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| 01:21.50 | CIA-44 | freesmartphone.org: 03Frederik.Sdun 07cornucopia * r4e671d9a3a2a 10/fsousaged/src/plugins/controller/resource.vala: Fix rapid emmiting of ResoueceChange. Thanks to agg1n1 |
| 01:21.50 | CIA-44 | freesmartphone.org: 03Frederik.Sdun 07cornucopia * r1f16749c17db 10/fsousaged/src/plugins/controller/Makefile.am: Change file order to avoid segfault, Thanks to agg1n |
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| 02:50.29 | noone | hy I have a proble |
| 02:50.49 | noone | installed debian on the moko without the script |
| 02:51.00 | noone | and usbnet seems to not work |
| 02:51.04 | noone | oh hallo everyone |
| 02:52.04 | noone | I added usnet and usb_ether in the /et/modules |
| 02:52.21 | noone | I configured the interface but usb0 no such interface |
| 02:52.25 | noone | I am lost |
| 02:53.01 | noone | and can't talk to the installed debian during running |
| 02:53.06 | noone | so I can't analyze |
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| 05:05.51 | PaulFertser | noone: what exactly is your problem? |
| 05:07.00 | PaulFertser | slaxxer: (qi) ? |
| 05:08.21 | PaulFertser | DocScrutinizer-8: i'd say u-boot for gta02 is actually deprecated because it's fork that's 2 years old. |
| 05:09.01 | PaulFertser | DocScrutinizer-8: someone should first port the latest u-boot to gta02, then claim it's a good alternative to Qi, not the other way round imho. |
| 05:10.00 | PaulFertser | DocScrutinizer-8: and at least Qi's code can be easily understood by anybody in a matter of hour. Unlike u-boot's. I think that's advantageous enough. |
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| 09:24.28 | panicking | PaulFertser, ok I sent the patch of the mmc but I don't understand where I can commit it |
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| 09:28.06 | PaulFertser | panicking: glamo mmc? Can you please explain what are the advantages comparing to larsc's? |
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| 09:28.59 | Fox_Muldr | hi |
| 09:29.30 | PaulFertser | panicking: i don't know which branch is the most appropriate, sorry :-/ |
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| 09:32.15 | panicking | Using the scatter list kmap of single page doesn't panic on memcpy |
| 09:32.25 | panicking | because the start and the next |
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| 09:32.30 | panicking | map the page |
| 09:32.36 | panicking | PaulFertser, is it ok |
| 09:32.37 | panicking | ? |
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| 09:38.03 | PaulFertser | panicking: tbh, no idea |
| 09:38.32 | panicking | BTW, having a tree can help the develop phase. |
| 09:38.41 | PaulFertser | panicking: _i_ know that |
| 09:39.01 | PaulFertser | panicking: i hoped for larsc to implement his proposal right after .31 is out and use what he prepared. |
| 09:39.10 | PaulFertser | panicking: and he's still going to do that, afaik |
| 09:39.24 | PaulFertser | panicking: and yes, his proposal was about having decent trees. |
| 09:39.45 | panicking | Ok, but if there is a tree to apply the pathces in the openmoko repository |
| 09:39.49 | panicking | we can discuss on them |
| 09:39.58 | panicking | and over new file |
| 09:40.00 | PaulFertser | panicking: what do you want from me? I'm feeling uneasy about everything :-/ |
| 09:40.35 | PaulFertser | panicking: want me to push vanilla .31 to a separate branch at OM repo? |
| 09:41.11 | panicking | yes, and create a branch like openmoko-devel |
| 09:41.22 | panicking | I can do that I think |
| 09:41.29 | panicking | but I want to discuss before |
| 09:41.56 | panicking | So larsc can send pathces above this branch |
| 09:42.05 | panicking | and all the people can take a look, recompile |
| 09:42.08 | panicking | and verify |
| 09:43.18 | panicking | Basically I have a running tree |
| 09:43.29 | panicking | 2.6.31 |
| 09:43.34 | panicking | booting |
| 09:43.40 | PaulFertser | panicking: i think we should just push upstream master there named linus-master |
| 09:44.09 | PaulFertser | panicking: then branch from v2.6.31.1 (or whatever) tag to om-2.6.31 |
| 09:44.34 | panicking | perfect |
| 09:44.36 | PaulFertser | panicking: then branch from it and make at least glamo and pcf branches. |
| 09:44.50 | PaulFertser | panicking: add respective patches there. |
| 09:44.56 | panicking | Ok, agree |
| 09:45.11 | PaulFertser | panicking: also a separate branch for various small fixes going upstream |
