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| 02:24.39 | cz_jc | did anyone else notice firefox 3.5 seems to ignore dpi setting when it draws icons? that makes it unusable on fr :/ |
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| 02:27.24 | cz_jc | hmm just noticed a workaround. when I start it while in landscape mode, icons are small and stay that way even when I rotate back to portrait =) |
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| 02:47.53 | CIA-44 | openmoko: 03werner * r5687 10/trunk/gta02-core/ (docs/ecn/STATUS docs/ecn/ecn0011.txt usb.sch): |
| 02:47.53 | CIA-44 | openmoko: - moved ECN001 from "Discuss" to "Execute" and implemented it |
| 02:47.53 | CIA-44 | openmoko: - ECN0011: use D4905 instead of D4909 to avoid creating a gap in the component |
| 02:47.53 | CIA-44 | openmoko: numbers |
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| 04:34.56 | PaulFertser | ndnihil: it was me. |
| 04:35.31 | PaulFertser | ndnihil: it's not bfs fix, it's just a tweak found by guys who were researching why bfs performed better than cfs on some workloads. |
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| 04:46.24 | slaxxer | Doom Milestone II ready? |
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| 05:59.31 | PaulFertser | Inability to turn my FR on without a lab PSU is hm... unfortunate :-/ |
| 06:01.57 | raster | PaulFertser: isnt is awesome. |
| 06:01.58 | raster | :) |
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| 06:03.58 | PaulFertser | raster: i'll change Qi to set usb current limit to 400 by default. It can't harm anything anyway. |
| 06:04.30 | raster | makes sense |
| 06:04.58 | raster | normally what u'd want is the soc (here the arm 2442 tto sum up initially in its lowers clockrate (eg lest sate thats 50mhz) |
| 06:05.40 | raster | so that it draws very little current and can probably at least start on 100ma@5v (500mw) |
| 06:05.47 | raster | for the whole system that is - not just the soc |
| 06:05.56 | PaulFertser | raster: Qi does that already and boots the kernel in 100mA envelope. It's the kernel turning on everything else (first of all, BL) that's ruining the fun. |
| 06:06.03 | raster | at least that'd let up negotiate 500ma |
| 06:06.18 | raster | PaulFertser: thats totally not happy |
| 06:06.33 | raster | definitely keep everything off (and hope that things start in their off start when power comes up) |
| 06:06.37 | raster | until u have 500ma negotiated |
| 06:07.06 | raster | if u cant run the system on 500ma@5v (2.5watts) enough to then charge the battery. you have a crap piece of hw :) |
| 06:07.58 | PaulFertser | The kernel is the problem currently. But we do not have enough reasons to care that much about violating 100mA anyway. I think it's not a problem if some user uses unpowered usb hub and other devices are on and he decides to start his FR with a flat battery and the motheboard cuts off the whole hub. Not a real issue anyway. And with a quick fix to Qi to draw 400mA he'll happily boot his FR no matter what (if he doesn't use that bogus ill scenario wi |
| 06:08.00 | raster | goes back to gles |
| 06:08.04 | PaulFertser | ... a hub). |
| 06:08.47 | raster | sure |
| 06:08.53 | raster | but u need to negotiate to 500ma |
| 06:09.00 | raster | i believe 500ma is usb's max.. right? |
| 06:09.17 | raster | wondering why u are doing 400 |
| 06:10.55 | PaulFertser | raster: to let the user use an unpowered usb hub without any other heavy consumers. And the kernel will negotiate on current, just a bit later, after it actually boots :) I can't see it doing any harm that way. |
| 06:11.16 | raster | it shouldnt |
| 06:11.21 | raster | the problem is when u dont get 500ma |
| 06:11.29 | PaulFertser | And DocScrutinizer-8 agrees. He's actually always pushing for that. |
| 06:11.30 | raster | u arent guaranteed to get it |
| 06:11.42 | PaulFertser | NP, the user will just switch to the other port then. |
| 06:11.52 | raster | sure |
| 06:12.02 | raster | the problem is when u boot, ask for 500m |
