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| 00:24.24 | *** topic/#openmoko is Users of Openmoko Mobile Phone Hardware | WikiReader users, please join #openmoko-wikireader | Developers, please join #openmoko-cdevel | New Users read http://wiki.openmoko.org + http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html | Make sure to check http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Om_2009 | SHR images: http://build.shr-project.org/shr-unstable/images/om-gta02/. Recommended: old-images/shr-*--20090808-om-gta02.rootfs.* |
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| 01:50.56 | naquan | Hi everyone :) |
| 01:54.25 | DocScrutinizer51 | hi |
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| 02:08.48 | naquan | DocScrutinizer51: hi :) |
| 02:11.01 | DocScrutinizer51 | hi |
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| 02:24.52 | naquan | DocScrutinizer51: have you ever tried Debian on your phone? I 'm searching information on how to get it installed. I wonder if it has any problem with the performance. |
| 02:26.29 | DocScrutinizer51 | nope, sorry |
| 02:26.50 | DocScrutinizer51 | there are others that did though |
| 02:30.26 | naquan | :) thank you, i'll try to search somewhere else. |
| 02:33.21 | fredrin | DocScrutinizer51: you got me hooked on n900 |
| 02:33.40 | fredrin | i'll blame you if i do some criminal things to the money |
| 02:33.40 | fredrin | get |
| 02:34.11 | SpeedEvil | The only major complaint I have about it is the _shockingly_ bad front camera. |
| 02:34.22 | SpeedEvil | s/ajo/ino/ |
| 02:34.28 | fredrin | it got two |
| 02:34.39 | SpeedEvil | yes |
| 02:34.45 | SpeedEvil | the main camera is OK. |
| 02:35.11 | SpeedEvil | It's not a DSLR - but it takes OK 2MP or so effective pics in reasonable light. |
| 02:35.11 | fredrin | one can use that to have live video as i understand it |
| 02:35.16 | SpeedEvil | yes. |
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| 02:36.22 | fredrin | only bad thing i read so fare, that could maybe put me off for next hardware rev is that the usb-plug is a bit easy to break loose |
| 02:36.30 | fredrin | so you cant charge it.... |
| 02:36.37 | fredrin | but that's a warranty problem |
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| 02:38.17 | fredrin | DocScrutinizer51: hey, learned some more fun facts about the n900 |
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| 02:41.28 | DocScrutinizer51 | fredrin, go ahead |
| 02:41.48 | ndnihil | is listening |
| 02:46.58 | fredrin_ | was more of a question |
| 02:47.15 | fredrin_ | :) but i've been reading about it all day |
| 02:49.24 | fredrin_ | seams like the success of hte n900 comes a bit as a suprise for nokia |
| 02:49.28 | fredrin_ | sold out everywhere in norway |
| 02:50.32 | DocScrutinizer51 | heh XD |
| 02:51.18 | DocScrutinizer51 | actuall I'm pleased to hear this |
| 02:51.33 | fredrin_ | i played with it irl today at a store |
| 02:51.38 | fredrin_ | i liked the size |
| 02:52.47 | DocScrutinizer51 | nah, too small ;-D |
| 02:53.38 | fredrin_ | nah, more just right |
| 02:53.42 | fredrin_ | fits in the pocet |
| 02:53.45 | fredrin_ | pocket |
| 02:53.47 | fredrin_ | partyfriendly |
| 02:54.26 | fredrin_ | but how to get the money.... |
| 02:54.29 | fredrin_ | fast |
| 02:54.33 | fredrin_ | hmmm |
| 02:54.35 | fredrin_ | that's the problem |
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| 03:00.04 | fredrin | DocScrutinizer51: you havent discovered any more fun things with it? |
| 03:01.59 | DocScrutinizer51 | yep, just learnt it has gesture recognoition like in "face down mutes ringtone" |
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| 03:04.19 | DocScrutinizer51 | idiots cramming the 256MB NAND / while 32GB iMMC are just -/MyDocuments |
| 03:05.15 | DocScrutinizer51 | bat down to... wait |
| 03:06.07 | DocScrutinizer51 | 8% after 20h of parially heavy usage |
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| 03:19.40 | fredrin | how heavy? |
| 03:20.15 | fredrin | as i understand it, battery time is something that will be improved with software |
| 03:20.32 | fredrin | how many mA is the battery? |
| 03:20.40 | fredrin | can you use the FR bat, lol? |
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| 03:23.31 | DocScrutinizer51 | heavy like 10h active use. |
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| 03:24.05 | DocScrutinizer51 | that won't improve much with sw uppdates |
| 03:25.02 | DocScrutinizer51 | (heavy) 5 chan IRC and SIP all the time |
| 03:26.15 | DocScrutinizer51 | plus some GPS which I forgot to stop for an hour or two |
| 03:26.50 | DocScrutinizer51 | actually that's better than I ever expected |
| 03:28.04 | DocScrutinizer51 | the first 10h when it's been sitting 'idle' it used some 10% |
