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| 00:43.28 | Cristianpark | Hi guys |
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| 01:05.05 | Cristianpark1 | sorry, I lost connection. I asked this: Is there a way to easily change call volume during one on SHR? I've seen this on OM 2008.12 so maybe there is a way to do that on SHR |
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| 03:19.18 | root_demon | hello moko people |
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| 03:22.25 | root_demon | as far as mindless user-friendly distros go, would you say that qtmoko is the most matured? |
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| 03:47.46 | linuxxr | should there not be a uboot an Qi on the shr-u site? |
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| 03:55.15 | Kagee | linuxxr: uboot and qi is not something you update very often |
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| 08:08.31 | cz_jc | raster, I just met your evil twin :D |
| 08:08.40 | cz_jc | raster, he was on gentoo asking on help for mips |
| 08:08.57 | cz_jc | raster, I mean #gentoo. first he was named raster_, now rastersoft :P |
| 08:09.28 | cz_jc | raster, I had a real kick of you starting to use gentoo and switching to mips :D |
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| 08:15.16 | raster | cz_jc: not so lucky. |
| 08:15.58 | cz_jc | raster, haha, hi btw |
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| 08:17.02 | raster | :) |
| 08:17.24 | raster | as if i'd expose myself to the pain of trying gentoo? got better things to do :) |
| 08:17.45 | raster | gentoo is great for people with waaaay too much time on their hands :) |
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| 08:18.48 | radekp | especially those who are compiling straight on Freerunner :) |
| 08:19.03 | raster | oh god no. that'd be more than pain |
| 08:19.03 | cz_jc | raster, or on architectures where official support for packages sucks hard or is basically nonexistent |
| 08:19.17 | cz_jc | raster, I use distcc you know :D |
| 08:19.18 | raster | cz_jc: i find myself not on one of those :) |
| 08:19.24 | cz_jc | I do |
| 08:19.31 | cz_jc | I'm running on ARM and Neo Freerunner |
| 08:19.34 | cz_jc | no ubuntu here |
| 08:19.46 | raster | and my target devices when i work on them.. are supported.., and generally have a snowballs chance in hell of self-hosting within sanity limits |
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| 08:20.05 | raster | i have better things to do than wait 6 weeks for the os to compile |
| 08:20.05 | raster | :) |
| 08:20.24 | cz_jc | raster, (or just use a binhost and get binary packages for whatever is precompiled) |
| 08:20.43 | raster | at which point your system is binary supported |
| 08:20.43 | raster | :) |
| 08:20.57 | raster | (well by gentoo - or for that matter by a bunch of other systems) |
| 08:21.07 | cz_jc | raster, yes and you still have recipes for many packages that are not precompiled which you can possibly even cross compile on a host system |
| 08:21.10 | raster | either way my targets are not even supported by gentoo |
| 08:21.18 | raster | letalone openembedeed or anythign else |
| 08:21.38 | cz_jc | raster, even unsupported targets work with gentoo, its all a matter of architecture |
| 08:21.45 | raster | they wont |
| 08:21.50 | raster | as u have no kernel for them |
| 08:22.00 | raster | since even upstream kernel support isnt there yet |
| 08:22.01 | cz_jc | and usually, just inventing your own keyword will get 'unsupported' packages compiled anyway |
| 08:22.15 | cz_jc | raster, yeah if you have no kernel then its bad |
| 08:22.17 | raster | letalone the fact that even if thewre is - the upstream kernel has no driver support for 1/2 the soc |
| 08:22.35 | cz_jc | raster, you don't have to use upstream kernel with gentoo |
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| 08:23.05 | raster | i have systems where the flashing mechanism is proprietary, where the kernel is stoo |
| 08:23.09 | raster | there isnt source for it... |
| 08:23.12 | raster | well not that i have |
| 08:23.24 | raster | not to mention the base os, plus telephony stack and more... |
| 08:23.37 | raster | gentoo would be a glorious waste of my time :( |
| 08:23.40 | cz_jc | raster, any package can provide a kernel, you can just import your own kernel from git using a 5-liner or so |
| 08:23.40 | cz_jc | raster, then you add kernel to package.provide and stick in a binary kernel ;) |
| 08:23.41 | cz_jc | but lack of kernel headers, etc may be bad |
| 08:23.41 | cz_jc | especially if they modified some major subsystems |
| 08:24.14 | cz_jc | otherwise I found even with a bad config, I don't get any bad errors with vanilla kernel sources linked apps on my om-specific kernel |
| 08:24.40 | raster | as i said... it'd be a waste of my time |
| 08:24.51 | raster | as it stands now i have a working system i can modify and update the bits i am working on |
| 08:24.51 | cz_jc | raster, but then even if it was not gentoo, you wouldn't be able to compile apps for such system |
| 08:25.08 | raster | gentoo would be a timesink for days if not weeks of my tiome to port it and get it working |
| 08:25.20 | raster | i am able to compile for it |
| 08:25.26 | cz_jc | raster, yeah, imo gentoo is compiling by hand + a lot of convenience scripts for it :) |
| 08:25.34 | raster | correct |
| 08:25.38 | raster | and that has already been done |
| 08:25.44 | raster | with chunks pre-build and provided as binaries |
| 08:26.23 | cz_jc | yeah you can have prebuilt binaries but whats the point of having gentoo then |
| 08:26.54 | raster | thats what i was saying |
| 08:26.56 | raster | its no point |
| 08:27.19 | raster | and my desktops/laptops are already well supported by unbuntu and i have better thigns to do that recompile them |
| 08:27.41 | cz_jc | mine is not X-) |
| 08:28.00 | cz_jc | but I got so used to it I have a working system within a day with pretty easy maintenance |
| 08:28.03 | cz_jc | I'm really happy |
| 08:28.16 | cz_jc | whatever works, works.. right ? |
| 08:28.38 | raster | yup |
| 08:28.53 | raster | i guess i like a workign system in < 1hr with ubntu |
| 08:28.57 | raster | i dotn have the patience to wait a day |
| 08:29.31 | raster | irf i actually needed to compile large chunks of my system.. i would consider it |
| 08:29.38 | raster | but the days of needing to do that are well and truly over |
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| 08:31.00 | Kero | my Illume decided on boot-up it was the first time; and contrary to earlier times when selecting quick-start apps, it applied my empty selection. |
| 08:31.32 | raster | doesnt matter |
| 08:31.35 | Kero | so now I have no icons on my main screen. what's the command to initialize again, or which config file to edit to get the icons back? |
| 08:31.38 | raster | those are only userful in normal e |
| 08:31.42 | raster | illume doesnt use those |
| 08:32.09 | raster | if tis illume it'll display all your apps as would appear in a system launcher app menu |
| 08:32.10 | cz_jc | raster, yeah but fortunately I don't install that often :) |
| 08:33.13 | cz_jc | Kero, check if /tmp is user writable |
| 08:33.28 | cz_jc | Kero, that did serious problems for me with e as it couldn't create some socket |
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| 08:33.55 | cz_jc | (it ran but no illume icons, etc) |
| 08:34.36 | raster | e would not be happy with a non writable /tmp |
| 08:34.37 | raster | :) |
| 08:35.22 | cz_jc | yeah I really dunno how my /tmp got such borked permissions, must've been some random damage |
| 08:35.52 | Kero | quite writable. tmpfs and all, enlightenment-root file is in there. |
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| 08:36.33 | cz_jc | it took me a while to discover too XD |
| 08:36.51 | Kero | I've seen ext2 breakage with deleted /var/* that was half there (after battery ran out), error complained about NFS file system. X did not even boot, at that time. |
| 08:37.36 | raster | just rm -rf ~/.e and boot again |
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| 08:37.39 | raster | u'll start cleanly |
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| 08:40.56 | lindi- | raster: why reboot to restart window manager? |
| 08:41.22 | *** join/#openmoko [Rui] (n=Rui@195.138.0.74) |
| 08:41.47 | raster | lindi-: because i'm tired of telling people how to stop and styart their x session |
| 08:41.50 | raster | reboot is shorter to type |
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| 08:42.14 | lindi- | raster: icewm has a 'restart icewm' menu option |
| 08:42.20 | Kero | there we go, NFS errors when I try to remove ~/.e :( |
| 08:42.35 | cz_jc | hehe |
| 08:42.38 | cz_jc | uses slim on his fr |
| 08:42.48 | cz_jc | very nice display manager by the way |
| 08:42.52 | cz_jc | and its the correct way to go imo |
| 08:42.53 | Kero | but I know how to get rid of those. thx! |
| 08:43.26 | raster | lindi-: e does too - except e likes to repopulate dirs. when u restart it will try save config and go "ooh no! no ~/.e dir! let me refill the dirs for u. they were lost, so i can save my config" |
| 08:43.46 | raster | Kero: dude. if u have nfs errors on a freerunner.. u are doing somethnig wrong. |
| 08:44.34 | lindi- | raster: ah, icewm does not write to ~/.icewm ever afaik |
| 08:45.42 | raster | yup |
| 08:45.43 | raster | different |
| 08:45.48 | raster | e manages its own config |
| 08:45.55 | raster | has gui dialogs for it and saves state |
| 08:46.11 | raster | thigns like window remembers (rememebr the desktop, posotion, size, and other states of a window) need to be saved somewhere |
| 08:46.18 | raster | icewm doesnt do those things |
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| 08:46.30 | raster | e very much more "takes care of itself" |
| 08:47.11 | raster | and thus is aggressive at wanting to be able to save its state. it does this whenevrr such state/config changes (well given a delay to collect multiple changes together) and on exit/restart to ensure its current state is never lost |