| 09:45.34 | PaulFertser | panicking: check booting, merge everything back to om-2.6.31. |
| 09:45.59 | panicking | I will prefer openmoko-devel |
| 09:46.02 | panicking | and tag version |
| 09:46.02 | PaulFertser | panicking: that's basically what larsc proposed. Since it was his idea, his thoughts and his work i hope he's going to do that himself. |
| 09:46.03 | panicking | on it |
| 09:46.07 | panicking | om-2.6.31 |
| 09:46.28 | panicking | So we can move version with the kernel |
| 09:46.29 | panicking | update |
| 09:46.39 | PaulFertser | panicking: because i think he wanted to do it himself, he never asked anybody to do that. |
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| 09:47.17 | PaulFertser | That's the second reason i'm doing nothing waiting. (the first being that i'm partially demotivated lazy ass) |
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| 11:59.38 | RockyM | juego de boxeo online http://www.kobox.org/kobox-fande-Nourine.html |
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| 13:14.10 | Cristianpark1 | Hi guys, I'm playing with icons in desktop applications |
| 13:14.59 | Cristianpark1 | and I have a few questions: there is a way to define the order in wich the apps does appear on desktop? |
| 13:15.18 | Cristianpark1 | in the desktop the icons appear in alfabeticaly order |
| 13:15.44 | Cristianpark1 | how can I make them show in a specific order |
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| 14:26.58 | Cristianpark | anyone there? |
| 14:27.21 | dns53 | there is always someone there, the question is if they answer |
| 14:31.23 | Cristianpark | dns53: Good point. Sometimes you're feeling alone here. And unfortunally the connection to internet in my job is pretty bad so I can't see if people answered my questions, so the IRC log is my best friend |
| 14:32.27 | dns53 | so what's up? got any question? |
| 14:33.49 | Cristianpark | yeah! I'm playing with desktop icons on SHR |
| 14:33.53 | PaulFertser | Cristianpark: you might want to consider running irssi in screen on some more reliable machine. |
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| 14:34.48 | Cristianpark | PaulFertser: Thanks for the advice, in my job there isn't such a thing like a reliable machine hahahaha |
| 14:35.43 | Cristianpark | following with my question, I lost a few icons when change icon theme from SHR to OpenMoko in the appareance menu of SHR |
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| 14:37.23 | dns53 | yes icons are tied to the theme and you loose about half of the icons if you change it |
| 14:37.50 | Cristianpark | I'm seing /usr/share/icons/ and found two directories: SHR and openmoko-standard |
| 14:38.41 | PaulFertser | Cristianpark: you can consider VPS or use your home PC as a reliable machine (as do i). |
| 14:39.49 | dns53 | Cristianpark you could try and merge them, copy the old theme to a directory then copy the new one and replace the theme you want with that copy |
| 14:41.29 | Cristianpark | in SHR I found image files like shr-contacts.png which seems to be referenced by the shr-contacts.desktop file in /usr/share/applications in: Icon=shr-contacts |
| 14:41.47 | Cristianpark | PaulFertser: I didn't know that, thanks |
| 14:42.11 | Cristianpark | dns53: I doesn't understand exactly how to do that |
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| 14:43.17 | dns53 | cp /usr/share/icons/oldtheme tmpdir cp /usr/share/icons/newtheme tmpdir, cp tmpdir /usr/share/icons/newtheme |
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| 14:43.56 | dns53 | so you will have the icons for the old theme where no theme exists |
| 14:44.02 | *** join/#openmoko jpablo (n=chatzill@190.248.129.70) |
| 14:44.09 | dns53 | where no icons in the new theme exists |
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| 14:47.54 | Cristianpark | so the folders inside /usr/share/icons represents each a theme? |
| 14:48.51 | dns53 | yes, it does some mapping of icon name to a file in that directory |
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| 14:50.18 | Cristianpark | dns53: I did what you say and have no effect so far |
| 14:50.32 | Cristianpark | in /usr/share/icons/shr |
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| 14:51.01 | dns53 | change theme between them or restart |
| 14:51.18 | dns53 | it probably caches them on starting illume |
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| 14:53.15 | Cristianpark | there is this structure for the image files 86x86/apps and in /usr/share/icons/openmoko-standard is: openmoko-standard/128x128/apps by example |
