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| 05:22.10 | neonemo | hi everybody |
| 05:22.48 | slaxxer | wassa |
| 05:23.33 | neonemo | i want to buy a neo freerunner, but i m from argentina, can tell me someone how i do? |
| 05:25.48 | Undrwater | neonemo: how do you usually buy your consumer electronics? |
| 05:27.51 | neonemo | ok, the problem is that Neo freerunner is not a "ordinary" consumer electronics, it is not in my head electronic shop |
| 05:28.34 | neonemo | Do you are understanding me? |
| 05:28.39 | Undrwater | so you typically buy from a shop...how about internet purchases? |
| 05:29.07 | Undrwater | i think your main issue will be shipping |
| 05:29.31 | neonemo | Exactly |
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| 05:30.36 | Undrwater | no trusted shipping companies in argentina? |
| 05:32.13 | neonemo | really no |
| 05:32.48 | neonemo | thanks for the idea, i tried it |
| 05:33.40 | Undrwater | have you posted to the mailing list? |
| 05:35.46 | neonemo | no no, would i duty it? |
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| 09:28.52 | rhkfin_ | Hi! What's the status of SHR, is -testing already out? What are the biggest issues with -testing and -unstable? |
| 09:32.08 | DocScrutinizer51 | rhkfin_: see /topic. testing is recommended now |
| 09:33.41 | rhkfin_ | ah, thanks :) |
| 09:34.16 | rhkfin_ | Should this be removed from topic: Make sure to check http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Om_2009 |
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| 09:35.08 | rhkfin_ | Can anyone tell me the biggest challanges with -testing? |
| 09:38.48 | DocScrutinizer51 | rhkfin_: that's waht we like you for ;-P |
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| 09:39.11 | DocScrutinizer51 | that's why it's called testing |
| 09:40.41 | rhkfin_ | :) |
| 09:42.06 | rhkfin_ | hmm.. no wonder I wasn't able to SSH in over USB.. I had FR on wall charger.. |
| 09:43.11 | DocScrutinizer51 | lol |
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| 09:52.11 | lindi- | reminds me of my first ever experience with USB. after hours of debugging I realized I still need proprietary software (the BIOS) to enable the USB controller... |
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| 09:55.45 | Defiant- | ..had something like that 2 days ago with the keil µvision IDE. Needed 30-60 minutes to find out that I was debugging with the simulator, not the actual hardware |
| 09:57.05 | lindi- | sounds proprietary :) |
| 09:57.48 | Defiant- | it is but still gives me money |
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| 10:02.12 | tomcatek | anyone know why "silence" button wos removed from "connection incomming" screen un SHR unstable? |
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| 10:15.29 | badcloud_ | is there something similar to method 3 from http://www.neofundas.blogspot.com/ for debian? |
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| 10:22.39 | Heinervdm | badcloud_: if debian is using fso then just set deep_sleep = never in frameworkd.conf |
| 10:23.24 | rhkfin_ | badcloud_: I did the #1024 yesterday and it was actually quite easy, method #1 |
| 10:24.04 | badcloud_ | Heinervdm, I meant non-FSO |
| 10:25.17 | Heinervdm | badcloud_: then i don't know, but software fix is always setting deep sleep to never, it can be done with an AT command too, but don't know how |
| 10:25.21 | badcloud_ | rhkfin_, I might try if I find courage one day about my soldering skills |
| 10:26.03 | badcloud_ | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/1024#QT_based_distos_.28Qtopia.2C_QTExtended.2C_QTMoko....29 |
| 10:26.13 | badcloud_ | would that work without the hw fix? |
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| 10:43.40 | emacsian | Can the android current cupcake version be installed on a 512M SD card ? |
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| 11:14.34 | panicking | I think so |
| 11:14.43 | panicking | depends on howmuch space do you want to use |
| 11:14.46 | panicking | for music |
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| 11:47.58 | pbaxter | hi all |
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| 11:54.31 | PaulFertser | panicking: hey, i see you did quite some work to improve the kernel again. Cool :) |
| 11:55.14 | pbaxter | thanks panicking |
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| 12:06.02 | panicking | But need more testing |
| 12:06.12 | panicking | today I will receive the debug board again |
| 12:12.23 | pbaxter | panicking: ;) |
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| 12:20.44 | SpeedEvil | thanks! |
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| 12:33.40 | badcloud_ | hey, pb |
| 12:33.53 | badcloud_ | how's it going? |
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| 13:14.26 | PBeck | hi |
| 13:17.12 | nagromra | Hello All |
| 13:18.02 | nagromra | Can others let me know their experiences synchronizing the data on the FreeRunner with GNU/Linux |