| 08:47.39 | [Rui] | how hard would it be to write a simple script to /usr/bin/resx for people to restart X ? :) echo '(nohup /etc/init.d/xserver-nodm restart&)' > /usr/bin/resx ? |
| 08:48.00 | raster | killall X(fbdev) |
| 08:48.02 | raster | or Xglamo |
| 08:48.03 | raster | or xinit |
| 08:48.04 | raster | pick |
| 08:48.11 | raster | and then use the oe x restart script |
| 08:48.16 | raster | i just get bored of explaining it |
| 08:48.57 | [Rui] | raster: I know and understand, I'm just saying, that such a simple script could be put by default in /usr/bin |
| 08:49.06 | raster | it could be |
| 08:49.09 | raster | but it isnt there |
| 08:49.13 | [Rui] | then only telling people there's a command resx for a "quick" restart :) |
| 08:49.14 | cz_jc | also possibly Xorg XD |
| 08:49.44 | cz_jc | [Rui], not on my system with vanilla Xorg |
| 08:50.06 | [Rui] | cz_jc: but you're not with shr-u right? :) |
| 08:50.17 | cz_jc | [Rui], nopeXD |
| 08:50.25 | [Rui] | of course that script was oriented as a proof of concept on nodm :) |
| 08:50.50 | cz_jc | why nodm if there is a dm that is plain and simple and takes proper care of your X ? |
| 08:51.03 | [Rui] | more elaboration could add a few ifs... if [ -x /etc/init.d/xserver ] ... elif [ -x /etc/init.d/xserver-nodm ], etc... |
| 08:51.22 | [Rui] | cz_jc: sorry that's bad |
| 08:51.27 | raster | cz_jc: for embedded devices u dont need a "dm" |
| 08:51.37 | [Rui] | cz_jc: in low memory devices you don't want useless processes running around |
| 08:51.38 | raster | all u need is something that starts x |
| 08:51.41 | raster | u doint log in |
| 08:51.51 | cz_jc | raster, what if X crashes for some reason and the system is unsuable without X (touchscreen) ? |
| 08:52.00 | raster | x restarts are really incredibly rare if ever nedded, and at that point u can just as well reboot |
| 08:52.08 | cz_jc | raster, happens sometimes, slim restarts X server for example |
| 08:52.15 | raster | cz_jc: any x crash should have the system start a reboot/shutdown |
| 08:52.19 | cz_jc | its a tiny DM just for autologgin a user session |
| 08:52.31 | raster | chances are that a crash at that level may have to do with hw drvierz |
| 08:52.35 | cz_jc | raster, then you can set slim to reboot the system when X crashes ;) |
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| 08:52.43 | raster | as x is really a user-mode drvier.. u are best off getting your system a clean reboot |
| 08:53.09 | cz_jc | gdm for example tries to restart X serveral times and troubleshoot the problem afterwards |
| 08:53.13 | raster | i've been doing things long enough to know how bad things can get after x crashes.. and trying to ressurrect things without a reboot |
| 08:53.19 | cz_jc | (usually doesnt end up well of course) |
| 08:53.26 | raster | as for slim - u dont even need it if all u do is reboot |
| 08:53.35 | raster | its simply part of the x script |
| 08:53.53 | cz_jc | raster, still if I can do it correctly with a tiny C application, I go for it :) |
| 08:53.56 | raster | once the xinit process exits (For whatever reson) just issue a shutdown -h now |
| 08:54.01 | cz_jc | you all run your systems under root, I don't XD |
| 08:54.03 | raster | there is zero need for anything more complex |
| 08:54.12 | cz_jc | and theres slim for starting my user session |
| 08:54.33 | raster | xinit can be run as a user id |
| 08:54.39 | cz_jc | raster, sounds like a job for init system then |
| 08:54.56 | raster | su -c xinit username |
| 08:55.02 | raster | indeed |
| 08:55.06 | cz_jc | raster, why not make X a default login shell instead of agetty while youre at it ? hehe |
| 08:55.07 | raster | its a job for your init system imho |
| 08:55.18 | raster | be that scripts or whatever |
| 08:55.26 | raster | there is no need for multiple users on devices |
| 08:56.52 | raster | getty runs on a specific tty |
| 08:56.56 | raster | x is a service - like a daemon |
| 08:57.06 | raster | u just shoudl start x really early in boot |
| 08:57.15 | raster | part of your x login would literally be boot status |
| 08:57.23 | raster | (like login animation, progress bar etc. etc.) |
| 08:57.31 | raster | as other services u need come up in the backgorund |
| 08:57.45 | raster | once u have enough for the gui to be functional - u finish boot |
| 08:58.03 | raster | anythngin else extra comes up in the bg under a loooow priority (eg nice'd) |
| 08:58.13 | [Rui] | raster: reboot makes it take the triple of the time, sadly |
| 08:58.38 | cz_jc | ah sorry I'm blacking out, I'm at school and have to suspend often. also the connection sucks |
| 08:58.49 | raster | [Rui]: thats another matter entirely. inefficient boot. |
| 08:58.58 | Kero | blergh, fsck did not help. furtunately `mv .e elsewhere` did. |
| 08:59.11 | [Rui] | raster: yeah ;) but a pratical current concern |
| 08:59.11 | raster | as i said.. its VERY rare that u need to restart x |
| 08:59.23 | raster | x has become totally dynamic in almsot all its config |
| 08:59.24 | [Rui] | raster: and I disagree with you on the "multiuser" thing for phones |
| 08:59.30 | [Rui] | raster: there should be two users |
| 08:59.34 | [Rui] | root and your user |
| 08:59.37 | raster | the only reasons i can think of are an upgrade to x and./or driver code (or kernel drivers below it) |
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| 09:00.00 | raster | if x crashes this likely leaves the whole gfx hw in an inconsistent state. this is almost always a good reason to reboot to get it consistent |
| 09:00.11 | [Rui] | I dread the day something very bad happens and because I'm root it'll have a huge impact on my data |
| 09:00.34 | raster | not to mention a crash is likely the sign of something having corrupted more as x has mmap access to many memory regions it could screw with other drivers, hw and even userspace memory, fs data etc. |
| 09:00.49 | raster | u want to reboot and clean up asap after x has segv'd/crashed etc. |
| 09:01.03 | raster | as for multiuser - i dont consider root + you as multi |
| 09:01.04 | raster | :) |
| 09:01.11 | raster | u never log in as a different user |
| 09:01.28 | raster | u simpy get some level of protection as u have to jump through a specific "root hole" to get access to things |
| 09:01.41 | cz_jc | my phone is multiuser friendly until it comes to FSO apps which need to run in a single instance under root |
| 09:01.41 | cz_jc | they spit creepy edje errors otherwise (permissions or something ?) |
| 09:01.42 | raster | eg u have a root daemon that u request services from - this acts as a layer of protection. |
| 09:01.52 | raster | but u dont log in as "jane" then log out and in as "bob" |
| 09:01.58 | *** join/#openmoko spydon (n=spydon@nl103-146-152.student.uu.se) |
| 09:02.32 | raster | mind u - in the end.. your data is still owned by "you" - be that root or a non uid 0 user. |
| 09:02.45 | cz_jc | yes I also don't consider me + root multiuser |
| 09:02.47 | raster | if somethnig happens "your data" is still at risk. as it is on your desktop or laptop |
| 09:02.52 | cz_jc | I meant multiple users besides root |
| 09:03.05 | raster | cz_jc: yup. i agree that really there should be the normal user as a non-root user |
| 09:03.06 | cz_jc | slim makes that possible but with current fso apps status, only one user would be able to phone |
| 09:03.13 | raster | and then root "holes" to jump through |
| 09:03.16 | cz_jc | and it won't switch to his screen when a call goes, etc |
| 09:03.23 | raster | but its frankly easier to do it all as root. |
| 09:03.28 | raster | but i wouldnt do it if i had the choice. |
| 09:03.30 | *** join/#openmoko amarsh04 (n=amarsh04@118.210.95.41) |
| 09:04.06 | cz_jc | raster, you have a clean record when it comes to me, illume works flawlessly under user :D |
| 09:04.17 | cz_jc | its the fso -bound userspace apps that suck |
| 09:04.18 | cz_jc | they have some edje problems |
| 09:05.17 | raster | cz_jc: well some things wont 100% work right.. like monitoring bluetooth devidfec.. i think |
| 09:05.20 | raster | i think i need read perms |
| 09:05.28 | raster | but i generally do the right thing and make "root holes" where i need them |
| 09:05.41 | raster | eg for opening netlink sockets to get wifi signal strength |
| 09:06.04 | raster | but i am like you - i believe user = root have their "separations" and thats how it should be |
| 09:06.18 | raster | the problem is the pita in creating the "jumping thru a setuid root binary hole" to get access often |
| 09:07.11 | cz_jc | raster, bluetooth works in e ? |
| 09:07.11 | cz_jc | raster, I use blueman for that :) |
| 09:07.11 | cz_jc | that breaks down to tray not working in illume |
| 09:07.11 | cz_jc | which I worked around by moving a shelf over the illume top with a tray icon plugin :D |
| 09:07.17 | cz_jc | raster, ooh btw blueman notifications (which are supposed to use libnotify) don't work too.. |
| 09:07.23 | raster | oh that simply is an iocn that shows if bt pwoer is on or off |
| 09:07.25 | raster | nothing more |
| 09:07.37 | cz_jc | raster, that icon works :) |
| 09:07.41 | raster | i rummage thru some /sys files to read that |
| 09:07.42 | cz_jc | raster, I get it when I turn bluetooth n |
| 09:07.49 | raster | ooh cool! so doesnt need root perms to read |
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| 09:07.52 | raster | then.. should be fine |
| 09:08.32 | raster | and notifications - u'd need the notification module |
| 09:08.39 | raster | but its really not ments for such things |
| 09:08.44 | raster | its not 100% what u want |
| 09:10.21 | cz_jc | the tray and libnotify are pissing me off though |
| 09:10.21 | cz_jc | I tried peeking in the sources, found illume but didn't understand it yet.. |
| 09:10.46 | cz_jc | raster, oh ! I'll look for it :) |
| 09:10.48 | cz_jc | thanks :) |
| 09:10.54 | cz_jc | I thought it was already in the tray |
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| 09:11.04 | raster | nah |
| 09:11.08 | raster | tray is a tray |
| 09:11.09 | raster | thats it |
| 09:11.10 | cz_jc | raster, since it shows a notification when battery is low, etc |
