | PaulFertser | I see it now. |
| 07:08.05 | raster | its a sten of standards for small screen tablet/phone like devices |
| 07:08.13 | raster | properties, hints etc. etc. |
| 07:08.27 | raster | it definitely has use |
| 07:08.35 | raster | right now its problem is it hasnt gained wide-acceptance |
| 07:08.44 | raster | but nokia havent closed it up and locked it down |
| 07:09.09 | raster | it simply hasnt been of interest to the oss world - mostly because the oss world has no devices that are interestign enoguh |
| 07:09.11 | raster | eg phones |
| 07:09.13 | PaulFertser | raster: will the switch to qt make large parts of hildon obsolete? |
| 07:09.19 | raster | no |
| 07:09.29 | raster | in fact nokia have said they will continue to ship and support gtk |
| 07:09.35 | raster | they will continue to use x11 |
| 07:09.39 | raster | and thus - will continue to use hildon |
| 07:09.45 | raster | they may add more to it |
| 07:09.46 | raster | etc. |
| 07:09.56 | raster | some bits wont work - eg like their plugins in their panel - thats gtk now |
| 07:10.02 | raster | will change for qt not surprisingly |
| 07:10.07 | raster | but apps should continue to work |
| 07:10.28 | raster | i think you have a fundamental misunderstanding of what nokia has actually done |
| 07:10.46 | raster | i may disagree with some of their decisions and technical details |
| 07:10.56 | raster | i may find their web tablets mostly useless and slow |
| 07:11.10 | raster | the n900 is the first of their linux devices that actually is useful |
| 07:11.19 | raster | mostly ebcause it can replace the phone in my pocket |
| 07:11.29 | PaulFertser | raster: look, i'm coming from end-user pov. N810 with stock firmware is unusable. With Mer it's actually more useable but i do not benefit from hildon in any way even while using mer. |
| 07:11.35 | raster | and that gives it a key factor |
| 07:11.41 | *** join/#openmoko objorn (n=objorn@unaffiliated/objorn) |
| 07:11.49 | raster | hahahah |
| 07:11.53 | raster | you do benefit from hildon |
| 07:11.58 | raster | i suggest you look much more closely |
| 07:12.11 | raster | mer ships a hildon-using desktop |
| 07:12.48 | PaulFertser | raster: yes, but what if i use lxde-based desktop instead? |
| 07:12.59 | raster | then u dont |
| 07:13.05 | raster | but you chose not to use what nokia have done |
| 07:13.22 | PaulFertser | Because it's not user-friendly. |
| 07:13.25 | raster | how does YOUR decision for your own personal reasons mean that nokia have not contributed to and benefitted the community (open source community) ? |
| 07:15.20 | PaulFertser | raster: if hildon was great, why guys who worked on iPAQs used matchbox and no hildon? Why no FR folks are using hildon? Why is hildon so clumsy and feels feature-constrained? |
| 07:15.28 | raster | ugh |
| 07:15.39 | raster | the hildon desktop on maemo *USES MATCHBOX* |
| 07:15.53 | raster | HILDON IS A STANDARD not the name of a wm or process |
| 07:16.30 | PaulFertser | raster: sorry for my stupidity... |
| 07:16.45 | PaulFertser | raster: matchbox alone is ok though mad constrained. |
| 07:16.48 | raster | nokia PAID to have matchbox improved and worked on |
| 07:16.59 | raster | ythe COMMUNITY BENEFITTED DIRECTLY from that |
| 07:17.07 | raster | i dont use mb |
| 07:17.11 | raster | its not my style |
| 07:17.27 | raster | but that doesnt mean nokia hasnt contributed - in a tangible and direct way back to open source |
| 07:17.59 | raster | as i said above - i think you have a fundamental misunderstanbding of what maemo is, what nokia has done, and what things like hildon etc. are. |
| 07:17.59 | PaulFertser | raster: but hildon is there for quite some time. Why GPE wasn't hildon-based? Ok, it used matchbox-wm but that seems to be about it, nothing more? |
| 07:18.27 | *** join/#openmoko radekp (n=radek@63.120.broadband10.iol.cz) |
| 07:18.31 | raster | until you clear that up i dont think you are in a position to poo-poo nokia for "just using open source as a whore and not contributing" because nokia damne well has contributed and they deserve respect for that. |
| 07:18.45 | raster | gpe pre-dates hildon |
| 07:18.55 | raster | and the gpe guys seemingly dont want to dpot some or all of it |
| 07:18.57 | *** join/#openmoko dns53 (n=dns@202.124.89.40) |
| 07:18.58 | raster | ask the gpe guys |
| 07:19.12 | PaulFertser | raster: gpe is ~dead i assume. |
| 07:19.32 | raster | thats likely why it hasnt |
| 07:20.11 | raster | as "gtk embedded ui" BECAME the nokia maemo/hildon ui |
| 07:20.19 | raster | all the people working on gpe jumped over there |
| 07:20.27 | raster | as now it was actually being funded. |
| 07:20.48 | raster | nokia HIREd a bunch of gnome/gtk developers |
| 07:20.54 | raster | and paid them to work on maemo/hildon |
| 07:21.04 | raster | thats they the en-masse quit when nokia bought trolltech |
| 07:21.11 | PaulFertser | raster: so is hildon a set of gtk+ extensions plus some gui bits (control panel, app manager etc)? |
| 07:21.11 | raster | they simply didnt want to become qt coders |
| 07:21.23 | raster | they were not just generic nokia enigneers who work on whatever technology they are told to |
| 07:21.58 | raster | hildon is a set of hints and standards to allow apps to do things like provide a master menu for the app thats outside the app window |
| 07:22.06 | raster | as well as other hints and properties |
| 07:22.24 | raster | nokia provided a desktop around these standards with actual apps using them to implement the ui |
| 07:22.30 | raster | i personally dont like the ui they built |
| 07:22.44 | raster | but i wont go poo-poo them for not contributing to open source - because they did. |
| 07:22.57 | raster | credit where credit is due. |
| 07:23.11 | PaulFertser | raster: i see now. Thanks for elaborating this. |
| 07:24.00 | PaulFertser | raster: probably i'm just too frustrated by the actual results: unusable n8x0 tablets and non-free maemo development model and sucky "maemo community". |
| 07:24.07 | doc|home | why do you even think nokia have to "contribute" more than is useful to them? |
| 07:24.12 | raster | that i can understand |
| 07:24.44 | raster | i agree on the ui and desktop. to me i think they have done some odd things and not necessarily made things more usable |
