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| 01:36.57 | slaxxer | apt-get upgrade working? |
| 01:37.02 | slaxxer | lindi? |
| 01:37.17 | slaxxer | i want to install Doom |
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| 02:41.28 | slaxxer | better let go of thhat beer can cause its gonna hurt your wittle heads |
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| 02:50.42 | luke-jr | does GTA01 have all the problems I hear GTA02 has? if not, is it still available for purchase? |
| 02:55.04 | mwester | The GTA01 has some of the same problems, but mostly it has its own wonderful unique set of problems. :) |
| 02:55.28 | mwester | And it's not available for purchase -- except perhaps on eBay. |
| 02:58.27 | slaxxer | if u can find an A7 it prolly be best |
| 02:59.11 | luke-jr | slaxxer: I hear even the A7 has major issues |
| 02:59.32 | KenYoung | The GTA01 does have better graphics performance than the GTA02, at least. |
| 03:00.13 | luke-jr | KenYoung: I've given up on a handheld+phone. |
| 03:00.30 | KenYoung | luke-jr, No me! |
| 03:00.30 | luke-jr | now I'm only looking for a phone to pair with OpenPandora |
| 03:00.53 | luke-jr | so basically it just needs to reliably do data+calls+bluetooth |
| 03:01.30 | KenYoung | luke-jr, I know nothing about OpenPandora - what do you find attactive about it? |
| 03:02.20 | luke-jr | KenYoung: it seems to be usable? |
| 03:02.32 | luke-jr | 256 MB RAM is my minimum |
| 03:02.36 | luke-jr | a decent keyboard |
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| 03:03.30 | KenYoung | luke-jr, Doesn't the "decent keyboard" requirement force you to go with something netbook sized? |
| 03:03.36 | luke-jr | KenYoung: no. |
| 03:03.47 | luke-jr | my Zaurus SL-C760 had a great keyboard |
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| 03:04.01 | KenYoung | I'll have to google that... |
| 03:04.08 | luke-jr | http://www.brighthand.com/images/Sharp_Zaurus_R_1_L.jpg |
| 03:06.24 | KenYoung | luke-jr, Well, to each his own, but unless the keyboard is wide enough that I can type they same way I do on a full sized keyboard, I'd just as soon type on a really small cellphone one, since I won't be typing quickly anyway. |
| 03:06.56 | luke-jr | you assume the way you type on a full sized keyboard is the only fast method |
| 03:07.12 | luke-jr | using a keyboard like the Zaurus one is entirely different, but still fast and comfortable |
| 03:07.21 | luke-jr | keep in mind you need to hold it while you type ;) |
| 03:08.51 | KenYoung | luke-jr, Well, maybe so. I just think that a small keyboard does not allow resting the wrists comfortably, ans having the fingers operate at something like the separation they have when your hand is completely relaxed. |
| 03:09.44 | KenYoung | Of course, my argument is hampered a bit by all the typos I make typing here, at home, with my full size keyboard. |
| 03:10.22 | luke-jr | handhelds are used without a surface usually :p |
| 03:12.25 | KenYoung | For handhelds, I like the idea of no keyboard, just a display with as many pixels as possible. |
| 03:13.07 | luke-jr | I don't. |
| 03:13.32 | luke-jr | can't write code w/ a touchscreen |
| 03:14.09 | KenYoung | You actually code on a handheld? |
| 03:14.59 | luke-jr | used to, a bit |
| 03:15.07 | luke-jr | Zaurus battery is no longer usable |
| 03:15.15 | luke-jr | nothing on the market to replace it |
| 03:15.21 | KenYoung | I bow before you. You are a better geek than I am. |
| 03:15.31 | luke-jr | like I said, it was a very good keyboard |
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| 04:11.00 | UndrWater | sl6000 has a good k/b too :P |
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| 05:05.52 | luke-jr | Undrwater: I hear the new one has a crappy kb tho :/ |
| 05:06.12 | Undrwater | the one that's like a netbook? |
| 05:11.30 | luke-jr | yeah, it's a bit larger |
| 05:11.57 | Undrwater | not easily pocketable :) |
| 05:14.24 | luke-jr | I wonder what OpenMoko Inc is doing now that they've finished that lame wiki reader thing |
| 05:14.38 | luke-jr | maybe they could be convinced to add a phone to OpenPandora's specs |
| 05:16.11 | Undrwater | the wiki reader isn't a lame thing from the perspective of a person who provides tech to schools |
| 05:16.39 | luke-jr | schools have PCs |
| 05:16.44 | luke-jr | meh |
| 05:16.50 | Undrwater | pc's are not portable |
| 05:16.51 | luke-jr | OpenPandora apparently didn't release CAD/PCBs :/ |
| 05:17.01 | luke-jr | Undrwater: nor do they need to be |
| 05:17.16 | luke-jr | besides, Wikipedia is too propagandized to be in schools |
| 05:17.48 | Undrwater | everything is propagandized :) wikipedia is a great secondary research tool |
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| 05:19.54 | Undrwater | or even primary for non-critical research... |
| 05:22.01 | luke-jr | maybe OpenMoko and OpenPandora companies should merge so they can combine concepts |