| 09:11.14 | raster | notification is another standard entirely |
| 09:11.25 | raster | thats something entirely different |
| 09:11.28 | raster | thats just e's internal stuff |
| 09:11.32 | cz_jc | ok.. |
| 09:11.33 | raster | popping up a window letting u know |
| 09:11.43 | raster | well battery modulke to be specific |
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| 09:12.16 | cz_jc | raster, btw. is there a way to add a 'one directory up' button to toolbar of filemanager ? |
| 09:13.38 | raster | to w'f filemangager? |
| 09:13.41 | raster | err to e's fm? |
| 09:13.44 | cz_jc | raster, yes |
| 09:14.05 | cz_jc | my initial guess was to use enlightenment_fm_open $(pwd)/../ |
| 09:14.32 | cz_jc | in a .desktop file |
| 09:14.37 | cz_jc | didn't try that yet.. |
| 09:14.47 | *** join/#openmoko laotseu_ (n=laotseu@80.73.248.178) |
| 09:15.57 | raster | try efm_nav module |
| 09:16.03 | raster | and enable toolbar in filemanager module |
| 09:16.19 | cz_jc | raster, thx, I'll try when I get to my fr :) |
| 09:18.04 | raster | also enable "open dirs in place" |
| 09:18.11 | raster | u'lkl get just what u want |
| 09:18.31 | cz_jc | yep |
| 09:18.40 | raster | if u prefer listviews - u can enable single click |
| 09:18.46 | cz_jc | raster, another thing, can you add list of mounted devices there ? |
| 09:19.14 | raster | sorry if u prefer listviews - right lcik and change to list view. it will remember per directory if u had list, icon et.c view |
| 09:19.27 | raster | singlick click is a global option again in the fm pres |
| 09:19.28 | raster | prefs |
| 09:19.43 | cz_jc | yeah, I did that :) |
| 09:19.43 | cz_jc | raster, I mean the icons that are on filemanager desktop for pen drives, etc. |
| 09:19.43 | cz_jc | because I switched to illume launcher and I'd like to be able to umount my pendrives via e :) |
| 09:19.43 | cz_jc | yep :) |
| 09:19.58 | raster | the favorites sectuion will list all moutable devices (well that hal exposes and says are there with media in them) |
| 09:20.01 | raster | err hal not hel |
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| 09:20.28 | raster | mind u illume wasnt realy made to work with e's fm as u are doing it |
| 09:20.34 | cz_jc | raster, yeah. for now I use dbus calls which I don't like.. |
| 09:20.56 | cz_jc | again I think it could be solved by making a dir where .desktop files that umount devices are automatically made |
| 09:20.59 | cz_jc | but its a stupid approach :) |
| 09:21.18 | raster | there is |
| 09:21.25 | cz_jc | raster, yeah thats the point, I'm only using illume launcher and disabled fm desktop :) |
| 09:21.30 | raster | ~/.e/e/fileman/favorites |
| 09:21.36 | raster | as well as links to your "favorite" places |
| 09:21.43 | raster | (root, tmp, homedir) etc. |
| 09:21.48 | cz_jc | raster, so I don't get pendrives on my illume desktop |
| 09:21.56 | cz_jc | raster, they show up there ? |
| 09:21.58 | cz_jc | oh ! |
| 09:22.00 | cz_jc | raster, thanks ! |
| 09:22.17 | raster | e's "main menu" id u have the start module or can somehow get to it has a "files" entry |
| 09:22.22 | raster | this "files" entry bring sup this dfir |
| 09:22.28 | raster | as a submenu |
| 09:22.30 | raster | plus some extras |
| 09:22.57 | Fox_Muldr | hi |
| 09:23.07 | raster | if u enable toolbar in efm and efm_+nav |
| 09:23.15 | raster | and add it to the toolbarm u'll get a hearty icon |
| 09:23.22 | raster | this is the favorites dir too |
| 09:23.35 | raster | lots of options |
| 09:24.02 | cz_jc | raster, beautiful... my friends burst with jealousy as it is when I can put multiple disks/pendrives to my system and theyr filemanagers shows up making thumbnails of pictures :D |
| 09:25.00 | cz_jc | ability to umount via e and more usability of efm will be a kickass icing on the cake :) |
| 09:25.53 | raster | :) |
| 09:26.42 | [Rui] | raster: can we have good lists of widgets in Elementary? |
| 09:26.58 | [Rui] | raster: I'll give you an example: elmdentica |
| 09:27.14 | [Rui] | I'd like to have a list of bubble widgets |
| 09:27.36 | raster | ??? |
| 09:27.55 | raster | list of widgets fromt he running app? or list of eidgets elm supports? |
| 09:27.56 | [Rui] | raster: the current lists expect: something, label, something |
| 09:28.02 | raster | or list of styles supported.. or? |
| 09:28.40 | [Rui] | raster: what I'd like is somehting like elm_list but that would be more generic |
| 09:29.03 | raster | put a box in a scroller |
| 09:29.06 | raster | pack things into the box |
| 09:29.17 | [Rui] | raster: I tried to have a box with a reply/redent set of buttons as the "icon", no label, and a bubble as the rightmost part |
| 09:29.22 | [Rui] | and that doesn't work well |
| 09:29.27 | raster | if u ewant something that can have bizarre styles per item and hold multiple icons, labels and states |
| 09:29.37 | [Rui] | raster: yeah, that's what I'm doing and is insufficient |
| 09:29.38 | raster | and have each item even be a differnet sisze - genlist |
| 09:29.53 | raster | it should scale to 1000's or even millions of items. |
| 09:30.14 | [Rui] | raster: have you ever seen elmdentica? |
| 09:30.23 | raster | no - havent |
| 09:30.25 | raster | show me |
| 09:30.28 | [Rui] | for each bubble it has two buttons on the left |
| 09:30.44 | [Rui] | http://code.google.com/p/elmdentica/ |
| 09:30.55 | [Rui] | the nice screenshot on that page "almost" says it all |
| 09:31.17 | raster | aaah ekshellent |
| 09:31.31 | raster | so what dont u like about your current method? |
| 09:31.57 | [Rui] | raster: it wastes too much screen space |
| 09:32.10 | [Rui] | I'd preffer to have a "toolbar" of buttons |
| 09:32.11 | raster | what do u want to do? |
| 09:32.18 | raster | have u got some sort of mockup or example? |
| 09:32.19 | [Rui] | and then I'd press on a bubble and it would be sellected |
| 09:32.26 | [Rui] | then I could just press reply |
| 09:32.53 | raster | so u want the buttons on the left to only be visible / take space once an item is selected? |
| 09:32.53 | [Rui] | to each bubble I associate the pointer to a list of "dents" |
| 09:33.09 | [Rui] | raster: for instance |
| 09:33.40 | [Rui] | raster: that would be one way to do it (probably the best), and I didn't see how to do it (maybe it's my fault) |
| 09:33.53 | [Rui] | raster: another was to always have the buttons, but only "two" in the bottom |
| 09:34.03 | [Rui] | then you'd press on a bubble and the buttons owuld affect that buble |
| 09:34.17 | raster | well u could simply have an verttical box |
| 09:34.22 | raster | each item is a horizontal box |
| 09:34.48 | raster | add a clicked callbask to bubble - but that wont 100% work because i didnt expose that, but i can expose a clicked on it |
| 09:34.57 | raster | anyway |
| 09:35.00 | [Rui] | raster: and |
| 09:35.03 | [Rui] | raster: ah... |
| 09:35.04 | raster | each item.. even better - couble be a table |
| 09:35.31 | raster | table has bubble packed at 0, 1 1x2 |
| 09:35.38 | raster | there are 2 empty "button" slots on the left |
| 09:35.53 | raster | now add an invisible rectangle(color 0 0 0 0) |
| 09:35.57 | raster | add mouse down callback |
| 09:36.01 | raster | and ALSO pack that at |
| 09:36.06 | raster | 0, 1 1x2 |
| 09:36.11 | raster | raise it above bubble |
| 09:36.22 | raster | it will always be above and packed int he same spot and it will capture your presses |
| 09:36.37 | raster | on a press - find the parent table (u'll have some struct with this and a list of them) |
| 09:36.45 | raster | and now create and pack 2 buttons at |
| 09:36.52 | raster | 0, 0 1x1 and 0, 1 1x2 |
| 09:37.09 | raster | delete the buttons if u click on another bubble entry (and create a new set) |
| 09:37.36 | [Rui] | raster: that seems to wast a lot of cycles |
| 09:37.58 | [Rui] | but perhaps I can have that invisble rectange in the bottom and have it show up when a bubble is clicked? |
| 09:38.17 | [Rui] | raster: so the bubble supports click, even though it isn't yet declared in Elementary.h ? |
| 09:38.22 | raster | u wont get the click |
| 09:38.26 | [Rui] | ah |
| 09:38.30 | raster | and bubble doesnt - i dont thinkl |
| 09:38.33 | raster | i dont think 9i made it |
| 09:38.51 | raster | nup.p. didnt |
| 09:38.59 | raster | the invisible rect is to get the click |
| 09:39.04 | raster | it isnty that much extra work for evas |
| 09:39.06 | [Rui] | but I could have the invisible rectangles above the bbuble anyway and have the same set of buttons show and hide in the bottom, perhaps |
| 09:39.46 | [Rui] | raster: well, I'm going to try to explore your hints and probably some derivations... |
| 09:40.03 | [Rui] | so now I have to save this piece of text for later and leave work as early as I can to try them :) |
| 09:40.15 | [Rui] | gah, 8 hours to go :( |
| 09:40.30 | raster | :) |
| 09:40.43 | [Rui] | raster: thank you very much for your insights :) |
| 09:40.53 | mjr | hmm, wonder how involved to get shr to offer the usual dun networking... |
| 09:41.05 | mjr | (would like to test blueman, mostly) |
| 09:42.55 | cz_jc | mjr, I tested blueman on my FR on gentoo already |
| 09:43.10 | cz_jc | mjr, works but doesn't show notifications yet (it was my error) |
| 09:43.47 | cz_jc | mjr, anyway I made a PAN network with my phone and even pushing files or browsing over obex works flawlessly |
| 09:43.55 | cz_jc | fr shows up as a laptop bluetooth device, hehehe |
| 09:44.03 | mjr | :) |
| 09:44.36 | cz_jc | rfcomm uart emulation is no problem either |
| 09:44.49 | cz_jc | if PAN doesn't work for you, you can push ppp network through that :) |
| 09:44.54 | cz_jc | I didn't test HID or audio profiles |
| 09:45.00 | cz_jc | should work with pulseaudio imo |
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| 12:37.35 | CIA-44 | freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07phonesim * rf39f66e9667b 10/modems/ti_calypso.xml: ti_calypso.xml: properly configure +FCLASS command |
| 12:37.36 | CIA-44 | freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07phonesim * recccd96c559e 10/modems/ti_calypso.xml: ti_calypso.xml: add microphone muting and loudspeaker support (CMUT/CLVL) |