| 14:54.31 | Cristianpark | in /usr/share/icons/openmoko-standard there are about 5 directories with different icons resolutions, how can I know what resolution am I using (In appearence menu doesn't appear the option for icon size) |
| 14:55.19 | dns53 | you might be right, you might need to add something to index.theme |
| 14:56.00 | Cristianpark | dns53: I can figure from your answers that if the 128x128 icons are in use, I have to have the .png file for the missing icon in that directory |
| 14:56.18 | Cristianpark | dns53: where is that file (index.theme)? |
| 14:56.50 | Cristianpark | forget it, I found it |
| 14:57.18 | dns53 | it's a freedesktop.org standard so it should be the same everywhere |
| 14:57.30 | dns53 | you can probably just copy a desktop theme to the phone |
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| 15:00.14 | Cristianpark | I doesn't found any usable information on that file, I'll upload a copy of the one I found on /usr/share/icons/openmoko-standard |
| 15:01.45 | Cristianpark | http://pastebin.com/d44f534f9 |
| 15:02.32 | Cristianpark | maybe in another configuration file of SHR where it says that "OpenMoko" is the Selected Theme Icon |
| 15:03.32 | dns53 | so i think the name of the icon in the .desktop file matches to a name in that file that will then load the appropriate image for that size |
| 15:04.06 | Cristianpark | dns53: Yes, I agree with you |
| 15:05.14 | Cristianpark | I think that the Icon section in .desktop file have to match with a image file in the appropiate icon size directory |
| 15:05.55 | dns53 | we probably have to merge the index.theme files |
| 15:06.38 | Cristianpark | i.e: If 128x128 is "selected" (how to determine this?) you have to have a shr-contacts.png file in that directory (128x128) in openmoko-standard in order to have shr-contacts icon on desktop |
| 15:07.11 | dns53 | go to the illume settings and there are icon sizes |
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| 15:12.22 | Cristianpark | dns53: on what section? I only find Icon Theme on appareance section and there i only can select from SHR or Openmoko themes |
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| 15:15.12 | Cristianpark | dns53: do you mean by GUI or some illume setting file? |
| 15:15.50 | dns53 | the illume gui, that has icon sizes |
| 15:17.54 | dns53 | at a guess you need the directories that the icons are in and an [size/name] section with a Context=name section |
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| 15:29.54 | Cristianpark | dns53: I'm can't find icons size con Illume appearence menu :S and barely understand the last thing you said |
| 15:31.05 | dns53 | ok bring up the illume settings, it's the spanner icon in the top shelf |
| 15:31.20 | dns53 | select the launcher entry |
| 15:31.54 | dns53 | select the icon size, 128x128 is massive i think |
| 15:40.58 | Cristianpark | Illume crashed......I'll reboot and tell you have happened |
| 15:43.09 | Cristianpark | *what have happened |
| 15:43.23 | Cristianpark | if I can find the size of the icons |
| 15:49.38 | Cristianpark | dns53: I understand you now, I see the size selected is large |
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| 15:50.33 | Cristianpark | I'll search the matching directory and trying copy a .png file from /usr/shrare/icons/shr to see if it works |
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| 16:04.46 | dns53 | Cristianpark probably bed time for me, goodluck |
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| 16:07.24 | Cristianpark | dns53: Thank you so much....have some rest is always good |
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| 16:13.21 | rhkfin | Hi! I run ssh -X but the app will not start on my laptop but on freerunner. $DISPLAY says localhost:0 |
| 16:14.33 | lindi- | rhkfin: DISPLAY=localhost:0 indeed tells the application to connect to X server at localhost (your phone) |
| 16:14.59 | lindi- | rhkfin: what's setting it to localhost:0? |
| 16:15.01 | rhkfin | lindi-: hmm so that's the default.. What do I need to put to get it on the laptop? |
| 16:15.10 | rhkfin | lindi-: SHR..? |
| 16:15.22 | lindi- | rhkfin: that's certainly not the default in any real distro(tm) :) |
| 16:15.31 | rhkfin | lindi-: gotta agree... |
| 16:15.39 | lindi- | rhkfin: probably shr has some bashrc that sets this |
| 16:15.46 | rhkfin | let's see.. |
| 16:15.54 | lindi- | rhkfin: just grep -r DISPLAY /etc to find it |