| 05:22.03 | luke-jr | <.< |
| 05:22.37 | Undrwater | not much to merge i think :) |
| 05:22.46 | Undrwater | just a couple'a guys? |
| 05:24.24 | luke-jr | yeah, but OpenPandora isn't willing to release CAD files |
| 05:24.26 | lindi- | luke-jr: wikireader might not be that lame :) |
| 05:25.02 | luke-jr | so short of a merge, I don't see a combined device happening |
| 05:25.41 | Undrwater | not likely |
| 05:26.15 | Undrwater | i'd love to see sharp throw zaurus to the wild :) |
| 05:26.22 | luke-jr | hehe |
| 05:26.26 | luke-jr | especially that nice keyboard |
| 05:26.38 | luke-jr | yay dedicated tab key |
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| 05:27.22 | luke-jr | sortof wishes he lived in an era with fab-on-demand |
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| 05:50.40 | slaxxer | prolly in Hawaii |
| 05:51.39 | slaxxer | they are letting the community try their hand at building hardware |
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| 06:06.59 | SpeedEvil | d |
| 06:07.04 | luke-jr | e |
| 06:07.06 | SpeedEvil | fab-on-dewmand? |
| 06:08.58 | luke-jr | SpeedEvil: you upload a CAD and pay $, they send you a device |
| 06:09.04 | luke-jr | think print-on-demand books |
| 06:09.51 | SpeedEvil | luke-jr: everywhere has that. |
| 06:10.05 | luke-jr | SpeedEvil: everywhere has fab-on-demand? |
| 06:10.15 | luke-jr | oh, I forgot to mention: quantity of 1 |
| 06:10.16 | SpeedEvil | luke-jr: shipping is a tiny, tiny, tiny fraction of the cost |
| 06:10.58 | luke-jr | SpeedEvil: so? |
| 06:11.29 | SpeedEvil | Oh |
| 06:11.39 | SpeedEvil | I misread era for area |
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| 06:12.07 | luke-jr | ah |
| 06:12.38 | SpeedEvil | Also - same thing sort of applies - even with free immediate fab - you'd still need several versions to get it working |
| 06:13.01 | luke-jr | SpeedEvil: it doesn't need to be immediate, just affordable |
| 06:14.30 | luke-jr | print-on-demand accomplishes this by not making any profits on prototyping |
| 06:14.44 | luke-jr | only when you go into production and make your own profit |
| 06:14.57 | aloril | sunglass like display seems to be available: http://www.vuzix.com/iwear/products_wrap310.html (but I guess there is no way to use it with Neo FreeRunner (or Neo 1973) ?) |
| 06:15.54 | SpeedEvil | I assume you know the cost of making a single FR would greatly exceed the price? (now) - even neglecting that it wouldn't work if you're making a first of a design? |
| 06:16.34 | SpeedEvil | aloril: probably not - USB1->VGA adaptors don't exist that I've seen |
| 06:18.53 | SpeedEvil | But yes, star-trek type replication would be cool. |
| 06:20.42 | aloril | anything else available that has composite video, VGA or HDMI and is running Linux with terminal available and ability to install your own programs and also can act as a phone? |
| 06:21.25 | ndnihil | laptop with gsm modem |
| 06:21.44 | slaxxer | but gta02 core isnt making a "first product are they? |
| 06:34.26 | SpeedEvil | aloril: n900 |
| 06:34.43 | SpeedEvil | though only sorta-available |
| 06:35.00 | SpeedEvil | beagleboard with a GSM stick plugged in |
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| 06:36.37 | KenYoung | SpeedEvil, Nokia is scheduling "N900 meetups" at their stores on Oct 30, so the darn thing should be available by then. |
| 06:37.34 | SpeedEvil | http://yannramin.com/2009/10/16/the-wikireader-cool-device-future-hackability/ |
| 06:37.45 | SpeedEvil | KenYoung: not heard that |
| 06:40.43 | KenYoung | SpeedEvil, http://blogs.nokia.com/nseries/n900meetup/ |
| 06:42.53 | ndnihil | wow |
| 06:42.55 | ndnihil | they used forth |
| 06:43.08 | ndnihil | haven't played with that since my days with Sun |
| 06:43.25 | SpeedEvil | may or may not be simply firmware test. |
| 06:43.28 | SpeedEvil | interesting tho |
| 06:46.16 | aloril | not mentioning about phone aspect much, just "Ring tones: .wav, .mp3, .AAC, .eAAC, .wma, .m4a" at http://maemo.nokia.com/n900/ |
| 06:47.20 | SpeedEvil | It does calls too. |
| 06:47.27 | SpeedEvil | With skype integrated too |
| 06:48.03 | luke-jr | skype ftk |
| 06:48.05 | luke-jr | ftl* |
| 06:49.26 | aloril | oh, it does mention in http://maemo.nokia.com/n900/specifications/ page |
| 06:49.32 | SpeedEvil | yes |
| 06:52.06 | KenYoung | It always seemed crazy that they didn't drop a GSM module into their 800 series tablets. With the volume Nokia does, a GSM module probably costs about 5 cents. |
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| 06:55.07 | aloril | hmm.. one usb port, so either twiddler using bluetooth somehow, or use internal keyboard when using some other usb gadget (I guess USB hubs always need external power) |
| 06:55.34 | SpeedEvil | no USB host mode - perhaps. |
| 06:55.59 | SpeedEvil | It may not even work with external cable+powered hub |
| 07:01.17 | aloril | just says "Micro-USB connector, High-Speed USB 2.0" |