| 03:41.23 | rozzin | I actually... like the FreeRunner's broad, flat, non-slip sides. |
| 03:41.42 | fredrin | i like the freerunner too :) |
| 03:41.54 | fredrin | need to find a good use for it if i get a n900 |
| 03:42.02 | rozzin | I gather that I have large hands, though. |
| 03:42.10 | fredrin | :) |
| 03:42.20 | fredrin | sucks with the illume keyboard then |
| 03:42.33 | fredrin | my index finger has gotten a longer nail now |
| 03:42.35 | rozzin | Nah, Illume's keyboard works great for me. |
| 03:42.42 | rozzin | Actually, it's funny-- |
| 03:42.59 | fredrin | my body adapts |
| 03:47.54 | rozzin | for typing English with the smart keyboard, |
| 03:48.12 | rozzin | I often don't even need to look at it anymore. |
| 03:49.06 | rozzin | It's just learned to correctly guess the words that I want based upon their `shapes'. |
| 03:57.33 | fredrin | DocScrutinizer51: how long is the bat life if you turn off all the fancy stuff and just want to be availibel with gsm and sms, like say if you go out in the woods for some time, just want to be reachable nothing more |
| 03:58.51 | DocScrutinizer51 | no idea |
| 03:59.42 | DocScrutinizer51 | prolly so long I impossibly could tell after 4 days |
| 04:00.15 | fredrin | :) of course you havent tested that cenario yet, hehe |
| 04:00.38 | DocScrutinizer51 | got my 2 low bat warning ATM |
| 04:04.49 | DocScrutinizer51 | see: the first 10h of passive standby (with WLAN!) ate some 10% |
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| 04:07.34 | fredrin | DocScrutinizer51: how does the n900 stay connected all the time? even in suspend/ 0mhz? |
| 04:07.59 | fredrin | like if i'm connected to skype,msn,irc |
| 04:08.18 | fredrin | does it buffer? |
| 04:08.20 | fredrin | i dont get it |
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| 04:08.46 | DocScrutinizer51 | goes out of 0clock on each inbound packet |
| 04:09.51 | fredrin | but if you use like msn or irc, you get packets all the time |
| 04:10.01 | fredrin | so it will never be 0clock for a long time? |
| 04:10.27 | DocScrutinizer51 | FR goes out of suspend, but as that takes much longer and even lits backlight, I only got 16h of IRC standby |
| 04:11.11 | fredrin | does the FR wake up if it gets gprs packets? |
| 04:11.50 | DocScrutinizer51 | yep sure |
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| 04:12.04 | fredrin | did not know that |
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| 04:25.56 | raster | rozzin: thats the main good bit about the illume kbd |
| 04:26.08 | raster | it learns your habits and word usage and its guesses get better the more you use it |
| 04:26.19 | raster | for terminal ist nothing fanncy - terminal mode does the job |
| 04:26.28 | raster | but for "english" it should be good |
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| 04:28.02 | DocScrutinizer-8 | raster! |
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| 04:33.12 | raster | docz! |
| 04:35.19 | slaxxer | tell us what u can raster |
| 04:36.32 | raster | my pants are on |
| 04:37.05 | DocScrutinizer-8 | great news :-P |
| 04:39.52 | fredrin | thank good |
| 04:39.54 | fredrin | god |
| 04:41.34 | raster | i suspect the people around me are thankful too |
| 04:44.43 | DocScrutinizer-8 | nice korean girls? taiwanese) or just your neighbours? |
| 04:49.17 | raster | just neighbours |
| 04:49.18 | raster | :) |
| 04:51.19 | DocScrutinizer-8 | actually your hemisphere is a better place to be ATM |
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| 04:54.16 | raster | it is? |
| 04:54.20 | raster | which one are you in? |
| 04:54.35 | DocScrutinizer-8 | better climate |
| 04:55.04 | DocScrutinizer-8 | the cold one ;-D |
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| 05:11.16 | DocScrutinizer-8 | raster: zero-clock definitely is the way to go. really awesome |
| 05:11.50 | Q-Master | morning! |
| 05:12.17 | DocScrutinizer-8 | night |
| 05:12.31 | KenYoung | Very early morning |
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| 05:16.27 | raster | DocScrutinizer-8: told ya :) zero clock is awesome |
| 05:17.26 | DocScrutinizer-8 | especially on a SoC with really some grunt |
| 05:18.31 | rozzin | Very early. |
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| 05:51.49 | Undrwater | can someone explain the benefit of shr-today? |
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| 05:57.58 | gonzoism | Undrwater: high resource usage ? |
| 05:58.19 | Undrwater | gonzoism: yeah...that could be a benefit ;) |
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| 05:59.52 | Undrwater | grr |
| 06:00.06 | gonzoism | Undrwater: it locks the screen, shows you notifications about missed calls and sms messages, shows the time, date, battery status, network status, and has a pretty little picture. that is kind of self evident, though. |