| 06:12.16 | PaulFertser | And currently i just needed to actually take a lab PSU, hold the wires with great care, jump start etc. Highly suboptimal. |
| 06:12.24 | raster | then just blindly turn stuff on anyway so u turn off as u just dont get the current u asked for |
| 06:12.50 | raster | or u turn the stuff on before asking for 500m just assuming u are given 500ma |
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| 06:15.10 | PaulFertser | Those hypothetical problems (host refuses to negotiate on 500mA) are neglegible comparing to problems with booting i experienced today :) |
| 06:15.28 | raster | sure |
| 06:15.34 | raster | but thats just somethng to handle |
| 06:15.48 | raster | ie ask for 500ma - dont get it - blink eld red 10 times then power off |
| 06:16.09 | raster | and of course negotiate for it before u turn anything else on |
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| 07:16.06 | beer | ? |
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| 07:16.40 | Kamping_Kaiser | mmm. beer. |
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| 07:41.19 | DocScrutinizer-8 | raster: I'd probably hate this, as it renders all non-om wallchargers unusable |
| 07:42.04 | raster | ??? |
| 07:42.32 | raster | you shoukldt need a wallcharger if u can start on 100ma |
| 07:42.41 | DocScrutinizer-8 | [08:15] <raster> ie ask for 500ma - dont get it - blink eld red 10 times then power off |
| 07:43.09 | raster | just plug into a real pc |
| 07:43.23 | raster | i guess if you ONLY have a dumb wallcharger and nothing else |
| 07:43.36 | raster | but really.. how many people want more wallwarts? :) |
| 07:43.49 | DocScrutinizer-8 | WTF? do you suggest I buy a "real pc" for charging FR next my bed? |
| 07:44.09 | raster | you have one :) |
| 07:44.19 | raster | u dont need to buy |
| 07:44.31 | DocScrutinizer-8 | no, I don't have |
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| 07:44.47 | DocScrutinizer-8 | a PC next to where FR sits usually |
| 07:45.05 | DocScrutinizer-8 | and I don't see the problem anyway |
| 07:45.36 | DocScrutinizer-8 | FR is the fsckng *only* device on gods wide earth to care about that non-issue |
| 07:47.14 | raster | wait - last i checked u had a laptop? |
| 07:47.58 | raster | it'd be nice if there was a way to measure the current supplied |
| 07:48.01 | DocScrutinizer-8 | (actually it's NOT, as with all the meddling and messing around in uBoot and kernel FR happily takes 500mA from beginning now) |
| 07:49.31 | DocScrutinizer-8 | (as do all the other devices I know about: external drives, ubb-mugwarmers, random foo) |
| 07:50.35 | raster | as best i know u are not guaranteed to be given 500ma until u negotiate for it and get an ok |
| 07:51.09 | DocScrutinizer-8 | external usb-drives (hd) sometimes using up to 2.5A on power-up. they come with a y-cable then to split the surge to two usb-ports of PC |
| 07:51.39 | DocScrutinizer-8 | that's correct |
| 07:51.46 | DocScrutinizer-8 | but so what? |
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| 07:52.08 | Wonka | you are not even allowed(!) to draw more than 100mA before having successfully(!) negotiated for it, afaik |
| 07:52.17 | DocScrutinizer-8 | premature suicide in fear of potential death? |
| 07:52.41 | DocScrutinizer-8 | Wonka: also correct. alas nobody cares |
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| 07:53.29 | Wonka | for the wallwart, there's the ID pin |
| 07:53.43 | Wonka | for dumb chargers, there's the option to force 500mA |
| 07:53.53 | DocScrutinizer-8 | no, for the OM wallwart there is |
| 07:53.59 | Wonka | but without being forced, IMO it should act standards compliant |
| 07:54.13 | Wonka | ok, I meant the OM wallwart |
| 07:55.11 | DocScrutinizer-8 | Wonka: so you're free to continue effort to make that happen for â¬974 bl & kernel |
| 07:55.16 | Wonka | would be nice, btw, if one could force other currents too... i'd like 700mA because I have a charger with "700mA" on the label |
| 07:55.39 | DocScrutinizer-8 | s/â¬974/YOUR/ |
| 07:56.24 | Wonka | "bl"? |
| 07:56.26 | Wonka | backlight? |