| 07:24.48 | raster | but they did some good things |
| 07:24.56 | doc|home | most opensource is "scratch your own itch" |
| 07:24.57 | raster | they have legitimised using debian and packages |
| 07:24.58 | PaulFertser | raster: also probably i'm expressing it all a bit more harsh just to flame up the discussion a little to provoke more insightful answers ;) |
| 07:25.20 | raster | u have no idea how hard it is to combat the mentality of "an embedded os is one fine-tuned blob of binaries u install all in one or nothing": |
| 07:25.35 | raster | as opposed to gettinginto peoples heads that devices are more and more becoming mini-pc's |
| 07:25.42 | raster | and u'll need security updates and bug fixes for every element |
| 07:25.58 | raster | and u dont want to ship whole new flash-images for every bug in zlib, evas, glibc, kernel, etc. etc. |
| 07:26.06 | raster | nokia made my life easier there. |
| 07:26.09 | PaulFertser | raster: still nokia uses monolithic updates in some insane (SSU?) way. |
| 07:26.11 | raster | that alone is worth something |
| 07:26.12 | doc|home | the n900 might well be what I hoped the freerunner v5 or so would eventually become (albeit still not quite as open) |
| 07:26.13 | *** join/#openmoko beers (n=beer@fw.agrsci.dk) |
| 07:26.21 | raster | nokia used to do monolithic systems |
| 07:26.28 | raster | single deb package that was "base" |
| 07:26.32 | raster | they have learned that lesson |
| 07:26.45 | raster | for maemo5 its much more just "debian" - ie lots of packages |
| 07:27.34 | raster | again 0- nokia, but showing a real comoany with real products having to churn out a non-community commercially supported os, have made my life easy in convincing people that just "following standards and not inventing your whole own world for no good reason" is the way to go |
| 07:28.49 | PaulFertser | raster: i'm very glad to hear that. That alone makes nokia look better in my eyes. |
| 07:29.34 | raster | yup |
| 07:29.40 | raster | respect where respect is due |
| 07:29.42 | PaulFertser | raster: really, great thanks for elaborations. |
| 07:29.51 | *** join/#openmoko Batchy (n=batchy@AVelizy-155-1-65-185.w86-217.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 07:30.09 | raster | simply legitimising a better way of doing things that makes *OUR* lives as oss developers and users easier... is worth something to the community |
| 07:31.40 | PaulFertser | raster: i see... But from an end-user pov the process and attitude nokia has with its customers is mad frustrating. Internal/external bugtracker "controversy" alone can give one headaches. |
| 07:33.34 | raster | every company will have such issu4es |
| 07:33.41 | raster | companyes are not open source projects |
| 07:33.53 | raster | u will need to deal with it and be gentle and guide them into a better way of working |
| 07:34.51 | PaulFertser | raster: also it's unfun to hear them talking about "opensounce" and "maemo community" every now and then but in fact controlling maemo development fully from the inside. Also plain lies about "dangerous LiIon is the reason to keep battery control proprietary" are freaking me out. |
| 07:35.02 | *** join/#openmoko vanous123 (n=vanous@robe.ludik.cz) |
| 07:35.21 | raster | thats what openmoko did |
| 07:35.25 | raster | and its what every company will do |
| 07:35.58 | raster | just be happy u get source coee and the freedom to go "well i dont like what you ship and i know i cant change it in your products as they come out of the box.. but damnit. i CAN change it myself here!" |
| 07:36.44 | PaulFertser | raster: easier said than done. Mer was struggling to get something fully-functional for several years already and it's still not there. |
| 07:36.48 | raster | mind u the battery thing is a little odd |
| 07:36.59 | raster | thats just silly |
| 07:37.12 | raster | but in the end - u still cant say nokia hasnt contributed |
| 07:37.21 | PaulFertser | raster: yup, i got your point. |
| 07:37.29 | raster | nokia has helped *ME* a lot in trying to improve things |
| 07:37.32 | raster | just wait and see |
| 07:37.39 | PaulFertser | :)) i do wait |
| 07:37.55 | raster | (sorry that i have to keep saying wait - but it'll be worth it) |
| 07:38.26 | PaulFertser | raster: though probably i would be frustrated as well because i'm like too stupid to think about high-level stuff and low-level stuff is usually closed anyway. |
| 07:38.42 | PaulFertser | raster: will the magical thing have USB host? |
| 07:39.05 | raster | wait and see |
| 07:39.54 | PaulFertser | raster: wish you best of luck |
| 07:40.11 | raster | i can tell you that |
| 07:40.14 | raster | 1. i'm excited |
| 07:40.45 | raster | 2. i'm doing my best to make sure as much of the core os is open source as can possibly be done |
| 07:41.04 | raster | 3. i dont believe it is the RIGHT for users to demand that the maker produce open-source ui apps |
| 07:41.07 | *** join/#openmoko geaaru (n=geaaru@host143-209-dynamic.50-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 07:41.17 | raster | eg dialler, contacts, etc. etc. i dont believe have to be open |
| 07:41.23 | raster | ui DO believe core compentns must be |
| 07:41.28 | raster | err components |
| 07:41.50 | raster | eg toolkit, libc's, power management, telephony, xserver, wm, etc. |
| 07:41.58 | *** join/#openmoko Daramarak (n=user@138.80-203-148.nextgentel.com) |
| 07:42.07 | raster | contact management/storage |
| 07:42.15 | raster | should be open |
| 07:42.18 | raster | as well |
| 07:42.25 | raster | if they choose to make their own closed music player |
| 07:42.27 | raster | or dialler |
| 07:42.39 | raster | or whatever - thats their choice. it's what makes their product uniquely theirs out of the box |
| 07:43.03 | raster | but as the core is open, you, as an open source user/develoepr can replace any element u dont like/agree with and no one is standing in your way |
| 07:43.50 | raster | i may not succeed on making everything core open - but i damned well am trying. it's hard to make a 10000 pound gorilla stop and change direction if u just stand and yell at him. |
| 07:43.51 | raster | :) |
| 07:44.15 | PaulFertser | raster: sounds great. You're awesome, no kidding. |
| 07:44.37 | raster | i suspect the battle for opennes will take years and iteratins of multiple products |