| 13:19.45 | lindi- | nagromra: the data? |
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| 14:02.55 | dando | hi all |
| 14:05.07 | dando | i have implemented a small application to convert a tangogps track file into a gpx file so openstreetmap or google map can read it. |
| 14:05.24 | dando | will be available soon |
| 14:09.42 | SpeedEvil | gpsbabel can do that can't it? |
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| 14:10.31 | SpeedEvil | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/TangoGPS - yeah |
| 14:11.23 | SpeedEvil | But it's not very convenient maybe. |
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| 14:12.42 | dando | i dont know if gpsbabel can do it |
| 14:12.57 | SpeedEvil | see the above page |
| 14:13.02 | SpeedEvil | sorry. :/ |
| 14:13.27 | dando | its just small shell application so you can convert the log files on your freerunner. |
| 14:16.48 | dando | ok it llredy exists |
| 14:16.55 | dando | ;) |
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| 14:19.01 | SpeedEvil | learning stuff is never bad. |
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| 14:19.33 | dando | that is true |
| 14:20.35 | ndnihil | not true, imagine learning that your parents were into hardcore BDSM |
| 14:20.57 | ndnihil | some things are better not known |
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| 14:33.55 | weatherhead | hi everyone, anyone know how to enable predictive keyboard in qtMoko v15 |
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| 14:41.30 | nagromra | lindi: contacts, phone numbers and other relevant data that were pertain to any individual person entry |
| 14:42.55 | lindi- | nagromra: ah, those probably depend on the dialer program you use |
| 14:46.06 | nagromra | well, optimally, i would want to sync with thunderbird or a pim that I could install on my system to do this well with the GUI alone |
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| 15:35.23 | weatherhead | is anybody using a finger keyboard on openmoko? |
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| 15:44.29 | DocScrutinizer51 | literki? |
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| 16:00.48 | dando | i m using an external keyboard |
| 16:02.15 | weatherhead | I would like to use a decent predictive keyboard such as qtopia used to have |
| 16:02.22 | weatherhead | but latest QTmoko images seem to have hosed it |
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| 16:19.25 | weatherhead | radekp: could you describe to me how to activate prediction on the qtmoko keyboard? |
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| 16:20.44 | radekp | weatherhead: i dont know :( was some gesture IIRC, but i dont use it |
| 16:21.03 | radekp | weatherhead: maybe it's described somehere on mail list or wiki |
| 16:21.19 | weatherhead | ok, well on the ML itr is described as a diagonal gesture |
| 16:21.29 | weatherhead | which for me only changes the deletion behaviour |
| 16:22.04 | weatherhead | i..e it changes from left slide -> delete one character, to left slide -> delete whole word |
| 16:24.30 | weatherhead | which as I recall is how trhe predictive keyboard used to work |
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| 16:35.44 | mwester | installed panicking 's android image, and notes that it constantly suspends and re-awakens while it is plugged into the host via usb... :( |
| 16:36.37 | panicking | mwester, can you explain |
| 16:36.38 | panicking | ? |
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| 16:37.52 | mwester | It's plugged into a host -- it suspends, then wakes up exactly 10 minutes later, and suspends again 5 seconds after awakening. |
| 16:38.31 | mwester | My messages log is full of USB connect/disconnect messages as the RNDIS gadget starts and stops. :D |
| 16:38.36 | lindi- | mwester: what's resume reason? |
| 16:38.47 | mwester | No idea. Not even sure how to tell on android. |
| 16:38.51 | panicking | can you move to the #android-on-frerunner channel? |
| 16:38.57 | mwester | sure. |
| 16:39.05 | panicking | so we can talk about it |
| 16:39.06 | lindi- | mwester: install omhacks and run "om resume-reason" :) |
| 16:39.15 | weatherhead | radekp: I think I need to talk to the guy on the mailing list called "Leonardo" about this. Does he ever visit IRC? |
| 16:41.32 | panicking | cat /sys/class/i2c-adapter/i2c-0/0-0073/resume_reason |
| 16:42.01 | panicking | mwester, but what is the overall speed impression |
| 16:42.15 | mwester | :) Not sure, I've not tried anything with it yet. |
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| 16:43.17 | mwester | I'll try to see if I can connect next time it resumes to find out why it resumed -- it'll be tough, because according to the log, I have 5 seconds once every 10 minutes to catch it. |
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| 16:44.01 | panicking | ok |
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| 16:59.16 | cz_jc | hello |
