IRC log for #openmoko on 20091019

00:02.17*** join/#openmoko UnknownArtists (n=unknown@84.19.199.151)
00:02.46slaxxerprobly
00:09.36*** join/#openmoko peter__b (n=peter_b@93.133.192.145)
00:12.27*** join/#openmoko raster (n=raster@enlightenment/developer/raster)
00:22.25*** join/#openmoko objorn (n=objorn@unaffiliated/objorn)
00:24.13*** join/#openmoko objorn (n=objorn@unaffiliated/objorn)
00:46.38*** join/#openmoko KenYoung (n=Ken@pool-151-203-33-128.bos.east.verizon.net)
01:07.04*** join/#openmoko Defiant- (i=erik@213.39.224.182)
01:11.19*** join/#openmoko pablomino (n=pablo@201.215.181.49)
01:11.48*** part/#openmoko pablomino (n=pablo@201.215.181.49)
01:16.33*** join/#openmoko kardan| (n=kardan@p54BE4859.dip.t-dialin.net)
02:01.49*** join/#openmoko holycow (n=new@mail.fredcanhelp.com)
02:02.18*** join/#openmoko dohhe (n=johan@S010600242caa3e95.cg.shawcable.net)
02:02.26*** part/#openmoko dohhe (n=johan@S010600242caa3e95.cg.shawcable.net)
02:09.08*** join/#openmoko Amorphous (i=jan@unaffiliated/amorphous)
02:10.55*** join/#openmoko soltys (i=soltys@soltys.soad.pl)
02:12.16*** join/#openmoko pcfe (n=pcfe@a88-115-29-119.elisa-laajakaista.fi)
02:29.06*** join/#openmoko arw_1 (i=foobar@201.244.108.170)
02:57.08*** join/#openmoko HellDragon (i=jd@modemcable178.248-201-24.mc.videotron.ca)
02:58.23*** join/#openmoko radekp (n=radek@88.146.48.30)
02:59.55*** join/#openmoko retracile_ (n=eli@76-204-213-211.lightspeed.allntx.sbcglobal.net)
03:00.11*** join/#openmoko retracile__ (n=eli@76-204-213-211.lightspeed.allntx.sbcglobal.net)
03:20.32*** join/#openmoko soltys (i=soltys@soltys.soad.pl)
03:20.32*** join/#openmoko C7 (n=C7@zux006-058-029.adsl.green.ch) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]
03:20.32*** join/#openmoko mwester (n=mwester@nslu2-linux/mwester)
03:20.32*** join/#openmoko beers (n=beer@fw.agrsci.dk) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]
03:20.33*** join/#openmoko mmontour (n=mmontour@S01060016b606e65a.vc.shawcable.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]
03:20.33*** join/#openmoko xcasexwrka (n=rrg@h-62-20.A163.priv.bahnhof.se) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]
03:20.33*** join/#openmoko univac (n=univac@148.81.171.50)
03:21.26*** join/#openmoko holycow (n=new@mail.fredcanhelp.com)
03:30.13*** join/#openmoko vininim (n=vininim@pdpc/supporter/student/vininim)
03:34.53*** join/#openmoko eolson (n=eolson@c-24-13-244-61.hsd1.il.comcast.net)
03:44.14*** join/#openmoko batti112 (n=batti@dslb-088-078-023-005.pools.arcor-ip.net)
03:47.44*** join/#openmoko Kame2 (n=manuel@port-92-196-45-64.dynamic.qsc.de)
04:19.52*** join/#openmoko soman (n=somnath@115.119.41.110)
04:30.14*** join/#openmoko droid001 (n=g1@p4FDCDC5A.dip.t-dialin.net)
04:31.11*** join/#openmoko yanu (n=yanu@d54C5F808.access.telenet.be)
04:31.39*** join/#openmoko beer (n=beer@77.212.13.203)
04:33.30*** join/#openmoko DocScrutinizer (n=jr@85.116.194.200)
04:36.52*** join/#openmoko alephnull (n=alok@122.172.39.204)
04:45.25*** join/#openmoko AlexC (n=alexc@ppp59-167-38-182.lns2.cbr1.internode.on.net)
04:49.00*** join/#openmoko DocScrutinizer-8 (n=jr-N810@200.194.116.85.dsl.manitu.net)
05:08.02*** join/#openmoko tjikkun (n=tjikkun@cl-511.ede-01.nl.sixxs.net)
05:11.36*** join/#openmoko edgar (n=christop@86.56.222.142)
05:52.04*** join/#openmoko emacsian (n=ram@122.167.97.157)
06:20.27*** join/#openmoko alephnull (n=alok@122.172.14.68)
06:26.37*** join/#openmoko hipitihop (n=denis@203.132.229.35)
06:33.37*** join/#openmoko beer (n=durk@ipass.solcon.nl)
06:33.48beermorning
06:36.38*** join/#openmoko dwb (n=david@a177027.upc-a.chello.nl)
06:42.39*** join/#openmoko andi (n=andi@eeepc.andi.whyi.org)
06:49.10*** join/#openmoko TAsn (n=tasn@DSL217-132-21-52.bb.netvision.net.il)
07:00.22*** join/#openmoko emacsian (n=ram@122.167.97.157)
07:02.56*** join/#openmoko two3four (n=erik@81-233-151-113-no82.business.telia.com)
07:06.39*** join/#openmoko pleemans (n=toi@d51A49C45.access.telenet.be)
07:08.10*** join/#openmoko bentob0x (n=laurent@ip-213-49-73-211.dsl.scarlet.be)
07:09.49*** join/#openmoko paul_bipless (n=pavel@ppp83-237-106-249.pppoe.mtu-net.ru)
07:17.15*** join/#openmoko polaru (n=polaru@93.113.192.70)
07:18.28*** join/#openmoko badcloud (n=raanan@ti400720a342-0902.bb.online.no)
07:39.56*** join/#openmoko N-Mi (n=nicolas@calvix/staff/N-Mi)
07:39.58*** join/#openmoko ZaPPaS (n=moritz@129.69.51.130)