| 16:16.21 | rhkfin | /etc/profile does it |
| 16:17.20 | Cristianpark | All: the icons missing thing was resolved putting i.e /usr/share/icons/shr/86x86/shr-contacts.png on /usr/share/icons/openmoko-standard/32x32/apps |
| 16:17.40 | Cristianpark | remember that I have "Large" on Launcher size on Illume settings |
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| 16:21.04 | rhkfin | lindi-: ys, it works now, thanks |
| 16:27.57 | Cristianpark | rhkfin: You comment a line in /etc/profile? or how did you make it? |
| 16:29.53 | rhkfin_mobile | Cristianpark: commented the export DISPLAY -line by adding # in the beginning (and re-login to load the profile again) |
| 16:31.15 | Cristianpark | rhkfin_mobile: thanks, it's very useful tip |
| 16:31.38 | rhkfin_mobile | Cristianpark: indeed.. |
| 16:32.01 | rhkfin_mobile | You can also apply it per command by adding DISPLAY=:10 in front of the command |
| 16:32.09 | rhkfin_mobile | like DISPLAY=:0 vala-terminal |
| 16:33.58 | rhkfin_mobile | Cristianpark: I mean DISPLAY=:10 |
| 16:35.02 | Cristianpark | rhkfin_mobile: Great!....Thanks. There is a 'tips' section on the wiki? or is this tip somewhere on the wiki? as I said, it is very useful |
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| 16:38.46 | rhkfin_mobile | Cristianpark: no idea. Can't add it now, feel free to do it. I think SHR manual would be the place |
| 16:40.42 | Cristianpark | rhkfin_mobile: I'll search for it and if it's not there put it (with the credits to you offcourse) |
| 16:41.36 | rhkfin_mobile | Cristianpark: na, don't put my name there, I was helped by other people. I's a community effort. |
| 16:42.39 | Cristianpark | rhkfin_mobile: ok |
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| 16:49.53 | rhkfin_mobile | Anyone willing to help me to share internet to laptop (kubuntu karmic netook) from shr-u? |
| 16:51.16 | rhkfin_mobile | over usb |
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| 16:52.49 | eolson | rhkfin, months ago, the firewall.sh script on the wiki let me tether my gprs to my ubuntu laptop. I don't know if there' something more recent. |
| 16:54.04 | eolson | rhkfin_mobile, this page has the info: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Tethering |
| 16:54.54 | rhkfin_mobile | eolson: I run midori over ssh on my laptop, freerunner is connected over gprs to internet :) But I'll check.. |
| 16:56.49 | eolson | the firewall.sh script is about 20 lines or so near the bottom of that page. |
| 16:57.53 | rhkfin_mobile | let's see.. |
| 16:59.12 | eolson | The page also says the freerunner needs some packages installed. It's probably not too easy to do those over gprs. |
| 16:59.32 | rhkfin_mobile | hmm.. ok.. |
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| 17:05.37 | PBeck | hi |
| 17:07.26 | Cristianpark | Hi |
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| 17:08.05 | rhkfin_mobile | eolson: installed packages, ran firewall.sh, edied /etc/resolv.conf on laptop, no ping yet.. |
| 17:09.20 | eolson | does ping work from the freerunner? |
| 17:09.35 | rhkfin_mobile | eolson: it does, I use it to irc at the moment :) |
| 17:10.50 | eolson | You probably need a route setup from your laptop. "route -n" on your laptop will list the routes |
| 17:11.58 | rhkfin_mobile | on desktop (kde network GUI:) ip 192.168.0.200, subnet 255.255.255.0, gw 192.168.0.200, dns 192.168.0.202. I'll unplug&plug in the usb to make sure the lates settings is loaded.. |
| 17:12.11 | eolson | I found my notes. I had to run this on my laptop after running firewall.sh: |
| 17:12.11 | eolson | sudo route add default gw 192.168.0.202 |
| 17:12.20 | rhkfin_mobile | Destination Gateway Genmask Flags Metric Ref Use Iface |
| 17:12.20 | rhkfin_mobile | 192.168.0.0 0.0.0.0 255.255.255.0 U 1 0 0 eth2 |
| 17:12.23 | rhkfin_mobile | 169.254.0.0 0.0.0.0 255.255.0.0 U 1000 0 0 eth2 |
| 17:15.53 | eolson | and then if you run anything special like use a proxy on the freerunner, you'll have to do that on the laptop. For example, I have to set a proxy on my neo to use a browser, so I had to add that to my laptop, too. |
| 17:16.11 | rhkfin_mobile | no I use the default shr-u.. |
| 17:16.24 | eolson | ok, that's good |
| 17:16.48 | eolson | did adding the gw work? ( sudo route add default gw 192.168.0.202 ) |
| 17:17.00 | rhkfin_mobile | ok, route -n shows the correct route |
| 17:17.06 | rhkfin_mobile | (ran the sudo route add..) |
| 17:17.31 | rhkfin_mobile | ah, resolv.conf is empty again. |
| 17:17.57 | rhkfin_mobile | hmm, still no.. |