| 16:59.18 | radekp | weatherhead: i think not anymore |
| 16:59.39 | cz_jc | I keep loosing RTC settings in my GTA02v6 when main battery is removed even for a short while |
| 16:59.53 | cz_jc | it kinda messes with my gentoo system |
| 17:00.06 | cz_jc | any idea if that tiny backup battery is rechargeable or replaceable ? |
| 17:00.42 | cz_jc | (I measured about 0.37V on it) |
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| 17:03.20 | cz_jc | am I correct it is the BAT1701 in sheet 4 in the schematic connected to BUBAT on the PCF ? |
| 17:04.25 | cz_jc | bingo.. 3V seiko battery, so thats definitely drained, right ? |
| 17:05.01 | SpeedEvil | yes - it should I think be chargable |
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| 17:05.21 | SpeedEvil | but it may take an extended period to charge - and also may die if deeply discharged |
| 17:05.43 | cz_jc | I found the datasheet on mouser, reading it.. |
| 17:06.04 | cz_jc | SpeedEvil, yeah its rechargeable :) |
| 17:06.16 | cz_jc | SpeedEvil, hah, 0.37V would be deep discharge, wouldn't it ? |
| 17:06.19 | SpeedEvil | yes |
| 17:06.27 | cz_jc | datasheet says 'cut off: 1.2V) |
| 17:06.45 | cz_jc | so.. I need another backup battery :) |
| 17:06.50 | cz_jc | looks kinda.. hard to solder XD |
| 17:06.56 | SpeedEvil | :/ |
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| 17:10.01 | cz_jc | damn, mouser doesn't ship it to Czech Republic :/ |
| 17:10.33 | cz_jc | so looks like its loose time on every SD replacement for me |
| 17:11.46 | cz_jc | SpeedEvil, anyway, thanks for help tracking it down |
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| 17:45.29 | DocScrutinizer51 | bupbat? have a shitload here |
| 17:46.23 | DocScrutinizer51 | cz_jc: query me if interested |
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| 18:44.53 | DocScrutinizer51 | need some buzzfix sets as well? |
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| 18:50.00 | Martix_ | DocScrutinizer-8: hi |
| 18:50.38 | DocScrutinizer-8 | hi |
| 18:53.36 | Martix_ | DocScrutinizer51: I am going to do another buzzfix party in Czech Republic |
| 18:53.59 | UndrWater | no 1024? |
| 18:54.04 | DocScrutinizer51 | talk to cz_jc |
| 18:54.17 | Martix_ | during April/May |
| 18:54.27 | Martix_ | DocScrutinizer51: I did :-) |
| 18:54.35 | cz_jc | DocScrutinizer51, I'm already talking with him :) |
| 18:54.36 | Martix_ | UndrWater: 1024 too |
| 18:54.51 | cz_jc | DocScrutinizer51, I told him to ask you for some other components so we can possibly combine the shipment |
| 18:54.51 | DocScrutinizer51 | need some buzzfix sets as well? |
| 18:54.55 | UndrWater | wanna come to US? ;) |
| 18:55.26 | Martix_ | UndrWater: no, its too far away :-) |
| 18:55.28 | cz_jc | DocScrutinizer51, (I'm already getting and filling DL envelopes as we speak) |
| 18:55.28 | DocScrutinizer51 | cz_jc: just write it on your wishlist :-) |
| 18:56.14 | UndrWater | Martix_: i know..been trying to find someone who will do 1024 and bassfix |
| 18:56.53 | cz_jc | DocScrutinizer51, uuh.. sure.. I'll just get from him what he wants already and ask you for cost estimate XD |
| 18:57.35 | DocScrutinizer51 | mah. please not another estimation |
| 18:57.46 | Martix_ | DocScrutinizer51: do you have parts for #1024 fix, too? and maybe some parts for bass fix, but its not priority :-) |
| 18:58.04 | DocScrutinizer51 | nope. sorry |
| 18:59.07 | DocScrutinizer51 | ask alphaone about parts for 1024 |
| 19:00.36 | Martix_ | ok, thanks |
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| 19:04.21 | DocScrutinizer51 | for bassfix you can use same big C as for buzzfix |
| 19:05.31 | DocScrutinizer51 | Martix_: I can send you a moderate amount of those |
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| 19:09.16 | Martix_ | thanks, but I think its too soon for order, I am going to do this HW fix party during spring and dont know number of FRs, which will be fixed |
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| 19:25.47 | PaulFertser | Martix_: bassfix? What is your plan? |
| 19:29.24 | PaulFertser | Martix_: because i already did it my way on 3 devices, all worked fine so far (excluding the fact i almost ruined one device by not placing additional isolation and shorting some cap by a deformed upper can lid, so beware, better place an additional sheet of paper or something inside before closing the can. |
| 19:35.01 | Martix_ | PaulFertser: ok |
| 19:35.48 | PaulFertser | Martix_: the pictures on wiki lack the candypaper shield, without it i got nice sound whenever i used gprs or received calls/messages :) |
| 19:36.35 | PaulFertser | Martix_: the guy told me that even with stock OM headset the bassfix is essential. |
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| 19:45.46 | UndrWater | maybe stupid queston...but this wouldn't impact bluetooth headset would it? |
| 19:48.02 | *** part/#openmoko Martix_ (n=Martix_@212.111.30.125) |
| 19:50.13 | DocScrutinizer-8 | nope |