07:40.32*** join/#openmoko hanez (n=hanez@hanez.org)
07:40.51*** join/#openmoko ajvogel (n=quassel@196-210-140-211-rrdg-esr-2.dynamic.isadsl.co.za)
07:41.07*** join/#openmoko jcc (n=jcchao@122-116-235-183.HINET-IP.hinet.net)
07:49.55*** join/#openmoko nullix (n=philippe@172-70.252-81.static-ip.oleane.fr)
08:01.28*** join/#openmoko pespin (n=pespin@cisne-cn14.upc.es)
08:08.08*** join/#openmoko Kame2 (n=manuel@92.196.67.177)
08:13.32*** join/#openmoko Heinervdm (n=thomas@pD9E16850.dip.t-dialin.net)
08:27.35*** join/#openmoko PaulFertser_ (n=pavel@ppp83-237-107-143.pppoe.mtu-net.ru)
08:30.03*** join/#openmoko zedstar (n=john@fsf/member/zedstar)
08:40.30*** join/#openmoko Gyb (n=Gyb@g224237159.adsl.alicedsl.de)
08:40.51*** join/#openmoko thannoy (n=thannoy@62.160.20.144)
08:41.10*** join/#openmoko Free_maN (n=Free_maN@217.174.199.201)
08:49.18*** join/#openmoko m0nt0 (n=monto@151.57.204.160)
08:52.07*** join/#openmoko xaid_ (n=xaid@S0106002129a18c3f.ed.shawcable.net)
08:52.23*** join/#openmoko Arigead (n=Rupert@83-71-15-35-dynamic.b-ras1.dbn.dublin.eircom.net)
09:04.13*** join/#openmoko bmm (n=bram@195-240-186-6.ip.telfort.nl)
09:13.36*** join/#openmoko xaid (n=xaid@S0106002129a18c3f.ed.shawcable.net)
09:24.27*** join/#openmoko ericthefish (n=ericthef@217.113.163.70)
09:31.53*** join/#openmoko Superevildeath (n=pot|deat@212.206.209.177)
09:32.57*** join/#openmoko max_posedon (n=max_pose@87.252.243.177)
09:36.58Superevildeathjust wonder what exactly will the "debugger board" for the openmoko phone allow me to do or not to do ( yeah i know i most likely don't need it if i'm asking this but still )
09:39.28Kamping_Kaiserthe debug board page on the wiki should explain pretty well. does it miss something?
09:39.41*** join/#openmoko nio_ (n=nio@d594e5f2.dsl.concepts.nl)
09:40.09Superevildeathi spotted it in the store let me check the wiki :)
09:40.10Superevildeathty
09:42.47*** join/#openmoko beers (n=beer@fw.agrsci.dk)
09:46.29Psidoes this need updating, got it from wiki but doesnt work "mdbus -s org.freesmartphone.ogsmd /org/freesmartphone/GSM/Device org.freesmartphone.GSM.Device.GetInfo"
09:46.37Psisupposed to show gsm firmware
09:53.47*** join/#openmoko MHazem (n=Satan@41.130.235.117)
09:56.03PaulFertserPsi: doesn't it work?
09:56.56Psiim just rebooting the neo, i suspect something may have been screwed with when i was working on something else a few hours ago
09:58.16Psiyep, its working now
09:58.39Psii ran that script to test for #1024 it must have left frameworkd in a weird state
09:59.04*** join/#openmoko geaaru (n=geaaru@79.30.224.235)
10:00.15PsiPaulFertser: any idea what sort of % current reduction deep sleep gives?
10:00.21PaulFertserPsi: you shouldn't run the script. If there's recamping, frameworkd will leave a trace in its log for sure.
10:00.35PaulFertserPsi: on gta01?
10:00.37Psiya
10:01.01PaulFertserPsi: well, i measured ~7mA in suspend without gsm iirc, does it correspond with your results?
10:01.43Psiyeah, thats much less than what i got with deep sleep disabled
10:01.57Superevildeathjust wondering will qemu run on the openmoko phone itself ( yes the goal is to run x86 stuff ) ?
10:01.58Psifrom memory it was around 30mA or something
10:02.01PaulFertserPsi: what about with gsm disabled? 7mA is with everything disabled.
10:02.10lindi-i get 3 mA if gsm is disable according to current_now
10:02.17Psilindi-: gta01?
10:02.20lindi-gta02
10:03.40PsiPaulFertser: i cant remember, it was a while ago, but i never got anywhere near 7mA
10:03.41PaulFertserPsi: i guess with deep sleep you'll have ~13mA with gsm on and ~21 without deep sleep.
10:03.44Kamping_KaiserSuperevildeath: its probably technically possible, but i wouldn't
10:04.02PaulFertserPsi: probably you didn't disable the amplifier which for some unknown reason wasn't turned off automaticalyl.
10:04.13Psiyeah, i heard about that
10:04.39*** join/#openmoko edje2 (n=chatzill@ckpceka.ipv6.kapitein.org)
10:04.40Psidoes that issue still exist or is it fixed in the unstable image now?
10:05.01*** join/#openmoko ajbrun (n=ajbrun@host86-153-226-10.range86-153.btcentralplus.com)
10:05.07PaulFertserPsi: not fixed, no reason to care about it until .31 is ready.
10:07.19Psifair enough
10:08.36PaulFertserPsi: is it hard to source a suitable cap for 1024 fix there?
10:08.49*** join/#openmoko azaghal (n=azaghal@91.148.114.131)
10:08.55Psiwhere?