| 07:45.09 | raster | if they are successful even if open - this legitimizes the open strategy and will help put more pressure on more bits to be open. |
| 07:45.31 | raster | i also am concerned with re-distributability of closed blobs |
| 07:45.35 | raster | eg wifi firmware blobs |
| 07:45.40 | raster | telephony firmware blobs |
| 07:45.46 | raster | opengl libs/driver blobs |
| 07:46.13 | Daramarak | Does the SHR-Lock screen have problems displaying the network status? Illume and the lockscreen shows different network statuses (lock screen says disabled and Illume says that the signal is fine) |
| 07:46.15 | raster | things u may end up stuck with as closed blobs - whatever they are i'd push for re-distribution rights |
| 07:46.34 | raster | ie so u can at least create an usable os image and ship these needed blobs with it so it works |
| 07:47.24 | PaulFertser | Sounds like the most sane strategy possible. |
| 07:47.57 | PaulFertser | For someone intending to produce a mass-product appealing to non-geeks. |
| 07:48.28 | raster | i'd like it to appeal to geeks and non-geeks |
| 07:49.03 | raster | the non-geeks are going to ensure 1. its affordable, 2. it has good hw (fast cpu, gpu, nice screen, 3g etc.), 3. is actually avilable and supported in multiple countries |
| 07:49.23 | raster | the geeks will hopefully provide an interesting ecosystem attached |
| 07:49.31 | PaulFertser | raster: i mean many hackers would like to have something like GLOW or a sane version of freerunner. |
| 07:50.08 | raster | glow? |
| 07:50.36 | PaulFertser | Hm, i forgot the name. Flow? |
| 07:50.51 | PaulFertser | It's a beagle-board based open phone. |
| 07:50.55 | raster | oooh that build-your-own phone from parts? |
| 07:51.21 | PaulFertser | Yes |
| 07:53.21 | PaulFertser | raster: but i agree, the benefits of having a device appealing to non-geeks are huge, no doubt. |
| 07:53.41 | raster | u get better compontents, better looks, for cheaper |
| 07:53.45 | raster | so its a tradeoff |
| 07:53.52 | raster | in the end u also have telcos |
| 07:54.02 | raster | telcos will want to resell device with a subsidy |
| 07:54.10 | raster | and in return for that they will want it locked down |
| 07:54.19 | raster | so the $100 or $200 device is always subsidised |
| 07:54.20 | PaulFertser | If i hated anyone, i'd probably hate telcos :) |
| 07:54.23 | raster | and well - u give up freedoms |
| 07:54.32 | raster | if there is the option of a full price device not from the telco |
| 07:54.43 | raster | (direct from manufacturer but buyable online or off the shelf) |
| 07:54.46 | raster | that isnt locked |
| 07:54.55 | raster | eg for $500 or $600 or $700 |
| 07:55.03 | raster | then u can keep the geeks happy |
| 07:55.21 | raster | if u want an unlocked "freedom" device - u pay the actual cost of it |
| 07:55.28 | raster | no susidy, but... you CAN do it |
| 07:55.33 | raster | as opposed to have no choice |
| 07:55.48 | PaulFertser | raster: btw, is Harald still participating in the samsung mainlining (and understanding mainline process/phylosophy) effort? Are you allowed to tell that? |
| 07:56.07 | raster | i think tho |
| 07:56.11 | raster | i think so |
| 07:56.15 | raster | tho thats is samsung lsi |
| 07:56.19 | raster | i work with samsung dmc |
| 07:56.26 | raster | different companies |
| 07:56.35 | raster | (like hp vs intel) |
| 07:57.07 | PaulFertser | Heh, i still can't get used to it. |
| 07:57.10 | *** join/#openmoko emacsian (n=ram@122.167.89.156) |
| 07:59.25 | raster | welcome to asian congolmerates |
| 07:59.38 | raster | in the west often companeis are owned by the same holding company/parent |
| 07:59.41 | raster | but thats hidden |
| 07:59.48 | raster | in asian they wear it like a proud badge |
| 07:59.52 | raster | in asia |
| 08:00.00 | raster | especially japan/korea |
| 08:00.09 | raster | but they literally are separate companies that often compete |
| 08:00.19 | raster | or at the minimum then just dont co-operate well |
| 08:00.26 | raster | eg u buy ram or cpu's from samsung lsi |
| 08:00.28 | raster | if u are samsung dmc |
| 08:00.36 | raster | or u are hp or dell - u get treated the same |
| 08:03.26 | PaulFertser | raster: on an unrelated note: i asked local digital aqusition board manufacturer to provide me with low-level info so i can write a driver for one of their DAQ pci boards. They sent me windows driver source the same day :) |
| 08:03.44 | raster | nice |
| 08:03.48 | raster | tho what license? |
| 08:04.35 | PaulFertser | raster: windows driver source is not licensed in any way and i didn't sign anything. I assume i'm supposed to not disclose it still. |
| 08:05.09 | raster | that means u have no license to use it |
| 08:05.12 | *** join/#openmoko rmoravcik (n=rmoravci@adsl-dyn120.78-98-95.t-com.sk) |
| 08:05.15 | raster | distribute it |
| 08:05.18 | *** part/#openmoko rmoravcik (n=rmoravci@adsl-dyn120.78-98-95.t-com.sk) |
| 08:05.21 | raster | or any binaries made from it - until you have one |
| 08:05.24 | raster | they retain full copyright |
| 08:05.26 | raster | :( |
| 08:05.47 | PaulFertser | raster: yes. But i do not need to. Nobody needs. I'm encouraged to write a regular GPL'd linux driver. |
| 08:06.57 | raster | using their source as a bae would violate their copyright |
| 08:07.04 | raster | if u simply use it to know how the hw works |
| 08:07.07 | raster | then u might be ok |
| 08:07.27 | *** join/#openmoko polaru (n=polaru@93.113.192.70) |
| 08:08.10 | *** join/#openmoko everslick (n=clemens@212-183-114-72.adsl.highway.telekom.at) |
| 08:09.28 | *** join/#openmoko morphis (n=morphis@p5489F821.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 08:11.11 | *** join/#openmoko thannoy (n=thannoy@62.160.20.144) |
| 08:12.00 | *** join/#openmoko ZaPPaS (n=moritz@weinberg.pi5.physik.uni-stuttgart.de) |
| 08:17.50 | *** join/#openmoko manitu (n=werner@p578b0cfb.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 08:19.54 | *** join/#openmoko dns53 (n=dns@202.124.88.224) |
| 08:29.39 | *** join/#openmoko pespin (n=Sharwin_@cisne-cn13.upc.es) |
| 08:31.11 | Daramarak | is there a good terminal command that can tell me about the telephony status on fso? Do I have to use 10-mile long dbus calls? |
| 08:36.14 | joerg_42 | Daramarak: I fear yes, dbus is the only way |