| 06:01.49 | fredrin_ | DocScrutinizer: can you use the FR battery on the n900? |
| 06:01.55 | gonzoism | have a more specific question about it ? i don't really understand why you are asking. |
| 06:21.25 | gonzoism | if i want to print from the freerunner, i have to install cups, don't i ? |
| 06:22.27 | gonzoism | i think so. to print to a shared printer. |
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| 06:47.44 | PaulFertser | fredrin_: i doubt that. |
| 06:47.54 | PaulFertser | gonzoism: cups would probably be an overkill i think |
| 06:49.05 | PaulFertser | gonzoism: to print over the network to a sane network server you just need some very lightweight lpr implementation to send ps/pdf to the server, no need for the whole cups infrastracture unless you really need all that advanced stuff that comes with it. |
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| 06:50.56 | gonzoism | ok |
| 06:52.41 | gonzoism | libxp-static - 1:1.0.0-r1.4 - X Printing Extension (Xprint) client library |
| 06:52.55 | gonzoism | that probably isn't what i am looking for, is it ? |
| 06:52.57 | PaulFertser | DocScrutinizer: one possible downside of the 0-clock technology is that when you have some runaway process eating up cpu constantly you might not notice that until your battery is flat. |
| 06:53.15 | PaulFertser | gonzoism: probably some x clients need it but it's not essential for printing in general. |
| 06:55.33 | gonzoism | thanks |
| 07:05.21 | PaulFertser | gonzoism: another idea: http://impressive.net/archives/fogo/3B775FDB.DA121DDE@w3.org |
| 07:16.58 | PaulFertser | gonzoism: hey, i found something that is easy to use and compatible with cups out of the box: http://www.pykota.com/software/pkipplib/ |
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| 07:22.12 | gonzoism | thanks ! i didn't like the other one. printing has always been a weak subject for me |
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| 12:08.27 | DocScrutinizer | PaulFertser: correct. Have a loadmeter installed (btw on nearly any device with a cpu I own) to stop that - 5h after I opened the box ;-) |
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| 12:46.18 | pbaxter | hi all |
| 12:47.59 | tomcatek | ho |
| 12:48.01 | tomcatek | hi |
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| 17:41.06 | PBeck | hi |
| 17:41.34 | DocScrutinizer51 | hi |
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| 19:07.46 | spacepluk | hi, which shr image do you recommend for stability? I've just flashed one but if seems that the touchscreen is not working. |
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| 19:16.47 | tomcatek | spacepluk: best is unstable :) if You know thing or two about linux, You can manage the unstability (which is rather rare) |
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| 19:23.01 | spacepluk | tomcatek: thanks tomcatek, I can handle a debian sid but there is a lot of different stuff here :P |
| 19:24.51 | tomcatek | spacepluk: there is wiki, |
| 19:24.58 | tomcatek | helpful developers |
| 19:25.18 | tomcatek | if I can manage, so can You :] |
| 19:26.34 | spacepluk | I'm downloading these: |
| 19:26.40 | spacepluk | http://build.shr-project.org/shr-unstable/images/om-gta02/full-om-gta02.jffs2 |
| 19:26.50 | spacepluk | http://build.shr-project.org/shr-unstable/images/om-gta02/uImage-2.6.29-oe11+gitr119860+b90406de472c1aa5371ab593a2bb79136d5de658-r6-om-gta02.bin |
| 19:27.05 | spacepluk | do you know if it's ok? |
| 19:27.16 | tomcatek | should be |
| 19:27.25 | tomcatek | but I prefer lite |
| 19:27.33 | tomcatek | less apps |
| 19:27.35 | Ddorda | spacepluk: i heard it's the best SHR ever released |
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| 19:27.47 | spacepluk | cool :P |
| 19:27.48 | Ddorda | the best version |
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| 19:28.10 | tomcatek | spacepluk: i like to have installed only thise stuff I'm using :] |
| 19:29.16 | spacepluk | I'd like to test everything first :) Then I'll decide if It's worth installing debian on the SD :) |
| 19:31.59 | Ddorda | i'm about to install the latest SHR now |
| 19:32.13 | Ddorda | or more right is that i'm going to flash it :P |
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| 19:33.30 | Ddorda | so i'll tell you how it is in about half hour |
| 19:34.14 | spacepluk | I'm flashing too :) |
| 19:34.47 | Ddorda | btw, the ubifs file is the rootfs and the uimage is the kernel? i can't remember :\ |
| 19:34.53 | Ddorda | my last flashing was long time ago |
| 19:35.26 | tomcatek | Ddorda: You are right about those files |
| 19:35.47 | Ddorda | i see. thanks :D |
| 19:36.14 | Ddorda | SHR uses a new bootloader or splash? so i'll flash these too in the same time |