| 12:37.40 | CIA-44 | freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07phonesim * ra9b4116bc8c7 10/modems/ (generic.xml neo1973.xml ti_calypso.xml): remove neo1973.xml; create generic.xml from ti_calypso.xml and remove all Calypso-specific commands |
| 12:37.40 | CIA-44 | freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07phonesim * r27c3d80a3f0c 10/modems/generic.xml: generic.xml: don't add IMEI: prefix for +CGSN, this is unlikely |
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| 12:40.15 | CIA-44 | freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07cornucopia * rbcca20bd2425 10/fsogsmd/ (4 files in 2 dirs): fsogsmd: simplify simple (sic!) AT command classes by deriving from SimpleAtCommand |
| 12:40.16 | CIA-44 | freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07cornucopia * ra25522d2b9f2 10/fsodeviced/ (configure.ac src/plugins/alsa_audio/plugin.vala): fsodeviced: catch up with libgee HashMap changes; bump vala requirement |
| 12:40.18 | CIA-44 | freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07cornucopia * rc87a8f6fcdca 10/fsousaged/ (configure.ac src/plugins/controller/plugin.vala): fsousaged: catch up with libgee master; bump vala version requirement |
| 12:40.19 | CIA-44 | freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07cornucopia * re90cbc8ebdfc 10/fsonetworkd/configure.ac: fsonetworkd: bump vala version requirement |
| 12:40.23 | CIA-44 | freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07cornucopia * r2c3d130609a4 10/fsotimed/ (configure.ac src/plugins/alarm/plugin.vala): fsotimed: catch up with libgee master; bump vala version requirement |
| 12:40.26 | CIA-44 | freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07cornucopia * re75d2a8d2675 10/fsogsmd/configure.ac: fsogsmd: bump vala version requirement due to async dbus fixes in 0.7.7 |
| 12:40.29 | CIA-44 | freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07cornucopia * r286c15a1501f 10/fsogsmd/ (4 files in 2 dirs): fsogsmd: base PlusCFUN on SimpleAtCommand<int> |
| 12:40.32 | CIA-44 | freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07cornucopia * r46d85b581ca7 10/fsogsmd/ (3 files in 2 dirs): fsogsmd: create generic issue implementation for SimpleAtCommand |
| 12:40.35 | CIA-44 | freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07cornucopia * r5381c7b7e4ff 10/fsogsmd/ (src/lib/atcommands.vala tests/testatcommand.vala): fsogsmd: substitute PlusCGCLASS with SimpleAtCommand<string> |
| 12:40.38 | CIA-44 | freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07cornucopia * re36f1b6fd337 10/fsogsmd/src/ (6 files in 2 dirs): fsogsmd: spice up SimpleAtCommand class to feature test commands (=?) |
| 12:40.43 | CIA-44 | freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07cornucopia * r04ccf9865fd2 10/fsogsmd/src/lib/ (atcommands.vala mediators.vala): fsogsmd: add +CMICKEY command to prepare for sane error handling |
| 12:40.46 | CIA-44 | freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07cornucopia * r20c875480c41 10/fsogsmd/src/lib/ (atcommand.vala mediator.vala mediators.vala): fsogsmd: prepare for At command classes parsing responses as a whole |
| 12:40.49 | CIA-44 | freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07cornucopia * r30535648fa79 10/libfsoframework/ (3 files in 2 dirs): libfsoframework: remove generated vapi file; logger is now a public attribute |
| 12:40.54 | CIA-44 | freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07cornucopia * r7fc165e322a4 10/libfsobasics/ (configure.ac fsobasics/fsobasics-2.0.vapi): libfsobasics: remove generated vapi file |
| 12:40.57 | CIA-44 | freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07cornucopia * rbfd67223698f 10/libfsotransport/ (configure.ac fsotransport/fsotransport-2.0.vapi): libfsotransport: remove generated vapi file |
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| 13:21.47 | CIA-44 | freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07cornucopia * r327f69eb853a 10/ (4 files in 4 dirs): all: require libgee 0.5.0 |
| 13:21.47 | CIA-44 | freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07cornucopia * rdb19789af978 10/fsogsmd/src/ (6 files in 2 dirs): fsogsmd: use validate function, instead of parsing directly |
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| 13:32.24 | FredWP | ;/ |
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| 14:23.33 | PaulFertser | mjr: hey |
| 14:23.43 | PaulFertser | mjr: usual dun networking works without troubles |
| 14:23.51 | PaulFertser | mjr: at least for me. No blueman necessary. |
| 14:24.18 | mjr | I was spesifically interested in testing blueman |
| 14:24.35 | PaulFertser | mjr: Heinervdm did some work to prepare proper BB recipe. |
| 14:24.50 | PaulFertser | mjr: is it really cool btw? Why should anyone use it? |
| 14:25.28 | Heinervdm | PaulFertser: after freedesktop.org will come back, i will compile all missing depencies for blueman too |
| 14:25.31 | mjr | presumably one probably shouldn't if one has eg. new gnome which seems to have the essentials included |
| 14:26.02 | PaulFertser | mjr: no, what is the motivation to use it on FR? Is it really faster to use comparing to cli way.? |
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| 14:26.40 | mjr | ...testing it on a laptop _against_ FR because that's my phone |
| 14:27.30 | PaulFertser | mjr: yes, but i'm trying to understand if i really miss anything by not having it on my FR. |
| 14:27.40 | mjr | no |
| 14:28.27 | PaulFertser | Why do you want to have it then? |
| 14:30.04 | gurguration | is it necessary to upgrade gsm firmware? |
| 14:30.32 | gurguration | Sometime my FR cannot receive calls when am suspended |
| 14:30.45 | gurguration | is there fix for it? |
| 14:31.32 | gurguration | i guess it's calypso issue |
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| 14:32.20 | PaulFertser | Fuck |
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| 15:20.12 | PBeck | hi |
| 15:27.05 | FredWP | Hi. |
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| 17:10.37 | beer__ | is there news on plan B or gta 03( or another nice open source mobile phone)? |
| 17:10.58 | PaulFertser | Nope |
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| 17:15.51 | linuxxr | anybody used mokotouch? |
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| 17:19.12 | beer__ | Early today I was looking for at jffs image of mokotouch but I could not find it so I tried openwrt that crashd so I am back om qtmoko (v12 insteas of v11 I sued yeasterday) |
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| 17:25.31 | linuxxr | wheres the v12 |
| 17:25.50 | linuxxr | o nenermind |
| 17:26.00 | linuxxr | im installing it:) |
| 17:26.38 | linuxxr | can a Armdslack image be made? |
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| 17:27.18 | linuxxr | i would really thank someone for doing that |
| 17:27.41 | spydon | have anyone heard any rumours of how the porting of android is going? :) |
| 17:27.43 | linuxxr | i dont know how to make a .jffs2 |
| 17:28.11 | linuxxr | they have been working on Android |
| 17:28.33 | linuxxr | still moving along |
| 17:29.43 | beer__ | last time I tried andorid (around 1.5 beta) there was huge problem with sound qvality. I dont know if they have fixed it |
| 17:30.23 | linuxxr | PaulFertser said yesterday to try it as it has improved |
| 17:31.08 | beer__ | after what google has done to people who works on android I fill less compelling to try it again. |
| 17:31.23 | linuxxr | noticed a buzz in qtmoko? |
| 17:31.26 | linuxxr | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:31.46 | linuxxr | beer? |
| 17:32.05 | linuxxr | ic |
| 17:32.14 | PaulFertser | linuxxr: i never suggest to try android |
| 17:32.16 | linuxxr | what they do? |
| 17:32.39 | linuxxr | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:34.07 | PaulFertser | linuxxr: unless i was drunk and wanted to make a bad joke but i don't remember myself being drunk lately. |
| 17:34.18 | linuxxr | :) |
| 17:34.44 | linuxxr | debian only? |
| 17:35.38 | PaulFertser | linuxxr: not really, i've nothing against other free os's but only those that are developed in an open and free way. (qtopia wasn't like that and android is still not like that). |
| 17:36.00 | beer__ | linuxxr: last time I tried the gsm I could not connect to it. But that was long time ago (2-3 months and they have been working on it since then |
| 17:36.35 | beer__ | I have not notice any buzz at all (but I have also got the buzz fixed appliet to my phone |
| 17:37.28 | beer__ | and qtmoko is on debian atm (there was a fso but it seems they have stop developing it |
| 17:37.58 | *** join/#openmoko panicking (n=Michael@77.224.194.88) |
| 17:38.31 | PaulFertser | beer__: buzz fix is not possible in software ever. And buzz affects all the distros alike. |
| 17:38.39 | PaulFertser | s/alike/the same way/ |
| 17:39.16 | beer__ | <PaulFertser> I have the hardware fixed |
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| 17:40.00 | beer__ | in the beginning of the freerunners life there was also some problem with the echo thing but that was fixed in software |
| 17:42.27 | DocScrutinizer-8 | sighs |
| 17:43.41 | beer__ | DocScrutinizer-8: a problem? |
| 17:43.56 | DocScrutinizer-8 | nah, not really |
| 17:44.35 | DocScrutinizer-8 | just I admire PaulFertser's neverending patience |
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| 17:46.09 | beer__ | did not know that he is a bot made by gud in his image? |
| 17:47.31 | linuxxr | thank god for paul |
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| 17:50.49 | DocScrutinizer-8 | hmm lets see... |
| 17:50.53 | DocScrutinizer-8 | ~buzz |
| 17:50.54 | apt | well, buzz is Debian 1.1, released June 1996 (474 packages, 2.0 kernel, fully ELF, dpkg) |
| 17:51.05 | DocScrutinizer-8 | lol |
| 17:51.22 | DocScrutinizer-8 | ~buzzfix |
| 17:53.00 | cz_jc | hello, please anyone knows where E modules are located ? |
| 17:53.30 | cz_jc | I'm looking for efm_nav module but I can't find even efm. Modules in e settings contain only "filemanager" and "efm operations" |