10:09.54Psii dont think i have the issue, so haven't looking into soldering a cap in
10:12.10DocScrutinizer-8Psi: you'll never know if you have this 1024 issue or not. Esp not until you set calypso-deep-sleep=always, and let your Neo cool down to lower ambient temp
10:12.32Psiive set it to always
10:12.37Psithats why i was testing
10:12.44Psididnt know about the temp thing tho
10:12.56DocScrutinizer-8Psi: even then recamping might go unnoticed
10:13.27Defiant-will never notice that bug
10:14.02DocScrutinizer-8the only way to detect is you're not reachable for inbound calls, your device is sending repeatedly frequently, and your bat drains really fast
10:14.38DocScrutinizer-8(if device in suspend)
10:14.57*** join/#openmoko Kame2 (n=manuel@port-92-196-45-64.dynamic.qsc.de)
10:15.17DocScrutinizer-8if device not in suspend, the "auto-heating" probably stops any 1024
10:15.24PaulFertserPsi: you'll see recamping indication in the framework log
10:15.31Psii have the log open now
10:15.50Psidoes it use the word recamping?
10:15.52PaulFertserPsi: grep for -i recamping
10:15.53DocScrutinizer-8PaulFertser: no log during suspend
10:16.04PaulFertserDocScrutinizer-8: fo sure
10:16.43Psihm.. it appears i do have the bug to some degree
10:16.53Psii have 1 recamp entry in the log
10:17.18DocScrutinizer-8a good idea is to get one of those "ring-extenders" that start yelling when detecting any GSM TX in vicinity
10:17.46Psiyeah, i think i have one of those led antenna things somewhere
10:18.03Psimight work if i put it up close to the ant
10:18.20Psior i could just put the phone on top of a amp :P
10:18.35DocScrutinizer-8Psi: if it starts going mad - like flashing every 30sec - you know the 1024 hit you
10:19.44*** join/#openmoko otypoks (n=e55c2403@xkh1g1.infr.xiaoka.com)
10:19.59*** join/#openmoko emacsian (n=ram@122.167.97.157)
10:20.02Psiwill the tx power be the same as a phone call to the neo
10:20.06*** join/#openmoko dns53 (n=dns@ppp246-215.static.internode.on.net)
10:20.12DocScrutinizer-8yep
10:20.20Psii put it on top of my amp and called it to get the volume right
10:20.30Psinow i have it all set so i can hear if i have gsm act
10:20.35DocScrutinizer-8probably even higher, as registering works with max TX power iirc
10:21.29DocScrutinizer-8now you only need to set aircon to 8C ;-P
10:21.42Psinothing so far
10:22.06DocScrutinizer-8Psi: this will come at random
10:22.07Psiphone is in suspend and amp is just normal hiss
10:23.00DocScrutinizer-8you need to observe for days or weeks. Told you you'll never know you are *not* affected by 1024  in the future
10:23.06Psisounds like it might be easier just to solder the cap in
10:23.21DocScrutinizer-8yep. you bet it is
10:23.43Psihas the cap fix be proven to work?
10:23.47Psiive not really looked into it
10:23.47DocScrutinizer-8or stay with deepsleep=2
10:23.52Psibe=been
10:24.05DocScrutinizer-8yep, is certified to work
10:24.14Psikinda need the extra power saving on gta01
10:28.07Psiwhat size cap is that, (the existing one)  0603?
10:28.42Psihm. looks bigger
10:29.40DocScrutinizer-8Psi: you might want to check BOM in my people dir somewhere
10:38.25Psifound it, 0805
10:38.49Psinice and big, should be pretty easy to fix :)
10:39.13Psimaybe i'll make a video of the fix and put it on youtube
10:39.37DocScrutinizer-8good
10:41.02*** join/#openmoko cz_jc (n=jc@88.146.126.102)
10:41.15DocScrutinizer-8though I'd suggest to add a 10uF instead of replacing the original C. Seems easier
10:42.49Psiyeah
10:46.55Psimin qty 25, heh
10:47.12Psinot that i was expecting being able to buy 1
10:50.25PaulFertserPsi: beware it was reported the cap is extremely hard to desolder on gta01
10:50.26DocScrutinizer-8you might be able to find qty 1 at local electronic or repair shop
10:50.57PsiPaulFertser: wont remove it, as DocScrutinizer-8 said, gunna be easier to add one
10:51.21PaulFertserPsi: you can place some insulator and add an additional cap soldering it to the left side of the original and to the can holder.
10:51.23PsiDocScrutinizer-8: probably, but id rather just get 25
10:51.33DocScrutinizer-8yeah, always listen to your Doc ;-)
10:51.41Psidont have any 10uf's in my collection of smt caps
10:51.45PaulFertserDocScrutinizer-8: on 2 gta02s i reworked i dismounted the original
10:51.50Psijust got 1 and .1
10:52.41*** join/#openmoko thrashold (n=europan@3mhz.net)
10:52.45Psithis looks like what ill probably do http://wiki.openmoko.org/images/1/13/1024fix.jpg
10:53.22*** join/#openmoko emacsian (n=ram@122.167.97.157)
10:53.29Psihard part is going to be getting some flux under the shield so the solder will stick
10:54.51Psiyay, just found i do have some 10uf
10:55.17PaulFertserPsi: (flux) don't you have liquid flux?
10:55.30Psii have a pen i normally use when soldering to metal like that
10:56.41DocScrutinizer-8use a small ball of floss and soak it with flux. Then use a pair of tweezers to apply
10:57.00Psithat sounds like a good idea
10:58.18Psii do have some liquid flux but its so damn strong i try not to use it as it tends to get all over me and ruin my cloths :P
10:58.35Psipulls the dyes out
10:59.02DocScrutinizer-8you can even cut and bend upper flat frame of can base, to form a convenient small contact to solder C to
11:00.01Psihm..
11:00.36Psigot some 10uf 16v x5r 1206 which should do the trick :)
11:00.37DocScrutinizer-8or siply solde a short wire on top of the upper flat area, and then push down so it's below plane of can lid
11:01.13Psiyeah
11:02.26DocScrutinizer-8you should apply some (hot-)glue then to fixate the C
11:02.57Psigot plenty of that
11:04.52*** join/#openmoko Tanuva (n=tanuva@p5B10B727.dip.t-dialin.net)
11:06.49DocScrutinizer-8Psi: I'd prefer a decent fotofootage over a video
11:07.05SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer: heretic!