| 08:36.33 | Daramarak | Ouch :) |
| 08:37.24 | joerg_42 | moooes at raster and PaulFertser |
| 08:37.33 | *** join/#openmoko choc (i=natas@gateway/shell/xzibition.com/x-vtejystcknvruace) |
| 08:37.36 | *** join/#openmoko wd_ (n=wd@in.soviet.russia.brains.suxx.us) |
| 08:39.21 | tomcatek | Daramarak: You can always make an alias |
| 08:40.03 | Daramarak | tomcatek: I will :) When I find a reliable way to make sure that the gsm is connected and well |
| 08:40.33 | lindi- | Daramarak: I use dbus-send --system --print-reply --dest=org.freesmartphone.ogsmd /org/freesmartphone/GSM/Device org.freesmartphone.GSM.Debug.DebugCommand $'string:AT+COPS?\r\n' |
| 08:40.41 | lindi- | Daramarak: and AT+CPIN? |
| 08:40.53 | lindi- | Daramarak: .. peridically from a watchdog process |
| 08:41.04 | Daramarak | lindi-: what does those two AT commands do? |
| 08:41.26 | lindi- | Daramarak: check that we are logged in to the network and that SIM card is happy |
| 08:42.07 | Daramarak | are there a good site for looking up AT commands? |
| 08:42.20 | lindi- | Daramarak: the gsm specs |
| 08:42.40 | lindi- | Daramarak: http://www.3gpp.org/ftp/Specs/archive/07_series/07.10/ |
| 08:42.54 | DocScrutinizer51 | of course you can kick off mickeyterm and talk AT directly |
| 08:44.15 | Daramarak | DocScrutinizer51: thanks for the tip |
| 08:45.01 | lindi- | DocScrutinizer51: will that work if you have a gprs connection? |
| 08:45.41 | lindi- | DocScrutinizer51: I just get 'dbus.exceptions.DBusException: org.freesmartphone.GSM.MUX.NoChannel: All channels are used' |
| 08:45.51 | DocScrutinizer51 | no, as then all 4 channels are occupied |
| 08:45.52 | Daramarak | lindi-: You gave me a link to a zipped msoffice document :P |
| 08:46.03 | lindi- | Daramarak: yep those are word files |
| 08:46.12 | lindi- | Daramarak: I downloaded them all and converted to plaintext |
| 08:46.21 | *** join/#openmoko Superevildeath (n=pot|deat@212.206.209.177) |
| 08:46.22 | lindi- | Daramarak: then it's easy to grep |
| 08:47.04 | DocScrutinizer51 | yeah those morons |
| 08:48.14 | Daramarak | lindi-: I will have to do that too, no way Ill browse documentation in word - or even open office. |
| 08:48.40 | lindi- | it's only 14M in plaintext :) |
| 08:48.47 | *** join/#openmoko dns53 (n=dns@ppp246-215.static.internode.on.net) |
| 08:50.24 | *** join/#openmoko Kame2 (n=manuel@port-92-196-119-234.dynamic.qsc.de) |
| 08:51.47 | *** join/#openmoko Gabrys (n=Gabrys@cxp210.internetdsl.tpnet.pl) |
| 08:54.21 | Daramarak | lindy-: The dbus commands gave me what I wanted to know now atleast. Seems like my network connection is fine, even though the SHR-lock screen says something else. |
| 08:54.27 | *** join/#openmoko nullix (n=philippe@92.103.174.253) |
| 08:55.49 | lindi- | Daramarak: this is exactly why my watchdog uses such a low level access :) |
| 08:58.16 | Daramarak | lindi-: Yep , writing an quick script to do this now... |
| 08:58.27 | *** join/#openmoko emacsian1 (n=ram@122.167.89.156) |
| 08:59.02 | PaulFertser | raster: even if i wanted i couldn't use their clumsy c++ source in the linux driver :) And the point is moot anyway, they actually want me to write a driver since they lack skills and motivation to do it themselves :) |
| 08:59.23 | PaulFertser | Daramarak: boo :) |
| 08:59.52 | lindi- | Daramarak: what does it do? |
| 09:02.26 | Daramarak | lindi-: only run those two commands and display the results. That is all I need I think. |
| 09:02.35 | lindi- | ok |
| 09:03.51 | Daramarak | lindi-: With the openmoko I sometimes gets paranoid, I get the feeling that some one is trying to contact me, and want to make sure that everything is ok with the phone. And when I cannot trust what the gui is telling me, I need something else. |
| 09:04.09 | lindi- | Daramarak: you might want to use gsm-watchdog :) |
| 09:04.37 | Daramarak | lindi-: Actually yes i might. |
| 09:04.59 | lindi- | Daramarak: iki.fi/lindi/openmoko/gsm-watchdog but it's not ready to be packaged yet |
| 09:05.16 | lindi- | Daramarak: just a draft that works for me |
| 09:07.10 | *** join/#openmoko beers (n=beer@fw.agrsci.dk) |
| 09:07.57 | DocScrutinizer51 | Daramarak: I feel with you fella |
| 09:09.32 | *** join/#openmoko alfatangoxt (n=michele@95.235.207.81) |
| 09:11.38 | *** join/#openmoko master_main (n=master_m@p578b0cfb.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 09:11.52 | Daramarak | DocScrutinizer51: Yes we are probably not alone. But at least I can do something with my problem. My gf has a cellphone that sometimes just stops accepting phonecalls, but she doesnt know until some actually meets her and tells her. There are no scripts helping her :) |
| 09:12.33 | Daramarak | lindi-: This actually flashes the led when the connection is gone?! |
| 09:13.02 | *** join/#openmoko N-Mi (n=nicolas@calvix/staff/N-Mi) |
| 09:15.54 | *** join/#openmoko pespin (n=Sharwin_@cisne-cn11.upc.es) |
| 09:20.08 | *** join/#openmoko naquan (n=naquan@118.68.248.133) |
| 09:24.48 | *** join/#openmoko pa4wdh (n=pa4wdh@lt30598-lnx.ipv6.pa4wdh.nl.eu.org) |
| 09:26.00 | lindi- | Daramarak: yes |
| 09:26.51 | Daramarak | lindi-: cool, it is now placed in my init.d folder for safe keeping :) |
| 09:28.23 | Daramarak | lindi-: any problems I should be aware of, might it cause my FR to emit smokesignals or run a DDOS attack at whitehouse.gov? |
| 09:28.52 | lindi- | Daramarak: well you need ledctrl |
| 09:29.28 | lindi- | Daramarak: and it assumes /etc/init.d/ogsmd |
| 09:29.36 | lindi- | Daramarak: and also that you run answering-machine |
| 09:30.31 | Daramarak | lindi-: must ogsmd be run before gsm-watchdog? |
| 09:30.49 | lindi- | Daramarak: doesn't matter |
| 09:30.57 | lindi- | Daramarak: since gsm-watchdog will restart it if it is not working :) |
| 09:31.04 | Daramarak | lindi-: ok |
| 09:32.46 | Daramarak | lindi-: I do not have ledctrl, where can I get that? |
| 09:33.00 | *** join/#openmoko valos (n=valos@coquelicot-adsl.easter-eggs.com) |
| 09:34.23 | lindi- | Daramarak: iki.fi/lindi/git/ledctrl |
| 09:34.31 | lindi- | Daramarak: but it's being merged to libomhacks |
| 09:37.02 | *** join/#openmoko pb__ (n=pb@85.210.12.93) |
| 09:40.28 | Daramarak | lindi-: So currently I have a script that just fails to blink with the leds :) |
| 09:45.24 | lindi- | Daramarak: heh |