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| 17:57.08 | cz_jc | aah disregard, I get it. I must get the E-MODULES-EXTRA from svn |
| 17:57.29 | DocScrutinizer | ~buzzfix is http://people.openmoko.org/joerg/GSM_EMI_noise/ and http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Buzz_Fix and http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/hardware/2008-August/000267.html ff. |
| 17:57.30 | apt | okay, DocScrutinizer |
| 17:58.46 | panicking | DocScrutinizer, are you working on another hardware |
| 17:58.47 | panicking | ? |
| 17:59.17 | PaulFertser | DocScrutinizer: it's because i don't do anything useful and sleep instead i have time to patiently lurk on irc. |
| 18:00.04 | DocScrutinizer | panicking: no. Why? Do you have a job for me? :-) |
| 18:00.46 | DocScrutinizer | panicking: that would be much appreciated actually |
| 18:01.13 | panicking | DocScrutinizer, I would like to collaborate with you because I don't have an hardware "department" :) |
| 18:01.43 | panicking | DocScrutinizer, I have a group of people, and we are freelance or Phd student |
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| 18:02.55 | DocScrutinizer-8 | hmm that doesn't sound exactly like a job that will buy me food or beer ;-P |
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| 18:03.45 | panicking | DocScrutinizer, yes I know but It's easy to find job if the group has a lot of smart people (this is not my case ofcourse :D) |
| 18:05.51 | DocScrutinizer-8 | hmm, my experience with the (former) bunch of smart people at OM are somewhat different |
| 18:07.47 | DocScrutinizer-8 | anyway, panicking - if you got an interesting task to offer... don't hesitate. I might find it interesting |
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| 18:24.51 | beer__ | when I tried to ssh to my freerunner (with qtmoko) it ask for at root pass word. Does someone know what the default password is? |
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| 18:24.57 | ndnihil | <enter> |
| 18:25.03 | *** join/#openmoko gcwilson (n=gcwilson@32.97.110.59) |
| 18:25.12 | ndnihil | oh, qtmoko |
| 18:25.44 | beer__ | with just enter I get a Permission denied (publickey,password). |
| 18:26.03 | *** join/#openmoko gcwilson (n=gcwilson@32.97.110.59) |
| 18:26.11 | ndnihil | tried "root" and "qtmoko"? |
| 18:26.14 | ndnihil | or better yet |
| 18:26.19 | ndnihil | the qtmoko documentation |
| 18:26.27 | ndnihil | where it probably mentions the default password? |
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| 18:27.21 | *** join/#openmoko gcwilson (n=gcwilson@32.97.110.59) |
| 18:27.21 | beer__ | I am looking at qtmoko.org but as normal it is hard to find the dokumentation that one need |
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| 18:28.26 | *** join/#openmoko gcwilson (n=gcwilson@32.97.110.59) |
| 18:28.34 | ndnihil | The root password is empty so set it for security reason especially when you open the ssh-daemon on t |
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| 18:29.13 | *** join/#openmoko gcwilson (n=gcwilson@32.97.110.59) |
| 18:29.14 | ndnihil | wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/QT_Moko |
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| 18:29.50 | beer__ | tanks |
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| 18:31.42 | panicking | DocScrutinizer, Can I send the presentation group |
| 18:31.49 | panicking | the same that I sent to Meizu |
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| 18:41.32 | panicking | larsc, Can I ask some questions about the video for-2.6.31 |
| 18:41.34 | panicking | ? |
| 18:41.48 | cz_jc | raster_, could I please bother you for a while longer ? |
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| 18:42.28 | cz_jc | raster_, I finally found efm_nav module in svn, I got its dir, ran autoconf and on compilation on fr, I get this: e_mod_main.c:57: error: 'e_gadcon_site_is_efm_toolbar' undeclared here (not in a function) |
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| 18:43.15 | *** join/#openmoko Velmont (i=odinho@knuth.ping.uio.no) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
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| 18:43.15 | *** join/#openmoko ozzloy (n=ozzloy@unaffiliated/ozzloy) |
| 18:43.15 | *** join/#openmoko Basheri (i=basher@hehz.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 18:43.15 | *** join/#openmoko CM (i=cm@shaka.acc.umu.se) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 18:43.20 | cz_jc | raster_, will getting that module really take me recompiling entire E or is there a shortcut to compile it? its a single .c file :/ |
| 18:45.20 | cz_jc | I get it ./src/bin/.svn/text-base/e_gadcon.c.svn-base:e_gadcon_site_is_efm_toolbar(E_Gadcon_Site site) |
| 18:45.25 | cz_jc | I just put in 'true' :) |
| 18:45.54 | *** join/#openmoko Schorhr (n=askmeple@82.113.121.24) |
| 18:50.35 | *** join/#openmoko yanu (n=yanu@d54C5F808.access.telenet.be) |
| 18:50.46 | larsc | panicking: just ask. don't ask to ask ;) |
| 18:51.00 | cz_jc | sweet ! works ! |
| 18:51.14 | cz_jc | raster_, you were right, its uber cool :) |
| 18:51.26 | cz_jc | raster_, I'll make sure e ebuild has use flag for those extra modules |
| 18:54.24 | beer__ | is there a easy way for me to connect my freerunner to the internet? |
| 18:55.38 | PaulFertser | beer__: except for studying network administration and then OM wiki, no ;) |
| 18:56.06 | beer__ | if you refer to http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/USB_Networking you are right |
| 18:56.48 | beer__ | I tried that last year withut any luck and did hope that someone has made it easyer |
| 18:57.10 | *** join/#openmoko amarsh04_ (n=amarsh04@ppp121-45-42-197.lns10.adl2.internode.on.net) |
| 18:57.24 | beer__ | the console has never been friendly to me |
| 18:57.52 | *** join/#openmoko ferluszt (n=ferluszt@vpn-144-214.vpn.uni-mannheim.de) |
| 18:58.34 | panicking | larsc, Ok I have seen that you removed the pan display |
| 18:58.57 | panicking | introduced by Sean McNeil |
| 18:59.04 | panicking | is there a particular reason? |
| 18:59.13 | PaulFertser | beer__: network adiminstration is not something one can learn in 15 min. |
| 18:59.53 | ndnihil | it isn't? |
| 18:59.55 | ndnihil | shit |
| 19:00.07 | ndnihil | quits his job and goes back to washing cars |
| 19:01.37 | larsc | panicking: if you want to support panning you have to reserve more memory for the framebuffer area. i wanted as much as possible for the offscreen area. |
| 19:01.46 | *** join/#openmoko LuYu (n=whatever@66.92.134.144) |
| 19:02.07 | larsc | panicking: if you need panning i suggest you make it configurable via a module parameter or so |
| 19:02.42 | beer__ | PaulFertser: I know. My bachelor was in network adiminstration. I was taking care of hosting fourms, webpages, and personla pages and wiki. While other in the group did other parts |
| 19:02.43 | panicking | or just extend the platform data, when you look at vres_xres |
| 19:03.05 | *** join/#openmoko vivijim (n=vivijim@unaffiliated/vivijim) |
| 19:04.17 | PaulFertser | beer__: then i'm quite impressed you have difficulties with providing internet to a host. |
| 19:04.18 | larsc | panicking: do you have a non gta02 device which has a glamo? |
| 19:04.40 | panicking | no :) I have only a gta02 |
| 19:04.59 | panicking | And I have one gta02 |
| 19:05.01 | panicking | gta03 |
| 19:05.05 | panicking | without display |
| 19:05.19 | DocScrutinizer-8 | beer__: shr; mokonnect; wifi; <select AP>; "apply" --> done :-D |
| 19:06.13 | panicking | PaulFertser, I think that somenthing is missing in the pcf50633 initialization |
| 19:06.13 | panicking | because we don't initialize the OCCWAKE |
| 19:06.13 | larsc | panicking: see. so platform_data gain you anything |
| 19:06.17 | beer__ | PaulFertser: as I have mention before: the console and me is not best friends. I have tried different ways but always failed. Once I have another fr user home and he sayed that it as supse to work and he could nto tell my who it did not |
| 19:06.24 | PaulFertser | panicking: let me see |
| 19:06.41 | panicking | OCCWAKE, we must remove the three extern |
| 19:06.54 | beer__ | DocScrutinizer-8: Hard to connect to a routh/switch when it does not have and access point |
| 19:06.55 | panicking | because one spike on that can switch on the device |
| 19:07.06 | DocScrutinizer-8 | beer__: shr-settings; connectivity; <edit GPRS settings>; "connect --> done ;-D |
| 19:07.08 | PaulFertser | beer__: i just can't understand how can one have network administration skills and not be comfortable with console. |
| 19:07.27 | PaulFertser | panicking: sounds reasonable, i need to check the datasheet. |
| 19:08.02 | panicking | PaulFertser, another thing. Do you know that is necessary to send the AT@POFF to the modem |
| 19:08.07 | panicking | before shutdown the system |
| 19:08.08 | panicking | ? |
| 19:08.36 | DocScrutinizer-8 | panicking: you bet we are |
| 19:08.36 | panicking | modem is not related to the power |
| 19:08.50 | SpeedEvil | modem is direclty connected to the battery |
| 19:09.09 | DocScrutinizer-8 | panicking: stop telling us trivia please |
| 19:09.16 | PaulFertser | panicking: EXTON[123] are pulled up to VB_SYS. Are you sure there can be spikes there? |
| 19:09.35 | PaulFertser | panicking: yes, AT@POFF is the only way to turn off the modem on gta01. |
| 19:09.58 | beer__ | PaulFertser: settings up apach and stuff does gran you little experiencs with routing and dns. and the console has so many option that it is diffecult to handle becous rarly show that you would like to know |
| 19:10.07 | panicking | but it is not the same for gta02 |
| 19:10.31 | panicking | PaulFertser, the driver is upstream |
| 19:10.42 | panicking | so the register setting must be add in the platoform data |
| 19:10.43 | panicking | to 0 |
| 19:10.47 | ndnihil | how does setting up apache have anything to do with routing? |
| 19:10.50 | panicking | and each driver must initialize |
| 19:10.59 | panicking | the correct wakeup source |
| 19:11.05 | panicking | what do you thing about |
| 19:11.06 | panicking | ? |