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| 07:21.14 | aloril | doesn't look like anybody has yet actually tried wrap 310 yet |
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| 08:23.24 | aloril | indeed, no host mode: http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail/maemo-developers/2009-September/020830.html |
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| 08:25.39 | PaulFertser | DocScrutinizer: ^^^ |
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| 08:26.44 | aloril | maybe just use N900 screen/keyboard blindly inside suitable bag/case at hip |
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| 08:29.45 | PaulFertser | What a stupidity. To sucrifice functionality just to pass usb certification. Why the hell couldn't they just not care about the certification: the worst outcome would be not placing usb logo on the package. |
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| 08:35.23 | aloril | minimum software modification: show where your finger is in screen (when N900 is beside hip and you are using it 'blindly') |
| 08:35.44 | aloril | and maybe some mode/font changes to work with lower resolution of wrap 310 |
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| 10:27.25 | DocScrutinizer-8 | duh |
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| 10:34.42 | DocScrutinizer-8 | PaulFertser: I discussed that with a few other people and it seems not even Nokia (those guys) does exactly understand what's the implications. On #maemo somebody claimed 5 hw-devels insisted in impossibility of having fastcharge and usb-hostmode on same connector :-O |
| 10:36.14 | SpeedEvil | The few hw-devish mails I've seen on the issue do not convince me that it's not possible to simply set bit 47 to enable host-mode and use an external PS |
| 10:36.18 | DocScrutinizer-8 | of course OTG has some weird requirements wrt hw. But a mere manual switching between host and device should be possible, as it is on N810 |
| 10:36.20 | PaulFertser | DocScrutinizer-8: probably that was artificial restriction by usb consortcium |
| 10:36.43 | DocScrutinizer-8 | SpeedEvil: exactly |
| 10:36.44 | SpeedEvil | They seem to either misunderstand or misrepresent the hardware issues. |
| 10:37.06 | SpeedEvil | And of course people without an actual clue can't evaluate this. |
| 10:37.18 | DocScrutinizer-8 | SpeedEvil: exactly |
| 10:37.46 | DocScrutinizer-8 | I still see opportunity for a job for me :-P |
| 10:38.24 | SpeedEvil | good luck. :) |
| 10:38.46 | PaulFertser | SpeedEvil: even gta02 has an integrated converter to power external devices, having to use an additional PS sounds unfancy. |
| 10:39.16 | DocScrutinizer-8 | SpeedEvil: I guess #47 was a random number ;-) |
| 10:39.37 | SpeedEvil | Sure - but if the decision was taken - as the mails seem to imply - to change the connector - that would have been a logical time to drop the PSU |
| 10:39.39 | SpeedEvil | yes |
| 10:40.08 | DocScrutinizer-8 | PaulFertser: but I guess that's exactly what they did: remove the powersupply circuitry |
| 10:40.56 | PaulFertser | DocScrutinizer-8: i don't know about omap but probably you'd also need to use external 22k (or whatever) pulldowns... |
| 10:41.01 | PaulFertser | Highly suboptimal |
| 10:41.54 | DocScrutinizer-8 | PaulFertser: possibly |
| 10:42.39 | DocScrutinizer-8 | though afaik the OTG ready IF of SoC knows how to do that internally |
| 10:43.32 | DocScrutinizer-8 | but the OTG/USB2 charging supplement is really insane |
| 10:43.59 | DocScrutinizer-8 | and impossibly to meet with standard OTG IF of SoC |
| 10:44.36 | DocScrutinizer-8 | so I guess they binned the whole OTG (incl hostmode) for the charging done traditional way |
| 10:44.54 | SpeedEvil | you mean you need to detect shorted Ds? |
| 10:45.03 | DocScrutinizer-8 | not only |
| 10:45.25 | DocScrutinizer-8 | the more hard thing is the rampup of power drawn |
| 10:45.30 | SpeedEvil | or is there some wacky way to detect max current based on vdrop? |
| 10:45.37 | DocScrutinizer-8 | and detect sourceZ of PSU |
| 10:45.45 | SpeedEvil | yah |
| 10:45.52 | DocScrutinizer-8 | exactly |
| 10:46.00 | SpeedEvil | that's going to require PMU hackery |
| 10:46.01 | DocScrutinizer-8 | SoC can't do that |
| 10:46.12 | DocScrutinizer-8 | yep |
| 10:46.15 | DocScrutinizer-8 | :-S |
| 10:46.30 | DocScrutinizer-8 | so probably they simply overreacted |
| 10:46.33 | SpeedEvil | Why they couldn't just have mandated a $0.5 'I am a charger' chip... |
| 10:47.07 | SpeedEvil | (the usb-if people) |
| 10:47.25 | DocScrutinizer-8 | Europe and China require mandatory usb-charging |
| 10:47.51 | DocScrutinizer-8 | (usb-freaks) they are insane |
| 10:49.58 | DocScrutinizer-8 | still I think it's not mutually exclusive (physically) to meet simple charging over USB and a *non*OTG hostmode - even with power |
| 10:50.12 | DocScrutinizer-8 | and OTG is *not* mandatory |