| 19:51.54 | DocScrutinizer-8 | there's not even any impact to the BT TX/RX performance of the antenna the capacitors are mounted next to in PaulFertseräs design |
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| 19:55.17 | PaulFertser | DocScrutinizer-8: yep, at least comparision of range done by (hcitool scan) between my fixed and mrmoku's unfixed device at F9C didn't find any differenc. |
| 19:56.55 | DocScrutinizer-8 | still I'd try to place the two big C nnnect to mic. There's a hole already for the wires ;-) |
| 19:57.25 | DocScrutinizer-8 | s/nnnect/next/ |
| 19:59.51 | PaulFertser | DocScrutinizer-8: next to mic? I thought you proposed next to backup battery. |
| 20:00.19 | DocScrutinizer-8 | that's almost the same, noaü |
| 20:00.36 | DocScrutinizer-8 | no? |
| 20:00.58 | PaulFertser | DocScrutinizer-8: it would be next to handset speaker i'd say :) |
| 20:01.38 | DocScrutinizer-8 | err. maybe another oops of my menory. probably you're right |
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| 20:27.06 | cz_jc | phew ! |
| 20:27.28 | cz_jc | is it normal that I get about 6V on my FR RTC battery when u-boot turns on ? |
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| 20:33.39 | PaulFertser | cz_jc: i think pcf50633 tries to charge it, i'd need to check the datasheet to tell the details. |
| 20:34.05 | cz_jc | PaulFertser, well it definitely shouldn't get 5V, should it? :/ |
| 20:34.26 | PaulFertser | cz_jc: it's you who read the battery datasheet, so you should know better :) |
| 20:34.49 | cz_jc | PaulFertser, there are several charge curves from 2.5 to 3.3V |
| 20:35.03 | cz_jc | PaulFertser, its a constant current charge though, at 5uA |
| 20:35.42 | cz_jc | maybe if it was real dead or something, but 5 and at times even 7V is weird i think, isn't it ? |
| 20:36.01 | PaulFertser | cz_jc: gimme time |
| 20:36.03 | cz_jc | thats more than twice the rated voltage |
| 20:36.24 | cz_jc | PaulFertser, oh, you're checking it out? thanks :) |
| 20:37.08 | cz_jc | PaulFertser, theres the battery datasheet: http://cz.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Seiko-Instruments/HB414-IV01E/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMv%252bRg7RuaPulOEwbehdxWQx49HEia9RQ0Q%3d |
| 20:37.22 | cz_jc | PaulFertser, theres small PDF icon and 'Data Sheet' on top |
| 20:38.08 | PaulFertser | cz_jc: pcf50633 doesn't seem to allow charging with voltages over 3.15, so 6V is mad strange. |
| 20:38.27 | cz_jc | hm |
| 20:38.33 | cz_jc | I booted linux and its charging at 3V |
| 20:38.51 | cz_jc | PaulFertser, yeah, I only get about 6V in u-boot |
| 20:39.11 | cz_jc | and only when u-boot is on, when I turn it off (via menu item or battery removal), I again get 3V |
| 20:39.51 | cz_jc | 3.00V with linux on and display off still.. |
| 20:40.40 | cz_jc | and 3.01V with linux suspended |
| 20:40.51 | PaulFertser | cz_jc: i can't explain u-boot results... |
| 20:41.08 | cz_jc | (but I have el-crapola hardware store multimeter so treat that as noise XD) |
| 20:41.18 | cz_jc | it doesn't do noise in several volts though XD |
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| 20:46.05 | cz_jc | hmm.. in NOR u-boot I get the 3V too |
| 20:46.36 | cz_jc | but when I turn off the phone cleanly from linux or from u-boot, charging is disabled as I again get about 1V and slowly decreasing |
| 20:47.21 | PaulFertser | cz_jc: it's an interesting question why the hell almost all FR's got the backup battery disfunctional. |
| 20:47.42 | cz_jc | funny thing |
| 20:47.56 | cz_jc | when I cleanly halted from linux and started nand u-boot, it charges at 3V again |
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| 20:48.45 | cz_jc | and removing battery, reinserting and starting nand u-boot: correct 3V again |
| 20:49.14 | cz_jc | looks like it charges with overvoltage only when main battery is removed, backup battery is drained, PCF loses data and nand u-boot is started.. |
| 20:49.46 | cz_jc | uh.. I meant.. then insert main battery and start u-boot |
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| 20:50.08 | cz_jc | because when PCF is reset and backup bat drained, just inserting main battery doesn't begin charging backup battery |
| 20:51.10 | PaulFertser | cz_jc: yes, charging bbat can be done only in "Active" state. |
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| 20:51.37 | PaulFertser | cz_jc: so probably 6V is some pcf hardware bug, right? |
| 20:52.18 | cz_jc | PaulFertser, absolutely no idea, I'll try to replicate my measurement again.. |
| 20:52.42 | cz_jc | I constantly left my FR without main battery and USB connection so it naturally got dried |
| 20:53.40 | cz_jc | my theory is that u-boot doesn't set everything that needs to be set in the pcf and when its memory gets wiped, its badly initialized or whatever |
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| 20:55.59 | rhkfin_ | anyone using the recetn shr-testing? What are the best bits, what are the worst bits? I have an old -unstable and will travel for a week soon and I'd like to know if it's worth to try -testing.. |