| 17:18.52 | eolson | before running firewall.sh, did you run: opkg install iptables iptables-utils kernel-module-ipt-masquerade kernel-module-iptable-nat ? |
| 17:19.19 | rhkfin_mobile | I did, yes |
| 17:19.30 | rhkfin_mobile | It was of decent size also over gprs.. |
| 17:19.58 | eolson | You could run "tracepath google.com" or something similar to see how far it's getting |
| 17:20.23 | eolson | (from the laptop) |
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| 17:23.21 | rhkfin_mobile | the DNSdoesnät work.. |
| 17:23.24 | rhkfin_mobile | does not |
| 17:24.12 | uraz | hi my phones usb connector broke last week, and i just soldered it back, it seems to work (battery charges) but my computer does not recognize it (with usb networking) |
| 17:24.36 | uraz | i get this error: The IOUSBFamily was not able to enumerate a device |
| 17:24.45 | rhkfin_mobile | eolson: yes, I can ping on IP on the laptop, that's a start :) |
| 17:24.55 | uraz | i get the same "enumerate" on multiple computers |
| 17:25.00 | rhkfin_mobile | Now now do I make FR pass on the DNS requests.. |
| 17:25.24 | uraz | could this be related to one of the pins not being properl y soldered? |
| 17:25.32 | ndnihil | uraz: sure there's no shorts or cold joints? |
| 17:25.43 | ndnihil | uraz: and did it work before? |
| 17:26.11 | uraz | ndnihil: there could be on one of the usb pins, my solder is too big to fit in one of the corners |
| 17:26.22 | uraz | yes it worked prior to the usbconnector breaking off |
| 17:26.50 | uraz | the battery gets charged though |
| 17:27.27 | uraz | so its not completly broken, just usbnetworking does not work which is enough of a reason to open it up again, i think it might have happend when i clipped it back into place |
| 17:28.04 | rhkfin_mobile | eolson: ha, I added the resolv.conf entries from FR to laptop - and it looks like it's working. NOT BAD!!! |
| 17:28.11 | rhkfin_mobile | Now I only need to automatize this :) |
| 17:28.47 | eolson | nice! congrats! |
| 17:28.53 | uraz | rhkfin_mobile: check out the networking scripts on the wiki |
| 17:29.28 | rhkfin_mobile | uraz: let's see, I added the operator dns servers to kde.. |
| 17:29.50 | rhkfin_mobile | If that works, then I think I only need to run firewall.sh on FR to make it all happen.. |
| 17:30.26 | uraz | i dont want to open up my moko again and solder it :( |
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| 17:44.40 | rhkfin_mobile | eolson: ok, I now got scripts both on laptop & freerunner that should let me connect. Awesome, thanks!! |
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| 17:54.53 | CIA-44 | freesmartphone.org: 03mok 07libframeworkd-glib * r0b7a203a7f7c 10/src/ (5 files in 2 dirs): |
| 17:54.53 | CIA-44 | freesmartphone.org: add handler for org.freesmartphone.Usage.ResourceAvailable signal |
| 17:54.53 | CIA-44 | freesmartphone.org: Signed-off-by: Klaus Kurzmann <mok@fluxnetz.de> |
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| 17:57.07 | eolson | rhkfin, no problem, glad it works :) |
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| 18:43.23 | *** topic/#openmoko by Cut-R -> BANDES DE PEDOPHILES VIOLEURS MANIPULATEURS MENTEURS FILS DE PUTES ENCULÉS TROUS DU CUL MAGOUILLEURS ABUSEURS D'ENFANTS !!! |
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| 18:48.43 | *** topic/#openmoko by starox -> The best phone ever |
| 18:48.57 | starox | Fucj Cut-R |
| 18:52.16 | *** join/#openmoko emacsian (n=emacsian@122.167.76.151) |
| 18:53.31 | *** topic/#openmoko by SpeedEvil -> Users of Openmoko Hardware | Developers, please join #openmoko-cdevel | New Users read http://wiki.openmoko.org | Before asking read http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html | make sure to check http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Om_2009 | Recommended SHR: http://shr.bearstech.com/shr-unstable/images/om-gta02/shr-*--20090808-om-gta02.rootfs.* |
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| 19:07.47 | Blu3 | has something changed with the shr-u repos in the last few weeks? i've seen zero updates except for one fsousaged update which has a missing glib dependency so it won't update |
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| 20:20.18 | dos1 | Blu3: no, nothing changed recently |
| 20:20.38 | Blu3 | so no software packages have been updated in 3+ weeks? |
| 20:20.47 | dos1 | 3 weeks? |
| 20:20.59 | Blu3 | yes |
| 20:21.01 | dos1 | time goes fast ;x |
| 20:21.06 | Blu3 | :) |
| 20:21.17 | dos1 | i thought it was less amount of time ;) |