| 10:50.35 | DocScrutinizer-8 | USB2 charger supplement isn't as well, afaik |
| 10:51.22 | SpeedEvil | There is also the suggestion I made _way_ back. |
| 10:51.38 | SpeedEvil | charger has a hub chip in it, and a couple of ports on the top |
| 10:51.51 | DocScrutinizer-8 | probably Nokia just didn't realize all the woes are just from charging at >500mA |
| 10:52.03 | SpeedEvil | Yeah. |
| 10:52.16 | SpeedEvil | It's easy to get the wrong answer if you ask the wrong question |
| 10:52.38 | DocScrutinizer-8 | see "FR burns on charging N900" from lindi- |
| 10:53.09 | SpeedEvil | I read that as 'inductor chosen wrong' |
| 10:53.32 | DocScrutinizer-8 | so to summarize: seems they messed it up much worse than we did :-P |
| 10:53.53 | SpeedEvil | Well - they have working software at launch :/ |
| 10:54.14 | SpeedEvil | But the OM hardware was never the major issue |
| 10:54.27 | *** join/#openmoko kraut` (n=kraut@e181086000.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 10:54.30 | DocScrutinizer-8 | SpeedEvil: (inductor) nah, there was simply *nothing* wrong. All a bogus report |
| 10:55.02 | SpeedEvil | It diddn't in fact get hot? |
| 10:55.17 | DocScrutinizer-8 | it did, as it's supposed to |
| 10:55.49 | SpeedEvil | ah |
| 10:55.53 | DocScrutinizer-8 | AAT1275 overcurrent protection is by mere overheeat switchdown at ~125C |
| 10:55.58 | SpeedEvil | http://www.eetimes.com/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=220601177&cid=NL_eet interesting. new display |
| 10:56.24 | *** part/#openmoko kraut` (n=kraut@e181086000.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 10:57.13 | PaulFertser | wonders how Werner managed to solder QFN for his integrated debug board |
| 10:57.27 | SpeedEvil | and 125C with a decent thermal coupling to the board will get hot |
| 10:57.31 | DocScrutinizer-8 | ask him ;-) |
| 10:57.34 | SpeedEvil | you can dead bug it |
| 10:57.41 | DocScrutinizer-8 | yep |
| 10:57.46 | SpeedEvil | it's not entirely fun. |
| 10:58.07 | DocScrutinizer-8 | hmm, nnot that big an issue |
| 10:59.15 | DocScrutinizer-8 | the thermal resistance to other components from die of aat1275 is high enough for that scheme to be ugly but safe |
| 11:00.23 | PaulFertser | SpeedEvil: QFN-28, 0.5mm pitch is not exactly fun to dead-bug. And he didn't, he made good pcbs with thermo-laser method and soldered directly. |
| 11:01.05 | DocScrutinizer-8 | but I agree kernel had the damn duty to survey that and tear down hostmode power on sensing overload |
| 11:05.13 | DocScrutinizer-8 | the pitty is SHR is drifting away from fixing basic things or kernel bugs every day even further, it seem |
| 11:05.15 | DocScrutinizer-8 | s |
| 11:06.08 | lindi- | DocScrutinizer-8: interesting thing is that i heard n900 just passed usb conformance tests |
| 11:06.16 | DocScrutinizer-8 | that's reason why FR, SHR, and basically OM almost lost me entirely |
| 11:06.21 | PaulFertser | DocScrutinizer-8: (aat1275) if overtemp protection kicked in, it would turn off charging completely until it cooled. |
| 11:06.52 | DocScrutinizer-8 | PaulFertser: which happens in ms rather than sec |
| 11:07.16 | PaulFertser | DocScrutinizer-8: hm, possibly so |
| 11:07.28 | DocScrutinizer-8 | the die is sub-mm^2 and mg |
| 11:08.18 | PaulFertser | DocScrutinizer-8: you could simulate that at home and use 'scope to actually see what's happening. |
| 11:08.38 | DocScrutinizer-8 | they even have some debouncing in PMU for same scheme, iirc 62 ms |
| 11:09.38 | DocScrutinizer-8 | paul_bipless: I could, but honestly I'm not interested, as I have no unanswered questions wrt the issue |
| 11:09.52 | PaulFertser | DocScrutinizer-8: ok. |
| 11:10.08 | PaulFertser | DocScrutinizer-8: (kernel bugs) if you have something specific in mind, i'm ready to file a ticket. |
| 11:10.18 | DocScrutinizer-8 | ok |
| 11:10.28 | DocScrutinizer-8 | wait a minute |
| 11:13.05 | DocScrutinizer | PaulFertser: kernel SHALL disable usb-power (U4904:2 EN_USBHOST) on detecting /USB_FLT (U4904:7) |
| 11:13.35 | PaulFertser | DocScrutinizer: yes, i was investigating that atm. Seems we get hardware in place. |
| 11:13.48 | DocScrutinizer | (ok, was 3 minutes. Almost) |
| 11:14.51 | DocScrutinizer | sure we got, what do you think I am? An idiot? ;-P |
| 11:17.21 | DocScrutinizer | the nasty part is all those functions never were tested, neither in standard kerner nor even at fab in QC |
| 11:18.12 | DocScrutinizer | to be honest the fab QC barely even tests all the STANDARD functions of device |
| 11:19.05 | PaulFertser | DocScrutinizer: https://docs.openmoko.org/trac/ticket/2314 |
| 11:19.10 | DocScrutinizer | a broken solder point on e.g U4904:7 would go completely unnoticed |
| 11:19.55 | DocScrutinizer | PaulFertser: cool :-) |
| 11:23.55 | DocScrutinizer-8 | lindy could mark his "overheat" ticket as a dup of this one |
| 11:24.23 | lindi- | DocScrutinizer-8: i can't, no permissions |