11:07.13SpeedEvilYoutube will come and kill you.
11:07.20Psiheh
11:07.27Psii can do both
11:07.29SpeedEvil5fps 320*200 badly encoded noisy video is good enough for anyone?
11:07.39SpeedEvils/?/!/
11:07.41DocScrutinizer-8yeah, sure
11:08.06Psii can do nice clear photos with my EOS 40D
11:08.09DocScrutinizer-8esp when done without zoom and without macro
11:08.27DocScrutinizer-8Psi: that sounds way more useful
11:08.39Psieasier to setup that video too
11:08.43Psithat=than
11:09.04DocScrutinizer-8you can send to me in a PM and I'll upload to people.om, if you like
11:09.10Psicant do photos of my actually soldering it tho, as i dont have 4 arms
11:09.16Psi*me
11:09.43Psivideo would be useful to people pondering how easy/hard it is to actually do the work
11:10.10SpeedEvilkidnaps Psi, and implants an extra couple of arms.
11:10.18DocScrutinizer-8you think, by counting the swearwords during that video ;-P
11:10.25Psiheh
11:10.34Psii dont suspect it will be that hard
11:10.57Psicant be harder than hand etching a board for 100TQFP and soldering it on
11:11.53DocScrutinizer-8hand-etching. Heh, you're the unknown one of X-MEN?
11:12.07beersI am lookin after another open source based phone instead of FR and have heard about the N900. Is that phone any good?
11:12.22SpeedEvilbeers: it is the last best hope for peace.
11:12.30DocScrutinizer-8N900 isn't open source
11:12.32SpeedEvilbeers: oh no that was the babylon stations.
11:12.35Kamping_Kaiserits not usable without prorpieatyr software
11:12.38SpeedEviln900 is largely open source.
11:12.39Kamping_Kaiser*proprietary
11:12.48SpeedEvilThere are currently large slices of the UI proprietory.
11:12.57DocScrutinizer-8yep
11:12.58SpeedEvilhowever - from a users point of view - it's very opensource.
11:13.00dns53the phone stack on the n900 is suppose to be fully open
11:13.12DocScrutinizer-8muhaha
11:13.13Kamping_Kaiseryou can't chargea battery without proprietary software
11:13.14mjrdns53, it's actually fully proprietary
11:13.15SpeedEvilYou can for example install gcc, and start developing apps on the phone.
11:13.19Psiheh, well i mean home etching with the laser printer method and then hand etching in fecl3
11:13.24mjrdns53, though apparently they're working on a free replacement
11:13.32beersis there a phone with fewer problem than FR and more open source than N900?
11:13.43SpeedEvilbeers: yes
11:13.47DocScrutinizer-8mer does that work
11:13.59beersSpeedEvil: whitch one?
11:14.00DocScrutinizer-8not maemo/nokia though
11:14.15PsiSpeedEvil: heh @ b5 comment
11:14.18dns53mjr my mistake, i thought they released the full phone stack ages ago
11:14.22SpeedEvilhttp://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=286
11:14.24SpeedEvilbeers
11:14.28Psilove how the later intro was "it failed"
11:14.29SpeedEvilIt is opensource.
11:14.30SpeedEvilBut...
11:15.57SpeedEviln900 is probably the least bad - by a long way - of 'current' phones.
11:15.57DocScrutinizer-8for now not even the api of phonestack is public
11:16.22Kamping_Kaisermost android handsets would be as open as n900s, if not more
11:16.31Kamping_Kaiserfrom what i've seen
11:16.39*** join/#openmoko azaghal (n=azaghal@212.178.230.200)
11:17.19beersaftewr what google did to some boy who was makde a image of adnorid I would not suport them
11:17.22SpeedEvilKamping_Kaiser: Only the 'dev mode' handsets
11:17.42SpeedEvilKamping_Kaiser: and by open, I mean the default openness when you buy it.
11:18.06beershttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Android_%28operating_system%29#Community-based_firmware
11:18.31Psiread about TI going after some people who made a new OS for the TI calculators week ago or so
11:19.21Kamping_KaiserSpeedEvil: that i can't comment on
11:19.25Psiim guessing they were scared of their calculators being banned from school exams
11:19.46DocScrutinizer-8new OS for TI clculators? Damn, that's really needed
11:20.42*** join/#openmoko emacsian (n=ram@122.167.97.157)
11:20.45TanuvaPsi: lol
11:21.11Psiyeah
11:21.34Psisome of their calcs have an exam mode that locks out some features
11:21.39SpeedEvilThe emitters of the oscillator transistors are connected to ground, the collectors to 100R resistors to +, the bases to 10K resistors to +, and the capacitors are connected from the emitter of one transistor to the base of the other.
11:21.39SpeedEviloops
11:22.00Tanuvaoh, didn't know about that
11:22.45DocScrutinizer-8SpeedEvil: he astable multivibrator that's called here
11:23.22Psihm.. getting late here, better sleep. Well.. BSG then sleep :)
11:23.24DocScrutinizer-8and the C are from collector of one to base of other, not emitter
11:23.25Psinite
11:23.53DocScrutinizer-8Psi:.au?