| 19:36.28 | spacepluk | ubifs? I'm flashing te jffs2 file, are they different? |
| 19:37.17 | Ddorda | i guess it's a different file system, but i'ts only a guess |
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| 20:06.31 | spacepluk | wow, much better than the last time I checked |
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| 20:07.48 | spacepluk | the scroll is still slow |
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| 20:17.38 | spacepluk | is there any way to improve rendering speed? |
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| 20:22.58 | mwester | change the theme |
| 20:26.00 | spacepluk | mwester: any suggestion? |
| 20:26.26 | mwester | nope. I didn't follow the emails closely enough to know with themes it was. Check the shr mailing list archives. |
| 20:26.52 | spacepluk | mwester: thanks |
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| 21:08.16 | spacepluk | I guess that iphone like scrolling speed is not possible |
| 21:13.20 | Weiss | spacepluk: with full acceleration, it could easily go that faster |
| 21:13.38 | Weiss | it's a question of whether people are willing to put in so much platform specific code to enable that |
| 21:13.46 | Weiss | that fast* |
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| 21:22.02 | spacepluk | platform specific? |
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| 21:25.40 | Weiss | yeah.. it'd mean writing code to directly talk to the hardware. the framework is all there, but the problem is that the acceleration provided by X and the toolkits isn't enough (in fact, it slows things down) |
| 21:26.27 | spacepluk | so by platform spec |
| 21:26.35 | spacepluk | s/spec/specific/ |
| 21:26.54 | spacepluk | you mean X drivers? |
| 21:30.29 | spacepluk | or you mean that current acceleration is the best we can get with X |
| 21:30.43 | Weiss | more than that. The toolkits need to pass commands to the X driver that make sense when accelerating. Currently, amongst other things, they try to accelerate far too much |
| 21:30.52 | Weiss | (or far too little) |
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| 21:35.13 | spacepluk | So the lowlevel layer is covered? It's just a matter of proper integration with the toolkits? |
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| 21:39.20 | Weiss | kind of. take scrolling, for example. E ends up redrawing the whole screen (almost) every frame. GTK would send loads of tiny copies and fills to draw the different bits of the thing being scrolled |
| 21:39.46 | Weiss | if instead we uploaded the thing to scroll in advance (to the GPU) and told it to redraw at different positions, it'd go at more than 100fps |
| 21:40.07 | spacepluk | hmm |
| 21:40.17 | spacepluk | I'd like to try that |
| 21:40.32 | Weiss | so would I :) .. I have a demo of it in the pipeline |
| 21:40.53 | spacepluk | :) |
| 21:41.24 | spacepluk | I've done some work on settopboxes with qt and directfb |
| 21:42.19 | spacepluk | I was surprised with the phone being that slow |
| 21:43.05 | Weiss | yeah. for our hardware, redrawing everything isn't great. redrawing little tiny bits GTK-style is worse, though |
| 21:43.08 | spacepluk | I guess that there're ways to impe |
| 21:43.11 | spacepluk | sorry |
| 21:43.20 | spacepluk | s/impe/implement/ |
| 21:43.27 | spacepluk | proper scroll through the toolkits |
| 21:43.53 | spacepluk | at least with Qt you can |
| 21:44.03 | Weiss | I find scrolling actually pretty smooth with the latest DRM stack |
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| 21:45.00 | spacepluk | Where can I get it? |
| 21:45.23 | spacepluk | here the launcher scrolls at barely 2fps |
| 21:45.56 | spacepluk | some menus and smaller scroll areas are pretty smooth though |
| 21:46.28 | Weiss | hmm.. I haven't tried scrolling the launcher. scrolling in Contacts is nice, though |
| 21:47.18 | Weiss | probably around 10fps |
| 21:48.48 | spacepluk | that's much better :P |
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| 21:55.47 | spacepluk | what are the .ubi and ubifs images? |
| 21:57.23 | PaulFertser | spacepluk: cool new fast filesystem. Doesn't work yet :) |
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| 21:58.22 | spacepluk | PaulFertser: cool :P |
| 22:01.54 | spacepluk | is it also faster on smaller chips? |
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| 22:04.07 | max_posedon | spacepluk, its mainly designed for nand's |
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| 23:52.39 | gonzoism | if you rm /usr/share/webkit-1.0/resources/error.html you can then install eve (enlightenment web browser) |
| 23:53.29 | gonzoism | i want edbus-ehal so I can install paroli. |
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