| 19:11.10 | ndnihil | add a default route if it's a new box, but that's it? |
| 19:12.01 | PaulFertser | panicking: last time we discussed it with Werner we agreed that it's most important for the bootloader to initialize board-specific stuff. Having it in the driver would be a nice addition but since syncing BL and the driver is cubersome he expressed an opinion to not do it in the driver at all. |
| 19:13.04 | PaulFertser | beer__: somehow i think that "network administartion" includes setting up routes and firewalls, not only managing apache. |
| 19:13.15 | *** join/#openmoko gunbritt (n=arfmarf@unaffiliated/gunbritt) |
| 19:13.20 | *** join/#openmoko rhaeder (n=rhaeder@dslb-088-076-088-127.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 19:13.27 | ndnihil | managing apache is system administration |
| 19:13.31 | ndnihil | !network |
| 19:13.40 | PaulFertser | Indeed |
| 19:13.42 | DocScrutinizer-8 | or simply: network-admin != web-admin |
| 19:14.53 | DocScrutinizer-8 | or forum-admin ;-P |
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| 19:15.57 | omoko | hallo all |
| 19:16.06 | omoko | i was looking on how to scale cpu on openmoko |
| 19:16.13 | omoko | i read something rask did |
| 19:16.14 | DocScrutinizer-8 | the netwok admins I met know SNMP and their Ciscos by heart |
| 19:16.34 | omoko | but i cant find anything documented .. is it kernel scaling or through cpufreq? |
| 19:16.54 | ndnihil | I don't have all the MIBs memorized, but I will only interact with my cisco gear by way of cli |
| 19:16.59 | ndnihil | I dislike their guis |
| 19:17.29 | *** join/#openmoko agg1n (n=jan@87.245.35.241) |
| 19:17.39 | DocScrutinizer-8 | omoko: cpufreq |
| 19:17.58 | beer__ | PaulFertser: Completly agree with you on that point. And there is huge different in duing that youself and talking/reading about it. Routing was done by one person, and firewall by another, xen migration by another and linux-windows integration by yet anoher and backup/samba by the last person. So I have some theory about it but no pracical expiriencs |
| 19:18.18 | cz_jc | haha cisco droid world sucks |
| 19:18.38 | cz_jc | unfortunately we have to cope with cisco proprietary 'universal' networking classes :/ |
| 19:18.48 | ndnihil | even has two pix(en?) of his very own :) |
| 19:18.49 | cz_jc | *at school |
| 19:18.56 | beer__ | and I do not feel for debug the wiki so I can get internet on my freerunner. It is not that important |
| 19:19.00 | *** join/#openmoko jc1 (n=jc@122-116-235-183.HINET-IP.hinet.net) |
| 19:19.04 | cz_jc | I'll smash the nearest cisco router I see |
| 19:19.20 | ndnihil | cz: lucent fan? |
| 19:19.29 | omoko | DocScrutinizer-8: how do i install it on openmoko? there is no package available for experimental |
| 19:19.41 | ndnihil | or whoever is popular these days |
| 19:19.46 | cz_jc | ndnihil, lucent? wha? our network runs on linux and mikrotik boxen :D |
| 19:20.00 | DocScrutinizer-8 | omoko: no expert here |
| 19:20.02 | ndnihil | why do you dislike cisco so? |
| 19:20.07 | cz_jc | I hate mikrotik too because its ciscoized linux + gui without proprietary driver sources released |
| 19:20.18 | cz_jc | ndnihil, I don't dislike the routers/switches themselves |
| 19:20.27 | cz_jc | you configure them, they work, you don't ever touch them again |
| 19:20.32 | cz_jc | but I HATE theyr classes |
| 19:20.38 | cz_jc | they act like 'networking is us' |
| 19:21.02 | cz_jc | and in our country, standard 'nonproprietary' data networking classes are all about cisco |
| 19:21.03 | DocScrutinizer-8 | all your base are belong to us |
| 19:21.08 | ndnihil | eh, it's just as phony at cisco as it is training with any other company |
| 19:21.14 | cz_jc | DocScrutinizer-8, exactly |
| 19:21.26 | *** join/#openmoko max_posedon (n=max_pose@87.252.243.128) |
| 19:21.29 | cz_jc | ndnihil, no its official high school study material |
| 19:21.37 | ndnihil | if you want brainwashed, try old citrix classes |
| 19:21.49 | cz_jc | ndnihil, haha I see they are not the first to do it |
| 19:21.52 | ndnihil | they're fanatic like walmart employees |
| 19:22.21 | ndnihil | the sun microsystems courses weren't quite as bad, but there was still that uppity "we rule" atmosphere |
| 19:22.56 | cz_jc | I guess its vendor lockin everywhere where companies get to write school curriculums |
| 19:23.19 | ndnihil | my classes were well after "school" years |
| 19:24.25 | ndnihil | when I was in high school there was one very small computer lab where a handful of geeks would hang out |
| 19:24.42 | ndnihil | and the cirriculum was -very- basic |
| 19:24.48 | ndnihil | half of us could have taught the class |
| 19:24.53 | ndnihil | easily |
| 19:25.06 | DocScrutinizer-8 | sucked |
| 19:25.29 | cz_jc | ndnihil, I wish, we have stupid robot clubs |
| 19:25.36 | ndnihil | the 386 was hot shit at the time |
| 19:25.41 | ndnihil | I wish I had robotics clubs |
| 19:25.44 | DocScrutinizer-8 | I preferred to pimp my pocket calculator with some 74xx logic ;-) |
| 19:25.45 | ndnihil | when I was in school |
| 19:26.08 | cz_jc | where they play with lego NXT, that is putting graphical commands next to each other and hoping it follows a black line |
| 19:26.14 | *** join/#openmoko retracile (n=eli@76-204-213-211.lightspeed.allntx.sbcglobal.net) |
| 19:26.41 | cz_jc | the level is really very low |
| 19:26.43 | DocScrutinizer-8 | lol |
| 19:26.49 | cz_jc | we don't have many real geeks at school |
| 19:26.51 | DocScrutinizer-8 | abyssmal |
| 19:27.13 | cz_jc | you know, a one high school thesis involved a powerpoint presentation about how to make an effective presentation |
| 19:27.24 | ndnihil | oh dear |
| 19:27.29 | cz_jc | they get a diploma for that crap |
| 19:27.41 | *** join/#openmoko pleemans (n=toi@d54C2A96D.access.telenet.be) |
| 19:28.32 | DocScrutinizer-8 | cz_jc: that sounds like cz actually :-P |
| 19:28.56 | cz_jc | DocScrutinizer-8, thats a short for the language ^^ |
| 19:29.06 | panicking | DocScrutinizer, Can I contact to the openmoko mail. Right? |
| 19:29.50 | DocScrutinizer-8 | cz_jc: classic chinese I guess |
| 19:30.44 | cz_jc | DocScrutinizer-8, doesn't matter anyway.. yes the level is low here |
| 19:30.45 | cz_jc | teenagers get drunk and laid all the time, they barely have any interests |
| 19:32.11 | DocScrutinizer-8 | well I'm fairly grown out of all that. But have been told that's not much different all over the world :-D |
| 19:32.48 | DocScrutinizer-8 | cz_jc: ask PaulFertser |
| 19:33.06 | cz_jc | DocScrutinizer-8, I guess if it were better elsewhere, FR sales would be higher XD |
| 19:33.14 | cz_jc | DocScrutinizer-8, about what? ;P |
| 19:33.19 | PaulFertser | cz_jc: teenagers |
| 19:33.31 | PaulFertser | Though i'm not one of those anymore unfortunately :( |
| 19:33.34 | cz_jc | PaulFertser, I hereby ask you about teenagers XD |
| 19:34.10 | cz_jc | the age is good.. true.. looot of time for slacking off... |
| 19:34.17 | DocScrutinizer-8 | PaulFertser can tell about russian students ;-) |
| 19:34.22 | linuxxr | HAY |
| 19:34.29 | cz_jc | hehe go on :) |
| 19:35.12 | PaulFertser | cz_jc: i'm not really that competent to tell you about our teenagers because first of all i live in moscow (and some say it's very different from russia :) ) and second my reality is somewhat distorted to suit my views (or at least so i'm told). |
| 19:35.53 | DocScrutinizer-8 | PaulFertser: lol |
| 19:36.15 | cz_jc | PaulFertser, moscow is the Russia in russia, afaik XD |
| 19:36.37 | PaulFertser | cz_jc: i can tell you that at least half of the students coming to me are not really stupid. They do care about interesting things, not only sex&drugs&clubs (modern substitute for rock'n'roll). |
| 19:36.38 | max_posedon | 90% of belarussian students are stupid |
| 19:36.55 | cz_jc | PaulFertser, really ? thats a change |
| 19:37.05 | cz_jc | max_posedon, oh hi :) |
| 19:37.22 | cz_jc | 90% of Czech students are stupid also |
| 19:37.24 | cz_jc | me included.. |
| 19:37.28 | max_posedon | and after 5 years of education programming can work only as monkeys |
| 19:37.34 | cz_jc | I slack off, therefore have bad grades |
| 19:37.40 | cz_jc | but I get to compile E on my phone ^^ |
| 19:38.06 | max_posedon | Hi) |
| 19:38.15 | cz_jc | max_posedon, here, not even that. they teach us C++ Builder.. in the better case.. someone learns pascal |
| 19:38.30 | PaulFertser | cz_jc: i think among that not stupid half probably one quarter will do something at least remotely interesting in their lives. |
| 19:38.33 | cz_jc | so you come out - youre unusable |
| 19:39.28 | cz_jc | PaulFertser, lets hope so.. for the rest, theres the lego NXT and arduino to make them feel geeky |
| 19:40.11 | *** join/#openmoko playya (n=playya@unaffiliated/playya) |
| 19:40.19 | PaulFertser | cz_jc: well, here it depends a lot. I think at least 5 or more of my school classmates (out of 30) are now good people. Haven't meet all of them for too long to really judge but i've met some of them. |
| 19:40.30 | max_posedon | pascal delphi builder is normal here |
| 19:40.46 | cz_jc | PaulFertser, theyre basically good people.. but without interests |
| 19:40.51 | PaulFertser | cz_jc: and in fact education and smartness is not really important. It doesn't make one a good man. |
| 19:41.11 | cz_jc | max_posedon, yeah, here too.. |
| 19:41.18 | cz_jc | forgot delphi |
| 19:41.21 | *** join/#openmoko der-lehmann (n=stefan@188-192-133-169-dynip.superkabel.de) |
| 19:41.23 | PaulFertser | cz_jc: no, good people do have interests. Some do snowboarding, others play football, etc etc. Every good man finds a good hobby. |
| 19:41.36 | *** join/#openmoko tschaka (n=tschaka@p5B0E9B01.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 19:41.58 | cz_jc | PaulFertser, you don't have to do any of that, the point is you don't go around ruining lives of others |
| 19:43.26 | PaulFertser | cz_jc: probably i'm too optimistic since i need to be motivated to continue "teaching", i'm not sure. |
| 19:43.51 | cz_jc | PaulFertser, you teach ? |
| 19:43.52 | omoko | how can i find an openmoko kernel branch from a file included in it? I found some code, but i dont know what it refers to |