11:23.58Psinz
11:24.01SpeedEvilerr - yes
11:24.06Kamping_KaiserPsi: later mate
11:24.06DocScrutinizer-8Psi: anyway, nite
11:24.19Psisee ya
11:24.32SpeedEvilnight
11:24.39*** join/#openmoko max_posedon (n=max_pose@87.252.243.177)
11:27.01*** join/#openmoko emacsian (n=ram@122.167.97.157)
11:27.07DocScrutinizer-8SpeedEvil: you knew you can sync astab MV with a much higher external signal? Like 1Hz synced to the freq of mains power
11:27.35beersdoes not look like the n900 is avalebly in denmakr yet
11:28.30DocScrutinizer-8nor in Germany
11:29.03DocScrutinizer-810-30 is current scheduled date of shipping
11:29.18*** join/#openmoko loca|host (n=tux@196.203.53.221)
11:29.42SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer: yes
11:31.31DocScrutinizer-8off for daily SOP to rescan nokia shop for another delay announced :-S
11:31.49Kamping_Kaiserheh
11:48.03*** join/#openmoko ericthefish (n=ericthef@217.113.163.70)
11:48.25*** join/#openmoko CVirus (n=Satan@41.130.235.117)
12:00.40*** join/#openmoko naeg (n=naeg@194.208.239.170)
12:07.30*** join/#openmoko dvarnes (n=davidv@203-206-128-239.perm.iinet.net.au)
12:14.30*** join/#openmoko CVirus (n=Satan@41.130.235.117)
12:20.28*** join/#openmoko emacsian (n=ram@122.167.97.157)
12:21.14*** join/#openmoko e-Flex (n=e@94.254.30.37)
12:23.05*** join/#openmoko CVirus (n=Satan@41.130.235.117)
12:27.21*** join/#openmoko ruoso (n=ruoso@201009057201.user.veloxzone.com.br)
12:30.22CIA-44openmoko: 03werner * r5695 10/trunk/gta02-core/docs/ecn/ (STATUS ecn0010.txt):
12:30.23CIA-44openmoko: Various ECN0010 updates:
12:30.23CIA-44openmoko: - use IO_3V3 to feed LDO34IN (CODEC_3V3 and IO_2V8)
12:30.23CIA-44openmoko: - rename CODEC_3V3, i.e., to CODEC_VDD
12:30.23CIA-44openmoko: - add 0R to LDO34IN, so that we can switch to Vsys if 3 V are not enough
12:30.25CIA-44openmoko: - moved to "Execute"
12:38.17*** join/#openmoko pbaxter (n=pbaxter@host119-158-dynamic.54-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it)
12:39.01*** join/#openmoko andi (n=andi@eeepc.andi.whyi.org)
12:40.52*** join/#openmoko emacsian (n=ram@122.167.97.157)
12:42.24*** join/#openmoko hax404 (n=quassel@mnhm-590d98ce.pool.mediaWays.net)
13:09.33*** join/#openmoko hax404 (n=quassel@mnhm-590d98ce.pool.mediaWays.net)
13:10.57*** join/#openmoko andi (n=andi@eeepc.andi.whyi.org)
13:18.27radekpbeers: the guy was obviously violating google
13:18.33radekpbeers: google
13:18.43radekpbeers: google's copyright
13:19.40*** join/#openmoko Rakhun (n=rakhun@78-69-84-122-no172.tbcn.telia.com)
13:19.48radekpbeers: how would you like if someone took let's say SHR and make it closed source? That would be also copyright violation
13:22.46*** join/#openmoko Ainulindale (n=ainu@calaquendi.org)
13:25.06PaulFertserradekp: one thing is if you violate copyright of evil guys and other thing is if you violate copyright of good guys.
13:26.12amarsh04anyone found a DECT system with user-modifiable software?
13:26.18PaulFertserradekp: laws exists not to follow them blindly, rather to try to bring a bit more fairness and sanity to our lives. If the law is wrong i can't see how it can be seen immoral to violate it.
13:28.00amarsh04could use a DECT handset that didn't have brain-dead timezone settings
13:28.30radekpPaulFertser: i agree, but if google is going to loose money because of it (at least they say it) then to me it's perfect ok what they did
13:30.03PaulFertserradekp: first of all, they didn't prove they migth lose money.
13:30.48PaulFertserradekp: second, they still have their shit-store to earn enough. Even on non-"googleexperience" devices.
13:31.54PaulFertserradekp: third, restricting noncommercial apps distribution (afai understand the mod is noncommercial) is plain stupid because it can't be practically done.
13:33.13PaulFertserradekp: fourth, even if they're loosing money that way, it's good because they would deserve that by treating their users bad (i.e. providing uncool non-hackable firmware).
13:33.20*** join/#openmoko retracile (n=eli@adsl-99-188-14-94.dsl.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net)
13:33.51PaulFertserradekp: not to mention goodle is evil and immoral anyway, i think the deal with chinese goverment is enough to prove this point.
13:34.12radekpPaulFertser: they are probably loosing money because they denied the apps distribution - but explain that to sales manages :)
13:34.39PaulFertserradekp: that's not my point
13:35.08PaulFertserradekp: my point is that google is evil and hence you must blame it, not defense ;)
13:35.53PaulFertserdefend
13:36.01radekpPaulFertser: oki :)
13:37.23mwestermutters something about situational ethics
13:41.51PaulFertsermwester: hey :)
13:42.01*** join/#openmoko chomwitt (n=chomwitt@ppp-94-66-148-202.home.otenet.gr)
13:42.07PaulFertsermwester: managed to break on through to the other side (of the firewall)?
13:42.37PaulFertsermwester: (in fact i can hardly imagine a corporate so draconian that it doesn't allow https and if it does, you can get ssh through it)
13:42.42*** join/#openmoko vivijim (n=vivijim@unaffiliated/vivijim)
13:43.13PaulFertsermwester: (ethics) do you have any special education in this field?
13:43.32*** join/#openmoko Ryback_ (n=ulisses@enlightenment/developer/ryback)
13:49.05*** join/#openmoko CVirus (n=Satan@41.130.235.117)
13:53.22*** part/#openmoko otypoks (n=e55c2403@xkh1g1.infr.xiaoka.com)
13:58.22mwesterno special training required to understand the basics of ethics, and why they are not ethics if you can flex them to rationalize any actions.
13:58.53mwesterAnd the corporate firewall terminates https connections that are "long-lived". :(  So no reliable ssh there.