| 11:24.30 | PaulFertser | lindi-: want me to do that? |
| 11:24.34 | DocScrutinizer-8 | oh, |
| 11:24.38 | DocScrutinizer-8 | k |
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| 11:30.31 | PaulFertser | lindi-: stupid trac allows me to close it as a duplicate but i can not find a way to specify the ticket it's considered to be a duplicate of. |
| 11:30.43 | lindi- | please don't close it :) |
| 11:30.54 | DocScrutinizer-8 | a basic word on hw: I'm checking (and debugging) the hw for way longer than a year now, and I didn't find the "selfdestruction mechanism" of FR yet |
| 11:30.59 | lindi- | (as i have no permission to reopen either :P) |
| 11:31.46 | DocScrutinizer-8 | afaik it's already closed |
| 11:32.37 | DocScrutinizer-8 | and now we got the new more specific ticket, so it doesn't really matter |
| 11:34.28 | SpeedEvil | DocScrutinizer: set SoC core voltage to 67? |
| 11:34.32 | DocScrutinizer-8 | wonders why reopen isn't standard permission for users that may open tickets |
| 11:35.29 | DocScrutinizer-8 | SpeedEvil: I don't think that will fly, but ok, I'll have a look into it |
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| 11:36.14 | SpeedEvil | Well - tehre looked - on the limited stuff I looked at for gta01 to be the possibility of setting voltage levels well beyound the specified limits. |
| 11:36.24 | SpeedEvil | But this is more a 'don't do that then' |
| 11:37.11 | DocScrutinizer-8 | still I'm curious |
| 11:37.47 | DocScrutinizer-8 | had to study SoC AMR though |
| 11:37.50 | DocScrutinizer-8 | waaah |
| 11:38.18 | DocScrutinizer-8 | PMU volt range is easy, compared to that |
| 11:41.14 | PaulFertser | DocScrutinizer-8: /me wonders why the hell everything about OM is so damn late :( Hardware bugs are found after > 5000 units already deployed, kernel goes upstream after > 2 years of development, we get permission to close tickets after OM-the-company goes out of business etc etc. Just about everything is late. |
| 11:41.53 | DocScrutinizer-8 | yep |
| 11:42.08 | DocScrutinizer-8 | no idea |
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| 11:43.03 | SpeedEvil | I do wonder what'd have happened if a push for gta01 hardware bugfixed slightly for xmas 2007 and a modified 2007.3 stack'd had happened. |
| 11:43.07 | PaulFertser | It's more like it frustrates me than makes me curious to know the reason. |
| 11:43.41 | DocScrutinizer-8 | basically I guess that's because a entrepreneur starting a business need different capabilities than a manager running same business |
| 11:44.11 | PaulFertser | Aha, for proper duplicates management trac needs an additional plugin (http://trac-hacks.org/svn/tracdupplugin/0.11/README). OM should have used plain old bugzilla :-/ |
| 11:47.54 | DocScrutinizer-8 | pester roh ;-) maybe he likes to migrate :-P |
| 11:54.08 | PaulFertser | DocScrutinizer-8: no way he'll do that. Too much of a hassle. |
| 11:54.40 | DocScrutinizer-8 | that's what the emoticons say ;-) |
| 11:55.09 | DocScrutinizer-8 | but maybe he installs that plugin |
| 11:55.51 | PaulFertser | DocScrutinizer-8: http://pyneo.org/t/battery.per.jpg <-- another pregnant gta01 battery |
| 11:55.55 | PaulFertser | :-/ |
| 11:56.01 | DocScrutinizer-8 | duh |
| 11:56.31 | DocScrutinizer-8 | yoh, nasty |
| 11:57.07 | PaulFertser | DocScrutinizer-8: there should be a reason for that many reports about that shit :/ |
| 11:57.10 | DocScrutinizer-8 | well, deep discharge is death of bat |
| 11:57.44 | DocScrutinizer-8 | some copper needles build up and short the electrodes. |
| 11:57.57 | DocScrutinizer-8 | on next charge it will go booof |
| 11:59.04 | DocScrutinizer-8 | on gta01 it's much easier to accidentally deep discharge bat - without even noticing |
| 11:59.14 | PaulFertser | DocScrutinizer-8: the question is how the hell it got deeply discharge. Though on gta01 it's easy because calypso can remain powered when you think device is off. |
| 11:59.36 | PaulFertser | Heh, exactly :) |
| 11:59.42 | DocScrutinizer-8 | that's what I say |
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| 12:00.49 | PaulFertser | Not the first time we say the same :D |
| 12:01.25 | DocScrutinizer-8 | so basically there's no "right" way to store the 01 device correctly for extended periods. Best bet is to remove bat after charging though |
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| 12:02.13 | DocScrutinizer-8 | gta02 is magnitudes better on that |
| 12:03.20 | DocScrutinizer-8 | still you should remove bat (and charge prior to that) for extended (like weeks) non-usage of device... ANY device |
| 12:04.34 | DocScrutinizer-8 | you shouldn't expect Neo to be better wrt that, than any other cellphone or arbitrary electronic device |
| 12:04.47 | SpeedEvil | or discharge to 40%, remove bat, place in fridge |
| 12:05.17 | DocScrutinizer-8 | 75% is recommended value (though 40 is ok as well). |