| 19:43.53 | PaulFertser | cz_jc: those guys and girls i talk with are not stupid but i guess they don't spend enough time to learn. |
| 19:44.04 | PaulFertser | cz_jc: sort of. Trying to. |
| 19:44.14 | cz_jc | PaulFertser, oh.. I wish you nerves of steel then |
| 19:46.19 | DocScrutinizer | PaulFertser has sth much better: a mission |
| 19:46.31 | DocScrutinizer | ;-) |
| 19:46.45 | cz_jc | what mission ? :D |
| 19:46.50 | cz_jc | to convert teenagers to geeks? :D |
| 19:47.31 | *** join/#openmoko hanez (n=hanez@hanez.org) |
| 19:48.01 | PaulFertser | cz_jc: do not have those unfortunately. But i tell you fo' real that some of my students are indeed nice folks. I organised a tour to our politechnical museum, i talk with them on jabber in the evenings, i exchange good literature books with them, went inline skating with one girl several times etc etc. |
| 19:48.28 | PaulFertser | I _hope_ that they're good. And i prefer to assume that by default btw. |
| 19:49.25 | cz_jc | sounds abnormally nice :) |
| 19:49.31 | DocScrutinizer | PaulFertser: I wonder if they tend to love you or to hate you, usually. For sure you won't go unnoticed :-) |
| 19:49.34 | cz_jc | PaulFertser, is that a high school ? |
| 19:49.35 | PaulFertser | cz_jc: hehe, distorted reality, i warned you |
| 19:50.18 | PaulFertser | cz_jc: it's moscow technological state university, they get magister and then master (or engineer) degree after graduating. |
| 19:50.26 | DocScrutinizer | PaulFertser: ...and probably that's just as good as it gets |
| 19:51.28 | DocScrutinizer | the nicest thing you can say about someone: he won't go unnoticed ;-D |
| 19:52.08 | PaulFertser | DocScrutinizer: i now started to receive complains that i "do not teach". Well, those were coming from less than bright students who are not motivated at all. Also you probably can't imagine the full picture: here we have one group of ~20 persons who'll most probably graduate no matter what because our defense ministry pays and cares for them. |
| 19:52.19 | PaulFertser | DocScrutinizer: (nicest thing) Oh, thanks a lot! :D |
| 19:52.43 | *** join/#openmoko max_posedon (n=max_pose@80.249.93.34) |
| 19:52.58 | DocScrutinizer | PaulFertser: (full pic) you mentioned that recently |
| 19:53.16 | PaulFertser | I tend to tell the same stories many times, sorry for that |
| 19:53.22 | DocScrutinizer | sth like "buying graduates" |
| 19:53.25 | cz_jc | PaulFertser, ah thats a whole different level then, I guess people are more mature at that age |
| 19:53.33 | max_posedon | so, about education in Belarus |
| 19:53.41 | max_posedon | Belarus is kinda India |
| 19:53.58 | max_posedon | its extremelly problematic find not outsourcing job |
| 19:54.10 | PaulFertser | cz_jc: 18 years is not really mature but well, possibly so. |
| 19:54.11 | max_posedon | so, almost all dev companies are .. |
| 19:54.22 | max_posedon | bodyshops for EU / US customers |
| 19:54.24 | cz_jc | PaulFertser, university ? in 18 years ? |
| 19:54.40 | cz_jc | I'm 19 and I'm stuck at high school :D |
| 19:54.47 | PaulFertser | max_posedon: oh, btw, i've met nice folks who do outsourcing development of hardware/software-embedded-linux from Minsk recently. |
| 19:55.08 | PaulFertser | cz_jc: yep. We go to school at 7, then spend there 10-11 years. |
| 19:55.08 | DocScrutinizer | PaulFertser: no need for excuses. Who wants to waste memory for how often and to whom a story has been told. If it's a good story it doesn't care. If it's bad, just don't tell it at all (you usually don't tell bad stories) |
| 19:55.08 | max_posedon | let me guess |
| 19:55.10 | max_posedon | Promwad?) |
| 19:55.21 | PaulFertser | max_posedon: exactly |
| 19:56.16 | DocScrutinizer | PaulFertser: I don't even waste storage on source links usually |
| 19:56.16 | max_posedon | yes, this guys only one good linux embedded company in Belarus |
| 19:57.24 | max_posedon | so, main problem of education in belarus, that companies not interested in programmers |
| 19:57.32 | PaulFertser | cz_jc: btw, i've asked my best friend (we're classmates at school but now he is geodesy worker and earns 2-3 times more i could earn if i worked fulltime at my engineering job) and he told me almost all his current buddies do not know english even a little bit. |
| 19:57.52 | PaulFertser | cz_jc: my brother told me the same. Probably it says something about culture level. |
| 19:57.55 | max_posedon | we even have a joke, "If you didn't pass interview in M'c donalds, go to Epam!" |
| 19:58.33 | cz_jc | PaulFertser, wow |
| 19:58.59 | PaulFertser | cz_jc: but on the other hand it's fact that good literature books are bought (and read) so probably not everything is so sorrow. |
| 19:59.06 | cz_jc | PaulFertser, well.. even though we have english as a subject, I doubt many people would be able to spit out a sane sentence from our class |
| 19:59.34 | DocScrutinizer | PaulFertser: (source links) ...which results in my assumption it's been you who told that about buying graduates is more a guess than a fact ;-P |
| 19:59.41 | cz_jc | PaulFertser, people who like technical stuff get theyr way eventually :) I learned nothing of things I like at school |
| 19:59.50 | cz_jc | I started with microcontrollers when I was like 7 =) |
| 20:00.14 | cz_jc | crappy PIC microcontrollers with eeproms for program memory back then.. hehe fun stuff |
| 20:00.34 | PaulFertser | cz_jc: same here. Everybody learns some foreign language at school (english mostly) but only about 5 out of 30 could read technical documentation required for my class. |
| 20:00.52 | cz_jc | PaulFertser, yeah.. exactly.. |
| 20:01.23 | PaulFertser | DocScrutinizer: yes, but that's about personal bribing matter. And that "military" students group is "fully-organised ministry-established" bribing basically. |
| 20:01.36 | DocScrutinizer | hehe, I missed learning english conversation at school as I always read english docs during classes |
| 20:02.27 | PaulFertser | cz_jc: probably now (after one year) it's a bit better because i tell them about necessety to understand docs every other day, but i'm not sure. And still the main problem is their motivation. |
| 20:03.23 | DocScrutinizer | (learning english) so my best rating was for a translation of an english text to german XD |
| 20:03.50 | DocScrutinizer | while for creating english text I usually was quite poor |
| 20:04.13 | cz_jc | I won several regional competitions in english language XD |
| 20:04.15 | DocScrutinizer | (best rating == best of class) |
| 20:04.21 | PaulFertser | DocScrutinizer: hehe, probably it was quite surprising for you teachers :) |
| 20:04.24 | cz_jc | and look how crappy I write |
| 20:04.57 | *** join/#openmoko m0nt0 (n=monto@151.57.149.62) |
| 20:05.31 | PaulFertser | cz_jc: do not reread your messages. At least rereading mine usually makes me feel worse ;) |
| 20:05.44 | cz_jc | PaulFertser, me too XD |
| 20:05.54 | DocScrutinizer | hehehe |
| 20:06.00 | DocScrutinizer | common effect |
| 20:06.06 | cz_jc | PaulFertser, oh whatever, we understand each other, thats what matters XD |
| 20:06.09 | cz_jc | grammar nazis go to hell XD |
| 20:06.35 | cz_jc | PaulFertser, I couldn't speak russian even after some years of soviet occupation.. even my parents can't nowadays XD |
| 20:06.45 | cz_jc | and they had it in school every day back in their age |
| 20:07.00 | DocScrutinizer | same with French here |
| 20:07.29 | DocScrutinizer | that roman language and my speech processor are incompatible |
| 20:07.50 | cz_jc | hehe |
| 20:08.55 | spydon | have anyone heard any rumours of how the porting of android is going? :) |
| 20:08.57 | PaulFertser | cz_jc: speaking in particular and communicating in general is essentially harder comparing to understanding technical manuals (in english). But for whatever reason either (some of) my students do not want to beleive in it or do not want to practice at least a little bit. They're too afraid of (imaginary) complexity. |
| 20:09.50 | SpeedEvil | PaulFertser: you're teaching ee? |
| 20:10.07 | cz_jc | PaulFertser, I can read datasheets but not for example some complex scientific theses |
| 20:11.28 | DocScrutinizer-8 | cz_jc: well I don't want to read Einsteins general relativity theory in English as well |
| 20:11.49 | max_posedon | (I don't want even in russian) |
| 20:11.50 | PaulFertser | SpeedEvil: not really, just some introductory course of programming (in my particular case it's C because we're called "engineering of electronic devices". |
| 20:12.00 | DocScrutinizer-8 | but I usually prefer English manpages to the German version |
| 20:12.12 | cz_jc | DocScrutinizer-8, haha thats a brain shriking material |
| 20:12.18 | cz_jc | *shrinking |
| 20:12.25 | SpeedEvil | Ah |
| 20:13.38 | DocScrutinizer-8 | cz_jc: what? rel.theory or manpages? |
| 20:14.00 | cz_jc | DocScrutinizer-8, rel theory :D |
| 20:15.22 | PaulFertser | cz_jc: (rel theory) hm, have never read the source. I'd still bet it's nothing comparing with "string theories" and other stuff that requires a degree in maths to understand :) |
| 20:15.26 | DocScrutinizer-8 | well, the special one is "easy" ;-) the general one is kinda... mindboggling |
| 20:15.57 | cz_jc | fortunately we have dumbed down versions in our physics textbooks ^^ |
| 20:16.00 | cz_jc | interesting stuff =) |
| 20:16.04 | DocScrutinizer-8 | PaulFertser: lol, you bet |
| 20:16.23 | *** join/#openmoko raron (n=kvirc@91.82.167.49.pool.invitel.hu) |
| 20:17.38 | PaulFertser | would be happy to teach or to be tought a course based on "David A. Patterson, John L. Hennesy Computer Organization and Design. The Hardware/Software Interface" book |
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| 20:18.43 | DocScrutinizer-8 | hmm, sounds tasty |
| 20:18.48 | DocScrutinizer-8 | :-) |
| 20:19.07 | DocScrutinizer-8 | just my wavelength |
| 20:21.33 | PaulFertser | DocScrutinizer-8: you can download it from my website (though it would take long, ~30MB with 50kb/s upload speed). |
| 20:22.01 | DocScrutinizer-8 | doesn't matter. gimmegimmegimme ;-P |
| 20:22.02 | SpeedEvil | sighs at his sucky DSL. |