13:59.03mwester(I'm working from the home office this week, though)
13:59.24*** join/#openmoko TeNoVi (n=runegang@195.0.166.154)
14:03.33*** join/#openmoko spydon (n=spydon@nl103-146-152.student.uu.se)
14:04.03TeNoViHi! Is there somebody who could provide me with the rootfs and kernel for "Qt Extended 4.4.3"? The link on the website is down.
14:05.47*** join/#openmoko otypoks (n=e55c2403@xkh1g1.infr.xiaoka.com)
14:25.23*** join/#openmoko emacsian (n=ram@122.167.97.157)
14:35.13rasterPaulFertser: violating copyright is illegal, and immoral. that rule isnt bendable as long as you ever want to be taken seriously
14:35.22*** join/#openmoko emacsian (n=ram@122.167.97.157)
14:35.35rasterasfor googles "with google apps" yes - they have the right to go after those distributing them without a license.
14:36.18rasterthere is no way to make it acceptable to do that as long as you want people to obey your licenses - like gpl etc.
14:37.13rasterof course google has pulled a bit of a swift one by going around all over the place that andorid is an "open platrform'and yet closing off parts of it that have been distributed as standard so far in real situations
14:37.38rasterbut they are allowed to enforce their rights
14:38.18rasterjust like you can enforce your right over your front yard if a bunch of people are camped out in it - you can kick them out. it's your yard. you dont have to prove they are causing harm or costing you money.
14:38.45rasteryou have a right and you may exercise it. its your front yard. same with their "with google" apps.
14:42.58*** join/#openmoko mnt_real (n=sinan@bas12-montrealak-1167976733.dsl.bell.ca)
14:47.26*** join/#openmoko gargoyle-grin (n=randerso@gentoo/contributor/gargoyle-grin)
14:47.29*** join/#openmoko spydon (n=spydon@nl103-146-152.student.uu.se)
14:47.43*** join/#openmoko retracile_ (n=eli@76-204-213-211.lightspeed.allntx.sbcglobal.net)
14:49.21*** join/#openmoko dos1 (n=dos@unaffiliated/dos1)
14:50.24*** join/#openmoko arw_ (i=foobar@190.24.31.214)
14:51.11*** join/#openmoko kermit (n=zip55413@pdpc/supporter/bronze/kermit)
14:52.28*** join/#openmoko raron (n=kvirc@87.97.99.198)
15:00.33CIA-44openmoko: 03werner * r5696 10/trunk/eda/fped/ (Makefile gui_inst.c gui_style.c inst.h):
15:00.33CIA-44openmoko: Drawing all the pad layers as filled areas can cause confusion. Now we draw
15:00.34CIA-44openmoko: the solder mask with lines.
15:00.34CIA-44openmoko: - gui_inst.c: draw solder mask with lines, not with filled rectangles and arcs
15:00.34CIA-44openmoko: - gui_style.c: increase line width for solder mask from 1 to 2 pixels
15:00.36CIA-44openmoko: - Makefile: added manual/concept-inst.png (forgot to commit this before)
15:02.17*** join/#openmoko daMaestro (n=jon@fedora/damaestro)
15:02.49*** join/#openmoko Ddorda (n=dor@unaffiliated/ddorda)
15:04.29Ddordahey. is there any way to send files to other phone (not OM) with bluetooth?
15:04.31PaulFertser(violating copyright immoral) well, i do not want to be taken seriously then. Neither RMS obviously since he said many times that it's better to violate copyright than to disappoint a friend.
15:04.56PaulFertserDdorda: yes, obex works as on any other GNU/Linux system.
15:08.55PaulFertserraster: so i can't agree with your point
15:09.22mwesterGood not to take RMS seriously, he's "over the rainbow", to use a figure of speech.
15:11.16*** join/#openmoko beer (n=beer@0x4dd40dcb.adsl.cybercity.dk)
15:11.38PaulFertsermwester: i'm not sure copyright law is inherently ethical it's just that it was the most suitable to protect freedom given current legislation.
15:14.36*** join/#openmoko Ddorda (n=dor@unaffiliated/ddorda)
15:16.08DdordaPaulFertser:  * Cannot find package obex.
15:16.26PaulFertserDdorda: come on, read the wiki
15:16.35Ddordamy bad
15:17.42*** join/#openmoko Batchy (n=batchy@AVelizy-155-1-74-91.w90-2.abo.wanadoo.fr)
15:18.28DdordaPaulFertser_: is there any GUI tool?
15:18.47PaulFertserDdorda: i think SHR has some but i'm not sure.
15:21.20DdordaPaulFertser: i will ask there
15:33.54*** join/#openmoko bentob0x (n=laurent@ip-213-49-73-211.dsl.scarlet.be)
15:35.29*** join/#openmoko CVirus (n=Satan@41.130.235.117)
15:41.44TeNoViCould someone please supply me with the rootfs of "Qtopia Extended 4.4.3" or "Qtopia Extended Improved"? I need them
15:42.27*** join/#openmoko bmm (n=bram@195.240.186.6)
15:46.42*** join/#openmoko RedFlash (n=RedFlash@host204-52-dynamic.0-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it)
15:50.34*** join/#openmoko eolson (n=eolson@140.221.11.220)
15:50.55*** join/#openmoko hiciu (n=hiciu@host-91-200-27-218.leon.com.pl)
15:51.40*** join/#openmoko jpablo_ (n=chatzill@190.248.129.70)
15:52.06*** part/#openmoko otypoks (n=e55c2403@xkh1g1.infr.xiaoka.com)
15:54.53*** join/#openmoko Free_maN (n=Free_maN@217.174.199.201)
15:56.23*** join/#openmoko Sharwin_F (n=Sharwin_@90.163.55.137)
15:59.39*** join/#openmoko zanoi (n=quassel@95.172.224.56)
16:08.47*** join/#openmoko emacsian (n=ram@122.167.97.157)
16:19.09*** join/#openmoko GovCon (n=GC@unaffiliated/govcon)
16:21.40*** join/#openmoko naeg (n=naeg@194.208.239.170)
16:27.15Tanuvaopimd-messages doesn't seem to show the newest message but all the others... can I do something about that?