| 12:06.01 | DocScrutinizer-8 | and in fridge you should place bat in a sealed plastic bag, with some silicagel |
| 12:06.29 | DocScrutinizer-8 | and not cool down below 5C |
| 12:08.21 | DocScrutinizer-8 | nevertheless even then bat need as trickle charge every few months - it's a pita |
| 12:09.29 | SpeedEvil | I don't see why not. |
| 12:09.46 | SpeedEvil | Every cell datasheet I've found lists storage at -20C as fine |
| 12:09.54 | *** join/#openmoko RedFlash (n=RedFlash@host210-109-dynamic.2-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 12:11.01 | DocScrutinizer-8 | well, that's what I gathered from plenty of different sources |
| 12:11.25 | SpeedEvil | I've seen the 5C in other places too - I see no rationale for it. |
| 12:11.44 | SpeedEvil | Other than the fact that you shouldn't freeze the cells electrolyte - but that doesn't happen at 0C |
| 12:12.03 | DocScrutinizer-8 | low temp might not harm cell immediately, but for caring storage temp should be around 10C |
| 12:12.27 | SpeedEvil | I've never seen that spec on any cell datasheet |
| 12:12.28 | DocScrutinizer-8 | dunno why |
| 12:12.43 | SpeedEvil | just storage -20 to 40, with a note that high temp storage affects life |
| 12:12.47 | DocScrutinizer-8 | that's not from datasheets |
| 12:13.33 | DocScrutinizer-8 | more like german c't articles etc |
| 12:14.03 | SpeedEvil | There is so much crap talked about batteries it's hard to work out what's true. |
| 12:14.16 | DocScrutinizer-8 | yep |
| 12:14.55 | DocScrutinizer-8 | but usually you can tell from the whole source how competent the auther has been |
| 12:16.14 | SpeedEvil | But even with care, it's easy to include stuff that 'everyone knows'. |
| 12:16.32 | SpeedEvil | memory, forex |
| 13:00.12 | badcloud | which distro are you using, DocScrutinizer-8? |
| 13:02.11 | DocScrutinizer-8 | shr-U0808 |
| 13:07.07 | badcloud | is anyone working on a button(s)-->event manager? |
| 13:07.12 | badcloud | in shr I mean |
| 13:08.06 | *** join/#openmoko geaaru (n=geaaru@host241-223-dynamic.1-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 13:08.27 | badcloud | the poor usability is reaaaaaaaaally getting to me |
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| 14:02.37 | aloril | hmm? "some Nokia reps at an event later that evening and Nokia was boasting about the device having USB hosting capabilities and can serve as a miniaturized personal computer." http://pocketnow.com/smartphone/ctia-nokia-demoes-n900-tablet-with-maemo-and-linux |
| 14:02.59 | aloril | "Posted by Chuong Nguyen October 12th, 2009 at 01:37 PM" |
| 14:04.46 | *** join/#openmoko tsdogs (n=tsdogs@net203-187-146.mclink.it) |
| 14:06.21 | SpeedEvil | Frankly, I wouldn't believe at all what anyone without detailed hardware knowledge says about this issue. |
| 14:07.41 | DocScrutinizer-8 | yup |
| 14:08.07 | DocScrutinizer-8 | as stated above even Nokia chief sw devels are clueless it seems |
| 14:09.07 | DocScrutinizer-8 | and hey, isn't that what we seen at OM as well? ;-P |
| 14:11.37 | aloril | SpeedEvil: yeah, just find curious that boast ;-) |
| 14:11.56 | DocScrutinizer-8 | tbh I'd really hate Nokia for postponing shipping date just to figure what all that USB-host issue is all about |
| 14:12.44 | SpeedEvil | you're ordering? |
| 14:12.47 | DocScrutinizer-8 | alas it's not that unlikely it is exactly what's going on |
| 14:12.57 | DocScrutinizer-8 | who, me? |
| 14:14.13 | Meomer | is maemo interesting to develop for? |
| 14:14.17 | DocScrutinizer-8 | remembers the big 3band vs 4band confusion about Neo :-P |
| 14:16.21 | DocScrutinizer-8 | everybody at OM upper hirarchy thought Neo is 4band as calypso is basically able to do that. Our hw was a 3band design though - lol |
| 14:17.17 | SpeedEvil | And they thought that the glamo was an accellerator. |
| 14:17.39 | DocScrutinizer-8 | muhahaHAHAAAHAHAAA |
| 14:18.32 | mwester | is now grumpier than usual this morning, with those bad memories brought back. |
| 14:19.09 | SpeedEvil | feeds mwester cheese. |
| 14:19.22 | DocScrutinizer-8 | well it *might* have been, *if* we connected glamo audio to wolfson, so mpeg decoding actually could be done on that "gfx accel" |
| 14:19.50 | DocScrutinizer-8 | mwester: heyhoo! :-) |
| 14:20.01 | *** join/#openmoko panicking (n=Michael@77.224.194.88) |
| 14:20.09 | SpeedEvil | Or dropped the screen to qvga I guess |
| 14:20.10 | DocScrutinizer-8 | howdy! |
| 14:20.26 | mwester | greetings o wise ones |
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| 14:23.13 | DocScrutinizer-8 | I guess if done right, glamo actuall could pull a while mpeg-video off MMC and decode/playback, while CPU at 0% load and still able to actually perform other tasks (not if that other task involves uSD/MMC access though :-P ) |
| 14:23.18 | *** join/#openmoko bumbl (n=bumbl@212-183-114-245.adsl.highway.telekom.at) |
| 14:23.29 | *** join/#openmoko tvmanukrishnan (n=tvm@117.254.152.93) |