| 20:56.01 | PaulFertser | cz_jc: from reading the datasheet i can't see how to do that :) |
| 20:56.15 | cz_jc | PaulFertser, I'm as puzzled by the 6V as you are.. |
| 20:56.34 | cz_jc | and only thing its connected to is the PCF bubat pin and ground |
| 20:57.05 | cz_jc | there are a few cappacitors and one IC near it but how could it be some RF induction or something |
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| 21:06.13 | PaulFertser | cz_jc: have you reproduced it? Probably you just touched some nearby part without noticing? |
| 21:06.28 | cz_jc | PaulFertser, I'm letting it drain now.. I'm about 0.7V |
| 21:06.35 | cz_jc | when I'm at 0.6V again, I'll retry... |
| 21:07.00 | PaulFertser | cz_jc: ok. So do you have any idea about defective batteries? |
| 21:07.15 | cz_jc | PaulFertser, not a clue about li-ion cells |
| 21:07.28 | cz_jc | those are finicky to work with as I know |
| 21:07.32 | cz_jc | they kinda tend to explode a lot |
| 21:07.40 | PaulFertser | cz_jc: deep discharge would be a reasonable guess. |
| 21:08.03 | PaulFertser | cz_jc: (explode) i think you will be amazed to read the tests performed on gta01 bat to prove it's safe. |
| 21:08.14 | cz_jc | yeah, they also loose capacity very rapidly when fully charged, fully discharged or at high temperatures |
| 21:08.29 | cz_jc | PaulFertser, I meant li-ion cells without controllers :) |
| 21:08.36 | cz_jc | (or under/overvoltage protections) |
| 21:09.12 | PaulFertser | cz_jc: read the doc, it's really interesting: http://people.openmoko.org/joerg/battery/PACK950925.pdf |
| 21:09.36 | cz_jc | looks like the backup bat has no protection or controller whatsoever |
| 21:09.56 | cz_jc | only some metal shield for temperature protection during soldering |
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| 21:10.10 | cz_jc | they're very precise about soldering instructions in the datasheet |
| 21:10.19 | cz_jc | you're only allowed to exceed 200 C for about 20 seconds |
| 21:12.44 | cz_jc | PaulFertser, huh? thats the same as the FR battery pack datasheet, except different circuit, isn't it ? |
| 21:13.01 | cz_jc | PaulFertser, I totally beleive those, I don't beleive the tiny RTC battery :) |
| 21:13.22 | cz_jc | I'd guess at least some gases would leak if you overcharged that one |
| 21:13.58 | cz_jc | AFAIK, the FR cell protection circuits disconnects ground from li-ion cell on bad electrical conditions |
| 21:14.36 | cz_jc | aand I see I'm on 0.5V, gonna retry :) |
| 21:14.59 | cz_jc | inserting main battery.. it raised to 0.6V |
| 21:15.21 | cz_jc | (but thats because I removed the meter and reinserted it, it retains some voltage) |
| 21:15.50 | cz_jc | now started NAND u-boot and I get 2.95V |
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| 21:16.01 | cz_jc | PaulFertser, sorry looks like I indeed touched some other component or something |
| 21:16.13 | PaulFertser | cz_jc: :)) |
| 21:18.49 | PaulFertser | cz_jc: (datasheet) my point is that it received pretty harsh testing, and most of that didn't involve internal curcuity. |
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| 21:19.56 | cz_jc | PaulFertser, but thats for the main battery pack in gta01, isn't it ? |
| 21:20.08 | PaulFertser | cz_jc: yes, but i guess the lion cells are the same. |
| 21:20.36 | PaulFertser | cz_jc: as in gta02. It's just interesting to read about battery packs, i do not say that tiny rtc battery is the same :) |
| 21:20.52 | cz_jc | yeah, its weird though |
| 21:21.04 | cz_jc | how do you get 3V in a tiny li-ion button-y cell |
| 21:21.24 | PaulFertser | cz_jc: looks like gta02 lacks protection of bupbat from deep discharge and that is the reason it degraded in almost all devices. |
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| 21:22.10 | cz_jc | yeah.. because people seldom used their FR as main phone and it was often left powered off apparently :) |
| 21:23.05 | cz_jc | hehe its really cool how open Freerunner is, you get wiki entries on how to disassemble it, connect jtag and stuff and even huge rings for cpu connections XD |
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| 21:23.40 | cz_jc | I gotta make a tiny internal gadget someday |
| 21:24.03 | lindi- | cz_jc: rings? |
| 21:24.07 | cz_jc | I was thinking outside temperature and light sensor (that one for regulating LCD brightness) |
| 21:24.48 | cz_jc | lindi-, yeah, its on the bottom side of the PCB |
| 21:25.52 | badcloud_ | does the freerunner have multitouch capability? |
| 21:26.12 | max_posedon | badcloud_, no |
| 21:26.13 | cz_jc | badcloud_, nope |
| 21:26.25 | lindi- | cz_jc: there's already a temperature sensor |
| 21:26.34 | cz_jc | lindi-, you mean the one in the battery cell ? |
| 21:26.40 | cz_jc | thats kinda useless for env temperature :) |
| 21:26.43 | lindi- | cz_jc: yep |
| 21:26.49 | lindi- | cz_jc: it's not if the phone is in suspend |