| 09:47.17 | *** join/#openmoko Free_maN (n=Free_maN@217.174.199.201) |
| 09:49.49 | *** join/#openmoko Heinervdm (n=thomas@pD9E14BCF.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 10:00.30 | *** join/#openmoko emacsian1 (n=ram@122.167.66.228) |
| 10:07.27 | *** join/#openmoko ajvogel (n=quassel@196-210-176-170-rbry-bb-1.dynamic.isadsl.co.za) |
| 10:29.06 | *** join/#openmoko zedstar (n=john@fsf/member/zedstar) |
| 10:34.33 | *** join/#openmoko bentob0x (n=laurent@ip-213-49-80-75.dsl.scarlet.be) |
| 11:05.37 | *** join/#openmoko Cervajz (n=Cervajz@opensuse/member/Cervajz) |
| 11:17.08 | *** join/#openmoko methril|work (n=methril@127.Red-80-38-102.staticIP.rima-tde.net) |
| 11:18.15 | *** join/#openmoko Ghiottone (n=ale@host134-161-dynamic.49-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 11:27.10 | *** join/#openmoko raster (n=raster@enlightenment/developer/raster) |
| 11:28.13 | *** join/#openmoko dvermd (n=roudoudo@78.234.93.192) |
| 11:31.31 | *** join/#openmoko thrashold (n=europan@3mhz.net) |
| 11:39.18 | *** join/#openmoko mjr (i=mjr@aulis.sange.fi) |
| 11:39.35 | *** join/#openmoko emacsian (n=ram@122.167.66.228) |
| 11:58.03 | *** join/#openmoko SeligArkin (i=selig@wenduri.darkdna.net) |
| 12:04.34 | *** join/#openmoko panicking (i=michael@eduroambiblio3-9.eduroam.uv.es) |
| 12:05.03 | panicking | Hi PaulFertser |
| 12:05.13 | panicking | do you know if there is an offset in sms delete |
| 12:05.15 | panicking | command |
| 12:05.24 | panicking | so when I try to delete an sms on the sim |
| 12:05.26 | panicking | MUX[primary]: AT> AT+CMGD=5,0 |
| 12:05.26 | panicking | D/AT ( 892): MUX[primary]: AT< +CMS ERROR: 4 |
| 12:05.36 | panicking | it gives me the CMS ERROR 4 |
| 12:06.02 | lindi- | panicking: what does iki.fi/lindi/openmoko/dump-sms print as the indexes? |
| 12:08.09 | panicking | Ok, but I need to install a standard version |
| 12:08.13 | panicking | to have the index right |
| 12:08.17 | panicking | ? |
| 12:08.27 | panicking | I have readed that there is an offset of 1 |
| 12:08.33 | panicking | in phonebook location |
| 12:08.40 | panicking | it refers to index to |
| 12:08.43 | panicking | so 0 is 1 |
| 12:08.46 | panicking | 1 is 2 |
| 12:10.40 | PaulFertser | panicking: sorry, no idea |
| 12:10.59 | panicking | ok, I'm going to check |
| 12:11.09 | panicking | if there is some index problem |
| 12:11.12 | panicking | during sms import |
| 12:25.14 | *** join/#openmoko raster (n=raster@enlightenment/developer/raster) |
| 12:31.00 | *** join/#openmoko vanous123 (n=vanous@ip-85-161-209-143.eurotel.cz) |
| 12:38.04 | *** join/#openmoko Docscrutemp (n=Joerg_rw@82.113.121.219) |
| 12:38.08 | *** join/#openmoko Kame2 (n=manuel@port-92-196-116-47.dynamic.qsc.de) |
| 12:46.11 | *** join/#openmoko pbaxter (n=pbaxter@host37-136-dynamic.2-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 12:48.03 | *** join/#openmoko Docscrutemp (n=Joerg_rw@p57AF7DC0.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 12:59.08 | *** join/#openmoko ZaPPaS (n=moritz@weinberg.pi5.physik.uni-stuttgart.de) |
| 13:10.21 | *** join/#openmoko Openfree|H (n=Openfree@222.65.96.137) |
| 13:14.00 | *** join/#openmoko chihchun (n=nnnnnnch@u7.hlc.edu.tw) |
| 13:23.10 | *** join/#openmoko PaulFertser (n=PaulFert@mail.nixl.net) |
| 13:24.38 | *** join/#openmoko tomcatek (n=tomcatek@078088161149.elblag.vectranet.pl) |
| 13:42.06 | *** join/#openmoko pbaxter (n=pbaxter@host94-8-dynamic.9-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 13:44.32 | *** join/#openmoko Bane^ (i=bane@shelli.fi) |
| 13:47.59 | *** join/#openmoko Kame2 (n=manuel@port-92-196-99-14.dynamic.qsc.de) |
| 13:52.55 | *** join/#openmoko arw_ (i=foobar@201.244.107.181) |
| 14:04.02 | *** join/#openmoko AntonTakk (n=AntonTak@poolofdespair.net) |
| 14:04.42 | *** part/#openmoko AntonTakk (n=AntonTak@poolofdespair.net) |
| 14:07.02 | *** join/#openmoko dvermd (n=roudoudo@78.234.93.192) |
| 14:11.45 | *** join/#openmoko Docscrutemp (n=Joerg_rw@216.121.113.82.net.de.o2.com) |
| 14:12.24 | *** join/#openmoko Docscrutemp (n=Joerg_rw@216.121.113.82.net.de.o2.com) |
| 14:15.06 | *** join/#openmoko amarsh04 (n=amarsh04@ppp118-210-249-193.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net) |
| 14:16.50 | *** join/#openmoko nullix (n=philippe@92.103.174.253) |
| 14:21.14 | *** join/#openmoko Docscrutemp (n=Joerg_rw@200.194.116.85.dsl.manitu.net) |
| 14:25.37 | *** join/#openmoko jonkristian (n=jonkrist@174.84-48-204.nextgentel.com) |
| 14:28.50 | *** join/#openmoko emacsian (n=ram@122.167.66.228) |
| 14:37.32 | *** join/#openmoko Docscrutemp (n=Joerg_rw@82.113.121.222) |
| 14:39.44 | *** join/#openmoko Docscrutemp (n=Joerg_rw@82.113.121.222) |
| 14:44.36 | *** join/#openmoko radekp (n=radek@88.146.48.30) |
| 14:45.32 | *** join/#openmoko mps (n=mpr@aggr.com) |
| 14:49.48 | *** join/#openmoko N-Mi (n=nicolas@calvix/staff/N-Mi) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 14:49.48 | *** join/#openmoko master_main (n=master_m@p578b0cfb.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 14:49.48 | *** join/#openmoko jserv-- (n=jserv@61-30-10-70.static.tfn.net.tw) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 14:49.48 | *** join/#openmoko batti112 (n=batti@dslb-092-073-167-011.pools.arcor-ip.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 14:49.48 | *** join/#openmoko mwester (n=mwester@nslu2-linux/mwester) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 14:49.48 | *** join/#openmoko SpeedEvil (n=user@tor/regular/SpeedEvil) |
| 14:49.48 | *** join/#openmoko larsc (n=lars@rzdspc10.informatik.uni-hamburg.de) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 14:49.48 | *** join/#openmoko Basheri (i=basher@hehz.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 14:49.48 | *** join/#openmoko Vegar (n=vegar@unaffiliated/vegar) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 14:49.48 | *** join/#openmoko krau (n=krau@bombadil.infradead.org) |
| 14:49.48 | *** join/#openmoko olv (n=olvaffe@114.32.50.70) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 14:49.48 | *** join/#openmoko t0h (i=thelinev@nikita.tnnet.fi) |