| 20:21.27 | dos1 | but yes, there were no changes |
| 20:21.38 | Blu3 | my last update was done three weeks ago and there were maybe a dozen packages needing updated |
| 20:21.56 | dos1 | as syncing feed would put X.org to it |
| 20:22.18 | dos1 | and dunno how broken it is atm. i hope it'll be finished soon ;) |
| 20:22.52 | Blu3 | fsousaged is the only outstanding pkg needing an update but it wants libfso-glib0-0.2.1-gitr047... which is non-existent |
| 20:23.11 | max_posedon | Blu3, try install via direct link |
| 20:23.21 | max_posedon | at least I did so |
| 20:23.31 | Blu3 | i don't know where the direct url is since that file isn't in the repo :) |
| 20:23.51 | max_posedon | its in repo, but not in feeds |
| 20:24.30 | Blu3 | i last browsed about four days ago and couldn't find it |
| 20:26.45 | max_posedon | http://build.shr-project.org/shr-unstable/ipk/armv4t/libfso-glib0_0.2.1+gitr47+7608c8d98bb65bb5beca6621eb86920b71df1bc9-r0_armv4t.ipk |
| 20:26.54 | max_posedon | ha, now I understand |
| 20:26.58 | max_posedon | + instead - |
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| 20:28.46 | Blu3 | that was my typo. it is: |
| 20:28.47 | Blu3 | ERROR: Cannot satisfy the following dependencies for fsousaged: |
| 20:28.48 | Blu3 | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:29.58 | Blu3 | it's d/l now |
| 20:30.18 | max_posedon | so, you have exactly my issue |
| 20:30.35 | max_posedon | and direct opkg install <link> will help you same as me |
| 20:30.49 | Blu3 | *nod* i'm waiting on it to do that |
| 20:32.26 | Blu3 | hmm. now that iphone does mms, i have to get to work on my sms app and finish at least rudimentary mms support |
| 20:32.40 | Blu3 | everyone is sending me mms's now |
| 20:33.23 | max_posedon | mms is just wap + sms as I know |
| 20:33.46 | max_posedon | doesn't it? |
| 20:34.03 | Blu3 | with rich content |
| 20:34.31 | Blu3 | markup, images, compressed content, etc |
| 20:34.46 | Blu3 | and it can obviously be mucho bigger than 140bytes :) |
| 20:34.59 | max_posedon | I mean |
| 20:35.33 | max_posedon | when you receiving mms, you receiving sms or ussd with wap-link |
| 20:35.37 | Blu3 | mms is; you get an SMS message with a URL in it. you fetch that URL via your WAP proxy then render the content |
| 20:36.02 | Blu3 | yes. all sms afaik. none ussd that i've seen |
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| 20:36.39 | max_posedon | so, mms is marketing bulshit, people can use normal internet instead |
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| 20:37.59 | Blu3 | not quite following your correlation. sms is limited to 140 bytes (160 7bit chars) |
| 20:38.02 | Blu3 | mms is not limited |
| 20:38.43 | Blu3 | so to deliver any content larger than 140 bytes, instead of spreading it over numerous sms messages, you send an sms with a url in it for the phone to fetch |
| 20:38.55 | Blu3 | it's far more efficient than using sms |
| 20:39.12 | max_posedon | I mean, people just should use internet(gprs?) + im(jabber?) and similar services |
| 20:39.43 | Blu3 | the internet (gprs or better) is certainly required |
| 20:39.50 | max_posedon | ok, anyway, have to buy some food) |
| 20:40.38 | Blu3 | IM? IM isn't for sending rich content like pictures. IM uses a URL to fetch large contents just like SMS |
| 20:41.43 | mjr | using sms for arrival notification does enable you to sleep more effectively and still get your messages |
| 20:42.38 | mjr | personally I find them rather useless though, I don't need overly synchronous "rich content" communications |
| 20:42.40 | PaulFertser | Blu3: cellphone is not for exchanging "rich content" anyway |
| 20:43.15 | Blu3 | well, millions of people have disregarded your opinion and send pictures, documents, and video with their cellphones |
| 20:43.45 | PaulFertser | Blu3: millions of people are using windows operating system and listen to britney spears. |
| 20:43.56 | Blu3 | the world of openmoko plain text messages shall remain a small circle |
| 20:44.23 | Blu3 | not everyone shares your opinion that a cellphone should be incapable of rich content |
| 20:45.09 | Blu3 | why do we have a GUI when it should be a vi interface to send AT commands on the modem? |
| 20:45.15 | PaulFertser | Blu3: well, i just don't think that sms is a good media to deliver notifications like those. |
| 20:45.28 | Blu3 | what media would you use? |
| 20:45.49 | PaulFertser | Blu3: in fact i think that currently only emacs can provide real integration and conveniency for smartphone users. I tried it on FR and it rocks. |