| 21:26.53 | badcloud_ | nuts, that doesn't fair well for handheld game console emu's |
| 21:26.54 | cz_jc | lindi-, thats true |
| 21:27.03 | lindi- | cz_jc: my phone wakes up every our to log the temperature |
| 21:27.08 | lindi- | s/our/hour/ |
| 21:27.12 | cz_jc | badcloud_, you can't play many games on FR really |
| 21:27.19 | cz_jc | just stuff like solitaire and duke nukem 3D |
| 21:27.23 | badcloud_ | I've noticed that |
| 21:27.34 | badcloud_ | shy of external input devices, of course |
| 21:27.40 | cz_jc | lindi-, lol thats cool |
| 21:28.00 | badcloud_ | so what *is* there to do with one aside from writing software for it?? |
| 21:28.00 | cz_jc | lindi-, nice idea |
| 21:28.18 | cz_jc | badcloud_, why shy ? |
| 21:28.25 | cz_jc | badcloud_, you got USB host for gods sakes |
| 21:28.33 | cz_jc | badcloud_, you can plug in USB hub with keyboard and mouse |
| 21:28.44 | cz_jc | and hal just hotplugs them to Xorg and you get that input |
| 21:29.21 | cz_jc | I set up unclutter to hide mouse cursor after a few seconds of inactivity |
| 21:29.49 | badcloud_ | cz_jc, I meant you can't really game with it except for with external input |
| 21:30.04 | cz_jc | badcloud_, oh yeah, did I also mention wifi (remote control with synergy from other pc), bluetooth (hid keyboards/mice), etc ? |
| 21:30.16 | cz_jc | badcloud_, yeah, thats true.. |
| 21:30.17 | badcloud_ | sure, that's all good |
| 21:30.24 | badcloud_ | so aside from telephony |
| 21:30.27 | cz_jc | duke nukem with accelerometers was pretty good though |
| 21:30.32 | badcloud_ | what do you guys actually do with your phones? |
| 21:30.45 | cz_jc | I develop php webapps on mine |
| 21:30.48 | badcloud_ | haven't tried duke yet aside from one time |
| 21:31.00 | badcloud_ | *aside* from development |
| 21:31.15 | badcloud_ | what do you guys actually *do* with your phones? |
| 21:31.16 | cz_jc | well, schoolwork tracker |
| 21:31.31 | cz_jc | oh yeah, I also used it as a gps in unfamiliar areas several times |
| 21:31.38 | badcloud_ | I just feel like I'm wasting a wonderful piece of machinery |
| 21:31.48 | badcloud_ | apart from calls and using remind as my calendar |
| 21:31.58 | badcloud_ | I don't do crap diddly with it |
| 21:32.01 | cz_jc | badcloud_, also try openvibe XD |
| 21:32.48 | badcloud_ | mokomaze is cute |
| 21:32.57 | cz_jc | that too |
| 21:33.11 | cz_jc | its a spoof on the HTC game shipped with Diamond Touch :) |
| 21:33.18 | badcloud_ | ah |
| 21:33.27 | cz_jc | that one had a windows flag in it XD |
| 21:33.37 | badcloud_ | I'm sure if I were a hacker I'd have much more use for the phone |
| 21:33.38 | cz_jc | (in the finish hole I think) |
| 21:33.46 | badcloud_ | or cracker/etc |
| 21:33.59 | cz_jc | mokomaze in first versions had fain windows flags in the loose holes |
| 21:34.07 | cz_jc | I found that hysterically funny XD |
| 21:34.08 | badcloud_ | I remember |
| 21:34.11 | badcloud_ | me too |
| 21:34.14 | cz_jc | *faint |
| 21:34.24 | badcloud_ | they never should have edited that out |
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| 21:34.32 | cz_jc | my thought exactly |
| 21:34.36 | badcloud_ | :) |
| 21:34.46 | cz_jc | lets do a fork XD |
| 21:34.51 | badcloud_ | word |
| 21:35.12 | badcloud_ | ummm, how do you do that? :P |
| 21:35.23 | cz_jc | first you register on sourceforge |
| 21:35.36 | cz_jc | then you checkout their mokomaze and check it in your sourceforge svn |
| 21:35.43 | cz_jc | then you call it a mokomaze fork |
| 21:35.47 | cz_jc | and you got a fork XD |
| 21:36.00 | cz_jc | then you redraw some images and do a second commit |
| 21:36.11 | cz_jc | finally calling it 'its now different than mokomaze' |
| 21:36.55 | badcloud_ | well, sounds like a bit of work |
| 21:37.13 | badcloud_ | if you do it, don't forget to credit me for moral support ;) |
| 21:37.19 | cz_jc | I wonder if a patch like 'we want windows loose flags back !' would get in XD |
| 21:37.30 | cz_jc | badcloud_, lol np XD |
| 21:38.06 | badcloud_ | I wonder if there's some website with a list of debian touchscreen games |
| 21:38.36 | cz_jc | badcloud_, try pygame stuff too |
| 21:38.48 | badcloud_ | cool, thanks |
| 21:38.51 | cz_jc | I saw the performance isn't really bad with games that don't redraw entire screen and just use sprites, etc |
| 21:39.21 | max_posedon | neo is bad for all, except "being dev platform" |
| 21:39.27 | cz_jc | of course, I got about half a fps on glxgears XD |
| 21:39.31 | max_posedon | but as for this, its extermelly cool |
| 21:39.48 | cz_jc | max_posedon, so true |
| 21:39.52 | cz_jc | max_posedon, hows it going ? |
| 21:40.12 | max_posedon | fine |
| 21:46.57 | cz_jc | some phoenix wright-like games would be nice on the FR I think |
| 21:47.15 | cz_jc | mostly text novel adventures with simple touch interface |
| 21:48.56 | badcloud_ | scummvm isn't bad on a nostagic level |
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| 21:49.13 | cz_jc | hmm.. that stupid backup bat has larger leakage than an electrolytic cappacitor |