16:32.43tomcatekmaybye You runned put of free space for messages?
16:36.26CIA-44openmoko: 03werner * r5697 10/developers/werner/bl-pwr/ (. bl led.py): Backlight power efficiency measurements.
16:37.22*** part/#openmoko nullix (n=philippe@172-70.252-81.static-ip.oleane.fr)
16:37.28Tanuvanope, df shows loads of free space. and messages *do* appear, just the first one's always missing. looks more like a wrong sql query...
16:41.57*** join/#openmoko emacsian (n=ram@122.167.97.157)
16:42.01*** join/#openmoko radekp (n=radek@63.120.broadband10.iol.cz)
16:42.44*** join/#openmoko samgee (n=samgee@fsf/member/samgee)
16:47.14*** join/#openmoko naeg (n=naeg@194.208.239.170)
16:55.02*** join/#openmoko alephnull (n=alok@122.172.14.68)
16:55.49*** join/#openmoko emacsian (n=ram@122.167.97.157)
16:57.42DocScrutinizer-8wishes opimd would use sql-queries
17:00.28DocScrutinizer-8actually opimd uses sort of generic cache datastructure internally.  dos1 is hardly convincable a "cache" based on sqlite would greatly simplify the whole thing
17:00.49*** join/#openmoko zedstar (n=john@fsf/member/zedstar)
17:01.51Tanuvaand what about the sqlite backend settings in frameworkd.conf?
17:01.54dos1DocScrutinizer-8: i'm already convinced. i just don't have time, motivation and skills to do that
17:02.33*** join/#openmoko zanoi_ (n=quassel@95.172.224.56)
17:03.57DocScrutinizer-8Tanuva: that's exactly that - a backend. Probably read out once on opimd start with "SELECT * FROM *"
17:08.49*** join/#openmoko andi (n=andi@eeepc.andi.whyi.org)
17:10.30*** join/#openmoko messerting (n=messerti@cm-84.208.182.112.getinternet.no)
17:11.03*** join/#openmoko der-lehmann (n=stefan@188-192-133-169-dynip.superkabel.de)
17:14.05*** join/#openmoko lpotter (n=quiggly@58.173.176.153)
17:18.43Tanuvaah.. :/
17:19.04CIA-44freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07cornucopia * r42369873c8db 10/fsogsmd/src/ (6 files in 2 dirs): fsogsmd: define Constants.CALL_INDEX_MAX. fsogsmd will have support for up to 7 concurrent calls.
17:20.06*** join/#openmoko emacsian (n=ram@122.167.97.157)
17:30.25*** join/#openmoko vaiursch (n=erwin@adsl-84-226-76-45.adslplus.ch)
17:33.22*** join/#openmoko zanoi (n=quassel@95.172.224.56)
17:34.19*** join/#openmoko UndrWater (n=Russell_@74.100.102.34)
17:48.57*** join/#openmoko kermit (n=zip55413@pdpc/supporter/bronze/kermit)
17:49.32*** join/#openmoko bmm (n=bram@195-240-186-6.ip.telfort.nl)
17:58.26*** join/#openmoko vanous123 (n=vanous@85.93.174.26)
18:00.26*** join/#openmoko Blastur (n=kebab@86-232-96-87.cust.blixtvik.se)
18:05.16*** join/#openmoko Meomer (n=phaegi@84-75-111-226.dclient.hispeed.ch)
18:06.36*** join/#openmoko onen|openBmap (n=quassel@vbo91-1-89-87-201-85.dsl.club-internet.fr)
18:16.44*** join/#openmoko vaiursch (n=erwin@adsl-84-227-79-109.adslplus.ch)
18:17.56*** part/#openmoko der-lehmann (n=stefan@188-192-133-169-dynip.superkabel.de)
18:19.59*** join/#openmoko Sharwin_F- (n=Sharwin_@90.163.57.198)
18:21.16*** join/#openmoko playya (n=playya@unaffiliated/playya)
18:35.28*** join/#openmoko Sharwin_F (n=Sharwin_@90.163.58.90)
18:38.33*** join/#openmoko chomwitt_ (n=chomwitt@athedsl-404713.home.otenet.gr)
18:40.05*** join/#openmoko Maxiosu (n=maxious@59.167.50.63)
18:40.15CIA-44freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07cornucopia * r4e516bfddf2a 10/fsogsmd/src/ (5 files in 2 dirs): fsogsmd: more work on call handling
18:41.18*** join/#openmoko pleemans (n=toi@d54C2A96D.access.telenet.be)
18:44.16Tanuvafsogsmd will have support for up  to 7 concurrent calls.
18:44.41Tanuvathat will become expensive.