| 14:49.48 | *** join/#openmoko Kayin (i=mverstee@shell2.skyberate.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 14:49.48 | *** join/#openmoko _diego__ (n=diego@host-78-14-231-185.cust-adsl.tiscali.it) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 14:49.48 | *** join/#openmoko rhkfin (i=rhk@ubuntu/member/rhkfin) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 14:49.48 | *** join/#openmoko ixs (i=andreas@lacht.ueber.gattinnen-im-netz.de) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 14:49.48 | *** join/#openmoko ndnihil (n=nihil@unaffiliated/ndnihil) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 14:49.48 | *** join/#openmoko catsup (n=d@ip-414b12e3.ct.fixed.ntplx.com) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 14:50.33 | *** join/#openmoko Docscrutemp (n=Joerg_rw@82.113.121.222) |
| 14:51.31 | *** join/#openmoko mpr (n=mpr@aggr.com) |
| 14:52.29 | *** join/#openmoko Docscrutemp (n=Joerg_rw@82.113.121.222) |
| 14:52.47 | *** join/#openmoko nomeata (i=nobody@nomeata.de) |
| 14:53.28 | *** join/#openmoko panicking (i=michael@eduroambiblio3-9.eduroam.uv.es) |
| 14:55.22 | *** join/#openmoko pa4wdh (n=pa4wdh@lt30598-lnx.ipv6.pa4wdh.nl.eu.org) |
| 14:57.46 | *** part/#openmoko emacsian (n=ram@122.167.66.228) |
| 14:57.55 | *** join/#openmoko Docscrutemp (n=Joerg_rw@200.194.116.85.dsl.manitu.net) |
| 15:04.43 | *** join/#openmoko der-lehmann (n=stefan@188-192-133-169-dynip.superkabel.de) |
| 15:07.01 | *** join/#openmoko mnt_real (n=sinan@bas12-montrealak-1167974851.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 15:07.13 | *** join/#openmoko fsteinel (n=fsteinel@fedora/fsteinel) |
| 15:09.47 | *** join/#openmoko vanous123 (n=vanous@70.23.broadband11.iol.cz) |
| 15:10.02 | *** part/#openmoko vanous123 (n=vanous@70.23.broadband11.iol.cz) |
| 15:10.21 | *** join/#openmoko chomwitt (n=chomwitt@ppp-94-66-133-43.home.otenet.gr) |
| 15:16.52 | *** join/#openmoko vanous1231 (n=vanous@70.23.broadband11.iol.cz) |
| 15:17.36 | *** part/#openmoko vanous1231 (n=vanous@70.23.broadband11.iol.cz) |
| 15:23.07 | *** join/#openmoko Sup3rkiddo (n=sudharsh@unaffiliated/sudharsh) |
| 15:27.23 | *** join/#openmoko vanous123 (n=vanous@70.23.broadband11.iol.cz) |
| 15:35.30 | *** join/#openmoko vanous1231 (n=vanous@70.23.broadband11.iol.cz) |
| 15:37.07 | *** join/#openmoko EdSwarthout (n=ed@70.114.141.31) |
| 15:41.42 | *** join/#openmoko mani|work (n=werner@p578b0cfb.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 15:49.21 | *** join/#openmoko pa4wdh (n=pa4wdh@lt30598-lnx.ipv6.pa4wdh.nl.eu.org) |
| 15:50.41 | *** join/#openmoko CVirus (n=Satan@41.130.233.191) |
| 15:55.23 | *** join/#openmoko werner__ (n=werner@p578b0cfb.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 15:57.14 | *** join/#openmoko gargoyle-grin (n=randerso@gentoo/contributor/gargoyle-grin) |
| 16:08.46 | *** join/#openmoko everslick (n=clemens@91-114-177-170.adsl.highway.telekom.at) |
| 16:16.28 | *** join/#openmoko Ryback_ (n=ulisses@enlightenment/developer/ryback) |
| 16:17.12 | *** join/#openmoko trev_ (n=tobi@95-89-145-88-dynip.superkabel.de) |
| 16:27.27 | *** join/#openmoko azaghal_ (n=azaghal@91.148.113.196) |
| 16:32.17 | *** join/#openmoko messerting (n=messerti@cm-84.208.182.112.getinternet.no) |
| 16:32.45 | *** join/#openmoko sirkha_top (n=sirkha@mobile-166-217-072-021.mycingular.net) |
| 16:33.30 | sirkha_top | hi, i am trying to get android on my phone, and uboot is giving me Bad Data CRC, i saw the entry on the wiki, with the setenv, stuff, but i am not sure where to run that |
| 16:37.23 | *** join/#openmoko kkb110 (n=kkb110@pool-173-59-51-194.phlapa.fios.verizon.net) |
| 16:42.52 | *** join/#openmoko eolson (n=eolson@maze.mcs.anl.gov) |
| 16:46.48 | panicking | sirkha_top, the image |
| 16:46.50 | panicking | is to big |
| 16:46.59 | panicking | so when u-boot read just read the first part |
| 16:47.09 | panicking | you must increase in the enviroment variable of u-boot |
| 16:47.14 | panicking | the loadable image size |
| 16:47.19 | panicking | and this is do the trick |
| 16:47.22 | panicking | if you use android |
| 16:47.37 | panicking | can you join in the #android-on-freerunner |
| 16:54.20 | *** join/#openmoko Undrwater (n=russell@pool-74-100-99-39.lsanca.fios.verizon.net) |
| 17:02.32 | *** join/#openmoko arw_ (i=foobar@201.244.202.85) |
| 17:04.25 | *** join/#openmoko choc (i=natas@gateway/shell/xzibition.com/x-yzwipetulcfgznxb) |
| 17:06.52 | *** join/#openmoko Zorkman (n=Man@78-22-123-127.access.telenet.be) |
| 17:10.42 | *** join/#openmoko choc (i=natas@gateway/shell/xzibition.com/x-nhpzkjljlvawfbmj) |
| 17:13.49 | *** join/#openmoko toi (n=toi@d54C2A96D.access.telenet.be) |
| 17:17.05 | *** join/#openmoko choc (i=natas@gateway/shell/xzibition.com/x-mhhllfmavkaafdsi) |
| 17:17.38 | *** join/#openmoko _cb^ (n=validuse@AMontsouris-551-1-67-42.w90-24.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 17:21.30 | *** join/#openmoko samgee (n=samgee@fsf/member/samgee) |
| 17:21.41 | *** join/#openmoko pespin (n=Sharwin_@170.pool85-50-93.dynamic.orange.es) |
| 17:25.21 | *** join/#openmoko playya__ (n=playya@unaffiliated/playya) |
| 17:36.49 | *** join/#openmoko rafiki (i=rafiki@anapnea.net) |
| 17:47.39 | *** join/#openmoko UndrWater (n=Russell_@pool-74-100-99-39.lsanca.fios.verizon.net) |
| 17:55.25 | *** join/#openmoko nielsle (n=nielsle@1385163669.dhcp.dbnet.dk) |
| 18:02.16 | *** join/#openmoko Gabrys (n=Gabrys@81.219.204.124) |
| 18:09.09 | *** part/#openmoko der-lehmann (n=stefan@188-192-133-169-dynip.superkabel.de) |
| 18:09.54 | *** join/#openmoko gena2x (n=gena2x@bsdmn.com) |
| 18:12.50 | *** join/#openmoko radekp (n=radek@63.120.broadband10.iol.cz) |
| 18:19.06 | *** join/#openmoko Docscrutemp (n=Joerg_rw@216.121.113.82.net.de.o2.com) |
| 18:19.11 | *** join/#openmoko Sargun (n=Sargun@atarack/Staff/Sargun) |
| 18:20.39 | *** join/#openmoko Docscrutemp (n=Joerg_rw@216.121.113.82.net.de.o2.com) |
| 18:34.14 | *** join/#openmoko Docscrutemp (n=Joerg_rw@216.121.113.82.net.de.o2.com) |
| 18:36.12 | *** join/#openmoko dvermd (n=roudoudo@78.234.93.192) |
| 18:38.15 | *** join/#openmoko Docscrutemp (n=Joerg_rw@216.121.113.82.net.de.o2.com) |
| 18:39.46 | DocScrutinizer51 | ~ping |
| 18:39.46 | apt | ~pong |
| 18:43.14 | *** join/#openmoko Docscrutemp (n=Joerg_rw@216.121.113.82.net.de.o2.com) |
| 18:43.31 | *** join/#openmoko Gyb (n=Gyb@g224237232.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 18:43.40 | gena2x | ~help |
| 18:44.29 | *** join/#openmoko chomwitt_ (n=chomwitt@ppp-94-66-188-219.home.otenet.gr) |