| 07:56.35 | DocScrutinizer-8 | bootloader |
| 07:57.13 | Wonka | ah |
| 07:58.16 | Wonka | most times when I boot my FR, I don't need a charger or I have the OM wallwart ready - so it's quite a non-issue practically |
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| 08:00.38 | PaulFertser | DocScrutinizer-8: i'm not sure current kernel draws 500mA no matter what. At least i couldn't boot on just usb. |
| 08:01.08 | DocScrutinizer-8 | Wonka: as there's so many devices that simply don't care about enum at all (wallwarts, usb-fans, external drives) it's actually a non-issue. But not for FR but for all the usb-hosts that simply must not break on any device drawing 500 |
| 08:01.54 | Wonka | if I were a HW manufacturer, I'd put out devices that cut the 5V for 5s for overcurrents... :> |
| 08:02.28 | DocScrutinizer-8 | if you were, you're going bankrupt |
| 08:03.58 | Wonka | depends on the type of device ;) |
| 08:04.12 | DocScrutinizer-8 | the expensive host devices detect overcurrent, the less expensive only do a fixed current limiting on 500mA, the cheap ones burn on 1A. no device does adjustable usb-current-limit |
| 08:04.49 | DocScrutinizer-8 | a rogue nasty OS might decide to do what you suggested |
| 08:06.48 | DocScrutinizer-8 | but I don't know of a single device that actually takes harm in a >100mA supply on it's usb-host |
| 08:08.14 | PaulFertser | DocScrutinizer-8: and if it does it means that device is not compliant because there shouldn't be any harm for shorting anything to anything for any time. |
| 08:08.24 | DocScrutinizer-8 | and your mentioned unability to boot from USB is a really braindamaged can of bugs in uBoot, which does everything wrong on detecting low bat |
| 08:08.41 | DocScrutinizer-8 | PaulFertser: exactly |
| 08:09.39 | Defiant- | DocScrutinizer-8: so booting from USB works with Qi? |
| 08:09.54 | DocScrutinizer-8 | (bugs in uboot) not NOR uboot though |
| 08:10.19 | DocScrutinizer-8 | Defiant-: boot from usb works with NOR uboot usually |
| 08:10.43 | Defiant- | DocScrutinizer-8: k |
| 08:13.16 | PaulFertser | DocScrutinizer-8: booting from usb works with Qi but the device dies when the kernel turns on some devices (backlight, change to 400MHz etc) |
| 08:14.02 | DocScrutinizer-8 | hmm, that's bad behaviour of kernel then |
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| 08:15.18 | DocScrutinizer-8 | if Qi set usb-curlim to 100 and manages to boot to kernel, then kernel could *know* it's suicide to do that |
| 08:15.22 | PaulFertser | DocScrutinizer-8: indeed but i fail to see why doesn't anybody with a debug board solves it. Probably because nobody cares and that's why i agree we should just modify Qi to let the kernel boot. |
| 08:17.30 | DocScrutinizer-8 | oh, well. *old* uboot works great wrt to booting for me. "new" uboot is fubar and instead of charging bat even depletes bat further when it finds bat-V is "too low to boot" |
| 08:18.07 | DocScrutinizer-8 | I never used Qi so I have no opinion on that in any way |
| 08:19.43 | DocScrutinizer-8 | but obviously it's not *that* simple to get *everything* right in usb-enum's backyard. When ever werner messed it up fubar |
| 08:21.20 | DocScrutinizer-8 | s/ever/even |
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| 08:35.12 | DocScrutinizer-8 | PaulFertser: nota bene uboot and qi both can do anything only *after* device managed to "boot". So I don't see any use in further messing around with enum in bl, rather kernel should do device crank-up sequence in a sensible sequence and manner |
| 08:41.08 | PaulFertser | DocScrutinizer-8: i guess if we just allow ~400mA by initializing pcf in Qi we'll get to the enumerating without issues. |
| 08:41.42 | DocScrutinizer-8 | very usually yes we should get there |
| 08:42.45 | DocScrutinizer-8 | and that's actually the behaviour I suggest for most simple and as sane as it gets boot method |
| 08:46.53 | DocScrutinizer-8 | PaulFertser: btw, I just start to think about whether modem-enable should probe for Vbat > 3V5, as otherwise the modems behaviour isn't determined |