18:46.08*** join/#openmoko emacsian (n=ram@122.167.97.157)
18:48.59*** join/#openmoko emacsian (n=ram@122.167.97.157)
18:58.43mickeylhehe
19:00.18*** join/#openmoko kW (n=kW@unaffiliated/kw)
19:05.53*** join/#openmoko spydon (n=spydon@130.243.146.152)
19:07.28*** join/#openmoko jas4711 (n=jas@c80-216-24-211.bredband.comhem.se)
19:07.37*** join/#openmoko SpeedEvil (n=user@tor/regular/SpeedEvil)
19:20.03*** join/#openmoko retracile (n=eli@76-204-213-211.lightspeed.allntx.sbcglobal.net)
19:21.44*** join/#openmoko amarsh04 (n=amarsh04@118.210.98.83)
19:22.14*** join/#openmoko daMaestro|isBack (n=jon@fedora/damaestro)
19:27.54*** join/#openmoko tschaka (n=tschaka@p5B0E9B44.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
19:33.48*** join/#openmoko uzi18 (n=uzi@gfb34.internetdsl.tpnet.pl)
19:48.05*** join/#openmoko emacsian (n=ram@122.167.97.157)
19:52.57*** join/#openmoko mmu_man (n=revol@n217-115-158-134.cnet.hosteurope.de)
19:54.46*** join/#openmoko GovCon (n=GC@unaffiliated/govcon)
19:58.36*** join/#openmoko ZaPPaS (n=zappas@dslb-084-056-162-165.pools.arcor-ip.net)
19:58.36*** join/#openmoko pH5 (n=ph5@e178211224.adsl.alicedsl.de)
19:59.44*** join/#openmoko badcloud (n=raanan@ti400720a342-0902.bb.online.no)
20:00.01*** join/#openmoko jonkristian (n=jonkrist@174.84-48-204.nextgentel.com)
20:05.28*** join/#openmoko raischuth (n=raischut@g229102155.adsl.alicedsl.de)
20:08.22*** join/#openmoko max_posedon (n=max_pose@87.252.243.177)
20:11.12*** join/#openmoko raron (n=kvirc@87.97.99.198.pool.invitel.hu)
20:13.56*** join/#openmoko idarwin (n=ian@CPE001839e5de66-CM00195ed27bd6.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com)
20:17.23*** join/#openmoko azaghal_ (n=azaghal@212.178.230.218)
20:22.38*** join/#openmoko [Rui] (n=Rui@81.84.169.253)
20:28.59*** join/#openmoko miras (n=miras@host-81-190-230-128.wroclaw.mm.pl)
20:33.11*** part/#openmoko vanous123 (n=vanous@85.93.174.26)
20:38.58*** join/#openmoko hipitihop (n=denis@203.132.229.35)
20:41.33*** join/#openmoko emacsian (n=ram@122.167.97.157)
20:45.42*** join/#openmoko max_posedon (n=max_pose@80.249.94.91)
20:56.48mmu_manhttp://dev.haiku-os.org/changeset/33664/haiku/trunk/build :)
20:57.50raischuthwow, thx
20:59.43*** join/#openmoko bmm (n=bram@195-240-186-6.ip.telfort.nl)
21:01.20*** join/#openmoko TAsnn (n=tasn@DSL217-132-21-52.bb.netvision.net.il)
21:04.52*** join/#openmoko TAsn (n=tasn@89-138-73-19.bb.netvision.net.il)
21:06.48slaxxerandroid is looking good
21:08.33*** join/#openmoko wd (n=wd@82.119.147.190)
21:08.37*** join/#openmoko stongo (n=stongo@67.142.120.94)
21:08.46stongohello
21:10.04max_posedonslaxxer, what about smelling?)
21:14.39*** join/#openmoko jonkristian (n=jonkrist@174.84-48-204.nextgentel.com)
21:20.03*** join/#openmoko menace (n=knorr@unaffiliated/menace)
21:23.46CIA-44freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07cornucopia * r3e9f338e9db2 10/fsogsmd/src/ (4 files in 2 dirs): fsogsmd: org.freesmartphone.GSM.Call.SendDtmf() done
21:35.10*** join/#openmoko alfatangoxt (n=michele@79.35.207.230)
21:44.38*** join/#openmoko alfatangoxt (n=michele@host230-207-dynamic.35-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it)
21:50.07*** join/#openmoko bram_ (n=bram@195-240-186-6.ip.telfort.nl)
21:51.15*** join/#openmoko Quadduc (n=quadduc@ws43083.studby.hig.no)
21:52.40*** join/#openmoko Reactor16 (n=Reactor1@41.105.25.100)
21:53.51CIA-44freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07cornucopia * r65f60278725e 10/fsogsmd/src/lib/ (atcall.vala atcommands.vala): fsogsmd: more work on call handling, pending conference, transfer, and join
21:56.00*** join/#openmoko Fox_M|afk (i=quakeman@f051097016.adsl.alicedsl.de)
22:03.35*** join/#openmoko spydon (n=spydon@nl103-146-152.student.uu.se)
22:05.38*** join/#openmoko CVirus (n=Satan@41.130.235.117)
22:06.29*** join/#openmoko hipitihop (n=denis@203.132.229.35)
22:07.16CIA-44freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07cornucopia * r5c7d2aa7013d 10/fsogsmd/src/lib/ (atunsolicited.vala modem.vala): fsogsmd: call: enable call waiting URC and retrigger call syncing upon detection
22:08.45DocScrutinizermax_posedon: android stinks
23:01.35*** join/#openmoko jcc1 (n=jcchao@219.85.46.69)
23:07.24*** join/#openmoko KenYoung (n=Ken@pool-151-203-32-6.bos.east.verizon.net)
23:08.56*** join/#openmoko zanoi_ (n=quassel@95.172.224.56)
23:13.43*** join/#openmoko marh (n=marius@p54BE4859.dip.t-dialin.net)
23:38.34*** join/#openmoko nio_ (n=nio@d594e5f2.dsl.concepts.nl)
23:46.32*** join/#openmoko pablomino (n=pablo@201.215.181.49)
23:47.33*** part/#openmoko pablomino (n=pablo@201.215.181.49)
23:49.26CIA-44freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07cornucopia * r376c357db750 10/fsogsmd/src/ (7 files in 2 dirs):
23:49.26CIA-44freesmartphone.org: fsogsmd: org.freesmartphone.GSM.Network.GetStatus() done.
23:49.26CIA-44freesmartphone.org: NOTE: Look at atmediators.vala:625-680 if you want to see a real beauty!
23:49.26CIA-44freesmartphone.org: It's the monster of a mediator, but still pretty readable thanks
23:49.26CIA-44freesmartphone.org: to our coroutines (and the stellar fsogsmd architecture, of course ;)
23:57.50*** join/#openmoko arw_ (i=foobar@190.27.1.166)

Generated by irclog2html.pl Modified by Tim Riker to work with infobot.