| 14:23.40 | DocScrutinizer-8 | actuallY, whOle* |
| 14:24.28 | DocScrutinizer-8 | but then you get video without any audio :-/ |
| 14:26.15 | tvmanukrishnan | hi, just got a neo1973 from my friend. Need to make the GPS working for a open mapping party. when I switch on GPS, the phone restarts... What should I do? |
| 14:26.51 | *** join/#openmoko _Andrew (n=andrew@unaffiliated/andrew/x-643872) |
| 14:27.41 | *** join/#openmoko playya (n=playya@unaffiliated/playya) |
| 14:30.40 | panicking | Change the preinstalled distrib |
| 14:30.43 | panicking | with a new one |
| 14:33.42 | tvmanukrishnan | fine.. which will be good for neo1973? |
| 14:33.55 | tvmanukrishnan | prefer to install in the microSD |
| 14:34.12 | *** join/#openmoko bumbl_ (n=bumbl@91-114-186-239.adsl.highway.telekom.at) |
| 14:36.56 | *** join/#openmoko pabs3 (n=pabs@d122-105-78-211.per9.wa.optusnet.com.au) |
| 14:37.36 | tvmanukrishnan | panicking: can you help? |
| 14:38.15 | panicking | I think that shr unstable |
| 14:38.19 | tvmanukrishnan | I just checked the wiki. Found many distributions. so confused. What I need is the GPS working |
| 14:38.21 | panicking | is a good distrib |
| 14:40.14 | tvmanukrishnan | me almost downloading it. not much familiar with the device. Just got it today. need some help in installing too... |
| 14:42.16 | tvmanukrishnan | I am at http://build.shr-project.org/shr-unstable/images/om-gta01/ Which one to download? will the full version be fine in a 512MB SD card? |
| 14:44.08 | panicking | I think that there are here a lot of people that use the shr |
| 14:44.14 | panicking | but unfornutally |
| 14:44.19 | panicking | I don't use it |
| 14:44.21 | panicking | I use android |
| 14:44.30 | panicking | I know that is good |
| 14:48.23 | tvmanukrishnan | downloading the lite version of shr - unstable |
| 14:48.54 | panicking | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/SHR |
| 14:49.01 | panicking | this is what contains |
| 14:51.23 | *** part/#openmoko pabs3 (n=pabs@d122-105-78-211.per9.wa.optusnet.com.au) |
| 14:52.43 | tvmanukrishnan | thanks... |
| 14:53.00 | tvmanukrishnan | I'll be back after downloading is complete |
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| 15:13.52 | *** join/#openmoko Kame2 (n=manuel@port-92-196-114-151.dynamic.qsc.de) |
| 15:16.43 | CIA-44 | freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07specs * rb7dae334e876 10/ (3 files in 3 dirs): org.freesmartphone.GSM.SIM.GetAuthStatus(): allow 'unknown' as value |
| 15:25.56 | *** join/#openmoko sjd (n=joker@117.204.86.19) |
| 15:27.57 | sjd | hey. i ju |
| 15:28.31 | sjd | oops. sorry to hit enter soon. does moko allows to record waypoints and gps traces and make gpx files? |
| 15:28.52 | CIA-44 | freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07libfso-glib * r36763b09f5c8 10/ (.gitignore src/freesmartphone-gsm.vala src/fso-glib-1.0.vapi): remove generated file and regenerate |
| 15:29.32 | CIA-44 | freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07vala-dbus-binding-tool * r54ffd64f7bc0 10/ (configure.ac src/Makefile.am src/vala-dbus-binding-tool.vala): do not link against vala, but rather gee upstream |
| 15:30.07 | sjd | help! |
| 15:30.58 | SpeedEvil | sjd: In the past I've simply used my neo1973 by running gzip direclty on the output of the GPS daemon pipe. |
| 15:31.01 | SpeedEvil | to record the nmea |
| 15:31.30 | sjd | SpeedEvil: but i dont get the terms you use |
| 15:31.32 | tvmanukrishnan | SpeedEvil: which distrib were u using? |
| 15:31.58 | SpeedEvil | tvmanukrishnan: A _very_ old dist |
| 15:32.03 | SpeedEvil | tvmanukrishnan: err |
| 15:32.07 | sjd | SpeedEvil: oh you were using gpsd? |
| 15:32.11 | SpeedEvil | scaredycat image |
| 15:32.47 | SpeedEvil | sjd: the neo1973 - the predecessor to the freerunner had a userspacce driver for the GPS which output NMEA - the normal output format for GPSs |
| 15:32.53 | tvmanukrishnan | ops.. ma and sjd need the neo1973 to record the GPS data |
| 15:32.57 | SpeedEvil | I then used gpsbabel to convert this |
| 15:33.28 | sjd | SpeedEvil: okay that seems clear. |
| 15:33.49 | SpeedEvil | is not being very logical today. |
| 15:33.54 | sjd | SpeedEvil: now how do we get the NMEA though? |
| 15:33.58 | SpeedEvil | turned compost heaps yesterday, and am bushed. |
| 15:34.09 | SpeedEvil | sjd: I'm unsure of the proper way to do it. |
| 15:34.19 | SpeedEvil | I know that tangogps can record a logfile of sorts |
| 15:34.33 | sjd | SpeedEvil: oh |
| 15:34.50 | sjd | tvmanukrishnan: this is getting tough |
| 15:34.55 | tvmanukrishnan | sjd: tangogps is in the SHR package |
| 15:35.10 | tvmanukrishnan | sjd: so we need SHR first I hope |
| 15:35.18 | sjd | tvmanukrishnan: okay. let me look at the documentation |
| 15:35.22 | sjd | tvmanukrishnan: yes |
| 15:35.33 | tvmanukrishnan | any idea to check which is the current distrib in the moko? |