| 20:46.28 | mjr | Blu3, certainly many do use them, but I rather think you're succumbing to exaggaration on the other end |
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| 20:46.53 | Blu3 | you have to notify the user that they have a rich content message, how else are you going to do so? |
| 20:47.04 | mjr | I don't think the people using predominantly text messages are a "small circle" by far |
| 20:47.08 | PaulFertser | Blu3: (media) why not jabber? It can send small documents just fine. And you can always pass a link to a bigger one. And while the phone is sleeping it can wake up on incoming gprs traffic just fine. |
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| 20:47.39 | Blu3 | jabber is much less efficient than pushing an SMS message to a phone and the phone fetching the content from the URL |
| 20:47.58 | PaulFertser | Blu3: how is that? Traffic? |
| 20:48.33 | Blu3 | where are you going to put a jabber server between two cellphones? |
| 20:49.06 | PaulFertser | Blu3: there's plenty of those in the internet already, i don't get what you're after. |
| 20:49.09 | Blu3 | none of the cellular providers run jabber servers afaik |
| 20:49.49 | PaulFertser | Blu3: jabber.org is ok. And btw the desire of most sane cellphone user is to make themselves less dependent on provider, not more. |
| 20:49.51 | Blu3 | mms doesn't require any external servers from the cellular network |
| 20:50.15 | PaulFertser | Blu3: so how does it prove it's any better? |
| 20:50.27 | Blu3 | i'm not going to argue this |
| 20:50.41 | Blu3 | you guys can be as anti mms as you want, it's not going to change the rest of the world |
| 20:51.34 | PaulFertser | Blu3: oh, pity :( I hoped to hear some more arguments. You seem to be smart enough to explain some appropriate reasoning to us "anti-mms" guys. |
| 20:51.57 | PaulFertser | Blu3: fyi i'm arguing for the sake of knowning more, not to troll or something. |
| 20:52.01 | Blu3 | i'm not going to argue why we should add more dependencies to a simple protocol |
| 20:52.37 | Blu3 | i'm not going to argue why people like sending pictures around with no other requirement than knowing a phone number |
| 20:54.41 | Blu3 | the majority of fso/openmoko* is anti-mms. ok. if you don't like it, don't use it. other people do like it and they do use it. but you guys are snide and derogatory when the subject comes up |
| 20:54.57 | PaulFertser | Blu3: :( it'd be interesting if you were... AFAIK mms is overpriced and not _that_ simple. And is not compatible with any other equipment over there. It works using tcp/ip network but doesn't use any of the established standards. So you can't easily exchange mms with an internet-connected laptop e.g. |
| 20:56.23 | Blu3 | i think you're misinformed. sms doesn't work 1:1 with a laptop either. both require gateways. cellphone use of <x> is often done through a gateway because the gateway makes the gw<->phone bitwise traffic much smaller |
| 20:56.43 | Blu3 | that providers ass rape you for any given service is beside the point |
| 20:56.46 | slaxxer | Slackware being the fastest linux an the simplest,,, makes me wonder why theres not an install of slack yet |
| 20:57.09 | ndnihil | how do you figure slackware is the "fastest"? |
| 20:57.25 | slaxxer | its a known fact |
| 20:57.30 | Blu3 | i can send email messages <with rich content> from my desktop/laptop to my phone and back again. the gateway does the munging |
| 20:57.44 | ndnihil | known by who, and how did they come to that conclusion? |
| 20:57.53 | slaxxer | it will run on a 100mhz pentium |
| 20:58.10 | ndnihil | so will any other dist with the same kernel and GNU environment |
| 20:58.13 | Blu3 | MMS is pretty simple and the underlaying protocol is basic http with most headers stripped out |
| 20:58.18 | slaxxer | proly a 50 mhz pentium |
| 20:58.25 | Blu3 | slaxxer, that's silliness |
| 20:58.30 | slaxxer | not |
| 20:58.38 | Blu3 | a kernel is a kernel is a kernel. it doesn't matter which distro it's on |
| 20:58.48 | ndnihil | 15:58 < Blu3> a kernel is a kernel is a kernel. it doesn't matter which distro |
| 20:58.51 | ndnihil | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:58.53 | ndnihil | quoted for truth ^ |
| 20:59.13 | Blu3 | saying "distro x" is faster than "distro y" means you have very little grasp of the mechanics inside the kernel and the daemons running |
| 21:00.10 | Blu3 | the difference between distributions is largely in the daemons they choose for default and the branding of the desktop, and last, the layout of the files |