| 18:44.37 | DocScrutinizer51 | oh yes |
| 18:45.29 | DocScrutinizer51 | xchat (or freenode) just registers me to 2 chan and refuses for another 4 |
| 18:47.13 | *** join/#openmoko Docscrutemp (n=Joerg_rw@216.121.113.82.net.de.o2.com) |
| 18:47.58 | DocScrutinizer51 | hmm strange xchat choke |
| 18:48.33 | *** join/#openmoko Docscrutemp (n=Joerg_rw@216.121.113.82.net.de.o2.com) |
| 18:48.52 | gena2x | !register |
| 18:49.50 | gena2x | dm |
| 18:50.32 | *** join/#openmoko Docscrutemp (n=Joerg_rw@216.121.113.82.net.de.o2.com) |
| 18:50.52 | *** join/#openmoko CVirus (n=Satan@41.130.233.191) |
| 18:52.33 | *** join/#openmoko Docscrutemp (n=Joerg_rw@216.121.113.82.net.de.o2.com) |
| 18:52.51 | *** join/#openmoko naeg (n=naeg@194.208.239.170) |
| 18:54.33 | *** join/#openmoko Docscrutemp (n=Joerg_rw@216.121.113.82.net.de.o2.com) |
| 18:56.36 | *** join/#openmoko Docscrutemp (n=Joerg_rw@216.121.113.82.net.de.o2.com) |
| 19:05.38 | *** join/#openmoko Heinervdm (n=thomas@pD9E14BCF.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 19:08.31 | *** join/#openmoko Amorphous (i=jan@unaffiliated/amorphous) |
| 19:09.52 | *** join/#openmoko toi (n=toi@d54C2A96D.access.telenet.be) |
| 19:16.57 | *** join/#openmoko sirkha_top (n=sirkha@166.203.67.1) |
| 19:18.59 | *** join/#openmoko Docscrutemp (n=Joerg_rw@200.194.116.85.dsl.manitu.net) |
| 19:26.40 | *** join/#openmoko juan_arandaalvar (n=jaranda@201.130.171.153.dsl.dyn.telnor.net) |
| 19:30.03 | *** join/#openmoko alex-weej (n=alex@cpc2-darl3-0-0-cust158.midd.cable.ntl.com) |
| 19:32.49 | *** join/#openmoko kirun (n=kirun@78-86-154-194.zone2.bethere.co.uk) |
| 19:34.48 | *** join/#openmoko dos1 (n=dos@unaffiliated/dos1) |
| 20:19.58 | *** join/#openmoko AntonTakk (n=AntonTak@poolofdespair.net) |
| 20:31.23 | *** join/#openmoko valos (n=valos@mar92-6-82-227-150-198.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 20:37.05 | *** join/#openmoko max_posedon (n=max_pose@80.249.84.73) |
| 20:48.51 | *** join/#openmoko perico (n=perico@ip39-162-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl) |
| 20:57.58 | *** join/#openmoko CVirus (n=Satan@41.153.49.52) |
| 21:24.57 | *** join/#openmoko Amygos (n=amygos@adsl-ull-26-236.49-151.net24.it) |
| 21:27.48 | *** join/#openmoko raster (n=raster@enlightenment/developer/raster) |
| 21:36.39 | *** join/#openmoko amygos_ (n=amygos@adsl-ull-128-227.49-151.net24.it) |
| 21:57.18 | *** join/#openmoko max_posedon (n=max_pose@80.249.84.73) |
| 22:04.37 | *** join/#openmoko RamsesFSFE (n=RamsesFS@internetautobahn.de) |
| 22:04.56 | RamsesFSFE | hi all |
| 22:05.30 | RamsesFSFE | I've got a problem with a newly installed SHR. It doesn't ask for a pin |
| 22:06.30 | *** join/#openmoko dns53 (n=dns@203.171.196.97) |
| 22:07.03 | RamsesFSFE | how can I find out what's wrong? |
| 22:07.28 | RamsesFSFE | ah, now it's there! |
| 22:07.37 | gena2x | RamsesFSFE: :) |
| 22:08.22 | gena2x | lindi-: Hi. I am using you kapula. Real wow thing to answer calls throught gtk menu. |
| 22:08.47 | lindi- | gena2x: heh |
| 22:09.08 | lindi- | gena2x: note that i am no longer using kapula to answer calls. I use answering-machine for that |
| 22:09.21 | lindi- | gena2x: faster, more reliable, uses less memory |
| 22:09.37 | gena2x | lindi-: Very nice. And now question ;) That should I start to have a phonebook loaded from sim? |
| 22:10.04 | gena2x | lindi-: yes, i've read about it, it's in my queue to try. |
| 22:10.19 | lindi- | gena2x: dump-contacts |
| 22:10.37 | lindi- | gena2x: iki.fi/lindi/openmoko/dump-contacts |
| 22:14.21 | gena2x | lindi-: I mean can kapula use contacts? |
| 22:15.50 | gena2x | lindi-: it writes something like 'failed to read phonebook'. |
| 22:17.23 | gena2x | lindi-: OK :) |
| 22:17.23 | gena2x | lindi-: something like PIN :) |
| 22:17.30 | gena2x | lindi-: No more stupid questions. |
| 22:17.40 | *** join/#openmoko raynet (n=raynet@ns25663.ovh.net) |
| 22:19.07 | lindi- | gena2x: you found .kapula/pin and .kapula/phonebook? ;) |
| 22:19.32 | gena2x | lindi-: I see python for 2nd time. |
| 22:19.37 | tomcatek | lindi-: how to know, if I am using answering-machine? |
| 22:19.56 | lindi- | tomcatek: if you have to ask you aren't :) |
| 22:20.28 | tomcatek | lindi-: i ment any console commnds :P |
| 22:20.36 | gena2x | ps? |
| 22:21.15 | tomcatek | root@moskito ~ $ ps -ef | grep answ |
| 22:21.15 | tomcatek | root 5286 4495 0 22:21 pts/3 00:00:00 grep answ |
| 22:21.15 | tomcatek | root@moskito ~ $ |
| 22:22.07 | tomcatek | ok.. |
| 22:22.08 | gena2x | I guess you not running? |
| 22:22.18 | tomcatek | it's not in SHR repos |
| 22:22.31 | lindi- | tomcatek: true |
| 22:22.36 | gena2x | true |
| 22:23.34 | tomcatek | lindi-: so where did You got ot? |
| 22:23.35 | tomcatek | ity |
| 22:23.38 | tomcatek | it |
| 22:24.03 | gena2x | It came from him. |
| 22:24.33 | tomcatek | gena2x: him hwo? |
| 22:24.44 | gena2x | I mean he wrote it. ;) |
| 22:25.16 | tomcatek | gena2x: but my question wos about repository :P |
| 22:25.34 | lindi- | tomcatek: wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/user:lindi has some links |
| 22:25.52 | *** join/#openmoko Kame2 (n=manuel@port-92-196-99-14.dynamic.qsc.de) |
| 22:27.43 | tomcatek | lindi-: does it have "silent" mode? |
| 22:27.52 | *** join/#openmoko parmaster_ (i=par@dipole.idlepattern.com) |
| 22:28.12 | tomcatek | lindi-: i ment to turn off the ring without ansering the phone |
| 22:28.48 | lindi- | tomcatek: my ringtone-start checks for /tmp/silent |
| 22:29.21 | lindi- | tomcatek: what subsystems of frameworkd are you using? |
| 22:29.35 | tomcatek | lindi-: i would require a button... it's hard to create that file "on the fly" |
| 22:29.46 | tomcatek | lindi-: SHR default one |
| 22:30.21 | lindi- | tomcatek: then answering-machine is probably not the one that plays ringtone on your system :) |
| 22:30.30 | lindi- | tomcatek: well I have a menu entry that creates that file |
| 22:32.36 | tomcatek | hmm... |
| 22:32.58 | tomcatek | lindi-: new SHR leaks that button (which I use quite often) |
| 22:33.09 | lindi- | tomcatek: you can't configure it? |
| 22:33.18 | tomcatek | lindi-: and I'm looking for it :] |
| 22:34.28 | tomcatek | lindi-: no. |
| 22:34.33 | lindi- | now away |