| 21:49.39 | cz_jc | I was charging it for hour or so with 3V and it drows to 2V in just a few seconds and then slowly down to 0.5V over about a minute |
| 21:50.18 | badcloud_ | yikes |
| 21:50.21 | SpeedEvil | sounds likely broken |
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| 21:50.55 | badcloud_ | max, I disagree, though |
| 21:51.13 | badcloud_ | the neo works well as a media player |
| 21:51.24 | cz_jc | I don't think so.. |
| 21:51.37 | cz_jc | if you like listening to music on the loudspeaker then maybe.. |
| 21:51.37 | badcloud_ | really? where would you say it falls short? |
| 21:51.45 | badcloud_ | nah, headphones |
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| 21:52.22 | cz_jc | badcloud_, you didn't listen to a normal el-crapola cheap mp3 player in quite a while on the same headphones, did you? :) |
| 21:52.29 | cz_jc | its.. quite a difference.. |
| 21:52.34 | badcloud_ | I'd imagine |
| 21:52.37 | max_posedon | badcloud_, I haven't bass-fix |
| 21:52.49 | cz_jc | yeah, me neither |
| 21:52.56 | max_posedon | and my bluetooth headphones for some reason don't works well |
| 21:53.00 | badcloud_ | me neither, but a pocket amp will do in a pinch, no? |
| 21:53.03 | max_posedon | music "laggying" |
| 21:53.10 | cz_jc | badcloud_, on that point, yes |
| 21:53.20 | cz_jc | its quite good actually when I connect it to aux input in my car |
| 21:53.20 | max_posedon | I can't by poket amp in my country |
| 21:53.35 | cz_jc | max_posedon, you can easilly make one ;) |
| 21:53.47 | max_posedon | but yes, phone good enough when I attach it to my "stereo". |
| 21:53.55 | max_posedon | cz_jc, nope, _I_ can't |
| 21:53.59 | badcloud_ | anyhoo, I'll find some other things to do with mine |
| 21:54.00 | cz_jc | max_posedon, in fact when we were under communist occupation, this kinda tinkering was encouraged by our comrades |
| 21:54.12 | badcloud_ | and when I do, I'll tell you guys about it here |
| 21:54.18 | badcloud_ | g'night all :) |
| 21:54.25 | cz_jc | badcloud_, bye :) |
| 21:54.47 | cz_jc | max_posedon, you don't have electronic component stores ? |
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| 21:55.02 | cz_jc | max_posedon, you can't buy like an 741 amplifier IC or something ? |
| 21:55.07 | PaulFertser | max_posedon: no amount of amplification can make FR sound decent, one needs bass fix no matter what. |
| 21:55.17 | max_posedon | I haven't such skills at all |
| 21:55.26 | cz_jc | PaulFertser, when you have input with high impedance, sound isn't that bad |
| 21:55.35 | cz_jc | PaulFertser, opamp is pretty good for that |
| 21:55.52 | PaulFertser | cz_jc: are you sure? Have you looked at the schematics? There're two pulldowns in parallel to the output :( |
| 21:56.18 | cz_jc | PaulFertser, I heard it myself.. its much better than with headphones |
| 21:57.07 | PaulFertser | cz_jc: tried comparing with any reasonable portable player attached to the the same amp? |
| 21:57.11 | cz_jc | max_posedon, its really simple, you just need a soldering iron, some solder, a protoboard the IC and a few other components you get at electronics store for very cheap :) |
| 21:57.31 | cz_jc | PaulFertser, yeah.. of course my chinese mp3 was better but the bass weren't so unpreasent |
| 21:57.42 | cz_jc | PaulFertser, the overal sound was kinda 'flat' though |
| 21:57.54 | max_posedon | cz_jc, I already have bluetooth headphones, and want them!) |
| 21:58.05 | cz_jc | as if it was overdriven and silent anyway |
| 21:58.18 | PaulFertser | cz_jc: R4116 and R4117 are our enemies. I think if you remove them altogether, you'll get proper sound with high-z amp. |
| 21:58.49 | cz_jc | seeing as I have my FR disassembled here already, lemme check XD |
| 21:58.53 | PaulFertser | max_posedon: btw, i know fellow who uses his FR to listen via a2dp and it works pretty good for him. |
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| 21:59.37 | max_posedon | I know, I want retry my experiments during holidays near NY |
| 22:00.02 | PaulFertser | max_posedon: i can give you his jid i think, moreover he's russian so you might find it more comfortable to discuss BT issues with him. |
| 22:01.07 | max_posedon | fine, thanks, later |
| 22:01.10 | PaulFertser | cz_jc: before you close the main can please add some insulation to be 100% sure you do not short some high-profile caps with the can lid. |
| 22:02.00 | cz_jc | PaulFertser, oh its inside the metal shield ? |
| 22:02.04 | cz_jc | PaulFertser, i won't open that... |
| 22:02.22 | PaulFertser | cz_jc: it takes me ~20 min to open that the first time on a new device :( |
| 22:04.01 | cz_jc | PaulFertser, hmm. I see no pulldowns in the schematic |
| 22:04.14 | PaulFertser | cz_jc: but probably it's easier and more beneficial to add the caps than to remove r411[67], they're located just under the can holder. |
| 22:04.26 | cz_jc | oh I c, its on sheet 7 |
| 22:04.28 | PaulFertser | cz_jc: the pdf is searchable :) |