| 21:00.36 | slaxxer | so thats why ubuntu is so slow? |
| 21:01.05 | ndnihil | oh dear |
| 21:01.13 | mjr | Blu3, well, FWIW, it'd be good if someone implemented MMS for FSO or whatever. I don't care, but interop with existing systems generally is a good thing... |
| 21:01.17 | Blu3 | if distro X has a daemon D which is bytewise exact for distro Y, then it will take exactly the same number of cpu cycles to accomplish something |
| 21:01.19 | ndnihil | I'd rather argue about MMS :) |
| 21:01.41 | Blu3 | slaxxer i suggest you profile it and see where the differences are |
| 21:01.43 | mjr | (just to point out not all of us are "anti-mms" |
| 21:02.11 | Blu3 | mjr, i'm doing so in my sms program but i've had zilch time since about may |
| 21:04.06 | ndnihil | I'd totally like to see OM/FSO/SHR be MMS capable |
| 21:04.50 | ndnihil | how else are chick supposed to send you boob shots from their phones? |
| 21:04.50 | ndnihil | s/chick/chicks/ |
| 21:05.01 | Blu3 | as would i. i'm probably the biggest proponent. i just haven't had time to fix the fso bug (if it still exists) and do the rendering |
| 21:05.12 | Blu3 | prefers not seeing boob shots |
| 21:05.15 | Ainulindale | ndnihil: that is to receive ads from KFC? |
| 21:05.24 | ndnihil | I don't get ads at all |
| 21:05.35 | Ainulindale | ndnihil: (sorry bad pun :-) ) |
| 21:05.36 | ndnihil | but then, I don't sign up for stupid shit with my phone |
| 21:05.47 | ndnihil | ah |
| 21:06.00 | Blu3 | that would be godaddy ads i think |
| 21:14.07 | PaulFertser | Blu3: who said i like SMS or even GSM voice features? I'd prefer to have fast and cheap 3G and sip over it of course. |
| 21:14.30 | Blu3 | 4g |
| 21:14.56 | PaulFertser | Blu3: ah, so there're additional MMS gateways. _additional_ while usual e-mail or IM works with what already exists. |
| 21:15.30 | PaulFertser | Blu3: btw, here in Moscow we have a decent coverage of WiMax. |
| 21:16.06 | PaulFertser | So yes, i'd prefer everybody to use sip and jabber for the sake of interoperability of everything with everything. |
| 21:16.29 | Blu3 | every msc has gateways to level the load |
| 21:18.02 | Blu3 | the design of logical units is to simplify the representation of physical units in a cellular network. packets from one phone can travel through hundreds or thousands of distinct devices before reaching their destination |
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| 21:18.47 | Blu3 | america won't get decent coverage of wimax without charging customers another ass raping |
| 21:19.12 | Blu3 | american corps are the most greedy in the world in my opinion |
| 21:25.45 | PaulFertser | Blu3: you know i dreamed of visiting CA for quite some time |
| 21:28.00 | SpeedEvil | If you don't have the ass-raping, it doesn't work. |
| 21:28.14 | SpeedEvil | Bandwidth is sharply finite - over the air bandwidth. |
| 21:28.41 | SpeedEvil | It's got to be priced and managed so that it doesn't get bogged into uselessness. |
| 21:32.08 | PaulFertser | Blu3: and now i don't because not only us corps are greedy but us people (almost the majority of) are evil enough to force all foreigners to go through fingerprinting scanning which i find highly inappropriate. |
| 21:36.33 | Blu3 | i'm firmly against the fingerprint scanning as well |
| 21:38.05 | PaulFertser | Blu3: i don't have any doubts about that. My remark was rather a general rant, not directly applicable to you. |
| 21:38.12 | Blu3 | i know |
| 21:38.37 | PaulFertser | Just to make it clear. Because i have a tendency to make everything unclear ;) Or whatever. :D |
| 21:39.02 | Blu3 | =] |
| 21:39.25 | Blu3 | my responses are lagged. i'm preoccupied with pulling my upper intake apart to clean it |
| 21:41.37 | PaulFertser | Blu3: cleaning intake? I thought usually people only change air filters. |
| 21:42.55 | Blu3 | my engine is overbored and fitted poorly with pistons. lots of oil gets sucked back up into the intake via the egr valve and along with it exhaust smoke which naturally is heavily sooted. so it plugs up pretty bad every ~6mo |
| 21:43.03 | Blu3 | makes it run horrible |
| 21:43.50 | PaulFertser | Blu3: i see. It's great to meet DIYers here, btw :) |
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| 21:45.08 | Blu3 | yeah :) |
| 21:45.34 | Blu3 | i do everything unless i require a tool/machine that costs $$$$ or i don't feel like handling the hazmat waste (change oil) |
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