| 08:48.30 | PaulFertser | DocScrutinizer-8: well... i'm not sure code complication worth the benefit. Especially given sometimes voltage readings can be unavailable. |
| 08:48.52 | DocScrutinizer-8 | hmm, agree |
| 08:49.43 | andi | I often was confused because the modem did not work because of low battery |
| 08:50.32 | andi | Now I know I have to power-cycle it |
| 08:51.47 | andi | that is not very userfriendly |
| 08:51.49 | DocScrutinizer-8 | andi: yup. modem shuts down on low batvolt, though kernel(sysfs) thinks it's up and running |
| 08:52.59 | DocScrutinizer-8 | I talked with mickey|sofa about some kinda "keep alive check" in FSOs modem driver to detect modem shutdown |
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| 08:53.51 | DocScrutinizer-8 | he liked the idea iirc |
| 08:54.16 | lindi- | has had a gsm watchdog for ages now anyway ;-) |
| 08:55.55 | DocScrutinizer-8 | lindi-: I know you have a lot of basically highly useful cool stuff in your system. Alas it's mostly not implemented as nicely integrated to system/framework as it should be |
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| 12:26.21 | freerunnerlive | hi i need some modules |
| 12:26.28 | freerunnerlive | i have qtmoko v13 |
| 12:26.42 | freerunnerlive | this kernel Linux neo 2.6.29-GTA02_qtmoko-v13-mokodev |
| 12:26.55 | freerunnerlive | and this sources http://kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/v2.6/linux-2.6.29.tar.bz2 |
| 12:27.18 | freerunnerlive | at the end i have a failture : invalid modules format |
| 12:28.16 | freerunnerlive | i need videodev.ko v4l2-common.ko v4l1-compat.ko uvcvideo.ko |
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| 14:21.52 | PaulFertser_ | max_posedon: i do not think badblocks in NAND can happen because of falls ;) |
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| 15:05.53 | max_posedon | even from 2m high?( |
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| 15:09.39 | PBeck | hi |
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| 15:49.34 | DocScrutinizer | max_posedon: nah, badblocks for sure not. But corrupted fs easily, if ther was a write action in progress the moment your bat popped out |
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| 16:59.46 | xperia | ~seen leviathan |
| 16:59.51 | apt | leviathan is currently on #htc-linux. Has said a total of 16 messages. Is idling for 29s, last said: 'hmm'. |
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| 17:21.49 | pieterc | Is there an october image of SHR around? |
| 17:27.33 | pieterc | should i flash the 6 september image? |
| 17:29.40 | pieterc | mrmoku images okay? |
| 17:33.10 | slaxxer | 090609 works |
| 17:33.24 | slaxxer | shr |
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| 17:35.35 | pieterc | I like to live on the edge, so i'm flashing yesterday's images of mrmoku ;) |
| 17:35.53 | ndnihil | mrmoku? |
| 17:35.56 | ndnihil | whassat? |
| 17:36.18 | pieterc | mrmoku is mrmoku ;) |
| 17:36.20 | pieterc | http://build.shr-project.org/tests/mrmoku/unstable/images/om-gta02/ |
| 17:36.33 | ndnihil | ah still shr images |
| 17:36.39 | pieterc | yep |
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| 17:44.28 | slaxxer | when did those show up?? |
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| 17:56.36 | pieterc | no idea |
| 17:56.46 | pieterc | I'm testing one and so far I like it |
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| 17:57.08 | pieterc | It actually is pretty fast |
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| 19:07.53 | skamster | hello there |
| 19:08.20 | skamster | is there a repo for the new versions of fso and the shr-things? |
| 19:10.05 | skamster | because the normal one doesn't work.. and i'm i don't belive that it do next time.. :/ |
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| 20:40.43 | CIA-44 | freesmartphone.org: 03seba.dos1 07dos/opimd-tracking * r03d45469bc1c 10framework/framework/subsystems/opimd/helpers.py: opimd: helpers: little cosmetic fix |
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