| 22:35.59 | RamsesFSFE | hmm, strange. Obviously, I cannot change the date on SHR. There is no "change" button or something else |
| 22:36.12 | RamsesFSFE | have to do it via shell |
| 22:37.36 | tomcatek | RamsesFSFE: it's known issue |
| 22:37.52 | tomcatek | RamsesFSFE: You have to change it via console |
| 22:38.17 | UndrWater | anyone have recent version of navit not able to list street names? |
| 22:38.26 | tomcatek | RamsesFSFE: do You have any promlems with hour? |
| 22:38.43 | RamsesFSFE | tomcatek: no, I could change this on the gui perfectly |
| 22:38.53 | tomcatek | yes... |
| 22:39.16 | *** join/#openmoko Kame2 (n=manuel@port-92-196-99-14.dynamic.qsc.de) |
| 22:39.22 | *** part/#openmoko gargoyle-grin (n=randerso@gentoo/contributor/gargoyle-grin) |
| 22:39.34 | tomcatek | RamsesFSFE: but it periodicly changes for me |
| 22:39.38 | gena2x | lindi-: What is format for phonebook? |
| 22:40.41 | gena2x | lindi-: One more stupid question... |
| 22:40.53 | RamsesFSFE | tomcatek: ups |
| 22:41.07 | RamsesFSFE | but the rest looks really great |
| 22:41.34 | RamsesFSFE | with neovento, I had a severe SMS issue. Couldn't send nor receive SMS. With SHR, it works |
| 22:43.07 | tomcatek | RamsesFSFE: I use SHR unstable, andalmost everything works for me |
| 22:44.08 | RamsesFSFE | tomcatek: does unstable have any important improvements? |
| 22:44.10 | tomcatek | RamsesFSFE: GPS, GPRS, WiFi, BT (files, nevet tested headset) |
| 22:44.37 | gena2x | lindi-: cool. it works. Only problem is that pin is ~/.kapula/pin while phonebook is ~/.kapula/phonebook.txt. note txt ;) |
| 22:45.15 | tomcatek | RamsesFSFE: improvements to what? |
| 22:45.33 | RamsesFSFE | tomcatek: to the testing version I use |
| 22:47.13 | tomcatek | heh... |
| 22:47.37 | tomcatek | RamsesFSFE: never used testing... always user unstable |
| 22:48.32 | *** join/#openmoko max_posedon (n=max_pose@80.249.84.73) |
| 22:49.02 | *** join/#openmoko hipitihop (n=denis@203.132.229.35) |
| 22:55.07 | *** join/#openmoko Fox_Mu349 (i=quakeman@f051049149.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 23:10.21 | gena2x | lindi-: kapula is exactly I wanted from my phone - simple clean understandble and functional. SHR is too complicated for me. Very happy. |
| 23:11.13 | tomcatek | gena2x: what is complicted about SHR? |
| 23:12.02 | gena2x | tomcatek: It tries to be user friendly, not developer friendly. |
| 23:12.38 | gena2x | tomcatek: Something like this. |
| 23:14.09 | gena2x | tomcatek: Displays few information. Have slow animated interface |
| 23:14.56 | gena2x | tomcatek: I like idea of phonebook simple idea to have phonebook in simple text file. |
| 23:15.33 | gena2x | tomcatek: it's much easier to edit, move, search and so. |
| 23:16.20 | gena2x | tomcatek: mb I just don't understand shr or anything now :) |
| 23:16.22 | tomcatek | gena2x: if You want, SHR allows You to store contacts in CSV file |
| 23:17.07 | tomcatek | gena2x: slow animation is a bite becouse no hardware acceleration (as far as I know) |
| 23:19.28 | gena2x | tomcatek: Do you know how you can dial number in kapula? just pop keyboard, enter few letters from contact and it is autocompleted. |
| 23:19.45 | gena2x | tomcatek: All in 2 seconds |
| 23:20.01 | tomcatek | hmm.. |
| 23:20.05 | tomcatek | nice :] |
| 23:20.13 | gena2x | tomcatek: and number is dialed... instantly :) |
| 23:20.57 | tomcatek | gena2x: if You know how to port that functionality on SHR please do :) |
| 23:22.02 | gena2x | tomcatek: no more new e window with buttons loaded from files. it. just. dials. number :) |
| 23:22.43 | gena2x | tomcatek: I guess it's out of concept of shr. |
| 23:22.51 | RamsesFSFE | tomcatek: hmm, I've got a problem with ssh to the device. auto usb0 iface usb0 inet static address 192.168.0.200 netmask 255.255.255.0 network 192.168.0.0 gives usb0: ERROR while getting interface flags: No such device |
| 23:23.05 | max_posedon | RamsesFSFE, look at dmesg |
| 23:23.11 | max_posedon | or ifconfig -a |
| 23:24.59 | RamsesFSFE | dmesg doesn't show anything, ifconfig -a shows a eth4... WTF? |
| 23:25.33 | tomcatek | ifconfig -a |
| 23:25.43 | tomcatek | or ifconfig usb0 up |
| 23:25.54 | *** join/#openmoko CVirus (n=Satan@41.233.153.123) |
| 23:26.01 | max_posedon | RamsesFSFE, in short, it means, your neo now at eth4 |
| 23:26.17 | max_posedon | if you look carefully at dmesg, you will find it |
| 23:28.35 | tomcatek | RamsesFSFE: can You pastebin ifconfig -a? |
| 23:29.06 | gena2x | RamsesFSFE: and F is udev. |
| 23:30.59 | RamsesFSFE | tomcatek: http://pastebin.com/d3e486f07 |
| 23:32.03 | *** join/#openmoko idarwin (n=ian@24-138-98-167.zing-net.ca) |
| 23:32.07 | max_posedon | pan0? interesting |
| 23:32.21 | RamsesFSFE | yep |
| 23:32.50 | max_posedon | its bluetooth |
| 23:33.06 | RamsesFSFE | yep |
| 23:33.23 | max_posedon | and because of ip conflict, you can't ping your neo attached to eth4 |
| 23:34.03 | gena2x | RamsesFSFE do ifconfig eth4 yp 192.168.0.200 |
| 23:34.33 | gena2x | RamsesFSFE: up |
| 23:35.18 | gena2x | RamsesFSFE: oh, pan0 :) |
| 23:35.20 | RamsesFSFE | that seems to work. Now it's asking for a password I have never set ;-) |
| 23:35.33 | RamsesFSFE | gena2x: yes, that's BT |
| 23:35.44 | gena2x | so first ifdown pan0 down |
| 23:35.55 | gena2x | then ifconfig eth4 down |
| 23:36.11 | gena2x | then ifconfig eth4 up 192.168.0.200 |
| 23:36.53 | gena2x | so first ifdown pan0 |
| 23:37.02 | gena2x | without second down |
| 23:38.16 | tomcatek | heh |
| 23:38.49 | gena2x | I have go sleep :) |
| 23:39.20 | tomcatek | why? |
| 23:40.14 | gena2x | too many typos |
| 23:42.02 | tomcatek | heh... |
| 23:42.35 | RamsesFSFE | I'm going to sleep, too. Thanks a lot |
| 23:43.18 | tomcatek | RamsesFSFE: night |
| 23:57.08 | *** join/#openmoko apt (i=ibot@rikers.org) |
| 23:57.08 | *** topic/#openmoko is Users of Openmoko Mobile Phone Hardware | WikiReader users, please join #openmoko-wikireader | Developers, please join #openmoko-cdevel | New Users read http://wiki.openmoko.org + http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html | Make sure to check http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Om_2009 | SHR images: http://build.shr-project.org/shr-testing/images/om-gta02/ lite-om-gta02.tar.gz or full-om-gta02.tar.gz |
| 23:57.30 | *** part/#openmoko RamsesFSFE (n=RamsesFS@internetautobahn.de) |