| 20:22.36 | *** join/#openmoko SpeedEvil (n=user@tor/regular/SpeedEvil) |
| 20:22.48 | PaulFertser | DocScrutinizer-8: (50M in fact) http://paulfertser.is-a-geek.org/Computer.Organization.and.Design.The.Hardware.Software.Interface.3rd.Ed.2004.pdf |
| 20:23.07 | DocScrutinizer-8 | wtf, speedevil drops by, spits a comment, and vanishes same second? |
| 20:23.10 | PaulFertser | There's also a CD with additional stuff but i've not downloaded it. |
| 20:24.32 | SpeedEvil | I have a DSL connection that occasionally retrains down to 300kbit/sec. It does this between 22;00 and 02:00 or so. |
| 20:24.40 | SpeedEvil | If I don't take it down manually and go onto my alternate link, it will then stay at 300 kbit/sec for a week. |
| 20:25.20 | PaulFertser | I was searching for a book that will explain some sane assembler in clean and clear way but all i found was mostly x86 stuff. And suddenly i saw this book which has a brilliant Chapter 2 explaining MIPS in a really consistent, precise and interesting way. |
| 20:25.58 | cz_jc | PaulFertser, I'll very strongly recommend playing with freerunner |
| 20:26.01 | PaulFertser | Alas this book was never translated to russian and hence none of my students tried to read it. |
| 20:26.13 | cz_jc | PaulFertser, http://prostor.hopto.org/~jc/om-asm.tar.bz2 |
| 20:26.24 | cz_jc | PaulFertser, with this, you can run code on the arm directly |
| 20:26.44 | DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: for some reason tabexpand didn't work for your nick on N810 |
| 20:26.47 | cz_jc | PaulFertser, you download the raw image into ram via dfu and then say go 0xadress (don't remember the address now, its in dfu -l) |
| 20:27.02 | cz_jc | PaulFertser, if you get the samsung datasheet, you can really get into programming ARM micros :) |
| 20:28.01 | cz_jc | PaulFertser, FR is a nice platform, you have a framebuffer, huge flash and huge RAM to play with easily :) |
| 20:28.17 | PaulFertser | cz_jc: i have Cortex-M3-based stm32 primer2 here. But unfortunately not enough motivation to play (also i'd need to port OpenOCD ad hoc SWD support to use rlink proprietary (already reversed) programmer). |
| 20:28.20 | cz_jc | PaulFertser, the link I gave you draws image on the screen |
| 20:28.40 | SpeedEvil | cz_jc: framebuffer - with insane hoops to jump through |
| 20:28.49 | cz_jc | PaulFertser, aah.. i don't like those too much, its a different thing - harvard architecture |
| 20:28.58 | cz_jc | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:29.00 | PaulFertser | cz_jc: i wished i had enough motivation to fix kernel bugs i know and can do something about first :( |
| 20:29.15 | PaulFertser | cz_jc: Cortex-M3 is arm. |
| 20:29.31 | cz_jc | PaulFertser, its that microcontroller version of arm core, isn't it ? |
| 20:29.36 | PaulFertser | cz_jc: it is |
| 20:29.38 | cz_jc | the harvard one |
| 20:29.47 | cz_jc | PaulFertser, that means not exactly a normal ARM |
| 20:29.50 | SpeedEvil | It's debatably harvard |
| 20:30.05 | cz_jc | SpeedEvil, how come ? |
| 20:30.08 | SpeedEvil | you can run programs from RAM too, it's just slower |
| 20:30.26 | cz_jc | SpeedEvil, can you remap memory on it ? |
| 20:30.33 | SpeedEvil | There are versions with MMU |
| 20:30.38 | SpeedEvil | the cheapest ones do not have MMU |
| 20:30.48 | cz_jc | sounds nicer than I first heard |
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| 20:35.34 | PaulFertser | DocScrutinizer: The previous was a wrong link, here's the correct http://paulfertser.is-a-geek.org:777/Computer.Organization.and.Design.The.Hardware.Software.Interface.3rd.Ed.2004.pdf |
| 20:36.06 | DocScrutinizer | PaulFertser: I almost have the whole download ;-) |
| 20:36.23 | PaulFertser | DocScrutinizer: whatever works for you :) |
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| 20:47.42 | DocScrutinizer | ~log |
| 20:47.42 | apt | well, log is http://logs.nslu2-linux.org/livelogs/openmoko-cdevel/ for #openmoko-cdevel only. Maybe you meant "~logs" ? |
| 20:52.56 | PaulFertser | cz_jc: well, maybe i'm just lucky but i know several students from other towns that are studying at our university and they're not bad too. Their stories about live in that towns do not make me think everything is lost. So i have hope. |
| 20:55.59 | DocScrutinizer-8 | !logs |
| 20:56.00 | cdbot2 | Channel logs for #openmoko are archived at: |
| 20:56.01 | cdbot2 | http://hentges.net/tmp/logs/irc/%23openmoko |
| 20:56.02 | cdbot2 | Live-logs are available at |
| 20:56.03 | cdbot2 | http://hentges.net/tmp/logs/irc/livelogs/%23openmoko.livelog |
| 20:56.05 | cdbot2 | See ?? help-logs for usage instructions |
| 20:56.24 | cz_jc | I see I make fool of myself on logs XD |
| 20:56.40 | cz_jc | PaulFertser, I bet its a different thing on university :) |
| 20:56.56 | cz_jc | PaulFertser, I'm kinda hoping we'll have some nice geek hangout on university here too when I get there |
| 20:59.47 | PaulFertser | cz_jc: yes, nobody at my school was interested as much in programming as was i (probably except for two military guys who worked there as guards and wrote a desktop indexing/search system in their free time). :D |
| 21:01.14 | cz_jc | PaulFertser, thats some cool security ! |
| 21:03.21 | PaulFertser | cz_jc: they even gave me a ticket to visit some cool closed military IT-related exhibition, i had a hard time convincing guys at entrance i should be allowed to enter (as i was probably <14 even). |
| 21:03.59 | cz_jc | PaulFertser, nice guys :) |
| 21:04.22 | DocScrutinizer-8 | lol |
| 21:05.48 | DocScrutinizer-8 | PaulFertser: at Nuernberg we got "Spielwarenmesse" the worlds biggest toy exhibition. That sounds rather familiar to me ;-) |
| 21:06.47 | PaulFertser | DocScrutinizer-8: i visited toy museum on my last day at Nuernberg. It was really interesting and entertaining. |
| 21:06.50 | DocScrutinizer-8 | as you can figure kids aren't usually allowed to enter there |
| 21:07.21 | PaulFertser | I saw plenty of kids there. And even some special playroom (on the upper floor). |
| 21:07.26 | DocScrutinizer-8 | yeah, but Messe is quite some different stuff |
| 21:08.01 | DocScrutinizer-8 | it's each year in February for 6 days, roundabout |
| 21:08.48 | PaulFertser | Oh, i see. |
| 21:09.58 | cz_jc | PaulFertser, btw about those kernel bugs, I'd love to get acquainted with linux sources |
| 21:10.14 | cz_jc | PaulFertser, maybe if you told me what is wrong I could try fixing something when I'm bored at school? :) |
| 21:10.50 | PaulFertser | cz_jc: https://docs.openmoko.org/trac/query?status=accepted&status=assigned&status=in_testing&status=new&status=reopened&component=System+Software&order=priority&col=id&col=summary&col=status&col=type&col=priority&col=milestone&col=component |
| 21:10.54 | PaulFertser | :) |
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| 21:11.25 | cz_jc | ok ^^ |
| 21:11.38 | cz_jc | for now I have to sleep. farewell, hackers ;) |
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| 22:02.18 | Slaxxer | Greed is everywhere |
| 22:05.38 | DocScrutinizer-8 | nonsense! Just give the whole stuff to ME |
| 22:07.15 | Slaxxer | :) |
| 22:07.28 | Slaxxer | any new shr-u images? |
| 22:07.37 | Slaxxer | if not why? |
| 22:07.56 | Slaxxer | out of the office? |
| 22:08.17 | Slaxxer | working on the core hardware maybe!!! |
| 22:08.25 | max_posedon | because they working on xorg stuff |
| 22:08.37 | max_posedon | you can try `unreleased non-working` image |
| 22:08.46 | Slaxxer | naaa |
| 22:09.02 | Slaxxer | QTmoko for now |
| 22:09.59 | DocScrutinizer-8 | yeah, xorg. The new excuse for not coming up with a testing image |
| 22:10.00 | Slaxxer | i noticed 2009 has daily unstable inages still |
| 22:10.12 | Slaxxer | ic |
| 22:10.34 | Slaxxer | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:10.52 | Slaxxer | as unstable is |
| 22:13.21 | DocScrutinizer-8 | nah, nottin bad with rollin release. If only opkg upgrade wouldn't fubar tings 90% of the time |
| 22:13.49 | Slaxxer | why hasnt that been fixed? |
| 22:15.44 | DocScrutinizer-8 | it's fxed. 10% of the times you try |
| 22:17.36 | Heinervdm | DocScrutinizer-8: we need an additional step: shr-experimental :) |
| 22:17.59 | Heinervdm | or rolling release for shr-testing as it was planed |
| 22:19.22 | Heinervdm | I suggest du release the new Xorg image as testing as soon as it's working |
| 22:20.07 | Heinervdm | and then we need a maintainer for shr-testing, who will adapt working packages from unstable to testing |
| 22:20.37 | Heinervdm | aber 1 week without bug reports for a package it moves to testing |
| 22:20.40 | DocScrutinizer-8 | that's been the idea since 6 weeks now |
| 22:20.55 | *** join/#openmoko SpeedEvil1 (n=user@tor/regular/SpeedEvil) |
| 22:21.22 | Heinervdm | yes, but there is no one who really cares about shr-testing... |
| 22:25.00 | DocScrutinizer-8 | shr-wtf |
| 22:25.17 | DocScrutinizer-8 | waiting-to-fix image |
| 22:26.23 | DocScrutinizer-8 | or was that "wath the fools"? ;-P |
| 22:26.34 | DocScrutinizer-8 | watch even |
| 22:29.01 | Slaxxer | hackable1 now:) |
| 22:29.50 | Slaxxer | whats wrong with just "SHR" |
| 22:30.08 | Slaxxer | simpler |
| 22:30.22 | Slaxxer | less stuff to deal with |
| 22:30.45 | Slaxxer | KISS |
| 22:31.08 | Slaxxer | build me a slackware install PLEASE |
| 22:33.23 | SpeedEvil | http://matt.west.co.tt/spectrum/jsspeccy/ - javascript - as it should never, ever be used :) |
| 22:37.35 | amarsh04 | I've seen javascript used to make it impossible to copy and paste text from articles, and have seen the same done to text (not scanned) pdfs |
| 22:38.30 | SpeedEvil | This is much more insane. |
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| 22:56.49 | Slaxxer | hackable1 has a pic of "Chuck" as a boot splash |
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| 23:07.57 | Slaxxer | h1 booted up but i get no phone |
| 23:08.09 | Slaxxer | registering |
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| 23:44.36 | thegreen4me | any idea when the next release of shr testing will be out? |
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| 23:52.12 | max_posedon | thegreen4me, not in 2 nearest month |