| 15:36.35 | sjd | tvmanukrishnan: awesome to hear that tangogps downloads the data from OSM! |
| 15:36.57 | tvmanukrishnan | sjd: gr8 |
| 15:37.39 | SpeedEvil | tvmanukrishnan: just tiles |
| 15:38.06 | SpeedEvil | tvmanukrishnan: but even that is handy for mapping - where are you thinking of doing? |
| 15:38.09 | sjd | SpeedEvil: still. tangogps uses the gpsd app |
| 15:38.09 | CIA-44 | freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07cornucopia * reb38865c6839 10/fsogsmd/ (7 files in 3 dirs): fsogsmd: org.freesmartphone.GSM.SIM.GetAuthStatus() done |
| 15:38.18 | *** join/#openmoko spydon (n=spydon@nl103-146-152.student.uu.se) |
| 15:38.29 | sjd | SpeedEvil: we are having a mapping party in calicut |
| 15:39.00 | SpeedEvil | Also - you want to make sure that you check the trace quality. |
| 15:39.01 | SpeedEvil | http://www.mauve.plus.com/josm.png |
| 15:39.07 | SpeedEvil | the purple is my neo1973 |
| 15:39.22 | SpeedEvil | the white track near it is 'real' |
| 15:39.39 | sjd | SpeedEvil: gotcha |
| 15:39.57 | sjd | SpeedEvil: this quality is enough for upload? |
| 15:40.07 | SpeedEvil | sjd: Well - no. |
| 15:40.10 | SpeedEvil | Not in that case. |
| 15:40.27 | sjd | SpeedEvil: oh. how do we strenthen? |
| 15:40.29 | SpeedEvil | I'm unsure if that was simply as it'd gotten very bad position in the car, I don't think so. |
| 15:40.50 | sjd | SpeedEvil: might be the issue with no reception to open sky |
| 15:41.03 | SpeedEvil | Look at the image - the scale is 65m. That was going around several blocks of houses. |
| 15:41.09 | sjd | SpeedEvil: we are taking it out. may bicycles or walking |
| 15:41.29 | SpeedEvil | You can see how the in and out tracks of the 'white' GPS line up neatly. And the neo is sort of wandering all over the place. |
| 15:41.32 | sjd | SpeedEvil: that seems poor |
| 15:41.42 | SpeedEvil | It was not usually that bad. |
| 15:42.01 | SpeedEvil | It may work better in a bike or handheld, I'm unsure. |
| 15:42.21 | sjd | SpeedEvil: then it would serve for us. we are walking = handheld |
| 15:42.24 | SpeedEvil | the area wasn't very built up - no tall buildings. It may have had poor geometry. |
| 15:42.51 | SpeedEvil | especially if it was obstructed somewhat by teh car roof |
| 15:42.59 | sjd | SpeedEvil: oh. so this trace have been generated using gpsbabel? from the userspace deamon? |
| 15:43.11 | SpeedEvil | yes |
| 15:44.29 | sjd | SpeedEvil: found it. now tangogps can create gpx files. they have a converter to use with the native type log file |
| 15:45.01 | sjd | SpeedEvil: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/TangoGPS#creating_tracks |
| 15:45.42 | SpeedEvil | I think it doesn't record any dilution of position information, which is a pity |
| 15:46.47 | sjd | SpeedEvil: there might be some other tools too? |
| 15:47.27 | SpeedEvil | I haven't kept up. I would look for a way to get gpsd to dump the NMEA stream |
| 15:47.33 | SpeedEvil | but there may be better ways |
| 15:48.54 | sjd | SpeedEvil: let me search. sometimes the osm people can help. |
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| 16:52.05 | CIA-44 | freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07cornucopia * rdad00705d7e2 10/fsogsmd/src/lib/ (atcall.vala atmediators.vala atunsolicited.vala): fsogsmd: hook to +CRING to detect incoming calls |
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| 17:19.14 | CIA-44 | freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07cornucopia * r30c2ed218a34 10/fsogsmd/src/ (4 files in 2 dirs): fsogsmd: callhandling: activate single call |
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| 19:54.44 | slaxxer | so is there a free texting program like the one for apples iphone that stops charges? |
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| 20:01.29 | SeligArkin | slaxxer: I don't berleive that is possible |
| 20:01.55 | SeligArkin | The apple program probably just uses data to use an email to sms gateway |
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| 21:20.12 | PaulFertser | lindi-: do you think it'd be nice if debian had two notions of non-free: firmware (that never runs on host) and apps (that do run on host)? |
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| 22:40.53 | CIA-44 | openmoko: 03werner * r5694 10/developers/werner/ahrt/host/tmc/lib/ (meter.py power.py): (log message trimmed) |
| 22:40.53 | CIA-44 | openmoko: Various corrections to the M3500A and mPP3040D drivers. |
| 22:40.53 | CIA-44 | openmoko: - lib/meter.py: Picotest now have a 20 port scanner card, so raise the number |
| 22:40.53 | CIA-44 | openmoko: of channels |
| 22:40.54 | CIA-44 | openmoko: - lib/meter.py: the response to ROUT:CLOS? is a comma-separated list, so we |
| 22:40.56 | CIA-44 | openmoko: have to count only the commas |
| 22:40.58 | CIA-44 | openmoko: - lib/meter.py: we had two meter.avg variables: done to set statistics mode and |
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