| 22:04.29 | cz_jc | hidiously hidden :) |
| 22:05.06 | cz_jc | oh god |
| 22:05.11 | cz_jc | 1uF decoupling caps |
| 22:05.15 | cz_jc | whoever thought of that ? |
| 22:05.23 | PaulFertser | cz_jc: mad TPE "engineers" |
| 22:05.35 | cz_jc | PaulFertser, TPE ? |
| 22:05.39 | PaulFertser | cz_jc: taiwain |
| 22:05.46 | cz_jc | oh.. |
| 22:05.51 | PaulFertser | Hm, tpe is apparently easier to type right :) |
| 22:06.04 | cz_jc | oh well.. its not like I can design mobile phones |
| 22:06.15 | cz_jc | look at me bitching here XD |
| 22:06.45 | PaulFertser | cz_jc: it's not like those guys could design anything either :( |
| 22:06.56 | cz_jc | PaulFertser, apperently it works XD |
| 22:07.02 | cz_jc | somehow, it works |
| 22:07.39 | PaulFertser | cz_jc: heh, after so many gta01 and gta02 revisions it's not that surprising :) |
| 22:07.40 | cz_jc | PaulFertser, how many unofficial were there? XD |
| 22:08.03 | PaulFertser | cz_jc: no idea, i think all of the produced boards are mentioned on the wiki "officially". |
| 22:08.09 | cz_jc | but the internals are totally esoteric, I love just looking at it |
| 22:08.21 | cz_jc | its all wired in and glued together XD |
| 22:09.04 | cz_jc | I love how the GPS module just falls out of it when you first open the case XD |
| 22:09.16 | PaulFertser | cz_jc: it's not the module, only antenna. |
| 22:09.30 | PaulFertser | cz_jc: with an integrated amp i assume :) |
| 22:09.34 | cz_jc | PaulFertser, huh? whats the brown brick on it ? |
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| 22:10.35 | PaulFertser | cz_jc: btw, the last time i assembled FR it took me ~5 times because i was forgetting either gps antenna or gsm antenna or both :) |
| 22:10.53 | cz_jc | hehe :) |
| 22:11.01 | cz_jc | I love the speaker plastics |
| 22:11.14 | PaulFertser | cz_jc: the "silly white thingie"? |
| 22:11.19 | cz_jc | I'm thinking about drilling through it so that sound gets to the other hole too |
| 22:11.25 | cz_jc | yep :) |
| 22:11.43 | cz_jc | its really hideous when you watch a movie up close on it and it sounds only on one side |
| 22:12.36 | cz_jc | thats got to be one of the easiest FR hardware reworks XD |
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| 22:14.07 | cz_jc | what do you know.. the white plastic thing splits in two, hehehe :) |
| 22:14.19 | PaulFertser | cz_jc: after my friend bought his new nokia phone he showed me it and then said "listen" and pushed it right to my nose. And i heard real stereo indeed. Couldn't think of any usecase for that though, holding a phone horizontally right near the nose doesn't seem to be a good idea mostly. |
| 22:14.54 | cz_jc | PaulFertser, what about watching movies in bed? I hate wearing glasses so I just have it really close to my head.. |
| 22:15.32 | PaulFertser | cz_jc: for that phone it wouldn't work, you need to hold it horizontally and really close to hear decent stereo, so you won't see the screen :) |
| 22:17.01 | cz_jc | PaulFertser, for FR, even if its slightly close, it feels like you're dead on the left ear :) |
| 22:17.05 | cz_jc | *deaf |
| 22:17.06 | cz_jc | omg XD |
| 22:17.12 | PaulFertser | :D |
| 22:17.50 | cz_jc | crazy idea |
| 22:18.28 | cz_jc | what if I put a mono jack connector inside the antenna connector slit and ran cables directly instead of the internal loudspeaker ? |
| 22:19.10 | cz_jc | hmm.. its a shame it doesn't have a second loudspeaker connector |
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| 22:20.42 | PaulFertser | cz_jc: gta01 was stereo. But everybody considered that useless. |
| 22:20.53 | cz_jc | yeah, I saw :) |
| 22:21.12 | PaulFertser | cz_jc: you can try connecting two speakers in parallel i think. |
| 22:21.56 | cz_jc | PaulFertser, that was my thought.. but I dunno if its better to have a good pseudo-stereo and no loudspeaker or bad stereo and a loudspeaker |
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| 22:23.52 | cz_jc | I spy with my little eye rings with SPI_MISO, SPI_MOSI and SPI_CLK written near them |
| 22:23.57 | cz_jc | mmm.. juicy |
| 22:26.25 | PaulFertser | cz_jc: n900 and other maemo guys would never understood that :( |
| 22:27.14 | cz_jc | PaulFertser, freerunner just begs for a tiny microcontroller-based parasite inside of it :) |
| 22:27.29 | cz_jc | I just can't think of any good one now.. |
| 22:27.46 | SpeedEvil | My 901A eeepc has quite good stereo, if you balance it on top of your head. |
| 22:28.53 | PaulFertser | SpeedEvil: :) |
| 22:30.35 | cz_jc | I don't really care for stereo, I just wanna hear music on both sizes XD |
| 22:30.41 | cz_jc | *sides |
| 22:30.46 | cz_jc | goddamn that beer |
| 22:31.13 | cz_jc | is drilling a path through the white thingy with speaker in it |
| 22:32.36 | cz_jc | but you gotta hand it to taiwan engineers with the loudspeaker |
| 22:32.45 | cz_jc | thanks to that tiny resonance chamber, it actually haves some good bass |
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